Timberwolves at Atlanta Hawks: Game thread
- I’m not at the game tonight. The AJC’s Chris Viviamore is on the scene.
- At shootaround today Marvin Williams (ankle) told C-Viv he plans to play tonight. Tracy McGrady (back) is out and is shooting for a Monday return.
- Larry Drew said the Hawks are in no hurry to make a roster move in the wake of Al Horford’s injury.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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641 comments Add your comment
Slimjr
January 15th, 2012
6:36 pm
Gasol help D is about as good as All NBA……. Crickets……..
northcyde
January 15th, 2012
6:40 pm
per 36 minute numbers
- Bynum: 15.6 points – 10.7 rebs – 2.3 blks – 57% FG – 68% FT
- Okafor: 14.1 points – 11.2 rebs – 2.1 blks – 52% FG – 59% FT
Okafor has basically been a starter all of his life, while Bynum sat the bench his first year and has been slowed by injury. At full strength, it isn’t even close as to who is the better center. It’s Bynum.
yodaddybrother
January 15th, 2012
6:41 pm
just because the trade worked on NBA2K12 and you can send the players to camp to get better doesn’t mean this works in real life.
I just looked it up. Okafor at 6″10 averages 8 pts and 8 Rebs this year. Kaman 10 and 7.
That’s not good enough to trade for especially when Marvin Williams averages 10 & 6 in less minutes. Zaza Pachulia averages 9 & 10 in 3 games as a starter not to mention he’s bigger than both of those “centers” you want to bring in here.
Those guys you want to trade for bring absolutely nothing to the table.
yodaddybrother
January 15th, 2012
6:45 pm
Only thing wrong with Zaza is that he has short arms and that makes it tough for him to consistently get his shot off.
JaeEvolution
January 15th, 2012
6:48 pm
Lol, aside from the Heat we have the worst set of Centers in the East hands down. I’m excluding Al Horford, but I dare someone to show me in the East to show me a set of CENTERS as bad as ours, we have every right to complain.
yodaddybrother
January 15th, 2012
6:51 pm
Say you do trade for either of those ‘centers”. Then you have two PFs that need to play….Josh and Al. Neither of those guys you traded for are as good as those two. Now you have a big lineup with no one to space the floor and players still playing out of position.
Josh will be on the perimeter more which hurts the team more…more jumpers….less help at the rim….less attacking the rim.
bad trade.
northcyde
January 15th, 2012
6:52 pm
yodaddy . . . I tend to agree. Trading two of those guys just to get one, is NOT an upgrade to this team, in my opinion.
Kaman isn’t the same player that he was 3 or 4 years ago, and Okafor’s worth is his defense, not his offense.
The question with Marvin is if his rebounding rate “fools gold”, or is it legit ( since his back is now fixed ). Marvin is much more active and makes more of a contribution these days, than he has in years past.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 15th, 2012
6:56 pm
“Say you do trade for either of those ‘centers”. Then you have two PFs that need to play….Josh and Al.”
Al is out for the season. If Al was healthy I wouldn’t be advocating a Kaman or Okafor trade at all. I am not trying to make either one of them out to be some kind of All Star. I am only saying each of them is significantly better than Zaza and gives the Hawks a much better chance of winning games in the regular season.
Bigman needed
January 15th, 2012
6:59 pm
“okafor has basically been a starter all of his life, while Bynum sat the bench his first year and has been slowed by injury. At full strength, it isn’t even close as to who is the better center. It’s Bynum.”
Bynum has played his career with kobe bryant, pau and odum to take pressure off in front court and phil jackson coaching. Bynum is coming into his own and looks like 2d best center in nba for now but how much is his success owed to having odum, pau and kobe. Okafor played with chris paul for a couple seasons but that’s all he’s had around him and he still put up elite numbers for his position
Grandad
January 15th, 2012
6:59 pm
Career wise, kaman is a better player than Marv or Zaza.
Najeh;
I fail to understand why Marv and Zaza for Kaman is any worse
than Marv and Zaza for Okafor.
We lose Kirk’s salary next yr. one way or another.
Marv’s replacement:
V-Rad
Josh
T-Mac
How many minutes will be left ?
If Kaman were here ?
At the [4 & 5] would be::
Kaman, Josh, (part time) Ivan, & Collins & hopefully Al for the playoffs.
yodaddybrother
January 15th, 2012
7:01 pm
“I’m excluding Al Horford, but I dare someone to show me in the East to show me a set of CENTERS as bad as ours, we have every right to complain.”
How can you exclude an All Star center???? But I’ll go down the line….Cavs, Pistons, Celtics (don’t even have a center), Bobcats, Nets, Raptors, 76ers, Heat. Then once you include Al Horford…only the Magic have a better center group because of Dwight Howard.
Yall act like the Hawks have a bunch of scrubs. Look at the Timberwolves center situation or the Mavs. Center is not the position of dominance like it used to be. Now it’s all about how good your point guard and power forwards are and the Hawks are good at one and great at the other.
Sautee
January 15th, 2012
7:03 pm
Slim, didn’t you want to trade Josh for Derrick Williams?
Bigman needed
January 15th, 2012
7:05 pm
The most talent okafor has had around him was probaly at uconn when charlie vilenueva and ben gordon!
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 15th, 2012
7:06 pm
“How can you exclude an All Star center???? ”
-because he’s injured?
Bigman needed
January 15th, 2012
7:10 pm
Center is becoming a strong position in the east: monroe at detroit, hawes at 76ers, hibbert, javale mcgee, bargnani, noah, throw in bogut, lopez when he returns, even mullens on a scoring tear.
You have got to have center to be a contender
yodaddybrother
January 15th, 2012
7:11 pm
“Al is out for the season. If Al was healthy I wouldn’t be advocating a Kaman or Okafor trade at all. I am not trying to make either one of them out to be some kind of All Star. I am only saying each of them is significantly better than Zaza and gives the Hawks a much better chance of winning games in the regular season.”
He may be out for the season but he’s still under contract. The fact is that Okafor and Kaman are old, injury prone, and paid a lot more than Zaza YET Zaza has comparable #’s in games he’s actually started. Not to mention he’s physically bigger than those you mentioned.
We’d give up two rotation players. Give up Kirk HInrich and we’re stuck with Pargo as the backup point guard. Give up Marvin and we’d have to start Vlad Rad and hope T-Mac stays healthy to back him up. Not to mention…either of those guys would send Ivan to the bench permanently. Get Okafor and he’d be under contract allowing no flexibility in free agency.
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 15th, 2012
7:11 pm
Gee-Zus!
Ha Ha! I wouldn’t trade Teague and Josh for all the tea in China! Unless you’re getting a super-star in return @ center. Hella to the Naw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Buddy Grizzard
January 15th, 2012
7:16 pm
“Deron Williams is the starting point guard for one of the worst teams in the NBA. Derek Fisher is the starting point guard for a playoff contender. What’s your point?”
Derek Fisher has produced in the finals. Kaman has produced what exactly?
Derek Fisher has produced in the NBA finals. Chris Kaman has produced what exactly?
Grandad
January 15th, 2012
7:16 pm
Whomever said;
“I’m excluding Al Horford,
but I dare someone to show me in the East
to show me a set of CENTERS as bad as ours,
we have every right to complain.”
answer = Boston !
____________________________________________
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
{{{ “How can you exclude an All Star center???? ” }}}
{{{ “-because he’s injured?” }}}
- Agreed – !!
You beat me to it.
____________________________________________
Buddy Grizzard
January 15th, 2012
7:17 pm
Stupid iphone
yodaddybrother
January 15th, 2012
7:19 pm
“Center is becoming a strong position in the east: monroe at detroit, hawes at 76ers, hibbert, javale mcgee, bargnani, noah, throw in bogut, lopez when he returns, even mullens on a scoring tear.”
No it’s not man. Stop overrating these players. Al Horford as a power forward acting center dominates all those guys. Lmao @ Spencer Hawes and Byron Mullens??? can’t be serious man. Greg Monroe??? Cmon man. Noah’s contract makes him overrated and Bargnani??? No Defense no rebounding bargnani??? a 7 ft. shooting guard? And these guys putting up decent numbers on these horrible teams. They have to give the ball to somebody. Somebody has to rebound the basketball. Doesn’t mean they are good players.
Grandad
January 15th, 2012
7:20 pm
Okafor had Chris Paul and David West among others
at N.O. – I think that trumps Ben gordon and charlie V.
yodaddybrother
January 15th, 2012
7:23 pm
“The most talent okafor has had around him was probaly at uconn when charlie vilenueva and ben gordon!”
He played with Chris Paul man…inflated numbers…This year is more of the player he really is 8 pts and 8 rebs.
Grandad
January 15th, 2012
7:24 pm
*Charlie V.
-capital idea to capitalize proper nouns-
Slimjr
January 15th, 2012
7:25 pm
ELI IS DA MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEW YORK IS DRILLING GB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 15th, 2012
7:26 pm
Ken remember this:
“Comeone, what else but an ANAL MINDED MORON would complain about a player being:
1-too short,
2-too mechanical,
3-too soft,
4-taking too many jumpshots, even though he’s the NBAs most efficient at it,
5-out of position,
6-less than a dominant rebounder and scorer,
7-less than a dominant postup scorer,
And then they trivialize and make fun of him being able to overcome all of these alledged shortcomings to become a consecutive 2 time Allstar and All NBA selection in his 1st 4 yrs. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES, AND CONTINUES TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or should I say, ANAL MINDED IS AS ANAL MINDED DOES, AND CONTINUES TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
——–
2 days later Horford vs Hibbert would result in injury after a ref assumed a 2 dunk attempts resulted in 2 blocks. That play shows how much the refs respect Al as a true center or as a player.
Slimjr
January 15th, 2012
7:27 pm
WHAT AN ARM? A CANNON!!!! NEW YORK IS RED HOT!
CANNON? HOWITZER?…DARTS?……YEP
Slimjr
January 15th, 2012
7:29 pm
GB RECEIVERS HAVE 7 DROPS..THEY LOOK LIKE OUR FALCON RECEIVERS TODAY?
Najeh Davenpoop
January 15th, 2012
7:30 pm
“Derek Fisher has produced in the NBA finals. Chris Kaman has produced what exactly?”
Derek Fisher was productive in the NBA finals years ago. He is old and washed up now, and yet he starts on a team that is still in position to make noise in the playoffs. I am only pointing out that just because a player is on a bad team doesn’t mean he is automatically worse than a player on a good team. And anyway, Zaza has produced what exactly?
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 15th, 2012
7:31 pm
*edit “submarine slammed” is too strong? should be submarined/dangerously tripped
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
January 15th, 2012
7:37 pm
Not sending out Zaza (heart and success and grit and size frustrates vs Dwight) before we play Orlando. And not before I jettison Marvin. for a stretch 4.
Slimjr
January 15th, 2012
7:37 pm
Lost a Step?
Its tough to watch Marvin out there the other night.. He looked so out of shape..He lost momentum being out for a week! Its just to bad he did not live up to his lofty draft position….Sad, so Sad….
It was a good pick. More like, it could of been a better pick..
Slimjr
January 15th, 2012
7:39 pm
Doug Collins for coach of the year! If his team keeps it up and they will….
Grandad
January 15th, 2012
7:43 pm
Sheldon Williams was a worse pick.
Slimjr
January 15th, 2012
7:46 pm
TOUCHDOWN NEWYORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just piling it on? Ya thinks?
Bigman needed
January 15th, 2012
7:46 pm
Okafor played with paul a couple seasons and the team was in the playoffs, but most of his nba career has been like this yr, absolutely no talent around him. Certainly not the kind of roster bynum has had around him
Najeh Davenpoop
January 15th, 2012
7:48 pm
“He may be out for the season but he’s still under contract. The fact is that Okafor and Kaman are old, injury prone, and paid a lot more than Zaza YET Zaza has comparable #’s in games he’s actually started. Not to mention he’s physically bigger than those you mentioned.”
Al being under contract is irrelevant to a Kaman trade, since Kaman’s contract is expiring. By the time Al is healthy again, Kaman will either be re-signed as a backup to a more cap-friendly deal or he will leave as a free agent. Al being under contract is relevant to an Okafor trade, which is why I prefer Kaman over Okafor. Okafor is paid too much to be a backup, which is what he would be next year when Al returns. In the short term, though, both would be an upgrade over Zaza for this season.
Kaman and Okafor are not even two full years older than Zaza, so age is irrelevant. It is true that they are injury prone, and Zaza has been durable.
I went over in the previous post how Zaza is a lot more comparable to other backup centers — Kwame Brown is the one I chose to compare him to — than he is to Kaman. The last time Zaza started a full season, he put up 12 and 7 on 47% shooting with 2+ turnovers and the Hawks won 30 games. If you want to use two games against two below .500 teams to say the Hawks will be fine standing pat with Zaza for the remainder of the season, fine. I am using 6+ seasons of watching Zaza to say that while he will intermittently be a beast on the boards, his complete inability to help on D and his general clumsiness on offense will only be accentuated against starters. Kaman and Okafor are not All Stars but they have been better than Zaza for a long time now.
Bigman needed
January 15th, 2012
7:54 pm
Let’s stop burying marvin for being drafted high. You are gonna miss on draft picks. It’s not like we took sam bowie instead of jordan, or completely whiiffed with hasheem thabeet at 2. Marvin has won more playoff series than paul and dwill- i would guess. Dwill is in decline right now and marvin may be the trade chip to get us a legit center in here
Slimjr
January 15th, 2012
7:57 pm
No Billy Knight is gonna miss on picks again and again and again and again and again and again and again…….et al…….lol!
Just Joe
January 15th, 2012
8:00 pm
Marvin Williams & Donald Sloan to Detroit for Tayshaun Prince & Ben Wallace.
Slimjr
January 15th, 2012
8:05 pm
Like that trade! ^^^^^^^^^^^^
ECF material there?
Slimjr
January 15th, 2012
8:08 pm
Theres no guarantee when All NBA comes back that he will NBA playoff ready? He may be extremely rusty..His midrange set shot might be misfiring on all cylinders.. We need a big!!!
Bigman needed
January 15th, 2012
8:12 pm
Tayshaun has 4 yrs left at about 7 per, while marvin has only 3 yrs left and is basically the same player at this stage. ben wallace has little impact on the game these days. Deal does not improve the hawks
Najeh Davenpoop
January 15th, 2012
8:27 pm
“GB RECEIVERS HAVE 7 DROPS..THEY LOOK LIKE OUR FALCON RECEIVERS TODAY?”
Aaron Rodgers reminded me a LOT of Falcons-era Mike Vick in that game. Let down repeatedly by his receivers and offensive line, and using his legs to move around and make plays to try to keep his team in the game.
Slimjr
January 15th, 2012
8:33 pm
“25 Worst NBA Draft Picks of the Last Decade” Bleacher Report
Thank You Billy Knight: Two of your picks made the list! Impressive indeed!
AC Law @ #11
Sheldon Williams @ #18
Congrats!!
Najeh Davenpoop
January 15th, 2012
8:39 pm
“I fail to understand why Marv and Zaza for Kaman is any worse
than Marv and Zaza for Okafor.”
Even in that scenario, Okafor adds more long term salary obligation than Kaman, who adds none. I’d also rather trade Kirk than Marvin since Marvin has a role (for better or worse) in the rotation, while the Hawks have gotten by just fine so far with no Kirk.
Bigman needed
January 15th, 2012
8:52 pm
What was#1 worst draft pick? Surely thabeet
point of contact
January 15th, 2012
8:53 pm
go hawks?
Slimjr
January 15th, 2012
9:08 pm
25 Worst NBA Draft Picks of the Last Decade
By
Adam Fromal
(Featured Columnist) on November 14, 2011
67,917 reads
122
Previous
32 of 33
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“1. Jay Williams (No. 2 in 2002)”
AC Law was #20 not #11
Interesting enough Thabeet is not on this list yet? Huh?
Grandmaster JeJe
January 15th, 2012
9:11 pm
One of the owners just emailed me back, lauding Gearon and saying he hasn’t read the Q&A.