Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 13
Soon after their game against Charlotte tomorrow night, the Hawks will trim the roster down from 18 to no more than 13 (the deadline is Saturday). They have 10 guaranteed contracts and you figure Jannero Pargo is safe. That leaves seven players with contracts that are not fully guaranteed vying for no fewer than two spots and no more than five (16 is the max roster size): Keith Benson, Ivan Johnson, Magnum Rolle, Jerry Stackhouse, Pape Sy, Donald Sloan and Brad Wanamaker.
Here is the depth chart with only the guaranteed guys plus Pargo included (and not including Kirk Hinrich):
PG: Jeff Teague/Pargo
SG: Joe Johnson
SF: Marvin Williams/Tracy McGrady
PF: Josh Smith/Vladimir Radmanovic
C: Al Horford/Zaza Pachulia/Jason Collins
What do the Hawks need most? The answer would seem to be a another guard because both Larry Drew and T-Mac have said McGrady has spent most of his time at small forward. But each time I ask Drew about the backups at positions two through four, he mentions the “versatility” of the roster.
“We’ve got some flexibility,” he said.
In practice, that’s going to mean Vlad sees time at SF and PF, Joe swings from SG to SF (or PG), Josh will be at SF or PF, Al will play C and PF, and T-Mac is at SF and SG (and PG). Drew will have to do lots of creative mixing-and-matching with his lineups, which could be a strength as long as everyone is healthy and effective but becomes problematic if any of the bench guys is unavailable/injured/ineffective/in foul trouble.
That’s where the cuts come in. At some point the Hawks are going to have to play some of the guys they keep. Benson, Rolle, Wanamaker and Sloan probably could use some time in the D-League but can the Hawks afford to send guys down with this breakneck schedule?
Can they really carry just 13 guys, for that matter? I’m imagining there will be days when Drew won’t know if certain guys can go until shootaround or pregame, not to mention scenarios in which he sends a guy out and discovers he just doesn’t have it that night. Won’t he need extra bodies available?
Do the Hawks keep Stackhouse, the only proven NBA player of the lot and a tough-minded vet? Even after adding Pargo, do the Hawks need to keep one of Wanamaker, Sloan or Sy at least until Hinrich returns?
Do they keep Rolle since Vlad is better suited for the three and he can fill in behind Smoove when size is needed (and also can be the third center on those nights when Collins is not a good option)? Is Ivan Johnson a guy they keep because, those he’s a bit undersized and 27-years old, he provides the energy and grit that could provide a spark for a tired team? Would they dare take the hit of releasing either Benson, whom they declared a long-term project when they drafted him, or Sy, whom they bought out of his French league contract last year?
Also, will money influence these decisions? Sy and Rolle count the same for team salary purposes, while Stackhouse costs a bit more. The rookies are the cheapest options by about $300,000.
I’m guessing the Hawks still aren’t sure about some of these issues and tomorrow’s game will factor into a few of them.
“We’re just in a situation where we have to make some decisions as far as who we are going to keep,” Drew said. “We are using these preseason games so they can get in these games and show us what they can do.”
If you are looking for clues, Drew offered a brief assessment of the youngsters in the first game:
- Sloan “played really well the first half getting us organized and running the point guard position.”
- Ivan Johnson “was really an animal in the first half. He came in and picked up the intensity in the first half. And that’s who he is. He is a high-energy guy. He plays with a physicality.”
- Benson “had some blocked shots.”
- Rolle “played OK.”
- Wanamaker “came in and did a sufficient job.”
“We will look at them again tomorrow night,” Drew said. “I am sure they all want to play better.”
Camp report
- Drew said Teague “turned [his ankle] a little bit” and left practice today. “We’re not sure of the severity right now,” Drew said. Teague is questionable to play tomorrow which, under the circumstances, means he’s unlikely to go.
- Drew acknowledged that McGrady has appeared passive at times but said he’s not concerned: “I think he is just trying to get acclimated to what we do and the pace at which we play. And then him trying to get his rhythm to what we do. We will keep putting him in situations wehre he is most effective. The one thing I will say about him because he is such a willing passer, he doesn’t force a lot of things. We may at times look at some of the things that he does as not very aggressive but a lot of times he makes the simple play and the open man gets the ball. But he will get his rhythm and get his timing and we will keep putting him in situations where he does that until he gets up to speed.”
- Stackhouse got the best defensive grade among the guards in Monday’s game. Stack played in just seven games last season so it’s going to take him time to round into form. “I think neither he nor Tracy have their legs under them yet,” Drew said. “He didn’t play last year, so being off a year you just don’t get your legs back right away, I don’t care how much you have been working out in the summer. It takes going through a real training camp, the bumping and the grinding. I don’t think either guy has their legs under them yet but I can see that it’s coming.”
- By all accounts, Stack has been good in the leadership role that the Hawks feel this group really needs. The captains have responded to him. “We need guys that have had that type of experience and come into a locker room with a group of young guys and tell them what it takes to be a real pro,” Drew said. “How to endure a season and for a team that’s talented, the price that you have to pay, the commitment that you have to make.”
- Drew said he plans to play the regulars more tomorrow.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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262 comments Add your comment
ComeOn
December 22nd, 2011
1:27 pm
““and he and Smoove are tight.”
And that is EXACTLY why Reggie Evens was not signed.”
Pretty sure Josh Powell was on our team last year and he knows Smoove well.
Next?
ComeOn
December 22nd, 2011
1:28 pm
Good signings by Sund, but definitely not enough to compete vs. Chicago or Miami right now.
O'Brien
December 22nd, 2011
1:29 pm
Sund was GM of the Sonics when they drafted Willie Green, and the GM when they drafted Radmanovich. With the Sonics, he also wanted Kirk Hinrich, but it never worked out.
When Sund likes you…Sund likes you
mykhalc
December 22nd, 2011
1:30 pm
how can you not be excited???!!! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
doc
December 22nd, 2011
1:31 pm
nice stuff sb and ahead of the ball on green
dont know much about green’s game but here are his numbers:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3744
seems he is the backup to jj, with pargo at point? things seem to be rounding into form here the last two days. i was real uncomfortable with only youth at back up key positions. only wish we had gotten the big from okc that cats got.
doc
December 22nd, 2011
1:33 pm
yeah vava, wondering if he is a flip the switch or flip on roids jc1? heh heh
doc
December 22nd, 2011
1:34 pm
if this is flip2, then astro very happy.
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
1:38 pm
I love this signing,
He has that small bulldozer mentality that I like in some undersized SG.
Great attitude, bulky build. Very happy
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
1:40 pm
look at his TO’s.
very low numbers for a good scorer.
I don’t remember, but I assume that his D is suspect, but he is the instant offense at discount price which we needed.
I don’t think Pargo fits our needs anymore with this signing. Pargo has horrible shot selection and is not much of a playmaker.
ryan
December 22nd, 2011
1:42 pm
I have to say Hawks are building a nice bench this signing adds some good depth still need a center .
superiorblogman
December 22nd, 2011
1:47 pm
Jeff/Kirk
Joe/Willie Green/Sy
Marvin/T-Mac
Josh/Benson/Rolle
Al/Zaza/Collins
That’s most likely your team when Kirk comes back.
I can deal with that,but it is not ideal. It just gives them reasons not to move Kirk’s expiring for cheaper or better assets.
Rev in Tampa
December 22nd, 2011
1:48 pm
Vava – “I don’t remember, but I assume that his D is suspect, but he is the instant offense at discount price which we needed.”
Has someone jacked your blog name? You are positive toward Green, but this is the very thing that so incensed toward Jamal.
I’m not being critical of your comments toward Jamal – just surprised. I completely agree that Jamal had to go because of his lack of perimeter defense.
Rev in Tampa
December 22nd, 2011
1:49 pm
^^ ’so incensed YOU toward Jamal’
SteveW
December 22nd, 2011
1:53 pm
LD’s world, unless he’s changed:
PG – Green/Pargo/Jeff
SG – JJ/Stack
SF – Marvin/TMac
And no Benson or Rolle up front. I sincerely hope I’m wrong – but it looks like Teague for Jason Thompson time again, if the Kings are still interested. Glad Sund wouldn’t do that last year.
O'Brien
December 22nd, 2011
1:53 pm
Rev,
To be fair, vava’s issue with Jamal was 1) His price tag and 2) LD would overuse him (and play him major minutes at PG).
doc
December 22nd, 2011
1:53 pm
pargo still needs to be kept for insurance until kirk back, no? until i see kirk moving his arm freely then i dont count him as a part of this team. depending on where we are in the standings when he is ready determines whether he stays or maybe is traded.
O'Brien
December 22nd, 2011
1:54 pm
So our backcourt players are now (in no particular order):
PG – Teague/Pargo/Sloan OR Wannamaker
SG – JJ/T-Mac (maybe he plays some SF)/Pape Sy/Green.
Not bad. I would have liked someone like Reggie Evans in the front court though.
SteveW
December 22nd, 2011
1:55 pm
IF LD has any sense, it should be:
Jeff/Pargo, then Hinrich when healthy
JJ/Green/Sy
Marvin/TMac in the small lineup
And you keep at least two out of Benson, Rolle, and Ivan
IF ASG has the money – let them keep Stackhouse also
doc
December 22nd, 2011
1:55 pm
stack might be the one to go with another vet on the bench as a sg.
SteveW
December 22nd, 2011
1:56 pm
Poor Jeff is toast…
Again, I hope I’m wrong. I was right way to much on LD and Teague last year.
doc
December 22nd, 2011
1:57 pm
yeah steve w we agree on the makeup of guards and sf’s. seems josh better bulk back up and al better man up. jj can still go to 3 spot.
Melvin
December 22nd, 2011
1:58 pm
Vava,
It didn’t take you long to get rid Pargo. LOL, and he was suppose to be the Hawks starting PG tonight…LOL
kwooden
December 22nd, 2011
2:01 pm
Willie Green is another serviceable guard, which I wasn’t overly impressed by but he wouldn’t be available this late if he was impressive. If this means Sy sits on the bench, I will be upset, because Sy is the only real athlete on the bench that can make a difference. What this signing really tells us is Wannamaker, Sloan and Stack are gone, and that they did get Tracy to make-up for losing Jamal’s scoring. Now they’ve clearly seen its not going to happen, they went and got another scorer. Green is a scorer and clearing that is what Sund was looking for.
Rufus1
December 22nd, 2011
2:02 pm
The Hawks believe they have ENOUGH SIZE…
They have not signed an additional BIG MAN, so they believe they have enough SIZE. Does this mean that Benson or Rolle will get PLAYING TIME?
doc
December 22nd, 2011
2:04 pm
kw, reasonable assumption though drew feels t mac’s legs are coming, they probably arent where they need to be now nor maybe ever.
doc
December 22nd, 2011
2:05 pm
zaza, al and josh three man rotation with two of them working at 22 ft on offense. rebounding will get worse at this rate. need hungry big, real hungry.
doc
December 22nd, 2011
2:07 pm
didnt i read where drew said marvin and jj need to get more rebounds as they have the size for it? now, i understand his positioning of his players.
Melvin
December 22nd, 2011
2:09 pm
The only big man I see Sund signing is Franciso Elson….
Melvin
December 22nd, 2011
2:10 pm
When it comes to the ASG, follow the money (or lack there of) when considering player signings.
Melvin
December 22nd, 2011
2:13 pm
Lopez injured his foot. Well, you can kiss that Dwight trade to the Nets goodbye or at least until the trade deadline.
ComeOn
December 22nd, 2011
2:20 pm
Benson and Rolle are not contributors.
We need to hope ZaZa and Collins stay healthy and are very effective
Rufus1
December 22nd, 2011
2:21 pm
Melvin
Big man with FOOT PROBLEMS = YAO MING…He(D12) isn’t going the NETS and DWill won’t re-sign…The NETS are Cursed.
ILL-Logical
December 22nd, 2011
2:21 pm
“Pretty sure Josh Powell was on our team last year and he knows Smoove well”.
Annd Josh Powell would be where on the Hawks’ 2011-12 roster?
Rev in Tampa
December 22nd, 2011
2:22 pm
@Melvin – “When it comes to the ASG, follow the money (or lack there of) when considering player signings.”
A more accurate guide to guessing who the ASG sign is to look who played for the Seattle Supersonics.
Rev in Tampa
December 22nd, 2011
2:23 pm
Atlanta Hawks bench is the reincarnation of the Seattle Sonics or the Sonics East.
O'Brien
December 22nd, 2011
2:33 pm
doc,
I think our PGs are Teague, Pargo, and Sloan (or Wanamaker). When Hinrich is healthy, I think they will let one of them go before their contract becomes guaranteed.
This is year 2 of LD’s coaching regime, so just like a second year player should improve, I expect LD to improve as well. I expect him to do a better job leading these guys, and knowing how to handle player rotations.
Ken Strickland
December 22nd, 2011
2:36 pm
RA’MON-While I would love it if we signed Bogans, how can signing a SG, SF in a pinch, going to solve our need for PG help? We need to focus on signing what we NEED, rather than what we WANT.
OBRIEN-I’m not so sure Sund if as focused on OFF as you might think, but I Drew definitely is. You can bet it wasn’t LDrew’s decision to make the trade deadline decision to get rid of Bibby for someone who actually plays DEF. Sund knew we weren’t going to do anything in the playoffs with LDrew’s continued insistence on starting Bibby, and playing him major mins,. His DEF, as it were, had gotten worse than ever, and he was having far too many gms with 0-4 pts scored.
By not resigning Jamal, Sund forced Drew to stop playing gms with Teague, as well as put more emphasis on DEF. Teague’s injury really is unfortunate, for both he and the team. Even without Jamal’s OFF, we’ll still have enough OFF firepower to be effective, as long as we play solid DEF. If I had to make a choice, I’d give up Jamal’s inconsistency and streaky OFF, along with his total none committment to playing DEF, for solid DEF and less, but more consistent, scoring ability anyday.
I love the new idea of wondering if a DEF player is going produce offensively a hell of a lot better than knowing we have 2 DEF liabilities who are going to give up almost as many pts as they score.
Rod from College Park
December 22nd, 2011
2:41 pm
Willie Green is not like Flip in any way. Willie Green is not a scorer. He is very scrappy, plays good defense, but his offensive game is not advanced. He is seviceable. If Pargo can get back to his form prior to his knee injury, he is a better option than Willie Green.
ComeOn
December 22nd, 2011
2:43 pm
““Pretty sure Josh Powell was on our team last year and he knows Smoove well”.
Annd Josh Powell would be where on the Hawks’ 2011-12 roster?”
If ASG was so scared about having Josh Smith’s friend on the team, they wouldn’t have signed Powell. He is not on the team this year because he is not a good basketball player (he was originally signed because of his championship experience). Reggie Evans is a good basketball player.
Next?
Melvin
December 22nd, 2011
2:50 pm
Rev,
I was trying to give Sund the benefit of doubt b/c of the Pargo signing but I did mention Franciso Elson who I thought had played for Sund before…
Melvin
December 22nd, 2011
2:52 pm
OB,
I think Sloan and Wannamaker are as good as gone after the Green signing. Neither guy has impress me after watching the preseason game and the scrimmage.
Ken Strickland
December 22nd, 2011
2:56 pm
I don’t see LDrew giving Green or Pargo the MPG he gave Jamal, but they might end up splitting the difference. If they can play an average of 15MPG and average 6-7PPG each, and not be total DEF liabilities, we will have effectively replaced Jamal’s PPG average. TMac will definitely do a better job overall than DWilkins, provided he remains relatively healthy. I’d much rather have a player who averages 5PPG in 70+gms than someone who averages 7-8PPGs in only 20gms.
Astro Joe
December 22nd, 2011
3:01 pm
Melvin, Pargo is a borderline NBA player at this point, so SLoan or Wanamaker could conceviably take his roster spot. They are all non-guaranteed, so no contract status advantage.
doc, yeah, I like the Green signing. He isn’t explosive but he is tenacious. And from what I recall, he is a “tough guy”. Again, he plays a small version of bully-ball and we certainly know that is something this team lacks. Let’s not expect him to light up the league, dude just signed a contract 3 days before the season starts, so obviously, he isn’t considered an elite talent coming off the bench. But at least Sund has acknowledged that the bench needs someone who can score and/or get FTAs.
Too bad we won’t be able to see the re-sculpted Jason Collins until the season starts. Dude may have devoured a ham, turkey and pan of dressing by then.
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
3:06 pm
Rod from College Park
December 22nd, 2011
2:41 pm
Do you mean the form that has resulted in a career average FROM THE FIELD of .388????
doc
December 22nd, 2011
3:06 pm
astro glad for us then.
i am sitting this one out passing the tix on to my ticket partner. hopefully there for the opening night to see if twin makes an appearance. i forgot him on my depth chart for bigs. unless injury it seems rotation is al, josh and zaza 95% of the time. wonder how josh will find time at three with marvin, t mac and jj capable?
game on tv tonight?
Rev in Tampa
December 22nd, 2011
3:10 pm
Melvin,
Not commenting on your comment, but using your comment to rag on Sund.
i_am_soulstar
December 22nd, 2011
3:11 pm
Willie Green > Pargo
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 22nd, 2011
3:18 pm
Draino!
So, if Drew drained the Bibb-ster of all the talent he had left, then, what makes you think he won’t do the same. WiTh Pargo and T-MaC?
Anybody over Teague right? That seems to be the mantra.
_________
Sorry Ken Strickland, I just don’t see the optimism at thIs point, especially with Teague’s ankle and Rolle’’s plantar fascitis.
Rev in Tampa
December 22nd, 2011
3:21 pm
Dr. Mary,
How does one treat plantar fascitis short of cutting the ligaments and letting them heal correctly? I know little about plantar fascitis.
ComeOn
December 22nd, 2011
3:22 pm
“A more accurate guide to guessing who the ASG sign is to look who played for the Seattle Supersonics.”
LOL