Atlanta Hawks: More on NBA superstars looking past Atlanta
Some stuff that didn’t make it into my story about NBA superstars bypassing Atlanta:
Courtney Brunious, the assistant director of the University of Southern California’s Sports Business Institute, said Atlanta is a good market for players in terms of business opportunities. Plus, he said location is not as important as it once was for building a brand: “You see across the country if you have a major superstar, the companies will come find them. Players also have a wider base through new media opportunities. You can be the proverbial big fish in a small pond if you have a good strategy to reach out to companies.”
More from Chris Webber on Atlanta fans: “I feel sorry for Joe Johnson when D-Rose or New York come to town. Usually you see a player dunk and say, ‘This is my house!’ With the Hawks you have the other team coming down and dunking and saying, ‘This is my house!’”
Webber said he takes heat from Atlanta fans for criticizing them but that he’s not along in his opinion: “I will be the bad guy and take the bullet for it but, come on. This is what Atlanta people tell me.”
Former Hawks All-Star Steve Smith said Atlanta’s changing population makes it difficult for teams to build loyalty: “You had a star, Dominique, who put team and the franchise on his back. Since then, there are a lot of fans here who are not from Atlanta and cheer for the different teams that come through.”
More from Reggie Miller: “The Hawks aren’t even on anyone’s radar for free agency. You give one guy, Tracy McGrady, the [former] scoring champion, a one-year minimum contract. That lets you know the state of the Hawks right there.”
Charles Barkley on the possibility of Dwight Howard playing for the Hawks: “You don’t want to play at home, bro. It’s a pain in the ass. Trust me, it’s a nightmare to play at home. He’s a smart guy. You’ve got too many distractions with friends and family.”
Barkley on Joe Johnson’s contract: “That contract is going to hamstring them for a long time.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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84 comments Add your comment
Grandmaster JeJe
December 19th, 2011
1:09 pm
Enter your comments hereFirst
Amnesty asg
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2011
1:09 pm
“I feel sorry for Joe Johnson when D-Rose or New York come to town. Usually you see a player dunk and say, ‘This is my house!’ With the Hawks you have the other team coming down and dunking and saying, ‘This is my house!’”
Usually you don’t see Joe Johnson dunk.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 19th, 2011
1:10 pm
If ASG WAS A STABLE OWNERSHIP WE WOULD NOT HAVE THESE ISSUES
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2011
1:13 pm
“Former Hawks All-Star Steve Smith said Atlanta’s changing population makes it difficult for teams to build loyalty: “You had a star, Dominique, who put team and the franchise on his back. Since then, there are a lot of fans here who are not from Atlanta and cheer for the different teams that come through.””
Every warm weather city has the exact same problem, whether it’s Miami, Phoenix, Dallas, or whatever. Those fan bases have gotten behind their teams now because they have stars who put the team and franchise on their back and won titles and/or MVPs. Joe is good but he is not that good. Everyone in ATL can see that except Gearon the spin machine.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 19th, 2011
1:15 pm
GEARON I HOPE YOU ARE READING THIS. YOU ARE INCOMPETENT
Astro Joe
December 19th, 2011
1:21 pm
I honestly don’t get this story-line. Hawks don’t have cap space to sign a superstar. Instead of hoping and praying that someone would take less money to leave their current team and sign with us, they held on to Joe. Instead of hoping that they had the resources to trade for someone as good or better than JOe (by creating a trade exception), they kept Joe. They went with a “one in the hand…” strategy. A few years ago, we watched some teams gut their franchises in hopes of landing a handful of major stars. The Nets landed Deron and are no closer to keeping him or the payoffs than they were with Devin Harris and Derrick Favors. We keep acting like once a superstar gets here, he would NEVER want to leave. That has not been the reality in this league nor in this city.
Until I see Amare, Melo, CP3, Deron, D12, etc. win something, I won’t spend my days wondering “what if”. The Hawks can and should get better by upgrading their roster with guys not in the window of the NBA Store in Manhattan. That would be a great start… exceptional management of the resources that they can acquire. I’d rather b!tch about not signing Anthony Carter or Earl Watson than spend my days dreaming about CP3 or Deron.
jgsbirds
December 19th, 2011
1:24 pm
no big deal it’s with every team and every town. start winning more consistently and more players and fans will have the hawks and philips arena on their radar. i root for the falcons, hawks and braves regardless of their records. if i had nba talent i would love to play for my hometown team! i would love to be the player that turned my hometown team into winners!!! would love to take out some of my anger on all of the bandwagon fans of atlanta that claim their fans of “whoever” that team that is winning that particular year.
no big deal here folks–just make it more special by winning with what you have here!!! i get mad, scream, curse, cheer, yell and laugh at the players on the hawks every year. these guys are “my” team, period! it doesn’t matter who’s wearing the uni–i’m rooting for the hawks and this year just like any other–hopefully one year they put it all together and win the whole shooting match!
and we they do–everyone in atlanta will say, “oh i’ve always loved the hawks.” whatever people!
GStateBen
December 19th, 2011
1:26 pm
Dear Reggie Miller, stop talking. Tracy McGrady WAS a great scorer. He had not scored more than 10 points per game since 2008-09. If he can give the Hawks 8 ppg off the bench, I’m thrilled.
O'Brien
December 19th, 2011
1:41 pm
FTPB,
Rev,
Co-sign. One of the reasons the players endorsed LD was because they knew they could get away with certain habits. If he was an enforcer/disciplinarian, do you think Josh and others would have lobbied for him to be the HC?
Also, remember when our starters would come out flat, and fall behind early? For weeks, LD said he was thinking about tinkering with the lineup. And not only did he keep the lineup the same, he didn’t even change the lineup coming out at halftime. So the same guys who started flat in the first half, started flat in the second half, leading to the blowouts that we had.
IMO, LD is all talk, very little walk. And the players know it. That’s why they like him.
Ernest
December 19th, 2011
1:42 pm
MC, have you heard from any players ‘off the record’ regarding why ATL isn’t on their destination list? I realize the current team was built using the Detroit Piston model from earlier this century. Can that still work?
O'Brien
December 19th, 2011
1:48 pm
I think a big issue is that the ASG does not do a good job of marketing the players they have. How about getting a real radio station so that fans can listen to the game clearly? How about more appearances around town. More marketing billboards. More commercials. Or is that not in the budget?
If you’re paying JJ superstar money, I think they should do a better job of marketing him (and Josh and Al). Of course JJ making comments like “I don’t care if the fans show up” does not help lol.
Astro Joe
December 19th, 2011
1:50 pm
Ernest, the Pistons model that only worked when deftly worked by a HOF head coach?
They will likely pivot to the “Dallas” model while exclduing the fact that Dallas had some very talented and well-paid role players (and a really, really good coach who had previously led teams to the conference finals).
PMC
December 19th, 2011
2:00 pm
To get a superstar here, they are going to have to draft one. Unfortunately the ownership group put thier trust in Billy Knight when they had the opportunity to get stars and he took the wrong guys over and over and over again. His philosophy was flawed. He did find a few good ball players over that time period, but the NBA is about finding stars. He passed on star after star, to draft the likes of Marvin and Shelden Williams.
They have some decent players, and for the most part they play well as a team, but without trancendent superstars, it’s not that interesting night in and night out, and they are a decent playoff team bumping up against the talent cieling in the playoffs.
They just aren’t very interesting. You can’t fake excitement.
The team ultimately fails to draw, because they have failed to draft stars.
Rufus1
December 19th, 2011
2:00 pm
Give me the B+ Level Player(Joe)..That wants to stay…Instead of the the A-level player I have to BEG to stay.
“You give one guy, Tracy McGrady, the [former] scoring champion, a one-year minimum contract. That lets you know the state of the Hawks right there.”-Reggie Miller-
How much is he worth? Didn’t the Pistons pay the same amount, so what is their state of mind?
“Until I see Amare, Melo, CP3, Deron, D12, etc. win something, I won’t spend my days wondering “what if”. -Astro Joe- Co-sign
What has being “Superstar” got them, NOTHING. Contrary to popular belief, basketball is still a TEAM SPORT
Grandad
December 19th, 2011
2:02 pm
I agree with Barkley.
By the way, Gearon said: [paraphrase]
‘ Joe will be fit enough to play for the duration of his contract ‘
Thusly;
the band of miserly malfeasant misfits;
should have used the amnesty option this year,
rather than saving it for Joe.
If their thinking is to save it as a failsafe in case
Joe declines, then they are at odds with their own
mindset. [being - Joe's magnificent fitness]
Plus, the longer they wait to amnesty Marv;
the less sense it makes for him,
as his contract becomes less and less
of an albatross each year.
Therefore;
they [the band of MMM] have bungled the amnesty process
with the same level of malfeasance that they have with their TPE’s
not to mention the draft choices which they choose to sell off.
I mention Malfeasance in the sense – “a breach of public trust”
*[miserly & misfits are self explanatory]
My point: *[as always]
Had we used the amnesty provision on Marv,
we could have signed a very good FA “Big Man”.
*getting a Big
Tom Brinkle
December 19th, 2011
2:05 pm
Well…how about the fact that the Atlanta Hawks have not had a bonafide First Class star since Dominique Wilkins and they traded him away for Danny Manning in 1994 while they were #1 in the East during Jordan’s retirement…that said…Hawks fans lost faith in this organization a loooong time ago…stars draw fans and Atlantan’s have had to search elsewhere since Dominique’s departure…
ToeKnee
December 19th, 2011
2:07 pm
MC,
Great reads so far this year, the Gearon interview and the daily camp reports have been some of your best stuff. I don’t always write in but I haven’t missed a blog in years. I think a lot of these issues that you’ve been discussing concerning the perception of the Hawks and their current management from a fan and player perspective are really improving. I think it will just take more time. The fans are starting to come back to the Hawks, it takes consistently having a good team to root for, and I think what Gearon is finding so hard is that he doesn’t realize that he lost us, and he has to win us back. He is correct when he says that he has done some things to try to earn us back as loyal fans, and I appreciate it as a fan, he has gotten better, but for a few years there when the Hawks were just awful, and year after year after year Billy Knight continued to draft players that didn’t make us any better. There were so many forwards it was insane! You forget about all the 6-7 long wingspan guys that he kept bringing in here, by using the only valuable assets we could gain from being so terrible, and that have gone through here and were expected to produce or be part of our “core”, Dermarr Johnson, Josh Childress, Al Harrington, Marvin Williams, Boris Diaw, Shareef abdur rahim and the shiveringly awful Shelden Williams. He just kept doing it! And they let him! And we sucked every year! And I watched and rooted for those teams and we were bad, really really frkin bad. And then he passed on Chris Paul and Deron Williams, two Hall of famers, for Marvin Willaims. We already had Josh Smith and Josh Childress from the previous year! And Al Harrington. and Zaza Pachulia. and Joe Johnson. It made no sense. You lost us. That was the moment when public opinion changed to : These guys are idiots. The team made no sense, and we were still awful. It has taken forever to rebuild this team.
But we have one now.
I’m so excited for this season to start. I think the additions of Mcgrady stackhouse and Radmanovich are so crucial for this team, i think they provide some needed veteran balance and i think tracy mcgrady especially will be a huge addition for us, I like the idea of him bringing the ball up and starting the offense, I see the team going in that direction at times to change things up. Ready to get the season started! Let’s Go Hawks!!!!
O'Brien
December 19th, 2011
2:08 pm
2 of my reasons why superstars stay away.
1) Superstar players bypass ATL because they have never seen the ASG go over the luxury tax threshold.
A superstar wants to make $20+ mil plus annually and still be confident that the team will still spend the money to bring in other players to surround him, even if it means going over the tax.
But the ASG has no history of going over the tax (regardless of their “we will go over the tax for a player that puts us over the top”). It doesn’t always translate to victories, but the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics, Heat have all gone over the cap. And everybody knows money is no object for the Nets owner.
Think about it. What moves have the Hawks made to help JJ out (besides paying up to keep the core)? Which legit FA have they brought in? Have they ever used any of their exceptions?
2) The Hawks don’t have a marketable coach or GM (does anybody want to play for Woody, LD, BK, or Rick Sund), so that attraction is not there either.
Cedric
December 19th, 2011
2:08 pm
You hit it on the head Astro Joe, these cats around here think that everybody has somethin against the Hawks, but in reality we can only go with what the cap space will allow. I mean yeah Joe contract does handycap us to a certain (large) extent but the reality is, there is only one champ at the end of the year and if it’s not your team then guess what your damn strategy didn’t work either. Hawks have a decent team in which we should get behind and support, so we don’t lose the good young players we do have. If Josh leave the Hawks today then who the hell we gonna go see give us that Human Highlight us real Hawks fans grew up watching Nique do for soo long. You don’t gut your team like them other foolish franchises have done because in the NBA it will take you a long time unless you hit the jackpot like Clippers and Thunder have done with thru the draft. Watch the Hawks this season and stop complaining.
ToeKnee
December 19th, 2011
2:14 pm
Also I know they haven’t signed Stackhouse yet but I think they should. He’ll be valuable for the team outside of game production and in the playoffs. Sign Stack!
Macaroni Tony
December 19th, 2011
2:14 pm
@MC this was another write up, but I feel that players would come here if other players recruited them.
Macaroni Tony
December 19th, 2011
2:18 pm
@Astro Joe that makes a lot of since, the media blow these guys up to make them feel bigger than what they are. None this so called superstars have a ring as of yet.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2011
2:28 pm
” How about getting a real radio station so that fans can listen to the game clearly? How about more appearances around town. More marketing billboards. More commercials. Or is that not in the budget?”
Nah, they used the entire marketing budget to pay tolls on 400.
Slimjr
December 19th, 2011
2:31 pm
From Previous Blog:
“And what happens when the defender covers Horford so he cannot get that midrange J? Smoove is unstoppable when he attacks the hoop. Let’s see how he does this year”
Haven’t you heard @Grandmaster JEJE? All NBA Al has acquired a new weapon to add to his offensive arsenal and we should see it on display tonight. Its called a turn-around fade away jump shot! I sure hope it works?
Ra'mon
December 19th, 2011
2:32 pm
To be honest, this team has enough stars. This team has THREE all stars (sorry but Josh is an all star, KG should’ve never been in the last two seasons). If they were able to add someone like Dalembert off of the bench, along with Bogans, than I think they could go to the ECF annually!
Slimjr
December 19th, 2011
2:35 pm
Hawks= THE BIG 3? Impressive……GO Hawks!
18-4, 1st 22 games…Hawks,Miami, and Chicago wrestling for the conference top spot!! Like Coach, I got my fingers crossed too! lol
Slimjr
December 19th, 2011
2:38 pm
CWebb= Mr meltdown… Your opinion of Hawk fans falls on deaf ears, ya big stiff..
Grandad
December 19th, 2011
2:56 pm
I think some of yawl misunderstand what it takes
to be an A+ player, or to be a “SuperDuperStar” !
It’s more than talent.
A month or so ago, I made a list of players set in tiers:
SuperDupers, Supers, Really Goods, All Stars, Up & Comers,
and so on.
Many times the difference on this list was not talent.
Example;
Amare Stoudemire has infinetly more athletic talent
than did Larry Bird.
Yet Bird is one of the ten best players of all time,
while Amare, although very good, will unlikely even be in the HOF.
Some people might say the separation is;
the head and the heart.
*[not Bird & Amare just whatever seperates greatness]
That is too simplistic.
There is an intrinsic nature to some athletes that is “God Given”.
-a Blessing-
Jordan, Bird, Kobe, Russell had / have this, whatever it is.
It remains to be seen if LeBron does ?
I’m fairly certain D.Howard does not.
One characteristic that I absotively know for a fact …
that an A+ SuperDuper has is;
the ability to make his teammates better.
This entails “more” than passing teammates the ball.
This means causing “player A” to rise above his natural ability level
and play one or two stages higher than he should be able to perform.
Jason Collins started at Center in the NBA finals
while playing alongside Jason Kidd. *[JK possess that gene]
No, the Hawks do not have an A+ SuperDuper.
But there are less of those around than people think.
Note:
Teaguer, Joe, Josh, Al, __________?
I think we are missing one piece.
If we have 5 pieces all equal, as the above four ?
Assuming Teaguer is equal ?
Then we are one piece away. (plus a bench)
The one piece – does not have to be a SS !
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2011
3:00 pm
“Amare Stoudemire has infinetly more athletic talent
than did Larry Bird.
Yet Bird is one of the ten best players of all time,
while Amare, although very good, will unlikely even be in the HOF.”
Athletic talent is not the only kind of talent. Ball skills are also a talent. There are plenty of incredibly athletic people who don’t have a natural ability to shoot, dribble, and pass who will never make it anywhere close to the NBA. Sure, all those things take work, but some people still start off better at those things than others.
If it was all about athletic talent, then Gearon would be right that Smoove is the next best thing to LeBron. But LeBron has better ball skills than Smoove will ever have.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Bogut.Leuer
December 19th, 2011
3:05 pm
Ken Strickland
* HORFORD HATERS insist on making such a big issue of AHorford
- who’s one of the NBA’s most prolific midrange jumpshooters, taking jumpshots, while having absolutely nothing to say about JSmith, who’s one of the NBAs worst midrange jumpshooters,
- Smith is not the fat old guy taking 3 pointers at the park. He dropped weight (which was what I said he should do) and is a 15 feet shooter and in. Drive and kick with Teague or PnR with Joe and he finishes with athletic Baseline dunks and opponents foul him and we get free throws.
——–
RE: “taking so many outside shots? WHERE’S THE DOGGONE LOGIC AND/OR COMMON SENSE?”
4. Based on Hollinger’s profiles, what do the Hawks need most?
I see absolutely nothing wrong with a Center taking jumpshots, if that’s what he does best….particularly if it pulls the opposing center away from the basket.
Oh like he pulled Joakim and Gibson away.
Bret LaGree, Hoopinion: Players who can create or convert higher percentage shots: at the rim, beyond the arc, and by getting to the foul line. It’s really difficult to be consistently productive with an offense built around two-point jump shots.
Horford plays at the elbow, and cant dribble, so he’s limited to pick and pop. Prolific? You act like he’s Dirk. Prolific? Please, how about excessive.
A 3 point shooter pulls defenders away from the basket. Horford didn’t “pull” Dwight, Joakim or 6′10 Taj Gibson or 6′7 Brandon Bass or 6′10 Ryan Andersen last year.
Horford’s scoring rate is terrible because he’s 1 dimensional. Close out on the pick and pop and make him drive. He has no stop and pop jumper, no floater.
Make him drive and he’s liable to twist his ankle or get injured trying to dunk. And screw anybody who says we should be happy for a half@ss playoff team.
RE: It’s downright stupid to keep demanding that Horford concentrate on becoming a banger inside, when he’s such an effective and efficient midrange shooter.
– Also Josh Smith has little to no skills “down low”.
hawks_4_life
December 19th, 2011
3:12 pm
Astro Joe,
I joined your bball league, should be fun.
Bob Fossil
December 19th, 2011
3:19 pm
My 6 year old shows more heart when taking a poop than Joe has in his entire body when on the court…
Astro Joe
December 19th, 2011
3:22 pm
hawks_4_life, I sent the invite to last year’s crew (those who made their email addresses visible). I wasn’t looking to exclude anyone and will make the info available later to other interested parties. (Last year’s Commish is MIA, hoping nothing is wrong with him).
Astro Joe
December 19th, 2011
3:25 pm
Bob Fossil, sounds like you have the makings of a 5-time pooping All-Star on your hands. Congrats, I hope that works out well for you.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2011
3:25 pm
In order to maximize his (her?) pooping talents, you should teach your 6 year old how to break into college dormitories and poop in laundry hampers.
Slimjr
December 19th, 2011
3:31 pm
@Bob Fossil
HAVEN’T YOU HEARD? CRACK IS WACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dejay
December 19th, 2011
3:38 pm
Tom Brinkle hit the nail on the head. A lot of folks still haven’t forgiven the Hawks over the Nique for Manning debacle in 1994; some haven’t stepped foot in a basketball arena for an NBA game since.
While it’s been nearly 20 since that hideous move, what’s changed? The uniforms changed, the roster changed, the coaches changed, the front office and ownership changed, even the arena they play in have changed. The one thing that haven’t is that they’re no closer to winning an NBA title now than they were the night Nique was shipped to the Clippers. Fans in town know that for FACT and, since there’s no transcendent star on the roster to keep the locals interested when Kobe or Team Voltron aren’t in town, they stay away in droves. Until they prove the masses wrong, which they haven’t since moving here in 1968, they’ll stay away until (insert superstar here) arrives in town.
Them’s the facts. They had their shot at bringing in that player fans would be interested in seeing and blew it by allowing Billy Knight to draft guys who should be playing in Europe or the D-League. The man had not one, not two, but FIVE LOTTERY PICKS and could only find one guy who could play (Horford). The fact that he still had an access badge to enter team headquarters the day after drafting Marvin says more about the franchise than any court case with Belkin ever could.
That’s why folks stay away from the arena. That’s why you don’t hear their names talked about in a positive light when you go into a bar or a barber shop and the NBA is being mentioned. That’s why many folks have thrown up their hands, went to Foot Locker, and started buying Laker, Celtic, Knick, and Heat gear. This franchise is good for making the playoffs but as we all know, the archenemy of greatest is the satisfaction of being good. And this team is in love with being good like a virgin is in love with her hubby on her wedding night.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Bogut.Leuer
December 19th, 2011
3:38 pm
Bill Russell’s prime was played on a stacked team in an 8 team league.
I’m sure if we eliminated 22 other teams and thier players from existence Lebron would have had a title by now.
Also Amare is 1 dimensional.
Bird was a 6′10 guard who shot 3s and had the 1 legged Dirk fadeaways post up .
Bird was Frankenstein sized and skilled player on the wing.
Amare was a certifiable HoFer caliber before the injuries. He still probably is, but he’s just a scorer at this point.
Billups – shooter
Iguodala – defensive star and star slasher
Granger – shooter
Amare – gunner
Chandler – athletic rebounder and low usage scorer (Dalembert, Bogut, Okafor)
I think that would have been around 60 million last year. Defense backbone + 1 star scoring
Heck you could do Thaddeus Young.
Billups, Iguodala, Thaddeus Young, Amare Stoudemire, Dalembert
Carmelo and Amare was a gaffe. I guess they just saw counters to Bosh and Lebron. Now you have 2 redundant players and need to find defensive stars to surround them.
Chandler is not enough for both of them.
Carmelo’s WS/48 last year fell to 15%. Amare was 15%/ Horford was 18%.
The questions are A) can you build a team/offense around Horford a rebounder, and passer with unagressive scoring identity. B) is it easier to get defense and mix in offense.
Billups, Iguodala, Thaddeus Young, Amare Stoudemire, Dalembert
Teague, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Jon Leuer, Andrew Bogut
You don’t need fake “superstars”. You need * man to man single coverage ability (ie Marion vs Durant) * rim protection (ie Garnett+Perkins) * elite shot/double team creation (Rondo, Joe Johnson, Teague, Pierce)
* 3-pointers FTA, offensive rebounds
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Bogut.Leuer
December 19th, 2011
3:41 pm
Them’s the facts. They had their shot at bringing in that player fans would be interested in seeing and blew it by allowing Billy Knight to draft guys who should be playing in Europe or the D-League. The man had not one, not two, but FIVE LOTTERY PICKS and could only find one guy who could play (Horford). The fact that he still had an access badge to enter team headquarters the day after drafting Marvin says more about the franchise than any court case with Belkin ever could.
That’s why folks stay away from the arena. That’s why you don’t hear their names talked about in a positive light when you go into a bar or a barber shop and the NBA is being mentioned. That’s why many folks have thrown up their hands, went to Foot Locker, and started buying Laker, Celtic, Knick, and Heat gear. This franchise is good for making the playoffs but as we all know, the archenemy of greatest is (complacency).
============
ROUND…OF…APPLAUSE.
Ken Strickland
December 19th, 2011
3:44 pm
JOE.JEFF.ETC-Stop making so many doggone excuses. You didn’t know a thing about what JSmith was during this off season, especially him losing weight, until the CBA agreement was approved. Face it, when it comes to Horford, YOU’RE NOTHING BUT A HATER, and incapable of coming up with an intelligent assessment of him whatsoever. Here are just a couple of examples of how weak you HORFORD HATING BS has become.
1-You said, “A 3POINT SHOOTER PULLS DEFENDER AWAY FROM THE BASKET. Who in the hell, besides you of course, would be dumb enough to classify Horford as a 3 pt shooter?
2-You said, “HORFORD’S SCORING RATE IS TERRIBLE BECAUSE HE’S 1 DIMENSIONAL”. If you think Horford is 1 dimensional offensively, HOW IN THE HELL WOULD YOU CLASSIFY NOAH AND CHANDLER’S OFF SKILLS? Are you that dilusional and full of hate?
3-You said, “-ALSO JOSH SMITH HAS LITTLE TO NO SKILLS “DOWN LOW”. Now how dumb is that statement? In your warped mind, you think it’s perfectly logical for JSmith to take illadvised jumpshots because, as you said, he has little to no skills down low.. Well, this may come as a shock to your dilusional mind, but he damned sure doesn’t have any outside shooting skills either.
4-Now this involves the use of some common sense, so you will probably have difficulty comprehending this, but here goes anyway. Why would you classify AHorford as a 3pt shooter, but not JSmith, who’s probably taken more 3pt shoots in one gm than Horford has taken in any season of his entire NBA career?
Your basketball IQ, and comprehensive ability are seriously deficient.
doc
December 19th, 2011
3:44 pm
o’b a carry ove from last blog; if we had gotten stuckey we wouldnt have paid bibby over 15 mil a year that some still think worthy nor have had to get rid of him at a high price. that was one of the worst pick ups just behind getting marvin who would have necessitated paying paul in the long run and given us a chance to pick something other than stuckey. then sending off chills for nothing, wasting a 6 pick. gearon still didnt answer why it took five years to get where the okc franchise did in three and we had a chance at a no 2 draft pick as well but went with marvin, before he answers it with bs. finally does he and the basg still really take credit for dismantling a team down to bare necessities and bringing it back from 13 wins? ludicrous, i think ando as our gm would have done a better job and he is much more on record for what could have been done prior to drafts than the basg are afterwards.
sorry, guys on the way to work this am, i came in with two thoughts. the team has peaked in the fall and winter of woody’s last year and until it competes every night it cant really be considered a contender. for all the hype about miami not winning, they and chitown brought it every night and the point differentials show it. that is also what i am basing my comments on peaking. remember, there was a time that year we were right up there with the best of them for point dif as we were playing really good d and oportunistic o? somehow they have got to get back to that formula if they want to be considered more than pretenders.
astro, i think samuel has gone fishing. maybe it is with his “my boy rick”
i_am_soulstar
December 19th, 2011
3:47 pm
Each of those guys can sit on a unicorn’s horn.
“Until I see Amare, Melo, CP3, Deron, D12, etc. win something, I won’t spend my days wondering “what if”.
Amen.
Astro Joe
December 19th, 2011
3:50 pm
doc, still don’t see how Stuckey is much different than Mike James.
Slimjr
December 19th, 2011
3:55 pm
@Doc it appears from Gearon’s interview that he is not interested in a contender because it would cost mpre than he is willing to spend(LT)..
He just wants us to be entertained……
Slimjr
December 19th, 2011
3:55 pm
more^^^
darrell starks
December 19th, 2011
3:56 pm
Winning make you a superstar, just take a look at Pistons in early 2000.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 19th, 2011
4:00 pm
The team we have can win if coach right, Hawks having talent and playing together as team can make you a winner.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
December 19th, 2011
4:00 pm
Didn’t Gearon and his boys just lay down 2 millie on their new Steak House Restaurant called Reds?
Like DMB said in a previous blog that money could have been well spent on ballers that can take this team to the ECF.. We’ve already eaten before going down to Phillips…..Sheesh!
superiorblogman
December 19th, 2011
4:07 pm
I could care less about this blog MC. You better take this shi… down by gametime
Dejay
December 19th, 2011
4:09 pm
As I stated a million times, the object of professional sports is to win world titles. As fans, we could care less about the bottom line, profit margins, or how much they clear per home game. Give me a team that does whatever’s necessary to hold up the big belt at the end of the season.
Think about this; the Falcons haven’t won a playoff game since January 2005 and are thought of in a wayyyyyyyyyy higher light than the Hawks. And wonder as to why that is? Could it be because the Falcons have someone in charge who put his $$$ where his mouth is and allows his front office to do whatever it takes to get to the promised land (Julio Jones trade ring a bell?) while the other sit on their hand and openly complain about the local media and the gate? Even when moves don’t pan out, Blank and Co. keeps different plates spinning in order to keep us excited about his product. There are fans in this town who think they have a shot at winning in the playoffs this year (including this one). The Hawks? It’s safe to conclude that even the most myopic Hawks fan will say that the second round is about the best they can do, which is no better than what Roundfield’s squads, the Nique era, and the Steve Smith/Mookie/Deke teams did. Again, what’s changed?
I just would’ve thought that of all people, Gearon would’ve known better. I thought that after watching Stan Kasten sit on his hands and cry salary cap in the later years of the Nique years while countless teams passed them by, he would’ve known better than to do the same. After watching folks tune out the Braves after they became satisfied with division titles instead of running folks out of town like the Yankees and Red Sox did (only to win titles after doing so), he would’ve caught on. I guess I was wrong…
O'Brien
December 19th, 2011
4:14 pm
AJ,
“Until I see Amare, Melo, CP3, Deron, D12, etc. win something, I won’t spend my days wondering “what if”..
The ASG’s goal is to bring you an entertaining product that makes the playoffs. What would be more entertaining than seeing CP3 throwing lobs to Josh? How about Teague throwing lobs to Dwight? Or Amare’ dunking on people coming down the lane?
Even if the ceiling is the same (second round), having the superstars would make it a more entertaining product.
MB in SC
December 19th, 2011
4:21 pm
I’m curious as to who has a favorable opinion of Chris Webber. I couldn’t care less what he says about Atlanta or the Hawks; the guy is simply a narcissistic loser.
O'Brien
December 19th, 2011
4:28 pm
I think where Doc is coming from is if the Hawks had drafted Stuckey (instead of ACie), then the need might not have been there to trade for Mike Bibby and his $15 mil contract…which eventually led to us resigning him…and eventually trading 2 first round picks to get rid of him.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2011
4:37 pm
While Stuckey has certainly panned out better than Acie, I don’t see what’s so great about him either. To me he is a bench player on a good team. He’s a point guard who can’t shoot or pass efficiently.
PMC
December 19th, 2011
4:46 pm
I wonder if we could find a world class General Manager next time.
That might be the biggest signing in team history.
The past GM’s are inglorious.
Ra'mon
December 19th, 2011
4:47 pm
O’brien, you could say that. But then you could say if the Hawks had drafted Roy, then there would be a $67 million dollar contract on the shelf to a player who couldn’t perform the last 2-3 seasons.
Astro Joe
December 19th, 2011
4:51 pm
OB, yes, but there is NO way to guarantee that a more entertaining player would land here. Yes, BK should have had the vision that the league would soon be dominated by PGs who could score like Steve Francis but could still drop 8+ assists. But in 2005, NO ONE had seen that type of player since maybe Isiah Thomas (or Kevin Johnson for 2-3 seasons).
Bottom line, if Atlanta fans are supposed to sit here and wait for a superstar to materialize (and considering the low number of them and their recent desire to band together), I think we’ll be waiting for a long time. Add the right role players and a quality head coach to the mix and we could potentially be more competitive, win more games and have a little more post-season success. Or we can pout and cry over 6-7 year old spilled (and now quite sour) milk.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Bogut.Leuer
December 19th, 2011
4:59 pm
I have a favorable opinion of Chris Webber and the greats he competed against.
- Stop making so many doggone excuses. You didn’t know a thing about what JSmith was during this off season, especially him losing weight, until the CBA agreement was approved.
I didn’t KNOW what he was doing. Yet I said he SHOULD lose weight and focus on playing inside and defend 3s.
And yet and all he did all those things. Either I’m Negrodamus or I’m Smith’s agent (I’m not) or I know a little something about basketball. Moron.
YOU’RE NOTHING BUT A HATER, and incapable of coming up with an intelligent assessment of him whatsoever. Here are just a couple of examples of how weak you HORFORD HATING BS has become.
1-You said, “A 3POINT SHOOTER PULLS DEFENDER AWAY FROM THE BASKET.
Ken, Who in the hell, besides you of course, would be dumb enough to classify Horford as someone who pulls people away from the basket ie a 3 pt shooter.
Okur is a stretch 5. What Horford is doing is not stretching the floor. Playoff defenders can obviously help and recover to Horford in time to hinder his shot.
Horford worked on his 3 pt shot to try to diversify his offense and help the team, yet he’s not comfy doing it yet. How many years should we wait till he becomes a stretch player? 2 years? 3 years.
If we need a knockdown perimeter 4 then TRADE HORFORD.
2- If you think Horford is 1 dimensional offensively, HOW IN THE HELL WOULD YOU CLASSIFY NOAH AND CHANDLER’S OFF SKILLS? Are you that dilusional and full of hate?
3- In your warped mind, Ken, you THINK I said Josh Smith should take 3 pointers and ill advised jumpers because, as I said, he has little to no skills down low.
But in reality Josh Smith should
A) stay inside and offensive rebound
B) set elbow pick and rolls with JJ
C) hang on the baseline and elbow where he gets easy lanes to dunk off of guard work
D) use his PERIMETER size to CLOG THE PASSING LANE; SF wing defense
E) Keep the ability to hit a 15 foot stop and pop jumpshot. Hang around the box. The painted area.
This is some of what he did when he dropped 24 on Lebron’s Cavaliers a while back. If Marvin were a competent pull up shooter and you stuck Josh in the wing for transition and guarding Lebron we could have won that series.
Go back and reread Ken Strickland. You are the one who said Horford stretches the floor. I said perimeter players ie 3 point shooters stretch the floor.
Horford is not stretching the floor. neither is Smith, and yes Smith is a Power Forward in a SF’s body but at least he can slash and shoot off the dribble. And at least the SF has the ability to play the wing, and get easy run outs in transition.
Horford’s halfcourt ability is underwhelming. If you want to question Tyson Chandler, the classic defensive center and high % finisher role player, go look at his FG% his offensive rating.
Oh yeah and he has a title ring. You think Horford would have been able to defend and outrebound and dunk all over the 7′1 Bynum to the title?
He would have been giving layup lines and focused on how many jumpers he and Dirk could get.
Horford vs Chandler’s FTA disparity is serious and its the sole reason why Horford will never be a 1 on 1 superstar. FTAs.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2011
5:00 pm
“Or we can pout and cry over 6-7 year old spilled (and now quite sour) milk.”
But nobody is pouting. There are two kinds of basketball fans in Atlanta. There’s the group to which all of us on this blog belong; we complain but continue to be Hawks fans despite their years of ineptitude and underachievement. Then there’s the group who wear the other team’s jerseys in Philips Arena and pull for the other team. It’s not really a question of pouting. It’s a question of marketing and growing the fan base, getting that second group of fans to join us, and that’s not going to happen if the Hawks don’t learn from and correct their litany of past mistakes.
Just Joe
December 19th, 2011
5:22 pm
Jannero Pargo signing one year deal in Atlanta.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Bogut.Leuer
December 19th, 2011
5:34 pm
Jannero Pargo.
Y’all happy? Because with all these mediocre backups, instead of spark players, littering the bench I know there’s going to be some mediocrity followed by some locker room infighting.
1 year deals = ulterior motives ie next contract, not championship:
This is what Stephen Jackson said at MILWAUKEE BUCKS media day |
If guys come in here not focused on a championship, just making the playoffs, we need to trade them. We need to be talking about championship and nothin’ else. You can’t limit yourself to just playoffs. Who wants to do that? Playoffs is not really an achievement to me. Anybody can get to the playoffs.”
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2011
5:34 pm
Pargo is a good signing if we are getting the 2006 version. It’s been a while since he did anything meaningful in the NBA, though.
Mike
December 19th, 2011
5:34 pm
When you get stuff like this, then we need to understand that a change needs to happen.
2. Which team deserves the worst grade this offseason?
Rob Peterson, Hardwood Paroxysm: Atlanta. Did the Hawks move to Winnipeg with the Thrashers? Five years ago, I never thought I’d write this, but Tracy McGrady is a downgrade from Jamal Crawford. And Vlad Rad? Because you absolutely, positively need 15 minutes from a guy who shoots only 3s. With a chance to build upon their first-round upset of the Magic and with much of the league in flux, the Hawks did nothing to improve.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Bogut.Leuer
December 19th, 2011
5:38 pm
wow Stephen Jackson is also a rapper. Did not know that. And apparently also suwoopin. Did not know that.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2011
5:39 pm
Mavs sign Sean Williams. Just thought I would post that here to let Worldwide Clyde know.
Astro Joe
December 19th, 2011
5:47 pm
Najeh, I agree, having a superstar equals more fan interest, and that is about all it means. And having more fan support could lead to higher revenue, more spending, more team success, etc. Or it could mean we become the T’wolves with KG, the Jazz with Deron, the Hornets with CP3 or the Nuggets with Melo.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
December 19th, 2011
5:48 pm
Sean Williams will be comeback player of the year Najeh. We should have signed him instead of drafting Benson.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Bogut.Leuer
December 19th, 2011
5:49 pm
^^ Or Orlando with Dwight.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Bogut.Leuer
December 19th, 2011
5:50 pm
More from Reggie Miller: “The Hawks aren’t even on anyone’s radar for free agency. You give one guy, Tracy McGrady, the [former] scoring champion, a one-year minimum contract. That lets you know the state of the Hawks right there.”
FML
Falcons4Eva
December 19th, 2011
5:53 pm
To Najeh Davenpoop / December 19th, 2011 2:28 pm
Classic! LMFAO.
You need to start your own Hawks blog. Most of the stuff you post are right on point. Hilarious. You are quickly becoming ASG top antagonist.
The comments you posted in response to MCs interview with Gearon was PRICELESS!
Rod from College Park
December 19th, 2011
5:55 pm
I like the Pargo signing, if true. He is a solid backup.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 19th, 2011
6:09 pm
Joe.jeff.smith,
I’ll give you my 2003 Glenn Robinson jersey if you stop with these Charles Dickens novel-length posts. hot damn bro.
FFS
“Remember Holocaust. remember 9/11. But remember slavery too, remember I am Legend.”
ArtMan
December 19th, 2011
6:15 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
Mavs sign Sean Williams. Just thought I would post that here to let Worldwide Clyde know.
Wrong Sean Williams. They signed Shawne Williams out of Memphis not Sean Williams from Boston College. He is presently playing with Maccabi Haifa B.C. in Israel.
doc
December 19th, 2011
6:16 pm
najeh, we dont even have a proven exception to how you describe stuckey. teague still has a lot to prove over a season, not just a series in a playoff.
LOL
December 19th, 2011
6:18 pm
I like how also the hawks want to “help the people of atlanta” by buying the tolls for a bunch of rich people that don’t need it, nor will show up to see them play anyway for it. These guys have no fing clue…
Maybe
December 19th, 2011
6:24 pm
PARGO!??? He’s 32 and donal sloan looks like a beast…Id rather go with youth. We need prospects. Besides, Isn’t his wife on basketball wives or something? We don’t need to bring that circus to town.
superiorblogman
December 19th, 2011
6:25 pm
Another bad signing by Hawks it’s the wrong Pargo. His younger brother is better than any backup we have in Wanamaker and Sloan. Furthermore, Keith Bogans is greater than all
northcyde
December 19th, 2011
6:25 pm
ArtMan
December 19th, 2011
6:15 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
Mavs sign Sean Williams. Just thought I would post that here to let Worldwide Clyde know.
Wrong Sean Williams. They signed Shawne Williams out of Memphis not Sean Williams from Boston College. He is presently playing with Maccabi Haifa B.C. in Israel.
*************
Nope. . . . they signed the Sean Williams that played at Boston College . . who played with the Nets 2 years ago.
Truth B Known
December 19th, 2011
6:26 pm
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Bogut.Leue
I couldnt agree more. Horford Sucks!
Keep up the good work. Your points are on point.
Let your haters be your motivators.
northcyde
December 19th, 2011
6:26 pm
(( After securing his release from Israeli club Maccabi Haifa over the weekend, Williams is scheduled to arrive in Dallas in time to complete his physical and join the team Wednesday after the Mavericks’ preseason finale in Oklahoma City. ))
Maybe
December 19th, 2011
6:27 pm
JJ had something to do with this i’m sure. He and pargo played at Arkansas together smh… Dude had knee surgery last year -____-
Michael Cunningham
December 19th, 2011
6:29 pm
new blog is posted. shutting down this thread.
Truth B Known
December 19th, 2011
6:29 pm
“I’ll give you my Ken Strickland my Jason Terry jersey if he stops the dissertations… my Goodness this is a blog page.
NBA: Walker’s 18 points lift Bobcats past Hawks, 79-77 – Newnan Times-Herald | Basketball News Pro
December 20th, 2011
6:06 am
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