Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 92, Bobcats 75 (exhibition)
- In just five days the games will count for the Hawks. It’s hard to know what conclusions can be drawn from two exhibition games against one of the worst teams in the East. So I guess most of the following analysis comes with that disclaimer.
- Fans responded to Ivan Johnson’s energetic, physical play. So did his teammates. “I was impressed,” Al Horford said. “The thing I like the most about him is he’s aggressive. He goes out there and plays hard. He’s fearless. I think he would be a nice addition to our team.”
- I never would have thought so–Johnson is an undersized, over-aged prospect at a position where the Hawks have up to five guys as options. But Johnson has produced and made the most of his chance, earning a “very close look” from Drew.
- “When we had him in the minicamp the thing that intrigued me was how hard he played,” Drew said. “He is capable of making shots but he’s like a Mack truck in there at times. If you get in his way he will run you over. If there is a loose ball he doesn’t care who’s around him, he’s going after it. We need that on our team. He brings a presence when he’s on the floor, a physicality when he’s on the floor.”
- There were times when the Hawks looked like a bona fide, hard-nosed defensive team. “We really committed to it,” Horford said.
- Atlanta’s defense improved once Jannero Pargo replaced Donald Sloan at point guard. Pargo had more success keeping D.J. Augustin and Kemba Walker out of the lane.
- The Hawks look a lot different when Jeff Teague (ankle) is in the lineup to slow dribble penetration. Teague said he would be ready to go on Tuesday.
- Sloan (three assists, no turnovers) was steadier on offense than he was Monday. “I thought he did a good job stepping in for Jeff Teague in running the club,” Drew said.
- Brad Wanamaker played six ineffective minutes in the second quarter, turning the ball over three times, and then never saw the court again. Pape Sy wasn’t as aggressive as in the first game but played just 10 minutes.
- The Bobcats were able to finish at the rim but that was in spite of Josh Smith and Al Horford challenging everything at the basket (Walker is going to be a good one). Smith and Horford also led an energetic effort when the Hawks trapped.
- Zaza Pachulia was good on D, too. He stays in good position and challenges everything (if only he could jump higher those more of those would be blocked shots). He rebounds and gets to the line. Zaza quietly had a very good camp.
- Smith got what he wanted around the basket. I’m thinking the newly-slim frame and better health means we’ll see more of that this season. He’s so quick to the hole and even more explosive when he gets there.
- Joe Johnson had a bad shooting night (3 for 11) but it looked to me like he often was just working on his one-on-one moves. He had his hesitation game working and got to the line for six free-throw attempts. Joe also had five assists against two turnovers and a couple scrappy steals.
- Tracy McGrady looked a little livelier while getting to the free-throw line early. But Corey Maggette really took it to him at the other end and McGrady had to start fouling. McGrady also didn’t make a shot in three attempts and failed to record an assist in 14 minutes.
- It wasn’t a good camp for T-Mac. The Hawks have to hope he will dial it up when they need him.
- Vladimir Radmonovic (11 points on five shots) has shown a crafty show-and-go game from the 3-point line. He will drive to the basket and then look to pass or draw a foul. A couple of his four turnovers were a result of him zigging while his teammates zagged.
- “It’s going to take some time, especially with this short preseason,” Radmanovic said. “I have to learn some things on the run. I feel pretty comfortable with the system. It’s just a matter of figuring out some spots on the floor where I’m going to be open or make my teammates open.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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200 comments Add your comment
wut
December 23rd, 2011
12:13 pm
I’d rather keep Ivan over Stack and cut Benson if that’s the case.
Truth B. Known
December 23rd, 2011
12:13 pm
Trade Al Horford for DeAndre Jordan
Then you have:
Hinrich/Teague
JJ/IJ
IJ/MW
Josh/Radmanovic
DeAndre Jordan/ Zaza
SteveW
December 23rd, 2011
12:13 pm
Northcyde – Got mine from Lagree at Hoopinion.
And Lagree liked Sy better than Green or Pargo I might add…
kwooden
December 23rd, 2011
12:14 pm
I’m disappointed but not surprised that they waived Pape. Rolle and Wannamaker were pretty obvious cuts because their counterparts out-performed them. Looks like Sloan and Stack are gone also, so it comes down to Ivan vs Benson. We need the length of Benson, but clearly Ivan out played him. I would go with Ivan, just because LD might play him. Go HAWKS!!
Just Joe
December 23rd, 2011
12:15 pm
northcyde…my understanding is that its salaries paid out at the end of the year. so Pargo, who is on a non-guaranteed deal, could still get cut before February, and the Hawks wouldn’t be on the hook for the second half of his contract. not sure if Green’s deal is fully guaranteed or not.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2011
12:16 pm
Vets like Stack, Pargo, and Green cost approx. $854,000.00
Ivan Johnson, Sloan, Benson types cost around $473,000.00
Just Joe
December 23rd, 2011
12:16 pm
Sy could always be re-signed to a 10-day contract, and get similar treatment to what Damien got last year.
Astro Joe
December 23rd, 2011
12:16 pm
And one more thing, Ivan was playing against a lottery-bound team, during a preseason game and against that team’s “audition” players. Take a deep breath before penciling him into the starting line-up for a top 4-5 Eastern Conference club.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2011
12:18 pm
Benson may have some guaranteed money, so I’m sure that will factor in. But we blew $125,000.00 on the Pape Sy experiment, so we may be willing to spend a little (key word “little”) this season.
vava74
December 23rd, 2011
12:19 pm
Astro,
“I find it hard to see where Ivan carves out time over guys like Josh, Marvin, Al, Joe, TMac and Vlad.”
1. With the condensed schedule, all teams will need to deploy more players.
2. Match ups – V-Rad is soft a mistake prone: sometimes you need an enforcer to keep people motivated.
Ivan Johnson is not the second coming of Bass, or Anthony Mason, but he is a tough guy WITH SOME SKILL, which means that every now and then you can bring his body into the game and you can trust him not to dribble the rock on his foot or to shy away from a physical guy like Taj Gibson.
Ivan’s physical characteristics (size, wingspan, jumping ability) make him a fringe NBA player, however, there are situation in which this type of player is essential.
MC said on twitter that the chances that Ivan stays are “slim, since it is not a position of need”.
That’s a load of bull: it’s not the issue of him being a PF and that position is covered, its the fact that we are not 100% covered in one of the most important positions of need: “BASS ASS ENFORCER DOWN LOW”.
The only aggressive guy we have is Zaza and keeping this guy would not hurt us at all. Heck, he even decked Teague with a (legal) pick during the scrimmage.
That’s the type of guy that will keep our guys properly focused on how to feel and behave on the court.
This guy was banned from the Korean BB League!!! That’s the type of guy we desperately need, that is our most weak “position of need”.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 23rd, 2011
12:21 pm
@Hummmmer
Somebody check the IP addresses.
People are complaining about a real center. Spyro says Bucks would never give us one and Leuer for Horford + pick.
Strickland comes in here talking about forests and trees and bragging that Kurt Thomas and Gadzuric took Horford to 7 games, smdh at bringing THAT up. Who was it that said Kurt Thomas punked Horford?
Horford has stopped improving, period. Not a dominant big man. Not a dominant scorer.
If I or Spyro have to choose role players Im going for 1) Leuer starting at the SF who defends 4s 2) Marvin on the bench and 3) Bogut and Smith at the center and PF who defends 3s. PERIOD.
Smith is more of a center protecting our rim than Horford. Its a flipping joke.
@Michael Cunningham What these fans on here need is an interview with Drew asking how he plans the spacing of the big lineups.
Say, who takes Marvin Williams spot on the offense for spacing. Smith or Horford or Jason Collins
Laugh your @ss off indeed. I’ve seen championship teams, this 4 year make the playoffs and bust in the 2nd round experiment is not a contender. Dallas 2011, Smith + Bogut, Garnett + Perkins, hang their hat on defense and easy rebounding.
What do these Hawks hang their hat on? Making the Coach’s all Star bench?
SteveW
December 23rd, 2011
12:23 pm
If you deduct Benson, we’re at about 68.1 m. Out of that, you can keep some combination of:
Pargo – $854,000.00
Green – $854,000.00
Stackhouse – $854,000.00
Ivan Johnson – $473,000.00
Sloan – $473,000.00
Benson – $473,000.00
You’ve got 2.2 million to spend before the Luxury Tax.
Have at it guys.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2011
12:25 pm
Oops 67.6 million – about 2.7 mill. to spend on those 6 guys. Sorry for the typo.
Bruce
December 23rd, 2011
12:25 pm
Great draft picks the past two yrs Hawks. One down & the other won’t make the team either. Why bother drafting these 2nd round guys, hyping them up to the media (this pick has so much upside) and then leaving them on the bench or cutting them. And once again, no 1st round pick this yr. Can you say “take another step down in the playoff seedings or even no playoffs”. In my opionion, the ASG deserves everything they get because of what the did with the Thrashers.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 23rd, 2011
12:26 pm
Hinrich/Teague
JJ/IJ
IJ/MW
Josh/Radmanovic
DeAndre Jordan/ Zaza
What? Isn’t IJ, Ivan Johnson, a PF? And Deandre Jordan for Horford is not going down. Lol that would be a head scratcher.
I can picture Al right now. “My obvious position is the 4 and I think Blake is Okay with the 3. We need help.” lol.
No, you trade Horford for a center and ideally another player who can be a perimeter decoy like Jamal yet defend the 4 position. Smith at the 3 defensively and with the Perimeter 4 he can operate inside offensively.
Bucks can rebuild with Horford and a pick.
wut
December 23rd, 2011
12:26 pm
I’ll take Pargo, Green and Johnson then.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2011
12:27 pm
So we can basically keep all three vets, and that’s it.
Or all 3 rookies and a vet
Or 2 vets and 2 rookies
vava74
December 23rd, 2011
12:28 pm
SteveW,
Then:
Pargo & Green (1.71) + Ivan & Benson (946) = under 2.7 million
Truth B. Known
December 23rd, 2011
12:28 pm
jamillion That was a very long winded dissertation, but no matter how long its still wrong,(unintended assonance).
Al’s pedestrian 12pts 8.8 career numbers and his nonchalant defense is easily replaced and upgraded with out having to get Dwight Howard, (although id love to have him.).
Slimjr has been recommending DeAndre Jordan as a clear upgrade and a true and most of all “WILLING,” center to take the hawks past the second round. This guy is a beast with leaps off the planet. He loves defense and is affordable. Hed be a great fit for the hawks. Of course hes not the only center that can upgrade Horford and is affordable, hes just the one that Slimjr and Blue Steel is recommending and now Im on the same band wagon.
Check this clip and tell me who is the first person he dunks over in the clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p51gvnVSFKc
vava74
December 23rd, 2011
12:30 pm
Why TF are you talking about DeAndre?
He re-signed with the Clippers, is Griffin’s closest friend. That guy will never be traded for anything less than Dwight.
Mike is Back
December 23rd, 2011
12:31 pm
SteveW, thanks for breakdown on the numbers…yeah it seems as though the Hawks are planning something for February.
With the Vets we’ve added…if I had to choose between Ivan and Stack…I would go with Ivan…that’s assuming we keep Benson.
Ivan the Terrible…will find his way on someone roster…if we end up cutting him.
Hmmmm
December 23rd, 2011
12:32 pm
Smith.Leuer.Bogut is an idiot or Horford got with his woman or both.
Truth B. Known
December 23rd, 2011
12:33 pm
Smith.Leuer.Bogut That’s true about Ivan the terrible but at 6′8″ the man can play a little 2,3 and4. He can flat out shoot from either of the positions.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2011
12:34 pm
If we are at 16, I would guess we would keep 2 vets and maybe 2 rookies, unless Sund wanted some wiggle room in the cap for later.
I would keep Green and Pargo as my 2 vets
And Johnson and Benson as the two rookies.
That means i would let Sloan and Stack go.
Hmmmm
December 23rd, 2011
12:35 pm
Dont mind me trolling, id did not want to use my regular ID to throw hate at Smith.Leuer.Bogut
SteveW
December 23rd, 2011
12:35 pm
Vava74 – That is correct
Huh
December 23rd, 2011
12:37 pm
DeAndre for Horford would be an awful trade for LAC. Why would you trade a defensive true center for a 6″9 pf?
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 23rd, 2011
12:37 pm
Benson on an ideal bench should make the team. But not if they want him to start and hype the lanky kid as the compliment to Al’s lack of size.
Hinrich – 12mpg
Al Thornton* -12mpg
MW – 12mpg
Benson – 12mpg
Zaza -18mpg
*is it too late to waive Tracy “Big Mac” McGrady?
If you limit the bench’s minutes you’ll get more energy and production and maximize their limited skills.
Heck I could see T-Mac at the backup PG and 12mpg.
guard: McGrady: 12mpg= 4 ppg
wing: Al Thornton*: 12mpg= 4.5 ppg
wing: MW: 12mpg= 4.5 ppg
PF: Benson: 12mpg= 4.5 ppg
C: Zaza: 18mpg= 6 ppg
78 minutes and 23.5 bench points. What did we have last year?
SteveW
December 23rd, 2011
12:37 pm
But you know, we may stay at 16 until Hinrich comes back, then cut Green and Pargo before Feb. 10th, and still be under the Luxury Tax at the end of the year.
Truth B. Known
December 23rd, 2011
12:37 pm
Vava We are offering ALL STAR AL
who can resist?
LMAO!
Truth B. Known
December 23rd, 2011
12:39 pm
check that we are offering ALLNBA-ALLSTAR ALL, surely the Clippers cant resist!
SteveW
December 23rd, 2011
12:42 pm
But cutting Sy, we only have 1 real wing sub, that can play the 2/3, and that would be TMac. I would say that works in Stackhouse’s favor in keeping him.
That’s the Hawks business. I would still keep Green, Pargo or Sloan, Benson and I Johnson.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 23rd, 2011
12:42 pm
@Truth B. Known was it here that I said Horford had peaked? Or was it realgm where they fought me tooth and nail. Smh.
wordsmithtom
December 23rd, 2011
12:42 pm
Keep Ivan Johnson even if it means building a cage next to the bench. Let him out for a couple minutes a game…..
If nothing else, he’ll make sure Hawk bigs tighten their jocks during practice.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2011
12:44 pm
TMac’s contract is guaranteed, which means we would owe him his salary if waived.
Not the Hawks normal way of doing things. But we did just waste the $125,000.00 on Sy, so you never know.
And wasn’t Sy LD’s project? I wonder if Sy’s waiving bodes ill for Larry Drew?
Truth B. Known
December 23rd, 2011
12:46 pm
I thought All NBA All Star 6′10″ 1/2 (well add the 1/2 inch to make the trade look good) was the best center not named Howard?
DeAndre Jordan is neither. and was drafted way down at # 35 in 2008.
So surely the Clippers can see the value of having a # 3 draft pick with the All NBA / All STAR Al Hoford pedigree as an upgrade….
Right?
ROFLMA!
Truth B. Known
December 23rd, 2011
12:47 pm
Smith.Leuer.Bogut Ive been saying that for 2 years and they tried to crucify me.
jamillion
December 23rd, 2011
12:51 pm
so truth be known are you telling me kaman and dalbert are better players than al?
if we going on position of need or best player?
cause if we going on position you no worse than asg when they could of gotten the position player and best plaer in paul or dwill but settled on marvin cause of potential.
NO ONE IN THIS LEAGUE IS GONNA TELL YOU SAMUEL DALBERT ,OKAFUR,OR KAMAN IS BETTER THAN SOON TO BE THREE TIME ALLSTAR AL
Truth B. Known
December 23rd, 2011
12:52 pm
Smith.Leuer.Bogut I tell you that so you will understand that they will crucify you too for having the balls to say Al has about peaked and is not the center (or power forward, is he better than Josh?)we need to go higher.
Im not surprised at all the hate coming your way. This blog site is AKA “Al Horford’s fan club” so watch what you say.
Truth B. Known
December 23rd, 2011
1:00 pm
jamillion Im not sure I get the full explanation of your last post, but this much I got and agree with you, Kaman and Dalbert are not much if any of an up grade on Al. Okafur, is but not by much. Not worth making the swap.
As for your player choices theories and strategies. I’m not tracking you. You might want to brake that down a little more.
Just a question…If ALL NBA ALL STAR AL is ALL that, shouldn’t the clippers be willing to part with DeAndre Jordan, who is neither an All nba or all star?
In fact shouldn’t we be able to get a real franchise type player for this super star super man Al with the 12pts 8.8 career numbers?
I’m just saying… lets put it in perspective.
Huh
December 23rd, 2011
1:02 pm
“Im not surprised at all the hate coming your way. This blog site is AKA “Al Horford’s fan club” so watch what you say.”
This guy says that Horford sucks, then with a straight face he thinks the Clippers would trade DeAndre for Al.
LOL
Truth B. Known
December 23rd, 2011
1:04 pm
12pts 8.8 rbs career numbers
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 23rd, 2011
1:09 pm
Al Horford brainwashing
———-
“Boy if only we had Joakim Noah or Dwight or Bogut down low. They would be a great rebounding and passing team and Horford has a great mid range spot up shot.”
Reality: YOU DONT HAVE THOSE GUYS. YOU HAVE 6′8 JOSH SMITH playing down low and blocking shots. Marvin is terrible. AND the HAWKS SUCK.
No one hangs their hat on defensively erasing mistakes except Josh. Well guess what he’s too small and he cant shoot on offense. Yet your alternative is Marvin or Iso Al.
you Get the big center (via Bogut), you get the big shooter (via Leuer). You get a big SF (via Smith), you get the big bench (via Marvin) and flexible contracts.
Give Bucks TWO 2nd rounders or a protected first along with Horford I dont care. Just get it done.
Horford and Smith are flawed enough duo without adding Marvin. ANd a center just moves Smith to the perimeter.
This experiment is over. Young athletic Big versatile Perimeter + Big Center. Horford and picks.
Make the playoffs healthy and bust your @ss on defense. ATL Get it done.
Ken Strickland
December 23rd, 2011
1:09 pm
TRUTH B. KNOWN-I’d much rather have a foot in mouth than a head up ass, like you. At least my foot in mouth doesn’t prevent me from comprehending the fact that AHorford is a hell of a lot closer to getting the Hawks past the 2nd rd than Bogat is to getting his Bucks past the 1st rd, or even into the playoffs for that matter.
It kind of puts into perspective the low basketball IQs, and to some extent, the intelligence, of anyone who would be so critical of a player, who’s a recent 2 time Allstar, an All NBA selection, and one of the NBAs best centers, just because he’s not perfect. Oh well, STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES!!
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 23rd, 2011
1:12 pm
did Truth B. Known say that Al outright “sucks”? If he did I completely disagree there.
But if he says that without superstars, down low or on the perimeter, to make plays for him, Al Horford will always come up short I agree.
doc
December 23rd, 2011
1:14 pm
ken s love it. you are always so smooth. did you raise josh?
Mike
December 23rd, 2011
1:18 pm
Well, Truth is.
I am thinking that Al might need to be traded from here, I dont see use doing any damage in the playoff as we are right now, plus we might get something very good for him. Sorry. Bucks wont trade Bogut and Leuer, so let think of other teams that is willing to trade for him.
For Gearon and any of the ASG, please read this. I know that yall harper on the fans and media for no support of this team but the question is, are yall doing the things to bring a championship here, yall is too scared of the Tax to make a moves and the core needs to be major shake up, not minor. So when DASG (whatever yall call yourself anyway) is willing to go to that actual mile then the fans will do the same.
Truth B. Known
December 23rd, 2011
1:24 pm
Ken, if you ever get your foot out of your mouth,
Just a question…If ALL NBA ALL STAR AL is ALL that, shouldn’t the clippers be willing to part with DeAndre Jordan, who is neither an All nba or all star?
In fact shouldn’t we be able to get a real franchise type player for this super star super man Al with the 12pts 8.8 rbs career numbers?
I’m just saying… lets put it in perspective.
Ken you’ve figured out that stupid is as stupid does, congrats. Forrest Gump taught you that. That should help you change your thinking. Try that first then, try to get your foot out of your mouth. Because if you get your foot out first and continue your stupidity your foot will end up right back in your mouth. – Go figure.
Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 23rd, 2011
1:27 pm
I’d much rather have a foot in mouth than a head up ass, like you. At least my foot in mouth doesn’t prevent me from comprehending the fact that AHorford is a hell of a lot closer to getting the Hawks past the 2nd rd than Bogat is to getting his Bucks past the 1st rd, or even into the playoffs for that matter.
=========
AHorford is a hell of a lot closer to getting Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Jeff Teague, Jamal Crawford than Bogut is to getting
Magetti, Jon Brockman, Brandon Jennings, Keyon Dooling etc… Really what does that argument say about you Kenny?
Michael Cunningham
December 23rd, 2011
1:29 pm
new blog is posted. shutting down this thread.