Atlanta Hawks: Rockets 95, Hawks 84
Houston–The Hawks say they expected the Rockets to come out firing even though they were playing their third game in as many nights and despite the travel headaches upon their return to Houston. “That always happens, when a team is wall and you find out what they are about,” Al Horford said. “This team came out right off the bat they jumped quick on us and were never really able to recover from the fist quarter.”
- So if the Hawks weren’t caught flat-footed, it means their first game against an opponent with a variety of talented offensive players and good execution showed their defense still has a ways to go. Or maybe it’s also that they don’t match up well with a team that can spread the floor, dribble penetrate, share the ball and make shots–and do all of that with speed.
- “They pushed the tempo on us and we didn’t seem to have any defensive energy,” Tracy McGrady said. “We let Kyle Lowry push the ball up and find shooters. [Luis] Scola was playing well. You’ve got Kevin Martin hitting threes from all over the place. Chase Budinger is there in the corner. I thought they would have tired legs, but they came in and played well. You’ve got to give them credit.”
- The Rockets immediately took it to the Hawks. Only foul trouble for Scola, Larry Drew’s zone defense and their inevitable weary legs late slowed them down. It certainly wasn’t Atlanta’s D.
- “They played their third game in three nights and came out and played at a higher level than we did,” Drew said. “I told the guys that is totally unacceptable.”
- In the first period Houston scored 22 points in the paint and recorded assists on eight of its 13-field goals. Atlanta offered little resistance at the basket and struggled to create anything but jump shots. By the time they did more of both the Rockets were on their way to the W.
- There was some of the same “they just made shots” refrain from the Hawks but the energy, rotations and close-outs looked lackluster to me. There has been a gradual deterioration in all those areas since the first game, and the Hawks ran up against an opponent good enough to exploit them.
- “We didn’t fly around and contest like we did the first couple games, particularly the first game,” Drew said. “We reverted back to short closeouts and not getting out there with a sense of urgency. With our theory as far as closeouts you have got to make them put the ball on the floor. We did not do that.”
- The contrast between Lowry and Jeff Teague was clear tonight. Both players are surrounded by offensive talent but only one of them got his teammates going. “I hope my young guy can take a look at that and see how you can impact the game and not score points,” Drew said. “Sometimes scoring can be overrrated. Good point guards still find a way to impact the game irregardless if they score.”
- Of course, it helps that Lowry’s teammates know their strengths and weaknesses and play to them. Luis Scola took it to Horford, who was cross-matched, with nifty moves around the basket and fired up Js within his range and only when open. Martin, who was off to a slow start this season, came off screens for clean looks or spotted up and waited Lowry’s kick-outs. Budinger spotted up for 3s or used his athleticism to clean up around the basket. Houston’s spacing and crispness were superb.
- Josh Smith had another erratic offensive night. There were missed Js, wayward drives to the basket, strong scores at the rim and eight-free throw attempts (but he only made four). For the second night in a row Josh and Al saw an opposing big dominate the boards–carer-high 15 rebounds for Jordan Hill, who ain’t exactly Kris Humphries.
- I thought Marvin Williams was solid again but he played just 21 minutes (McGrady’s strong night had something to do with that, too). He started 3 for 3 while his teammates were 0 for 5.
- Joe Johnson never consistently bullied Martin on the block the way you would expect. There’s no way he shouldn’t get to the free-throw line in that matchup. A night after Joe seemed to relish schooling MarShon Brooks he let K-Mart get the best of him.
- Jason Collins’ debut didn’t go well. This wasn’t the kind of game where he could be effective. Houston ratcheted up its assault on the rim during his time on the floor. Zaza Pachulia also found it difficult to do his thing with the furious pace. Vladimir Radmanovic (0 for 5) looked a bit out of sorts again.
- Interesting, though, that the plus-minus numbers show that the bench guys held their own while the starters got drilled.
- McGrady, back in Houston for just the second time since he left, helped lead Atlanta’s brief rally in the fourth quarter. The boos grew louder as he played better. “It is what it is,” he said. “I don’t give a [bleep] about that. I am used to it. It was [also] Toronto and then Orlando. Who cares.”
- McGrady’s rebounding adds a valuable dimension to the Hawks. He’s going to get some against opposing second units.
- The Hawks are at Miami on Monday and at Chicago on Tuesday. A three-game losing streak after the 3-0 start is a real possibility.
- “It’s a challenge for our team to see how we care going to compete,” T-Mac said. “Are we going to crawl back and be pouting about this loss? Or are we going to come out and compete against the Eastern Conference champs on Monday? If we want to go and be mentioned in the same breath as Miami or Chicago, we have got to go do something.”
- Happy New Year, blog people. Peace and prosperity to you and yours.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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284 comments Add your comment
Rufus1
January 1st, 2012
11:36 am
Correct:
The fact that he ended the game with only 7 shots and 20min is an LD problem and NOT the #2 picks problem.
Rolando
January 1st, 2012
11:37 am
“Both Josh and Al have become more reliant on jump shooting under LD tenure.”
This is true. You’ve got to admit though, even though it’s early in the season, Al really seems to have toned it down with the jumpers. He’s looking to drive and post up a lot more than he’s looking to shoot the midrange shot right. At least it seems that way right now, it’s too early to tell for sure. I watched some of the FIBA Americas tournament and Horford didn’t shoot a lot of jump shots during that either, which was interesting.
L.D. definitely encourages a lot of jump shooting with his offense though, and Josh continues to fall in love with the jump shot.
af6
January 1st, 2012
11:40 am
I hope this doesnt ruffle any feathers. So here goes nothing, I am not a regular blogger because I don’t care to watch the games but reading these blogs are baffling to me because I have read several times that Teague is not this and not that because he does not make his teammates better. WHAT TEAMMATES? The coach must get the team to follow the gameplan he gives to his young point guard. A virtually second year player with only a handful of starts cant demand respect from old dogs he just has to play well and earn their respect but these Hawk veterans are selfish and jealous punks. The guys on the floor with him have been playing the same way for the last five years. I ask you all which one of the starters has gotten better. Neither of them have added anything new to their game; not JJ, JS, AH, MW, or even ZP and on top of that the dumb organization has not gotten a center. I know you guys love your Hawks but in sports there is a simple thing called the Eye Test and the Hawks don’t look like a championship team. I don’t see the talent most of you think is on the team. The stuff between the ears is supposed to be part of that talent one can’t separate the two.
darrell starks
January 1st, 2012
11:41 am
HOWARD, REDICK FOR HORFORD, MARVIN, ZAZA
STARTERS TEAGUE, REDICK, JOE, JOSH, DWIGHT
BENCH PARGO, GREEN, TMAC, VLAD, COLLINS
RESERVE IVAN, STACK
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STRETCH
January 1st, 2012
11:51 am
Sources told ESPN.com that the Hawks’ offer to Orlando definitely featured $124 million guard Joe Johnson. Expanding such an offer to include Horford, an All-Star in the East as well, would obviously be harder for the Hawks to digest, but Josh Smith’s close friendship with Howard, as Michael Cunningham of the Atlanta Journal Constitution suggested this week, would seem to give Atlanta cause to keep Smith around. ESPN.com
They offer JJ after giving him all that money and then they HOPE Orlando falls for it.
Folks, this clearly proves management is NOT capable of running a franchise.
Jerome
January 1st, 2012
11:54 am
af6,
I agree that some of our starters are selfish veterans, and sometimes they may not listen to Teague, but that is not true for everyone. Marvin and Al are nowhere near selfish. Both of them take fewer shots than they probably should and are always looking to pass the ball if a play is not called for one of them. As far as the criticism of Teague, it’s legit. He misses a lot of things a natural point guard wouldn’t. For example, after Al sets a pick for him, he almost never passes the ball back to Al when Al pops out for an open jump shot. That’s one of the easiest and most basic plays for a point guard to make. Teague does a good job of defending his position, controlling the pace on offense and penetrating, but you have to admit that his playmaking for others needs a lot of work. Yes, sometimes Josh and Joe can be black holes on offense and they interrupt a play that he is trying to run, but that’s not the case all of the time. Teague often looks like he isn’t even trying to look for the open man. He plays best when he’s being aggressive, and sometimes he makes great passes to others for easy baskets, but most of the time, it seems like his idea of being aggressive is getting to the hoop and scoring himself. True playmakers are tough to find. With Teague on the floor we have to rely even more on isolation for our scoring. Now, even Al has to isolate or crash the glass for most of his points, when he used to get a lot of his baskets assisted.
Also, when you ask about which starters have gotten better, I don’t know if you are talking about them improving from last season to now or if you are talking about them improving since they came into the league to now. If you are talking about the latter, guys like Marvin and Al have obviously improved. Al didn’t have a reliable jump shot when he came into the league and he is now deadly from midrange. Marvin couldn’t shoot 3’s when he first came in. Now, if you are saying that guys didn’t improve over the summer, that remains to be seen. We need to watch more games to be able to tell. Based upon the first 4 games, it looks to me like Al has made some improvements in the post. I haven’t really seen him use new moves, but he’s been quicker and more disciplined down there. It’s like he knows what he wants to do now when he gets the ball inside and he’s more assertive and quicker in the post now. I can’t say for sure if he’s improved down there yet, since the season just started, but we’ll see. He also looks like he also improved his driving ability. It’s too early to tell though. It’s too early to tell if anyone has really improved yet.
MattP
January 1st, 2012
12:07 pm
STRETCH,
I agree, I find it funny how they give Johnson this massive contract alittle over a year ago and now they are wanting Orlando to take him.
Nate ArchiBALL
January 1st, 2012
12:13 pm
Early observations……Only reason Al isn’t shooting more jumpers is due to the fact that teams are not giving him that wide open set shot that they gave him last year. Check out how after he sets the picks the defense does not leave him wide open anymore……I’ve also noticed that he didn’t work on going left during the off season….still forcing his moves to the basket to the right.
gail
January 1st, 2012
12:14 pm
Let’s trade Horford, see what we can get for him.
Prison Mike
January 1st, 2012
12:18 pm
I’m ready for the big lineup. Al doesn’t like to bang on both ends of the floor and JS weight loss is effecting his strength. Al also doesn’t like to take charges where Twin is good at it.
Pargo can’t handle most of the pgs in the league and should be let go when Kirk is healthy. This bench lineup will look MUCH MUCH better during the playoffs. I really like this lineup when the regulars are struggling.
Kirk
Marv
Tmac
Rad
Zaza
ag
January 1st, 2012
12:30 pm
Based on some of the comments,somebody got in Teagues ear and told him he was scoring to much. He even said it himself after yesterday’s game, they guys were telling him they were open on his drives. Teague is a lot better than Lowry, but he just has to play his game.
I think Marvin got a raw deal also. You cannot be the hot man and be the first one out. He should have taken out Joe and played T-Mac and Marvin or even used tT-Mac, Joe and Marvin together.
af6
January 1st, 2012
12:37 pm
Jerome
I must say you made some great points on Teague however, let’s not forget he was on the bench majority of his rookie season because Woodson would not play rookies. He only started playing significant minutes in the playoffs and then a lockout… The improvements in Al’s game maybe the only bright spot but his midrange or lowpost game is not going to scare anyone. I must say Marvin can make a three pointer but will it not cause defenses to break down because they don’t want M to spot up and break a game open. I just find it hard to criticize a young player who doesn’t have a coach or a system to flourish. this team has many flaws that were prevalent before Teague and will not be corrected with Hinreich. If you need more games to see improvement from the players you support give Teague the same consideration. I am only a casual fan because it’s my hometown team but like I said in earlier post I don’t watch the games much and mainly because the style of basketball is horrible. Even when they win it’s not smooth. And the embarrassment on the National stage is hard to digest.
I will give them the benefit of the doubt that this could be a championship caliber squad.
ryan
January 1st, 2012
12:38 pm
Andrew Bynum looked pretty good after his suspension i would not be surprised if D12 still ends with the Lakers .
Ryan
January 1st, 2012
12:38 pm
Exactly, Teague is never going to be a 10 assist guy, esp with this team. But can Teague do 15 and 5? yeah he can. People getting on Teague for his scoring is dumb. No one else COULD SCORE so he did. So last night Teague takes a back seat and lets Josh and Joe hold the ball and dribble out the clock and our offense stagnates. Imagine that. Let Teague play his game. That was a good pass to T-Mac cutting to the basket.
Quote of the Day — January 1, 2012 | JockSpin.com
January 1st, 2012
12:53 pm
[...] Larry Drew: “We reverted back to short closeouts and not getting out there with a sense of urgency. With our theory as far as closeouts you have got to make them put the ball on the floor. We did not do that.” [...]
Scoop
January 1st, 2012
1:10 pm
@MC
Excellent post-game analysis MC. You covered everything that should be covered:
-why in the #@!! has Marvin been benched in the 2nd half for two games in a row????? He has arguably been our best player, having incredible starts to our games. And yet he is the first one to be subbed and the last one to come back into the games….
-You also mentioned Smoove had another erratic game. I disagree, he’s been consistent, consistently terrible!!!! Horrible decision making, lackluster effort defensively(which is usually his only positive contribution), and the worst part is his ATTITUDE!!!!!!!!!! When he takes a horrible shot or a backwards heave at the basket and complains about not getting call. He whines way too much and it rubs off on the rest of the team.
Joe got a tech last night because he was frustrated about getting outplayed by Kevin Martin. Joe has been getting blown by defensively. He’s too flat footed and doesnt move well laterally. He should move to the small forward. Marvin should move to the 4 and BENCH SMOOVE!!!!!!
-LD yanked Teague early in the 2nd half for not contributing. WHY NOT DO THE SAME WITH SMOOVE?????? Smoove was 1-5 on non lay-up shot attempts and had several turnovers. Even still, he camps out stubbornly on the perimeter, waiting to take another jump shot the opposing defense is baiting him to take.
I lol’d when I saw Horford wise up. Horf had the ball in the post when SMoove clapped his hands for a pass to him on the perimeter. Horford just shook him off and cleared him out. Another time, Horford drove to the basket and found Teague under the basket instead of an open Smoove on the 3-point line.
Why did we not exploit Marvin on Budinger last night????/ It wasnt because Marvin didnt try because he posted him up in the middle several times but couldnt get the ball…….AND THEN HE GETS BENCHED!!!!!!!!!!
The Hawks should have crushed this team like you said MC. No excuses.
MC, can you find any answers as to why Marvin is getting inconsistent PT and why LD continues to allow Smoove the free reign that Teague and Marvin dont get? Also, why do we have a robotic rotation. I want to see different lineups and matchup exploitations. Zaza and Horford, TMac Joe and Marvin on the wings, Smoove at center. This is time in the season to try some things that can be taken advantage of come post season for new wrinkles.
On a positive note, i really liked our spacing offensively. That had been lacking a few years ago, and we got a lot of good open shots with our ball movement. The problem is Smoove took too many of them. More and more, i feel like he is the crux holding this team back. He needs to change his game and quit taking jumpers or we should bench him and start Zaza. Look at the Heat and what Lebron and DWade are doing, if they can focus on attacking the basket and not settling for jumpers then Smoove should definitely be able to. The question is can his ego handle it?
Sautee
January 1st, 2012
1:13 pm
Lacsho,
Good to see you back, man. Happy New Year.
Scoop
January 1st, 2012
1:16 pm
BTW for those bashing Horford for taking jump shots-He was the best jump shooter outside of 15 feet last year!!!!!!!!!! That’s right, better than Dirk.
Scoop
January 1st, 2012
1:18 pm
Edit -Horford was best mid-range jump shooter last year.
Astro Joe
January 1st, 2012
1:21 pm
It seems as if Marvin and TMac have become mutually exclusive. That is a problem when they are two of the better performers early in the season. I wonder if LD is concerned about TMac playing SG and having to use more energy chasing smaller and quicker players. The other interesting thing is that Joe is pretty much exclusively playing SG now, last year he played SF a fair amount of time. One would hope that he would spend a little more time in the post and driving into the lane if he is going to be mostly defnded by guys like Kevin Martin, Dwayne Wade and even Rip Hamilton.
Just Joe
January 1st, 2012
1:27 pm
One issue with Orlando taking Bynum is that he has a team option for 2012, but that’s it. What if he demands a trade next year? Same with Brook Lopez. Restricted free agent next year coming off of an injury.
STRETCH
January 1st, 2012
1:50 pm
TeamTradeJoshSmith
Amen to that! Josh Smith has a basketball players mentality but not a championship basketball players attitude. He is going to continue his “Terrell Owens” like ways as long as a team will put up with it.
But like i said before management has now idea how to run an organization cause they think trading for Dwight Howard and keeping Josh will take them to the promised land. LOL!
Rusty
January 1st, 2012
1:54 pm
This team continues To play one on one basketball & ld let’s them play that way. He got in jt’s head again after jt’ good game . The team & ld doesn’t want jt to run this team, this team just prefers to play one one basketball. LD has to go ,he lacks head coach mentality & prefers to play head games.
Rusty
January 1st, 2012
2:07 pm
I just can’t understand how a man who comes from basketball can make such poor substitution decisions, no one on this blog could be this bad. Is he suffering from mental problems or a tremendous ego problem?
Sautee
January 1st, 2012
2:11 pm
Hey Rusty, got a source for that “ld got in Teague’s head” stuff?
No?
‘Cause I think you’re just makin’ ish up. LD is certainly not the best, but why accuse him when you really don’t KNOW what’s gone on between him and Teague?
Big Daddy
January 1st, 2012
2:23 pm
Lots of angry entries. I would just like to hear from LD or even Smoove as to why, with JT standing there with his arms outstretched to receive the ball, does he put the ball on the floor and dribble up the court. He sometimes brings it up and tries to run the play. Most any other coach that I am aware of would either bench or fine him everytime he does this.
I really like Smoove for what he can do. I expected he thought he would be playing the 3 this year instead of the 4 and that is what he worked on. However, it didn’t turn out that way and won’t be like that this year so he has to go back to what he did the year he did not take the 3’s.
Jeff is going to have to evolve into the point position. If he has to think he is going to get yanked everytime he makes a mistake his development is going to be stymied as would anybody’s. That means the coaches have to come up with plays for him to run and the others have to follow it. Now, I understand that LD has to worry about his job. But he has got to take a stand at some point and say this is who is the point and who I want running the team. Follow him or get fined or benched. Do you think Doc Rivers, Phil Jackson or any of the other top coaches would let this mess go on. No, they wouldn’t.
Finally, Joe, you are losing your fans. Everyone is afraid you are going to by Jon Koncak Pt II. Since you got the contract you are either trying too hard or not trying enough. You are letting people who make a 3rd of your salary show you up. Teams who come to the Highlight factory should be worried about you every night. Defenses should be setup to stop you. We have all seen nights where you looked unstoppable. The problem is they all seem to have come before you got the big contract. You got it because the people who run the franchise believed in you, as did the fans. Don’t keep letting us down.
ntrigue
January 1st, 2012
2:25 pm
The difference in this gm was that Drew definitely was in Teague ear after the gm vs the nets regarding scoring. He needs to let Teague play his gm and sometimes that involves scoring especially when are shots are not falling. Teague is our best penetrator have to let him do his thing leave him alone drew without Teague we would’ve lost to Nj!
Sautee
January 1st, 2012
2:39 pm
“The difference in this gm was that Drew definitely was in Teague ear after the gm vs the nets regarding scoring.”
Once again, while not defending the job LD is doing, how do you KNOW that “Drew definitely was in Teague ear”? Do you have a source, or is this conjecture on your part?
Sautee
January 1st, 2012
2:42 pm
Big Daddy,
Nice post. And about this:
“I would just like to hear from LD or even Smoove as to why, with JT standing there with his arms outstretched to receive the ball, does he put the ball on the floor and dribble up the court.”
Old habits die hard?
Yeah, I’d like to hear that answer as well.
Astro Joe
January 1st, 2012
2:43 pm
I think a head coach is supposed to get into a player’s head, especially if the player needs that in order to fulfill his potential. Is there anyone among us who wouldn’t want a head coach to get into Josh Smith’s head and exorcise those Chuck Person thoughts from his brain? To keep Marvin motivated and engaged? To convince Joe to play more aggressively and passionately? To encourage Horford to play with more assertiveness? And to ensure that Teague maintains his focus? A head coach does more than draw up plays and make substitutions… anyone ever know Phil Jackson to try and get into a player’s head? Would we want im on the Hawks sideline?
Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?
January 1st, 2012
2:44 pm
Basketball 101: When a player has the HOT HAND, you RIDE HIM
My HATE for Marvin? Dude’s a bust that we took over a Hall of Famer. What can I say?
When Marvin has the “hot hand” its because Joe Johnson is busting his butt drawing double teams and collapsing the defense.
When Joe gets tired then Marvin needed to go to work and he tried to beat Budinger off the dribble and actually fumbled the shot.
Why doesn’t Marvin demand the ball? why doesn’t Marvin tell Smith to get on baseline while he goes to work on Budinger on the perimeter.
Bottom line: Iso Joe can only do so much. Iso Josh is crap. He’s a tweener who you put next to a perimeter PF and tell to crash boards next to a stretch 4. Iso Josh is crappy FG%. Iso Al is too slow and gets no FTA at that.
Where’s Iso Marvin?
Bottom line?
Marvin Williams offensive skillset is stuck between positions and he shies away from the ball.
Rusty
January 1st, 2012
3:01 pm
Sautee this crap has been going on with jt & ld for years. Anyone but a blind man can see what’s happening. I can’t see jt staying here & having a good NBA career. Talk about being treated like crap
Big Ray
January 1st, 2012
3:05 pm
Some good points brought forth by MC.
Teague wasn’t able to get his teammates involved as much as we’d like. Larry Drew comments on this and says he hopes Teague can learn a lesson from what Lowry did.
But then, MC also notes that Lowry’s teammates played to their strengths, while the Hawks did not.
Ok….. what should this tell you?
I think it’s obvious. It’s not just Teague. It’s not just his teammates. There is one element that can influence Joe to post up a smaller/weaker Kevin Martin. Or get Josh to flash to the basket instead of creating dribble drives from the 3 point line, or taking long jumpers. Or find ways to keep Marvin in the game and involved in the offense.
It’s called coaching.
You can’t tell me the Rockets are better because all of their players are just smarter. Especially with a hard-headed hard charger like Lowry.
Houston is better COACHED….
Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?
January 1st, 2012
3:09 pm
Hill had 15rebs, I guess Josh can’t play PF EITHER….
ROUND OF APPLAUSE. IT ONLY TOOK 4 Playoff Exits and Jordan Hill to realize this.
========
Josh Smith playing the point. aka rebound and go aka the Magic Johnson strategy. If Smith gives up
the ball the time the ball is in the air his man gets to recover.
if you rebound and push the ball u might force mismatches. If you want Smith to rebound pass and run. Then you need him at the SF position. And you need a PF who can trail. Josh Smith taking Scola off the dribble is not what a trailer should do.
A trailer should shoot the shot.
The PF is the trailer.
WHY IS SMITH still the PF?
=======
RE: what is the fascination with Leuer?
Devil is in the details. Standing reach says Marvin should be a better shotblocker than Smith or Horford.
But he’s not.
Wingspan Length + intuition says Horford should be better rebounding than K-Love + ZBo. Alas.
You’re using the wrong measurements & the wrong perspective.
The average for height at PF is around 6′10. So if you’re shorter you need more length and strength to compensate.
Most big men can’t play the wing. Leuer can. He is a small forward. I guess you said you saw Bargnani with defense. Funny although he was chucking Bargnani averaged 20ppg last season.
Bottom Line on Leuer ::::::
Most forwards fall in a certain wingspan range to be effective scorers. 6′11, 7′0, or 7′2
ie Olajuwon, McGrady, both have a 7′2 wingspan and were phenomenally coordinated. Marvin with his 7′3.5 not so f*(#@ng much. Outliers who have crazy length like Durant, Elton Brand exist.
I will only list some guys with a 7′0 wingspan.
Carmelo (6′7.5″ 7′0 wingspan 230)
Leuer (7′0 tall 7′0 wingspan, 230)
Kaman (7′0 tall 7′0 wingspan, 250)
David Lee (6′9 tall 7′0 wingspan, 230)
Damien Wilkins
So if I said I had a 7′0 Damien Wilkins who has a 3 point shot or a Chris Kaman who lost weight and has wing skills. Can pick and pop for 3, pass dunk, post up, would you take it?
Yes his athleticism was highly ranked if I recal correctly Hollinger Insider said he was a sleeper.
7 footers are not supposed to move or play like that. Its a huge mismatch problem if we team him up with guys who love to go inside Joe Johnson, Josh, Dwight/Bogut and Teague.
A quicker taller Vlad Radamonovic with more defense, rebounding size and a post game? And a pull up jumper?
You would say wow, the league is full of dumbfncks who dont know how to scout. Screw Marvin I can milk this guy for 16-20ppg easy. Pick and pops, rebound and lead the break with Smith on the wing. Rebound and pass to Teague who draws and Leuer TRAILS set feet and shoot 3s in transition.
Standing reach is nothing. Leuer has the 7′0 wingspan that says coordination and scoring potential. 7′0 height is still 7′0 height. Ask Kevin Love and Anthony Randolph whom he posted up.
Marvin has the height and wingspan of Ike Diogu. Coordination and reliablity? Not so good.
The Marvin experiment must end.
I’d give up 2 (protected) picks to sneak away 7′0 SF Leuer.
Big Ray
January 1st, 2012
3:12 pm
My HATE for Marvin? Dude’s a bust that we took over a Hall of Famer.
Hating a player for what a GM did is plain illogical.
When Marvin has the “hot hand” its because Joe Johnson is busting his butt drawing double teams and collapsing the defense.
Isn’t that how its supposed to happen? By the way, that’s not true. Sometimes Marvin gets the ball off of a pass from somebody else, and he just hits the shot.
Why doesn’t Marvin demand the ball? why doesn’t Marvin tell Smith to get on baseline while he goes to work on Budinger on the perimeter.
Really? These are questions you should be asking of the coach, or even the pg….not the SF.
Bottom line: Iso Joe can only do so much. Iso Josh is crap. He’s a tweener who you put next to a perimeter PF and tell to crash boards next to a stretch 4. Iso Josh is crappy FG%. Iso Al is too slow and gets no FTA at that.
Answer – coaching.
Marvin Williams offensive skillset is stuck between positions and he shies away from the ball.
This theory in no way explains Marvin’s performances in games 1, 2, and 3.
Big Ray
January 1st, 2012
3:14 pm
Rusty ,
Not true. Teague can have a good career here. But I don’t think this team can get anywhere with Larry Drew as the HC.
They aren’t listening to him, or he’s telling them the wrong things. That, and he can’t seem to get a handle on his lineups/substitutions.
Personally, I’ve had enough of the experiment.
Big Ray
January 1st, 2012
3:19 pm
Early observations……Only reason Al isn’t shooting more jumpers is due to the fact that teams are not giving him that wide open set shot that they gave him last year. Check out how after he sets the picks the defense does not leave him wide open anymore……I’ve also noticed that he didn’t work on going left during the off season….still forcing his moves to the basket to the right.
Exactly. When teams start taking away a move or a shot you like to take….it means you’ve been pretty effective and teams have to respect you at that spot.
Conversely, what would it mean when you’re always open for certain shots? If only guys like Josh Smith could understand this. Nobody respects his jumper. In fact, they prefer he shoot it. And he still doesn’t get it. And his coach can’t seem to help him get it. At all.
He’s basically on the path of “never going to make the all-star team” with this ish.
At the same time, good point about Al not working on attacking from both sides. Better defenders and better defensive teams are not just going to take away his pick-and-pop shot. They’re going to take away the side he likes to drive from, and the spots he likes to post up on. He needs to be able to score over either shoulder.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?
January 1st, 2012
3:21 pm
Marvin Williams offensive skillset is stuck between positions and he shies away from the ball.
Big Ray, this is embarassing but rank these guys defense.
Damien James
Rashard Lewis
Chase Budinger
Washington and New Jersey explain Marvin’s performances.
You can’t coach Josh Smith into hitting Jumpers or Marvin creating. Or Marvin protecting the rim long enough for Smith to recover and block a shot.
The answer is running down Joe Johnson on offense to draw doubles and get Marvin WIDE open.
And some nights that is not going to happen.
Marvin Williams shies away from the ball. The only distinct iso I remember him doing is the one where he drove on Budinger and fumbled the ball and shot a fumbling jumper.
What’s to stop him from doing it again? His own confidence. Its a free offense. If Marvin feels he can create offense then do it.
“When Marvin has the “hot hand” its because Joe Johnson is busting his butt drawing double teams and collapsing the defense.
Isn’t that how its supposed to happen?”
No you’re not supposed to make your 30 year old SG the first option unless his name is Kobe. Joe Johnson should be doing what K-Mart is doing at this stage. Someone collapses for him and he guns threes in halfcourt and transition.
But it all starts with defense. And we’re undersized.
Ray
January 1st, 2012
3:23 pm
After these first four games I’m not worried about the players yet I’m more concerned about Uncle LD cause he’s got his own set of issues some that have carried over from last year.
As for Teague not being a Pure PG the only legit PG’s I know of right now are Parker, Rondo, and Rubio probably add a few more, but what I’m saying is D.Rose is an attacker same for Westbrook.
I’ll take Teague over what we’ve had these last couple of years which included the likes of Mike Bibby who was over the hill after two seasons, Acie Law, and Speedy if I’m not mistaken.
Ray
January 1st, 2012
3:30 pm
As for Josh Smith my eye is especailly on him this season alone I have been one to defend him, but these 4 games he just doesn’t have it yeah dunks are nice, but what else.
Cause so far it seems he was porking Mrs. Kardashian instead of working on his skill set.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?
January 1st, 2012
3:32 pm
How can you say you’re not worried about the players?
Josh Smith – Marvin Williams – Al Horford
Least cohesive frontcourt in the playoffs bar none. How did we draft 3 tweeners and keep them until their peak?
Rusty
January 1st, 2012
3:37 pm
The worst decision this team has made was naming ld as head coach, the next was giving jj all that loot
Ray
January 1st, 2012
3:38 pm
Yet you want someone who gets injuried a good bit in Bogut sure why not set us back for another 50 years.
The reason I’m not worried yet is it’s only 4 games, but I’m already worried about the HC in charge because he calls the shots and so far last night was a blunder on his part, and some of the players like a J-smoove.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?
January 1st, 2012
3:47 pm
@ Ray how many times does Al Horford stay in the paint and dunk off of JJ’s passes in the paint.
Horford is not even a traditional center. It all starts with defense buddy.
Smith is a 1B defender, a helper. He is not an anchor and is not a 7 footer who can drop step and dunk with ease.
J from the A
January 1st, 2012
3:53 pm
One loss and the sky is falling?
The Hawks are a very good team. One loss does not change that.
Yes, the Hawks have a young PG that is good but does not quite have the necessary leadership and vision to be a great PG; yes, the Hawks have a very good but not elite player being paid like he is elite; yes, there is that #2 draft pick that will always be considered a bust (even though he is actually playing well right now); yes, there is the somewhat erratic play of one of the league’s better and more athletic players; yes there is the perception that the Hawks’ all-NBA player is a bit soft; yes, the Hawks’ bench is a ragtag group of not-so-great veterans; yes, the Hawks’ head coach is far from being one of the better HCs in the league; yes, …
We could go on and on and on, but the fact remains THIS IS A VERY GOOD HAWKS TEAM. And ONE LOSS DOES NOT CHANGE THAT.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?
January 1st, 2012
4:00 pm
One loss and the sky is falling?
The Hawks are a very good team. One loss does not change that.
===
That’s the glass ceiling falling. The Hawks are a bunch of talented tweeners. 1 game at a time but championship is not likely. And Smith is playing himself out of trade value. He is an absolute tweener who needs others to create shots shoot shots so he can shoot the rock.
Now I know why Jamal Crawford and Radmanovic were brought in.
Get Anderson, Dwight or Leuer, Bogut. Sell the house picks wise for this sh**. If Horford’s trade value is gone then Hawks are screwed.
That glass ceiling becomes cement.
Prison Mike
January 1st, 2012
4:00 pm
The starting back court went to the line zero times in 65 minutes. Marvin shooting tech fouls exposes Joes somewhat skewed FTAs.
Josh played bad overall but leads the team in FTAs along with Marv, he just has to make em…. Marv again is taking most of the teams technical foul free throws so his true average is not presented.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?
January 1st, 2012
4:09 pm
athleticism = the most overused word in basketball.
Smith’s not the only athletic player in the NBA. Smith plays PF and is 6′8. Smith can’t shoot. Smith is the trailer on offense.
Marvin Williams can’t post up, can’t create offense. Joe Johnson gets tired. Teague wants to drive everything.
Who are these people who should be coming to the ball and creating while Smith crashes the glass.
Grandmaster JeJe
January 1st, 2012
4:09 pm
FIRE LD
CANT EVEN PREPARE US FOR TEAM ON 3rd of B2b2b
Smith.Leuer.Bogut aka Other Options?
January 1st, 2012
4:12 pm
Marvin is not skewed to us. His FTA are not from isolation plays. He’s a jumpshooting role player.