Atlanta Hawks: What should they do now (poll)?
Al Horford had surgery today and let’s go ahead and say he’s out for the year, regular season and playoffs.
I don’t know that for sure, of course, but out three to four months on Jan. 17 sure sounds that way. If he comes back at the end of the regular season, how long before he’s in game shape and ready to contribute? Could he really make a difference in the playoffs under those circumstances? Is it even worth it at that point for the Hawks to send out their All-Star center with four years left on his $60 million extension?
Loading ...The Hawks might have been able to make a good run at the East finals with Horford. It would have been interesting to see if they could do it, at least. Without Horford, the focus has shifted to whether the Hawks still can make the playoffs without him (yes) or win a playoff round if they manage to make the postseason (unlikely).
But shouldn’t the thinking go beyond that that now for the Hawks? Isn’t looking to the future the prudent thing to do once you accept that a) Horford isn’t coming back or b) he won’t have much if an impact if he does or c) even if he does come back healthy this team has maxed out?
When you look ahead, you see that the Hawks have roughly $61 million committed to six players next season. If it stays that way, Atlanta will have no cap space and would face the possibility of adding free agents around Horford, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith and Jeff Teague with the mid-level, bi-annual and minimum-salary exceptions (or a higher salary through a sign-and-trade). With about $9 million of wiggle room beneath the luxury-tax line, could the Hawks build a true contender that way?
I suppose the Hawks could try to add a big now, either a stop-gap for this season or a legit center both for this postseason and next season. The free-agent pickings are slim but once Kirk Hinrich is healthy it’s possible his expiring $8.1 million contract could be flipped for a center. That most likely would mean the Hawks would have to take on more salary next season while keeping that $9 million tax wiggle room in mind.
Larry Drew, for one, is proceeding as if Atlanta will stick with the status quo.
“That’s the approach I have to take,” he said. “I don’t want to get my hopes built up about something possibly happening and it doesn’t happen. I would rather approach it as nothing is going to happen, this is the team and we will go out and do the best we can.”
If they best the Hawks can do with this roster still leaves them out of the playoffs, that would be disappointing for them considering their high hopes this season. But it may not be the worst thing in the world considering they could have a high pick in what’s supposed to be a deep draft. That player (or the pick) could be a valuable asset down the line, either as a trade chip or a promising young (and cheap) rotation player.
It’s difficult for me to guess how Hawks management would react to things coming to an end in that way for the core. The whole point of keeping this team together was to make a “make or break” run at it this year. The Hawks made the team deeper by adding minimum-salaried veterans but now the master plan has been undermined by losing one of their key cogs to a freak injury.
That’s bad luck, but does that bad luck mean the Hawks keep the core together another year for another run? If they decide this group has run its course, anyway, do they make another run at Dwight Howard even if he still doesn’t include them on his list? If they can’t get Howard, do they trade away a core piece and start building toward acquiring a different superstar or better complementary pieces around whichever part of the core is left behind after trades?
I don’t know what they should do. You tell me, blog people.
Notes
- Tracy McGrady (back) participated in a lengthy workout after practice along with Jerry Stackhouse and Jannero Pargo and looked pretty good. McGrady said he hasn’t consulted the team’s staff while dealing with his ailments: “I haven’t talked to them about it, but I feel pretty good where I’m at. I’m putting in extra work to see where I’m at coming off the back injury. I’m feeling pretty solid. I feel good, legs feel good. I’m ready to go. I wish they’d release me. And I don’t mean from the team.”
- Drew said the starting lineup could be fluid depending on opponent: “That could happen. We are looking at matchups. There are going to be some teams we play against where we are going to have to tweak it a little bit and then as the game progresses make a decision as far as other matchups. We’ve had some situations where started the game and haven’t felt totally comfortable with [matchups] but guys have played through it.”
- When Horford went down, Drew said he was concerned about the Hawks feeling sorry for themselves and letting up. That hasn’t happened: “One good thing that has happened was even when that happened, some of these veteran guys have spoken out and said these are the type of situations that show what a team is made of. These guys have been in this thing a while and they’ve experienced a lot of different situations. They are passing it on.”
- Josh on how the Hawks can keep winning without Al: “I think if Ivan keeps giving the energy and effort he’s giving off the bench and the physicality I think we will be good in the frontcourt. As long as we do that and the guards do that and play tough and make it hard to get into the paint and us being a force, we will be OK. We have to have an identity of being a scrappy team.”
- Josh on his recent tear: “I’m just being aggressive and confident but, in the same breath, playing within the offense and not forcing anything. I’m getting shots in the offense, getting open looks, and guys are finding me. Everyone is being unselfish.”
- Josh is now up to 42 percent on long 2s this season after shooting 39 percent last season. The league average from that range this year is 38 percent. “It’s really muscle memory, not fading on my jump shot and standing in there,” he said. “Whenever I do that I feel good about making shots.”
- Josh on the his slimmer frame: “I feel a little bit more explosive. I might have been winded after all these game last year.” He said it doesn’t help with his jumper, though: “There’s a lot of chubby guys out here that are strokers.”
- T-Mac on his talks with Josh: “I’ve been in his ear and telling him how he can be more effective on the basketball court. He’s one of the guys that has a high basketball IQ. He’s a good passer, he’s very athletic. At his position there are not too many guys like that. The thing about him is he has to really see the flow of the game and know what we need from him and that’s be aggressive and get to the free-throw line. That’s how you get your [scoring] average up in this league. A guy with his ability, he should shoot 8 to 10 free throws per game. I think he’s taking notice.”
- The NBA released its annual GM survey, which allows fans a chance to see that basketball executives don’t always know as much as you might think. Or maybe they just don’t care enough to fill out those surveys. Probably better for fans who care to go with the latter explanation.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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277 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
January 18th, 2012
1:20 am
I think Teague is going to end up costing more than $6 million per year. I would think he’ll be in line for Mike Conley money if he continues to improve, which is $8 million per year for five years.
The thing about any future salary calculations for the Hawks is that eventually Joe is going to be traded or (more likely) amnestied. The DASG knows this, which is why they haven’t used the amnesty on Marvin. So extending Josh (or someone they acquire in exchange for Josh) really shouldn’t be based on Joe’s salary three or four years from now.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 18th, 2012
1:22 am
As for Zaza, they extended him for $4.75 million over 4 years in 2009, and his numbers over the course of his new contract are lower. If anything they should be able to keep him at a discount, but hopefully they will have drafted/signed a better backup center before then.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 18th, 2012
1:34 am
Joe is aging quickly and is a waste if we dont go deep into the playoffs.
Lets say we lose Smith and Joe because Horford fans get their wish. Lets say Harrison Barnes takes 4 years to become a bit better than Luol Deng or Granger.
What free agents would come here? Al Horford would be 29 years old. Teague would be 27.
Stop BSing seasons away talking about superstars. THe future is now. We lead the division, and the East is wide open now.
Al Horford is not the future, and will become Tony Battie as he ages. Get out of here with that crap.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 18th, 2012
1:47 am
Presumably you guys want centers younger than Smith?
——-
Yup Bucks sounding like they’ll blow it up.
Grandad
January 18th, 2012
1:59 am
For SteveW and for doc:
1st:
Josh for a Big / Legit Center.
Who I had in mind:
* Bynum – my thinking that LAL could go the route of using Josh
to lure D.Howard to the Lakers.
* Pau Gasol – ditto the above ^ rationale.
* The two aforementioned possibilities would include Cap’n Kirk
as the Lakers are desperate for a pg. / right now !
* A 3rd possibility would be attempt to pry Monroe from the Pistons.
We would come out on the short end of the stick so I would ask for
their # 1 pick as well; or possibly exchange our 1st for their 1st.
That would put us / the Hawks in position to draft Thomas Robinson.
* One other would be a blockbuster of sorts where we would obtain;
Spencer Hawes [center] plus, Jrue Holiday & Andre Iguodala from Philly.
note – I do not know or have not looked at how this could be pulled off ?
*** [I love Jrue Holiday and believe he could play the [2] alongside Teaguer]
-which would open up a whole nuther can o’ worms-
_____________________________________________
2nd:
Now for the next topic:
My son had labrum surgery.
At the time he was a collegiate athlete. *(basketball)
I do not know the differences between labrum surgery
and Al’s surgery.
What I do know is; my son basically could do nothing for 6 months.
he could not even run for fear he would fall and catch himself;
which could perhaps destroy all that the surgery had repaired.
Then, it was 6 more months of rehab & conditioning;
totalling one full year before he was released to compete.
I cannot imagine Al coming back this year.
Grandad
January 18th, 2012
2:01 am
* labrum = shoulder
Grandad
January 18th, 2012
2:10 am
SteveW
The more I have thought about Boris Diaw;
the more I like the idea of bringing him back.
[for one year]
-perfect fit-
I posted this on the last blog but did not hang around for the feedback.
JaeEvolution
January 18th, 2012
2:26 am
Marvin for Diaw straight up. Big enough to play 4, good enough handles to play 3, unselfish, smart player.
Atl 2nd round pick for Erden from Cleveland. Still have Phx 2nd rounder mid 30’s for 7 footer, long, mobile, active.
Best we can do a cheap price.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 18th, 2012
2:28 am
Boris Diaw, not a true center. A soft jump shooter tweeber. A shorter fatter Horford = perfect fit? That’s a terrible fit.
JaeEvolution
January 18th, 2012
2:29 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z_WqbddDh4
jabbar
January 18th, 2012
3:08 am
I think Drew is lying his face off infront of tv cameras. I dont think he wants to play tmac anymore so he goes on and tells people tmacs back didnt pullup. Tmac says thats not true by saying they need to unleash me.
Just Joe
January 18th, 2012
6:14 am
Marvin Williams to Toronto for L. Barbosa.
Pull off that trade first, and then having $16M in expiring contracts (Hinrich and Barbosa) gives you better trade chips to go out and get a big if one becomes available.
vava74
January 18th, 2012
6:30 am
From previous blog:
KevinM,
Stop being an @ss.
Almost everyone around here knows that my native language is portuguese (I follow the Hawks from across the pond since the eighties), so I am bound to make a mistake or two when typing in a rush.
The fact that you came back at me starting with something completely un-related to basketball just shows your lack of arguments.
Yes, Ivan was very good against the Wolves and a major factor, but there were several possessions in which Collins guarded Love and pushed him to play away from the basket where he was destroying us.
Collins was also effective keeping Pekovic’s massive body away from the paint, which is something that was giving us some problems.
It was not by a mere chance that a guy who scored 2 points and got 3 rebounds in 13 minutes had a ± of +10.
You simply select not to see that, as I am sure that you did not register in your “offense oriented mind” what Collins did to Howard last season both during the regular season and the playoffs.
Sure, Howard got his points and his rebounds, but he made him work for all his shots, breaking the rhythm of ORL’s offense and allowing the rest of the guys to concentrate on playing the shooters.
Look again at the link and enlighten yourself a bit on Collins role against Minny:
http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20120114&game=MINATL
If I am not wrong you were one of the biggest Jamal supporters, which for me is telling: you don’t know how to watch, understand and interpret the game.
So Mullens and Speights are better than Collins??
I don’t negate that both are talented and obviously much more offensively gifted, however, talent, role and production are two completely different things.
Collins is – as I emphasized – a situational player, a specialist.
Mullens is a SF trapped in a 7′ frame: his game is strictly facing the basket from 15′ and beyond when we need girth in the block.
Speights is a decent prospect which has showed flashes of low post scoring but has been severely hampered by injuries and bad attitude and has never showed ANY inclination to play any thing resembling D.
Good luck going against Howard with either (just check last night’s game).
vava74
January 18th, 2012
6:31 am
And on the Marvin – Diaw swap… where can we sign the petition?
Should we contribute towards the plane fare to get the deal done?
prison nike
January 18th, 2012
6:39 am
I think we’ve come to an impasse like the Sixers did in 2001. They were relegated to 2nd round ceilings (sound familiar right) for two straight years. Kukoc and Ratliff could only take them so far while being fan favorites of that city.
So the trade that took them to the next level was: Mutumbo and Mcleod for Kukoc, Ratliff, Nazr, and filler. It was an outstanding trade for the Hawks. That’s beside the point. The problem for Philadelphia was the Lakers team that was one of the greatest teams of the 2000s.
But guess what, there is no great team out west this year unless you count OKC which we have the athletes to counteract them if not nullify in a 7 game series. I would love to have a player like Kaman, problem is I think N.O. would like to sign him long term and we have no pieces to offer for him.
So my revised trade…
Bogut and Ilyasova for Zaza and Horford. This my friends takes us to Conference Finals.
PEDRO EL GITANO
January 18th, 2012
6:48 am
Creo que hay que fichar a un pivot,pero los que creen que sin Horford podemos jugar la loteria fuera de playoffs son unos ignorantes.Horford es un jugador correcto,nada mas;y se lesiono por cabeza hueca por cierto.
Section 303
January 18th, 2012
8:03 am
I don’t see any reason for the Hawks to make a move right now. By the time the trade deadline arrives, we’ll know what we have. Hawks will have gone through a road trip and played tough opponets. If the team is a mess at that point, make a move. If the team looks like it could make some noise in the postseason, possibly make a move. No need to do anything right now.
Also, tonight will give us an idea where we stand. Would be nice to have some actual fans in the building. Crowds the past few games have been pathetic. If you aren’t going to any games, don’t complain. Get in the arena! Don’t want to hear about money issues….tickets are cheap and easy to get.
Section 303
January 18th, 2012
8:05 am
vava74, Boris Diaw? Am I reading your posts right? You want Boris Diaw? I’ll pass on the fat guy. He is not that good. Thought we knew that already.
vava74
January 18th, 2012
8:48 am
Section,
I grant that Diaw is not remarkable BUT he is better than Marvin!
He would give us some versatility and play making ability from the wing at the SF-PF slots and even some spot minutes at the C slot.
What’s not to like to a possible deal like this?
I think that playing for a playoff bound team like us would also motivate him to get into better shape and produce.
The Truth
January 18th, 2012
8:58 am
All this chatter about trading Hawk players is beyond excessive. What about upgrading some of these blogger posts? It has been the pit on here lately. With these repetitive suggestions stated over and over again (approaching a million times), my finger is getting numb from hitting the stroll key so often.
I find it amazing someone can exactly produce so much of the same stuff in so many different variations, under an endless number of names on a daily bases.
Power of persuasion, you thing have, JEDI KNIGHT, YOU ARE NOT! PROFESSIONAL HELP, YOU REALLY NEED!
The Truth
January 18th, 2012
9:02 am
*Power of persuasion, you think you have, JEDI KNIGHT, YOU ARE NOT! PROFESSIONAL HELP, YOU REALLY NEED
Jump Shooter X
January 18th, 2012
9:03 am
When will Stackhouse play MC ?
j konkack
January 18th, 2012
9:04 am
seeing how the nba playoffs last 3 months, al could be back if the hawks go deep
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2012
9:05 am
I don’t want Diaw if he comes with french pastries for every long-time blogger.
I also think it is possible to have a good BBall IQ, you know, somewhere in between great and poor. We too often get caught up in extremes. Jeff Teague can’t be Devin Harris, he has to be Kevin Johnson. Josh Smith can’t have a good bball IQ, it is either off the charts high or in the toilet low. IMO, I think Josh has a good Bball IQ, neither tremendously high nor outrageously low. Basically, nothing worth discussing. In fact, I think the same is true of the vast majority of the Hawks. Nothing worth admiration for any of them (IMO).
Fundamentals
January 18th, 2012
9:09 am
I pray we never see steven jackson or Boris diaw in a hawks uni again!
I honestly think we need a big for the playoff run, but don’t see a big trade piece out there. Sign a GA or D-league player to contribute like Ivan.
Kirk will be an assert on this team as a backup or beside Teague w Joe at sf.
Marvin needs to get back to the aggressiveness he showed early.
Horfords injury proves there was friction and chemistry issues but for now there is no levity quality trade worth losing Al or Kirk over.
doc
January 18th, 2012
9:13 am
gdad your son had more of what hinrich had which is why i am surprised that they think he will be back so soon as 2 or 3 months. very few have what al had ever in life much less basketball. it is a very unusual thing therefore less predictable. i have heard of it in football, just the same it is usually a long rehab. it is a very different beast to deal with.
Fundamentals
January 18th, 2012
9:14 am
If we get Diaw again Woodson will get ejected from his next 5 games for having uncontrollable laughter every time he thinks about that guy stinking up our locker room again.
Fundamentals
January 18th, 2012
9:18 am
I like how the TEAM is gelling and playing their roles. That wins championships, just ask the Spurs or Rockets. Let’s see how the team reacts to tougher competition before jumping to conclusions.
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2012
9:19 am
Fundamentals, the Hawk I had the hardest time cheering for was Antoine Walker. I HATED him in a Celtics uniform and throughout his career and did a few dry heaves when the Hawks acquired him. But that was one of the ways that I learned to focus on the team and NOT the players. Players come and go but (with few exceptions) the team belongs to the city. None of my Hawk gear has a player’s name on it, same with the Falcons. Individual players are a secondary story to the team… and that horrific tenure when I had to actually root for Antoine Walker helped me come to that realization.
Fundamentals
January 18th, 2012
9:25 am
Amen Astro Joe.
SteveW
January 18th, 2012
9:33 am
Najeh – With Teague, I kinda was thinking Mike Conley – but a little less. I had seen Conley was making 6.5m this season – I didn’t know his contract was so back loaded until I checked on it.
And with ZaZa I was just going on the price of Bigs in the NBA right now – very scarce quantity.
Kwame Brown got 7 million. 7 million per season!!
So I actually thought ZaZa might fetch 5 mill per for 3 more seasons.
Grandad – I like those trades – I don’t know if any would work with the other teams, as you said. Pistons may want to build around Monroe, he’s younger etc. And I don’t think Philly is getting rid of Holiday at this point, even for Josh.
But I like the trades.
Gasol for Josh? Maybe – but I don’t think the Lakers are getting rid of Bynum now. He’s playing to well.
General Info – Bogut makes 12.1m this season, 12.4? next, and 13.5 m the next. So he is currently making per season than Al.
Najeh – And I doubt ASG takes the hit and amnesties JJ. If their paying for him, they are going to play him. These are the guys selling 2nd round picks for cash.
SteveW
January 18th, 2012
9:34 am
“more” per season than Al
SteveW
January 18th, 2012
9:34 am
AJ – My thoughts exactly.
Section 303
January 18th, 2012
9:40 am
vava, I don’t agree. Diaw is not better than Marvin. I actually think Marvin has been pretty solid this season. He has never been more aggressive on the floor and he has come up with some nice hustle plays. Granted, he is made of glass and still does not finish well, but he brings more to the team than Diaw.
And, I just do not want to watch a fat guy play each night. This is the NBA. Christ, have a little respect for yourself!
tony
January 18th, 2012
9:41 am
They shouldn’t do anything.
just SHOOT me
January 18th, 2012
9:43 am
Michael Cunningham for President!
just SHOOT me
January 18th, 2012
9:46 am
Face it people, the Hawks are done in 2012. We can go out and sign some backup center or keep the team we have. Neither will matter. Even if we make the playoffs we’ll end up most likely facing either Chicago or Miami and get swept in the first round. I say we battle it out and play hard while looking ahead to the future. You can’t lose someone of Horford’s calibur and expect to do anything.
doc
January 18th, 2012
9:46 am
the ability of this organization to use the amnesty is lower than using a trade exception. just not going to happen. jj retires a hawk or is traded simple as that. he might redo his contract like pierce did but that is as close as we get to improving his contract hit to bigger picture of cap total andhow croppling it will be.
gdad why would philly do a trade to put them behind us when they are better than us now? pacers and philly > hawks.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 18th, 2012
9:47 am
The last team to try to play Diaw on the perimeter was the Atlanta Hawks. For those of you who may be new to the team, that experiment failed miserably, despite Billy Knight trying to convince us that Diaw was the French Scottie Pippen. Diaw is, to my knowledge, the only NBA player with a twitter account dedicated to his boobs. I would prefer to avoid him in any case, but especially if the plan is to give him minutes at SF.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 18th, 2012
9:51 am
” i have heard of it in football, just the same it is usually a long rehab. it is a very different beast to deal with.”
Elvis Dumervil of the Broncos had the same injury as Al in preseason and missed the entire season (5 months total).
Al ain’t coming back this year.
Ra'mon
January 18th, 2012
9:56 am
Najeh, I’m with you. I’d rather give Ivan MORE minutes than to give Diaw ANY minutes.
vava74
January 18th, 2012
10:02 am
Diaw is lazy but very talented.
Look at this year’s game log.
He posted good numbers against “spotlight teams” which motivated him: @ home vs MIA and twice at the Madison against NYK (there was a poor performance @ MIA on a blow out).
Since the rest of the schedule was mostly disinteresting, he did not come to play.
IF, he came motivated to be in playoffs and be part of a good run he could work 25/28 minutes per depending on match ups spread around on all 3 front court positions.
I am not talking about starting him at the SF slot.
I would strongly consider JJ at the SF slot with McGrady, Green and Hinrich splitting minutes at the SG slot.
vava74
January 18th, 2012
10:03 am
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3724/gamelog;_ylt=Auc1n0yKS.V5QiWS9v306rzZPKB4
Trojan
January 18th, 2012
10:05 am
In Al’s absence, we need a tough, defensive minded center. He don’t need offensive skills, just defense for a few minutes of contribution each night.
HoosierHawk
January 18th, 2012
10:07 am
Dallas wants to get expiring deals to go for Dwight in 2012. Might they take Kirk for either Haywood or Marion? Marion > Marvin and Haywood is a legit rotation center. Or would they take Marvin too with Kirk for both?
I, for the record, don’t think blowing up the team is necessary, because I think Joe and Josh are both stepping it up and I don’t think we would get equal value for either in a trade. I also like Kirk. Jusssayin
Sautee
January 18th, 2012
10:12 am
“In Al’s absence, we need a tough, defensive minded center. He don’t need offensive skills, just defense for a few minutes of contribution each night.”
Actually, we have needed that for 3 years now, and that’s WITH Al.
That’s the kind of help Horford was asking for.
Dukester
January 18th, 2012
10:15 am
KEITH BENSON VS JASON COLLINS
I wonder what the hawks saw in this kid that made them draft him and cut him. Now let me say I only saw him play on youtube. But what I do know his he average 2.5 blocks throughout is college career. I also know he is a little under weight at 230lbs. But you cant tell me this child could not start over Jason Collins and also be a cheaper more athletic option?? If you guys think Josh will be able to compete on both ends of the court defending the paint for the whole season your crazy. Does anyone know why they cut Keith Benson?
kwooden
January 18th, 2012
10:21 am
Right now they should cut Sloan and pickup Benson, which is probably what they’re waiting to do once Kirk is back and productive.
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2012
10:34 am
Dukester, my guess is that the Hawks will literally have a handful of practices because of this compressed schedule. And the young bigs (Benson and Rolle) would have needed significant practice time to be game ready (from both a skill perspective and physically). That is why I think they opted for a much older set of players this year. And with the likelihood that all players on the roster may need to play this season, I think they felt they didn’t have the flexibility to send guys to the D-League this seaqson. Honestly, I have no issues with the approach… and would still prefer seeing an old head added to replace Horfrod rather than a project player.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 18th, 2012
10:42 am
“In Al’s absence, we need a tough, defensive minded center. He don’t need offensive skills, just defense for a few minutes of contribution each night.”
Actually, we have needed that for 3 years now, and that’s WITH Al.
That’s the kind of help Horford was asking for.
========
Ironic because:
- Smith can’t play the 3 on offense.
- Horford shot is easily bothered by length in his shooting pocket or face (ala Marvin)
- Horford failed to be a more effective player at the 4 (Smith,Horford,Zaza/Collins)
- Smith then asked for a shooter SF/PF (Jamal wasn’t returning because he makes us smaller and less effective on defense,boards) better than him (enter Vlad)
- Horford did not get a center because then Smith would be the best shooter in the frontcourt
- Both requests pushed Marvin out of the lineup
- Marvin is still starting
Chemistry issues indeed.