Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 13
Soon after their game against Charlotte tomorrow night, the Hawks will trim the roster down from 18 to no more than 13 (the deadline is Saturday). They have 10 guaranteed contracts and you figure Jannero Pargo is safe. That leaves seven players with contracts that are not fully guaranteed vying for no fewer than two spots and no more than five (16 is the max roster size): Keith Benson, Ivan Johnson, Magnum Rolle, Jerry Stackhouse, Pape Sy, Donald Sloan and Brad Wanamaker.
Here is the depth chart with only the guaranteed guys plus Pargo included (and not including Kirk Hinrich):
PG: Jeff Teague/Pargo
SG: Joe Johnson
SF: Marvin Williams/Tracy McGrady
PF: Josh Smith/Vladimir Radmanovic
C: Al Horford/Zaza Pachulia/Jason Collins
What do the Hawks need most? The answer would seem to be a another guard because both Larry Drew and T-Mac have said McGrady has spent most of his time at small forward. But each time I ask Drew about the backups at positions two through four, he mentions the “versatility” of the roster.
“We’ve got some flexibility,” he said.
In practice, that’s going to mean Vlad sees time at SF and PF, Joe swings from SG to SF (or PG), Josh will be at SF or PF, Al will play C and PF, and T-Mac is at SF and SG (and PG). Drew will have to do lots of creative mixing-and-matching with his lineups, which could be a strength as long as everyone is healthy and effective but becomes problematic if any of the bench guys is unavailable/injured/ineffective/in foul trouble.
That’s where the cuts come in. At some point the Hawks are going to have to play some of the guys they keep. Benson, Rolle, Wanamaker and Sloan probably could use some time in the D-League but can the Hawks afford to send guys down with this breakneck schedule?
Can they really carry just 13 guys, for that matter? I’m imagining there will be days when Drew won’t know if certain guys can go until shootaround or pregame, not to mention scenarios in which he sends a guy out and discovers he just doesn’t have it that night. Won’t he need extra bodies available?
Do the Hawks keep Stackhouse, the only proven NBA player of the lot and a tough-minded vet? Even after adding Pargo, do the Hawks need to keep one of Wanamaker, Sloan or Sy at least until Hinrich returns?
Do they keep Rolle since Vlad is better suited for the three and he can fill in behind Smoove when size is needed (and also can be the third center on those nights when Collins is not a good option)? Is Ivan Johnson a guy they keep because, those he’s a bit undersized and 27-years old, he provides the energy and grit that could provide a spark for a tired team? Would they dare take the hit of releasing either Benson, whom they declared a long-term project when they drafted him, or Sy, whom they bought out of his French league contract last year?
Also, will money influence these decisions? Sy and Rolle count the same for team salary purposes, while Stackhouse costs a bit more. The rookies are the cheapest options by about $300,000.
I’m guessing the Hawks still aren’t sure about some of these issues and tomorrow’s game will factor into a few of them.
“We’re just in a situation where we have to make some decisions as far as who we are going to keep,” Drew said. “We are using these preseason games so they can get in these games and show us what they can do.”
If you are looking for clues, Drew offered a brief assessment of the youngsters in the first game:
- Sloan “played really well the first half getting us organized and running the point guard position.”
- Ivan Johnson “was really an animal in the first half. He came in and picked up the intensity in the first half. And that’s who he is. He is a high-energy guy. He plays with a physicality.”
- Benson “had some blocked shots.”
- Rolle “played OK.”
- Wanamaker “came in and did a sufficient job.”
“We will look at them again tomorrow night,” Drew said. “I am sure they all want to play better.”
Camp report
- Drew said Teague “turned [his ankle] a little bit” and left practice today. “We’re not sure of the severity right now,” Drew said. Teague is questionable to play tomorrow which, under the circumstances, means he’s unlikely to go.
- Drew acknowledged that McGrady has appeared passive at times but said he’s not concerned: “I think he is just trying to get acclimated to what we do and the pace at which we play. And then him trying to get his rhythm to what we do. We will keep putting him in situations wehre he is most effective. The one thing I will say about him because he is such a willing passer, he doesn’t force a lot of things. We may at times look at some of the things that he does as not very aggressive but a lot of times he makes the simple play and the open man gets the ball. But he will get his rhythm and get his timing and we will keep putting him in situations where he does that until he gets up to speed.”
- Stackhouse got the best defensive grade among the guards in Monday’s game. Stack played in just seven games last season so it’s going to take him time to round into form. “I think neither he nor Tracy have their legs under them yet,” Drew said. “He didn’t play last year, so being off a year you just don’t get your legs back right away, I don’t care how much you have been working out in the summer. It takes going through a real training camp, the bumping and the grinding. I don’t think either guy has their legs under them yet but I can see that it’s coming.”
- By all accounts, Stack has been good in the leadership role that the Hawks feel this group really needs. The captains have responded to him. “We need guys that have had that type of experience and come into a locker room with a group of young guys and tell them what it takes to be a real pro,” Drew said. “How to endure a season and for a team that’s talented, the price that you have to pay, the commitment that you have to make.”
- Drew said he plans to play the regulars more tomorrow.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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262 comments Add your comment
ComeOn
December 22nd, 2011
3:50 pm
Kobe can shoot jumpers better left handed than Josh can
SteveW
December 22nd, 2011
3:55 pm
Here is Willie’s brief description from SbNation (a fantasy site, but give some good info many times):
Assets
Shows nice instincts as a scorer and can a team as a scorer when he’s hot. Takes care of the ball and can handle it well enough to play a little point guard.
Flaws
Undersized for the 2-spot, presenting defensive challenges. Takes a lot of outside shots despite lacking great accuracy from the perimeter. Streaky, and somewhat injury-prone.
Career Potential
Average depth shooting guard.
Here’s the scouting report for Jannero Pargo:
Assets
Brings a nice mix of mid-range scoring and distributing. Both fast & quick, has a good handle, and excels at taking his man off the dribble. Doesn’t turn the ball over much. Can be clutch under pressure.
Flaws
Very streaky and will sometimes miss routine shots. Too often launches ill-advised perimeter attempts rather than penetrating & dishing. Not a pass-first point guard & small for an NBA 2-guard. Not an intense defender.
Career Potential
Streaky but talented veteran combo guard.
Carrlos Lyles
December 22nd, 2011
4:02 pm
fans relax ill be the hawks PG in a couple of months: this was me last year..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hSa3kL5Ig4&feature=channel_video_title
i kno i know im perfect for the hawks.. Im doing it for the city..
SteveW
December 22nd, 2011
4:10 pm
Our depth is really starting to get there. I was a little concerned about Pargo, since the Bulls released him ahead of Lucas.
A backcourt of Teague, Green, Pargo, and JJ is serviceable until Hinrich returns. Then it’s what I would call a quality 4 deep rotational BC. Not many better 4 deep backcourts around.
Marvin and Tracy should be fine at the 3
And other than the fact I think VladRad is better than Josh Powell, I’m still not sold on him. But our Front court is solid if not very big.
I mean Josh Powell’s player ranking on ESPN was #365. VladRad’s was #315
Pargo’s was #345. Willie Green’s was #276. Tracy McGrady at #178.
We’ve definitely improved our bench
And yes I know you can’t go by the player rankings – they are just ball park figures.
Buddy Grizzard
December 22nd, 2011
4:14 pm
Big Ray that was in ref to doc at 10:25 am, responding to superiorblogtroll.
Rufus1
December 22nd, 2011
4:16 pm
Great article about John Hollingers predictions over the past 3 years…
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2011/12/22/2654437/2011-nba-preview-espn-hollinger-atlanta-hawks-gee-im-not-feeling-these-hawks-again#storyjump
HE GETS PAID FOR THIS….
Buddy Grizzard
December 22nd, 2011
4:18 pm
Brook Lopez breaking his foot makes Dwight to NJ impossible. Poor Deron… and poor Prokhorov when Deron signs elsewhere next year.
doc
December 22nd, 2011
4:18 pm
rev, that is a little radical treatment. probably anti-inflammatories, support with an orthotic, stretching and strengthening and some things like ultra sound and lasers to promote blood flow, i prefer heat over ice especially for tendon/ligamentous tissue that is already tight but in todays “ice it” world they tend to think ice, which in my area it is considered a no no.. rest would help, too.
yoursporthouse the website
December 22nd, 2011
4:19 pm
Marvin is a bum!!
Rod from College Park
December 22nd, 2011
4:23 pm
vava74,
“Do you mean the form that has resulted in a career average FROM THE FIELD of .388????”
No, I mean the form that had him averaging 10ppg, 2.3 assist, 1 steal, and 2.5 rpg, all while backing up Chris Paul in the 08-09 playoffs. Also while coming to Phillips Arena and dropping 22 on the Hawks. This was all before having a knee injury that caused him a lot of problems, and he had problems after surgery on it.
Article from the Hornets paper 2008-2009:
“Pargo was let go by the Hornets, according to a tweet from Art Garcia of NBA.com.
Jannero Pargo released by Hornets. Demps: “He is not operating at full speed due to a pre-existing injury.”
Pargo was unimpressive with the Bulls last season. We’ll see if he can latch on anywhere else, espeically after that send off from GM Del Demps.
This means Willie Green will get the backup job to CP3. What that means for Hornets fans is they should run to a local church and light a candle in prayer that Paul does not get hurt.”
If you can read and understand what the article was saying, it was that Pargo was a good backup to Paul, but that his knee was keeping him from staying on the team. Since he could not be the backup, Willie Green was next in line, and they were praying that Paul did not get hurt, because Willie Green was not that good. Comprende?
doc
December 22nd, 2011
4:37 pm
griz, wasnt sure the point even now but i ithink i will drop it.
doc
December 22nd, 2011
4:41 pm
since we play the nets 3 games in the first ten, that break is in our favor.
Slimjr
December 22nd, 2011
4:46 pm
“Drew said Teague “turned [his ankle] a little bit” and left practice today. “We’re not sure of the severity right now,” Drew said. Teague is questionable to play tomorrow which, under the circumstances, means he’s unlikely to go. ”
Shoot, I hope this aint Acie Law all over again?
C’mon LD, don’t screw this dud up like Woody did Acie…
That can become a problem. It seems like you roll it and then it happens again or you roll the other one.. It’s nuts!!! Those who have played the game know what I am talking about……Sheesh…..
KevinM
December 22nd, 2011
5:03 pm
Why wasn’t Green brought in sooner if this was a guy at the top of Sund’s board? Does Sund have a board? Is he watching old film from his ‘heyday’?
I hope he can help a unit that will be in need of scoring, and I guess no training camp doesn’t factor here.
Another guy who we arent having to bid for…..Sund has developed a pattern here.
SteveW
December 22nd, 2011
5:04 pm
Didn’t Teague roll his ankle before training camp last year also? And was it his ankle the last game of the Chicago series? Can’t remember. If so, this just reinforces my theory about Teague – a real good 30 mpg kinda guy – but not the 35-38 mpg baseline to baseline defender/attacker LD wants.
But Drew sure didn’t seem to mind Bibby not picking up the ball baseline to baseline. Or Jamal for that matter.
I sure hope Teague just didn’t get pipped. And with Chicago keeping Lucas over Pargo, you have to think Pargo is still not back to anywhere close to his old form.
SteveW
December 22nd, 2011
5:08 pm
Rod – Philly seemed very concerned about Willie also judging by an article I was reading about them and signing FA’s. They wanted to stay away from Willie Green – didn’t really like him.
But he’s good for what we need, and the money ASG is willing to spend.
I just got alot more excited about this team with the signing of Willie Green, and even a little about Pargo. I thought we were going into the season with Wanamaker and/or Sloan as the backup PG. Not good.
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
5:14 pm
http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXpXXpargoja01.html&t=1
Rod,
Pargo’s career FG% was already below .400 before the injury.
One good playoff run and one newspaper article can’t change that.
You seem to have a fall for out of control low bball IQ talent.
What you neglect to mention is that Green is a SG hence a theoretically worse replacement/sub for a PG but that is mostly true on a PG centered offense like NOH’s, which is not our case at all.
For me, as a stop gap solution and on our offense Green seems more viable.
ryan
December 22nd, 2011
5:14 pm
Sund bringing all Seattle guys i wonder if Stromile Swift is available.
SteveW
December 22nd, 2011
5:21 pm
About the Clips – Reggie Evans was a great signing for them – they had no frontcourt depth. If Ajinca’s not signed, they need him also.
Good to see UGA’s Trey Thompkins getting some burn for the Clips. Looks good. But he’s a high ankle sprain waiting to happen. Hope he’s over that.
Chesterfield King
December 22nd, 2011
5:21 pm
stretch
andy bedrins is inured proned.
KevinM
December 22nd, 2011
5:25 pm
Robert Swift is on the phone now….another Sund talent.
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
5:26 pm
Rev in Tampa
December 22nd, 2011
1:48 pm
Rev, OB said it well: Jamal was costing us 10 million and before he came down to Earth this off-season, he thought that he was still worth that (he never was in the first place).
And, as OB said, Jamal does excite poor coaches into overusing him.
IF I was the Hawks GM and HC, I would have no problem in keeping him for 4/5 million per, for an extra 2 years BUT you can bet your behind that he would not average more than 15/20 minutes per game AND would never play PG.
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
5:35 pm
anyone has any idea on where we can find a live feed for tonight’s game?
Rod from College Park
December 22nd, 2011
5:43 pm
vava74,
What you need to do is stop looking at stats all the time and watch games. It similar to your dislike for Horford now. When you tell someone outside of Atlanta some of Horford’s weaknesses which we all have seen you post, they will say Horford is an all star, and his stats look good. If you watch games or played the game at a high level, which you did not, you can sometimes see past stats. Marvin’s stats don’t look bad, but he is a bad basketball player. Again before his injury, Pargo was becoming very good, and then he injured his knee. Pargo when healthy was a very good backup point guard, who had the ability to play some two. He was a very good ball handler, low turnover rate, and could knock down open shots (the ones that Marvin misses). He was also a very good player at Arkansas. Willie Green is a totally different player. Not a good backup point, but very scrappy. If you think Pargo, Jamal Crawford, TMac are all out of control low bball IQ talents, but Willie Green is above average, then we really don’t need to debate at all.
hawksfancents95
December 22nd, 2011
5:44 pm
PG: Jeff Teague/Pargo
SG: Joe Johnson
SF: Marvin Williams/Tracy McGrady
PF: Josh Smith/Vladimir Radmanovic
C: Al Horford/Zaza Pachulia/Jason Collins
with hinrich thats 11 players
i think the hawks keep keith benson,jerry stackhouse,magnum rolle,pape sy
i think the hawks will keep 14 or 15, i would think we’d keep sy after buying him out of france, stackhouse if hes healthy and fitting in well as a true pro/leader like mc mentioned, keith if we see potential, magnum if he has an offensive game of any sort. if we keep less than 15 id think we’d cut magnum out of the aforementioned group.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
December 22nd, 2011
5:49 pm
“andy bedrins is inured proned.”
God knows we don’t need a player who is proned (sic) to be inured.
We need players who are already inured.
Slimjr
December 22nd, 2011
5:52 pm
Good to see Gerald Green back in the NBA…Must found a piece of humble pie?
@6′7″ with a 60″ vert and 3pt range I just knew this dude was a shoe in and potential Allstar some day. But guess that 2008 Dunk contest win went to his big head?
Here ya go
December 22nd, 2011
5:57 pm
It appears that Horford is being shopped for a center who is a full timer at the position. The talk is either Bynum or Gasol for Al…
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-spears_andrew_bynum_pau_gasol_122211
Ken Strickland
December 22nd, 2011
5:59 pm
Teague has 5 more days to recover from his ankle sprain. I hope that’s enough time .At any rate, I’m pretty certain he’ll be fully recovered before we enter that torrid stretch where we play the Bulls and Heat twice each in 6gms. Last yr Teague was suppose to get an honest chance to unseat Bibby as our starting PG, but he suffered a simular injury, and he was having a much better camp than Bibby. We still managed to get off to a pretty good start with Bibby. Overall, I think whoever replaces Teague as our starting PG will be able to do as well as Bibby.
Teague’s DEF, speed, and quickness, makes us a better team overall, but not having him doesn’t mean we’ll fall apart. Remember, the MOTION OFF that we run is PG friendly, and we have JJ to make it even easier for Teagues replacement.
Sautee
December 22nd, 2011
6:01 pm
Odd how the link given said NOTHING about Horford. Not one word.
Now who would do THAT on this blog?
Shout out again, T-S
! 2 ~
December 22nd, 2011
6:06 pm
Rod from College Park I hate to disagree with you but Horford cant get voted on the All Star team. You cant fool the fans. If you live out side of Ga like I do, We think the guy is about the weakest defender at the position. Word has it that he doesn’t even like playing the position.
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
6:06 pm
Rod,
You are amazing!!!
“Again before his injury, Pargo was becoming very good, and then he injured his knee.”
We are talking about a guy who – for his career was shooting below .400 (BELOW POINT FOUR HUNDRED) and was “becoming very good” at the age of 28 (TWENTY EIGHT).
I am repeating the stats in words since you seem to have a huge problem dealing with numbers.
ummm…
And this same guy – averaging below .400 (BELOW POINT FOUR HUNDRED) from the field – “…could knock down open shots (the ones that Marvin misses)” – The same Marvin who is aged 25 (TWENTY FIVE) this year – that averages .452 (POINT FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY TWO*) from the field – and that will never “become a good basketball player”.
* Note: .452 is better than .388 and Marvin also has been injured but it seems that injuries are only good excuses for guys you like…
With this I am not saying that Marvin is good, only that Pargo clearly ISN’T and NEVER WAS GOOD.
He is a talented guy who does not know what the expression “shot selection” means. More or less the same way that you seem to ignore that .388 from the field is WORSE than .452.
Orlando Cepeda
December 22nd, 2011
6:08 pm
Al Horford Trade Rumors and Injury Update | #15 – SportsOverdose
Rubbing Alcohol
December 22nd, 2011
6:14 pm
I wish yall would stop with the Al Hoford trade rumors. Al aint going anywhere. If ever one else would guard their man we would not have to worry whether Al is guarding his!
Hawks have no TV game?
December 22nd, 2011
6:15 pm
Does anyone know which channel the hawks game is going to be on?
Ken Strickland
December 22nd, 2011
6:15 pm
How did you come up with this Horford being shopped around based on that article? I didn’t see a single mention of Horford, nor any rumored trade of or for him.
Sautee
December 22nd, 2011
6:17 pm
LOL @ whomever is SO DESPERATELY trying to push Horford trade rumors.
Best of luck with that.
Sautee
December 22nd, 2011
6:19 pm
“Does anyone know which channel the hawks game is going to be on?”
There’s this thing on the AJC sports page called TV Listings. Just FYI.
hawksfancents95
December 22nd, 2011
6:20 pm
as for the christmas day schedule, i think we need to soak in how awesome the lineup is
BOS at NYK- i think melo amare tyson is a tough combo of athleticism and size, i wana see if rondo improved his shot and how kg/ray/pp34 look, i think nyk will win by a couple in a lower scoring game
MIA at DAL- mia is going to beat dal by double digits, dirk will be a bit* off, d3- bron- bosh will be great this year and take out all their offseason bitterness out on dal
CHI at LAL- drose could repeat as mvp and the addition of rip will make chi run with even more firepower offensively, kobe will play he wouldnt miss playing on xmas in front of all nba fans, LA wins in dramatic fashion
ORL at OKC- kd35 will win MVP this season and they will beat ORL impressively,i smell d12 vs perkins scuffle at some point, orl is in purgatory until dwight gets signed/moved
LAC at GSW- the game i look most forward to on the day. cp3 BG deandre will be puttin on dunk clinics every court they play on, im also interested in seeing marc jackson on the sidelines, monta will be getting to the hole around and over the clipps but LAC wins by 5-8
Chesterfield King
December 22nd, 2011
6:25 pm
thomas robinson is the best playor in the country colleges are pros.
he will be good with jimmr and cousens then we sihn johh smith when he leave atlanta.
Chesterfield King
December 22nd, 2011
6:28 pm
when truth was in caly he would tell it like it is out herw to.
Ken Strickland
December 22nd, 2011
6:29 pm
Looks like the Nets Brooks Lopez has broken his foot. That will definitely curtail any trade talks for DHoward, and make them an average team at best.
Ken Strickland
December 22nd, 2011
6:30 pm
SAUTEE-The gm will be on SPORT SOUTH.
KevinM
December 22nd, 2011
6:33 pm
Game on DirecTV tonight from what my listing says….Channel 650…pregame at 7
doc
December 22nd, 2011
6:37 pm
no local station was listed on the hawks schedule page.
I MUST WRITE
December 22nd, 2011
6:38 pm
http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/06/21/al-horford-for-superman-should-the-hawks-make-that-offer/
doc
December 22nd, 2011
6:40 pm
yeah sautee, noticed that too. how about marvin and al for barnes and gasol, might work salary wise. heh heh
speaking of trades, did gdad really deep six his team and the blog?
i_am_soulstar
December 22nd, 2011
6:43 pm
MC on Twitter says Sloan is starting tonight
Ra'mon
December 22nd, 2011
6:49 pm
Ken S, the Hawks could getaway with Bogans guarding a PG, with Joe bringing the ball up court (or Tracy) while Teague is injured. Bogans would give the Hawks four excellent back court defenders (Teague, Joe, Kirk, Bogans). Could you imagine Kirk, Bogans, and Zaza hustling on the second unit together?
Sautee
December 22nd, 2011
6:51 pm
doc,
grandad is just on a temporary hiatus. He’ll check in every now and then, but for now he’s so fed up with ASKG and Sund that he can’t handle a day to day dosage.