Atlanta Hawks: What should they do now (poll)?
Al Horford had surgery today and let’s go ahead and say he’s out for the year, regular season and playoffs.
I don’t know that for sure, of course, but out three to four months on Jan. 17 sure sounds that way. If he comes back at the end of the regular season, how long before he’s in game shape and ready to contribute? Could he really make a difference in the playoffs under those circumstances? Is it even worth it at that point for the Hawks to send out their All-Star center with four years left on his $60 million extension?
Loading ...The Hawks might have been able to make a good run at the East finals with Horford. It would have been interesting to see if they could do it, at least. Without Horford, the focus has shifted to whether the Hawks still can make the playoffs without him (yes) or win a playoff round if they manage to make the postseason (unlikely).
But shouldn’t the thinking go beyond that that now for the Hawks? Isn’t looking to the future the prudent thing to do once you accept that a) Horford isn’t coming back or b) he won’t have much if an impact if he does or c) even if he does come back healthy this team has maxed out?
When you look ahead, you see that the Hawks have roughly $61 million committed to six players next season. If it stays that way, Atlanta will have no cap space and would face the possibility of adding free agents around Horford, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith and Jeff Teague with the mid-level, bi-annual and minimum-salary exceptions (or a higher salary through a sign-and-trade). With about $9 million of wiggle room beneath the luxury-tax line, could the Hawks build a true contender that way?
I suppose the Hawks could try to add a big now, either a stop-gap for this season or a legit center both for this postseason and next season. The free-agent pickings are slim but once Kirk Hinrich is healthy it’s possible his expiring $8.1 million contract could be flipped for a center. That most likely would mean the Hawks would have to take on more salary next season while keeping that $9 million tax wiggle room in mind.
Larry Drew, for one, is proceeding as if Atlanta will stick with the status quo.
“That’s the approach I have to take,” he said. “I don’t want to get my hopes built up about something possibly happening and it doesn’t happen. I would rather approach it as nothing is going to happen, this is the team and we will go out and do the best we can.”
If they best the Hawks can do with this roster still leaves them out of the playoffs, that would be disappointing for them considering their high hopes this season. But it may not be the worst thing in the world considering they could have a high pick in what’s supposed to be a deep draft. That player (or the pick) could be a valuable asset down the line, either as a trade chip or a promising young (and cheap) rotation player.
It’s difficult for me to guess how Hawks management would react to things coming to an end in that way for the core. The whole point of keeping this team together was to make a “make or break” run at it this year. The Hawks made the team deeper by adding minimum-salaried veterans but now the master plan has been undermined by losing one of their key cogs to a freak injury.
That’s bad luck, but does that bad luck mean the Hawks keep the core together another year for another run? If they decide this group has run its course, anyway, do they make another run at Dwight Howard even if he still doesn’t include them on his list? If they can’t get Howard, do they trade away a core piece and start building toward acquiring a different superstar or better complementary pieces around whichever part of the core is left behind after trades?
I don’t know what they should do. You tell me, blog people.
Notes
- Tracy McGrady (back) participated in a lengthy workout after practice along with Jerry Stackhouse and Jannero Pargo and looked pretty good. McGrady said he hasn’t consulted the team’s staff while dealing with his ailments: “I haven’t talked to them about it, but I feel pretty good where I’m at. I’m putting in extra work to see where I’m at coming off the back injury. I’m feeling pretty solid. I feel good, legs feel good. I’m ready to go. I wish they’d release me. And I don’t mean from the team.”
- Drew said the starting lineup could be fluid depending on opponent: “That could happen. We are looking at matchups. There are going to be some teams we play against where we are going to have to tweak it a little bit and then as the game progresses make a decision as far as other matchups. We’ve had some situations where started the game and haven’t felt totally comfortable with [matchups] but guys have played through it.”
- When Horford went down, Drew said he was concerned about the Hawks feeling sorry for themselves and letting up. That hasn’t happened: “One good thing that has happened was even when that happened, some of these veteran guys have spoken out and said these are the type of situations that show what a team is made of. These guys have been in this thing a while and they’ve experienced a lot of different situations. They are passing it on.”
- Josh on how the Hawks can keep winning without Al: “I think if Ivan keeps giving the energy and effort he’s giving off the bench and the physicality I think we will be good in the frontcourt. As long as we do that and the guards do that and play tough and make it hard to get into the paint and us being a force, we will be OK. We have to have an identity of being a scrappy team.”
- Josh on his recent tear: “I’m just being aggressive and confident but, in the same breath, playing within the offense and not forcing anything. I’m getting shots in the offense, getting open looks, and guys are finding me. Everyone is being unselfish.”
- Josh is now up to 42 percent on long 2s this season after shooting 39 percent last season. The league average from that range this year is 38 percent. “It’s really muscle memory, not fading on my jump shot and standing in there,” he said. “Whenever I do that I feel good about making shots.”
- Josh on the his slimmer frame: “I feel a little bit more explosive. I might have been winded after all these game last year.” He said it doesn’t help with his jumper, though: “There’s a lot of chubby guys out here that are strokers.”
- T-Mac on his talks with Josh: “I’ve been in his ear and telling him how he can be more effective on the basketball court. He’s one of the guys that has a high basketball IQ. He’s a good passer, he’s very athletic. At his position there are not too many guys like that. The thing about him is he has to really see the flow of the game and know what we need from him and that’s be aggressive and get to the free-throw line. That’s how you get your [scoring] average up in this league. A guy with his ability, he should shoot 8 to 10 free throws per game. I think he’s taking notice.”
- The NBA released its annual GM survey, which allows fans a chance to see that basketball executives don’t always know as much as you might think. Or maybe they just don’t care enough to fill out those surveys. Probably better for fans who care to go with the latter explanation.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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277 comments Add your comment
D
January 17th, 2012
7:16 pm
First; Lets go hawks
Rod from College Park
January 17th, 2012
7:17 pm
“•Drew said the starting lineup could be fluid depending on opponent: “That could happen. We are looking at matchups.”
MC, can you please ask Drew why come hell, sleet, rain or snow, Marvin Williams is always in the starting lineup. Also ask him if he thinks Marvin derserves to be a starter. Thanks.
CONservative Johnson
January 17th, 2012
7:17 pm
Sign somebody. Can Kenyon Martin play center?
Ray
January 17th, 2012
7:18 pm
I hope we sign an effective center to take over for the time being.
Slimjr
January 17th, 2012
7:30 pm
Get help Sund. Al is done for the year dude!
Grandmaster JeJe
January 17th, 2012
7:31 pm
Lol @ people who think we will barely make the Playoffs.
Completely off.
Al Horford is not a superstar and is a weak defender. We will be fine
Terrance
January 17th, 2012
7:33 pm
When Hinrich comes back healthy, swap him for Chris Kaman. Both players salaries come off the books at seasons end. Just don’t include any 1st round draft picks Sund.
Grandmaster JeJe
January 17th, 2012
7:33 pm
Cosign Rod.
Marvin Williams is the worst player on the Atlanta Hawks.
He missed 4 finishes at the rim yesterday and got shut down by Luke Ridnour 3 nights ago
hawkfan335
January 17th, 2012
7:34 pm
I would see what Marvin Williams and Kirk Hinrich together in one trade might bring for a center.
JMO.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
7:36 pm
Josh on the his slimmer frame: “I feel a little bit more explosive. I might have been winded after all these game last year.” He said it doesn’t help with his jumper, though: “There’s a lot of chubby guys out here that are strokers.”
T-Mac on his talks with Josh: “I’ve been in his ear and telling him how he can be more effective on the basketball court. He’s one of the guys that has a high basketball IQ. He’s a good passer, he’s very athletic. At his position there are not too many guys like that. The thing about him is he has to really see the flow of the game and know what we need from him and that’s be aggressive and get to the free-throw line. That’s how you get your [scoring] average up in this league. A guy with his ability, he should shoot 8 to 10 free throws per game. I think he’s taking notice.”
——–
Man I was watching the MIL-PHI game and that is not on Bogut.
Man Bogut is killing Hawes. Not that a winning team would get him that many iso touches.
But goddamn Milwaukee is terrible.
But I am seeing a flaw in Leuer that he’s not guarding the physical Elton Brand. He’s defending The weaker Spencer Hawes. And he’s not allowed to play the perimeter because they have no inside play aside from Bogut.
But Leuer’s form is good. lol Bogut pull up 3 at the buzzer.
It was not layup lines on Bogut. It was layup lines off of perimeter turnovers from Jennings, Delfino doing nothing and S-Jax having no athleticism. Jeez remember when Jennings was good? Airball fadeaway 3s?
The Bucks problem is they are big but lack athleticism. Our problem is Marvin Williams can’t shoot and we are small.
I officially propose trading Horford for Leuer and Bogut.
Bogut gives us a true center better than Jason Collins.
Leuer can pick and pop like Horford. Or we can groom him to stand in corner and rain in jumpers and trail the fast break for 3s. People have to be chasing us all over the court.
With Bucks giving up on their season after Jennings stunk it up. That trade is our chance to actually play 5 on 5 most nights.
On our side, the Josh Smith “Clearout-pick and rolls” to start were great.
A problem Leuer had last night was defending Elton Brands. But most matchups you can play him and Smith together. Others you can play Smith and Vlad at the 3.
But make that trade for now and the future.
Horford for Bogut and Leuer. Bench Marvin. Start Vlad. Start Bogut. Practice Leuer and reprogram him into that corner shot that Marvin is positioned in. Bogut and Pachulia and Collins split minutes until playoffs. Collins to 3rd string.
Some suggestions outside of the corner jumper for Leuer: If PFs want to guard Josh and a wing switches onto Leuer we get some post up mismatches (ala Joe Johnson) Leuer has automatic layups with his size if SFs or PFs try to guard him.
This makes us very big, gives us spacing and a fast break trailer and lets Smith get out in transition more.
Milwaukee can focus on next season and the lottery pick they get from tanking with young guys. Next year they have Harris, Jennings, Horford and a lotto pick.
Hell I’d maybe throw in Marvin 12mpg off the bench for S-Jax 12mpg off the bench. But I would not start S-Jax.
We need SIZE and Shooting. Josh is a helpside blocker. And playing him at PF/C must stop.
Sol
January 17th, 2012
7:38 pm
Once Kirk is Healthy, Hawks should trade him and get a big man and first rounder for this year and play Willie Green at small forward more minutes than Mervin Williams.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
7:40 pm
I would see what Marvin Williams and Kirk Hinrich together in one trade might bring for a center.
——-
I know Hinrich expires but Thats $16 mil in annual salary. What center is $16 million but could be had for an injured expiring and an overpaid bench player?
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
7:43 pm
MC, can you please ask Drew why come hell, sleet, rain or snow, Marvin Williams is always in the starting lineup. Also ask him if he thinks Marvin derserves to be a starter. Thanks.
———-
vet minimum Radmanovic starting over $8 million Marvin Williams is embarassing for everyone in the front office.
But we need those types of players to spread for Teague, Joe and Smith. But also can help on defense,
Marvin is an embarrassment.
MattP
January 17th, 2012
7:43 pm
Grandmaster JeJe,
We will be find getting to the playoffs but without help we are looking at a first round exit, it also really depends who we match up with.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
7:48 pm
Willie Green at small forward…
Willie Green is 6′4.
If anyones Smart the wings you play Joe Johnson next to Josh Smith against ATL. in a big lineup.
Joe Johnson vs Wade
Battier/Lebron vs Josh Smith
you can’t afford to let Battier guard Joe Johnson and nullify size advantage. Need bigs to rebound. Need Leuer to stretch the floor and Bogut and Smith setting screen and roll. This would put Lebron James showing on pick and rolls and crashing boards which is out of his comfort zone.
I’d love to see Battier guard Smith in a pick and roll. Or post defend Leuer.
But above all you cannot go small and allow Battier to switch onto Joe Johnson.
Rev in Tampa
January 17th, 2012
7:49 pm
It is totally unacceptable that six days have passed and three games have been played yet even the coach has no idea what the Hawk’s General Manager is planning to do to address Horford’s absence.
Dept. Of Redundancy Dept.
January 17th, 2012
7:54 pm
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
enough said
Another GM
January 17th, 2012
7:58 pm
Sund wont make any moves. Why in the hell Sund is a GM is beyond many people in the league.
Bigman needed
January 17th, 2012
8:02 pm
Bogut is not what this team needs, another soft, nice guy. Bogut cannot stay healthy and doesnt defend well. Bogut can post up a little, but he’s a liability. Bogut projects to be a chris kaman type. Not bad but not what we need.
We need toughness, defense, lunch pail guy. Chandler, camby, noah, nene type.
Big ben in his prime! Dikembe back in the day!
We’ve got the scoring covered with joe, josh, teague, tmac stepping up.
Make the move for okafor- 4th in career rebounding among active players
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
8:07 pm
1) Horford’s injury was not a freak injury. He tried to dunk on a taller player. Not enough length. He gets fouled and is slammed to the ground.
Only a long Amare type could have made that jam. Al doesn’t have the length to be a dominant inside scorer. And he aint quick enough to compensate.
2) But shouldn’t the thinking go beyond that that now for the Hawks? Isn’t looking to the future the prudent thing to do once you accept that a) Horford isn’t coming back or b) he won’t have much if an impact if he does or c) even if he does come back healthy this team has maxed out?
I’ll answer with a question. What exactly is Horford’s role to help the team?
Our core is
Jeff Teague (slasher)+Joe Johnson (shooter)
Josh Smith (slasher)
We’ve seen we don’t need his pick-and-pop-and-avoid-the-paint points. What we need is defense rebounding to overcome the size we lack.
The backcourt is set. Teague and JJ is a big complementary backcourt. Post ups with JJ can be had. Pick and pop for 3. Spot up for 3 off penetration.
Now what Smith needs is a spot up shooter for his penetration. A dead eye shooter with size.
Smith should get his points off those Cleared out Pick and rolls. Staying in that painted rectangle playing high low like he’s been doing.
With all the inside plays and double teams. This team just needs a corner shooter at the other forward.
Center- Tyson Chandler/athletic Jason Collins type. Use size to get us more opportunity. When Joe is doubled catch drop step and dunk on Joakim/Joel Anthony/whomever rotates.
Use size on Bricked Jumpers to get us Tip outs and extra possessions lead to burning defense for 3s.
Teague, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, (PF version of Joe Johnson), Andrew Bogut
Leuer seems like the PF version of Joe Johnson in PHO. Might not look impressive but put him in a corner buy himself Other guys are going to create for him. and he has to knock it down. Has size etc. At his size has too much skill and is the ultimate role player. Just don’t overpay him ASG lol.
Blast
January 17th, 2012
8:08 pm
Every move LeBron makes results in free throws, real or not.
Every move the Spurs make to the hold results in an offensive foul or no call.
Reminds me of the Hawks.
And that Teague needs to play as selfish as Tony Parker tonight. Aggressive, look for your shot first, then dish if you don’t have it.
Jeff Teague has what it takes to be as good as Tony, Chris Paul, Rondo, and D Rose. He simply needs time and experience to harness it.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
8:10 pm
Nene’s not soft?
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2011/12/6/2614884/q-a-with-denver-stiffs-nene-free-agency
“The biggest misconception surrounding Nene is that he’s soft. He sure hasn’t been quiet, publicly, about not liking the center position, but he also kept playing there night in and night out.”
Guy can’t rebound and does nothing on defense.
Bigman needed
January 17th, 2012
8:11 pm
Bucks will NEVER trade bogut
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
8:13 pm
Nene means “Baby” in Portuguese or whatever Nene speaks.
Baby? nuff said. Joakim Noah is a PF without a jumper. Chris Bosh played center against him. And the Bulls lost.
JaeEvolution
January 17th, 2012
8:15 pm
Kirk + Marvin for Semih Erden and Antwan Jamison.
Young 7 footer and a big expiring contract both of whom are big bodies and are mobile. Jamison still has game and Erden looked good for the C’s before he was traded hasn’t been getting much playtime in Cleveland he can come here and show us what he’s got left.
teedub
January 17th, 2012
8:17 pm
Tomorrow night will be the real test to see how we do without Horf. I expect this game will tell management if they need a band-aid or a permanent fix. This is a very interesting time for the Hawks.
I’m in the camp that thinks Horf’s a bit overrated. However, you are crazy if you think this isn’t a big loss. The main reason being there is no one on the bench even close to being able to effectively eat those minutes. Collins is a ghost, and ZaZa can only score off of his own miss. He’s an energy role player, not a borderline starter.
And I do believe this team can get past the second round, particularly if we can find a band-aid.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
8:19 pm
“Bucks will NEVER trade bogut”
They thought he could just surround him with shooters ala Dwight but he wasn’t that good. So why wouldn’t Bucks rebuild and aim for another superstar?
They are still young with Jennings and Harris. And they could also flip Al for more picks. What are their options now? Making the playoffs serves no purpose if you cant win it all.
sturt
January 17th, 2012
8:19 pm
I’ve felt like they were too small in the frontcourt even BEFORE the Horf injury. I see this as the hoops gods intervening and forcing Sund/Gearon to correct what they left undone in the preseason, so that when they get to the postseason, they have ample meat down low.
I hate to see them let go of Hirich because of what I think he impact he, too, would have on the post-season.
So, I’m crossing my fingers that Przybilla’s mind and his knees are up to signing on.
I think it’s a perfect situation for him… wouldn’t have to log long minutes, yet could have important impact on a team that’s plausibly a threat, though still an under-the-radar one.
Mike is Back
January 17th, 2012
8:20 pm
Good Stuff MC, I don’t get to blog much…but I have been impressed with LD thus far. I like the defensive focus of the team…Josh and JJ have really stepped up. The bench has been HUGE.
Glad to hear TMack is in Josh ear…I hope Josh can stay dialed in…it has been a treat to watch him play the last couple of games.
Love watching Ivan The Terrible do his thang!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
8:21 pm
Antwan Jamison. is a worse defender and less athletic at this point than Radmanovic. And an even worse shooter.
So he’d be trying to play inside, moving Smith outside. He’d very easily be Marvin Williams plus 10 years. lol Sund would be fired.
Blast
January 17th, 2012
8:21 pm
The league is soooooooo riding Miami’s shorts. Soft schedule to start, and help with whistles all the way. Duncan was so fouled by Bosh, refs saw it, didn’t call it, and Tim ended up with a T for protesting. Reminds you of anyone…? Josh, maybe?
Lately, if Joe complained about how many times he drove the ball and got fouled but no call, he would be thrown out of every game!
NBA is fixed, because the league/refs favor certain teams!
So is the NFL!
Luke Cage
January 17th, 2012
8:22 pm
SWEET CHRISTMAS!!!
GT Alum
January 17th, 2012
8:22 pm
Rev -
I doubt Sund knows what he’s doing. And that’s not meant as an attack. He’s probably trying to gague the options, and those are probably changing often. A GM shouldn’t make a move to make a move. He should make a move because he thinks it will improve the team.
MattP
January 17th, 2012
8:23 pm
I kinda want them to trade Hinrich for a center because I know once he comes back LD will play him alot more then Teague.
Apple
January 17th, 2012
8:23 pm
Nene beat cancer, he’s not soft.
Some of you probably call out of work for having a cold.
JaeEvolution
January 17th, 2012
8:23 pm
Teague/Joe/Vlad/Smith/Erden
Pargo/Green/T-Mac/Jamison/Zaza
Pargo is good, but if we could a slightly better back up PG that would be a pretty good team.
Luke Cage
January 17th, 2012
8:24 pm
Would be nice to get Kaman for this season, but for the future I would rather see Javelle McGee, unrestricted FA this year, not alot of scoring but a presence that will block or alter alot of shots plus he avg 10rbs a game, runs the floor and a great finisher.
The Truth
January 17th, 2012
8:29 pm
The next blogger who declares a Hawk player needs to be traded for a center, (other than Bogut and D12) would you please be specific and name names.
Thank You
Mike is Back
January 17th, 2012
8:30 pm
Oh yeah, to answer the question…I think ultimately with the number of games remaining …Sund may have to make some type of move to acquire a Big… just to keep from having to wear down the Bigs that we already have…If that makes since…hmmmm.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Apple
January 17th, 2012
8:30 pm
Everyone trashed Horford, but as soon as he goes down, you panic? What’s this talk about defense and rebounding? I thought Al didn’t produce?
JaeEvolution
January 17th, 2012
8:30 pm
Luke Cage Javale is restricted and when the Wiz amnesty Lewis they will be near 40m under the cap, they are going to give him stupid money and it’s only fitting because he’s well…stupid.
S.L.B. Yeah he’s not a good defender, but I’ll take his streaky shooting, unorthodox shots, and 15m expiring any day since we are going to lose Kirk anyway and get out of Marvins 7.5m. Also we get a 25 year old 7 footer which makes us a little bigger for cheap.
darrell starks
January 17th, 2012
8:35 pm
What should Hawks do ? continue to starte Collins, he set the tone on defense, and bring in Zaza behind him.
Collins was the reason Hawks beat Timberwolves, he shut down the paint on defense and allow Hawks to comeback and win.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hawks Fan Down Under
January 17th, 2012
8:36 pm
I dont get whats happening with Tmac. He tells Drew his back is tight after 8mins then doesnt play 2nd half. Then comes out the very next day saying he feels fine and wishes they’d release him for more playing time. WTF?!
Somethings not right . Either Drew is scared to play him (or doesnt like him) or Tmac is full of s#$t. My guess would be the former.
Grandmaster JeJe
January 17th, 2012
8:36 pm
Looks like Tracy has really helped Smoove. Is Stack necessary at this point?
Grandmaster JeJe
January 17th, 2012
8:37 pm
TMac says he is ready to go but just missed a ton of games and the 2nd half yesterday to a back injury.
Luke Cage
January 17th, 2012
8:38 pm
I agree @Apple, but he’s got a better chance coming here than D12 or Bogut….As I’ve said before, Dwight doesn’t want to come to the Hawks so I wouldn’t trade for him unless he agrees to an extension which he won’t do.
Lets not do any knee jerk reaction type trades by the way.
X factor
January 17th, 2012
8:41 pm
I think many including the featured writer of this blog , over estimate 12pts 8 rb 1blk 3 turnovers, 1shot blocked. that is Al horford. I
dont know how to say it any clearer. Those are very pedestrian numbers. We can bring guys off the bench to do that. The only thing I credit Al for is having used this blog site as his fan club.
MC talks as if Al was going to make a difference in how far we advance in the playoffs, not willing to concede that this is a much better team without Al.
If you agree that the above numbers are pedestrian then you are going to shake you head at his play off numbers
10pt 7rbs 1 blk 1blk-Against 3 TO.
Can some one explain how those numbers can make a difference in the playoffs? What game are you guys watching? Those numbers are an embarrassment. Before you cry fluke, those numbers are after 39 playoff games.
Our playoff successes are not because of Al… They are in spite of Al.
Our playoff successes are not because of Al… They are in spite of Al.
Moving on. Its been time to get a real center. Im not talking about a “big” but a center. Get someone who plays the position for a career not on a ‘as needed basis”
Its time to amnesty Al and get what weve been missing All along, A center. We dont need a “rent a body” in hopes that Al will not only recover (this is a very serious injury) but that he will Mysteriously be an impacting force ,who for some strange reason now likes to play defense.
That aint going to happen.
It may be 2 or 3 years if ever before Al is back where he was. Which again is 12pts 8 rbs.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
8:43 pm
Everyone trashed Horford, but as soon as he goes down, you panic? What’s this talk about defense and rebounding? I thought Al didn’t produce?
———-
Jason Collins or Al Horford hmmm… Well Collins did his job against Dwight. Horford vs Ryan Anderson… not so much.
This is ATL’s time to go after a true center and stop BS’ing about Al Horford’s nonexistent upside.
Wasn’t he 400th in FTA or something like that last year?
As much as Marvin and Zaza suck. Why are they neck and neck with Horford in FTA?
Trade Horford. Yesterday.
Bigman needed
January 17th, 2012
8:44 pm
I dont get whats happening with Tmac. He tells Drew his back is tight after 8mins then doesnt play 2nd half. Then comes out the very next day saying he feels fine and wishes they’d release him for more playing time. WTF?!
And then MC wrote tmac said he was fine and wishes they would release him.
But bottom line is we need to keep tmac healthy for post season
darrell starks
January 17th, 2012
8:44 pm
STARTERS TEAGUE, JOE, VLAD, JOSH, COLLINS.
BENCH PARGO, GREEN, TMAC, IVAN, ZAZA,
RESERVE STACK, MARVIN
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Smith.Vlad.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
8:48 pm
Only thing people can do to defend Horford is say. “He has a good IQ”.
Well I ain’t looking for brain. Man defense. Length and quick for Shot alterations.
Dunk off a JJ double team. Or Teague penetration.
Hit an occasional 10 foot jumper. Note I did not say get another 6′8 center who stays outside with inability to play inside and builds his offense off of jumpers.
Ivan Johnson is the new Horford. Now get a classic center. Get Bogut so we can whup Philly’s ass.
Hawks Fan Down Under
January 17th, 2012
8:49 pm
Agree that Al is overrated. I was surprised he was an All-Star both years then somehow got voted into the All-NBA team? He was projected to be a 20-10 guy that never eventuated. People got wrapped up in his rookie year of 10 and 10 that put him alongside some of the greats like Alonzo and Shaq. But he hasnt gotten better so it’d be a good move to trade him while people think he is a gun and he is still young.
Of course sacking LD is the highest of priorities as always!
Surely we could get some one for a either Horford, Heinrich, Marvin. But can you trade injured players?
Smith.Vlad.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
8:53 pm
hope Horford returns for a playoffs run.
Playoff run?
What would Horford do in the playoffs…Guys, his timing would be gone. He’d be weak in the paint. Omg if thats the plan then you deserve to lose Josh Smith via free agency.
Rebuilding around average. The ATL way.
Ed Gray
January 17th, 2012
8:55 pm
Any chance we could trade for Durant?
Sam
January 17th, 2012
8:57 pm
Hawks plans for now and beyond…
Do like the Celtics did a couple years ago when they built their big 3
1. Trade Josh/Marvin and whatever it takes to make salaries work and trade for Dwight Howard.
2. Amnesty Joe @ year end. That’d clear up whatever space we need to resign Dwight AND a priemer player, like Deron Williams, this summer.
3. If Dwight leaves @ year end, start over with a core of Al/Teague, amnesty Joe, and try to lure a star.
ATL_Champs2012
January 17th, 2012
9:04 pm
nothing this team is set and ready to be great as is and ready to catch fire in the playoffs with horford returning
MattP
January 17th, 2012
9:07 pm
ATL_Champs2012,
It is set and ready? You know that if Horford does get lucky and can return for the playoffs he will not beable to play 30+ minutes a game, he also will be rusty.
DSC
January 17th, 2012
9:08 pm
I kind of just want to start over with this team. Just strip the roster and get Michael Kidd-Gilchrist as a 3 and Thomas Robinson as the 4. Go from there. Its time to blow it up.
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 17th, 2012
9:09 pm
Achey Breaky Heart!
“The whole point of keeping this team together was to make a “make or break” run at it this year. The Hawks made the team deeper by adding minimum-salaried veterans but now the master plan has been undermined by losing one of their key cogs to a freak injury.
That’s bad luck, but does that bad luck mean the Hawks keep the core together another year for another run? If they decide this group has run its course, anyway, do they make another run at Dwight Howard even if he still doesn’t include them on his list? If they can’t get Howard, do they trade away a core piece and start building toward acquiring a different superstar or better complementary pieces around whichever part of the core is left behind after trades?
I don’t know what they should do. You tell me, blog people.” -MC-
_____________________
Achey Breaky Heart is an old country song that was a hit a while back and yes I thought it was an appropriate theme to describe what the loss of Al Horford means to me. Yes! I do love country music. I voted to trade for the future, I for one can see the optimism however, this core has reached it’s cieling three years ago.
Emotions aside, I dont need to see Groundhog Day every day before I know the outcome. The reason I fall asleep at every movie house I’ve been to, is because within 30 seconds of the start time I can predict the final episode. In other words, I am not easily entertained. That is the sole reason I am addicted to sports, you just cant make this stuff up. Sports is the quintessiential of LIVE ENTERTAINMENT!
Here’s my point: Blow it up and re-do the cast! For the future. Start with Sund, since we cant get rid of the fkg owners. How many times do you need to slam your head into a wall, before you realize the wall ain’t moving? 2nd round exit people!!! it is what it is.
Ken Strickland
January 17th, 2012
9:14 pm
It looks like Horford’s injury, and our 3gm winning streak, has given HORFOR HATERS another excuse to display their shameless ignorance and/or stupidity IGNORANCE, STUPIDITY, or BOTH? STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES. In previous seasons we only had Zaza, STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.
it looks like the majority of Buck fans would jump at the chance to take Horford and get rid of Bogut, straight up. ABSOLUTE DUMBA$$ES and They realize something that our HORFORD HATING and BOGUT LOVING Hawk fans are too blinded by their self serving agendas to realize. And that’s the fact that Bogut is a total waste when he’s sitting on the bench in a suit and tie nursing a hang nail, which he does far too often.
Do any of you BOGUT LOVERS remember when the Bucks took us to 7gms, without Bogut,? Stop being a bunch of ABSOLUTE DUMBA$$ES and start dealing with reality for a change. Try it, if you can, you might learn to like it. If not, STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES. has given HORFOR HATERS another excuse to display their shameless ignorance and/or stupidity IGNORANCE, STUPIDITY, realize something that our HORFORD HATING and BOGUT LOVING Hawk fans are too blinded by their self serving agendas IGNORANCE HORFOR HATERS ABSOLUTE DUMBA$$ES
Ed Gray
January 17th, 2012
9:20 pm
Ken, I’m sure there’s a point in there some where.
Bigman needed
January 17th, 2012
9:21 pm
At the half bogut has 2&5 pn 1-5 shooting, while nene has 12 & 6. Denver up by about 20.
Milwaukee at home!
Im sure they will come back in 2nd half. Leuer is about to get hot!
Astro Joe
January 17th, 2012
9:21 pm
Rod, are you expecting LD to say “I don’t believe that Marvin should start but I do so anyway”? Or better yet, “I think marvin is a below average player who won’t likely get better but because the GM signed him to a stupid contract, I am forced to start him, but I refuse to have himm finish a game”. Is that what you’re expecting MC to gift-wrap for you?
Steven A
January 17th, 2012
9:22 pm
Al Horford is a really nice guy, but he “SUCKS” as a NBA Center. He is too SOFTand he cannot protect the rim. Al stinks and he is Over-rated, PERIOD!!!!!!!! Having said that, he is a nice PF 4th
option.
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
9:24 pm
TMac said, “T-Mac on his talks with Josh: “I’ve been in his ear and telling him how he can be more effective on the basketball court. He’s one of the guys that has a high basketball IQ.”
Hmmm, somebody other than myself notices Josh has a high BB IQ. He doesn’t always play like he does, but objectively, he does.
TMac said, “The thing about him is he has to really see the flow of the game and know what we need from him and that’s be aggressive and get to the free-throw line. That’s how you get your [scoring] average up in this league. A guy with his ability, he should shoot 8 to 10 free throws per game. I think he’s taking notice.”
Hmmm again, Look like TMac is being a leader.
As far as what I would do, 1st, I’d bring in Chris Daniels and see what he can do. If he does well in a tryout, sign him to a 10 day contract and cut probably Stack.
Daniels could be your stretch Big.
Nique
January 17th, 2012
9:25 pm
Al Horford “nembers” do not add up to 12 mill. per year. However, i would like to borrow some of his
suits.
Just Joe
January 17th, 2012
9:26 pm
My primary focus whether Horford is healthy or not is to get something of value in return from a Joe Johnson trade.
My secondary focus whether Horford is healthy or not is to get something of value in return from a Marvin Williams trade.
X factor
January 17th, 2012
9:27 pm
“Only thing people can do to defend Horford is say. “He has a good IQ”.
I always thought the way to defend Horford was to attack Josh. Thats what the Al Apologist have been doing for quite a while. As if some how verbally abusing Josh, would justify Al.
Time for a change. Its funny how enthusiastic the team has been of late. Like a heavy burden has been lifted.
No more locker room fighting. Just peace and a desire to win, not whine. Nobody’s demanding to play any position or wanting the ball more on offense. The team just wants to win.
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
9:28 pm
SLB – At 7:36 you said this, “I officially propose trading Horford for Leuer and Bogut.”
Haven’t you officially proposed this trade 487,000 times in the last month? We comprehend man. Go watch a Woody Allen movie and give us a review or something.
Smith.Vlad.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
9:28 pm
MAtched up against Kurt Thomas Dan Gadzuric and Ersan Ilyasova. Missing Bogut. Hawks had Horford and Marvin. Result 7 games and Kurt Thomas called Horford a B-word that rhymes with “witch”
Would we have won against the Bobcats with Iso Horford vs Diaw? We didn’t the first time. Smith and Horford both play the same position. And both want to lead breaks. Sometimes less is more.
And as far as matchups. Horford as a PF has been very very dissapointing. Can’t blame him for injury. He said something to the effect of “I’m obviously a 4 and not a natural center”.
Yet Bosh averaged 25ppg as a center.
Jack of all trades master of none. Get this guy out of here for masters/specialists. Unless you have a superstar stabilizing force (as opposed to Marvin), you can’t have Josh Smith and Al Horford together and expect to win. They play the same position and the core is poisoned.
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 17th, 2012
9:29 pm
*ceiling
… and, we dont need Al Horford healthy to tell us what is gonna’ happen next. now that he is gone, the bench has a new hole in it. This car don’t need a spare tire, we need a new set of Michelins, front and rear end alignment, balance’ rotation. And while on the subject, get a new driver (management) because, this car is headed into a very steep, mountainous embankment.
Don’t let three wins against scrub teams lull you into a false sense of security. Be smarter than that.
Nique
January 17th, 2012
9:30 pm
Some of these clowns on this Blog need to CALM DOWN. In my day, Tree Rollins would have dominated AL “SCRUB” Horford. I’m surprised he didn’t marry a Kardashian. Anyone want to sell me some SUITS?
Smith.Vlad.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
9:30 pm
Bogut is not Kaman. Andrew Bogut is “Marc Gasol if he had no help and had to lead a team”.
Ed Gray
January 17th, 2012
9:31 pm
Ding Dong the witch is dead the witch is dead Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead!!
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
9:31 pm
Daniels is shooting 45% from 3 point range on a 6-9 265 lb frame, if you want a stretch big. Same team in DLeague as Ivan and Sloan.
Averages more Boards and Blocks than Ivan did in DLeague.
Just sayin’.
Bigman needed
January 17th, 2012
9:31 pm
Byombo 11 & 10, 4 blocks in 20 mins. That is work
6′ 9″ center?
Astro Joe
January 17th, 2012
9:33 pm
Steve, if MC asked TMac what he thought of Pargo, I’d bet a mortgage payment that he would say something positive that would make him sound like a guy who should be getting 20 minutes/game on a legit title contender. Hasn’t Josh claimed that one reason he tales jumpers is because his teammates “believes he can make them” (or something like that)? Sorry, I think his teammates are being good friends and loyal co-workers (as they should).
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
9:34 pm
Can’t believe Kurt Thomas is starting at C for Portland some. And last game had by far the best +/- of their starters.
Two of our 4 second picks for Kurt Thomas if the Blazers would do it. He’s a solid player still at 38 or whatever, for limited stretches.
Nique
January 17th, 2012
9:34 pm
Smith.Vlad.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
9:28 pm
MAtched up against Kurt Thomas Dan Gadzuric and Ersan Ilyasova. Missing Bogut. Hawks had Horford and Marvin. Result 7 games and Kurt Thomas called Horford a B-word that rhymes with “witch”
Would we have won against the Bobcats with Iso Horford vs Diaw? We didn’t the first time. Smith and Horford both play the same position. And both want to lead breaks. Sometimes less is more.
And as far as matchups. Horford as a PF has been very very dissapointing. Can’t blame him for injury. He said something to the effect of “I’m obviously a 4 and not a natural center”.
Yet Bosh averaged 25ppg as a center.
Jack of all trades master of none. Get this guy out of here for masters/specialists. Unless you have a superstar stabilizing force (as opposed to Marvin), you can’t have Josh Smith and Al Horford together and expect to win. They play the same position and the core is poisoned.
Link
Report this comment
Great Post…, I COULD NOT AGREE MORE. Sick and tired of not having a True starting 5.
Bigman needed
January 17th, 2012
9:34 pm
Greg monroe being shutout by dalembert!
This is what a defensive presence can do people
X factor
January 17th, 2012
9:35 pm
Damn Whats Ken smoking? Stay away from the women and children.
hawks21
January 17th, 2012
9:36 pm
I would trade for McGee (Wizards) – Center, b/c now he is out of favor with the coaching staff. I would send Marvin and Kirk for him ASAP!!!!
steven a
January 17th, 2012
9:36 pm
trade Marvin, AL, and Kirk Heinrich by the trading deadline. 1 Big plus draft pick.
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
9:37 pm
AJ – So we will still disagree that Josh has a high BB IQ. That’s ok. But off the court, please tell me what Josh says about BB, besides his game, which he is obviously delusional about sometimes, that tell you that he has a low BB IQ?
I have seem many evidences in his conversations that I have seen and read over the years that lead me to believe otherwise. The guy is brilliant about BB, he just doesn’t know himself.
But your entitled to your opinion.
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
9:39 pm
“tells” and “seen” should be in my last post, not tell and seem. OOops!
X factor
January 17th, 2012
9:41 pm
I think Josh is a smart MF. It you dumb azz bloggers who are stupid.
steven a
January 17th, 2012
9:41 pm
Whomever they trade for, no one over the age of 28, PERIOD!!!!
Smith.Vlad.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
9:41 pm
Outside of the centers (Bogut and Nene) who would you pick to win the game. Milwaukee or Denver?
nuff said.
And Leuer is not playing the same position in MIL that he;d play here. That would make it 4 out and only 1 player inside battling for rebounds.
Like Orlando with Dwight
steven a
January 17th, 2012
9:43 pm
I can see most of the Bloggers here are “College Educated.”
hawks21
January 17th, 2012
9:43 pm
Then your starting line up would look like this: Teague (PG), Johnson (SG), McGee (C), Smith (SF), Vald (PF). Bench Pargo, Green, McGrady, ZaZa, Ivan, Collins
Marcus
January 17th, 2012
9:44 pm
MC,
‘Boss’ will be channeling his “inner Rod Woodson” (circa ‘95 NFL season)….and the Highlight Factory will go wild!!!
steven a
January 17th, 2012
9:45 pm
Ken Strickland and X-Factor must be on Snoop
KEN STRICKLAND
January 17th, 2012
9:45 pm
Do any of you BOGUT LOVERS remember when the Bucks took us to 7gms, without Bogut,? Stop You guys arebeing a bunch of ABSOLUTE DUMBA$$ES and start dealing with reality for a change. Try it, if you can, you might learn to like it. If not, STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES. has given HORFORD HATERS another excuse to display their shameless ignorance and/or stupidity IGNORANCE, STUPIDITY,
YOU SHOULD realize something that our HORFORD HATING and BOGUT LOVING Hawk fans are too blinded by their self serving agendas
IGNORANCE HORFOR HATERS ABSOLUTE DUMBA$$ES.
THERE IS NO WAY WE SHOULD TRADE HORFORD. DUMBA$$$$$$ES
STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.
doc
January 17th, 2012
9:45 pm
T-Mac on his talks with Josh: “I’ve been in his ear and telling him how he can be more effective on the basketball court. He’s one of the guys that has a high basketball IQ. He’s a good passer, he’s very athletic. At his position there are not too many guys like that. The thing about him is he has to really see the flow of the game and know what we need from him and that’s be aggressive and get to the free-throw line. That’s how you get your [scoring] average up in this league. A guy with his ability, he should shoot 8 to 10 free throws per game. I think he’s taking notice.”
could tmac say this to jj as well?
Astro Joe
January 17th, 2012
9:46 pm
Steve, I think folk confuse skill and vision for IQ. He has great vision and above average skills to complement outstanding athleticism and defensive instincts. With that package, if he truly had great Bball IQ, would there still be issues with his poor decision making?
Bigman needed
January 17th, 2012
9:46 pm
Javal mcgee is on an expiring deal at 2 mil and will demand a max extension. He’s 12 &10, 3 blocks.
If you took rashard lewis 21 mil per 2 yrs left. Washington might listen
steven a
January 17th, 2012
9:46 pm
Ken Strickland and X-Factor must be on Snoop Dogs Bus tonight, and some other AL Horford lovers.
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
9:47 pm
Bucks vs Denver – 3rd Quarter midway – Bogut 2 pts, 5rebs, 4 turnonvers, Leuer 0 rebounds, 5 pts
Nene 14 and 9, Mozgov 4 and 5
Bogut for Heisman! Bogut for President! Bogut for UN General Secty! Bogut for Peace in the Middle East! Bogut for Santa Claus! Trade the whole team for these two, they can win it all 2 on 5!
Bogut for MVP! Leuer of course 2nd in all of this
SLB – Just messin’ with you – sorry man
X factor
January 17th, 2012
9:48 pm
steven a or what ever other name you troll by, probably that sauttee guy. I think you and Ken are both smoking something illegal. Dude Its only basketball.
Calm down.
Eric
January 17th, 2012
9:52 pm
Wow. I hate to say it, but the conversation on this blog is becoming very poor and uninteresting. That’s not the result any mistakes on your part though, MC. The coverage that you provide has been very timely and informative so far this season, good stuff. However, the comments are almost not even worth reading anymore. A lot of the regulars who usually have interesting opinions/insight to share and whom I’ve become accustomed to seeing on the blog over the years do not seem to post very often anymore. I can’t blame them, the comments have degraded significantly. Rarely do I still read interesting or informative posts or find people using evidence to try and reinforce their statements on here anymore. At this point, I mostly read complaints and tons of foolish spam (mostly by the same person under different identities, my apologies to the others). It’s just not worth my time to read this anymore. Hopefully, there aren’t a lot of others who feel the same way.
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
9:53 pm
AJ – I don’t think your hearing me.
You said, “if he truly had great Bball IQ, would there still be issues with his poor decision making?”
I have repeatedly said his BB IQ is a not applied to his game many times. That is his blind spot.
Does Phil Jackson not have a high BB IQ because he’s not on the court? How about Adelman, Nelson, Lenny, Doc? Catch my point? He knows how the game is supposed to be played, he just can’t apply it to himself, comprende’?
I’ve coached some guys like that. BB minds. Knew where everybody on the court should be. How to beat every team we played. Incredible insight. Then when they got on the court, everything they said on the sideline left them, and they would play a terrible game, going against what they said on the sideline.
That’s what I mean.
X factor
January 17th, 2012
9:53 pm
Jon Koncak was in Al Hofords ear saying fck these mother fckers. you done got paid. lets go down to Orlando and get us a couple hoezz
Al Horford
January 17th, 2012
9:55 pm
Ya’ll figure that chit out.
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
9:56 pm
Robin Lopez only 9 minutes tonite – Gortat and Frye are killing his minutes – We might could acquire him cheaply.
He’s a bum? Ok, but you need some semi-talented bums sometimes. It’s not like your going to acquire an All Star in our position without giving up alot..
steven a
January 17th, 2012
9:57 pm
” I am Sick and tired of people defending AL “scrub” Horford.” He is holding this fanchise back, both he and Marvin,”
John
January 17th, 2012
9:58 pm
Smith,Kirk,Marvin for Howard. He wants to leave ORL
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
10:04 pm
In defense of Leuer, he is up to 11 points and 1 rebound in garbage time in the 4th, as the Bucks are getting blown out at home by the Nuggets.
Jamal
January 17th, 2012
10:04 pm
Eric, I feel you, man.
The comments on here are garbage these days. I can sum it up pretty easily:
- TS will post under tons of identities insulting Horford in any and all ways that he can think of.
- SlimJr will pop in now and then and complain about something and talk about how the team is done and how we need to do something “YESTERDAY”.
- Smith.Leuer.Bogut will address the Hawks’ problems by fantasizing and sharing how much better he thinks we’d be with Leuer and Bogut (two guys who will never play here) and then try to twist the facts to make his argument sound more interesting.
- Sautee or Ken, or someone who actually understands basketball, will waste their time responding to the trolls and then there will be some back and forth argument.
- Depending on how the team played in the previous game, Section ___ will either call the team garbage and soft or talk about how we are better than people think.
- Someone will demand that we fire the coach..
- Drmaryb will pop in with some funny material starting with a random catch phrase, and if someone disagrees with her in a manner that isn’t respectful or questions her credibility, she’ll get explicit and start calling them out like it’s a street fight.
- Grandad will defend Drmaryb and then discuss his theories with a lot of asterisks and hyphens.
- Occasionally, Najeh will pop in and post something good.
Other than that, we’ll get some random people trying to be positive or talking about how they hate the team and how we are not going anywhere, or they’ll make fun of Sund.
Smith.Vlad.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
10:05 pm
MC never asked the question if the Hawks are better off building around Smith and Teague instead of Horford.
Smith is only one year older than Horford.
What players want to come here, to an ATL team without Josh Smith? If Josh went down instead of Horford you think Al would have dropped 30?
you guys are jokesters lol
Anyone who says it would be easier to take Al out the core is a hater?
Josh + true shooter PF + true center
Yeah we could use a center tomorrow vs. Lamarcus Aldridge. But why does that center have to be Horford.
He ain’t playing tomorrow. So we lose and then what. Strickland comes in and starts saying “OH YOU NEED HORFORD HATERS !!!”.
Oh really? Why not Bogut or Okafor or some other good man to man defender.
Its garbage the way people try to favor Horford and hook him up with superstars so he can be a winner.
Why isn’t focus on the stars we already have and complement them an option.
But go to the draft and hope the guy turns into a star before Horford gets old. This is stupid.
But I know some fans would love nothing more than to see Joe Johnson in a Bulls uniform.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
10:10 pm
Does Phil Jackson not have a high BB IQ because he’s not on the court? How about Adelman, Nelson, Lenny, Doc? Catch my point? He knows how the game is supposed to be played, he just can’t apply it to himself, comprende’?
I’ve coached some guys like that. BB minds. Knew where everybody on the court should be. How to beat every team we played. Incredible insight. Then when they got on the court, everything they said on the sideline left them, and they would play a terrible game, going against what they said on the sideline.
That’s what I mean.
=========
Like Josh Smith trying to post up Bosh or Love and he ends up getting pushed off the block.
Or Horford twisting his ankle on a floating jumper.
Or Horford having worse FTA total than Marvin Williams despite getting more minutes and more touches.
Jamal
January 17th, 2012
10:11 pm
and I bet you cant guess who I am?
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
10:12 pm
Now of course the Bucks stage a comeback with both Leuer and Bogut on the pine.
Jamal
January 17th, 2012
10:12 pm
Ok Ill give you a hint
Im either ken or sautee…
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
10:14 pm
Jennings 2 points last game. 30+ this game. SG of the year.
X factor
January 17th, 2012
10:15 pm
Ok Jamal you got to be Sautee because ken is clearly an idiot and you like to compliment yourself for being the most clever of all the trolls and identities you use.
The only one you fool is the one you see in the mirror.
The Al Horford Ballad
January 17th, 2012
10:17 pm
Ding dong the witch is dead the witch is dead the witch is dead ding dog the wicked witch is dead.
X factor
January 17th, 2012
10:20 pm
Some lawyer ought to make Al pay back all that money by prorating (12pts 8 rbs / down time) – draft number.
Humanitary Aid
January 17th, 2012
10:22 pm
OK guys knock it off with the anti Al Hoford stuff. OK?
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
10:23 pm
You know SLB under Horford’s draftexpress page, it says his best case scenario is Emeka Okafor.
And after a slow start, Al was averaging 14.3 and 8 the last 7 games before he was injured. He had 4 multi-block games already. His last 2 games he had 4 assists and 6 assists. Shooting 56.5% in January, and 85.7% from the line. And he was mister consistency, and was at least trying to play more in the post.
Those are decent numbers. But nothing compared to the monster numbers Josh has been giving us 7 of the last 8 games. That dude has been on fire.
But Horford was consistently above average. Josh said he and Al were the bash brothers. I like it. Hope the Hawks can replace Al with somebody decent.
And did ya’ll notice MC’s rather negative assesment of the Hawks without Al? Lottery or 1st round loss, anything else unlikely in his words.
SteveW
January 17th, 2012
10:26 pm
The Hawks are going to have to fish or cut bait with Josh at some point. Unrestricted FA after next season. I hope they are already in talks to re-sign him.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
10:30 pm
SteveW
No one’s saying Iso Bogut every game every play like Milwaukee tries to.
But SteveW you watched the game. Does Leuer also remind you of Horford? High IQ early, low ceiling, worse body for rebounding but more fluid jumper and more range.
Would you give his touches and corner spot to Marvin? It’s come to the point where Marvin is playing like a paraplegic.
If Leuer does nothing but draw PFs to guard him in corner. Then he’s better than Marvin.
Andrew Bogut takes Jason Collins spot
Josh Smith takes Al Horford’s spot (like he has been)
Jon Leuer takes Marvin Williams spot
And we get bigger. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not saying Iso Bogut every game every play like Milwaukee tries.
Give him Jason Collins or Pachulia’s touches or Horford’s touches. Give it to Joe, Josh, Jeff and play off them. Duh
the jury has returned a verdict
January 17th, 2012
10:32 pm
Its funny how in an effort to make Al look good people will scan his entire pro career looking for 5 or 10 minute segments where he made 2 blocks or had 2 good days across a 5 year career. Then they take those 2 good days and say, ” see, during this period Al was our most productive player.
Cut that chit out.
The man has 39 playoff game and has been a liability, Add up his numbers in big games and you will shake your head.
dont pick out minute capsule of Al’s career to try and present a false image of his work. Look at the whole picture.
AND STOP TRYING TO MAKE AL LOOK GOOD BY ATTACKING JOSH.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
10:32 pm
” Me Was anyone creating doubles for Bogut to get some easy buckets or what? It feels like Bogut should get zero iso touches ala Tyson Chandler but in Milwaukee he has to draw doubles and be “the man”?
Milwaukee fan 1 – I’ve been saying this for years. I have no idea why they run any plays for dude at all.
Milwaukee fan 2 – Sometimes he has a match-up advantage and sometimes he doesn’t. The strategy of pumping it in to him in the post should be match-up dependent. It shouldn’t be a philosophy. Although the match-up might have to be near ideal now, because his post offense has regressed from a couple years ago.”
realgm – GT: Bucks v. Nuggets at 7:00pm CST (Undefeated at home) – page 32
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
10:40 pm
Miscellaneous
- Zaza Pachulia : voted one of the toughest players in the NBA by GMs
- Josh Smith : Tied at 3rd with Dwight Howard for most athletic in the National Basketball Association – McGrady “I’m in his ear, he’s too athletic, He can get 10 FTA per game.”
- Al Horford : Rnd 1, Pick 3 in 2007 by Hawks
Best Case: Emeka Okafor
Worst Case: Ronny Turiaf
-draftexpress
Now we know why people slurp on Horford. His measuring stick was Okafor and Turiaf.
cdog
January 17th, 2012
10:46 pm
convince dwight howard to come home to the hawks now. howard would be the missing piece to the puzzle.its hard to believe rick sund has had al horford a center instead of a power forward for the past years, unbelievable!
the jury has returned a verdict
January 17th, 2012
10:47 pm
“And did ya’ll notice MC’s rather negative assesment of the Hawks without Al? Lottery or 1st round loss”
I dont get it either. What will we miss and not be able to replace? the 12 pts or the 8 rebounds?
In the play offs what will we miss? the 10 pts or the 7 rebounds?
REALLY?
How hard is that to replace?
the jury has returned a verdict
January 17th, 2012
10:47 pm
Al is the same whether at center or powerfoward.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 17th, 2012
10:57 pm
There’s nobody they can sign who is going to make a huge impact, unless Rasheed Wallace or Joel Przybilla have a hot tub time machine at home. If they are going to upgrade the center position, it has to be via trade. If Sund hasn’t reached out to New Orleans to see what it takes to get Kaman — a solid center with an expiring contract — he isn’t doing his job.
Bigman needed
January 17th, 2012
10:57 pm
Bogut finished with 2pts tonight and his team was crushed at home. Let’s hear the excuses.
Crazy_88
January 17th, 2012
11:02 pm
I think Mgmt really didn’t expect for the lockout to end and now that there is a shortened season, they aren’t invested in winning a ring this yr. They screwed up and overpayed JJ thinking he was going to take his game to the next level and he is what he is – they spent the rest on Josh & Horford and now they are stuck with a better than average NBA team but not championship caliber. They have no choice but to trade either JJ, Josh, Horford or have a fire sell and start from scratch.
WIth Horford out, the spotlight is going to burn only hotter for Joe Johnson – mgmt is going to amnesty Joe Johnson regardless If they make the post season or not. Maybe If they make it past the first round they will judge that as an accomplishment..but I doubt it…the only way JJ can save himself is to take this team pass the second round and even then mgmt will probably look to clear his salary from their books.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 17th, 2012
11:11 pm
“I think folk confuse skill and vision for IQ. He has great vision and above average skills to complement outstanding athleticism and defensive instincts. With that package, if he truly had great Bball IQ, would there still be issues with his poor decision making?”
It is possible to have a great understanding of the game and still make bad decisions because you overestimate your own ability. I have always felt this is actually Josh’s problem.
Grandad
January 17th, 2012
11:12 pm
Under the precepts laid out by MC:
I wish to pose this question;
Do we trade Josh now ?
* His trade value will never be higher.
* He could get us a legit Center in return ?
* Do we have the jack to re-sign Josh when his contract expires ?
* Will he maintain his current production ?
_________________________________________________
Answer to MC;
Yes, we will make the playoffs as we are currently constructed.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 17th, 2012
11:12 pm
“Bogut for Heisman! Bogut for President! Bogut for UN General Secty! Bogut for Peace in the Middle East! Bogut for Santa Claus! Trade the whole team for these two, they can win it all 2 on 5!”
LMAO at that entire post
doc
January 17th, 2012
11:16 pm
najeh:
It is possible to have a great understanding of the game and still make bad decisions because you overestimate your own ability. I have always felt this is actually Josh’s problem.
amen to this.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 17th, 2012
11:18 pm
Based on what I know about Sund and the DASG, I am expecting them to sit on their hands, hope to squeak into the playoffs with the current roster as a 7 or 8 seed, hope for Al to come back, and then use his injury as an excuse if (when) the Hawks lose in the first round to Miami or Chicago. I can very easily picture them suckering themselves into thinking that if Al gets healthy for the playoffs, he can provide the needed boost to upset one of those two teams.
MattP
January 17th, 2012
11:20 pm
Grandad,
I agree, we will make the playoffs for sure the way we are constructed without Horford but the question is, will we make it out of the first round. It really depends on who we match up against but unless Zaza has a bunch of good games in the playoff series I don’t see us making it out.
Dept. Of Reality: Suck
January 17th, 2012
11:20 pm
Bogut finished with 2pts tonight and his team was crushed at home. Let’s hear the excuses.
Bogut’s a 4th or 5th option on a contender. Ala Tyson Chandler. Iso Bogut/Chandler = Garbage team.
jr
January 17th, 2012
11:26 pm
The Hawks need to make a trader for Howard or another stud C i love horford but he would be more effective with at PF. Howard would help this year and the future… Look C.Howard PF.Horford SF.J Smith SG. Joe PG. Teague or Hinrich i know it looks impossible but im sure it can be done just look at miami…. show Howard this line up and how would it not draw him to Atlanta I would take that line up over any in the league… im just throughin it out there and i think it would bring more revenue to the Hawks Franchise and fans… some draft pics marvin williams and get joe to reconstruct his contract to make Howard fit long term… i know i would do it to win Championships…
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 17th, 2012
11:33 pm
Horford’s defense:
He’d be better next to Dwight Howard… Oh thanks nobody knew that.
Except Dwight+Smith needs a shooter and Horford is not a shooter. He’d be fighting those 2 for 2 point shots. Or even worse move Smith to the perimeter in the corner.
Grandad
January 17th, 2012
11:34 pm
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Slimjr
January 18th, 2012
12:01 am
YESTERDAY! YESTERDAY! YESTERDAY!
kwooden
January 18th, 2012
12:27 am
Just watched the Raptors game again and for anyone that says the HAWKS are better without Horford is just a hater. Marvin can’t play like he did and expect for his team to win another game! We’re lucky that Josh was hitting his shots and Joe was playing the way he should. Tomorrow night could get really ugly if Marvin and Tracy don’t come to play some basketball!
GO HAWKS!!
SteveW
January 18th, 2012
12:31 am
Reading up on Horford’s surgery – Yuck!
They suture the tendons or muscles or whatever to the bone in the arm – many times making holes the arm to secure the tendons/muscles.
One Cambridge study said it took 8.5 months on average for an athlete to get back to his pre-injury level. We may be fooling ourselves – or being fooled by ASG into believing Al will be back this season.
There are Drs. on this blog who might could help with the prognosis.
doc
January 18th, 2012
12:39 am
steve w, muscle has no integrity when trying to suture it in place. it easily tears as well when there is the slightest movement. i would expect the rehab to go very slowly. it all depends on where, what and how much tissue was “torn” to know what to expect but it is a very tenuous connection they make to attach flimsy muscle to bone. of course there is the problem of muscle atrophy on top of the precarious attachments that has to be built back. i am sure they have very sophisticated measures to attempt to stimulate the muscle but returning to functional status could be very hard in a short time.
SteveW
January 18th, 2012
12:39 am
Grandad – The available Centers are slim pickings right now. I don’t think the Jazz would trade Jefferson for Josh, they’re loaded at PF. Most teams are really deficient in bigs. I really can’t find a fit right now that improves the Hawks in moving Josh, and that I think that team might be interested in moving.
I do see why Sund pushed so hard for Josh/Kanter. Kanter’s been garbage to this point pretty much, but he is only 19, and playing in a log jam. But he is 6-11 267 with skills, and would have allowed you to move Al to PF, with an athletic (semi) big at C. And of course he would have saved ASG 7+ Million dollars this year in the process.
You got any suggestions or possibilities? Again, I really can’t find one.
And if Josh keeps playing like this, you probably just need to offer him 15 mill per year for 5 years and forget about it. The Hawks can afford it. But it means you keep the core intact yet longer, unless you deal Al at some point.
SteveW
January 18th, 2012
12:41 am
Doc – Thanks! Good stuff
hawks fan down under
January 18th, 2012
12:43 am
only time will tell but really Sund HAS to do something. The main reason is because LD clearly doesn’t like Zaza so we won’t get much out of him. I wouldnt be surprised to see Zaza moved for another C
doc
January 18th, 2012
12:45 am
steve w, i wish i could be more optimistic, i tend to think hinrich will have a problem getting up to speed as well. these injuries are hard to forecast from afar because you really need to be there to know how extensive the damage was.
SteveW
January 18th, 2012
12:46 am
When I say the Hawks can afford to offer Josh 15 mill per year, for 5 years, after next season – I’m looking at:
JJ – 20-25 mill
Al – 12 mill
Teague – Probably about 6 mill per when his tender is up
ZaZa if we re-sign him – probably 5 mill per, because bigs are so tough to come by.
So with Josh, at our worst, we would have 60 mill committed to 5 guys. Get some first picks contributing, and the “junk” signings, and your at 10 + million for 8 more guys, and a solid core.
Marvin’s coming off the books eventually – unless he pulls a Koncak.
SteveW
January 18th, 2012
12:47 am
Grandad – But I haven’t looked real hard either on that Josh for a C thing you talked about.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 18th, 2012
1:20 am
I think Teague is going to end up costing more than $6 million per year. I would think he’ll be in line for Mike Conley money if he continues to improve, which is $8 million per year for five years.
The thing about any future salary calculations for the Hawks is that eventually Joe is going to be traded or (more likely) amnestied. The DASG knows this, which is why they haven’t used the amnesty on Marvin. So extending Josh (or someone they acquire in exchange for Josh) really shouldn’t be based on Joe’s salary three or four years from now.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 18th, 2012
1:22 am
As for Zaza, they extended him for $4.75 million over 4 years in 2009, and his numbers over the course of his new contract are lower. If anything they should be able to keep him at a discount, but hopefully they will have drafted/signed a better backup center before then.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 18th, 2012
1:34 am
Joe is aging quickly and is a waste if we dont go deep into the playoffs.
Lets say we lose Smith and Joe because Horford fans get their wish. Lets say Harrison Barnes takes 4 years to become a bit better than Luol Deng or Granger.
What free agents would come here? Al Horford would be 29 years old. Teague would be 27.
Stop BSing seasons away talking about superstars. THe future is now. We lead the division, and the East is wide open now.
Al Horford is not the future, and will become Tony Battie as he ages. Get out of here with that crap.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 18th, 2012
1:47 am
Presumably you guys want centers younger than Smith?
——-
Yup Bucks sounding like they’ll blow it up.
Grandad
January 18th, 2012
1:59 am
For SteveW and for doc:
1st:
Josh for a Big / Legit Center.
Who I had in mind:
* Bynum – my thinking that LAL could go the route of using Josh
to lure D.Howard to the Lakers.
* Pau Gasol – ditto the above ^ rationale.
* The two aforementioned possibilities would include Cap’n Kirk
as the Lakers are desperate for a pg. / right now !
* A 3rd possibility would be attempt to pry Monroe from the Pistons.
We would come out on the short end of the stick so I would ask for
their # 1 pick as well; or possibly exchange our 1st for their 1st.
That would put us / the Hawks in position to draft Thomas Robinson.
* One other would be a blockbuster of sorts where we would obtain;
Spencer Hawes [center] plus, Jrue Holiday & Andre Iguodala from Philly.
note – I do not know or have not looked at how this could be pulled off ?
*** [I love Jrue Holiday and believe he could play the [2] alongside Teaguer]
-which would open up a whole nuther can o’ worms-
_____________________________________________
2nd:
Now for the next topic:
My son had labrum surgery.
At the time he was a collegiate athlete. *(basketball)
I do not know the differences between labrum surgery
and Al’s surgery.
What I do know is; my son basically could do nothing for 6 months.
he could not even run for fear he would fall and catch himself;
which could perhaps destroy all that the surgery had repaired.
Then, it was 6 more months of rehab & conditioning;
totalling one full year before he was released to compete.
I cannot imagine Al coming back this year.
Grandad
January 18th, 2012
2:01 am
* labrum = shoulder
Grandad
January 18th, 2012
2:10 am
SteveW
The more I have thought about Boris Diaw;
the more I like the idea of bringing him back.
[for one year]
-perfect fit-
I posted this on the last blog but did not hang around for the feedback.
JaeEvolution
January 18th, 2012
2:26 am
Marvin for Diaw straight up. Big enough to play 4, good enough handles to play 3, unselfish, smart player.
Atl 2nd round pick for Erden from Cleveland. Still have Phx 2nd rounder mid 30’s for 7 footer, long, mobile, active.
Best we can do a cheap price.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 18th, 2012
2:28 am
Boris Diaw, not a true center. A soft jump shooter tweeber. A shorter fatter Horford = perfect fit? That’s a terrible fit.
JaeEvolution
January 18th, 2012
2:29 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z_WqbddDh4
jabbar
January 18th, 2012
3:08 am
I think Drew is lying his face off infront of tv cameras. I dont think he wants to play tmac anymore so he goes on and tells people tmacs back didnt pullup. Tmac says thats not true by saying they need to unleash me.
Just Joe
January 18th, 2012
6:14 am
Marvin Williams to Toronto for L. Barbosa.
Pull off that trade first, and then having $16M in expiring contracts (Hinrich and Barbosa) gives you better trade chips to go out and get a big if one becomes available.
vava74
January 18th, 2012
6:30 am
From previous blog:
KevinM,
Stop being an @ss.
Almost everyone around here knows that my native language is portuguese (I follow the Hawks from across the pond since the eighties), so I am bound to make a mistake or two when typing in a rush.
The fact that you came back at me starting with something completely un-related to basketball just shows your lack of arguments.
Yes, Ivan was very good against the Wolves and a major factor, but there were several possessions in which Collins guarded Love and pushed him to play away from the basket where he was destroying us.
Collins was also effective keeping Pekovic’s massive body away from the paint, which is something that was giving us some problems.
It was not by a mere chance that a guy who scored 2 points and got 3 rebounds in 13 minutes had a ± of +10.
You simply select not to see that, as I am sure that you did not register in your “offense oriented mind” what Collins did to Howard last season both during the regular season and the playoffs.
Sure, Howard got his points and his rebounds, but he made him work for all his shots, breaking the rhythm of ORL’s offense and allowing the rest of the guys to concentrate on playing the shooters.
Look again at the link and enlighten yourself a bit on Collins role against Minny:
http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20120114&game=MINATL
If I am not wrong you were one of the biggest Jamal supporters, which for me is telling: you don’t know how to watch, understand and interpret the game.
So Mullens and Speights are better than Collins??
I don’t negate that both are talented and obviously much more offensively gifted, however, talent, role and production are two completely different things.
Collins is – as I emphasized – a situational player, a specialist.
Mullens is a SF trapped in a 7′ frame: his game is strictly facing the basket from 15′ and beyond when we need girth in the block.
Speights is a decent prospect which has showed flashes of low post scoring but has been severely hampered by injuries and bad attitude and has never showed ANY inclination to play any thing resembling D.
Good luck going against Howard with either (just check last night’s game).
vava74
January 18th, 2012
6:31 am
And on the Marvin – Diaw swap… where can we sign the petition?
Should we contribute towards the plane fare to get the deal done?
prison nike
January 18th, 2012
6:39 am
I think we’ve come to an impasse like the Sixers did in 2001. They were relegated to 2nd round ceilings (sound familiar right) for two straight years. Kukoc and Ratliff could only take them so far while being fan favorites of that city.
So the trade that took them to the next level was: Mutumbo and Mcleod for Kukoc, Ratliff, Nazr, and filler. It was an outstanding trade for the Hawks. That’s beside the point. The problem for Philadelphia was the Lakers team that was one of the greatest teams of the 2000s.
But guess what, there is no great team out west this year unless you count OKC which we have the athletes to counteract them if not nullify in a 7 game series. I would love to have a player like Kaman, problem is I think N.O. would like to sign him long term and we have no pieces to offer for him.
So my revised trade…
Bogut and Ilyasova for Zaza and Horford. This my friends takes us to Conference Finals.
PEDRO EL GITANO
January 18th, 2012
6:48 am
Creo que hay que fichar a un pivot,pero los que creen que sin Horford podemos jugar la loteria fuera de playoffs son unos ignorantes.Horford es un jugador correcto,nada mas;y se lesiono por cabeza hueca por cierto.
Section 303
January 18th, 2012
8:03 am
I don’t see any reason for the Hawks to make a move right now. By the time the trade deadline arrives, we’ll know what we have. Hawks will have gone through a road trip and played tough opponets. If the team is a mess at that point, make a move. If the team looks like it could make some noise in the postseason, possibly make a move. No need to do anything right now.
Also, tonight will give us an idea where we stand. Would be nice to have some actual fans in the building. Crowds the past few games have been pathetic. If you aren’t going to any games, don’t complain. Get in the arena! Don’t want to hear about money issues….tickets are cheap and easy to get.
Section 303
January 18th, 2012
8:05 am
vava74, Boris Diaw? Am I reading your posts right? You want Boris Diaw? I’ll pass on the fat guy. He is not that good. Thought we knew that already.
vava74
January 18th, 2012
8:48 am
Section,
I grant that Diaw is not remarkable BUT he is better than Marvin!
He would give us some versatility and play making ability from the wing at the SF-PF slots and even some spot minutes at the C slot.
What’s not to like to a possible deal like this?
I think that playing for a playoff bound team like us would also motivate him to get into better shape and produce.
The Truth
January 18th, 2012
8:58 am
All this chatter about trading Hawk players is beyond excessive. What about upgrading some of these blogger posts? It has been the pit on here lately. With these repetitive suggestions stated over and over again (approaching a million times), my finger is getting numb from hitting the stroll key so often.
I find it amazing someone can exactly produce so much of the same stuff in so many different variations, under an endless number of names on a daily bases.
Power of persuasion, you thing have, JEDI KNIGHT, YOU ARE NOT! PROFESSIONAL HELP, YOU REALLY NEED!
The Truth
January 18th, 2012
9:02 am
*Power of persuasion, you think you have, JEDI KNIGHT, YOU ARE NOT! PROFESSIONAL HELP, YOU REALLY NEED
Jump Shooter X
January 18th, 2012
9:03 am
When will Stackhouse play MC ?
j konkack
January 18th, 2012
9:04 am
seeing how the nba playoffs last 3 months, al could be back if the hawks go deep
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2012
9:05 am
I don’t want Diaw if he comes with french pastries for every long-time blogger.
I also think it is possible to have a good BBall IQ, you know, somewhere in between great and poor. We too often get caught up in extremes. Jeff Teague can’t be Devin Harris, he has to be Kevin Johnson. Josh Smith can’t have a good bball IQ, it is either off the charts high or in the toilet low. IMO, I think Josh has a good Bball IQ, neither tremendously high nor outrageously low. Basically, nothing worth discussing. In fact, I think the same is true of the vast majority of the Hawks. Nothing worth admiration for any of them (IMO).
Fundamentals
January 18th, 2012
9:09 am
I pray we never see steven jackson or Boris diaw in a hawks uni again!
I honestly think we need a big for the playoff run, but don’t see a big trade piece out there. Sign a GA or D-league player to contribute like Ivan.
Kirk will be an assert on this team as a backup or beside Teague w Joe at sf.
Marvin needs to get back to the aggressiveness he showed early.
Horfords injury proves there was friction and chemistry issues but for now there is no levity quality trade worth losing Al or Kirk over.
doc
January 18th, 2012
9:13 am
gdad your son had more of what hinrich had which is why i am surprised that they think he will be back so soon as 2 or 3 months. very few have what al had ever in life much less basketball. it is a very unusual thing therefore less predictable. i have heard of it in football, just the same it is usually a long rehab. it is a very different beast to deal with.
Fundamentals
January 18th, 2012
9:14 am
If we get Diaw again Woodson will get ejected from his next 5 games for having uncontrollable laughter every time he thinks about that guy stinking up our locker room again.
Fundamentals
January 18th, 2012
9:18 am
I like how the TEAM is gelling and playing their roles. That wins championships, just ask the Spurs or Rockets. Let’s see how the team reacts to tougher competition before jumping to conclusions.
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2012
9:19 am
Fundamentals, the Hawk I had the hardest time cheering for was Antoine Walker. I HATED him in a Celtics uniform and throughout his career and did a few dry heaves when the Hawks acquired him. But that was one of the ways that I learned to focus on the team and NOT the players. Players come and go but (with few exceptions) the team belongs to the city. None of my Hawk gear has a player’s name on it, same with the Falcons. Individual players are a secondary story to the team… and that horrific tenure when I had to actually root for Antoine Walker helped me come to that realization.
Fundamentals
January 18th, 2012
9:25 am
Amen Astro Joe.
SteveW
January 18th, 2012
9:33 am
Najeh – With Teague, I kinda was thinking Mike Conley – but a little less. I had seen Conley was making 6.5m this season – I didn’t know his contract was so back loaded until I checked on it.
And with ZaZa I was just going on the price of Bigs in the NBA right now – very scarce quantity.
Kwame Brown got 7 million. 7 million per season!!
So I actually thought ZaZa might fetch 5 mill per for 3 more seasons.
Grandad – I like those trades – I don’t know if any would work with the other teams, as you said. Pistons may want to build around Monroe, he’s younger etc. And I don’t think Philly is getting rid of Holiday at this point, even for Josh.
But I like the trades.
Gasol for Josh? Maybe – but I don’t think the Lakers are getting rid of Bynum now. He’s playing to well.
General Info – Bogut makes 12.1m this season, 12.4? next, and 13.5 m the next. So he is currently making per season than Al.
Najeh – And I doubt ASG takes the hit and amnesties JJ. If their paying for him, they are going to play him. These are the guys selling 2nd round picks for cash.
SteveW
January 18th, 2012
9:34 am
“more” per season than Al
SteveW
January 18th, 2012
9:34 am
AJ – My thoughts exactly.
Section 303
January 18th, 2012
9:40 am
vava, I don’t agree. Diaw is not better than Marvin. I actually think Marvin has been pretty solid this season. He has never been more aggressive on the floor and he has come up with some nice hustle plays. Granted, he is made of glass and still does not finish well, but he brings more to the team than Diaw.
And, I just do not want to watch a fat guy play each night. This is the NBA. Christ, have a little respect for yourself!
tony
January 18th, 2012
9:41 am
They shouldn’t do anything.
just SHOOT me
January 18th, 2012
9:43 am
Michael Cunningham for President!
just SHOOT me
January 18th, 2012
9:46 am
Face it people, the Hawks are done in 2012. We can go out and sign some backup center or keep the team we have. Neither will matter. Even if we make the playoffs we’ll end up most likely facing either Chicago or Miami and get swept in the first round. I say we battle it out and play hard while looking ahead to the future. You can’t lose someone of Horford’s calibur and expect to do anything.
doc
January 18th, 2012
9:46 am
the ability of this organization to use the amnesty is lower than using a trade exception. just not going to happen. jj retires a hawk or is traded simple as that. he might redo his contract like pierce did but that is as close as we get to improving his contract hit to bigger picture of cap total andhow croppling it will be.
gdad why would philly do a trade to put them behind us when they are better than us now? pacers and philly > hawks.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 18th, 2012
9:47 am
The last team to try to play Diaw on the perimeter was the Atlanta Hawks. For those of you who may be new to the team, that experiment failed miserably, despite Billy Knight trying to convince us that Diaw was the French Scottie Pippen. Diaw is, to my knowledge, the only NBA player with a twitter account dedicated to his boobs. I would prefer to avoid him in any case, but especially if the plan is to give him minutes at SF.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 18th, 2012
9:51 am
” i have heard of it in football, just the same it is usually a long rehab. it is a very different beast to deal with.”
Elvis Dumervil of the Broncos had the same injury as Al in preseason and missed the entire season (5 months total).
Al ain’t coming back this year.
Ra'mon
January 18th, 2012
9:56 am
Najeh, I’m with you. I’d rather give Ivan MORE minutes than to give Diaw ANY minutes.
vava74
January 18th, 2012
10:02 am
Diaw is lazy but very talented.
Look at this year’s game log.
He posted good numbers against “spotlight teams” which motivated him: @ home vs MIA and twice at the Madison against NYK (there was a poor performance @ MIA on a blow out).
Since the rest of the schedule was mostly disinteresting, he did not come to play.
IF, he came motivated to be in playoffs and be part of a good run he could work 25/28 minutes per depending on match ups spread around on all 3 front court positions.
I am not talking about starting him at the SF slot.
I would strongly consider JJ at the SF slot with McGrady, Green and Hinrich splitting minutes at the SG slot.
vava74
January 18th, 2012
10:03 am
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3724/gamelog;_ylt=Auc1n0yKS.V5QiWS9v306rzZPKB4
Trojan
January 18th, 2012
10:05 am
In Al’s absence, we need a tough, defensive minded center. He don’t need offensive skills, just defense for a few minutes of contribution each night.
HoosierHawk
January 18th, 2012
10:07 am
Dallas wants to get expiring deals to go for Dwight in 2012. Might they take Kirk for either Haywood or Marion? Marion > Marvin and Haywood is a legit rotation center. Or would they take Marvin too with Kirk for both?
I, for the record, don’t think blowing up the team is necessary, because I think Joe and Josh are both stepping it up and I don’t think we would get equal value for either in a trade. I also like Kirk. Jusssayin
Sautee
January 18th, 2012
10:12 am
“In Al’s absence, we need a tough, defensive minded center. He don’t need offensive skills, just defense for a few minutes of contribution each night.”
Actually, we have needed that for 3 years now, and that’s WITH Al.
That’s the kind of help Horford was asking for.
Dukester
January 18th, 2012
10:15 am
KEITH BENSON VS JASON COLLINS
I wonder what the hawks saw in this kid that made them draft him and cut him. Now let me say I only saw him play on youtube. But what I do know his he average 2.5 blocks throughout is college career. I also know he is a little under weight at 230lbs. But you cant tell me this child could not start over Jason Collins and also be a cheaper more athletic option?? If you guys think Josh will be able to compete on both ends of the court defending the paint for the whole season your crazy. Does anyone know why they cut Keith Benson?
kwooden
January 18th, 2012
10:21 am
Right now they should cut Sloan and pickup Benson, which is probably what they’re waiting to do once Kirk is back and productive.
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2012
10:34 am
Dukester, my guess is that the Hawks will literally have a handful of practices because of this compressed schedule. And the young bigs (Benson and Rolle) would have needed significant practice time to be game ready (from both a skill perspective and physically). That is why I think they opted for a much older set of players this year. And with the likelihood that all players on the roster may need to play this season, I think they felt they didn’t have the flexibility to send guys to the D-League this seaqson. Honestly, I have no issues with the approach… and would still prefer seeing an old head added to replace Horfrod rather than a project player.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 18th, 2012
10:42 am
“In Al’s absence, we need a tough, defensive minded center. He don’t need offensive skills, just defense for a few minutes of contribution each night.”
Actually, we have needed that for 3 years now, and that’s WITH Al.
That’s the kind of help Horford was asking for.
========
Ironic because:
- Smith can’t play the 3 on offense.
- Horford shot is easily bothered by length in his shooting pocket or face (ala Marvin)
- Horford failed to be a more effective player at the 4 (Smith,Horford,Zaza/Collins)
- Smith then asked for a shooter SF/PF (Jamal wasn’t returning because he makes us smaller and less effective on defense,boards) better than him (enter Vlad)
- Horford did not get a center because then Smith would be the best shooter in the frontcourt
- Both requests pushed Marvin out of the lineup
- Marvin is still starting
Chemistry issues indeed.
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2012
10:47 am
Assuming the old head can run up and down the court for at least 20 minutes AND in consecutive games without passing out.
just SHOOT me
January 18th, 2012
10:49 am
Is anyone familiar with the Chinese standout Will Lavigne who plays in the Oklahoma D-League? He’s been impressing quite a few folks. He’s at least worth a look.
Ra'mon
January 18th, 2012
10:54 am
Doesn’t it seem like with the loss of Jamal, and now Horford, Josh and Joe are playing at a higher level, because they’re able to have more touches to be in better rhythm?
Ra'mon
January 18th, 2012
10:58 am
You know to be serious, if in shape, Rasheed Wallace would be a huge addition to the Hawks. His stretch game, would go great with Josh and Joe posting up, and Teague penetrating. And Wallace is one of the most underrated defending bigs in the history of the league. He’s an anchor on the block. I would say cut Sloan, and offer him a spot.on the roster. They can use Jerry Stackhouse to recruit him, lol.
KevinM
January 18th, 2012
10:59 am
“vava74
January 18th, 2012
6:30 am
From previous blog:
KevinM,
Stop being an @ss.”
You take it personally when I had no clue what you are referencing…..mistype or not, all I asked was why was Collins starting? Is it your agenda to tell others how to think? Get over yourself.
I will say it again; if it weren’t for Sund, Collins would not be in the league. Is that good for him? Yes, it is. Does he do things good?
Every once in a while….you can admire that, but being part of the best players in basketball, shouldn’t you do good things every once in a while?
Did he just shut down Minnesota on his own? No, and neither did Ivan.
LD put him in there to see if he could do anything about him driving the lane…..obviously it worked. Again, I asked why was Collins starting against Toronto? All you had to say was because of his performance the previous night. You act like it is obvious and everyone is watching every minute of these games.
A simple response to a question works better than your approach, but you do as you see fit.
I still say the Hawks should have a better option in the middle to make a run, but if you think Collins is enough, good for you.
Collins does very little to build enthusiasm for an ECF run.
Melvin
January 18th, 2012
11:03 am
HoosierHawk,
Why should the Hawks (or any team trying to be competitive) help the Mavs land Howard? The Mavs will have to amnesty either Marion or Haywood and renounce some of their free agents if they want to land Howard and Deron Williams this summer. So why not let them gut their team to land two superstar players and sign their other guys to reasonable contracts. Besides, Haywood contract is back loaded so the Hawks probably don’t want any parts of that considering that JJ contract increases every year along with possibly resigning Josh.
Rufus1
January 18th, 2012
11:05 am
-Andrew Bogut
Drafted: Rnd 1, Pick 1 in 2005 by Bucks
Best Case: Brad Miller Meets Vlade Divac
Worst Case: Chris Kaman
That sounds like HOF to me…
KevinM
January 18th, 2012
11:06 am
How about no more former Hawks coming back? That makes the most sense.
You bring Rasheed in here, you basically accept the concept of not knowing if/when he will decide to play.
I’ll admit, I wanted to bring Shaq in here, especially if it was for a Marvin swap and $5M off the cap. I thought he was in shape enough in Cleveland to want to make another push. Based on the results, it would have been money not worth spending, but since we are throwing it away on Marvin, it would have been cheaper to bring him here no matter the results.
Point is, if you aren’t motivated to get it done in Boston, you probably aren’t coming to Atlanta more motivated.
I’m still surprised T-Mac came here to join the bench. I still think he has something left, but that remains to be seen if he is together mentally.
Melvin
January 18th, 2012
11:10 am
If Diaw contract expiries at the end of this season (or next), I would definitely approve the Marvin for Diaw trade. At least it would help the Hawks get rid of Marvin 1 or possibly 2 seasons earlier. Besides, Diaw is a serviceable player although he’s overweight. Maybe we could have him workout with Josh or Collins in the offseason to shed some pounds…LOL
Ra'mon
January 18th, 2012
11:11 am
KevinM, what’s the difference in paying Sloan the minimum or paying Rasheed Wallace the minimum? When Kirk returns you will have three pgs on the roster, so what use is Sloan? In the playoffs Rasheed will play as much as you need him to. From now until then, its just him getting into shape. Easily right now, an out of shape Rasheed is still the best FA center.
vava74
January 18th, 2012
11:12 am
KevinM,
The comment about Collins starting was not the only comment about him that you posted.
There were several others before.
Collins starting is not a Collins’ related problem, it’s an LD related problem.
MattP
January 18th, 2012
11:16 am
Ra’mon,
Sloan is on Rookie Min and Wallace will be on Vet Min, that is the difference.
KevinM
January 18th, 2012
11:22 am
Ra’mon, Rasheed’s minimum and Sloan’s minimum are not the same. If you said Stack, then yes, they’re closer to the same, provided Rasheed would settle for the minimum. You think he has something left to help this team? He didn’t play last year and wasn’t in shape for Boston.
He sounds like AI to me..he wants his minutes and don’t fill the role we need you for. I say no thanks as we need a defensive presence in the paint, like a D12 or Chandler. That’s where my mindset is.
And when Kirk comes back, its probably Sloan that is leaving…could be Stack also. You have to see if Kirk is ready to contribute as well.
I’m okay with that.
Our problems are the contributions of Zaza and Marvin more than the minimum guys. I’m still asking if Collins is the best we can do? Obviously, it is.
KevinM
January 18th, 2012
11:29 am
Vava,
Agree, Collins starting is a problem. Does he do more than Marvin? Well, depends on what your expectations are…..
I want Joe and Josh to have more legitimate help that can handle more than 13mpg in the paint. Works against some teams, but not consistently enough.
LD doesn’t have enough quality talent to deal with at the present.
The Truth
January 18th, 2012
11:32 am
It’s possible that Sloan is still on the team because Kirk is gone after this season or part of an upcoming trade.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 18th, 2012
11:34 am
“Doesn’t it seem like with the loss of Jamal and Horford, Josh and Joe are playing at a higher level, because they’re able to have more touches to be in better rhythm?
You know to be serious, if in shape, Rasheed Wallace would be a huge addition to the Hawks. His stretch game, would go great with Josh and Joe posting up, and Teague penetrating.”
———
Ram’on with all that analysis what does Horford bring? Basically we got a non ball hogging Jamal that can go 5 for 5 on some nights with few touches and that can rebound and defend SFs and some PFs. In Vlad Space Cade Radmanovic.
So that pisses me off that Horford said that Smith could play the 3 and move over for him and a center.
Knowing full well that if Smith could not be a 3 point shooter he’d be worthless and expendable. Or maybe people will say “Al’s IQ is not that high and he did not know that adding a non-stretch big man would push Smith to perimeter”.
Combine that with saying he could iso and create at the top of the key if the coach told him too and Horford is a d-bag.
His 2 All Star Games is the worst thing that could have happened to this franchise. We should have been searching for a true shooter and a true center the whole time. Instead we settled for a shooting-center. And he shoots because he is terrible off the dribble. Let someone else go fishing for a superstar to carry him.
ATL can’t play that game any longer. Make the move now. He’s a distraction from what complements the team (shooting PF with defensive ability, steals, blocks, and or rebounds + big defensive center, rebounds, defense).
————–
-Andrew Bogut
Drafted: Rnd 1, Pick 1 in 2005 by Bucks
Best Case: Brad Miller Meets Vlade Divac
Worst Case: Chris Kaman
Drafted: Rnd 1, Pick 3 in 2007 by Hawks
Best Case: Emeka Okafor
Worst Case: Ronny Turiaf
Sounds like same old Hawks to me…
—————–
ryan
January 18th, 2012
11:37 am
I heard something the Hawks were interested in Boris Diaw the former Hawk imo i wish we would look at Okafor .
burntpoptrtz
January 18th, 2012
11:39 am
Just saw where JSM mentioned Will Lavigne in the D league. I had read that he was going to play in France this year. The developmental league would be perfect for this kid. He’s got a great jump shot but needs to put on weight. He’s 6′9″ but when I saw him play at Nova, he onlly weighed 205. He scored 24 points though.
Rev in Tampa
January 18th, 2012
11:40 am
@kwooden – “Just watched the Raptors game again and for anyone that says the HAWKS are better without Horford is just a hater. Marvin can’t play like he did and expect for his team to win another game! We’re lucky that Josh was hitting his shots and Joe was playing the way he should. Tomorrow night could get really ugly if Marvin and Tracy don’t come to play some basketball!”
This is my feeling exactly. The Hawks need to find a replacement for Al if they are to have any hope of maintaining a 5th or 6th seed going into the playoffs. (I don’t see the Cavs, Knicks, Celts, or Bucks overtaking us if we find a decent replacement).
But if the Hawks simply ‘ride what they have’ or pick up a scrub from the garbage heap they will struggle to make the playoffs.
I say this because Al is very important to the Hawks. He fits what the Hawks are trying to do – be an athletic, active, physical (Drew’s word is physicality) team that uses its shooting ability to open up the inside game.
A big, lumbering, slow center does not fit that mold. Nor does a tall, quick, string-bean center. Al fits the niche quite snugly.
Without Al the Hawks will certainly struggle. I’m afraid we will find out just how much beginning tonight.
The Truth
January 18th, 2012
11:42 am
If the Hawks don’t balance the team with youth, they will soon resemble the Celtics and their current aging problems.
MattP
January 18th, 2012
11:46 am
The only way I would like Diaw is if the Hawks trade Marvin for him.
Rufus1
January 18th, 2012
11:50 am
The personal hate for certain players is crazy…
Some of you want to trade for WORSE PLAYERS, just to get rid of the player you don’t like…REALLY?
We need to save money, so we can sign this MAGICAL SUPERSTAR that doesn’t exist or won’t COME to ATL.
What we need is our COACH, to get these players, to play upto their potenial. We need our GM/ OWNERS to ensure our COACH has the right TALENT on the roster.
Buddy Grizzard
January 18th, 2012
11:50 am
High draft pick? MC has given up on this team.
KevinM
January 18th, 2012
11:52 am
Rev, you think Al has changed his stance about playing center or does he still want us to bring in a big man to take those minutes?
To me, when Al comes back, he will put more emphasis on saying slide me to the 4, Josh to the 3, and give us some defensive size…..but, I’m not sure there are any options to find that given the current salary structure we have here.
-If you can move Marvin and give someone a 2nd to go along with it for cash, do it!
-If you can move Zaza in the same manner, do it!
I don’t think you can any better for those 2.
You have to find a way to free up those 2 contracts. I’m convinced the rest of the bench can fill their roles.
Too many tweeners, Trade Horford
January 18th, 2012
11:54 am
You do realize that despite being a 6′10 European, Ersan Ilyasova can’t shoot and lost his starting position to some 7 footer named Jon Leuer.
Predictably.
Grandad
January 18th, 2012
11:56 am
It makes no sense that we did not keep Benson
and ay least pretend he was worthwhile;
that way he would be an asset now in order to be filler
in possible trades.
By cutting him we diminished his value.
Now if we were to bring him back, he is tarnished as a trade chip.
What good did it do to keep Sloan ?
We had this kid; [Benson]
even if we did not wish to keep him;
why not manage him as an asset so as to enhance his value.
Sund for GMOY
Grandad
January 18th, 2012
11:56 am
* at rather than *ay
vava74
January 18th, 2012
12:03 pm
Grandad
January 18th, 2012
11:56 am
Agreed Grandad. A second round pick with a discernible NBA skill could always fit in a trade.
Just Joe
January 18th, 2012
12:06 pm
You take any expiring contract for Marvin. Diaw? Sure, but Bobcats say they are not willing to take back a bad contract. Does Marvin have a bad contract?
vava74
January 18th, 2012
12:08 pm
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Marvin for Diaw is not possible. Not with ASG paying 1.4 million in luxury tax.
Mr Mojo
January 18th, 2012
12:11 pm
If this ownership doesn’t make a move they show how pathetic they truly are. You can’t lose your allstar center and say we gonna just go with what we got and feel good about it. Enough of this penny pinching crap go get some help for this team. they are not far off but need ownership and gm to help them out. Guys are out there for salary dumps guys like Okur went for a 2nd rd pick they can get someone if they want to spend the money.
jimmie jet
January 18th, 2012
12:19 pm
Stay with this lineup,but give Collins a little bit more playing time. Also it seems as though when Josh Smith drives to the basket in the early stages of the game his jump shot falls easier.
Section 303
January 18th, 2012
12:22 pm
vava, PHEW! That trade would not have been a good one. Never make a trade when you are giving up the better player.
I just think the Hawks should stay put. I still think this team could be alright. We’ll find out soon enough. Tonight will be a great test. I am really anxious for tonight’s game. Hope I’m not alone and we actually have fans in the seats.
Buddy Grizzard
January 18th, 2012
12:22 pm
1 Marcus Camby, POR
2 Dwight Howard, ORL
3 Andrew Bynum, LAL
4 Joakim Noah, CHI
5 Kevin Garnett, BOS
6 Carlos Boozer, CHI
7 Tyson Chandler, DAL
8 Tim Duncan, SA
9 Zaza Pachulia, ATL
10 Brendan Haywood, DAL
11 Tiago Splitter, SA
12 Marc Gasol, MEM
13 Zach Randolph, MEM
14 Aaron Gray, NO
15 Nene, DEN
16 DeJuan Blair, SA
Gerald Wallace, POR
18 Carmelo Anthony, NY
Al Horford, ATL
20 Kenyon Martin, DEN
21 Jeff Foster, IND
Roy Hibbert, IND
Serge Ibaka, OKC
24 Tony Battie, PHI
25 Lamar Odom, LAL
26 Josh Smith, ATL
27 Taj Gibson, CHI
28 Mike Miller, MIA
29 Nick Collison, OKC
30 Pau Gasol, LAL
31 Matt Barnes, LAL
32 Jared Jeffries, NY
33 Amare Stoudemire, NY
Nenad Krstic, BOS
35 Evan Turner, PHI
36 Chris Bosh, MIA 21
Josh McRoberts, IND
38 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL
39 Omer Asik, CHI
Thaddeus Young, PHI
KevinM
January 18th, 2012
12:23 pm
GDad, say Benson would have made the cut…..you think the odd man out would have been Ivan?
I see it as LD looking for guys who could help now and like someone else said earlier, his job is to get the most out of what he has.
Sund has to pull the trigger here, and soon before it gets more expensive.
Buddy Grizzard
January 18th, 2012
12:24 pm
Guess what stat is listed above. Hint: It’s rankings for all players who participated in the 2011 NBA playoffs. As you can see, Zaza is ranked 9th ahead of guys like Zach Randolph, Chris Bosh and Pau Gasol. What stat is this the 2011 playoff ranking for?
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2012
12:25 pm
How many young, raw bigs are available to be signed as FAs to develop as long-term projects? Are you serious that Benson would be a trade chip when gyms are littered with “orphaned” big men waiting to get adopted? After 3 months and no practice time, why would Benson be a trade chip? Has any team signed him in the past few momnths if he is considered a viable NBA product?
The Truth
January 18th, 2012
12:25 pm
With all the coaching staff and experience role players on the team, I find it amazing that (after all these years); no one has helped Marvin with his shortcomings in the paint. Marvin’s length at his position (his greatest asset) is useless if he doesn’t know how to us it which is his greatest problem.
Marvin’s version of making a strong move to basket is to mildly jump, stretch (with no conviction) and put the ball in the basket with no hang time to draw contact. It seems he never considers defenders might block his shot in the process. Blocking Marvin’s shot is so simple; a midget caveman can do it with little effort. He’s always falling because he jumps awkwardly; therefore he lands awkwardly and prone to injuries often.
As much as it bothers me to state the obvious, it is “The Truth”.
It’s hard to defend when you can’t comprehend.
Too many tweeners, Trade Horford
January 18th, 2012
12:27 pm
No bench Marvin for Vlad. Marvin benched the entire 4th.
BTW who is POR starting?
Felton
Wes, Jamal
Gerald Wallace, Batum
Aldridge
Kurt Thomas
Teague
Joe Johnson
Josh Smith
Rasheed (Leuer, Vlad)
Okafor or any bum center
I finally see what people are trying to say about Al. Yeah we can without Horford.
But we can’t win without a quality starting center. And I don’t see one on the roster.
PS Bogut destroyed Hawes and Elton Brand. Thad Young is playing garbage. Celtics are done. Wade is injured. Rose is injured.
And we could easily win the East if ASG made a f*** ng Horford move.
Buddy Grizzard
January 18th, 2012
12:30 pm
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=reboundRate&year=2011&seasontype=3&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dreboundRate%26year%3d2011%26seasontype%3d3
Rufus1
January 18th, 2012
12:30 pm
“I say this because Al is very important to the Hawks. He fits what the Hawks are trying to do – be an athletic, active, physical (Drew’s word is physicality) team that uses its shooting ability to open up the inside game.
A big, lumbering, slow center does not fit that mold. Nor does a tall, quick, string-bean center. Al fits the niche quite snugly.”- REV
Co-sign…It is called basketball common sense.
Too many tweeners, Trade Horford
January 18th, 2012
12:31 pm
Buddy is it rebound %?
Too many tweeners, Trade Horford
January 18th, 2012
12:38 pm
How is Horford fitting in right now.
And quit the athletic crap. When Smith goes to the bench Hawks play Pachulia and move Al to the 4.
That is not athletic. And as stated by Buddy Horford and Smith/Zaza rank average rebounding% wise.
Hawks are trying to be average. average.average.average. Horford is Mr. Average. to a team with Below Average alternatives.
Would a true center have ripped his arm off getting a layup blocked by Roy frikkin Hibbert
doc
January 18th, 2012
12:39 pm
ditto sautee at 10:12.
the real question MC is not yours but why they never addressed this issue; rather than wait until it can deep six the whole season or ruin our wonderful season of entertainment.
Too many tweeners, Trade Horford
January 18th, 2012
12:40 pm
This win would make 4 in a row. So right on cue. Sund does nothing.
Just Joe
January 18th, 2012
12:40 pm
Marvin for Diaw works. Roughly $7.5M to $9M.
Whether the Hawks pay the tax depends on them making another trade.
My choice:
Atlanta gets Kaman
Lakers get Hinrich
New Orleans gets Diaw & Lakers’ 2013 1st rd pick (Odom trade exception)
Hawks save $1.5M and open a roster spot.
Now go dump Joe Johnson in a similar trade.
Rev in Tampa
January 18th, 2012
12:41 pm
KevenM,
I’m not all that concerned about what Al wants. I want to preach a minimum of 45 minutes and sing at least 5 hymns each Sunday but my leadership won’t stand for it. Neither will the congregation. To do what I want would undermine the strength of the overall worship service. So I do what is best for everybody.
The Hawks are not asking Horford to do anything unreasonable. They are specifically asking him to play as a tweener C/PF to out maneuver the traditional centers. He is quicker than the traditional centers and can outmuscle the string-bean centers.
Al becomes very pedestrian when he plays PF. The Hawks tried that expierment last year with the ‘Big Line-up’. With the exception of the Orlando series I saw nothing special out of Al at the PF.
Summer Sautee
January 18th, 2012
12:44 pm
“In Al’s absence, we need a tough, defensive minded center. He don’t need offensive skills, just defense for a few minutes of contribution each night.”
Actually, we have needed that for 3 years now, and that’s WITH Al. That’s the kind of center Horford said he wasn’t and was asking for a trade because he’s not that type of player.
Should have traded him for that guy because as we see Josh is quicker, more dynamic and easier to build around.
Sucks we have to lose because we thought Al’s problems for the position were mental. Should have traded him.
Summer Sautee
January 18th, 2012
12:48 pm
“The Hawks are not asking Horford to do anything unreasonable. They are specifically asking him to play as a tweener C/PF to out maneuver the traditional centers. He is quicker than the traditional centers and can outmuscle the string-bean centers.”
Except he just injured himself against a traditional center and the stringbean centers don’t make it to the playoffs Rev.
Should have traded him for traditional. What if we had Hibbert and they had Horford. I know Hibbert’s 7′2 and probably injury risk but.
Who would not do that trade right now?
Traditional vs Tweener. It’s not unreasonable to expect more injuries from Horford. Blake Griffin, the 2 Miami ankle sprains, and now this.
Why do you think he started shooting jumpers in the first place. To COMPENSATE.
doc
January 18th, 2012
12:48 pm
rev, hate to tell you but after 20 minutes, you are the only one still listening. it is kind of like someone here who cant stop either. tune out into a trance at church or scroll, same thing. heh heh
KevinM
January 18th, 2012
12:49 pm
Yeah, but Rev, players have a lot of leverage in this league….See CP3, D12, Carmelo, etc.
We’re talking about an all-star here and I don’t think Al comes back and continues to pound with the bigger guys inside.
I would like to think we don’t listen to our employees, but the NBA does. How do you think LD ended up where he is now?
The ASG absolutely listens to our captains. This is one reason I make Al my biggest trade chip to get a bit more size inside. I’m not touching Josh or Teague either.
Rufus1
January 18th, 2012
12:52 pm
Bogut= Marvin/ Oden
Drafted to high, inconsistant and injury prone……and he make 14mil a year to be on the bench 50% of the time.
KevinM
January 18th, 2012
12:54 pm
Sund should be calling Otis Smith every day and getting turned down until Otis relents. I’d take JRich and Orton to ease their pain.
justahawkfan
January 18th, 2012
12:58 pm
Al’s nimbers don’t pop out at you but his present on defense along josh can slow down the best ofenses. in the zone especially, they makes it hard for players to get to the basket without resistance. Think back to the Miami and chicago games with an objective eye you will see that we will probably miss Mr. Hoford when the big boys come to town. Maybe tonight!!!!
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2012
12:59 pm
The Hawks are clearly playing well when the primary discussion remains trading an injured All-Star center. Seriously, would you want the Hawks to trade for a player who will miss 80% of the season?
Rev in Tampa
January 18th, 2012
1:01 pm
“And quit the athletic crap. When Smith goes to the bench Hawks play Pachulia and move Al to the 4. That is not athletic.”
That is my point. Horford is useful when playing against other centers. Al needs to stop dreaming about the grass on the others side of the fence. He does not need to play PF.
But here is my point to you. Al Horford is more athletic (quicker, faster, more active) than just about every center in the league. What he gives up in size, he more than makes up with athletism.
I agree that the Hawks could use a true rebounding, rim-protecting center to complement, but not replace Horford, but that is a question for next year due to present circumstances.
prison nike
January 18th, 2012
1:07 pm
I disagree with just needing “a defensive minded big” with no offensive skill. If that was the case NYK would be sitting pretty with Tyson Chandler….
We need an overall ability big, a guy like Al Horford basically. One who plays sound defense, good shooter and passer, and solid rebounder. Problem is, he and his father has gone through the media for not wanting to play center. His latest injury will solidify has stance on not wanting to giving hard fouls/banging with guys on the offensive and defensive end, a prerequisite for a BIG in my book.
Not saying Horf doesn’t fight the good fight but he doesn’t embrace the toughness needed to play the 5 taking this team to the next level.
Summer Sautee
January 18th, 2012
1:17 pm
Bogut’s numbers don’t pop out at you but his presence on defense along Josh can slow down the best offenses. in the zone especially, they makes it hard for players to get to the basket without resistance.
How athletic do you need to be? Kendrick Perkins has an NBA championship because of Garnett.
Every year Smith has Hall of Fame worthy defensive numbers but people piss it away with surrounding the frontcourt with non shooters and undersized centers.
Smith could use Perkins, could use Okafor, could use Bogut, could use Dalembert. Horford gets too much credit for basically the same defensive numbers as Zaza Pachulia.
Look at his defensive rating if you don’t believe me. You talk rotations but forget all the times bigger guys went around him to get the board or lay it up over him.
Rim protection includes altering shots. And check his defensive rating. Historically Al = Zaza in this regard.
Well this year Zaza allowed 2 more points than Horford per 100 possessions.
So which is it? If Zaza’s defense is replaceable because of Smith then so is Horford. Because we all know damn well they are nowhere near the best defenders in the league at center.
Bogut draws charges for crying out loud.
And no matter what Horford,Bogut,Okafor, are 4th options that get points off of other people ccreating.
If Ivan Johnson were 6′9 he’d be the same defensively as Al with better balhandling.
Al is a byproduct of Josh on defense, not the other way around. You can find a quality center to replace Al as a 5th-4th option then do it.
And its not that hard, to find.
MattP
January 18th, 2012
1:22 pm
prison nike,
The problem with the Knicks is that Chandler is the only one with defensive abilities. You can not bring in a overpaid defensive center and think that solves everything. With the Hawks they have a pretty good defense as it is with Ivan, Joe, Josh, Teague, and the bench even helps.The Hawks just need a defensive big man to help in the paint.
Dukester
January 18th, 2012
1:23 pm
@Astro Joe thanks for clearing up the question of “why the hawks cut Keith Benson over Jason Collins?” It makes sense in the compact season needing to have veterans and not projects. But I still think Benson is a better option right now over Collins. Collins is hanging around because D12 missed shots in a playoff game because it definately didnt “D” him up like people are saying he did. I dont even know Benson but I would love to see the young man have the chance to swat 3 blocks get 10-12 rebounds a night for this team and help out Josh on the glass.
O'Brien
January 18th, 2012
1:26 pm
Sectiopn 303,
I think Marvin is a better player than Diaw. But I would trade for Diaw because Diaw’s contract is expiring, whereas Marvin would still have 2 more years left. Trading Marvin for an expiring contract would give us an additional $7.5 mil in cap space next year. With Horford injured, I would trade Marvin for any expiring contract.
Michael Cunningham
January 18th, 2012
1:26 pm
new blog posted.
Just Joe
January 18th, 2012
1:27 pm
“its not that hard to find” a quality center to replace Al. Really???
How many teams do you think are looking for a quality center? Better yet, how many teams have a quality center? This is by far the hardest position to fill in professional basketball. Can you rank the centers in the league? Maybe just give us your top 20.
Dukester
January 18th, 2012
1:27 pm
Ok folks lets please calm down with the “What has Horford done for this team?” “and we need to trade him” type comments!! I mean no every one on this board knows I like prototype centers but Iam not mad at Al Horford. He is a great piece to have in the “core” LOl Get well soon Horford we need you sir. Just not at center. LOL
KevinM
January 18th, 2012
1:27 pm
I would have kept Benson over Stack that’s for sure.
vava74
January 18th, 2012
1:47 pm
Our biggest problem at the C spot is the fact that Al and Zaza (the two C’s) do not have complementary characteristics.
Neither of the two is a shot-blocker/rim protector, neither is a forceful finisher.
Collins is a situational player and IMO a very good 3rd string C on a contender: you need a quality man to man post defender and most shot blockers / rim protectors nowadays are not good man to man.
Our ideal upgrade should be, obviously, replacing Al for a full fledged powerhouse all star C like Howard or Bynum, but that is not going to happen.
So…
The logical move would be to either replace Zaza with a shot blocking C or adding such shot-blocking C to the roster with Zaza logging more minutes at the PF slot.
Zaza is 6′11” but due to his absolute lack of lift and relatively small wingspan, he plays like he is 6′8”: he only looks and acts big but plays small.
(note: I like him)
The 2007/08 Kaman would be a perfect fit:
2007-08 LAC mpg37:12 fg%48.3 FTA3.6 FTM4.7 FT%76.2 oReb3.1 dReb9.6 RPG 12.7 ApG1.9 TO2.9 STL0.6 BLK2.8 PF3.2 PPG 15.7
But injuries have derailed him and his athleticism and conversely his blocks have gone down dramatically.
Slimjr
January 18th, 2012
2:09 pm
It may get real ugly tonight…
Hawks and Western Conference teams, usually means beat down…… Ouch!
Joe and Josh must continue to play like AllStars to have a chance tonight…Not going to be easy cause this team tonight has some real ballers..Very talented group…Man o Man….
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 18th, 2012
2:29 pm
790 The Zone!
In 2 mins about to talk about the surging Hawks! Hurr-up fellas and tune in.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 18th, 2012
3:34 pm
“its not that hard to find” a quality center to replace Al. Really???
How many teams do you think are looking for a quality center? Better yet, how many teams have a quality center? This is by far the hardest position to fill in professional basketball. Can you rank the centers in the league? Maybe just give us your top 20.
==========
it’s not hard if you trade the injured bum who fails over and over again at both positions.
LawDawg
January 18th, 2012
4:07 pm
My better idea: Cyborg Horford.
cpsman_atlanta
January 18th, 2012
4:16 pm
What should they do? Fire their owners, get some owners that care, and bring back hockey to Atlanta. Until then – BOYCOTT ATLANTA SPIRIT GROUP!!! BOYCOTT PHILIPS ARENA!!!! BOYCOTT ATLANTA HAWKS!!!
Hedley Lamarr
January 18th, 2012
4:57 pm
My choice would be to forfeit the remaining games on the schedule, since it’s a waste of everyone’s time and money anyway…
JP
January 18th, 2012
4:59 pm
Move to Canada
Heisenberg
January 18th, 2012
5:07 pm
Rasheed Wallace is working out to make a comeback. Hawks need to kick the tires on him. Outside shooting, low-post defense, and good for a T every now and then.
big trade
January 18th, 2012
9:00 pm
how bout the hawks trade Marvin, Kirk, and Joe to the Magic for Hedo and Dwight????
starting 5 of teague, green, hedo, j-smoove, and dwight. when horford comes back he can come off the bench for the either j-smoove or dwight. tmac can come in for green or teague, and vlad splits play time with hedo.
cottonBall
January 19th, 2012
4:25 am
I hear that Garret Siler was sent to the D-League by the Phoenix Suns. Maybe we could get him to come over to the Hawks as a temporary solution for another big body.
cottonBall
January 19th, 2012
4:27 am
Before anyone comments on my statement, let me just say “Do you think that if he’s not good enough for the Suns that he’s good enough for the Hawks? C’mon, man!”