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Atlanta Hawks: Pacers 96, Hawks 84

11:16 pm January 11, 2012, by Michael Cunningham

Indianapolis–The Hawks were short-handed, they didn’t play well for two of the three competitive quarters, and Indiana was good. It all added up to a beatdown that Atlanta’s third-stringers made look more respectable.

  • Larry Drew said Al Horford will be reevaluated when the team returns to Atlanta. The Hawks said the initial diagnosis was a strained left shoulder. Horford wasn’t in the locker room after the game during my time in there.
  • Tracy McGrady said he’s not sure if he will be available vs. Charlotte tomorrow. “This morning, I felt a little tight in my back but I didn’t think it was going to be anything serious to keep me out,” he said.
  • Clearly Atlanta’s offense suffers without Horford, McGrady and Marvin Williams. It suffers even more against a good defensive team like the Pacers.
  • But the Hawks made a run at it in the second quarter, when they scored 14 of their 30 points in the paint, earned 10 free-throw attempts (making seven) and had just one turnover. It came apart in the third quarter, when they had four field goals, three free-throw attempts and six turnovers.
  • “We missed a lot of shots, some easy layups,” Drew said. “We turned the ball over. Everything that could have gone wrong went wrong in that third quarter.”
  • “I thought our ball movement wasn’t good enough and our energy was not high enough out there,” Joe Johnson said. “Losing Al hurt a lot. He’s a good low-post scorer for us. He’s also a high-energy guy. He’s a big piece of what we do.”
  • Al came out looking like he was going to take it to Roy Hibbert, size disadvantage be damned. That fall on the blocked shot looked bad, though.
  • The Hawks actually had nine shots in the paint in the third quarter compared to 10 attempts in the second. But they made just three of those tries in the third after making seven in the second quarter.
  • In the third quarter, Jeff Teague missed two shots at the rim and Ivan Johnson, Jannero Pargo and Zaza Pachulia each missed one.
  • Some of that was the Roy Hibbert effect. When guys went to the basket, you could see them taking extra dribbles and double-clutching. All that did was give Hibbert (four of Indian’s 10 blocked shots) more time to recover.
  • Zaza absorbed most of Horford’s minutes and was good offensively with 11 points on six shots and strong on the boards as usual. But he couldn’t keep Hibbert away from the basket or challenge the many Pacers who sliced into the lane.
  • “I think we gave up too many easy points in the paint,” Josh Smith said. “You make it harder to get some stops. Hibbert is a tall glass of water. When you let him catch it around that smiley face and be able to lean in like that, it’s basically a layup. Then they knocked down some open jump shots.”
  • Collins did a good job keeping Hibbert away from the basket but the pace in the third quarter was too much for him. He did manage four rebounds in 12 minutes, good production for him.
  • While Hibbert was dropping in buckets down low, Danny Granger was lighting it up from outside. “They are playing more of an inside-out game,” Teague said.
  • Johnson and Granger always go hard at each other. Granger was the clear winner tonight once Johnson failed to score after halftime.
  • Atlanta’s defense overall was bad during the parts of the game that mattered but Johnson was particularly guilty of losing his man on the perimeter.
  • I’ve covered a lot of games in this building, always sitting underneath the goal near the visitor’s bench. I never say much about officiating one way or another but I’m always amazed how officials let the Pacers beat up on the visiting team, especially around the basket. Seriously, I’ve probably watched 10 games from that seat and it’s the same thing every time.
  • That being said, the Hawks didn’t always stay focused in spite of the contact. Josh especially seemed to let the no-calls bother him and picked up a technical and a couple cheap fouls.
  • The Hawks have to know that’s how it’s going to be here. “We was expecting it,” Joe said. “When Al went down, that was a tough break for us. In that second half we didn’t come out with the intensity we needed.”
  • I can see why Ivan Johnson is a fan favorite. He provides good energy. But he’s also a turnover machine, takes too many jumpers (and shoots too much considering the company he keeps on the floor) and sometimes is too brazen when he goes the basket.
  • However, that was an impressive steal for an and-1 dunk. Dude has wheels for his size. He should have been a linebacker.
  • The Hawks may have to figure out how to score for at least another game without one or two of Horford, McGrady and Williams or maybe all three. “We have to preach ball movement,” Josh said. “Stress it and do it. Otherwise we will have another outing like we had tonight. We can’t have isolation all the time. We have got to spread the ball around, spread the love and get everyone involved.”
  • Lou Amundson went bush league and tried to score with the shot clock off in the final seconds. Collins came over and gave him a hard foul to let him know that’s not cool. Collins got a Flagrant 2 and an ejection for the move.
  • “You dribble the clock out in that situation if you are a true professional,” Collins said. “That was not a Flagrant 2. I gave him a hard foul, that’s all I did. He went in to try to dunk the basketball, first of all. If you are going to stop a dunk you have to deliver a hard foul. That’s all that was.”
  • Lance Stephenson, noted head case from his days back at Cincinnati, seemed to be really proud of his career-high 12 points. He kept flexing at Atlanta’s bench in garbage time. Hawks players didn’t like it, though a couple guys just laughed at him.

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

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138 comments Add your comment

Slimjr

January 12th, 2012
11:39 am

Like DMB said I aint going down there to watch that ish…

Use a remote..

Rufus1

January 12th, 2012
11:40 am

O’Brien

Vlad just finished a contract making 7mil a year and wasn’t worth it, so now he makes 850k.

If Marvin was a free agent, would he get 7.5mil on the open market? What ever he would get on the open market is value, not his UPSIDE money.

Fundamentals

January 12th, 2012
11:44 am

The big dissappointment to me was none of our starters took control when Al was out. It’s fine to lose when you’re down, but make it a good effort. We showed no leadership, no cohesiveness, no team game when the chips were down. Once again we proved we have no real leader, no real TEAM and no real substance when the ish hits the fan. Maybe they’ll learn and grow…I guess Smoove was too tired, became too frustrated and crumbled. Teague can’t handle the pressure of family…he always cracks in Indy. Joe is just Joe, really hot and awesome…when it doesn’t really matter, but fades when the game is on the line.

MC – What’s the prognosis on Al?

Grandad

January 12th, 2012
11:46 am

northcyde

When did I say Joe should have looked for his shot last eve ?

I said “put the team on his back” or some such.

When a “Real” -money- player puts a team on his back
it does not mean shoot more / unless you’re Kobe.
It does mean:
* get important rebounds
* get more than two assts.
* do not turn the ball over
* shut your man down on defense
* inspire your teammates
* and knock down open shots when you get them

Where in Heck did I say -shoot more- {or go} -Iso Joe- ?

Although That is what a “pseudo” star would do …..
and or his spokesman with superficial acuity.

Don’t bring that dime store crap at me.

Slimjr

January 12th, 2012
11:49 am

Betcha Al will be gone for several games, couple of weeks?

Slimjr

January 12th, 2012
11:52 am

“Just a bunch of nice Guys”

“All role players, no Stars”

“Your team is as good as your best player”

Quotes from Sir Charles…

Grandad

January 12th, 2012
11:55 am

northcyde

” LOL fans need to decide which version of JJ that they want ”

I know exactly which version I want:
* amnesty – too late this year
* traded for a “”legit Big”" – still time
* the Joe that is playing the way he has been playing this yr. !
[if you notice, that for the most part, I've been supportive this year]

I guess you cannot criticize the guy around you / he’s perfect !
He doesn’t catch half the crap on this board as does Al !

Just Joe

January 12th, 2012
11:57 am

If its just a sprain, I expect Al back either Saturday or Monday. He will likely be playing somewhat one-handed though. Raising that left arm over his head won’t feel good for a while.

The Spook who sat by the door

January 12th, 2012
11:58 am

The Crab that Saved Atlanta!

I’m tired of all these intellectual analyses with respect to [player] trades, acquisitions, drafts, movements, et cetera. The Hawks need a[n] Crab or Centaur [Archer] to save Atlanta. Joe Johnson was born on Jun. 29, 1981, and Josh Smith was born on Dec. 5, 1985; that makes Joe['s astrological sign] a Cancer[, the Crab] and Josh['s astrological sign] a Sagittarius[, the Centaur/Archer]. Now, of the two [Joe or Josh], who are we going to pick as our “Moses Guthrie” who was played by Julius Erving in “The Fish that Saved Pittsburg”? I say our “Moses Guthrie” should be Joe Johnson since he’s [Joe Johnson] the highest paid player on the team like Moses Guthrie was. Josh Smith’s attitude is just too volatile. The team should get rid of every player who is not a Cancer [Crab], hold tryouts, and assemble a team full of Cancers [Crabs]. [What irony - a team assembled full of Cancers in order to win a championship!] The Hawks should then change its name to the Atlanta Crabs.

I will take the liberty of being the waterboy as played by James Bond III because he was an Aries as am I.

Lastly, who’s going to be our “Mona Mondieu” [team astrologer] as played by Stockard Channing?

Fish and crabs are both sea [aquatic] creatures; I definitely see a link.

Go Atlanta Crabs! {PS, our NBA D-League affiliate should be changed to the Maine Red Claws}

I think Rick Sund and the ASG should at least give this idea some consideration.

Crazy_88

January 12th, 2012
12:04 pm

” Tmac’s knee wont hold up If he plays 30 min ”

Tracy’s knee is fine – he played a lil over 30 min per game last yr when he started for the Pistons at the point for 35 games last yr and he’s in better physical condition this yr vs. last yr.

Back spasms are apart of the game and very common amongst NBA players. Last night is the first time Tracy has had back spasms in almost 2 yrs and I seriously doubt they are the same as what he experienced in Orlando/Houston.

The Hawks are trying to compete for a ring on a very cheap budget. They don’t have the $$$ to upgrade the roster and dont want to do so at the risk of going into the luxury tax. They’re going to ride this bunch as far as they can go in the post season and Tracy is a very important piece for them and a gem of a free agent signing considering they got him for just the vet min. They are probably too cautious with his minutes but they are doing so to minmize the wear and tear on his body in this short season and want to preserve his health as much as neccessary.

Astro Joe

January 12th, 2012
12:06 pm

Al should play tonight. According to many bloggers, Marvin is the only Hawk who suffers injuries that force him to miss games. Al “Wolverine” Horford should be in uniform tonight beating down the bobcats.

Just Joe

January 12th, 2012
12:08 pm

Joe Johnson rankings among SG’s in the league:

17th in FG%
18th in Scoring Per 48 Minutes
20th in 3pt FG%
45th in Rebounds Per 48 Minutes
38th in Steals Per 48 Minutes
20th in Free Throw Attempts Per Game

To Cleveland for Jamison & Parker.
To New Jersey for Okur & Stevenson.

Hollywould

January 12th, 2012
12:49 pm

I am gonna throw up if I keep watching Joe Johnson. I saw that rookie light him up 2 nites ago and now Granger. He is always a step behind, No scoring in the 2nd half. Poster was right when he says he looks good when it doesn’t matter and fades when it is tight. FRAUD

The Truth

January 12th, 2012
1:15 pm

Another Perfect Storm for The Hawks is Brewing!!

Perhaps the most vulnerable position on the Hawks roster is the center. Al Horford injury now exposes the Hawks in the worse way if protracted and he’s show to recover.

Sund decision to pickup Magnum (non-guaranteed contract) and draft Benson was out of a necessity to strengthen the center position. But something happened along the way during training camp that obscured those plans. His name is Ivan (“The Terror”) Johnson. Ivan certainly earned his stay but unfortunately he is not exactly the prototype that’s needed to replace the bigs we lose. The Hawks can certainly use Ivan’s toughness, but they need an athletic center with length off the bench to shore-up Zaza and Collins weaknesses.

When the dust settled, Sund had added to our roster’s frontline; Vlad Rad, a Stretch-4 who can’t seem to finish around the basket and Ivan, an undersized PF.

Now that Al is injured, Zaza and Collins will be asked to step-up perhaps beyond their capabilities to man the middle for 4 quarters. Both players are foul prone, athletically limited and best used off the bench against certain match-ups. Since LD has no other options, against the “wrong” opponents, the Hawks will be exposed.

Too much will be asked of Josh. I see frustration written all on his face. Hopefully Josh has fully grown to be a professional and show us why he is a co-captain. If the Hawks every needed to make a toughness statement, there is no better time than now.

We Shall See

The Truth

January 12th, 2012
1:17 pm

*he’s slow to recover.

northcyde

January 12th, 2012
1:18 pm

Grandad, when had the term “put a team on your back” meant anything other than making a huge offensive impact on a game, especially when talking about basketball? The player you described earlier is a Shane Battier / Tony Allen type of player. Both are good players. But they have never been described as “putting a team on their back” simply because they played great defense and made a few good passes.

No.

Putting a team on his back is what Dirk did in the NBA Finals. Putting a team on his back is what JJ did in Game 4 vs Boston in 2008. That’s putting a team on your back

JJ had 15 points on 5 – 10 shooting at halftime. With Horford out, and no one else on the team outside of Smith playing well offensively, JJ needed to try to put the Hawks on his back by scoring a lot of points. Vlad and Teague were non factors offensively. That’s why JJ needed to shoot more.

Sorry grandad. I can’t let you change the meaning of “put a team on his back.” I just can’t.

The Spook who sat by the door

January 12th, 2012
1:21 pm

that should be “….The Hawks should then change its name to the Atlanta Cancer.”

Go Atlanta Cancer!

Astro Joe

January 12th, 2012
1:27 pm

The Truth, we have 4 PGs (because of Hinroch’s injury) and 4 SGs (if you include TMac’s ability to play there also). IMO, the lack of a young big man is associated with wanting to keep Stack for leadership purposes, Sloan for insurance if Hinrich doesn’t make a timely return AND the fact that Ivan outplayed Benson and Rolle during the shortened camp. But I think there were mitigating factors other than Ivan the Terrible.

J.J.M.

January 12th, 2012
1:31 pm

horford out a month

The Truth

January 12th, 2012
1:40 pm

AJ
Agreed Stack addition is also questionable considering this team is not exactly young anymore. I would say that Stack and Green are redundant from a skill-set stand point.

With a roster of 15, if Al injury last too long, it will be interesting to see what happens.

O'Brien

January 12th, 2012
1:48 pm

How about them Heat? 3 points in OT last night against the Clips. And LeBron has rediscovered his 4thQ disappearing act.

O'Brien

January 12th, 2012
1:59 pm

When the game is getting out of hand, northcyde wants JJ to have a Kobe like attitude…

From Rick Reilly on ESPN;

Kobe: “I’m a scorer first … I’ll try to make the good play, the good pass, kick it out when my teammates are open, but I’m a scorer first. I may shoot 27 times. I may shoot 20 times. Nobody complains when I shoot 10 times. You don’t hear ME complaining when I shoot 10 times. It just depends on the game, you know?”.

Michael Cunningham

January 12th, 2012
2:09 pm

@JSS: “MC. A little U-C vs U-L hate there?”

haha. . . . Stephenson has a long history of jerkiness going back to his days at Lincoln High. it’s held him back because he’s really talented.

Michael Cunningham

January 12th, 2012
2:11 pm

@Prison Mike: “MC, can you ask why there is no free throw coach on staff. Josh needs to to move a few inches to his right at the line or something because he’s leaving a ton of points out there.”

i’m not aware of any teams that employ a coach strictly for free throws. the weird thing is Josh had a good (for him) season at the line last year.

Astro Joe

January 12th, 2012
2:16 pm

MC, if his teammates decided to share the cost of Collins’ fine based on the flagrant foul last night, is that something that you would expect to hear about?

Michael Cunningham

January 12th, 2012
2:20 pm

@doc: “hmmm a little bad cardinal blood there at cinncy mc?”

Stephenson would be a head case no matter where he went. but, as it happens, i got to see it a few times because he played at Cincy.

bigman needed

January 12th, 2012
2:22 pm

the hornets have a surplus of centers with kaman and okafor and are going nowhere.

The hawks could package marvin and zaza for okafor

Marvin and okafor are #2 overall picks. Both have 3 years left, but okafor’s contract is larger and hornets will be glad to unload. Marvin has more upside and scoring at this point. Okafor gives us a serviceable defensive big to slide Josh to 3 and put Al at 4.

Michael Cunningham

January 12th, 2012
2:25 pm

@Astro Joe: “MC, if his teammates decided to share the cost of Collins’ fine based on the flagrant foul last night, is that something that you would expect to hear about?”

hmmm . . . don’t think i’ve ever heard of that happening anywhere. but, yeah, if it happened i’d think guys would talk about it.

Crazy_88

January 12th, 2012
2:28 pm

My problem with the Hawks is probably the same as everyone else:

1. They don’t have any playmakers or guys with traditonal point guard skills at the 1 position.

Teague, Pargo, Willie Green are all scoring guards who natural instinct is to shoot first. They’re not skilled in creating offense for others. Hinrich is the closest thing the Hawks have to a traditional PG and even he’s more of a shooting guard with some point guard skills.

I see the logic in playing Teague at the 1 besides Hinrich being injured he’s the only one on this team with the foot speed and athleticism to keep up with the Rondo’s, Derrick Rose’s and Chris Paul at that lead guard position but there is a lot that he needs to learn about running a team and setting up his teammates.

2. The Hawks don’t have a legit low post threat.

The Hawks need a guy in the post who is going to take up some space, protect the rim and gobble up rebounds with the plethora of perimeter players they have on this team. Horford is not a player who teams need to double or fear in the paint. Josh Smith is SF trying to play PF because of his hops and athleticism but he just isn’t comfortable playing in the box..

3. They have no offense discipline.

Too much Iso..too much recklessness when driving to the hole…too many errant jumpers

I’ve watched alot of NBA basketball in the last 30 yrs and there’s a few things I’ve noticed and learned over the yrs.

1. If you’re going to play guys out of position than you better have either a really good point guard or a very good offensive system in place. Phil Jackson won 11 rings with the likes of Steve Kerr, John Paxon, BJ Armstrong, Derek Fisher because of the Triangle Offense that doesn’t require you have a tradional PG to run the system. All those guys had to do was go spot up and wait for Jordan and Pippen to find them in the offense.

In Phoenix Mike D’Antoni got away with playing a bunch of guys out of position such as Amare at Center, Shawn Marion at the 4 because he had a great PG in Steve Nash who not only run his system but he was a true PG who can still create plays for others when the system isn’ working.

Slimjr

January 12th, 2012
2:30 pm

J.J.M.

January 12th, 2012
1:31 pm

“horford out a month”

Ouch!!

Well at least he’ll get to spend more time with Miss Universe! VAVA VAOOM!

Astro Joe

January 12th, 2012
2:32 pm

MC, too bad. If I guy “takes one for the team” then the team should ante up.

I wouldn’t expect the Hawks to find a 30+ minutes center if Horford is out for extended time. May have to cut Stack or Sloan and sign someone like Pryzbilla. Then have a 3-headed center to split the 48 minutes (Zaza/Collins/Pryzbilla).

Slimjr

January 12th, 2012
2:34 pm

You guys have been screamin from the mountain top about acquiring a BIG since preseason!..

I believe you prayers and admonitions have been heard and will be answered shortly when All NBA put his left shoulder into a mountain last night and went down like boo got shot!(not funny)…

Najeh Davenpoop

January 12th, 2012
3:08 pm

Al Horford tore his pectoral muscle and is out for the season.

Astro Joe

January 12th, 2012
3:11 pm

SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
Hawks center Al Horford expected to be out 3-4 months with torn left pectoral muscle, source tells Yahoo! Sports.

joey

January 12th, 2012
3:15 pm

this kills our chance of advancing in the playoffs we dont not make a big trade to get a good center

Ken Strickland

January 12th, 2012
3:16 pm

OBRIEN-Do you think Radmanovic’s much lower salary figured into him literally quitting on DEF, which ultimately got him pulled from the gm? You can bet Marvin would have attempted to close out on his man, rather than just standing back 5-7′ and giving him an uncontested 3pt attempt. From a defensive perspective, Marvin definitely gives a lot more than VRad, and is more versatile offensively.

Sautee

January 12th, 2012
3:16 pm

How long until TS posts that he did it on purpose?

Michael Cunningham

January 12th, 2012
3:20 pm

new blog posted. shutting down this thread.

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