Cavaliers at Atlanta Hawks: Game thread
C-Viv reporting from Philips Arena.
Hawks coach Larry Drew did not use the word “quit” again to describe the Hawks’ performance Friday night at the 76ers. However, the coach did not back off his post-game comments.
Drew would not single any particular player out. He also said he has not address the team following his post-game comments.
Here are some quotes from Drew during his pre-game interview:
“I’m not going to call out any names. It got a little tough and we didn’t respond. We did not respond.”
“Yes [he stands by his post-game comments], I went back and watched it. We had a good first half. They made a run in the third quarter and, as stated, we didn’t respond to it, which is very disappointing. I’ve made statements in the past, I really thought we had turned that corner a little bit in that situation. Teams are going to make runs. Good teams are going to make runs. Philadelphia is a really good team. They played very well. We talked about it at halftime, that that team was going to make a run. We couldn’t fold the tent when they did. We had to mentally be strong and push our way through it when they did. That was not the response we got when they made the run.”
“What I said last night after the game is done. It’s time to move on.”
“Shot selection [was the reason for the poor second half]. Bad shot selection against a team as good as Philadelphia. Bad shot selection is just as good as turnovers. That’s what gets the team going… For a half we played and followed our game plan. Then we came out in the third quarter and completely lost focus of what got us the lead in the first half.”
“Certainly having a key guy like Al [Horford] that can bring some stability in a situation like that. He’s been the type of guy that would get guys to settle down and was vocal in the huddles. Those are the type of situations where you can use a guy like that because his presence along, being on the floor and being in the huddle, is definitely felt.”
“I think it’s everybody’s responsibility, mine included, when you get in those situations you have to be very aware of the flow of the game. Players on the floor have to be aware of the situation. Certainly our guys felt the momentum shift in that third quarter yesterday. And yet, we continue to be seduced into taking ill-advised shots. I just thought we had turned the corner from that. That was the disappointing part. We will bounce back from it. It’s not the end of the world. It’s not a situation where we are going to cave in. We are going to learn from last night’s game and we are going to continue to try to get better and better.”
Here are a couple comments from Jerry Stackhouse, the 16-year NBA veteran:
“Hopefully we respond positively. It’s one game. In a long NBA season you are going to have nights like that. But it was a little disappointing to see with almost four minutes left in the game, a 12-point game, we called off the dogs so to speak. But I guess from being around this group [coach Larry Drew] sensed something he’s seen before. Hopefully we can get past that. We’ve talked about growth a lot with this group. Maybe the message after the game and the fact we have a game right back today, we can come back and make amends for not finishing the game the way we should have.”
“It’s on the individual. When you are dealing with a team you’ve got to know which players to push and which players to coddle. The guys that need coddling might be affected differently. We hope not. Hopefully everybody looks at it for what it was. I think his comments were spot on. Now it’s just a matter of responding. More so than what he said last night, he’s looking for a response. Hopefully we can give the proper response tonight.”
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488 comments Add your comment
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
12:03 pm
Al’s return will hurt the team more than help. He will have to relearn that arm and deal with the swelling and shortened range and motion which will surely affect his game, which is average at best. His foot work and timing will also be off. Did I mention his game strength will be an issue as well.
Al is a long term project that may, or may not ever get back to the 12/8 guy. I dont think you guys understand the injury Al has/had, or the process of internal healing.
Quite simply the old Al may never be back.
Time to burst a serious move.
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
12:06 pm
Nice post
The Paterno Question
January 23rd, 2012
11:29 am
Praying
“God, Do I save my life and legacy by looking the other way, while these children are raped and sodomized by homosexuality or do I ignore my life’s work and do all I can to save these your children? It is a very difficult question for me and my soul is on fire, yes lord my soul is at stack, its torn between the soul of the children or my love for my career and university, please let me hear your council and I will decide what I shall do…”
I understand your challenge and surely these are the times that try men souls. It is that day that I have called you to answer so be careful what you choose.
Mark 35- 38 KJV
“For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Luke 9:23-25
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
KJV
Matt 10:37-39
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
KJV
Now, Joe Paterno, you decide what you shall do with your soul.
SteveW
January 23rd, 2012
12:23 pm
What’s up with Al and 12 and 8? When has Al ever averaged 12 and 8?
Not including the game he was injured in, where he only played 5 minutes, Al was averaging:
13.1 and 7.5, not 12 and 8.
His last 6 games before he was injured he averaged 14.2 and 8.3 as he was coming into form, and trying to play closer to the basket.
Last season he averaged 15.3 and 9.4. He has never averaged less than 9.3 rebounds per game in a season.
His career averages are 12.8 and 9.5.
Where does 12 and 8 come from? Even his post season averages are 11.5 and 8.7. And wasn’t he hurt in his second season during the playoffs? Because besides that second season where his playing time was down in the postseason, he’s averaged 12.6 and 10.4, 14.6 and 9.0, and 11.3 and 9.6.
So where does 12 and 8 come from? Figures don’t lie, but liars can figure. I mean if your a Josh supporter, somebody shouldn’t just skew the stats and emphasize Josh has only shot 42.6% in the postseason, and 15.9% from 3 point range, or that he only shot 40.9% in the postseason last year, and 12.5% from three point range, while Al shot 46.5% in the postseason.
At least tell the truth, and not just part of the picture. As much as this blog complains, I’m just glad we have both Josh and Al, 2 of the top 43 players in the League according to ESPN. I like them both – ain’t gotta diss the one to make the other shine – just be a Hawks fan – much easier.
SteveW
January 23rd, 2012
12:32 pm
Joe Mama – I agree about Al, you never know if and when the old Al comes back after that injury. But the only serious move i see us making, if any, besides a Hinrich for Boris Diaw or something, is us thinking we can’t sign Josh in Free Agency, and trading he and Hinrich or Marvin for Gasol.
But we may just try to limp thru the season and do nothing, you never know we this bunch.
SteveW
January 23rd, 2012
12:34 pm
I know the Lakers would love to steal Josh from us – a 31 year old Gasol who looks to be fading, for a 26 year old Josh, who looks to be improving.
Gasol is good however, I just don’t see how he’s a difference maker to get us to a championship, if you have to give up alot to obtain him..
Sautee
January 23rd, 2012
12:35 pm
“I like them both – ain’t gotta diss the one to make the other shine – just be a Hawks fan – much easier.”
Co-sign
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
12:50 pm
? not that 13 pts is much better but I dont take the average of when Al had a good week and played against 3 teams with no center and calculate that to say Al is a 13pt a game center. I judge Al by his over all production and his career average has Al with 12pts and 8 rebounds. He like all players has some good days and bad days, good seasons and bad season.
I dont throw out the bad days or seasons to calculate only the good ones. Over al and by the nba career numbers Al is 12 pt 8 rb 1 blk 2 to 1 blk/a guy. Day in day out that what you get from Al.
Who are you calling a liar? NBA.com or the man you see in the mirror?
Can Al stand on his own merit? Why must Al defenders Al ways use Josh to validate Al? Let Al stand on his own merits or lack of them.
Actually last year Al was 12pts and 7rbs
2011-12 Statistics
PPG
12.4
RPG
7.00
APG
2.2
Born: Jun 3, 1986
Height: 6-10 / 2.08
Weight: 250 lbs. / 113.4 kg.
College: Florida
Years Pro: 4
Career?
12pts
9rbs
Play offs? worse
11pts
8 rbs
Now I know to you Al fans those are just incredible numbers.
but to me. It explains why we cant get out of the second round. If you average is career numbers with his most recent season and his play off average, you get a pretty good impression of what you will get from Al
12 pts
8 rbs.
Astro Joe
January 23rd, 2012
12:55 pm
Since when does a single injury result in someone being “injury prone”?
I remember a few years ago someone suggested that trading Josh for Dirk would be foolish. Of course, that was before anyone thought Dirk could deliver a title without another superstar by his side.
Steve, I’m not sure if the T’wolves are under the cap… it seems like trading Hinrich’s $8 for Miller’s $4.7M wouldn’t work unless they do have cap room. That’s why I was previously adding a filler from us and Ridnour from them. But no way in the world would I trade a 1st round pick for Miller. He hasn’t been effective in 2 seasons. I only brought him up because Sund showed interest previously and he could easily fit into the same offensive schemes that employed Horford. But he is not likely worth a 1st round pick.
OB, I support adding a big, just saying that we need a big who can actually get on the court. If any of those guys were 2-3 weeks away, don’t you think they would have been signed by the 20+ teams who desperately need big man depth?
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
12:57 pm
last season 12/7
career 12./9
playoffs 11/8
Als totals 35/24
————————–
Al average 11.6/ 8
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
12:59 pm
Yea I too remember that playoffs where Al ripped his ankle out of socket and was lost for the playoffs. Another let down. I agree Al need to learn to play healthy and not get injured so much.
Rufus1
January 23rd, 2012
1:07 pm
Al Horford stats…
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01.html
To use the 12 or 13 games from this year is unfair to his career average…
last year he averaged 15.3pts and 9.3rebs
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
1:09 pm
So I guess the question should be framed, ” can josh win a championship with out a superstar at his side?”
I dont think so. but I can say this team isnt playing better with out Al because it is and and the spirit of this team now wants to fight and win more so than fight each other in the locker room for who gets to play what position.
I think along with Josh, and JJ, you will need to add 1 more to our very own big 3. and by necessity that 3rd needs to be a center to optimized the in/out game and give us the needed interior defense.
We dont need another “big” we need a center.
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
1:11 pm
why lie Rufus?
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_horford/career_stats.html
PLAYERS
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Al Horford
#15
Center-Forward
E-mail photo | Buy photos
2011-12 Statistics
PPG
12.4
RPG
7.00
APG
2.2
Born: Jun 3, 1986
Height: 6-10 / 2.08
Weight: 250 lbs. / 113.4 kg.
College: Florida
Years Pro: 4
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
1:14 pm
*but I cant say this team isnt playing better with out Al because it is
drmaryeb.[*_*].
January 23rd, 2012
1:17 pm
The Center of Attention!
“In a perfect world, one of the older centers would be fit enough that we could just plug them in and wouldn’t have to be concerned with contract lengths of players going out and comng in” -Astro Joe-
____________
This comment reminds me of what the MJ Bulls did with Bill Cartwright on the baseline. All he did was mainly rebound and defend and hit that ugly baseline, indefensible, fade away jumper from 7 feet. Of course, Rodman was doing his HOF thang too.
Here’s my point: MJ was surrounded by some hella role players who stayed in their “place” at all times. What a terrific coach they had in defining roles and matching/mixing parts.
We don’t have a GM capable of that. Larry Drew is coaching his butt off and should be extended, why not? just give him some groceries, he can cook.
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
1:20 pm
Larry Drew is a fart and has already cost us 3 games this year
O'Brien
January 23rd, 2012
1:25 pm
AJ,
I think Minny is under the cap, and Miller’s contract for next year is a team option. .
Ra'mon
January 23rd, 2012
1:25 pm
DMB, remember Cartwright and Rodman didn’t play together. So MJ first won with Grant and Cartwright (neither all stars) as his front court.
O'Brien
January 23rd, 2012
1:26 pm
Long before anyone thought it was possible, Stephen A said the big 3 would join up in Miami. And they did.
Well now, Stephen A is saying The Orlando Magic, I will preface my statement by telling you that they have categorically denied this, but my sources tell me that they have inquired about Tyson Chandler and Amar’e Stoudemire going to Orlando for Dwight Howard. .
I assume it would be Dwight and filler (not sure who NYK would want).
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
1:27 pm
“This comment reminds me of what the MJ Bulls did with Bill Cartwright on the baseline. All he did was mainly rebound and defend and hit that ugly baseline, indefensible, fade away jumper from 7 feet. Of course, Rodman was doing his HOF thang too.”
Thats true.
drmaryeb.[*_*].
January 23rd, 2012
1:27 pm
Bad Boys!
AJ, also … Do you think Ivan can be our Rodman? Just defend and rebound and score when it’s there, of course if we get that seasoned center you mentioned: Ivan can takes Al’s spot at the 4 and keep Josh at the 3. Bring zaza off the bench and Twin for D12 and other slow bigs.
AJ, wouldnt that kee the core in tact till All return and beyond? even with Marvin, we would be super loaded with really good role players and would look like the old Spurs in some ways re: no luxury taxes.
In this scenario, we don’t over-pay for scrub centers. Miller or Prsyzbilla looks good to me. Big butt guys, no more tooth pick PF/C posers please!
Astro Joe
January 23rd, 2012
1:29 pm
The Melo/Amare combination is working out as well as I would expect a D12/Josh combination.
Ra'mon
January 23rd, 2012
1:29 pm
I wonder if Portland would take 2 second round picks for Kurt Thomas. I would keep Kirk, trade 2 2nd round picks for Thomas, and sign Sheed to finish off the bench, after releasing Stack (hiring him on as a special assistant) and cutting Sloan.
Ra'mon
January 23rd, 2012
1:34 pm
Funny how many people forget that Rodman LED the NCAA in scoring for two seasons (similar to Johnson in DLeague).
Astro Joe
January 23rd, 2012
1:35 pm
Mary, I like Ivan A LOT but Rodman is a HOF player and Ivan is a 27 year-old rookie. I think Ivan could develop into a 12-18 minute rotation player who some nights looks like a bonafide starter type and other nights has more fouls & TOs than rebounds. I’m thinking more like a Danny Fortsen type than I am Rodman (but not even as good or consistent as Fortsen).
SteveW
January 23rd, 2012
1:36 pm
Are you sure we’re playing better without Al? We got trounced by two good teams on the road without Al, and beat 3 bad, and 1 good team.
With Al we came within an eyelash of going 4-0 against the Heat and Bulls, and we lost to a mediocre team in Houston.
And Joe Mama – I don’t know where you went to statistics school at man, but as I said, figures don’t lie, but liars can figure. Your doing the math all wrong, including Al’s stats from the game he only played 5 minutes in, not including prior years stats etc.
Al is better than 12 and 8 on a consistent basis, and you know it, give it up man.
But I can’t wrestle with a hog as they say, or I’m gonna get dirty…
Ra'mon
January 23rd, 2012
1:36 pm
I don’t think Melo and D12 go well together, to be honest. And its crazy so many people (Skip Bayless) gives Melo so much props, even though Lebron has done more with less, than Melo ever did. Melo has had Iverson, Billups, K Mart, George Karl, all star center in Nene, and never made it past second round.
drmaryeb.[*_*].
January 23rd, 2012
1:38 pm
Re: Ra’mon
Rodman did’nt play with Luc longley for those first 3 rings did he? I was a rookie fan back then so, i was mouth wide open just watching MJ and Nique back then. So, what center did Rodman play with …?
kinda’ makes my point though, the center wasnt the superstar … the guards were soooo good back then, they dominated in the absence of BIGS.
thanks ra’mon for the correction though. (smile)
SteveW
January 23rd, 2012
1:38 pm
You know in D League, Ivan wasn’t really known for his rebounding, but his offensive game – so I don’t think he and Rodman are comparable.
AJ – I know you wouldn’t give up that for Miller – and you’d be that much further from a championship also. If Miller has anything left in the tank, he plays 20 minutes per night at C as a true C, and moves us closer to winning this thing.
SteveW
January 23rd, 2012
1:41 pm
Ra’mon – I suggested the same trade when Portland was here – but Portland is too thin at C to consider that trade probably.
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
1:41 pm
‘Last season he averaged 15.3 and 9.4. He has never averaged less than 9.3 rebounds per game in a season’.- LMFAO
LAST SEASON AL WAS 12 and 7, ( seems you’ve added 3 pts and 2 boards. LMAO)
Rufus, “last year he averaged 15.3pts and 9.3rebs “puff, puff, inhale, hold….exhale. Puff, puff, inhale, hold… rufus, pass that back to SteveW ‘” hit it again Steve”
doc
January 23rd, 2012
1:42 pm
truth al career at 12.8 and 9.5
in stats class one could legitimately round up to 13 and 10.
reference is here:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4245
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
1:44 pm
Co-sign Ramon
Ra'mon
January 23rd, 2012
1:44 pm
SteveW, Al truly is only a 15 and 9 player. And Al is known to disappear for 4-5 games at a time. With all that being said, he is still the third best player on a 2nd round playoff team.
Astro Joe
January 23rd, 2012
1:44 pm
Steve, when was the last time a guy who hasn’t played significantly in 1.5 NBA seasons suddenly re-emerges as the missing link for a team? That stuff only happens in Hollywood movies. This ain’t “Eddie” and he ain’t John Salley. In real life, you get last year’s Shaq sitting on the Boston bench for most of the season (stealing their money). Or Erick Dampier with the Heat last year. Or Jermaine O’Neal for much of his current contract with the Celtics. If Miller is the same player he has been for the past 1.5 seasons, we get to watch him sit on the bench and watch another team use our 1st round lick in the summer (I think I saw that movie last summer).
Ra'mon
January 23rd, 2012
1:45 pm
Rodman played with the most underrated defensive C in the history of the league, in Luc Longley.
doc
January 23rd, 2012
1:48 pm
here it is in another format to look at the whole of al’s career if you dare to look for truth anyone:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4245/career;_ylt=Aju9r0q6991DJXscdsjfxn6MPaB4
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
1:53 pm
doc thank you. I agree, no argument. If you wanted to round stats up to the next highest level that would no longer be an average. as a whole Al is 12/9 but if you like the sound of 13 and 10 better, well me too, but that not his average. 12 and 9 is. whats behind the decimal if it ain’t 9999.9 irrelevant.
What rounding off really says is ” with a little more effort, this guy could easily be…” I have never seen the “little more effort from Al”
Im not one to add numbers the players havent earned. I dont want to casually toss in a .5 here or a .5 there to make their numbers look better. It is what it is.
But I do see your point.
Ra'mon
January 23rd, 2012
1:53 pm
AJ, Melo and Amare are both weak in the very areas that would cause Josh and Dwight to excel in this league: Defense and Rebounding. Against majority of the teams, the Hawks could run zone with Joe and Teague hawking the ball, and Josh/D12 guarding the rim, and cleaning up misses. Not to mention, LD isn’t Phil Jackson, but he isn’t Mike ‘Antoni (no D’ in his name or game). Also, Melo and Amare have BOTH missed more extended times than Josh and D12 combined.
SteveW
January 23rd, 2012
1:54 pm
D League is stripped bare of Bigs because of the dearth of quality Bigs in the NBA right now. Since Chris Daniels went back to Korea, the two best bigs are Marcus Lewis – 6-8 245 (about the same size as Ivan) has about the same efficiency rating as Ivan and averages 15.6 points and 14.0 rebounds shooting 55.9%.
7-0 265 Jeff Foote – a legit 7-0.25 without shoes, 265, averages 15.1 and 9.0 on 54.7% shooting – but Grandad says he’s garbage, and I trust Grandad on that one. He is young – 24, so he may become a player some day, but probably not right now in the NBA.
O'Brien
January 23rd, 2012
1:57 pm
I know Collins does some things that don’t show up on the stat sheet. But since Al went down, he is averaging 12 minutes, 1 pt, 2 rebs, and 0 blocks per game.
And Rick is ok with the center position as it is? C’Mon Man!
SteveW
January 23rd, 2012
1:57 pm
Joe Mama – You said – “LAST SEASON AL WAS 12 and 7, ( seems you’ve added 3 pts and 2 boards. LMAO) ”
Umm – Joe Mama – lay off the reefer man – that is this seasons stats! – and it’s 12.8 and 7 after a few games, and he was hurt and only played 5 minutes in one of those.
Dude – you’ve left reefer and are into glue or somethin’
O'Brien
January 23rd, 2012
1:58 pm
There might be a blog soon, but this tweet from MC;
•#Hawks G Kirk Hinrich (shoulder) says he’s aiming to return Wed. at Spurs.
I just hope Kirk doesnt come back too early and risk re-injury.
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
1:59 pm
Astro Joe
January 23rd, 2012
1:44 pm
Bullz eye!!
Rufus1
January 23rd, 2012
2:01 pm
Joe Mama
The 12.4pts and 7rebs, are only for the 12 games he has played ****THIS YEAR 2011-2012****…
LAST YEAR 2010-2011, he averaged 15.3pts and 9.3rebs…
PS. I don’t smoke, but I do wear glasses
Astro Joe
January 23rd, 2012
2:02 pm
Ramon, as long as they weren’t both trying to block every shot, they could be good together defensively. History shows us that when two elite shot blockers come together, only one typically maintains their career average as only one is the primary help defender. On offense, they are both better served in the post, sweeping across the lane. And Josh is also super good at drawing the double team and making the nice pass out of the post. I don’t think it would work out much better than what the Knicks are seeing.
Joe Mama
January 23rd, 2012
2:03 pm
Al’s career, pick any link you want.
12.8 9.5
Rufus1
January 23rd, 2012
2:06 pm
Bogut Sucks
SteveW
January 23rd, 2012
2:07 pm
AJ – You said, “Steve, when was the last time a guy who hasn’t played significantly in 1.5 NBA seasons suddenly re-emerges as the missing link for a team?”
Can you say Bill Walton?
Can you say Kurt Thomas this season? Ok, we don’t know if he’s the missing link, but he sure helps them.
TMac wasn’t the missing link for Detroit last season, but he was pretty good.
And how long was Micheal Jordan gone from the Bulls and came back? Did pretty well if I remember correctly.
SteveW
January 23rd, 2012
2:13 pm
Joe Mama – 12.8 and 9.5 is a little different than 12 and 8 isn’t it? And you act like even that is the player he is now, even though he’s improved and averaged 15.3 and 9.3 last season.