Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 105, Nets 98

  • The Hawks didn’t play very well. The Nets made a lot of shots. Jeff Teague kept the Hawks above water and then they made more good plays than bad to get the W and improve to 3-0.
  • That about sums it up. “It was hard, but a win is a win,” Zaza Pachulia said. “It fees good. We expected them to come out and be aggressive but obviously we didn’t have as much energy as last game.”
  • The Hawks struggled to beat the Nets after waylaying them in New Jersey.
  • “One of the toughest things to do, and I’ve been associated it for a while as a coach and a player, when you have a game like you had against them the first time you have a tendency to let your guard down,” Larry Drew said. “That’s kind of a human characteristic. I talked to the guys and told them the team we saw in New Jersey was going to be a totally different team tonight. We didn’t respond as well as I was hoping but I give my guys credit, too, because they hung in there and kept fighting.”
  • Teague (22 points, 9/11 FG, six assists, two steals, two turnovers) provided most of Atlanta’s zip. He’s still not looking to pass on those drives but as long as he finishes like he did tonight it’s not a problem.
  • “I think when I’m playing aggressive, I’m at my best,” Teague said. “Sometimes I miss guys on a couple passes and they talk to me but I think that’s just the way I have to play. When I am sitting out there being casual I think that’s when I’m not ay my best and I think that hurts the team. ‘Quick’ [Nick Van Exel] always tells me in my ear to be aggressive, so that’s what I do.”
  • Teague also handled Deron Williams about as well as can be expected when Williams has it going like that.
  • Teague’s drives to the basket and Zaza’s pick-and-pop Js and free throws were the only reliable offensive options for long stretches. Zaza (11 points on six shots, eight rebounds in 23 minutes) probably has been the most consistent bench player so far for the Hawks.
  • The Hawks earned 38 free-throw attempts. They only made 27 but 14 of those were in the fourth quarter. Kudos to Joe Johnson for earning four attempts in the final period (not including the technical free throw and two after New Jersey fouled intentionally). His shot wasn’t falling so he started going to the basket, including that nifty move around MarShon Brooks for the basket that essentially sealed it.
  • Speaking of Brooks, he looks really smooth for a brand new rookie. Johnson was all over him when he turned a broken play into a turnaround J late in the game. “He looks like he’s been in the league for quite some time,” Josh Smith said. “I guess that’s the Atlanta in him. That’s how we do. He knew he was at home and he definitely wanted to give his folks a good showing and he did it.”
  • Josh didn’t get a call (he wasn’t fouled) while trying to take on three Nets defenders early in the game and then seemed to go in a funk. He later earned a technical foul for shoving Kris Humphries out of bounds on a loose ball.
  • Still, Josh again combined with Al Horford to make it tough for New Jersey to score at the basket. The Hawks have the potential to be a significantly improved defense with those two now playing behind guards that are solid defensively as a group (and that’s before Kirk Hinrich, a good defender at the 2, returns).
  • The Nets were hastily assembled before their opener. They looked much more cohesiveness this time. Al said they had a better plan: “We guarded them very well [in the first meeting]. They’ve seen so much stuff we have shown as far as doubling Deron. Tonight they stayed away from that and spaced the floor a little more, which made it harder for us to do what we wanted.”
  • Brooks, Anthony Morrow, Sundiata Gaines and even Shelden Williams were making shots. “They shot the mess out of the ball, bottom line,” Josh said.
  • New Jersey scored just 10 of its 35 third-quarter points in the paint but the Hawks were scrambling and slow to react to shooters. “We did not make a defensive stand whatsoever in the third quarter,” Drew said. “I thought we were back to old habits, looking for officials for help and not taking the onus on ourselves to be a gutty team, a blue-collar team.”
  • T-Mac (6 points, two rebounds in 23 minutes) wasn’t as active offensively but he was part of the bench group that held the lead in the first half. Vladmir Radmanovic had a few weird plays that got me to thinking about how Phil Jackson used to say he’s a bit flaky.
  • Jannero Pargo still can’t find his shot and had a quicker trigger tonight, though he was in good position most times on D. Willie Green also was quick to shoot at times.
  • Marvin Williams was solid but it seemed he was getting subbed game each time it looked like he was heating up. Drew sat Williams for most of the fourth quarter before sending him in with 2:52 to go. Williams helped force Deron Williams to miss on a reverse layup and collected the rebound, then pressured Brooks before the rookie called the timeout the Nets didn’t have.
  • The Hawks got out of town with the W and now face tough tests at Houston, Miami and Chicago. “I think it’s a good measuring stick for us,” Josh said. “Even though the schedule is not the way want it to be, playing those teams back-to-back and then come home and play Miami. I think it’s good for this team to see how we play when we hit adversity.”

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

193 comments Add your comment

HawkZ

December 30th, 2011
11:26 pm

Ray

December 30th, 2011
11:29 pm

I thought the hawks needed a game like this so they didn’t get the big head.

Edward Nigma

December 30th, 2011
11:30 pm

Gotta guard those treys and knock down those FTs. Teague is a beast.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

HawkZ

December 30th, 2011
11:34 pm

Does anyone else think that teague couldve scored 30+ if he kept being aggressive and looked to score more often?

northcyde

December 30th, 2011
11:36 pm

doc

December 30th, 2011
10:54 pm

lol at northcyde re. jc2 stats. yup and flip wont be there long with loose cannons either. irrelevant to anything but fantasy league as they lost by 21. jc2 had a solid -20 to lead the downside along with r lewis also at -20.

********************

Well . . he is on my fantasy team ( the lone bright spot tonight ) . . and that loss wasn’t his fault. Flip started Nick Young, who was 0 – 8 in that game at one point. He and Wall stunk up the joint, going a combined 2 – 19 FG.

Slimjr

December 30th, 2011
11:36 pm

Atlanta Falcons
“Matt Ryan is becoming an ‘elite’ QB, Smith says”

So is Cam Newton Coach Norv Turner!

GO Hawks..

C’mon Gearon!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slimjr

December 30th, 2011
11:40 pm

This Clipper Bulls game is like Boxing match! Leads keep changing.. Teams are running every chance they get!

JSS

December 30th, 2011
11:42 pm

Lord save us from an open blog!!! Shelden Williams makings shots is an oxymoronic statement!

Slimjr

December 30th, 2011
11:43 pm

Chicago looks really good on offense..Hawks will have a real tough time beating this team wo D12…

I could see the Hawks getting swept by the Bulls..No joke!

Bull are going to run run run……Track Meet! Hawks are the 2nd oldest team in the league now…..

Josh Kinsey

December 30th, 2011
11:45 pm

Willie Green has ALWAYS had a quick trigger. Hopefully he gets cut once Captain Kirk returns. Go Hawks!

Slimjr

December 30th, 2011
11:46 pm

MVP’s got 10 assist at the freaking half! Wow….

Swingman912

December 30th, 2011
11:47 pm

Teague could easily be our leading scorer every night. His penetration creates foe others…imagine if he would’ve started last year…Smoove can impact the game in so many ways, but it kills me to see him without ANY effective post moves…he could be the the player we expected him to be….but a win is a win…GO Teague!!!!!!! CHUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCHHHH

JSS

December 30th, 2011
11:55 pm

Interesting Stat

December 30th, 2011
11:58 pm

From Elias: One night after winning their opener, 106-70 at New Jersey, the Hawks improved to 2-0 with a 101-83 home win over the Wizards. Atlanta is the third team in the last 20 years to outscore its first two opponents by a combined 50-or-more points, joining the 2002-03 Kings and the 2008-09 Lakers. Sacramento would finish the regular season 59-23 and lose to Dallas in the second round of the playoffs. Los Angeles went 65-17 and went on to win the NBA Championship.

Interesting Stat

December 31st, 2011
12:02 am

More than likely sloan will get cut when Kirk comes back. Pargo can score he probably just not comfortable yet. We need another Big so I cant see ivan getting cut.

KevinM

December 31st, 2011
12:07 am

3-0 is 3-0……a great set of teams to start with.

We sure need a defensive shot blocker in the paint…..Deron Williams was using drive thru the entire 2nd half.

The true identity of this team will be seen this week.

Joe is our closer and he needs to produce there during the playoffs.

Mike is Back

December 31st, 2011
12:09 am

MC, great stuff….LD has been spot on with observation of the games…however, I agree I thought Marvin could have been used more this game.

I was a good win…with some telling signs. This times…the Hawks lets the Nets have a lot of uncontested shots…I would have like to see them come with a double team to get the ball out of DWil hands…once he started to get it going…Teague did a heck of job…but you gotta make someone else beat you.

Pretty sure I got a chance to see Brooks play in High School…Tucker was our arch rival…Dude is a gamer…that shot against JJ was Prime Time material.

Tmack is definitely going to help this team…he is a great facilitator…Once he get guys to understand…it’s the fundamental play…not the spectacular that wins games…this team can take it to another level.

BTW, WTF has got into Pargo…if he wants to practice his jump shot…dude should come out early before the game.

Mike is Back

December 31st, 2011
12:18 am

O MAN…WHAT A PASS BY CP3…Blake is a MONSTOR. However, once DeAndre Jordon gets in foul trouble…the Clippers are a different team…I think the Bulls deft will catch up with the Clips.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
12:18 am

Stat line of the night:

Deron Williams 33+ minutes played, 9-18 on FGs, 23 points, 6 assists, 2 steals, 2 turnovers.

Jeff Teague 33+ minutes played, 9-12 on FGs, 22 points, 6 assists, 2 steals, 2 turnovers.

‘Nuff said.

Ken Strickland

December 31st, 2011
12:19 am

It’s a doggone shame that Teague is playing the way he is only because of 2 injuries to KHinrich. If not for Hinrich getting hurt during the playoffs, Drew would have continued ignoring him. If not for Hinrich getting hurt before the start of this season, Drew would have most likely continued to ignore him. At this stage of his career, even Hinrich couldn’t give us the level of consistent production we’re now getting from Teague.

Teague probably drove to the basket and finished more times in this gm alone than Bibby did during any season in Atlanta. Instead of giving him an honest chance to see what he could do, it looked like both Woodson and Drew were more afraid of actually finding our what he could do. Otherwise, they would have needed to provide additional excuses for insisting on starting Bibby, and playing him major mins.

Isn’t it amazing how Teague is able to run the team, consistently drive the lane, and still have a very low turnover rate? If all he did was crossed half court, gave the ball to JJ and floated around the 3pt line and launched 3s, he’d probably go an entire season with fewer than 10 turnovers. His ability to penetrate, and create his own shot, means we don’t have to depend on the pick and rolls as much as we have in the past.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
12:20 am

I guess LD has gone from not realizing that he should have Teague in the game more, to not realizing he should have Marvin in the game more….now that Marvin is truly performing well.

It’s a shame.

A worse shame is letting Minnesota get Rick Adelman. Watch those guys rise over the years, provided the front office makes decent moves via the draft and free agency as time goes on.

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
12:21 am

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE LET DASKG KNOW THE ARENA SUCKS AND SOMEWHERE THEY SHOULD POST NBA SCORES AND GAME/PLAYER STATS?

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
12:23 am

I don’t get the noise about Horford and a trade. That was reported as something that was tried in the somewhat recent past. I doubt Horford is playing like he is worried about a trade….he was pretty aggressive tonight, even if it didn’t result in the type of statistics that we like to see (except for defense – dude had 3 blocks).

People like to goof on Zaza….who keeps coming through when our starting front line struggles on the boards for whatever reason. Second time in 3 games that he has led us in rebounding. Say what you want…

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
12:31 am

Zaza and TMac have a nice 1-2 punch off bench

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
12:38 am

Let’s just settle this one right now – any trade involving the Hawks and Dwight Howard means both Joe and Al go to Orlando, and we get Howard.

However, it’s not that simple. We’ll likely get a veteran player with a contract we won’t like. That’s not all.

Howard doesn’t have to re-sign after we’ve rented his services for an already shortened season, and every expert who chooses to opine on the subject thinks that Josh Smith is the lynchpin to keeping Howard around via a signed contract extension. Josh, his BFF, his buddy, his pal, his….

WRONG .

One thing, and one thing only is the key to trading for, and then keeping Dwight Howard. That is the ability of Gearon, Levenson, and the rest of their little gang – to convince Howard that playing in Atlanta will be better than playing in Dallas or Brooklyn. It all hinges on their ability to show themselves to be stable owners for an organization that will work harder and smarter to provide Howard a place where he can not only play close to home….but that he can win a championship. They have to convince him (and his agent) that he would be looking at a brighter future than he ever did at Orlando, where everything crumbled (and quickly).

In short, the group formerly known as the ASG – has to show Dwight something they’ve never showed us…

THAT is what this hinges on. Beyond that, the numbers and names are simple. We have the best package that Otis Smith and Orlando could possibly hope for in Joe and Al.

Dallas? They might be able to come close, but the problem is that they don’t have high draft picks (which Orlando does not want) and they don’t have the same caliber of veteran players (that Orlando DOES want). Brooklyn? We’ve already seen what the Nets have. Youngsters with issues? Yeah, they have that. Vets with “win now and make playoffs at least” capability? Nah.

Orlando’s best trade on paper is with Atlanta, even though we’re a division rival.

But if the Gearon Group can’t convince Dwight that he should come here AND stay…then our candle will get burned on both ends, and that will be the end of the franchise for another long spell.

“We’ll go over the luxury tax for the right guy”, they say.

Yeah, well if you get Dwight, you’ll have to go over the luxury tax to surround him with the right guys.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
12:39 am

“showed” should have been “shown”…

Melvin

December 31st, 2011
12:49 am

One thing I saw that I like about this game. It seem as if each one of the bench players had a stretch in the game where they played well. Can’t remember that happening with last year bench. Better yet, we didn’t play a 10 man rotation last year either.

Mike is Back

December 31st, 2011
12:55 am

Big Ray, what’s up man…agree with ya on Marvin…and Yeah, I thought Al had a good game…he had some timely plays when the game was hanging in the balance…Once the D12 rumors started flowing…U knew there would be pent up hate for Al.lol

Man, the Clips are average at best once they have to go to their bench…I had to check the roster to see if my guy Travis Lester was still on the team…I wouldn’t pass the torch over to the Clippers in LA just yet…not enough Vets on the bench.

The Hawks are on TNT for the Heat games…if we can get a win in Houston…it could be a matchup of two undefeated teams…imagine that Hawks fans.

Blake is a MAN among MENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KEEP GOING HAWKS…LET’S GO…LET’S GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Section 303

December 31st, 2011
12:56 am

Teague was great tonight.

T-Mac and Zaza seem to work well together. They combined on back-to-back give and goes. T-Mac can still play.

I never felt like the Hawks were going to lose this game. They shot poorly, especially Joe. Although, he hit free throws, like Michael said. He also hit a sweet 3 as the shot clock was running down in the 4th quarter.

Josh Smith does not like Humphries. He got the T for shoving him, but Josh nailed Humphries several times throughout the first half. Is there a past history between those two? Josh was trying to inflict pain on Humphries.

Humphries took advantage of the Hawks inability to boxout. They simply refuse to do this. Humphries had three put back dunks, simply because Al and Josh did not put a body on him.

Love our second unit. Pargo, Green, Zaza, T-Mac, and Vlad. Good group. They played well tonight.

Section 303

December 31st, 2011
12:59 am

By the way, if you get a chance, watch Ricky Rubio play. He is a top 5 PG right now. I have never seen a PG survey the floor like he does. Rubio is a blast to watch play.

I DVR’ed the T-Wolves/Heat game. Just finished it. T-Wolves got screwed. Wade and James get every call. Literally. They get every f’ing call. The worst one was late in the 4th. James lowers his shoulder and just steam rolled Rondulph. Blocking foul. It is unreal.

Mike is Back

December 31st, 2011
1:04 am

Big Ray, every time I see DeAndre Jordon…I keep thinking about Benson in a couple of years…still think we should have kept that kid.

Better yet, we need to resign that kid.

Najeh Davenpoop

December 31st, 2011
1:05 am

Somehow, a team run by Chris Paul with shooters and athletes all over the roster finishes an awful lot of possessions with Blake Griffin taking a long contested jumper.

I know the Bulls’ defense is good, but either the Clippers need time to get used to playing together or they are not being coached well.

Melvin

December 31st, 2011
1:06 am

Watching the Clippers/Bulls game. CP3 is no match for D.Rose. I think Teague play DRose better than CP3. Clippers has depth issues and no SG. They are exciting to watch but there not elite yet. Bulls are very good but we already knew that.

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
1:09 am

Joe shot poorly in the 1st half

In the 2nd half, he scored 16 points on 4 – 6 FG and 7 – 7 FT.

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
1:13 am

And no one defender is slowing down Derrick Rose. That dude is too quick for everybody. It’ll be interesting to see the Hawks new swarming defense against Rose.

Hawk n the Ham

December 31st, 2011
1:16 am

I wonder if Josh living next to Kim Kar …. this summer in LA had anything to do with the way he was trying to get shots in on Humphries tonight.

Ken Strickland

December 31st, 2011
1:22 am

What is it about these so call knowledgeable basketball fans and reporters that leads them to believe the Celtics and Knicks will be better than the Hawks? The Celtics have no depth, size, athleticism, or stamina(youth). The Knicks have no PG to run their particular type of OFF, and both Amare and Camelo are more one on one ball stoppers who aren’t at their best when playing in the passing OFF DeAntonio wants to run. And I don’t care what anyone thinks of TChandler’s DEF ability, he can’t overcome the DEF liabilities of the majority of the Knicks players, especially Camelo, Amare and Bibby.

Unless they’re really hot and hitting their outside shots, we’ll dominate both teams.

Jay

December 31st, 2011
1:38 am

I’d never thought I’d say this, but here goes…we need to play Marvin Williams more minutes. He was the only starter to finish with a positive +/- and had the second most rebounds on the team tonight. Cunningham is right, Marvin is getting pulled when he does well. I know we want to play T-Mac, but it shouldnt so much as the expense of Marvin’s playing time. He shouldn’t always be the starter to play the least amount of minutes. So far this season,he is LEADING the team in rebounds, points, and his PER is WAY higher than any of his teammates.

Larry Drew, play Marvin more!

Big Daddy

December 31st, 2011
1:39 am

The team did what it had to in order to win. Mad props for Jeff. He is getting more comfortable in his role and the bench is beginning to gel. It will be interestng what LD and Sund choose to do when Kirk gets healthy. I like the way we are headed. GO HAWKS!!!

superiorblogman

December 31st, 2011
1:44 am

Quit complaining about Teague not passing more often when he goes to the rack. His numbers at the end of the year will probably look like Bibby at his best in ATL and he comes much cheaper and is more respected defensively. The worse thing that could happen to this cheap arse organization is that Teague averages 15 pts and 8 or more assists. He would be priced out of our range when he comes up RFA a couple years from now. Be happy with what you have because we all know you don’t want to pay anyone.

drmaryb.[*_*].

December 31st, 2011
1:46 am

She & He!

Candace Parker, She & He, Anthony Parker are even better than Shellhead, (the foreclosure). Ha Ha … too sad for the big man, he’s just moving from team to team and most times twice every year at the trade deadlines.

Good guy though. Great win tonight, we’ll take it. Never apologize for winning. I take back every doubtful word I ever said in defense of Woodson and Drew not playing this kid. My sincere apologies to Mr. Teague – he goode.

Jeff Teague is fine … He’s alright … He’s like Good Times and Kid DYNO-MITE! (in JJ Evans voice)

Rufus1

December 31st, 2011
1:52 am

Last Year we Lose that Game….

And DWill goes for 35pts and 12ast.

That lack of great PG play on the OFFENSIVE and DEFENSIVE ends of the floor, has limited this teams growth. We now have a DIFFERENCE MAKER at the PG, so now we can BLOSSOM.

Rufus1

December 31st, 2011
1:59 am

Lets PRAY for GREEN and PARGO shot…

All we need is a LITTLE consistency and our bench will be SUPER!

drmaryb.[*_*].

December 31st, 2011
2:01 am

Real Talk!

Rufus1! You sound like my man Ken Strickland up there. Great comments re: the PG difference. Good stuff.

Interesting Stat

December 31st, 2011
2:46 am

I’m just happy we finally have adequate defenders at every position for backups and starters….and they can score a lil as well.

Spyro

December 31st, 2011
4:51 am

So far, I feel like coaching is really going to hold this team back. Our depth is great, but our second unit needs to be mixed up sometimes. Pargo and Green should not be on the floor at the same time for an extended period of time; they both rely too much on jump shots. TMac can still drive, but I don’t want an aging and injury prone McGrady to be the only player on the floor who can create his own shot. Having Teague or JJ on the floor with 4 other guys from the 2nd unit should create a lot of drive-and-kick opportunities for the shooters, with Zaza cleaning up any misses. At worst, we wouldn’t have any more 24-second, wasted possessions because no one on the 2nd unit can get open look.

In this game, Marvin played 25 minutes and TMac played 23. For a game this close, Marvin should’ve had starters minutes. (30+) I think TMac can still ball, but Marvin has been playing with a fire that necessitates more playing time. If Drew keep pulling him at the most inopportune times, it is just going to mess with Marvin’s confidence, which would really be a shame since it looks like he might be becoming a solid player again.

Horford looked good when he wasn’t in foul trouble, and Josh looked good when he wasn’t pissed off or shooting bad Js. (He made some really good passes that people tend to forget about) Teague was fantastic and Joe really picked it up in the 2nd half. If this team plays smart and coaches smart, then I believe that they have a real shot of doing something.

ICECOLD

December 31st, 2011
6:13 am

well… 3 and 0…. 63 more games to go.. how many undefeated teams are their? only 5… and even though a couple of teams had harder games on paper… The Hawks are winning how they suppose to win.. 2 blow outs against sorry teams, and then a close game where I think they lost focus and just had to regain it. because they beat this team by 36

Our winning Margin is at +20 . . Thats impressive no matter who you play.. Because both teams the Hawks played has a great point guard, and a decent center.. and we beat them and our point guard is a 1st year starter…

Last year, we lost to both of these teams.. So at least this year, we can say that we are a better team.

I hate when people say, they haven’t played nobody yet, but these are still NBA teams, even though both of these teams suck, at least we blew them out.. Its not like the first two games was even a contest .. they blew them out .. Like good teams should…

Other teams that suppose to be better then us
Knicks- blown out by Golden state ( but i bet they still contenders )
Boston – (1-3 , lost to the Hornets )
Chicago ( lost to Golden state )
Miami ( barely beat Timber-wolves and Bobcats )

Im not sayin the Hawks are better then these teams.. Im saying that at least they are on the same level of these teams and I know that they are better then Boston..

So let the Hawks keep rolling.. we will see how good they are when they play these other teams, but I am happy of the results, the Hawks didnt pick their schedule.. Didnt nobody ask to play sorry teams first. but hey, we undefeated so far.. just keep winning and the rest will take care of it self..

PEDRO EL GITANO

December 31st, 2011
7:01 am

Somos la mejor defensa y el cuarto mejor ataque de la liga.Contra los Nets ganamos por oficio,Joe fue el ejecutor y salio bien,pero me molesta que sea el quien juegue las posesiones mas importantes,los balones calientes deberian ir para un jugador que saque ventajas,y ese hombre es Jeff Teague.Este chico dio la impresion durante un tramo del partido que hacia lo que queria.Cuando aprenda a manejar la mano izquierda sera terrible para los bases rivales.
En otro orden de cosas,y hablando con el respeto que merece(se que es buen tirador)yo cortaria a Jannero Pargo.

Just Joe

December 31st, 2011
7:37 am

I’m not worried about Marvin’s minutes. Dude had back surgery this year. He can rest as much as the coach wants as long as we win. TMac needs time on the floor to learn the scheme (do we have one?), and Marvin does not need to get hurt. Marvin, Al & Josh are all averaging 25-28 minutes a game. I think if Kirk were healthy, Joe & Jeff would be too. They are just over 30 per game.

I hate Pargo’s turnovers. Its not like they are happening at the rim. They’re happening as he’s bringing the ball up the court, or trying to set up the play. I don’t care if the guy can’t shoot. Just don’t turn over the ball in that position where it makes for an easy transition opportunity for the other team, and our guys that just got down the court have to try to run back down to the other end to defend.

Willie Green is playing his role (shooter off the bench). He’s just not good enough. I think this is the one role we’ll still need to upgrade even when Kirk gets back. Any more 40% 3-pt shooters available?

Just Joe

December 31st, 2011
7:53 am

Green is averaging the least minutes off the bench (16) other than Stack & Ivan, but he’s 2nd in shot attempts per game (6.0 to TMac’s 6.7 in 20 minutes per). Willie is 28% for the year (25% from 3), vs his last 3 years, he’s been 44% (33% from 3).

Is Green on a guaranteed contract?

I don’t know who’s left out there: Chris Douglas-Roberts, Kelenna Azubuike, JR Smith, ……

lewis

December 31st, 2011
8:04 am

many of us were screaming for teague years ago

drew / woodson were idiots

Neki

December 31st, 2011
8:29 am

Well you can blame them, because they were more comfortable with a vet PG but Teague was waiting for a chance to do big things

terrell

December 31st, 2011
8:51 am

Told yall about Teague a long time ago. lol. Half of you cats wanted Eric Maynor, Ty Lawson, etc…lol. Teague gonna be better than all them dudes. And Woody and LD had the nerve to start Bibby/Kirk/etc….. over Jeff. Wtf????? THATS INSANE! ROOKIE OR NO ROOKIE! Dumbazzez!

terrell

December 31st, 2011
8:56 am

And what’s LD and Woody’s fascination with pulling Marvin when he’s actually playing well?

Slimjr

December 31st, 2011
8:58 am

Man, Chicago looks like the team to beat. They look better than last year thus far! Wow. Impressive defense, rebounding, shot makers! Deep bench…..et al…

Slimjr

December 31st, 2011
9:00 am

Teague’s defense is 3x> than CP3!

Teague= The Blur

richbrave

December 31st, 2011
9:19 am

Win #3 HAWKSTERS. Nothing to complain about.

Ray

December 31st, 2011
9:40 am

I’m not going to call Teague the blur yet, but for people saying Teague was Average or just Above average I’m sorry as I can see right now his ceiling is as high as a CP3 in fact probably as high as Derrick Rose.

People bashing on Willie Green at least he was actually driving PARGO! just sat out there like a duck(lol use to be Marvin) trying to jack up 3’s

As of now it’s between Pargo and Green who gets cut think the advantage is Green he’s a backup SG. If pargo would just try to drive to the hoop I’d feel better every time he’d try those long range jumpers my stomach would hurt.

doc

December 31st, 2011
9:42 am

you know, i like good defense and i liked the hawks of a few years ago before they got complacent on both ends of the court doing the protect switch defense and the stagnated give it to jj and watch offense. it was so hard for them to break. i think also a reasonable facsimile of bench “players” rather than retreads and minimal salary rooks they werent interested in getting better is providing a boost during games and probably in practice as well.

when guys are playing hard defense and an active offense of passing and moving, i can tolerate not scoring as a fan if they go cold and begin to rationalize that on some days you dont have it. however, what i like about defense is you can always have it, it keeps you close and it wears down the other guys so at the end you can sneak up on them. folding in the second quarter like they did last year isnt that formula and it then becomes a stat game on how to pad the numbers late in the game or one dimensional play outside the team concept ala the wiz are doing now.

for all the criticism of the heat and the their three buds, i do like their defense and it is what makes them go as well as boston and now the bulls. rarely an offensive minded team wins it all and maybe that is what happened last year with the mavs or chandler was the final piece or defensive glue that pushed them over the top for that team, now gone, replaced by a more offensive minded player in odum.

looking forward to seeing what the hawks have to show against two bell weather teams over the next two weeks. will be there on the fifth but have to be out of town for the 7th and am bummed. i hope to at least get one win thinking two would mean maybe we have more than a pretender working to not get my hopes up too high.

303 yes it is rigged as we saw it over and over again when the queen was playing us. that is where i want to say it is close to wwf.

Wabe

December 31st, 2011
10:07 am

co-sign about teague terrell

darrell starks

December 31st, 2011
10:13 am

Great win by the Hawks.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

December 31st, 2011
10:18 am

When Hinrich return Pargo must sit his butt down, this guy just jack three up like playing in NBA allstar shoot out contest, Hinrich take over at point behind Teague when he return.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

December 31st, 2011
10:20 am

Teague is playing like he the best PG in the league right now.
GO TEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
10:20 am

Pargo 5 assists

Teague 9-12

And Teague is playing better now than Bibby ever did for us. Bibby was never able to make it look easy around the hoop

hittman jamillion

December 31st, 2011
10:21 am

Slimjr, i don’t think chicagos the team to beat. Theyve already been defeated. I think in about two weeks we will know what’s what. I personally think we will beat chicago ,the thing is we play them on a back to back after the heat on the road.
Yeah doc i hate that wwf ish too. Most fans dont see it like that. Are DWade,Lebron,& D Rose nice hell yeah, but they all get away with too many calls. I remember when Tmac looked at the refs when he didn’t get the call five years ago he would a got that call,but now he’s not a top draw.He’s not filling the arenas anymore same as Vince Carter.
One another note Famlay,on the topic of any trade involving D12,you can’t include JJ or JT. If so our perimeter defense a surfer.Defense doesn’t show up in the stat box,but jj is a damn good defender.This is the reason why the clips arent good now.

Rufus1

December 31st, 2011
10:25 am

We are better…

We are BETTER than the team that went 6 games against the BULLS.

Don’t under estimate…

Don’t under estimate the EFFECT of being on a PLAYOFF team for these VETS…They are going to play hard.

steven A.

December 31st, 2011
10:25 am

New year Resolution; No business deals with Dominique Wilkins!!!!
Teague–most improved player. Great game.

steven A.

December 31st, 2011
10:26 am

Enter your comments here

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
10:31 am

Doc ,

Very well said. Very well said indeed.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
10:39 am

You want Dwight, you gotta let Joe go. Like it or not, it’s that simple.

Joe does play great perimeter defense most of the time (only time he doesn’t is when he doesn’t feel like it). And that, coupled with is scoring and playmaking ability, would/will be missed if such a trade goes down.

But if you’re paying $124 million for a guy and you bring in another guy who will command a max contract, one of those guys goes. This is the ATL, not LA or NY.

Now ask yourself – do you want to pay max for Joe, or pay max for Dwight?

Reality might suck, but that doesn’t make it go away.

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
10:40 am

Johnson and Smith continue to be DREADFUL from the 16 – 23 foot range

Josh was actually a decent 2 – 4 last night, raising his percentage to 33.3% from that range on 4 – 12 shooting

Johnson is still ice cold, going 0 – 3 and lowering his percentage to a woeful 2 – 12 ( 16.7% ). And the two shots he did make from that range came via assists. Normally, only like 30% – 35% of his made shots from this area come via assists.

Johnson has it going from 3 point range though, shooting 46.7%

$5 says that none of you can name the top 3 players on the Hawks in PER . . without looking it up.

doc

December 31st, 2011
10:49 am

not sure i see the value of the per yet northcyde and maybe the list will suggest how meaningless it is.

have no clue but if pargo in there, it will cause many heart attacks from shock. ;-)

can i be sure it is not twin?

doc

December 31st, 2011
10:51 am

right now jj is smothering the opposing guards. his weight loss has helped him though he has not had to chase a true sharp shooting gunner yet this season. soon we will see. the match up with d wade could be fun.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
10:55 am

Northcyde ,

You can have my $5.

From a post you sent my way during the game last night – yes, there was about 5 seconds on the clock when Joe passed the ball to Smith, who took the 3.

As a former Josh apologist, I totally get that people will take solace in the “well Joe passed it to him while the shot clock was running down.”

But they never have anything to say about when he arbitrarily decides to take those ill-advised jumpers early in the clock, midway through, or whatever. And there are a LOT MORE instances of him taking the shot at THOSE times, than there are of him taking them as a bailout last second option when the clock is winding down.

But you won’t hear anything when that comes up.

I always said dude needed a jumpshot. But I always thought it was better as a 12-15 footer, and once that was mastered, maybe he could extend it to 16 or 18 feet. Instead, he ignores that range and shoots from 16-23 feet….and continues to be horrible at it.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
10:56 am

I don’t know who has the top PER, but I can probably tell you who the top three Hawks are in efficiency rating.

Marvin
Teague
Pachulia

Now to go check and see if I’m right…

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
10:57 am

Big Ray . . you pay MAX for both and see if you can win a title within a year or two with those two guys as your centerpieces.

Remember, we still have the amnesty in our back pocket to use on JJ, just in case he goes into decline, or the team needs to be shaken up big time.

Smith and Horford last night combined numbers

21 points . . ( 8 – 18 FG )
11 rebs
5 asst
4 blks
2 stls

Dwight Howard by himself

20 points ( 7 – 16 FG . .. missed 8 FTs )
24 rebs
4 asst
4 blks
1 stl

Now to be fair to Smith and Horford, on an average night, we’re probably getting 30 – 34 pts a game and 16 – 20 rebounds from them. While Dwight will go for 20 points and 13 or so rebounds. So the question is like I posed last night. Can we insert a guy at PF who can get us 10 – 12 points and 6 – 8 rebounds a night in a starting role?

If we can, then Smith and Horford become expendable.

As for the actual numbers go, Howard will make significantly less money in his 1st year deal with the Hawks, than what Smith and Horford would make combined in 2012 – 13 ( which will be 25 million ). Just a rough guess and say that Dwight’s new deal will start somewhere around 16 – 17 million in this new CBA.

Basically, if you trade Smith + Horford for Dwight, he’s almost as good as those two combined ( all around ). The question then becomes what type of role playing PF do you put beside Dwight?

- a rebounder?
- a defender?
- a shooter?
- a slasher?

Ryan Anderson gets a ton of open looks because people are scared to death of Dwight.

If Teague keeps playing this well, the Teague – Johnson backcourt becomes a top 5 backcourt in the league. If you keep that along with adding Howard in place of Smith and Horford, this team becomes very dangerous.

Despite JJ being paid more than Dwight ( if he were to sign an extension ), we all will know who the superstar is. And Gearon/Sund would still have that amnesty to use on JJ if need be in the future.

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
10:59 am

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
10:56 am

I don’t know who has the top PER, but I can probably tell you who the top three Hawks are in efficiency rating.

Marvin
Teague
Pachulia

Now to go check and see if I’m right…

*****************

Paying Big Ray $5

darrell starks

December 31st, 2011
11:00 am

northcyde i agree with you totally but on defense Joe and Josh are beasting.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
11:01 am

I was wrong. Marvin has the highest EFF, followed by Teague, followed by Horford.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
11:04 am

Paying Northcyde $3, I’ll keep the other two ……lol

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
11:04 am

no Big Ray

you were probably looking at a non-updated section of stats on the Hawks.

This is the updated section.

Marvin is 1st . . Zaza is 2nd . . Teague and Horford are tied for 3rd.

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/atl/cat/PER/atlanta-hawks

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

December 31st, 2011
11:08 am

Hey Drew when Hinrich comes back please don’t send Teague to the bench. He has earned the starting job.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
11:13 am

Northcyde ,

I agree with you. That’s what any good owner and his front office would do. However, Gearon and Co don’t have the stones to play hardball with Otis Smith, even though he’s no master GM. Again, I agree with your reasoning. Some questions bouncing around in my head….

1) Would Otis Smith insist on Joe Johnson being part of the deal? If this is negotiable, would he take the rejuvenated Marvin instead?

2) Is Josh Smith part of this deal? I mean, I would be willing to give him and Horford up for Dwight, but would Dwight be ok with this, or is it a deal breaker like some writers suggest? I’m wondering if Dwight would rather play with an outside guy like Joe…

3) Good question on what kind of PF do you put next to Dwight. I say anything but a Rashard Lewis type, or he’ll break out in hives. I like Ryan Anderson, dude has game. But Dwight also needs somebody to “go to war” with him down low. The Magic kinda went that route with Big Baby Davis, but he’s foul prone and not as effective on the glass as they need him to be.

If we traded Smith and Horford, that might actually allow Marvin to play some 4, and we could add another guy like a Reggie Evans or something. Hell, we have Ivan Johnson, but he’s not a headliner. We’d need another guy. And if Marvin played the 4 a lot more, then we need a 3. Or we let Joe play 3 and then we need a 2.

I think I’m confusing myself.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
11:14 am

Dang…You’re right, I was looking at nba.com, which doesn’t update quickly enough. I can’t believe I got that one right…lol…

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
11:15 am

LOL Clyde . . . the fan base would protest outside of Philips Arena if Hinrich came back and took Jeff’s spot. Matter of fact, when we do get Hinrich back, I’d probably cut either Pargo or Green right away.

DHunt

December 31st, 2011
11:16 am

So far there is a lot to like about this incarnation of Atlanta’s Jr. Birds. The starters are as good as anyone in the league.

Jeff Teague can no longer just be called a pleasant surprise. DWill (twice) and JWall to start the season and quite simply he outplayed them. JT’s biggest problem is that he hasn’t had enough playing time. He is still fighting to get the team to do what he tells them, still building that b-ball IQ, and still a little bit antsy about getting the hook from his coaches (both Woodson and Drew are complicit in this particular gunshy-ness). Reminds me of Rondo in his first year as a starter. JT can be as tenacious a defender as any point in the league. And once he stops worrying about missing a shot, he will likely become a better shooter. I read complaints about him penetrating and not looking for to pass. Every one of his drives last night was intended to get to the rim because he recognized that the offense was stagnant, and he knew he could get to the rim any time he wanted to. Didn’t even attempt a jumper last night. Will be key to Hawks improvement this year, must stay healthy.

JJ, Josh, and Al continue to play well. Neither of them appears to have gotten better, and that’s a bit of a concern. But it is early, and the sample size is small because they haven’t had to play much. Joe is getting a lot less touches these days. I wonder how long that will last; I also wonder if it’s a better formula for Hawks success. Josh should never be given the ball and asked to create his own shot. He’s just not capable of doing it. He has to be a one dribble and go guy. Or get a good pass to go straight at the basket or even take a rhythm jumper. Anything but bouncing the ball off his and every other foot on the floor. It’s not too late to develop some moves, but until he does when the ball stops at Josh on offense, it’s going to be a problem. Al is just Mr. Consistent. And I wasn’t as big a fan when he first got here; didn’t really like his game. But he has grown on me because I know what I’m gonna get from Al. Must show he can be Consistent in big games and against high level opponents.

Marvin has been a the pleasant surprise. He doesn’t even walk as much like a duck as he did, which makes me believe that he has been dealing with that back injury for a long time. WTH is going on with the training staff that he played almost two years like he had a stick up his butt and we are just now finding out he had a bad disc in his back?! I like this new Marvin, and will like him even more if he shoots the long range jumper a little better. He’s going to get those open looks and he needs to make them. Look for him to be a better defender as well, which will be a key to the Hawks competing with Miami. A healthy Marvin may be able to clamp down on Bron-Bron.

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
11:31 am

I get that TMac has a ceiling in terms of his minutes per game (~20) but what does that have to do with Marvin’s playing time and substitution pattern? Hopefully, LD will begin to make the transition and mix-match the second unit with the starters.

Al looked good in those possessions when he was abusing Okur in the post. It was good to see him return as a viable low post option in the half-court sets. Also good to see Joe close out the game last night.

I said that I was optimistic about this team because of the balance across the roster. More players that could at least be good (if not very good) on both sides of the floor and guys who could bring a variety of skills to the team. I’m still hopeful that Willie Green will improve and that Vlad will get a few more opportunities (I think he is under-utilized on the 2nd unit). Both players will be much better when Hinrich returns, as Pargo seems intent to shoot every other offensive possession.

Rockets aren’t starting Dalembert (yet) but he and Scola will be formidable when they are on the floor together. They will certainly be the best big man combo the Hawks have faced this season. And Lowry is tough as nails, Teague needs to make sure that he is ready for some contact-basketball tonight.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
11:37 am

Astro ,

Rockets have historically beaten our tails on the boards. If Horford and Smith don’t get on the glass HARD tonight, or if either one gets into foul trouble, look for us to be in trouble, with our only safety valve on the glass being Pachulia.

Rockets will use Dalembert to keep Horford from scoring down low, and I don’t know that Horford will give much resistance. Scola will beat Josh Smith from the outside with that 18 footer if Josh doesn’t close out on him.

We’re going to need Marvin. The Rockets don’t have an answer for the new Marv, from what I can see. Also going to need a good night out of Joe.

Good call on the Teague/Lowery matchup.

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
11:38 am

Just say “no” to Howard. Especially if Joe is included in the trade. If you’re serious about competing for a title, you need a closer and Howard is the farthest thing from a closer as any superstar in the league. Howard and Josh are completely redundant… elite weakside defenders who ideally will operate in the post on offense. IMO, it leaves us in a comparable position as having Joe & Jamal on the same team.

Ken Strickland

December 31st, 2011
11:39 am

Having a guard rotation of JJ, Teague, Pargo and Green has really solidified our perimeter DEF. And has anyone noticed the vast improvement in our interior DEF, and the direct correlation between it and the improvement of our interior DEF. Have you also noticed that we’ve abandoned that SWITCHING DEF, which was used to compensate for our 2 former DEF liabilities. I’ve been preaching this would happen for sometime now.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
11:40 am

I think Willie Green will be alright but Pargo should be a sacrificial goat the very MINUTE Hinrich can come back and play at least 10 minutes per game.

Vlad’s up/down opportunities are another example of the sideshow joke that Larry Drew seems to be when it comes to utitlizing his bench properly.

Maybe that’s harsh, but I don’t get how he can screw things up with Marvin playing this well. We need that guy on the floor, and that’s been clear through 3 games. T-Mac serves a different purpose altogether.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
11:41 am

Yeah Ken, you’ve definitely been preaching…..

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
11:42 am

Ray, we all know that Kevin Martin can just as easily score 30 as he could go 4-17 with 11 points. So yeah, Joe and Marvin need to do the do tonight. I have faith in Horford, though. He showed me last night that the reliable low-post scorer is still there.

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
11:48 am

Ken, I’ll feel better about our defense when we’re playing teams not named the Wizards or the Nets. I do think that the scrambling/gambling defense is better. They are clearly going after more steals and being far more aggressive in the passing lanes. That is both an outcome of Teague playing as well as a fundamental change in coaching philosophy. Like anything else, it is a double-edge sword as guys will be left open when an attempt at a steal is unsuccessful. But my guess is that Lester Connor spent some time looking at how the Grizzlies defended during the playoffs (didn’t they average around 40 steals a game?) and decided to try some of those concepts with the Hawks. Nothing wrong with borrowing effective tactics from other teams. But again, when the only big men you’ve faced includes Kris humphries, Johan Petro, Javale McGee and Aundray Blatche, it may be a little early to trumpet how well your post defense is operating.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
11:54 am

Astro ,

So you wouldn’t trade Josh and Al for Dwight?

Or do you just wanna stick with what we got, knowing that we’re not going to add any necessary extra pieces because it gets us over the dreaded luxury tax? Does this team have what it takes (coach included) to contend for a title?

Smith.Leuer.Bogut

December 31st, 2011
11:55 am

“I have faith in Horford, though. He showed me last night that the reliable low-post scorer is still there.”

3 words: “Old @ss Okur.”

Now some more words: those post moves are uglier than Dwights. He just bumps and jumps. You can see where someone with length offers minimal resistance that he’ll short arms everything.

We’ll see how many post ups he manages against MIA’s length. We’ll see what Horford does to HOU with no Chuck Hayes.

Smith.Leuer.Bogut

December 31st, 2011
11:58 am

So you wouldn’t trade Josh and Al for Dwight?

Unless you win the title… Dwight is not comfortable taking one of his childhood’s friends spot in their hometown. Also does he like the ATL spotlight?

Josh would forever be belittled in comparison to Dwight. lol That’d be the ultimate betrayal.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
11:59 am

Reason I ask this is, how does this team get better?

As currently constructed, if you aren’t convinced by going 3-0 against the East’s worst teams (and who can blame you), then what about this team screams “leave it alone?”

I’m not suggesting that Dwight is the only guy we can get….but then, where do we see other openings or opportunities?

This team will continue to play well enough to avoid getting a decent first round pick, and our picks at those points are either traded for money, cast aside, traded away, or never really made the team (or overseas). So any real changes come via free agency or trade.

Free agency – we have improved the bench some, but maybe not enough. Starting lineup still has issues, we know what they are.

So again – if Gearon fears the luxury tax and will only pay it for big time players, then adding a big-time player is the only answer.

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
12:02 pm

For those who have forgotten, Joe Johnson is one damn good defender. He shut everyone down last night. Now I know the Nets aren’t the most talented team, but this guy gets it.

Jeff Teague made it look damn easy getting to the hoop yesterday.

Tonight’s game @Houston is one we NEVER USUALLY WIN. We SUCK vs. the state of Texas. But our starters have not played big minutes this year. We need to use our starters and put these guys away. They got killed last night but I’m looking for Houston to rebound.

FIRE GEARON

Ray

December 31st, 2011
12:11 pm

I’d rather keep what we have right now to be honest giving up Josh and Al is too much and if what is said to be true ASG just wants to give up Horford because they know of the Josh/Dwight buddy childhood friend crap.

I think tonight we are more likely to see what we are dealing with going forward for what it’s worth Marvin has done great it use to be he’d disappear on us by now.

Still buzzing over that half court 3 pt shot yesterday.

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
12:13 pm

Ray, I’m for trading to improve the team, just not sold on Dwight. I’d rather make a run at Deron than Dwight. As you know, tis team needs a true leader, so if I’m trading two of our three captains, I want someone who can rally his teammates AND help close games in the postseason. If we trade for Dwight, the remaining roster needs to be at least as good as the Magic team that made the Finals a few years back. That team (as I recall) included a very productive group including Vince Carter, Rashard Lewis, Hedo and Jameer. Once those guys got less productive, the overall team went backwards. If we want a superstar to sell more tickets, increase fan interest and then hope/pray that the ASG will exceed the luxury tax, then Dwight can do that will little certainty that the team will actually improve. If the intent is to improve the team’s playoff performance, I personally don’t see how trading 2 captains for Dwight achieves that result.

Ken Strickland

December 31st, 2011
12:16 pm

ASTRO JOE-While none of the Bigs you mentioned are big offfensive threats in the post, they certainly are big, tall, and/or athletic enough to be threats at the rim, and that’s where our interior DEF has improved the most. It’s not that Josh and Horford have suddenly become more athletic, although Josh has, but it’s because they are now firmly established inside at the rim, rather than switching off and guarding backcourt players on the perimeter.

Solid perimeter DEF also forces teams to
1-utilize more of the 24sec clock to set up their OFF,
2-get into the lane,
3-start their OFF farther out.

When you play solidTEAM DEF, especially solid perimeter DEF, you don’t need as much scoring punch as an offensively oriented team like the Knicks. They rely primarily on one player, rather than playing good team DEF. Just look at the Heat and Bulls to see how far good team DEF can take a team.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
12:21 pm

Astro Joe ,

Your elaboration on the original point was very enlightening. Well put.

Ray

December 31st, 2011
12:22 pm

Why make a run at Deron when we have Teague. Plus with the whole rent a Dwight I’m just scared that we lose Josh and Horford for nothing so in the end we go straight into rebuilding mode BIG TIME.

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
12:22 pm

Strickland, I understand the theory, I’m just saying that we haven’t yet observed the theory being tested yet. I think tonight will serve as a better test, with Lowry/Martin/Lee on the perimeter (and Lowry looking to penetrate constantly) and Scola doing his best Pau Gasol-light imitation.

school over basketball....what a concept!

December 31st, 2011
12:22 pm

Basketball season over yet? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Sherewshevsky

December 31st, 2011
12:24 pm

Hawks now are about to finish their preseason in Houston. Will they ever stop making excuses? It’s either lack of energy or incompetence. Do the real good teams lack energy as much as the Hawks seemingly do year after year?

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
12:25 pm

I posted on the last blog that the key to adding Dwight for the long term was all about what ownership could convince him of, and not who was on the roster that he might like to play with. After all, ownership controls who is on the roster.

Thing is, this isn’t about Dwight. It’s about ANY key player, any “big” acquisition that the Hawks could make via free agency/trade. Gearon and Co have to convince anybody who could make a big difference for us, any big name player – that they would like to come here, stay here, and be successful here.

I’d not frown on taking a shot at Deron, either, and I know that will make some unhappy in light of Teague’s apparent advancement. But to do that, you have to convince a guy that he’s better off here. Jersey has to convince Deron that they can and will make the moves necessary to build a contender. If not, you’ll probably be seeing him in Dallas. Common denominator between the two teams? An owner who isn’t afraid of the luxury tax, has the money, and wants to win it all.

Do we have that here?

bird

December 31st, 2011
12:30 pm

I can’t understand all the hating on Willie Green. Dude is a baller, its just 3 games in and people are talking about percentages? Come on man, at least get through 20 games before we start evaluating stats and percentages. Atl 3-0 is the only stat that matters right now.

Ray

December 31st, 2011
12:33 pm

@ Big Ray

Well if that’s the case #1 thing that ownership has is Josh Smith you know like we’ve said the best friend blah blah blah cause it’s been said over and over.

# 2 behind a few people we got a great SG

#3 we got Teague who is going to be better than any PG that Orlando has

After all that I’d rather ASKG convience Dwight to walk out of Orlando to pick him up so we could have Teague, Joe, Josh, Al, Dwight, Marvin, Hinrich, Zaza, and the rest fill in the blank. Cause at least after this year a part of Joe’s payment comes off the books so now you’re down to four years remaining.

Big Ray

December 31st, 2011
12:36 pm

Ray,

Joe’s price per year increases every year.

Gearon isn’t going to pay Dwight to come here, then keep everybody we have. Aint’ gonna happen.

Smith.Leuer.Bogut

December 31st, 2011
12:55 pm

marv is still garbage. When Smith was defending the perimeter yesterday. That left Marvin and Horford on the baseline.

Layup lines. Big for nothing on defense.

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
1:05 pm

Ray, my guess is that Dwight will cost more than Deron. He’s the top center in a league with maybe 4 decent centers AND we’re talking about a trade within the division. So I think there would be more pieces left behind if we traded for Deron. But personally, I wouldn’t trade for either without getting their signature on the dotted line for a long-term contract. Any owner who ignores what has happened in cities like Cleveland, Toronto or New Orleans needs to have his sanity checked.

Is it possible to improve this team without getting an All-NBA type player? I think so. I get all of the fan interest around the brand names, but aren’t there some lesser known (to casual fans) names that could be considered that would improve the team (even if there isn’t an immediate spike in ticket sales)?

Rev in Tampa

December 31st, 2011
1:08 pm

Ray

December 31st, 2011
1:22 pm

Didn’t think about that my bad, but as you can see I’d rather have Dwight here without the risk of losing two great players

If anything I’d just give up Al because it’d work for the both of us we get Dwight for ATL they get Horford cause he’s a UF product so he’d be loved and respected by Orlando

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
1:39 pm

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
1:05 pm

Is it possible to improve this team without getting an All-NBA type player? I think so. I get all of the fan interest around the brand names, but aren’t there some lesser known (to casual fans) names that could be considered that would improve the team (even if there isn’t an immediate spike in ticket sales)?

*************

When you say “improve”, what is an improvement?

Reaching Game 7 of the EC Semis but losing?
Reaching the EC Finals?
Losing in Game 6 or 7 of the EC Finals?
Reaching the NBA Finals?

What is an “improvement”?

I mean, yeah . . if we keep this team intact, and add a good starting quality player for say . . Hinrich’s expiring contract, we could improve without adding an All-NBA player.

But if you’re talking about winning a championship, here are your NBA Finals MVPs since Jordan first retired from the Bulls in 1998

Nowitzki
Bryant ( 2 )
Pierce
Parker
Wade
Duncan ( 3 )
Billups
Shaq ( 3 )

In the years each of these guys won an NBA Finals MVP, Tony Parker and Chauncey Billups were the only ones toNOT be named to at least an All-NBA 2nd team. And both of those guys played with big men who made the All-NBA team.

I mean . . would you rather trade Marvin for Gerald Wallace . . than to trade Smith + Horford for Dwight?

I guess that’s what it comes down to.

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
1:40 pm

Does anyone here have Dish Network? What package do you have in order to get SportSouth? My current package doesn’t have it and maybe I just want the one channel rather than a whole package

Smith.Leuer.Bogut

December 31st, 2011
1:49 pm

RE: would you rather trade Marvin for Gerald Wallace.

Can we do that?

Ray

December 31st, 2011
1:58 pm

It’s nice to talk about trades, but with only 3 games in the season I’d rather get more games logged in to see what happens at least give it till the trade deadline or near then to start that type of stuff.

vava74

December 31st, 2011
2:06 pm

A win is a win. 3-0 is better than 2-1. 

This season will be riddled with “upsets”. MIA only beat MIN because they played with 8 guys on the floor all the time. 

Charging foul by Lebron = FG+1…

The bottom line is that good teams also lose against bad and we avoided on of those losses. 

Just by looking at the boxscore it’s easy to conclude that our coaching tonight was not good: the bench guys  were getting the job and some of them should have had an extended rotation (or at least a few more minutes). In particular Zaza who was getting it done on the boards and T-Mac making plays for others (pleasantly surprised so far). 

But LD went to the starters regardless. 

Adelman, for instance, went with several of the subs all the way with great results last night. 

Bad coaching/Good coaching in stark contrast. 

Double Zero Eight

December 31st, 2011
2:08 pm

Any win is a good win. The Hawks have been
impressive thus far. Let’s hope they can
stay focused when they play Miami and Chicago.
We all said last year, even before he got the
chance, that Teague was ready to start.
He has proven us right.

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
2:10 pm

Vava . . that was one of the worst calls ever. That’s either a no call, or a foul on Lebron. Instead, they gave him continuation, the basket, and the foul. Just a horrible call.

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
2:16 pm

This is the Game Flow from last night, in case people want to see at what time in the game Drew played each player.

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20111230&game=NJNATL

Huh?

December 31st, 2011
2:18 pm

Don’t B Hatin’ on Willie Son! Brah gets mad bucketz namean?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SXeCfluEfU

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
2:38 pm

northcyde, how many of the guys you listed were first and foremost defensive superstars? How many of the bigs who won the MVP did not have an elite wing player alongside of him? Did you know that the one year that D12 made The Finals, that he averaged less than 16/game? That he was the third scoring option in the series? He is NOT a superstar that can lead his team into The Finals. Let’s not confuse any superstar with the kind of superstar who can actually deliver the goods. And if it is true that the only way to acquire Howard is to keep the clearly redundant Josh Smith, that makes it all the more reason to look to acquire a different elite player. One that will address what is missing from this team and not simply upgrade existing strengths.

KG would not have won without Pierce and Ray Allen. Howard is not likely to win it with Josh Smith and Jeff Teague.

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
2:44 pm

northcyde, and Howard averaged 11+ FTAs during The Finals against the Lakers. I wonder why they opted to foul him so much? Here’s what we know from our playoff series victory against the Magic last year. If D12 has marginal talent around him (including few players capable to making their own shot) and he is allowed to run rampant while his teammates are shut down, that such a roster is very likely to lose in the first round to a middling team.

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
2:51 pm

One more rant. The reason why CP3 has a much better chance at postseason (and continued) success with the Clips than the Hornets is because he can be the facilitator and have Blake Griffin be the man for a good 3.5 quarters. Steve Nash was at his best when he had guys like Amare, Marion and Joe at his side. KG got it done with Ray and Pierce. IMO, PGs and bigs MUST have elite scoring partners in order to get it done because they have other important responsibilities to their teammates outside of scoring.

doc

December 31st, 2011
3:00 pm

not sure if anyone will agree but the reason orlando went as far ss they did was because for two month turk played at a superstar level not because howard carried them.

if i remember correctly it should also be remembered as a year when the east was down, we were good enough and the basg refused to spend, thinking you dont spend until you reach the ecf. it was ours for the taking that year instead of watching a beat down.
a legit point or a legit big to add to the mix.

Maybe

December 31st, 2011
3:03 pm

On a nets blog, they seem to think JJ was holding back. They figured he would have abused their young SG’s morrow and Brooks. It’s true JJ said so after the game. He was just trying to catch and shoot and provide spacing. I think he’ll be ready for this next stretch of games. With that being said, JJ doesn’t have that “un-conscious” scoring mentality. Without Jamal joe’s going to have to channel some of that this season.

—————————————-

Also, Marvins efficiency for the amount of minutes he is playing is off the charts. I’ve been comparing his numbers after three games to some guys who I thought would be an upgrade at that spot (Rudy Gay, Danny Granger, Caron Butler) and his numbers are better overall. Gay and Granger are averaging a few more PPG but they’re playing 10+ more minutes than marvin. Marvin’s also got they crazy look in his eye. that look that say’s I’m desperate, angry, healthy and ready to kick butt and take names. You can tell he’ ready to prove himself with his new-found health. Like ‘nique would say, feed em’ and fan em’!

Sautee

December 31st, 2011
3:04 pm

doc,

Your bees are hanging in there.

Happy New year, bud.

Maybe

December 31st, 2011
3:08 pm

Nah, Orlando went that far because of Rafer Alston AND Turk those two together make that team incredibly difficult to contain. They are both different types of passers but together they were very lethal.

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
3:11 pm

Maybe, Joe doesn’t need to score each and every game. The Hawks are scoring well as a team and so far, Joe has resisted the need to put up shots just for the sake of putting up shots. Of course, it is impossible to be a 25 PPG scorer with an attitude like that.

doc, most teams who win it all almost always have a player (or two) who far out-produce their contract. Kind of like in baseballl, there are always a few guys who have “career years” when they win the World Series. Anyway, Turkaglu clearly had a career year that season with Orlando (and I think Rashard did as well).

drmaryb.[*_*].

December 31st, 2011
3:15 pm

And …

To jump in here with asteroid Astro Joe, CP3 is the QB, (the guy who has the keys to drive the Maybach). Dwight is more of a big WR or a TE.

So yeah, logistically CP3 controls the game outcome moreso if, only by the nature of that position. Conversely, on offense Dwight is merely a weapon of choice, an option to the QB.

Good stuff Astro Joe.

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
3:21 pm

Northcyde,

I doubt Portland trades Wallace. I think they love him out there.

And I still HAVE NOT HEARD a player or coach say “we want to win a championship” this year. All I hear is “we want to keep building on what we’ve done.” Blah blah blah

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
3:24 pm

It’s pathetic it took Marvin 6 years to realize he should be rebounding more (Joe Johnson too. how the hell are you 6″7 and the strongest SG in the league but can’t rebound? Go look at Steve Francis or Cuttino Mobley’s rebounding numbers from their Houston days). It’s good we finally now have 5 starters. For the past 3 or so years, we’ve played with 3 or 3.5 starters (Marvin and Bibby were the Achilles Heels)

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
3:28 pm

If these are the same ol’ Hawks, we will probably go 2-6 in the next 6 games.

@HOU L
@MIA W
@CHI L
MIA L
CHA W
CHI L

Tonight @ Houston is one of those games where we are just down 11-2 early and lose 97-84. MAKE IT DIFFERENT THIS YEAR. WE ARE BETTER THAN HOUSTON. I’M TIRED OF GETTING OWNED BY THE TEXAS TEAMS (AND OKC).

If we are a new team (now that Teague is FINALLY starting [9-12 last night!!!]), we should go at least 3-3 and win all the home games. Miami is going to be scary. Those d-bags should have 2 losses now. Should have lost to Charlotte (Tyrus didn’t play and Maggs was like 1-10) and apparently Minny got screwed over by the refs last night

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
3:28 pm

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
3:29 pm

We won 1 in Miami last year and lost the 3 other games. If we lose Monday I HIGHLY doubt we win Thursday at home. I predict we steal 1 in Miami if at all.

it’s not really a home-court advantage when the fans suck as much as they do in Atlanta. No one cheers outside of 100 people until there’s 5 minutes left and it’s a close game

DHunt

December 31st, 2011
3:32 pm

Dwight, Al, Josh, Joe, Jeff; I guess we can dream. Cause that damn sure isn’t happening. Do we need to trade to get better. Can we? I think we can win it all as presently constructed. That is predicated on all five guys being the defensive standouts they have the ability to be. It will also require Jeff Teague to continue to improve at his present pace; in my estimation he has the ability to be mentioned with the elites at his position, he just has to grow into it.

But more importantly, it requires that LD coach them up better on offense. We’ve got five legitimate scoring threats. But they have to be put in the right positions to be legitimate scoring threats. Joe can dominate given the right sets, Josh and JT can push the ball with the best of them, Al and Marvin need to be put in the right positions to score, but can also create their offense with hustle.

Now we could possibly use some help on the bench, but if TMac can stay healthy (I see him clutching at that bad back already), and if Pargo can get back in game shape, I actually like this bench more than any since the Hawks started winning. When Kirk gets back it will only improve. There’s a lot of backetball IQ on the bench (although Pargo trying to work his way back into shape isn’t showing much). Rather than having just one guy we can count on to do his own thing, we’ve got four that can play as a unit. They’ve been great thus far, and none of them played together before this year with no training camp. They should improve as the chemistry gets better with time.

If there is a glaring deficiency it’s coaching, and I hate to say that because I was one of the first on the LD bandwagon. I give him credit for getting these guys to step up the defensive game, and getting rid of that switching nonsense. But the motion offense is on again, off again. The offense bogs down entirely too much. They still rely too much on long jump shots. The substitution patterns are often mind-boggling. And on the court attitudes still need some adjusting (Josh, Joe). Maybe LD still has a bit of a learning curve and will also continue to improve.

The talk about personnel changes seems premature, especially with Marvin stepping up his game so far. Consistency is the key to championships in the NBA. You have to be able to do your thing every night, with very few letdowns. The more guys you have on the team who can be consistent, the better your chances. Superstars are superstars because they are consistently great, but a team full of consistently very good players can be very successful, even absent a superstar player. After all, there are at most 10 “superstars” in the league, and Miami has two of them.

drmaryb.[*_*].

December 31st, 2011
3:34 pm

HNY!

Blu-Ray
(Picture Perfect)

Just brilliant comments today and all week long. Have fun and be safe for the family and friends.

Mmmmmmmmwah!

The Truth

December 31st, 2011
3:50 pm

AJ: On point regarding the D12 trade

As I previously stated from a previous post:

“Believe it or not, it is possible to have a “bad” trade for Dwight”.

However, having said that though, there can actually be a “good” trade for D12 as well. But I have “zero” confidence in ownership’s ability to make such a trade. This franchise has no history of making successful blockbuster trades (of this magnitude).

The safe bet for this group is to walk away as they would surely find a way to botch it up. Find another “low risk” alternative to accomplish the upgrade goal.

Vino

December 31st, 2011
3:51 pm

Unlike some other point guards Teague has players on his team that can get there own shot therefore his turnover rate is going to be low….

Sometimes it’s hard to trust the hawks organization cause if you look at it Teague is our starter by accident???

Still Remain a faithful hawk fan!

Who Me?

December 31st, 2011
3:59 pm

Who are we kidding with this 3 and 0? The season starts Monday night, we all know that. Let’s see if we’re 4 and 0 Tuesday morning. you want the fans in this town to rally, show them you got some fight. we’re tired of losing here. Knock down a couple of wins this week against your real competition and you’ll find a lot more rah rah in the seats. Nobody’s drinking the koolaid right now Icecold, come see us next week and lets see how we stack up.

Peace

Sautee

December 31st, 2011
4:11 pm

“Let’s see if we’re 4 and 0 Tuesday morning.”

I can tell you right now that there’s NO WAY we will be 4 and 0 on Tuesday morning.

We will either be 5-0, or 4-1, or 3-2, but we will NOT be 4-0, having played 5 games.

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
4:23 pm

Astro . . the one thing you seem to be overlooking, is that Joe Johnson may benefit greatly, if Dwight was our center. It would mean that teams just couldn’t double JJ anytime they wanted. And if they doubled Dwight, he can kick it out to JJ for open shots.

I could definitely see a scenario in which JJ still leads this team in scoring at 19 – 23 ppg, simply because he’d get doubled less out on the perimeter. And with Teague’s ability to get into the paint, teams will start to focus on him more as well,. This will also make life for JJ easier.

In the year the Magic made the NBA Finals ( 2009 ), Dwight averaged 20 points – 15 rebounds – almost 3 blks and shot 60% FG. The big frontline of the Lakers did diminish what Dwight could do, no doubt about that. He still averaged 15.4 ppg – 15.2 rebs – 4 blks that series. But it took the big Laker frontline to stop him. NO one else in the league stopped him.

And he’s become a better offensive player since that 2009 Finals run.

In comparison, we got a little over 26 ppg – 18 rebounds – 3 blks – and 41% FG shooting from Smith and Horford combined in the playoffs last year. And a big frontline ALWAYS bother these guys.

Shoot, forget JJ, the addition of a Dwight Howard could turn Teague into a much better PG.

I just think you have to factor in how a guy like Dwight could help our backcourt, when you consider a deal like that.

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
4:32 pm

Northcyde,

What is your proposed trade offer for Dwight? Is there any way we could package Horford WITHOUT trading Joe, Josh, or Teague? We are very thin at the SF and if we trade Smoove I bet Howard leaves after the year

Rusty

December 31st, 2011
4:32 pm

Some one on the hawks seen the great potential of jt when he was drafted, to bad it wasn’t woody or Larry leisure. Con grad to dr Mary for seeing the light &actually apologizing to jt

brigadierjerry

December 31st, 2011
4:33 pm

Good game going on between LA and Denver in LA now.

I have made my points about Dwight being a go to guy. I would want him on my team but you would need other players on the team to make plays. He can be the setup person but I would take my chances being down a point or two expecting him to make a big shot. Therefore you would nee a Joe Johnson type of player or someone that can spread the floor and make shots. If the Dhoward trade happened I think Joe Johnson would have to stay. One thing I would do if possible would be to get Paul Gasol for a 2-3 year run.

I also think Teague’s ceiling is a that of a poor man’s derrick rose. He will be a guy that can score a lot of points and average about 7-8 assists a game.

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
4:34 pm

Everyone needs to look at how OKC built its team – through the draft + Perkins pretty much.

We are pretty similar but we don’t have a KD.

FIRE SUND

Rev in Tampa

December 31st, 2011
4:38 pm

Sautee,

Actually you might be wrong. The game is South Beach could be snowed out on Monday night.

Marvin and Zaza are the team MVP’s this season and Drew has started every game, so if hell can freeze over then it can certainly snow in Miami. It will be January on Monday.

Rusty

December 31st, 2011
4:41 pm

I’m very happy that the whole blog now knows how dumb woody & leisure are. Go jt the most exciting player on the team @ the pg we always needed. I just hope the hawks can win inspite of leisure Larry.

Rev in Tampa

December 31st, 2011
4:42 pm

Opps – “Drew has started Teague every game this year.”

My mind works faster than my fingers can type om this blackberry.

tyger

December 31st, 2011
4:44 pm

Early observations….

1. Teague has impressed thus far…
2. He’s great at layups, let’s see what happens next week…
3. Rotations not fixed yet, Green, Pargo still feeling their way…
4. TMac trying to fit-in too much, go ahead and do your thing…
5. ZaZa is a beast, what to do with ZaZa next year???….
6. Best second unit since John Battle, Spud, Antoine Carr…
7. Drew having trouble splitting Marvin/TMac time…
8. Don’t know what Hinrich adds to this group…
9. Like Pargo’s activity…
10. There’s something to be said for cohesiveness…

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
5:06 pm

northcyde, so you’re trading Josh & Al for D12?

I’m interested to see how Teague handles adversity (which every player must deal with during a given season). Will he be able to keep his head up? Will he stay focused? Will he play “casually” as he mentioned recently?

SteveW

December 31st, 2011
5:09 pm

I’m the guy who called Teague an above average PG, but not elite, at least not on a consistent basis. And if you’ve followed this blog long, you know I’ve been since before the draft when we snagged him, I’ve been one of his biggest supporters and fans.

But I say he’s above average and not elite because when he goes through a stretch and doesn’t shoot 9-12 or 5-7 etc., and maybe even has an 0-7 game with 4 assists a steal and a couple of turnovers, that’s no reason to ditch JT.

Remember last season when we traded for Hinrich and Teague was starting a few games. His stat lines weren’t great, but he changed the culture of this team. His speed, his D, his athleticism, just fits with the current version of the Atlanta Hawks. MC made the point that his perimeter D helps Josh and Al not having to come assist out front, hence Al with 3 blocks last nite.

Now 60% thru the season if Teague is averaging 16 and 8 I’ll say I’m wrong. I just don’t want our expectations to get so crazy for Teague that when he goes 5 games and doesn’t crack double figures, and shoots 30% for that stretch that this blog is ready to ditch him.

The dude’s a keeper in my book.

And as far as obtaining Dwight or CP3, give me Dwight all day long, but don’t gut your team for him. He’s not winning anything apparently as constructed in Orlando, and that’s with a team of jumpshooters tailor made just for Dwight. Jameer, JRichardson, Hedo, Anderson, Reddick, QRichardson, Duhon, and the rest are not slouches.

So get him for a reasonable price if you can, but don’t guy your team. Your probably closer to a championship w/o him right now than with him.

And I take him over CP3 for the simple fact that cp3 probably has 3 years max of elite play left in him. Then he’s Bibbyfied.

SteveW

December 31st, 2011
5:11 pm

Bibby never has had knee surgery has he, like CP3?

SteveW

December 31st, 2011
5:12 pm

Dwight probably has 10+ years of elite play left.

Smith.Leuer.Bogut

December 31st, 2011
5:12 pm

I think we can win it all as presently constructed. That is predicated on…

beating 2 teams that are headed to the lottery.

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
5:17 pm

JeJe . . I’m completely breaking up the core

Smith + Horford + 1st round 2012 . . . for Dwight + Ryan Anderson

If they want an extra 1st round pick, I’d do it IF Dwight agreed to sign a long term extension right away.

If they don’t want to give up Anderson, then give us anybody ( BUT Turkoglu ) to make the numbers work.

Horford + Smith + two 1sts should be more than enough to get Howard + filler. Not like we use our late 1st round picks around here anyway.

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
5:20 pm

Well, I think there is a difference between being a PG and being a lead guard. I think he is clearly a lead guard and that clearly works in today’s league. But there will be times in a game (and more during the playoffs) when he will need to be a PG, someone who controls the tempo and “manages the game”. Said differently, someone who gets it done based on his head and not his athleticism. That is what turned Derrick Rose and Rajon Rondo into elite PGs. That (IMO) is the difference between a Steve Francis and a Derrick Rose.

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
5:22 pm

Northcyde, I agree.

Trading Joe IMHO for Dwight is dumb. Who is our starting SG if that happens? Willie Green?

I am however not opposed to taking on Turkoglu (which I think is required for a trade to get done). Even though 99% of the people out there think he is washed up, he still puts up numbers. He is very tall (6″10) and can still play. I’ve seen far worse contracts than his

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
5:24 pm

I’d be more than happy to take Redick or even Ryan Anderson though. I will never forget when he was on NJN and scored like 20 on us. He looked unstoppable (I think Vince was on their team at that point), as does every relatively unknown player who goes against us early in his career (DJ Augustin 30 vs us at Philips Arena anyone?)

Grandmaster JeJe

December 31st, 2011
5:25 pm

Did it feel to anyone else last night that early in the game, Smoove took like 6 straight shots for us and they all were awful?

I also loved the T-Mac/ZaZa pick&roll last night. We definitely scored some points off it. Hope to see more tonight.

Must-Win tonight. I’m tired of losing to the Texas teams+OKC!!!!!!!!

Najeh Davenpoop

December 31st, 2011
5:29 pm

Joe + Al + Kirk for Dwight + Hedo + Jason Richardson would work. Of course Ryan Anderson instead of Hedo would be all the better.

Ken Strickland

December 31st, 2011
5:30 pm

ASTRO JOE-I believe it was soundly tested in last yrs 1st rd playoff series against the Magic, with Hinrich at PG, and in the 2nd rd playoff series against the Bulls, with Teague at PG. It just gives us anoher weapon we can use to win close gms, or make comebacks. Let’s face it, from the time Woodson was hired to the time we traded for Hinrich, we’ve relied almost exclusively on OFF to win close gms or make comebacks. There was no other way it could have been with Bibby and/or Jamal on the court at crunch time.

If you have to choose between trading Horford or Josh for Dwight, Josh would be the logical choice to be traded, and here’s why:
1-Horford’s extremely effective midrange shooting touch, which leads the NBA, makes him a much better compliment to Dwight’s inside gm.
2-Horford’s ability to play PF and OC gives you a backup center, which allows you to include Zaza in the trade. You can’t do that with Josh.
3-Horford is the NBAs best passing center, and one of its best passing frontline players period.
4-Horford is more physical than Josh, and is a better rebounder and more efficient scorer.

I know that all of you HORFORD HATERS are too stuck on SUPID

Rev in Tampa

December 31st, 2011
5:36 pm

Of course if we get Dwight we will release Collins and Orlando will pick him up, thereby enabling them to knock us out of the playoffs.

Phuch Le` Duch

December 31st, 2011
5:42 pm

do you trade 2two elite starters joe and al for one elite starter dwight?

Astro Joe

December 31st, 2011
5:44 pm

Najeh, sounds like you’re saying that the Orlando core with Josh & Teague would be the right combination?

Rev in Tampa

December 31st, 2011
5:45 pm

Phuch Le’ Duch, I think it is more accurate to say, “Do you trade 2 elite starters, Joe and Al, for one first ballot Hall of Famer?”

Rusty

December 31st, 2011
5:48 pm

Mortcyde. Have you started drinking already,al & Josh for Howard,give them al & joe

Phuch Le` Duch

December 31st, 2011
5:52 pm

pronounced / foosh le duke

drew does not wear leasure suits any more. it looks like they are taylored now.

The Truth

December 31st, 2011
5:52 pm

“Of course if we get Dwight we will release Collins and Orlando will pick him up, thereby enabling them to knock us out of the playoffs”

Rev
LOL

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
5:59 pm

I hate Turk’s contract ( and his game, for that matter ). But then again, this is where the amnesty will come into play. I believe he would be eligible to be amnestied, because he signed that contract in the previous CBA.

Let’s say we do add Turkoglu though . . this is the squad

PG: Teague
G: Johnson
F: Turkoglu
F: Marvin
C: Howard

I think that’s who I would put as the starters. If this is the case, Marvin needs to continue to play much like he’s playing right now, to compliment Dwight on that frontline. Bigger PFs would have trouble guarding Marvin out on the perimeter, if he decided to face them up and drive on them.

doc

December 31st, 2011
6:03 pm

sautee so disappointing, just got in to see the last play.

hope our hawks dont start and finish like the bees did this year.

happy new year to you bro and lila, hope yu have a great 2012 and start it off right.

doc

December 31st, 2011
6:05 pm

clev rev is on his game today.

northcyde killing it.

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
6:08 pm

Crusty . . . you need a shot creator on the perimeter who can get his own shot at any time. JJ represents that guy.

Now Najeh’s trade, I wouldn’t be against either. But J-Rich isn’t the player JJ is, and J-Rich would end up taking a lot of those tough shots down the stretch of games. Najeh’s trade has the Hawks looking like this

PG: Teague
G: Richardson
F: Marvin
F: Smith
C: Howard

If you can get Smith to become a slasher, and not jack up jumpers, that’s actually a good starting 5 . . IF . . you can get consistent offense out of J-Rich. Turk becomes your 6th man. T-Mac your 7th man ( and may have to play 3 positions ).

Whatever team we assemble, I think it gives us a better shot to win, than our current team.

But let’s see if this current team can continue to play defense at this high of a level.

drmaryb.[*_*].

December 31st, 2011
6:22 pm

Add ‘Em Up!

” … but we will NOT be 4-0, having played 5 games.”
- Sautee-
_________

Right you are.
(I’m filling in for the DUI) LOL

yodaddybrother

December 31st, 2011
6:43 pm

you guys come up with the dumbest trades.

HEDO TURKOGLU???? have you guys seen this man play recently??? He’s flat out terrible nowadays and having him undermines the idea of actually playing defense or rebounding. Add that in with a horrendous contract.

Jason Richardson is older than Joe Johnson, smaller, less productive and presents no matchup problems.

There’s no way Atlanta trades BOTH Joe Johnson and Al Horford to get Dwight Howard. It will be one…with some complementary players and draft picks/cash. That’s the reason this deal will never get done.

If trying to lure Dwight, trading Josh Smith is forbidden. We aren’t trading a Top 5 SG (contract aside) either. That leaves Al Horford as the odd man out.

brigadierjerry

December 31st, 2011
6:44 pm

drmaryb,

Whats up?whats your thoughts on this Hawks team?Do you like this team better than last years or the 2007 Hawks team?I know it is early but next week you would have to take going 4-2 or at worst 3-3 next week playing bulls and heat twice next week

Wishful thinking

December 31st, 2011
6:45 pm

Too many of you guys think with your heart and not with your head.

REALITY CHECK

The offer being discussed does not include our #1 vote getter on the All star team Josh Smith. He is part of the bait that is being used to insure Howard will stay.

JJ is not part of the deal being discussed. He too is going to be part of the mix…as it is being discussed with Howard, Josh and JJ

All NBA AL and 2XAllstar is being discussed. Its a good opportunity for Al Who gets to return back to Florida, Play forward and Center while having the offense run through him. That’s who Orlando wants and that’s who they will get.

Howard gets his wish to come home and bring a championship with his commercial and marketing buddy and best friend Josh. So its a win/win for both Howard and Al.

The people in Florida know what Al can do.Hes reached his peak here and so has the Hawks with him at the post. I wish Al my best.

It time to pull the trigger on the deal and lets move on to the next chapter.

JaeEvolution

December 31st, 2011
6:49 pm

Bynum absolutely beasted today, which makes me wonder why the Lakers would want to trade for Dwight Howard when Bynum can easily be 1b at the Center position in the NBA who is also younger than Dwight and probably more skilled offensively.

I think the Hawks are in a good position for Dwight to be completely honest. Nets don’t have any trade assets since Lopez went down. Lakers HAVE a solid Center and need to realize no player is immune to injuries and Bynum can be just as good as Dwight. Mavs will wait until Free Agency to make a move for Dwight/Deron. That still leaves a bunch of teams but about 3/4 won’t make a serious bid for him.

Wishful thinking

December 31st, 2011
6:50 pm

northcyde I thought you had some sense. Where did the honorable Mother northcyde go wrong?

brigadierjerry

December 31st, 2011
6:53 pm

I really think the only teams that are in play for Dwight are Atlanta, Dallas La and maybe OKC but Bynum is a good player and Buss said he wont trade Bynum and Gasol. I think NJ with Brook down is out by the time he comes back wont be that big a sample for him to play for Orlando to make moves. If you can get Howard for Al Horford and other pieces not names JJ and Smith, I would go for it.

JBrown

December 31st, 2011
6:54 pm

Will Be A Tough Resilient Houston Team After Their Loss Last Night….The Bench Will Play A Huge Role Tonight For Both Clubs

Sautee

December 31st, 2011
6:56 pm

Wishful Thinking is an excellent name for one who keeps revisiting pipe dreams.

Good Luck T-S, and happy New year.

northcyde

December 31st, 2011
6:56 pm

LOL @ #1 getter on the All-star team. Also the guy Charles Barkley made fun of on national TV as being a Test Dumbie for continuing to jack up jumpers.

Josh Smith, in my opinion, is the heart and soul of the Hawks. But he also represents why we can’t get to the next level. People keep waiting for him to “get it”, but he simply doesn’t. And his ‘tweener’ status is also a reason why we can’t match up with elite teams.

I’m on record as saying that I’m for trading ANY two of our Core. But I also know the history of the league. Most championship level teams have an inside-outside offensive game that makes them hard to defend.

It’s almost gametime, so I’m sure that MC is about to close this topic

JBrown

December 31st, 2011
6:56 pm

Teague Plus D.Howard Could Be Very Good

hittman jamillion

December 31st, 2011
7:02 pm

Big Ray it doesnt matter what city you in to spend money,that depend on the owners. Hell San Antonio not a major market city,but I remember them having two max guys in TD &DR, hell i can name a plethora of teams in bad markets over the cap with bad contract. Hell the team we discussing Orlando just had two max contracts in DH,and Reshard Lewis and a near Max in Turk,J Rich, and Jameer Nelson.
It’s bout is the money gonna turn back a investment and keeping jj,with teague,and DH IS A BETTER OPTION TO when more games which will increase more revenue for we will go further. Plus if we didnt give jj that money i can hear,they dont wanna win they cheap

Wishful thinking

December 31st, 2011
7:03 pm

Rusty,yodaddybrother,Phuch Le` Duch – Co-sign,co-sign and co-sign!

“I know that all of you HORFORD HATERS are too stuck on SUPID”

The intelligent bloggers who can see the value and substance of a Al Horford Trade are not Haters, are they Ken?

I actually think they may be more intelligent than you, Ken Strickland, nor do I think their decision to trade Al is based on an emotion or passion like hate, but rather its is clear logic.

Before you behave like a 3rd grader and call people stupid, I suggest you try taking some courses on how to spell stupid, (i think thats what you meant because ive not heard of supid), before you call some one stupid.

Supic is as supic does

Wishful thinking

December 31st, 2011
7:07 pm

Thank you, Sautee, thats exactly why I choose the name to point out dubious dreams.

P.S. (post script)

Happy new year to you also

Wishful thinking

December 31st, 2011
7:13 pm

northcyde, you laugh as if to make mockery, when the reality is Josh received over 100k more votes for the All star team than did Al and 50k more than Joe. If you dont mind, Just the facts, ma’am.

When cant get to the next level because 1) we dont have a quality center, 2) we dont have a quality coach.

Ive followed you over the years and often thought of you as an bright spot in a dark room. Your bulb is dimming. Let me be the second one to ask have you been drinking?

Put down the car keys,

Wishful thinking

December 31st, 2011
7:17 pm

*We can t get to the next level because 1) we dont have a quality center, 2) we dont have a quality coach.

2 FOR JOHN DREW

January 1st, 2012
1:16 am

Totally entertaining blog !!!!!!!!!!!!!