Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 10
The Hawks ranked 16th among NBA teams in defensive efficiency last season.
Some of their defensive category ranks, according to Hoopdata: 12th in opposing true-shooting percentage (53.7); fourth in opposing 3-point percentage (33.8); 22nd in opposing assist rate (20.98); 29th in opposing turnover rate (12.29), 11th in defensive rebounding rate (74.57); 24th in block rate (12.3); third in opposing free-throw rate (27.4), meaning they sent opponents to the line at the third-lowest rate in the league; and 29th in defensive plays rate (blocks, steals and charges).
More than a few of those numbers could be interpreted as a lack of aggressive defense by the Hawks. I’m looking at the opposing turnover rate, the block rate (and, by extension, the defensive plays rate) and the opposing assist rate.
Larry Drew said he’s changing the defensive approach.
“We are doing some things differently this year,” Drew said. “One, you have to be in shape. Two, you have to play with energy. We are doing some things where we are flying around a little bit more and guys are picking it up fast, which is important because to play defense you have to all be on a string.”
How would he describe the new strategy?
“Being a little more of the aggressor,” he said. “Go out and dictate, be the initiator. It’s like boxing. We don’t want to be a counter-puncher. Dictate the pace, dictate the rhythm.”
Does that mean more ball pressure, more stalking the passing lanes?
“That’s all part of it, too,” he said. “But we are doing some things defensively to energize us more. Not just sticking with your basic principles on defense. We are trying to do some things that will energize us.”
Does he hope the Hawks collect more steals, force a faster pace?
“It’s kind of a combination,” Drew said. “It’s certainly to change the pace and the rhythm of the game. Steals? Yeah, some, but I would rather be a defensive team that can disrupt and then we come up with the rebound. Steals, kind of the tendency is more to gamble. Defensively, I want to be solid and allow our team to dictate the rhythm and the pace of the game.”
It sounds to me like Drew essentially wants the Hawks to compete harder on D. That’s more of a philosophy or style than a strategy, but I’m curious to see how it looks.
This is how Jeff Teague described the new approach:
“I think we are trying to speed people up. We are rushing people off the 3-point line. We are trying to make a lot of effort. Last year somebody got an open three, we just let them have the open three. This year we are closing out and trying to make everybody drive to the basket.”
Does it mean he will pressure the ball more?
“Yeah, more picking up full court,” he said. “It’s going to be tiring. That’s what you play for. You’ve got to be in shape.”
Al Horford described the new defensive approach like this:
“[Drew] just wants to be more aggressive defensively. I think in the past we’ve been passive and just let the offense come to us instead of forcing the tempo. It’s going to be a challenge with the shortened season but I think we can do it. It’s about bringing the right energy.”
Drew said his players have embraced the changes.
“They are very, very receptive,” he said. “I understand that in being that kind of defensive team, you have got to have the right personnel to do it. You have got to have guys that are energy guys. But again you’ve got to pick and choose times and spots. That will be something we try to really harp on with these guys when we do change defensive strategy.”
Camp report
- Drew said he’s likely to open vs. Charlotte with Teague, Horford, Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams and Josh Smith. Before the team left for Charlotte today, Drew wasn’t sure which combinations he would use but said not everyone will play. A big focus will be evaluating Pape Sy, Brad Wanamaker and Donald Sloan.
- Horford said Jason Collins “is in the best shape in three years.” Does he think that means the Hawks could expand the use of the “big” lineup? “I think so,” Horford said. “And I think Zaza [Pachulia] is someone who has kind of slipped through the cracks. He’s been active, playing in Turkey. I think he’s going to help is with that big lineup.”
- Collins (knee) and Magnum Rolle (foot) returned to practice Sunday. Drew wasn’t sure if he would hold them out.
- Horford on the value of playing a game: “I think the jelling, it’s been happening a little bit. But I think with the veterans we have, when the games start we will be able to do more of that. I think we will be fine.”
- Teague also said he’s ready to “see how we look” and noted that he’s always gone all out for exhibition games:” “I always had to show people and come off the bench and impress them in the preseason. So it’s the same for me.”
- With just two exhibition games to get ready, maybe his veteran teammates will follow his lead. “We have less time to prepare so we have to go out and treat it like a regular game,” Horford said. I’m skeptical because of my memories of the Hawks tanking once they clinched their seed late last season. Then again, they did “flip the switch” in the playoffs so maybe we’ll see the real thing tomorrow.
- Teague on running the team: “For me, it’s always going to be about getting my scorers off early. If I get them off early and get them rolling, they want to play defense. That makes my job a lot easier.”
- Horford said any Hawks who had to work into shape are there now: “LD took care of that.”
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95 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
December 18th, 2011
10:15 pm
“This year we are closing out and trying to make everybody drive to the basket.”
Hard to do that consistently when you only have one player on the team who challenges shots at the rim. If Smoove is on the bench, I can see this strategy backfiring.
BEN
December 18th, 2011
10:15 pm
first.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 18th, 2011
10:16 pm
““Yeah, more picking up full court,” he said. “It’s going to be tiring. That’s what you play for. You’ve got to be in shape.””
Hard to do that consistently when you are playing five games in six nights because of the compressed schedule, even if everyone is in shape, and especially when depth is a problem.
TT
December 18th, 2011
10:19 pm
Will t-mac play tomorrow?
Macaroni Tony
December 18th, 2011
10:21 pm
I ready to see some Hawks basketball
Grandmaster JeJe
December 18th, 2011
10:24 pm
Players always say “we will be fine” or “I like what we got.”
Is ANYONE ON THIS TEAM ever going to come out and say “we are sick of losing in the 2nd round. It is time to COMPETE FOR A RING???”
Saying “it is time to take the next step” doesnt mean anything. To Sund, that probably means taking the 2nd round opponent to seven games rather than six.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 18th, 2011
10:24 pm
FIRE GEARON
KevinM
December 18th, 2011
10:26 pm
Hawks on NBA-TV tomorrow night at 7 for all those not aware.
Gives us a chance to see if they will go full speed for an exhibition.
hawks_4_life
December 18th, 2011
10:28 pm
MC,
You need two things, a raise and a day off.
Truth B Told
December 18th, 2011
10:30 pm
Well good break down of numbers that matter. Unfortunately we’ve known that for some time. Ironically its defense that gives you the best chance to win the game. Out side of Josh, no one else really has an attitude to take pride in defense, and a certain player who starts in the middle is actually allergic to defense.
You know what. Im not going to tip toe around this.
Al Horford. own the Center position, stop with all the requests and hints about playing another position. Own the position. Be a beast on defense or get the hell on.
bigdave
December 18th, 2011
10:37 pm
hard to pressure the ball and make entry passes tough with Bibby and Crawford defensing the point of attack..
KevinM
December 18th, 2011
10:39 pm
Hey LD, don’t wear out Jeff in the first week of the season.
Full court pressure? This I gotta see…
A concerned fan..
December 18th, 2011
10:43 pm
I feel sorry for the people who cannot watch because they did not subscribe to more channels.
Big Ray
December 18th, 2011
10:53 pm
I think I understand what Drew wants to do here, but I also get the feeling we are trying to compensate for lack of rim defense, as Najeh already said.
Still, look at the Bulls. They managed to play that kind of defense and nobody on that team was a “real” shotblocker. What they did was challenge positions, challenge passing lanes, and challenge all shots, whether on the perimeter or near the basket.
As we all know, challenging shots and blocking shots are two different things. The first will help you win games, the second is something that is good to have, but often is a cover or cleanup for lack of ability to accomplish the first.
And that’s what we’ve been doing with Josh Smith. We can’t continue to let him do the bulk of our defense for us.
jlewis
December 18th, 2011
10:56 pm
Great article MC on why players dont come to ATL. I hope it will serve as a reference point for everyone that screams “why dont we dump JJ or Josh for x player”. Also, I agree with Gearon on the fact that no one appreciates JJ’s professionalism, no complaints and how hard he works. The players do all they can, for us old heads, they didnt come even when the human highlight was holding court. Great job MC.
Macaroni Tony
December 18th, 2011
10:59 pm
@jlewis I agree with you 100%, that was a good article. Although I would like to see some more veterans flocking to our Hawks, for some reason they want come. JJ was the only person that came to the Hawks, and he is still here.
joshau
December 18th, 2011
11:00 pm
My guess is Tmac and few other vets will be rested so the younger guys get an honest evaluation of where their game is at right now..
Grandmaster JeJe
December 18th, 2011
11:05 pm
MC,
You need two things, a raise and a day off.
******
this is NBA season. There are no days off. FIRE
KEEP IT up MC
FIRE SUND.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 18th, 2011
11:05 pm
*FIRE ASG
Grandmaster JeJe
December 18th, 2011
11:08 pm
In regard to T-Mac, I might even sit him out the whole exhibition. He should be with the trainers all day making sure he is in prime shape. He worked hard over the summer and has been a top player in the league. No need to burn him out vs that Charlotte squad.
BTW that team stinks. MJ is an awful owner. He is better than ASG because he is MJ and they are DKBASG
Grandmaster JeJe
December 18th, 2011
11:10 pm
If we are not looking to add a veteran, based on the Hawks’ Guards Eyeing Exhibitom article, it looks like Stack WON’T be on our team this year.
FIRE SUND
Volman
December 18th, 2011
11:13 pm
Why are my messages being deleted? Grandmaster Jeje, you need to shut your trap man. All you have done on here is complain.
And hello to all of the REGULARS from the Salim Staudamire days. I hope you all are doing well! (Big Ray, Mykhalc, Ken Strickland, etc)
Go Hawks! I will see you guys when we are in San Antonio!
Slimjr
December 18th, 2011
11:25 pm
Somebodys got to protect the RIM/Paint????
Who will it be Mr ALL NBA AL?
Rev in Tampa
December 18th, 2011
11:28 pm
Drew’s description of the Hawks new commitment to defense did not exactly fill me with confidence that they will significantly improve their energy and efficiency.
Actually I think the Hawks will improve on defensive efficiency because of Teague and the absence of Jamal, but not because of some new masterplan on defense. But we will see…
Slimjr
December 18th, 2011
11:30 pm
Wow did Miami look good tonight!!!
Dismantled the Magic like I devour a slice of Cheese cake! Yum!!! lol
Slimjr
December 18th, 2011
11:36 pm
Memo to coach Drew. Ah your squad did not have to try and make everyone drive to the rim last season cause the opposing players did so at will with little resistance..@#$%^&
That one’s already been tried…..SHEESH!!!!!!!!!!
Next plan please? Wow……….
Ra'mon
December 18th, 2011
11:37 pm
If you think about it, this will be the FIRST season in how long where Joe gets to guard the 2- guard and not the point guard! This will leave him with more energy to perform on the offensive end, and it will give him an edge in guarding his guy, because they’re not quicker than the point guard he normally trails.
tjhook
December 18th, 2011
11:49 pm
More defensive energy . . . initiators?! On a Larry Drew-led team?! Unless I see a trade of Marvin Williams, I don’t see it happening. Once again, let’s trade Marvin for an energy guy (Josh Childress or Richard Jefferson). I bought the jersey (a Joe Johnson) so give me the business (entertaining basketball).
Slimjr
December 18th, 2011
11:57 pm
Coach speak= “I got my fingers crossed”….
doc
December 19th, 2011
12:06 am
you dont have to do the shot blocking NOR STEALS TO DISRUPT BY PLAYING GOOD DEFENSE, WHICH REALLY MEANS TAKING SPACE. opps on the caps guys …. taking space is what the good defensive teams do; like boston, miami and the bulls in the east. if they can do that that it is good enough, increased pressure and aggressiveness is nothing more than taking what is yours and not being complacent to allow the other guy to make the first move, which is the counter puncher idea LD came up with. it also means you dont have to knock out the other guy with each possesion.
volman bro, what are you doing out west and what do they say about the spurs?
Carrlos Lyles
December 19th, 2011
12:15 am
I like drew he understands that the hawks are so versatile that speeding teams up can work.. lets hope that everybody buys into the system..
Reality Check
December 19th, 2011
12:19 am
“Players always say “we will be fine” or “I like what we got.”
Is ANYONE ON THIS TEAM ever going to come out and say “we are sick of losing in the 2nd round. It is time to COMPETE FOR A RING???”…”
Grandmaster Jeje,
I was going to same the same thing, but then I realized that ASG never says it either. No mandates = no accountability.
Slimjr
December 19th, 2011
12:24 am
You have to be hard nose to play that way. Mr softie wont work in this new scheme Mr Drew has devised. Also its takes incredible energy and a deep bench to pull it off. Some players will get into foul trouble trying to play overly aggressive in this new defensive matrix. But if you had that shot blocker/ intimidator back there, that would take tremendous pressure off of your perimeter defenders? I’m just saying…
shady 2.0
December 19th, 2011
12:42 am
tell yall the truth i m sick and tired of you people keep hating on AJC and owners and GM and coach and players.. i mean damn how abt just support them instead criticizing in every blog.. i remember when we used to 20 to 30 games every season..
moboman
December 19th, 2011
12:54 am
someones gonna have to step up and score Jamals points.
superiorblogman
December 19th, 2011
12:57 am
Slimjr,PointGuardSlim,JonLuer,etc. Leave Al alone.
Teague on running the team: “For me, it’s always going to be about getting my scorers off early. If I get them off early and get them rolling, they want to play defense. That makes my job a lot easier.”
Well, I hope you stick to trying to get others involved instead of just running to the rim and trying to score yourself. I like Teague and the Hawks as a whole. That bench is way too weak though. Zaza kills you on defense by not moving his feet, but Collins or Zaza needs to start and Marvin needs to go to the bench to make it stronger.
If you look at the scrimmage you saw a little trapping action about to happen when just came up one time to help Jeff pressure the ball. That is one advantage of playing Josh at PF even though I think he needs to be at SF. He is quick enough to help out Jeff in the backcourt and still get back to the PF. Actually, that is a advantage of playing Al at C if they use it. Good strategy Drew, you can make them take a couple more seconds of the clock in the backcourt than they like and that speeds them up a little. Hopefully, you can even do it some when they first pass halfcourt and make the PG give it to the PF or something and get them out of wack. I like the sound of that.
Looking forward 2 2morrow.
Grandad
December 19th, 2011
1:01 am
Najeh
Forcing teams to drive does not necessarily mean
allowing the opponent all the way to the rim.
Coach must have a plan;
e g when opponent drives – team needs to know –
are they going to force baseline or middle ?
Also are they going to help, jump, trap, etc.
All these factors play into his strategy / philosophy.
I like what MC said:
“It sounds more like a philosophy than a strategy”
-very perceptive-
Except; were it his philosophy, then why not a yr ago.
So, to me, it comes across as [just somethin' new] to “try”
in the absence of a legit Big.
I really do not see a defensive philosophy from LD other than
trying match-ups, personel wise.
Bottom line, this new pressure defense = smoke screen.
Sorry.
_____________________________________________
Ken Strickland
December 19th, 2011
1:26 am
LDrew it now implimenting DEF techniques that he knew he couldn’t utilize with Bibby and Jamal as his primary PGs, because both were total DEF liabilities. When your perimeter DEF is all but nonexistent, you had better have a solid interior DEF to compensate.
Rather than have our frontline collapse when someone blew by Bibby or Jamal, LDrew employed Woodson’s switching DEF approach. That approach often left our frontline players on the perimeter where they couldn’t collapse to protect much of anything.
When you have 2 PGs who employ a matador approach to playing DEF, shotblocking is almost a must. But teams with solid perimeter DEFs don’t need it. Everyone is all up in the air over C Tyson Chandler and his ability to protect the rim. Well, he averaged a total of 1.08BPG, and his backup, BHeywood averaged 1.03BPG.
Compare that to JSmith’s 1.56BPG, and AHorford’s 1.04BPG, and you see that their bigs didn’t do as well as ours at blocking shots and protecting the rim. However, unlike us, they had a solid perimeter DEF, so their Bigs usually had to protect the rim against the player(s) they were guarding. Now our Bigs, on the other hand, had the added burden of protecting the rim against whoever our PGs weren’t guarding.
Dallas finished in a 3 way tie for 23rd in blocked shots, yet they still managed to have a solid DEF and win an NBA title. The Hawks interior DEF will definitely improve with the absence of the 2 total DEF liabilities LDrew insisted on relying on at PG.
Grandad
December 19th, 2011
1:33 am
Ken Strickland
Good point my friend.
Truth B Told
December 19th, 2011
1:48 am
Its must be a brain fart or a burp but the reality is Josh had more block last year while playing out of the paint that Al had playing in the paint.
?
What I mean is when Josh was a full time PF he was above 2 blks per game and that doesnt count the altered Shots.
Then Al said let me play the PF and move Josh outside to the wing or the perimeter. Well even when Josh split time at the 4 he still posted better numbers than Al. We ever Al plays the 4 and Josh goes out side we are not at our best. Keep Smoove at the 4 and make Al man up and D at the 5
Unfortunately the above lunacy doesnt take into account that Woody lite doesnt have a clue about maximizing defensive opportunities nor Al’s unwillingness to play aggressive at the 5.
Al is one of the most defensive non-aggressive centers in the game.
and his attitude sucks.
Truth B Told
December 19th, 2011
1:49 am
whenever Al plays the 4
Grandad
December 19th, 2011
2:06 am
I miss you Hatter.
I really do.
I hope all is well.
superiorblogman
December 19th, 2011
3:29 am
Damn, XMAS i hate this bs holiday, but Merry XMas to all of you.
tjhook
December 19th, 2011
3:37 am
http://valleyofthesuns.com/2011/12/14/josh-childress-dialed-in-bounce-back-year/
Just wanted folks to see what is going on with Childress and the Suns. Translation: he is a misfit with that team, but would be a good fit for ours. Trade Marvin!
Grandmaster JeJe
December 19th, 2011
3:48 am
No thanks re: Chillz
No jumpshot, he is weak, and he is not a special player. I’d take Duck over Chillz. Great guy though
Grandmaster JeJe
December 19th, 2011
4:00 am
Bryant: “He’s very good. He’s a workaholic. He has an attention to detail. When you come to practice, he has a practice planned. He is prepared. Boom, boom, boom. He’s right at it. I’m learning new things every day. He doesn’t let anything slide. You’re learning right then and there. When you’re doing something wrong, he’s not going to sugarcoat it. He’s going to tell you how it is and I can respect that.”
******
Kobe talking about Coach Brown. I guess Brown let ish slide when he coached LeQuit
beejayrufino
December 19th, 2011
4:59 am
I’m excited to see the Hawks play tomorrow! Let’s go Hawks I think this season we will be great, especially the addition of veterans T-Mac and Vladi
terrell
December 19th, 2011
7:19 am
Letting people drive to the basket to get to Big Al? Uh oh.
terrell
December 19th, 2011
7:21 am
LD needs to stick to offense. Why not just let the opposing team take 3’s all day? Better than giving them a layup. lol
KevinM
December 19th, 2011
7:34 am
Duck over Chills? Now that’s 2 players that will not help this team much. We need more firepower than that.
And speaking of whether our team is good defensively, let’s look at stats against teams over .500. Does it still resonate that our backline has good enough numbers to win? We were part of so many blowouts last year, I lost count.
And on the LD being better to implement his defense now because Bibby is no longer here…….that statement has no basis. LD is the coach; he has the power to play who he wants. LD gets all the blame in my book for Bibby getting any minutes that exceeded Teague’s. LD told you himself Teague had to asset himself, but apparently LD didn’t see enough talent there to sit Bibby. So that can be put to rest.
Bibby is 1/2 the player that Teague is, yet the entire organization didn’t acknowledge it.
Our focus has not been about defense; now all of a sudden it will be our trademark? Oh yeah, I gotta see this.
Davario Smith
December 19th, 2011
7:34 am
Has Teagur gained any weight?
Ray
December 19th, 2011
8:14 am
I don’t think Teague needs to gain weight maybe muscle if that’s what you mean, but Teague’s only problem is his jump shot. All he has in his bag of tricks is the floater that’s not going to be enough in the future.
O'Brien
December 19th, 2011
8:26 am
FTPB,
Doc,
Your boy Stuckey is getting paid. 3 years $25 mil from the Pistons, while Acie might be on his way out of the league.
.
O'Brien
December 19th, 2011
8:31 am
I think having Teague as the starting PG will allow LD to approach defense differently than he did last year with Jamal and Bibby. Although Teague will get beat at times (he is still young and learning), his speed and energy will allow opportunities to recover.
That being said, I don’t think the team will be able to play it consistently, because of a compressed schedule and inexperienced depth behind Teague.
Astro Joe
December 19th, 2011
8:33 am
The best way to defend the rim is to move your feet (not based on a shot-blocker). Drew’s different approach to defense still sounds like a variation of “guard your man or else”. While Woody was focused on more effort, LD seems to be focused on better conditioning. Blocking out on the boards, communicating on screens, making the proper defensive rotation, playing in front of your man instead of trying for the steal from behind… that is about the neck up and not conditioning from the shoulders down. UGH!!!
Sautee
December 19th, 2011
8:33 am
KevinM,
Two things:
“Our focus has not been about defense; now all of a sudden it will be our trademark? Oh yeah, I gotta see this.”
First, did you read anywhere in MCs recap, any mention of defense now being our trademark? That’s quite a leap from “being more aggressive”.
Secondly, do you disagree that the Hawks should play D with more energy?
ntrigue
December 19th, 2011
8:43 am
Look forward to seeing how Teague matches up with kemba walker I’ll love to see them go at it!
The Truth
December 19th, 2011
9:08 am
“This is how Jeff Teague described the new approach:”
“Last year somebody got an open three, we just let them have the open three. This year we are closing out and trying to make everybody drive to the basket.”
With our frontline, is that a good thing?
J from the A
December 19th, 2011
9:25 am
I really look forward to Teague leading the team this year. As we all know, he will bring a better defensive game than we have seen from past guards (Bibby), and he brings an amazing level of quickness on both ends of the court.
However, in watching Teague last year, my major concern was not his shot, but rather his ability to make fairly routine (for a good PG) passes. I realize Teague had low TOs, so some might take this evidence that his passing is adequate, but I think his low TOs reflect that he would not even attempt to make the needed passes. (Some might interpret this as “good decision making”/”knowing the limits of his skills.” Fair enough, but if we expect Teague to help lead the Hawks pass the 2nd round, the “limits of his skills”, especially his ability to make the right pass, needs to expand.)
I look forward to the “new” Teague and the “new” Hawks.
Truth B Known
December 19th, 2011
9:31 am
“but Teague’s only problem is his jump shot.” – Ray
Teague’s Problem is not only his jump shot, but his shot selection, his inability to distribute the ball to the maximum benefit of the team and his propensity to turn the ball over, some of which was cause by his inexperience and youth but much of it was due to his inability to protect the ball and his lack of court vision. Finally, Teague doesnt understand the pro game enough to quarterback this team.
The new approach? Thats scary. forcing the opposition to beat you off the dribble and take it inside where Horford awaits?….. whats wrong with this picture?
I guess this is a que up for a Red Lobster commercial,
DUNK-FEST.
JT's Hoops Blog
December 19th, 2011
9:42 am
There’s no where else Atlanta can go. That team has reached its peak. It will be down hill from there.
Ken Strickland
December 19th, 2011
9:51 am
The HORFORD HATERS who insist on bashing and blaming him for anything and everything that was wrong with our DEF are perfect examples of the old saying, “IGNORANCE IS BLISS”. Here’s a comparison of the 2 centers that everyone would just love to trade him for. TChandler/YNoah/AHorford.
BPG-1.08/1.5/1.04, RPG-9.3/10.1/9.4, PPG-10.1/11.7/15.3, APG-.4/2.2/3.5, TPG-1.2/1.9/1.5, FPG-3.2/3.3/2.5, A/TO-.4/1.2/2.2, PER-18.4/18.8/20.8.
Looking at the statistical comparisons of these 3 players kind of puts things into perspective, for those who have a clue, and tells you why Horford is the Allstar. The only individual dvantage they seem to have over him are a few inches in height. And unlike Horford, they benefitted from playing on teams with solid PGs and perimeter DEFs. And you never saw them having to switch off on PGs or SGs.
I guess there are some who just can’t allow intelligence, common sense, or facts, to get in the way of their IGNORANCE and/or AGENDA. The combination of Teague, Sloan/Wanamaker/Sy/Hinrich, will comprise a solid perimeter DEF, which will be a 1st in JSmith’s and AHorford’s pro career. Anyone who can’t appreciate the importance and positive impact that a solid perimeter DEF can have on a teams frontline needs to reevaluate their basketball knowledge and/or IQ.
I like our bench, especially after Hinrich returns. Zaza and Twin gives us size, experience, aggressiveness and physicality. While we haven’t seen that much of Rolle, he appears to be a combination of former Hawks JPowell and HArmstrong, only better than both. TMac is a savy professional who still does everything well, if no longer in spectatular and dominant fashion.
Hinrich, as mister versatility, is the glue. Radmanovic is the stretch 3-4 we’ve never had before. Sloan or Wannamaker will be the 1st young inexperienced PG(s) to get a chance to play a significant role since before Woodson was hired. We won’t have a 6th man of the yr candidate on this yrs bench, but we’ll certainly have a lot more of what we need.
We can get a lot more out of Rolle and Radmanovic than we got out of HArmstong and EThomas. We’ll get a lot more out of TMac than we got out of DWilkins. And we’ll get a helluva lot more DEF, speed, and quickness, out of whatever combination we play at PG than we got out of the Bibby/Jamal PG combination. We’ll definitely be a serious playa in the East this yr.
PEDRO EL GITANO
December 19th, 2011
10:02 am
Si Drew quiere someter al equipo a una defensa extenuante T-Mac y Stackhouse pueden acusar el cansancio a medida que transcurra la temporada.Yo creo que lo unico a mejorar es el rebote defensivo para que Teague pueda cruzar la cancha como un relampago.Los centers altos contrarios nos dan problemas para ejecutar eso y se aprovechan de la escasez de centimetros de nuestro frontcourt para acribillarnos con palmeos faciles.Al menos eso era asi hasta la temporada pasada,en la que mejoramos un poco en esto utilizando a Collins de titular.Creo que Kito Benson puede hacer ese trabajo…si los prejuicios de Drew con los rookies se lo permiten.Otra cosa:las referencias que tengo sobre Charles Garcia son muy superiores a las de Rolle.En todo caso estare expectante de ver porque se ha garantizado contrato a este Magnum.Espero disfrutar esta noche contra Bobcats.Un abrazo a todos.
2 FOR JOHN DREW
December 19th, 2011
10:07 am
In training camp last year LD implemented ” A NEW PASSING OFFENSE” ….. This year “A NEW DEFENSE”. By the time regular season gets here, the guys will once again tuned LD out & do their own thing. I wouldn’t mind a Bill Laimbeer or Michael Cooper for coach. Men who exudes toughness, demand respect b/c they’ve been in the trenches of winning basketball.
Ken Strickland
December 19th, 2011
10:19 am
ASGTO JOE-NOW YOU’RE TALKING.
SAUTEE-For the past 5yrs our entire DEF philosophy and focus, as it were, was based on protecting against the totally nonexistent DEF of Bibby and FMurray/Jamal, not the opposition. Now that we have players, particularly PGs, who are ready, willing and able to assume the responsibility and put forth the effort to play DEF, Drew can now take this approach.
It’s not like Marvin, Josh and AL haven’t been doing their part. It’s just a matter of them no longer being required to constantly assume someone else’s DEF responsibility, in addition to their own. I believe that after spending their entire NBA careers having to compensate for others, they’ll be elated at the prospect of having their own individual DEF responsibilites as their main priority.
Everyone seems concerned about the effects this DEF approach will have on our guards. But what about the effects it will have on the opposition? With a guard rotation of Teague, JJ, Pape Sy, Sloan/Wanamaker, and even TMac, we’ll have the youth, stamina and depth to make it work without physically breaking down.
Besides, if we work hard defensively, and get deflections, steals and turnovers, as well as easier baskets on OFF, we should be able to get enough comfortable leads to allow our key players to get enough rest.
Ken Strickland
December 19th, 2011
10:29 am
LDrew said that some of our players either won’t play, or will get limited mins. He basically indicated that he will use this gm to evaluate our young guards, and maybe Benson and Rolle. Having 4 core starters and 5 bench players returning, who already knows our OFF/DEF systems and terminology, allows him the opportunity to use preseason gms to evaluate, rather than simply teach and instruct, like he had to do last yr.
MsDee
December 19th, 2011
10:39 am
Preach Ken
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Bogut.Leuer
December 19th, 2011
10:40 am
Slimjr is not the same poster as me. Lol My patient is weaning thin on the Hawks decision to retain . Al “Okafor” Horford
vava74
December 19th, 2011
10:40 am
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/chris-paul-trade-to-los-angeles-clippers-shows-nba-still-has-major-problems-121511
ole richie
December 19th, 2011
10:53 am
rolle is horrible. watched him in the scrimmage didn’t wanna play much defense. The vets, stack rad tmac i think will actually contribute. hawks will be about as good as they have been the past few yrs.
SteveW
December 19th, 2011
10:55 am
Joe.Jeff. said, “My patient is weaning thin on the Hawks decision to retain . Al “Okafor” Horford”
Quick, Dept. of Unintended Irony, where are you?
O'Brien
December 19th, 2011
11:00 am
FTPB,
MC,
Gearon mentioned Deshawn Stevenson as one of the guys who put Dallas over the top. Given that he is a FA, maybe you can ask Gearon why they didn’t give Stevenson a call (since Gearon’s mantra is they will exceed the tax for a guy to put us over the top).
And for the record, I’m not saying Stevenson would put us over the top. I’m just curious as to what Gearon’s response would be to the question.
SteveW
December 19th, 2011
11:02 am
If we’re waiting for the Hawks to trade Al, we may be waiting a long time. I think he’s the face of the Hawks going forward until he retires.
And I think the group formerly known as ASG will get nervous about Josh’s contract situation, and trade him for value rather than risking losing him in free agency.
If they plan on keeping Josh Smith, they should open up contract negotiations NOW, right this minute. They can’t let the market set his price this time and expect to keep him. He’ll be gone. Let Josh know you want him, and want him to retire a Hawk, and give him a 4 year, 50 mill extension on his existing deal, or start to shop him I guess. Can’t let him walk for nothing.
O'Brien
December 19th, 2011
11:06 am
Troy Murphy is off the board. He signed a 1 year, $1.3 mil deal with the Lakers.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Bogut.Leuer
December 19th, 2011
11:10 am
Ken Strickland
“IGNORANCE IS BLISS” indeed. Are you suggesting Tyson = Al?
“J.J. is back now. The Hawks still plan to add more pieces, including a center. Al reiterated his stance that he prefers to play power forward but isn’t making any demands about switching positions.
“I’m fine with [center] but my natural position is obviously the four,” he said.”
Has Tyson ever asked that?
Carmelo Anthony is a gunner, worse rebounder, but more respected why? Because he is an elite shot creator. Tyson is a better rebounder, a better defender with his length and ADVANCED stats show that.
Assists per game? Teague a guy we are trying to groom into a point guard does not need Horford handling the ball or lollygagging and trailing. He needs automatic set feet shooters to drive and dish to when the double comes. Or at least a post presence whom he can play off of.
Horford stands at the top of the key and hits makes set play backdoor passes. Or leads the break, often to no avail. IE the travel against CHI. Unless you turn Marvin into Kevin Durant no one wants Al Horford leading the break, trying to be our point guard. No one runs with him, he can’t make the 2nd move to get all the way to the basket. Then he peters to the wing (where he cant make a play) waiting for a guard to catch up wasting clock, Ignorance is bliss.
Horford had 266 Assists last year and 188 FTA. 2704 minutes 20% offense usage
Tyson had 32 Assists last year and 295 FTA. 2095 minutes 14% offense usage
Tyson Chandler FG% 65.4%
Alicia 56%
I rather have an automatic 2 points from Tyson, and let Josh and Tyson operate inside. with a competent perimeter PF who can defend and make shots from range you also Raise Josh’s FG% by lowering his attempts with a competent scorer who can carry the burden .
* Al played 700 MORE MINUTES just to tie Tyson with shot blocks!
* Bogut beat them both with 1 hand.
Thabeet’s rookie year had a better foul rate than Horford. That is how horriflipping bad it has gotten Ken.
Tyson plays at the rim, grabs boards and gets fouled. The better the offense is (ie Dirk, Terry, Kidd draw a double, miss the shot, Tyson grabs the board and finishes)
DEFENSIVE RATING
Tyson = Defensively allowed 1.02 Points per Possessions (career high is .99)
Bogut = Defensively allowed 0.97 Points per Possessions (career high, previous high .97)
Dwight = Defensively allowed 0.94 Points per Possessions (career high, previous high .95)
JoshSmith = Defensively allowed 1.02 Points per Possessions (career high is 1.01)
Lebron = Defensively allowed 1.02 Points per Possessions (career high is .99)
Marion = Defensively allowed 1.03 Points per Possessions (career high is .93)
Al Ho. = Defensively allowed 1.05 Points per Possessions (career high is 1.04)
Zaza = Defensively allowed 1.05 Points per Possessions
Horford is a great man to man guy outside of guarding Bynum or Dwight but did you really think all these years Horford was the Hawks defensive bastion?
SMGDH. Yeah Al was the one breaking records for youngest shot blocker. Josh.Bogut.Leuer
Rev in Tampa
December 19th, 2011
11:14 am
2 FOR JOHN DREW,
You expressed my thoughts exactly as I read the article about the new emphasis on defense when you said, “In training camp last year LD implemented ‘A NEW PASSING OFFENSE’ ….. This year ‘A NEW DEFENSE’. By the time regular season gets here, the guys will once again tuned LD out & do their own thing.”
LD does not use strong, definitive words in his sentences. In fact I re-read what LD said to MC about the new commitment to defense. In FOUR SHORT PARAGRAPHS listen to the words and phrases he used:
LD used the phrase, “do/doing some things” 3 times.
LD used the phrase, “a little bit more” 2 times.
LD used the phrase, “kind of” 2 times.
The tone of these phrases suggests uncertainty and noncompulsory. I’m sure in LD’s mind there is certainty, but his words are not COMMANDING compliance and confidence. He leaves that little bit of wiggle room. And when the players are in crunch time and their legs are tired they will invariably find that small space of wiggle room that LD has afforded them. Then one instance turns into two instances, two instances into four, and a habit is formed.
That is what happened to the motion offense last year. The Hawks used it until some adversity arose and it disappeared. The Hawks players know they can tune LD out without consequences. They decided to shut down their effort once they solidified their playoff seed last year. It was horribly embarrassing to LD and to the entire organization but LD was powerless to do anything about it.
I’m sure the players are embracing this new commitment to defense in the preseason and will play with enthusiasm as the season begins, but adversity will come. This is where the STRONG, COMMANDING, AUTHORATATIVE, ASSERTIVE LEADERSHIP will be required. I just don’t think LD is able to take the reigns.
In all candor, I believe the Hawks success in the playoffs should be attributed to Josh and Joe. I believe they were unwilling to be embarrassed again so they took the reigns of the team. I have no evidence to prove this except a gut feeling based on the FACT that LD had lost control of the team prior to the playoffs, yet when the playoffs arrived team leadership appeared from somewhere.
SteveW
December 19th, 2011
11:17 am
And what’s this deal about wanting to know if Gearon’s cash is leveraged? Once he’s made the cash, of which he’s made an enormous amount (good for him), who knows what he’s done with it? But it’s not leveraged in his company or debts best I can tell. Could be in Swiss bank accounts for all I know.
SteveW
December 19th, 2011
11:21 am
Joe. Jeff. – I like Al alot. But it is inexplicable to me why he hasn’t put on 10-15 lbs of muscle. He could easily do that and keep his mobility advantage over C’s in the League, and be able to take the pounding of the 5 spot better.
That is really my only beef with Al. It doesn’t look like he’s put the work in the weight room that some of these guys have, especially if your going to be asked to play an undersized 5 like he is.
SteveW
December 19th, 2011
11:24 am
So with Al not putting on the extra muscle, he has no choice but to play outside the lane alot, or stay injured.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 19th, 2011
11:38 am
So after ZaZa, our next bench big Is JASON COLLINS who cannot even grab a rebound.
We have no backup PG right now.
Our backup PF is a soft 3pt shooter who plays no defense.
GREAT JOB AND BASG. YOU GUYS SURE ARE HELPING US GET THAT RING WITH YOUR DEDICATION
SMGDMFH
Grandmaster JeJe
December 19th, 2011
11:40 am
SteveW
December 19th, 2011
11:24 am
So with Al not putting on the extra muscle, he has no choice but to play outside the lane alot, or stay injured
*******
Al is a jumpshoooter, not a post player. I thought everyone knew this by now.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 19th, 2011
11:49 am
Why is Joe Johnson nowhere to be seen in the community? He does his obligatory holiday events then he is never seen like the Loch Ness.
FIRE JOE
Michael Cunningham
December 19th, 2011
11:55 am
@O’Brien: “Gearon mentioned Deshawn Stevenson as one of the guys who put Dallas over the top. Given that he is a FA, maybe you can ask Gearon why they didn’t give Stevenson a call (since Gearon’s mantra is they will exceed the tax for a guy to put us over the top).”
my interpretation of what’s going on, based on comments by Gearon and Drew, is they first want to figure out if one of these young guards can help them until Hinrich gets back. if they think that’s a plan that won’t work, then i would expect the Hawks to add a vet. i’m not sure if doing so with a vet minimum would put them a bit over the tax line but, either way, Sund is authorized to sign someone.
Rufus1
December 19th, 2011
11:56 am
Unlearn BAD HABITS….
Woody was so BAD about FUNDAMENTALS as a coach, that LD has to get the players to UNLEARN that BEHAVIOUR.
In the 1st year LD had to teach them the BASICS of OFFENSE and MOVEMENT….That got us to the 6th game of the semifinals.
This year he is teaching the BASICS of sound FUNDAMENTAL DEFENSE…How far will this take us?
It takes time to change BAD HABITS and I think LD is doing a solid job,considering these players spent 6 years with Woody.
By the end of the year most you will RESPECT LD as a COACH and the Hawks will be in the ECF atleast.
PS. Even the GREAT COACHES made mistakes their rookie year.
GO HAWKS
Sautee
December 19th, 2011
11:58 am
SteveW,
FYI: this is from MC’s blog on 12/14
The Hawks updated some weights on their official roster. Jason Collins is 255, down from 265; Horford is 250, up from 245; Josh is 225, down from 250; and Marvin Williams is 245, up from 240.
Grandad
December 19th, 2011
12:19 pm
Joe.Jeff
I’m glad you’re blissful.
vava74
December 19th, 2011
12:24 pm
As anyone noticed on the video section of the Hawks’ site a cutting Marvin dunking a pass by Smoove?
Most striking thing about the play? V-Rad’s horrible D!!!
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
December 19th, 2011
12:32 pm
Hawks paying folks toll on the toll road to get people to buy tickets.
FIRE SUND
O'Brien
December 19th, 2011
12:33 pm
Steve W,
The time for working out an extension (or trading) Josh is next offseason when he will be entering the final year of his deal. That way, ASG has a chance to decide if they want to bring in a new coach, a new GM, or how to reshape the roster (since Hinrich’s contract will be off the books).
On the subject of contracts, as bad as Marvin’s yearly salary is ($7.5 mil), it wouldn’t be so bad if the 5th year is a team option, because if that was the case, they could have traded him next offseason. But now we are stuck with him for at least 2 more seasons.
Ken Strickland
December 19th, 2011
12:38 pm
RUFUS1-AMEN! And can I say AMEN again?
Why do all of you HORFORD HATERS insist on making such a big issue of AHorford, who’s one of the NBA’s most prolific midrange jumpshooters, taking jumpshoots, while having absolutely nothing to say about JSmith, who’s one of the NBAs worst midrange jumpshooters, taking so many outside shots? WHERE’S THE DOGGONE LOGIC AND/OR COMMON SENSE?
I see absolutely nothing wrong with a Center taking jumpshots, if that’s what he does best, particularly if it pulls the opposing center away from the basket. The inability to comprehend that fact demonstrates a serious deficiency in one’s comprehensive ability, as well as overall basketball IQ.
If the truth be told, Horford should play on the outside more, and take better advantage of what he does best. On the other hand, JSmith should play more inside, and take advantage of what he does best. It’s downright stupid to keep demanding that Horford concentrate on becoming a banger inside, when he’s such an effective and efficient midrange shooter.
It’s just as stupid to say almost nothing, in comparison, about JSmith’s long standing habit or drifting outside and shooting ill advised jumpers, rather than utilizing his skills inside. Once again, some of you can’t allow common sense, logic, knowledge, and facts, to get in the way of your personal agendas.
Ken Strickland
December 19th, 2011
12:42 pm
Man, waiting for tonights gm is going to make this a very long day for me.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 19th, 2011
12:48 pm
If the truth be told, Horford should play on the outside more, and take better advantage of what he does best. On the other hand, JSmith should play more inside, and take advantage of what he does best. It’s downright stupid to keep demanding that Horford concentrate on becoming a banger inside, when he’s such an effective and efficient midrange shooter.
*******
And what happens when the defender covers Horford so he cannot get that midrange J? Smoove is unstoppable when he attacks the hoop. Let’s see how he does this year
Grandad
December 19th, 2011
12:57 pm
Tell it all Brother Ken, tell it all !
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2011
12:59 pm
Hawks are paying the Ga. 400 toll… I guess we know where that unspent luxury tax money is going now.
They would be better off buying people MARTA cards in my opinion.
Michael Cunningham
December 19th, 2011
1:05 pm
new blog is posted. shutting down this thread.