Atlanta Hawks: Fun with numbers
Hoopdata.com has updated its stats through last night’s games and they reveal that the Hawks are the best team in the league.
After two games. Against bad opponents.
OK, it doesn’t mean much. But what’s the harm in my blog people looking at these lovely numbers before reality rears its (potentially disappointing) head?
The Hawks are No. 1 in defensive efficiency and No. 3 in offensive efficiency. They are No. 1 in opponent effective-field goal percentage and No. 3 in defensive rebounding rate.
Atlanta is No. 5 in true-shooting percentage , No. 3 in 3-point shooting percentage and No. 4 in three-point attempts. The Hawks are No. 9 in free-throw rate and No. 3 in free-throw percentage.
Alas, there are some things that not even a miniscule sample size and lackluster opponents can cure. The Hawks rank No. 16 in block rate and 27 percent of their 161 field-goal attempts have been long 2s after 30 percent of their attempts last season came from the most inefficient distance.
Still, block rates don’t mean as much when the Hawks are holding opponents to .8 points per possession and the long 2s are not as damaging when they are shooting just as many 3s and making them at a good clip. Of course, these developments may not continue once the competition stiffens but the Hawks are dominating lesser opponents and that’s the best result possible at the moment.
Plus, isn’t it fun to look at those numbers no matter the context?
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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154 comments Add your comment
bring dwight
December 30th, 2011
4:28 pm
During an appearance Thursday on ESPN Radio with Linda Cohn and Adnan Virk, Hawks center Al Horford was asked about ESPN.com’s report earlier this week that Atlanta engaged Orlando in Dwight Howard trade talks this month, as well as the notion that the Magic would surely want Horford as part of any swap if the talks ever go anywhere. “Wow,” Horford said. “I guess I’m heading back to Florida. … I don’t know, that’s interesting, I know that Dwight is from here, but as far as I know, this is the first I’ve heard of it. But it’ll be interesting.” ESPN.com
Section 303
December 30th, 2011
4:29 pm
Mike, I think the Hawks could give both Miami and Chicago a good run, if they added the right player. No chance if you add Dwight and give up Joe and Al or Josh. The Hawks problems over the past 3 seasons has not been the core group. It’s been lack of depth. The elite teams always run out 9-10 quality players. The Hawks have not.
Also, making the rumored Howard trade means the Hawks have given up on trying to hang with Miami for the next 3-4 years. Hawks would get Howard for 22 games and one postseason. Then he leaves. That means the Hawks make a deal on remaining pieces and try to rebuild. Granted, they would be in good rebuilding position (money under cap and probably aquired draft picks). But, we’ve seen that position before. Once you’re there, it takes a long time to get good again.
Plus, I don’t want to just give Miami the next 3-4 seasons. I know most put Chicago at the Heat level, but I don’t. I still think the Hawks are capable of beating Chicago in a series.
The Truth
December 30th, 2011
4:37 pm
“Hinrich is starting to feel more settled in Atlanta. He and his wife, Jill, welcomed their second child in September. But he is anxious to return to the Hawks, who haven’t trailed this season and are just the third team in NBA history to win their first two games by a combined 50 points or more.
“We feel like we’re a dangerous team and when we play the right way, we can beat anybody,” he said. “It’s just trying to put forth that effort every night and not try to have the roller coaster that we’ve had last year. We played great but we were just up and down a lot.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/post/kirk-hinrich-gone-but-presence-with-wizards-still-felt/2011/12/30/gIQAkxtTQP_blog.html
If the past 2-game sample by the Hawks becomes legit, Hinrich notion of the Hawks being a “dangerous team” may indeed be “The Truth”. If so, Sund reaching out to Otis for a trade proposal for D12 could become the other way around (Otis reaching out to Sund) if the Hawks sweep Orlando in the regular season. While this is only a thought, the notion may not be that outrageous considering how teams tend to seek those teams out viewed as successful. Dallas championship is a good example. Regardless of what the naysayer say about these Hawks, their envy list is long and still growing.
If we could make a serious playoff run with our beloved core and new players, teams and prospective players would seek us out for all kinds of offerings just as T-mac came to us (we didn’t reach out to him). Seemingly, Otis could be motivated to stop our momentum with a “bad” trade between the Hawks and Orlando. With our current ownership, anything is possible.
History has shown us, when want them to say “yes” to a trade, they say “no”. When we want them to say “no” to a trade, they say “yes”. Believe it or not, it is possible to have a “bad” trade for Dwight.
We shall see
Mike
December 30th, 2011
4:39 pm
@drmaryb.[*_*].
*slap internet High 5*
You are so right about that, Rick Sund knows that too, it is always a risk when you make trades like this but also has the amount of reward as well. D12 can give up a advange over teams and you know that he will give you 15-20 rebs per game and so much more.
Risk vs Reward, is the question that we need to ask about this, if D12 wants to come here and resign for a long term deal, then pull the tigger if not, just use those assets for other things but I think that this opportunity only come once in a lifetime.
Astro Joe
December 30th, 2011
4:41 pm
“It’s just trying to put forth that effort every night…”
Which is why leadership is more important than acquiring just any superstar. Either add a leader or subtract those who don’t bring it every night.
Rufus1
December 30th, 2011
4:49 pm
Horford and filler(Kirk)….
No way do we give-up more than that for 22 games and a post season….This Joe + Al for D12 is CRAAAAAAAAAZY. You don”t give-up 2 Allstar players for a very SHORT RENTAL.
With JOE and JOSH on the team, we have a better chance to RE-SIGN him….That is a called a CALCULATED RISK! Playing for a championship team in his HOMETOWN, will improve our chances to sign him.
Trading away so much TALENT that we become AVERAGE or WORSE, isn’t a SOUND business RISK!
JaeEvolution
December 30th, 2011
4:54 pm
“I guess I’m heading back to Florida. … I don’t know, that’s interesting, I know that Dwight is from here, but as far as I know, this is the first I’ve heard of it. But it’ll be interesting.”
ASG said they didn’t want to fully propose a trade to Magic because it clearly effects the morale of certain players, just look at Lamar Odom in Dallas now from the Lakers trade. Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if a deal was done, that it would be a quick and fast one.
JaeEvolution
December 30th, 2011
4:58 pm
The Melo trade should show that a superstar isn’t worth nearly as much as some are willing to pay, if the Knicks had never done the trade for Melo they’d EASILY be better off right now.
They probably would have finished same spot they did and got bounced by Boston regardless, but in the off-season they could still have acquired Chandler and gotten their draft pick Shumpert. Their team would look like this Felton/Field/Gallo/Stat/Chandler with a strong bench of Douglas/Shumpert/Chandler/Jefferies/Mozgof that team would be scary to play under Mike Dantoni offense, but now without a playmaker or any depth the Knicks are just awful they have superstars but no one to get them the ball or create for them for easy points.
northcyde
December 30th, 2011
5:00 pm
KZ
December 30th, 2011
4:06 pm
Trading Joe + Al/Smoove will not improve this franchise. If you trade Joe, you are left with T-Mac (can’t play over 20 mpg) and Willie Green at SG.
_____________
That’s why if you do make a trade . . you trade Smith + Horford + 1st round pick 2012 for Howard and Ryan Anderson. You’d stay solid in the backcourt with Teague and Johnson, to compliment Howard on the frontline. You may even think about starting T-Mac at SF and moving Marvin to PF as a “stretch/slasher” guy at the 4 spot ala Gerald Wallace.
PG – Teague
G – Johnson
F – McGrady
PF – Marvin
C – Howard
Could Marvin at PF get you 8 rebounds a game? Well let’s see. According to 82games.com, when Marvin played PF last year, he got 10.4 rebounds per 48 minutes. On a per 36 minute basis, that comes out to 7.8 rebounds a game.
The “new Marvin” looks as if he can finally become a good rebounder, especially on the offensive boards. Play him alongside Dwight, and he may look even better. If not, you can always move Marvin back to SF ( which he’d play there anyway even if he started at PF ), and start one of the “stretch 4’s” in Anderson or Radmanovic.
As far as the other positions, Zaza would still be your backup center and even be featured alongside Dwight in a “Twin Towers” type look. Even everybody’s favorite backup PF, Ivan Johnson, may get more run at PF, splitting time with long shooting Ryan Anderson.
Bench
PG – Hinrich ( when he comes back ) / Pargo
G – Green ( but he or Pargo will be gone once Hinrich comes back )
F – Radmanovic
F – Anderson/I. Johnson
C – Zaza
So in essence, losing Horford + Smith would mean adding the most dominant force at center in the league, plus adding a “stretch 4″ in Anderson. Shoot, when we get healthy, you could literally throw this lineup on the floor
PG – Hinrich
G – Johnson
F – Radmanovic
F – Anderson
C- Howard
That basically surrounds Howard with a bunch of 3 point shooters.
Hawks will never do that trade though. And the fans that love Smith or Horford would be totally against it. They would get over it in a week though, after they see how much more efficient the team would become.
northcyde
December 30th, 2011
5:03 pm
Hawks fans talk out of the sides of their mouths. Had we lost these 2 games, 80% of the fans would be talking about blowing this team up. But because we looked impressive against two bad teams, now people don’t want to make a move.
Folks . . to win a championship, you need a SUPERSTAR.
PERIOD.
You can win GAMES without a superstar, but you can’t win championships without one. Unless this current squad becomes the Detroit Pistons, and just starts shutting EVERYONE down defensively, they’re not winning a title.
You do the Dwight trade
northcyde
December 30th, 2011
5:04 pm
YOu do the Dwight trade ONLY if you’re serious about possibly playing for a title.
And even if D-12 leaves after one year, you’d have Teague and Johnson still as our backcourt, with a ton of cap space to go after a good frontline player.
But the move should only be made if the ASG/Gearon/Sund are SERIOUS about going for an NBA Title.
They’ll play it safe though, and do nothing.
Mike
December 30th, 2011
5:07 pm
I like Smith and Horford too but I am a Atlanta Hawks fan, and if this trade make us better, then I am all for it because the goal is to get to the NBA Championship and if we can get one step closer for that, then we know what to do.
Rufus1
December 30th, 2011
5:16 pm
Northcyde
I would make that trade for all the reasons you listed and so would the Magic.
Slimjr
December 30th, 2011
5:19 pm
45 years NO ECF NO CHAMPIONSHIPS??????????????????????????????????? WTF???????????
GET IF DONE GEARON!!!!!!!!JETTISON THE CORE AND GET A SUPER DUPER ALL in D12 YESTERDAY!!!
Enough is Enough, pull the trigger and make it HAPPEN! AYE CAPTAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
December 30th, 2011
5:21 pm
I SEE STARS???????????????????
“SUPERSTARS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS” Quote: Northcyde!
Mike
December 30th, 2011
5:23 pm
Also, you can still try to have him to extend with us, I am not going to give up some of younger player from a 3 month rentals. If D12 is serious about coming here and willing to stay here as well, then pulled the tigger on this.
If Dwight was a big Hawks fans when he was younger, then maybe he would understand about Manning deal and what happened after that to this team. If he and his agent is willing to listen to us and put an effort to resign here then do the trade.
Steven A
December 30th, 2011
5:26 pm
Hawks must clear salary for 1st round draft pick plus they should make a solid run at JR Smith once
he gets a buyout from his Chinese team….If they cannot trade Joe before the deadline, will he be
amnestied? Teague is PG of the future. JR Smith would be an excllent “2″ guard for the next 5-6
years.
DB
December 30th, 2011
5:30 pm
DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT Trade for Dwight Howard…its easy for everyone to fall in love with the hometown hero crap. For what you have to give up to get him we would not field a competitive team. He simply does not fit the offense we have. He needs to be in a offense where there are shooters around so he can kick out when he is doubleteamed. This isnt it. We have streaky shooters with slashers on the squad with the exception of JJ ….DO NOT MAKE THIS DEAL
Steven A
December 30th, 2011
5:30 pm
Joe Johnson has lost a few steps. His best days are behind him. I would have never re-signed Joe
after his performance in the post-season against the Bulls, No way!!!
Mike
December 30th, 2011
5:36 pm
@DB
Actually he does fit this offense, since he can actually get into the low block and he can pass really good from there, it will be a field day for JJ, who is deadly when he is a catch and shoot and Teague who can get into the hole and score close to the basket/
Steven A
December 30th, 2011
5:38 pm
Dwight Howard–JR Smith—Jeff Tegue–Kurt Heinrich–Radmonivich, T Mac plus any decent PF puts you deep into the playoffs. Make a trade for Howard ASAP.
Rufus1
December 30th, 2011
5:41 pm
The Bulls are trying to give-up Boozer and Noah for D12…or Josh and Al….Which is the better trade?
Phuch Le` Duch
December 30th, 2011
5:42 pm
pronounced / foosh le duke
joe johnson, marvin williams, and zauer pachulea gets it done.
the hawks will place this both of this years second round picks and 2013 first round pick into the deal.
the hawks will take back chris duhon and dwight howard.
at least that’s what i’m hearing while i’m down here in florida awaiting the outback bowl.
i usually post on the dawgvent. godawgs
Rev in Tampa
December 30th, 2011
5:47 pm
DB, are your initials really AH?
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 30th, 2011
5:48 pm
Do You Even Have To Ask?
“@drmaryb.[*_*].
*slap internet High 5*” -Mike-
____________
What would Jerry do? LOL! Hey Mike, these people are clinging to their ceiling (multiple 2nd round exits), and afraid to reach for the sky! (the unknown). They would rather play with the devil they know than the one they don’t. Skurred … skurred … scarey people.
Listen up my friends! YOU MAKE THE TRADE! Is that clear enough for you?
_______________
Listen Up!
The Hawks NEED a center. Al said he is a natural PF and Josh and himself need some SIZE help in the post to be any type of a contender for a title. So, unless yawl see a dominant big man walking through the Hawks tunnel tonight, then you go and get the 1st ballot HOFer – Dwight.
All that other stuff yawl are talking is cow dung. Period.
If you don’t want to be “relevant”? Then, at least be “real”-istic. I you don’t believe me, then call Jerry Buss and Kupchak and, ask them IF you do the deal? They would lAugh you off the phone in utter disbelief. Do you even have to ask?
sportschick
December 30th, 2011
5:50 pm
Although the opponets were not that great u still have to play these teams. Even the Miami Heat and MC u and Sekou Smith really hoping the hawks fail this season I see. Just so u can tell the world ( I told you so). Eventhough the hawks opponets have not been great there is something I see in this team in the past 2 games that I didnt see last season. They are putting their foot on these “BAD” teams and not letting up. U see last season they played down to their competition this year they are ballin and not looking back. I know noone in the media will give them props until they beat a quality team like on monday but I’m giving them props now. GO HAWKS MAKE YOUR HATERS YOUR MOTIVATORS!!!!!
Steven A
December 30th, 2011
5:51 pm
Al Horford is a defensive liability, he cannot protect the rim…He must be replaced for the Hawks to
advance in the playoffs.
Rev in Tampa
December 30th, 2011
5:51 pm
Phuch Le` Duch,
Do you live in Tampa or just visiting for the Georgia game?
My wife considered giving me a ticket to the game, but I reminded her that we have the first of our four children in college so we should save the $100. If I had known that my mother in law was going to be here all week I think I would have taken the ticket.
Steven A
December 30th, 2011
5:57 pm
The Orlando Magic want a BIG for Dwight. It will be Andrew Bynum, guaranteeeeeed!!!!!
KevinM
December 30th, 2011
6:02 pm
“Sources told ESPN.com that the Hawks’ offer to Orlando definitely featured $124 million guard Joe Johnson. Expanding such an offer to include Horford, an All-Star in the East as well, would obviously be harder for the Hawks to digest, but Josh Smith’s close friendship with Howard, as Michael Cunningham of the Atlanta Journal Constitution suggested this week, would seem to give Atlanta cause to keep Smith around”
This makes the most sense in any rumor we have heard. You have to give to get folks, and we are getting the top C in the game. You have to pay something and giving ORL that salary just makes me giddy.
Any move for D12 has to include Joe, plain and simple.
We aren’t LA or NY; we can’t handle 2 guys taking up over 50% of our cap. Gearon isn’t moving into lux cap land as an owner, so we’re going to have to do this within our limits.
What else goes with Joe? Well, Al should go too and then we take back a Reddick or JRich and roll with it. Can we get a better 2 in the near future? Its easier than getting a C or PG, that we know. Our strategy would be a game of inside working outside that’s for sure.
Sund: “I can get D12/change for Al and Joe.”
Sund’s conscience: You can’t do it; you can’t go out and top that Ray Allen deal you did last decade! You have built this contender! You fool!”
KevinM
December 30th, 2011
6:03 pm
Sund’s conscience: “And you can’t trade Marvin now! He has had back-2-back good games”
Astro Joe
December 30th, 2011
6:06 pm
northcyde, Howard isn’t the one. It may require a superstar to win a title but Howard isn’t the one. Not every superstar can win a title.
Steven A
December 30th, 2011
6:09 pm
I would not give up a no 1 draft pick for Howard until maybe 2013. Hawks will need this years pick for
the BEST available PF or SF.
Just Joe
December 30th, 2011
6:17 pm
Joe and Al is better than Noah and Boozer. Chicago does have the Bobcats protected first round pick to sweeten their offer with though. It’s pretty well protected until 2016 though.
I’ll take the defensive potential of Teague, Hinrich, Marvin, Josh & Dwight though. Sign Gilbert Arenas and offer the full MLE to JR Smith.
Steven A
December 30th, 2011
6:18 pm
If Shaq can win a title, Howard can as well. Once Al is traded, Hawks need to bring in Andrei Kirielenko. Josh Smith –Dwight Howard–Andre Kirileneko–Heinrich—Teague. This team
can beat the Bulls, but not the Heat.
jake
December 30th, 2011
6:20 pm
AK-47 is washed up beyond belife.
Steven A
December 30th, 2011
6:23 pm
“Just Joe” 1st guy on this blog that makes real common sense
I’ll take the defensive potential of Teague, Hinrich, Marvin, Josh & Dwight though. Sign Gilbert Arenas and offer the full MLE to JR Smith.
KevinM
December 30th, 2011
6:27 pm
I trade 2 all-stars for one in a NY minute.
What is the least amount of extra salary we would have to take on in that scenario? Would taking on QRich be enough to balance out the salary numbers?
Just Joe
December 30th, 2011
6:28 pm
Difference in Dwight’s team last year and the potential Hawks squad is perimeter defense, a real backup center, and a shot blocking PF by his side.
Steven A
December 30th, 2011
6:34 pm
I think Dwight would work well with Coach Drew. He dislikes Stan Van Gundy. Who likes a boss who is always screaming? Sort of like “BAD MARRIAGE”
northcyde
December 30th, 2011
6:42 pm
Astro . . you are correct in saying that every superstar can’t win a title. Two things are truths though”
- Howard has gotten to an NBA Finals
- The Hawks haven’t gotten out of the 2nd round with The Core
While my proposed trade would be Smith + Horford for Dwight. I’m not against trading Joe + Smith or Horford for Dwight either.
Like I’ve been saying, if the Hawks wouldn’t make a trade like this involving 2 of our stars, they’ll never make a trade. Or if they do make a trade, it’ll be when that player is in a full decline, which will bring back a less talented player.
If the Hawks do this, I liken it to the move the Phoenix Suns made when they traded Marion for Shaq. IN that case though, they simply moved the wrong guy. Marion would’ve been a much better fit alongside Shaq, because Marion didn’t need the ball to be effective. Amare did . . which is why those two had trouble co-existing. Had they traded Amare instead of Marion, the Suns may have won their championship.
But it was a good risk to take regardless, because that team as is was not getting to the NBA Finals. And had the Suns owner not been a cheap azz, and given Amare a max contract, the Suns would still be relevant in the West.
It’s all dependent on what the Hawks want to do. There isn’t going to be a perfect trade we can make. They may have to give up more than they want, to get the player that they want.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 30th, 2011
6:46 pm
The best thing about those numbers is seeing the Hawks in the top 10 in free throw rate. If they are going to get to the line frequently, I don’t even mind them shooting a high percentage of long 2s.
Blast
December 30th, 2011
6:47 pm
After Hawks whooped the Wizards, Wall said:
“They’ve got so much energy,” said Washington’s John Wall. “All they did was attack, attack, attack. They were just making their shots.”
Hawks need to continue thie mode of play.
Blast
December 30th, 2011
6:48 pm
This mode of play.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 30th, 2011
6:49 pm
“My point is that one guyget the praise even though his defense actually showed up in big games, while the other guy is being blamed for losses when his defense is getting shredded.”
One guy had a turnover returned for a TD in each of his playoff losses, while the other guy never did. That makes for a pretty significant difference too.
Make all the excuses you want, but Vick made it to the NFC championship game at the same age that Ryan was a rookie. Ain’t no way around that.
Wabe
December 30th, 2011
6:49 pm
I like northcyde’s deal better than moving JJ. I’m just wondering where the points would come from if we traded Horford and JJ.
You’re talking about trading away the Hawks premier scorers in JJ and Horford. We’d improve substantially defensively, but honestly, we’d be left with what in the backcourt?
Teague, Kirk, Pargo, and Willie Green? If we could possibly get J.Rich out of the deal, it’d look a bit better. It’d be funny to see J.Rich and Zaza end up on the same team after the little fracus they had in the playoffs last season.
Still, I think the goal should be to push us over the top, not just get us a Superstar. Would trading JJ and Horford for Dwight get us over the top? I think we’d be lacking in the backcourt, especially considering your road to get to the NBA Finals goes through Wade/LBJ.
Wabe
December 30th, 2011
6:50 pm
One guy will be sitting at home watching the playoffs…
While the other guy will be playing in them…
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 30th, 2011
6:53 pm
And …
“Difference in Dwight’s team last year and the potential Hawks squad is perimeter defense, a real backup center, and a shot blocking PF by his side.” -just joe-
__________
And … Don’t forget Ivan Johnson, I wonder if he could play the SF position? Possibilities galore … Problem is – do you trust Rick Sund & ASKG brain trust?
Najeh Davenpoop
December 30th, 2011
6:57 pm
“- Howard has gotten to an NBA Finals
- The Hawks haven’t gotten out of the 2nd round with The Core”
More accurately, Howard has gotten to the NBA Finals, whereas the Hawks haven’t gotten out of the 2nd round AT ALL IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THIS FRANCHISE IN THIS CITY.
ryan
December 30th, 2011
7:03 pm
Kind of interesting Horford heading back to Florida and Howard heading home hopefully if this happens could be the biggest trade in Atlanta sports history what a way to kick off 2012 with a bang .