Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 13
Soon after their game against Charlotte tomorrow night, the Hawks will trim the roster down from 18 to no more than 13 (the deadline is Saturday). They have 10 guaranteed contracts and you figure Jannero Pargo is safe. That leaves seven players with contracts that are not fully guaranteed vying for no fewer than two spots and no more than five (16 is the max roster size): Keith Benson, Ivan Johnson, Magnum Rolle, Jerry Stackhouse, Pape Sy, Donald Sloan and Brad Wanamaker.
Here is the depth chart with only the guaranteed guys plus Pargo included (and not including Kirk Hinrich):
PG: Jeff Teague/Pargo
SG: Joe Johnson
SF: Marvin Williams/Tracy McGrady
PF: Josh Smith/Vladimir Radmanovic
C: Al Horford/Zaza Pachulia/Jason Collins
What do the Hawks need most? The answer would seem to be a another guard because both Larry Drew and T-Mac have said McGrady has spent most of his time at small forward. But each time I ask Drew about the backups at positions two through four, he mentions the “versatility” of the roster.
“We’ve got some flexibility,” he said.
In practice, that’s going to mean Vlad sees time at SF and PF, Joe swings from SG to SF (or PG), Josh will be at SF or PF, Al will play C and PF, and T-Mac is at SF and SG (and PG). Drew will have to do lots of creative mixing-and-matching with his lineups, which could be a strength as long as everyone is healthy and effective but becomes problematic if any of the bench guys is unavailable/injured/ineffective/in foul trouble.
That’s where the cuts come in. At some point the Hawks are going to have to play some of the guys they keep. Benson, Rolle, Wanamaker and Sloan probably could use some time in the D-League but can the Hawks afford to send guys down with this breakneck schedule?
Can they really carry just 13 guys, for that matter? I’m imagining there will be days when Drew won’t know if certain guys can go until shootaround or pregame, not to mention scenarios in which he sends a guy out and discovers he just doesn’t have it that night. Won’t he need extra bodies available?
Do the Hawks keep Stackhouse, the only proven NBA player of the lot and a tough-minded vet? Even after adding Pargo, do the Hawks need to keep one of Wanamaker, Sloan or Sy at least until Hinrich returns?
Do they keep Rolle since Vlad is better suited for the three and he can fill in behind Smoove when size is needed (and also can be the third center on those nights when Collins is not a good option)? Is Ivan Johnson a guy they keep because, those he’s a bit undersized and 27-years old, he provides the energy and grit that could provide a spark for a tired team? Would they dare take the hit of releasing either Benson, whom they declared a long-term project when they drafted him, or Sy, whom they bought out of his French league contract last year?
Also, will money influence these decisions? Sy and Rolle count the same for team salary purposes, while Stackhouse costs a bit more. The rookies are the cheapest options by about $300,000.
I’m guessing the Hawks still aren’t sure about some of these issues and tomorrow’s game will factor into a few of them.
“We’re just in a situation where we have to make some decisions as far as who we are going to keep,” Drew said. “We are using these preseason games so they can get in these games and show us what they can do.”
If you are looking for clues, Drew offered a brief assessment of the youngsters in the first game:
- Sloan “played really well the first half getting us organized and running the point guard position.”
- Ivan Johnson “was really an animal in the first half. He came in and picked up the intensity in the first half. And that’s who he is. He is a high-energy guy. He plays with a physicality.”
- Benson “had some blocked shots.”
- Rolle “played OK.”
- Wanamaker “came in and did a sufficient job.”
“We will look at them again tomorrow night,” Drew said. “I am sure they all want to play better.”
Camp report
- Drew said Teague “turned [his ankle] a little bit” and left practice today. “We’re not sure of the severity right now,” Drew said. Teague is questionable to play tomorrow which, under the circumstances, means he’s unlikely to go.
- Drew acknowledged that McGrady has appeared passive at times but said he’s not concerned: “I think he is just trying to get acclimated to what we do and the pace at which we play. And then him trying to get his rhythm to what we do. We will keep putting him in situations wehre he is most effective. The one thing I will say about him because he is such a willing passer, he doesn’t force a lot of things. We may at times look at some of the things that he does as not very aggressive but a lot of times he makes the simple play and the open man gets the ball. But he will get his rhythm and get his timing and we will keep putting him in situations where he does that until he gets up to speed.”
- Stackhouse got the best defensive grade among the guards in Monday’s game. Stack played in just seven games last season so it’s going to take him time to round into form. “I think neither he nor Tracy have their legs under them yet,” Drew said. “He didn’t play last year, so being off a year you just don’t get your legs back right away, I don’t care how much you have been working out in the summer. It takes going through a real training camp, the bumping and the grinding. I don’t think either guy has their legs under them yet but I can see that it’s coming.”
- By all accounts, Stack has been good in the leadership role that the Hawks feel this group really needs. The captains have responded to him. “We need guys that have had that type of experience and come into a locker room with a group of young guys and tell them what it takes to be a real pro,” Drew said. “How to endure a season and for a team that’s talented, the price that you have to pay, the commitment that you have to make.”
- Drew said he plans to play the regulars more tomorrow.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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262 comments Add your comment
superiorblogman
December 21st, 2011
11:14 pm
Teague/Bibby
Joe/Jordan/Pape
Marvin/T-Mac
Josh/Benson/Rolle
Al/Zaza/Collins
+
Whoever we picked with first round pick
Greater than that garbage we will be putting out even when Hinrich comes back.
doc
December 21st, 2011
11:15 pm
o’b, you had to remind me of that one?
Tree rollins
December 22nd, 2011
1:03 am
Stackhouse/McGrady??? You kiddin’ me? Only guys we’re missing on this team now are Starbury and Penny Hardaway -hah!!
Tree rollins
December 22nd, 2011
1:04 am
Might as well pick up Iverson too
Buddy Grizzard
December 22nd, 2011
1:07 am
Bill Simmons: Ron Artest should have changed his name to Metta World Amnesty Clause. about 15 minutes ago
Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1hEzl6JcJ
superiorblogman
December 22nd, 2011
1:35 am
for all the criticism of hinrich can anyone really validate the cost of bibby for what he did? how about 30 mil from the basg? wonder if they will take him to court as well?
Bibby is easily verified unless you have some type of issue with facts. We made a big jump in wins from 37 to 44 or 45 with Bibby. Hinrich is not even on the court and we did not get any better in Wins-Lose when Hinrich came those are facts. Bibby did more for this team than Hinrich. Maybe his contract should have been shorter, but he helped this team take a step. Hinrich has not, don’t forget we had made it to the 2nd round 2 years in a row before Hinrich and that Orlando team had been ruined by there front office and was not the same team that took a dump on us the year before. Hinrich has done nothing but messed our team up by decimating our depth.
Buddy Grizzard
December 22nd, 2011
1:42 am
Yeah cause the Wiz are playoff-bound with JC2.
JaeEvolution
December 22nd, 2011
1:42 am
Some of you guys should relax with all the optimism. This is a year where we have a much higher chance of taking a big step backwards than building on what we did last year. I’m hoping for the best but preparing for the worst, we are one more starter injury away from seriously coming out the gates stumbling…
UGA
December 22nd, 2011
1:45 am
Hawks first 5 is solid, but we gotta sign some defensive wings……….for James and Wade. Bogans makes sense, and he shot 47 percent from 3 vs us in the playoffs.
UGA
December 22nd, 2011
1:47 am
When healthy, a second 5 of Hinrich, Bogans, TMAC, Rad and Zaza is much better than Teague, Crawford, Wilkins, Powell and Zaza from last year.
Greg
December 22nd, 2011
1:57 am
MC — Isn’t Smoove close friends w/ K-Mart? Assuming he would accept a one-year deal, wouldn’t K-Mart arguably be one of those difference-makers that Gearon asserted they’d be willing to pick up?
I know he’s older, but he’s also been fairly healthy for awhile now, and he is a legit big who (a) consistently shows up in the scoring and rebounding columns and (b) would not cost this team talent since no trade would be necessary. This one, to me, is a no-brainer.
ToeKnee
December 22nd, 2011
2:10 am
SIGN STACK!!!!
NUNNA!!
December 22nd, 2011
2:41 am
Watch and see after thursdays game u all will be praising Magnum Rolle!!
You go by one game and he is just as high energy as Ivan Johnson is..
He is a shot blocker and he has better moves than AL,Benson,Zsa Zsa and all of our low posters on the roster..
He has an outside shot,and did i mention that he is great in the low post??
I will be on here thursday nite and i will be one who will back up my backing of Magnum Rolle to be added on this team and after thursdays game SO WILL YOU!!
Roy
December 22nd, 2011
2:47 am
One thing I feel is benson is safe. The Hawks dont have that shot blocker presence besides josh smith. So he seems more reasonable although he seems like a project I think if given the chance he will surprise people. As for Stackhouse I agree that he should be brought on as a coach. I mean stack was great acouple years ago but there is a reason he played seven games last year. Out of the guards its a toss between wanna and sy.,both have size that is,intriging I would not mind keeping both as if what the part time owner said is true the hawks will need to get their handa on some young,players.
wut
December 22nd, 2011
3:29 am
A power 4 needs a jump shot. Josh can’t shoot… and putting him at SF will only encourage him. Don’t blame me, you know what you saw in the first preseason game, MORE OF THE SAME. End of discussion.
wut
December 22nd, 2011
3:31 am
*power 3
wut
December 22nd, 2011
3:34 am
Superiorblogman,
Sund is at fault for those deals also. They (ASG) went cheap on front office hires and head coach, these are the results.
zachdahater
December 22nd, 2011
3:59 am
I’m with you NUNNA!!
I’ve been supporting Magnum Rolle since the playoffs! I say he looked MUCH better than Benson. Benson DOES NOT pursue rebounds, that’s exactly what we DON’T NEED any more of. Rolle seems better offensively and rebounds better.
SIGN ROLLE!!!
SIGN WANNAMAKER!!!
SIGN SY
SIGN IVAN JOHNSON!!! (This man can REBOUND. I want him as a just in case backup)
SIGN STACK (Just to have a plan C)
GO HAWKS!!!!
Guido
December 22nd, 2011
4:16 am
The lottery days are coming soon for this team
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
6:09 am
superiorblogman
December 22nd, 2011
1:35 am
Lay off the pipe: with Bibby we would have lost 4-0 again. Hinrich played excellent D on Jameer making it difficult for him to get to the rack and to dump easy passes to Howard.
Yes, Howard still scored in bunches, but it was 90% on stand still post up action where he was corralled by Collins, Zaza, Hilton and Powell taking turns at him.
Two years ago, Howard simply dunked and dunked facing the basket. He did not even had to bother posting up anyone:
Jameer would leave Bibby in the dust, our defense switched and scrambled and Jameer either went to the rack easily or dumped a pass to Howard who only had to jump and dunk it effortlessly.
Yes, Bibby was a contributor to our improvement, but he should have been shifted to back up two years ago: we should have taken our chances with Teague immediately even if that meant a drop in wins.
Sometimes you need to take a step back in order to take two forward (we are probably still in that position right now with our frontcourt).
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
6:17 am
zachdahater:
“Benson DOES NOT pursue rebounds, that’s exactly what we DON’T NEED any more of.”
I don’t know what you have been watching, but Benson hits the offensive boards well. He simply lacks bulk and is pushed out of position.
Look at his college stats and you’ll see that he is historically a much better rebounder than Rolle.
Rolle is a soft shooter and plays more like a SF. Benson likes the paint and simply needs the bulk.
Those 3 blocks against CHA were a beauty: he was closing shut that rim whilst he was there.
Just Joe
December 22nd, 2011
6:20 am
Count me in with NUNNA as a fan of Rolle. If he can get past the foot trouble and get in shape, he’ll be a player in this league. Better mid-range game than all our bigs except Horford. Excellent shot blocker as well.
Just Joe
December 22nd, 2011
6:23 am
Benson has a center’s game, just needs strength and experience.
Rolle is a combo-forward.
Keep them both. This team needs that length and shot blocking.
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
6:39 am
Just Joe,
Yeah. I like both of them. I think they have both talent and body to be useful.
Just like last year, I don’t care too much about the regular season record: provided that we get to the playoffs with our staff duly developed and with defined roles and rotations by that time, we will be fine: young legs at the end of the season could be the difference.
When HOU won their first ring, they “came from behind” and so did DET recently.
Just Joe
December 22nd, 2011
6:44 am
With our salary situation, one of the few ways we can actually improve this team is to develop a couple of these second round talents in to rotational players. Upgrades the quality of minutes we eventually get out of our bench, but also builds trade value. I’d keep Sy, Rolle, Benson, and offer 10-day contracts to Stack & Ivan Johnson.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 22nd, 2011
6:52 am
Sleep Over!
“when do we get a report on marvin like this on what he has done to up his game?” -doc-
___________
doc, didn’t you hear? Marvin had surgery and laid on his back all Summer. Oh! And, he attended a lot of college football games too.
Tremaine
December 22nd, 2011
7:09 am
Yawn at the MC for wasting a whole page trying to figure out which scrub do we keep.
Tremaine
December 22nd, 2011
7:09 am
darrell starks
December 21st, 2011
8:32 pm
Marvin can not starte, just make more sense 2 bring him of bench to balance the team, why can’t LD see that ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
co-sign.
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
7:13 am
With the above I am not saying that we have a realistic chance at winning it all (it would need major development BY ALL guys).
But, I still think that if they mesh and incorporate a good defensive mentality to their game, the ECF is not a pipe dream at all.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 22nd, 2011
7:15 am
Bow Wow!
The ASKG are like waves. We fans are like a barking dog. We’re just barking at waves, but that doesn’t stop the waves from rolling in.
We need a new owner and bad. We’ve all been reduced to orators of the obvious to ad nauseum. Happy Holidays everyone. Enjoy the scrimmage tonight on FSS.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 22nd, 2011
7:21 am
What’s the K stand for in ASKG?
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 22nd, 2011
7:23 am
Jelly Rolle!
Magnum looked really fat in the hips to me. Maybe my 13″ RCA was distorting his figure? (I was at my office).
But, I did like his game and physicality. With the plantar fascitis? Tyreke Evans comes to mind, he had a whole of down time. Let’s face it, most players did nothing during the lockout besides looking for chinese buffets and are out of shape now.
Fundamentals
December 22nd, 2011
7:24 am
Several comments on “when Rolle works himself into shape”? Really? Kid should’ve been in the best shape possible with such a late start.
Fundamentals
December 22nd, 2011
7:26 am
Jelly Rolle!!!! Perfect!
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 22nd, 2011
7:33 am
Spirit KILLERS!
ASKillerG
Tremaine
December 22nd, 2011
7:53 am
Question, if the Hawks had Dwight Howard would they be worried about filling seats?
Trojan
December 22nd, 2011
8:26 am
Cheap, Cheap, Cheap. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb. (ASG)
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
8:26 am
http://www.nba.com/hawks/fans/Harry_Childrens_Hospital.html
I think we would better off if we signed one those reindeers to back up Teague.
With those antlers breaking up the passing lanes we would have a perimeter D like no other in the league.
O'Brien
December 22nd, 2011
8:37 am
doc,
First preseason game; 27 mins, 15 rebs.
Second preseason game; 27 mins, 16 rebs.
Guess who? Kevin Love. Josh is a better defender, but Kevin knows how to crash them boards.
Josh’s career high in rebounds is 8.8 in 09-10. I hope his mindset this season will be to average 12 rebs per game.
STRETCH
December 22nd, 2011
8:47 am
“Stackhouse/McGrady??? You kiddin’ me? Only guys we’re missing on this team now are Starbury and Penny Hardaway -hah!!”
“Might as well pick up Iverson too”
Hey Tree, they should pick YOU up since they need a real center…LOL!
STRETCH
December 22nd, 2011
8:48 am
“I think we would better off if we signed one those reindeers to back up Teague.”
“With those antlers breaking up the passing lanes we would have a perimeter D like no other in the league.”
vava74…that was classic..LOL!!!
O'Brien
December 22nd, 2011
9:01 am
Deshawn Stevenson is in negotiations with the Nets. If they can find a way to get Howard, I like the combination of Deron, Stevenson, and D12.
STRETCH
December 22nd, 2011
9:06 am
Per Hoopshype:
Andris Biedrins in still a free agent? The write up on him:
7′0″ 240
Center
The Good-High energy player, Good shot blocker, Good rebounder, Runs the floor well.
The Bad-Not much from the offensive side, terrible from the charity stripe.
I wonder whats up with him? Anybody got some insite?
superiorblogman
December 22nd, 2011
9:23 am
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
6:09 am
superiorblogman
December 22nd, 2011
1:35 am
Lay off the pipe: with Bibby we would have lost 4-0 again. Hinrich played excellent D on Jameer making it difficult for him to get to the rack and to dump easy passes to Howard.
Yes, Howard still scored in bunches, but it was 90% on stand still post up action where he was corralled by Collins, Zaza, Hilton and Powell taking turns at him.
Two years ago, Howard simply dunked and dunked facing the basket. He did not even had to bother posting up anyone:
Jameer would leave Bibby in the dust, our defense switched and scrambled and Jameer either went to the rack easily or dumped a pass to Howard who only had to jump and dunk it effortlessly.
Yes, Bibby was a contributor to our improvement, but he should have been shifted to back up two years ago: we should have taken our chances with Teague immediately even if that meant a drop in wins.
Sometimes you need to take a step back in order to take two forward (we are probably still in that position right now with our frontcourt).
Vava, Zaza the same person, I bunch of beg headed talk with no real action or sense behind it. The fact remains Bibby’s impact was factual, we took a leap in regular season wins. Hinrich’s impact is just a bunch of people blowing his shallow accomplishments out of proportion. Jason Collins was more instrumental in us winning that series than Hinrich because he showed the way and had the heart to take the punishment in order to play Dwight man to man. That made the outside defenders a step quicker because they did not have to be in scramble mode to get back to players. Just like a good defensive line’s rush makes cornerbacks look good because they have to cover for less time. You are a joke and no nothing about sports. Stay off your knees for Kirk’s no impact having butt. He has killed this team by killing our depth and not playing. Not really him but the ASG, Sund, Drew, and the whole Front office, but Kirk leaves a lot to be desired even when he plays. Very marginal combo guard. Good that his value is still high hope he comes back and looks serviceable so we can get something out of him.
superiorblogman
December 22nd, 2011
9:30 am
Once again we had already made it 2 the 2nd round 2 years in a row without Kirk. Bibby helped us get from 37-45 as a 8th seed to 44 or 45 in his first full year. Kirk did not help us get better record wise after he showed up and we had already been 2 the 2nd row 2 years in a row. Eastern Conference Finals is the next step and funny how Teague almost helped get us there rather than the team killer Kirk Hinrich
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
December 22nd, 2011
9:58 am
“You are a joke and no nothing about sports.”
No nothing? ROFLMFAO
Ignorance accusing another of ignorance. Unintended Irony at it’s very best.
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
10:12 am
dang, the blog monster ate my reply:
in summary:
why is Bibby THE cause for the jump in the standings and no one else?
what about Flip and Jamal with career years in 08/09 and 09/10?
what about Childress being one of the top 6th men in the league (6th in voting in 07/08)?
what about Horford’s presence in 07/08 and its evolution going forward (which was mostly positive in 08/09 and 09/10 – he went Diaper mode midway after being decked in the mouth by Howard’s elbow and the transformation was completed in the 4-0 trouncing)?
doc
December 22nd, 2011
10:13 am
MC could you retrieve one eaten by the blog monster?
doc
December 22nd, 2011
10:13 am
ate mine, too.
wordsmithtom
December 22nd, 2011
10:23 am
Dept of Unintended Irony,
There was once a political party called the Know Nothing Party. Seriously, look it up…in the 1830’s or something. Their platform was “we know nothing”, versus the Masons who supposedly were the backers of the founding fathers who supposedly knew everything.
Keep up the good work finding humor on this blog. God knows we need it.