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Atlanta Hawks: About their defense

11:48 pm January 4, 2012, by Michael Cunningham

Bradford Doolittle was at Hawks-Bulls and writes a thoughtful piece at Basketball Prospectus about his observations of the Hawks’ (so far) improved defense (ranked third in efficiency before tonight’s games). It’s worth a read.

In the post, Doolittle says the Hawks made “no major personnel additions to explain the defensive improvement.” But I think they have and it (possibly) does.

(All of the following comes with the necessary Small Sample Size Qualifier.)

The Hawks have more defensive talent and depth than last season (and probably more versatility, too). It’s now more Jeff Teague (not new, but new to getting most of the point guard minutes) and Jannero Pargo, no Mike Bibby and Jamal Crawford. It’s more Tracy McGrady (size, rebounds) and Vladimir Radmonovic (steals, blocks), no Mo Evans and Damien Wilkins. It’s (eventually, I’m assuming) more Zaza Pachulia, no Josh Powell.

Look at Atlanta’s on-court, off-court numbers at basketballvalue.com. Notice that all of the bench guys have better defensive ratings than all of the starters. There are likely factors at play here beyond the Small Sample Size Qualifier–for instance, the Hawks have yet to face a team with much scoring depth–but so far there’s a striking difference in the distribution of those numbers as compared to last season.

Doolitttle also writes: “There was nothing schematically that I saw to explain Atlanta’s defensive success. We’ve seen in the past that Atlanta is capable of putting the screws to teams defensively as they did during last year’s playoffs and perhaps Drew’s insistence on that approach has simply gotten through.”

I think this, in combination with better defensive players playing move minutes, might help to explain the improvement (so far).

Other than the occasional trapping and ball pressure and the zone alignments used at times against Miami and Chicago, the Hawks haven’t noticeably altered their schemes. But, subjectively, they are playing defense with more vigor and they have the long, athletic players to make things happen when they commit to it. With the exception of their game against Heat, whom the Hawks wisely wanted to slow down, I think they so far are meeting Larry Drew’s goal of “being a little more of the aggressor.”

There are some numbers that may support that subjective view.

Before last night’s games, the Hawks ranked eighth in opponent turnover rate. They ranked 29th in that category last season. Atlanta so far has the eighth-best opponent assist rate this season; last season its opponent assist rate was ninth-worst.

With the Small Sample Size Qualifier in mind, perhaps those numbers mean the Hawks are making opponents play faster and sloppier. According to Synergy Sports Technology, the Hawks rank fifth in the league in points per play allowed (0.81). They are No. 1 against post-ups and–surprise!–No. 4 defending in transition. Plus, Atlanta is holding opponents to 60.8 percent shooting at the rim, ninth-best in the league.

Some individual players also are making more box score defensive plays.

Teague has so far maintained his career steals rate while playing more minutes (literally–at this moment his steals per 36 minutes is exactly the same as during his first two seasons). Horford has seen a spike in his blocks and steals rates. Marvin Williams’ steals rate is up.

The other day at shootaround I asked Jerry Stackhouse which team in his career he considered to be the best defensively. He picked his Dallas teams from 2004-05 to 2008-09. Those units’ defensive efficiency ranks, in order: 9th, 11th, 5th, 9th, and 17th. Avery Johnson was the coach for 18 games of Stackhouse’s first season in Dallas and the all of the next three, while Rick Carlisle was coach for the fifth year.

So what were the characteristics of those teams? Stackhouse:

Everybody was just looking to help each other. We assumed that–even though we had good individual defenders–we assumed everybody was a bad defender and all four guys had to help. Like, if a guy was isolated on the wing and even though we knew his guy was guarding him, everybody leaned to help. You had to stick to the principles. We always said, ‘We are not allowing middle.’ If you allowed middle, you knew and everybody knew that you were the breakdown on the play whether they scored or not. They got into the paint and they put us under more stress than they had to because you allowed middle. A good defensive team has got to hold each other accountable. They know when and where they make mistakes. It don’t have to be pointed out to you that you made a mistake. You were the first one to know, ‘Damn, I made a mistake.

And what is the defensive potential of this Hawks team?

“It’s there, man,” Stackhouse said. “We have just got to harp on it a little bit more. In training camp, that’s all you are focused on. Then when it gets into the crux of the season, you revert back to bad habits. The system is built up, and if you do something against it, there is nothing built in to help. That’s what I see this group has got to get.”

Stackhouse added that the Hawks have the physical tools to be an elite defensive team: “That’s half the battle. It’s one thing if you can’t do it. We can do it.”

If the Hawks can keep up this defensive effort once the The Small Sample Size Qualifier no longer applies, they could be on their way to improving as a team with the same core.

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

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185 comments Add your comment

Hmmmm

January 5th, 2012
5:22 pm

“The main problem with the Hawks has been coaching, GM and ownership. Woody and ASG wasted JJ BEST YEARS with BAD coaching and keeping a BAD coach too LOOOONG.”

SPEAKING THE TRUTH RIGHT HERE RUFUS, SOMEONE PASS THE COLLECTION PLATE LOL.

HAWKS HAVE NEVER INVESTED PROPERLY IN THE COACH AND FRONT OFFICE, AND PAY FOR IT LATER. WOODSON WAS A CAREER ASSISTANT, SO IF YOU REPLACE HIM, IT HAS TO BE WITH AN EXPERIENCE HEAD COACH RIGHT? WRONG, ASG CHOSE ANOTHER ASSISTANT. *FACEPALM* LOL.

I AM HOPING THEY WILL CHANGE THEIR THINKING IF THIS TEAM CAN’T GET IT DONE AND GO AFTER A PROVEN BIG NAME WHO IS ALL ABOUT DEFENSE LIKE LARRY BROWN OR JEFF VAN GUNDY BUT THAT’S WISHFUL THINKING.

drmaryb.[*_*].

January 5th, 2012
5:25 pm

The Cherry Tree!

honest_abe! Sup man? I see you got to JM before I did. LOL, we pretty much made the same responses.

Scroll On! Past 4 paragraphs of caps – all day long. My old tired eyes can’t deal with all that stuff. I step on the gas unless I see my boys: GM-JeJe and Slim, JR!

Them my dudes right there. Even then, my boys keep the “holler” short and sweet. This Hmmmm dude is a trip though. LOL @ Hmmmm.

Can’t wait till 7PM! Hurr – Up!

MattP

January 5th, 2012
5:26 pm

Rufus1,

I did say those thing you quoted and put my name by then, KevinM said them. But I did like to hear what you said about them.

“JJ BEST YEARS”

I do agree the Ownership/GM/Coach the problem but what you are saying if they wasted his best years why is he still worth max contract? Why is he worth locking up for 4 years if he is past his best years? We have the chance to amnesty him and it should be used on him. Not because he is bad like Arenas or Lewis but he is not worth his contract. The hawks really need a chance and I think this is one start.

I do hope they get a new GM/Coach this off season. I would be happy if the gave Wilkins a shot a GM and brought in an experienced coach. but no telling what ASG will do.

Rufus1

January 5th, 2012
5:28 pm

Hmmmm

That is the CRITICISM Arthur Blank had….ASG doesn’t spend good money on their STAFF and MANAGERS….Spoken from a self made man.

Rufus1

January 5th, 2012
5:29 pm

Sorry, MATTP

drmaryb.[*_*].

January 5th, 2012
5:31 pm

Rufus1

Keep your day job man. You reason worse than the ASKG.
Can you even spell the words: HOF 1st Ballot? Do you see one of those on this roster?

Stay on the bus – Rufus1. You wild boy.

Hmmmm

January 5th, 2012
5:31 pm

GEARON WAS RIGHT ABOUT ONE THING, THE HAWKS DO HAVE A BIG PAYROLL, AND I BELIEVE THEY ARE ENTITLED TO WANT TO STAY BELOW THE TAX LEVEL.

FANS NEED TO GET OFF THE IDEA THAT MORE MONEY WILL TRANSLATE INTO MORE SUCCESS, 1) IT’S NOT ALWAYS THE CASE AND 2) THE BUILDING ISN’T FULL EVERY NIGHT SO WE CAN’T TRIP.

THE NY METS AND WASHINGTON REDSKINS HAVE ABSURD PAYROLLS, BUT YOU WON’T SEE THEM HOISTING TROPHIES UNTIL YOUR BABIES HAVE BABIES BECAUSE OF DUMB DECISIONS BY OWNERSHIP. ASG/GEARON’S MISTAKE IS THINKING YOU CAN PAY PLAYERS HANDSOMELY THEN HIRE COACHES AND GMS FOR CHEAP AND GET RESULTS. UHHHHH NO. HE HAS YET TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT.

Rufus1

January 5th, 2012
5:37 pm

MattP

I believe we can still win with Joe.

Look at the NBA. There are no true DOMINATE TEAMS in the EAST or WEST. We just beat the “Best team” in the league on their floor and we held the “2nd Best team” to 76pts.

We accomplished going to the 2nd round of the playoffs for 3 years in a row…..WITH VERY BAD COACHING!!!

LD at least looks like he has changed his coaching philosophy to a DEFENSIVE approach and that may get us over the HUMP…I am willing to be a little more PATIENT.

Hmmmm

January 5th, 2012
5:39 pm

RUFUS1,

CORRECT. BLANK DOESN’T HAVE A SUPER BOWL YET, BUT HIS METHODS ARE IN LINE WITH OTHER SUCCESFUL OWNERS. YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR DECISION MAKERS (SCOUTS, COACHES, EXECS) BECAUSE THEY ARE THE KEY TO EVERYTHING. CONTRAST THAT WITH DANIEL SNYDER: NO SUCCESS BECAUSE HE’S TOO BUSY TRYING TO OUTSPEND JERRY JONES. GEARON COULD LEARN A LOT OF THOSE GUYS.

Rufus1

January 5th, 2012
5:40 pm

drmaryb.[*_*].

I still believe basketball is a team sport, we have a better team than D12……and I am a DREAMER :)

drmaryb.[*_*].

January 5th, 2012
5:42 pm

The Numbers!

This week Dwight posted his 34th (20/20) game to tie Shaq’s career in that category. Dwight’s 28/23 game this week is something Joe and Al will never see – ever!

I you can’t draft that type of player – you trade for him. These opportunities come along like Haley’s Comet. Once a life time.

You don’t walk … don’t run … You fly to get that deal done!
Come on Rufus1 – let go! LOL. You get Dwight today and worry about Joe, Al and Josh later. If it don’t work, at least you tried. Go back to the lottery and get lucky next time.

I don’t want to be good enough to make the play offs for 10 years and never a chance to win anything. Go see the Braves 100 penchant flags at “The Ted” if you love MEDIOCRATY so much.

Rufus1

January 5th, 2012
5:43 pm

drmaryb.[*_*].

I am a Hawks fan, I have to be a little CRAZY.

MattP

January 5th, 2012
5:44 pm

Rufus1,

Lets just hope good things happen this off season, new GM and possibly a new coach, lol. I do want to see how LD does with the rest of this season. He looks good so far on defense and it’s only 6 games into the seasons. Only 2 game preseason could be the blame for the poor rotations. But I still hate the fact he doesn’t like to work in rookies, specially Ivan because he really isn’t much of a rookie.

Rufus1

January 5th, 2012
5:47 pm

drmaryb.[*_*].

I want D12. Let me make that CLEAR…I am not STUPID. I just don’t want to rebuild.

D12 for Josh and AL, I will make that deal in a minute, because he gives the Hawks in one player what they give in 2….But I want to keep Joe and Teague.

TMACfan

January 5th, 2012
5:53 pm

Go TMAC!

KevinM

January 5th, 2012
5:56 pm

“You don’t walk … don’t run … You fly to get that deal done!
Come on Rufus1 – let go! LOL. You get Dwight today and worry about Joe, Al and Josh later. If it don’t work, at least you tried. Go back to the lottery and get lucky next time.”

DMB – entertainment reporter and DEAD ON with this comment. You aren’t winning anything other than a first round playoff series with Joe as the CEO.

And the Bulls get into luxury land next year, thanks for the DRose contract: Rose will be making 30 percent of the Bulls’ salary cap, thanks to a new rule in the collective bargaining agreement dubbed the “Derrick Rose Rule.”

The rule allows a player finishing his rookie contract to make 30 percent of a team’s salary cap — up from 25 percent — if he’s twice been voted an All-Star starter, twice been voted All-NBA or won an MVP award.

Here Rufus: “Rufus1

January 5th, 2012
5:16 pm
“Rufus, what team do you know that has a contract like Joe’s that WILL NOT go into the luxury tax to advance further in the playoffs?” KevinM

The Bulls.”

Let’s see hear…DRose will average 18.98M for 5 years, upping his current salary from 6.99M….yep, hello luxury tax.

Gearon would never agree to such…he would gut the roster like he told Billy to before.

KevinM

January 5th, 2012
6:00 pm

You get a chance at D12, you let ‘Otis my man’ assemble a list of what it will take……

You work it out and trump Jersey, Cuban and any GM named Kupchak, Ainge, or special consultant West.

Wake up Sund….its time to earn that cushy seat you’ve been sitting in for 4 years.

drmaryb.[*_*].

January 5th, 2012
6:00 pm

My Dreamer!

“I still believe basketball is a team sport, we have a better team than D12……and I am a DREAMER ” -Rufus1-
____________

Yes, you are a dreamer! Me too (sniggles).
In response to your post here: Rufus1 baby … We don’t give flap-jacks ’bout the Magic team. Our goal is not to be better than them – I want them killed dead! So, I can eat their kids!

You feel me? I wan a CHAMPIONSHIP man!

Yeah, I like peanut butter and jelly, pimento cheese, chicken, fish and ham sandwiches … But, I LOVE a porter house steak! Rufus1 dear, honestly boy … I’ve never had a porterhouse steak before. But, if my Hawks win a trophy? I might have to treat myself.

Like Kellen Winslow said, “I don’t give a damn about nobody but this “U”!”

Buddy Grizzard

January 5th, 2012
6:29 pm

Josh Smith blew it… watch the highlight again. Josh shadowed Rose the entire play. Joe never moved because his man was Deng, the out of bounds man. He got caught looking at Josh’s man, Rose, while Deng cut back door.

Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?

January 5th, 2012
6:49 pm

Yeah, I like peanut butter and jelly, pimento cheese, chicken, fish and ham sandwiches … But, I LOVE a porter house steak! Rufus1 dear, honestly boy … I’ve never had a porterhouse steak before. But, if my Hawks win a trophy? I might have to treat myself.
======

Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?

January 5th, 2012
6:49 pm

^^^ Round of Applause!

Buddy Grizzard

January 5th, 2012
6:50 pm

Joseph Goodman: Dwyane Wade doubtful for tonight. LeBron James is a game-time decision. about 16 minutes ago

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1idBBwBSR

Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?

January 5th, 2012
6:51 pm

Wait what?

“Josh Smith blew it… watch the highlight again. Josh shadowed Rose the entire play. Joe never moved because his man was Deng, the out of bounds man. He got caught looking at Josh’s man, Rose, while Deng cut back door.”

Smith blew it because Joe got caught looking at Rose?

Anyways, you’re wrong because Horford can be quoted saying the plan was to double Rose.

Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?

January 5th, 2012
6:55 pm

D12 for Josh and AL, I will make that deal in a minute, because he gives the Hawks in one player what they give in 2….But I want to keep Joe and Teague.
——
One question. Can he fill 2 roster spots?
No.

Teague- Joe-Marvin – D12 – ?

Who you gonna play as the 5th starter? T-Mac? Vlad? Pargo? Willie Green? a busted up over the hill Hinrich?
Wouldn’t it be funny if you do that trade and then D12 bolts back to Orlando.

MattP

January 5th, 2012
6:58 pm

Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?,

It would probably be Vlad starting and Ivan playing with the 2nd unit.

Wabe

January 5th, 2012
7:09 pm

Wade out?

That makes things a lot less interesting…

yodaddybrother

January 5th, 2012
7:20 pm

ready for the Hawks to administer another beat down of the Miami Heat

Wabe

January 5th, 2012
7:20 pm

Both LBJ and Wade out according to ESPN.com…

Wabe

January 5th, 2012
7:21 pm

That just made this game a lot less appealing…

JaeEvolution

January 5th, 2012
7:25 pm

This team won’t know what to do without D-Wade or Lebron creating easy buckets for them, should be an easy win and I expect big game from Josh and Joe.

Najeh Davenpoop

January 5th, 2012
7:25 pm

Wade and LeBron are both out tonight.

Wabe

January 5th, 2012
7:25 pm

Someone should clown on these fools the way they clowned on Dirk during last season’s playoffs…

Runner-

January 5th, 2012
7:28 pm

so basically we’re playing toronto from 2 years ago lol…

drmaryb.[*_*].

January 5th, 2012
7:29 pm

One Trick Pony!

That was such simpleton thinking: can D12 play two spots. You reconfigure the whole team – “You Big Dummie!”

Dwight doesn’t come alone in a trade AND you can always involve a 3rd team for talent trades. Why do I even bother?

Michael Cunningham

January 5th, 2012
7:39 pm

new blog posted. shutting down this thread.

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