Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 8 (Public Scrimmage)
- The Hawks had a public scrimmage. They let me in, too. I don’t want to make too much of a camp scrimmage but I was so happy to see competitive professional basketball again I have to make some observations even if they end up meaning nothing.
- Nice crowd at Philips–the Hawks put it at 2,500. The fans were into it. “That felt great to see that,” Josh Smith said. “The fans are really anticipating this season and looks like they are really excited to see something special we are putting together.”
- The fans saw a scrimmage that was cleaner than any I’ve seen at camp. That doesn’t mean it was very good. “Overall, it was OK,” Larry Drew said. “But we still have a ways to go.”
- Joe Johnson (13 points, three rebounds, seven assists, very very unofficially) looked like he could go out and play 40 good minutes right now. He scored effortlessly, made his 3-pointers, defended with vigor and generally showed the young guards in camp what an All-Star talent in top form looks like. “I didn’t know when the lockout would end, and I just wanted to come in in great game shape,” he said. “If you come in in good shape, everything else takes care of itself.”
- Joe said he’s down to about 236 pounds after weighing as much as 247 last season. “I feel a little faster, more durable,” he said. “I am going to try to keep it down.”
- “He’s playing really well,” L.D. said. “He’s having one of his best camps that I’ve seen him. He looks comfortable. He’s picking and choosing his spots. I think having guys like Tracy [McGrady], [Jerry] Stackhouse and [Vladimir] Radmanovic out there, I think he feels a comfort level with those guys because he knows those guys have been in the trenches.”
- Jeff Teague (16 points, four rebounds, one assist) pushed the pace and got to the rim whenever he wanted. Finishing was another matter. Teague tends to have tunnel vision while heading to the basket, which isn’t so bad because it means he’s being aggressive. However, he will draw a lot of defensive attention and he’s playing alongside scorers now so probably good to look for them.
- Josh Smith (10 points, six rebounds, two assists) was off and running every chance he got (though he, too, had some trouble finishing at the rim). He’s definitely faster but probably sacrificed some strength.
- Smith said he will have to change his approach to playing in the post: “I’m doing pretty good with that. I have just got to make sure I am low at all times and be able to create the contact and not wait for it. I’ve got to be ready for guys like Derrick Favors, Zach Randolph, Amar’e Stoudemire, all those guys who are strong down low.”
- Pape Sy (two points, two rebounds) didn’t make many shots but was aggressive with the ball and made some good decisions when he got to the basket. He threw down an alley oop dunk on a lob from J.J. “He’s very athletic,” Drew said. “He can get up and down the loor, he’s got a good body on him. He’s a really hard driver, too. He puts his head down he usually gets to the rim.”
- I’ve heard Keith Benson (10 points, four rebounds) has struggled during camp but he had his moments tonight. He’s got a smooth mid-range J, which was expected. He also showed no fear with banging in the paint for rebounds and post position, which were good signs for his development.
- McGrady (two points, two rebounds) never really seemed into it. Stackhouse (four points, two rebounds) competed hard on D and running off screens but the first step is lacking and the jumper wasn’t falling.
- Vladimir Radmanovic (three steals, two blocks) showed that he can at least hold his own on defense. He’s got quick hands and anticipates plays well.
- Al Horford (seven points, four rebounds, three steals) tried to work on his post game but he ended up mostly going to the spinning fadeaway Js. Those are the moves Brandon Bass and Joakim Noah anticipated and disrupted. I didn’t see him try to drive much, either.
- Drew said Magnum Rolle suffered a foot injury while playing in Korea over the summer. That helps explain why Rolle looked out of shape early in camp. He’s got good size and was making smooth jumpers. “I like his size, I like his length,” Drew said. “He’s a guy that hopefully he can keep getting better. You can throw him the ball down there and he can do something on the block.”
- I thought Brad Wanamaker (nine points, three assists) and Donald Sloan (five points, three assists) both looked pretty good. Both players are solidly built.
- Wanamaker is the crafty combo guard.”He’s a tough kid,” Drew said. “Very steady. He’s got some bulldog in him. I like that about him. He doesn’t back down. He’s a competitor.”
- Sloan is the speedy one, especially for his size (6-3, 205). He looks the part to play in the league. “I think he has the talent, I think he has the body,” Drew said. “All of the essentials needed at the guard position, I think he possesses those. He can knock down shots, he’s good on the pick-and-roll, he’s a distributor.”
- Zaza Pachulia (seven points, six rebounds) did what he does: He went hard to the basket and didn’t finish particularly well but drew fouls and kept collecting his own rebounds because he competes.
- Jason Collins did not play.
- Shout out to Hawks PR staffer Jason Roose for supplying the unofficial stats.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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143 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
December 17th, 2011
1:30 pm
“Can’t agree there. Even if Wannamaker proves to be a contributor he is NOWHERE near Hinrich.
Not by a mile. Hinrich is a savvy vet who is also an intangibles guy. I know that he is a good trading chip but we would be horribly thin on the back court.”
That’s not the point, though. A $9 million expiring contract can bring you depth at multiple positions. It’s no different from last year when I advocated trading Jamal at the deadline for multiple players. I know neither of these undrafted point guards is probably going to be anywhere near as reliable as a healthy Kirk, but if they can come anywhere close, it would give the Hawks the option of using Kirk as a trade chip. Obviously if neither one pans out, Kirk is indispensable as the backup PG.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 17th, 2011
1:30 pm
“Dirk … Really?
“He really thinks that he is Dirk’s new coming. Oh brother…” -Najeh DavenPoop-
____________
Where did I say this?
Ernest
December 17th, 2011
1:38 pm
It is good to see Ken Strickland remaining the voice of reason in a sea of discontented Hawks fans. I agree, I think the Hawks have a good shot to finish 3rd.
Astro Joe
December 17th, 2011
1:42 pm
northcyde, Baron is hurt and may not be back until around the same time as Hinrich is expected to return. Obviously, a GM doesn’t make decisions based on any two hour scrimmage, but with what I saw yesterday, I would grab someone like Earl Boykins or Pargo. I’m worried about TMac and his ability to score and one of those guy can address both the PG issue as well as deliver 6-8 points per contest.
northcyde
December 17th, 2011
1:49 pm
LOL . . and ya’ll stop trying to analyze everybody from a SCRIMMAGE game. AT least save it for the preseason game on Monday night. See if Wanamaker can slow down Kemba Walker. See if Benson and Rolle can hold their own against Tyrus Thomas.
Just don’t go crazy with the overreactions.
Remember, last preseason, we went 1 – 7. Then we open the season by going 6 – 0.
northcyde
December 17th, 2011
1:50 pm
Astro . . . word is that Baron kind of fake that injury thing, just to keep teams from claiming him off waivers. But he probably is hurt enough not to play for us right away.
stupid ass as stupid does
December 17th, 2011
1:52 pm
What does that say about the team if their highest and best hope is to finish 3rd ? I would not put either of you scrubs on my team. You guys are soft Twinkies Like Al Horford. I would nt go to war with either of you two ignorant bytchess co-signing each others dung.
I would not send an American soldier off to war with out the proper weaponry and expect victory. If you want to fight a war with a chance to win you will need the right weapons.
The hawks will use the same strategy that Woody used and try and run and gun. The Hawks lack A center,( they have Big Al but his heart aint willing) and a head coach.
If the hawks are going to compete seriously they need personnel changes. This core is done.
Who care about 3rd? Atlanta wants a Champion, not an ” also ran”.
SteveW
December 17th, 2011
1:57 pm
You know, all these comments on Teague, he was the 19th pick, and the 7th or 8th PG taken in his draft. He’ll probably be 25 before he reaches his peak, which looks like a Devin Harris type peak. Just below, DRose, Westbrook, DRon, Rondo, Wall, and those types.
But not a bad NBA PG.
SteveW
December 17th, 2011
1:58 pm
I like Bogans alot. But we let Wilkens walk, so I doubt we sign Bogans. Much the same skill set.
Astro Joe
December 17th, 2011
1:59 pm
northcyde, that brings me to the other reason I don’t like Baron, I think dude has some character issues. You can’t truss him (to paraphrase Mr. Flav).
SteveW
December 17th, 2011
2:03 pm
Did Teague start any of our blowout losses last season? All I remember is LD playing Bibby/Crawford/Hinrich, and getting blown out in certain games, and then Teague comes in and usually did great in mop up time.
I don’t think Teague played alot of first half minutes in our masacres.
brigadierjerry
December 17th, 2011
2:06 pm
Baron Davis is rumored to be heading into either the Lakers or the Knicks He is a hipster so no suprise there
correct
December 17th, 2011
2:31 pm
That makes sense.
Even on this blog page nobody feels good about saying “3rd”. This is suppose to be some type of consolation to getting shafted by the management and owners. Break up this group and start the rebuilding now.
Al, you dont want to play center? Ok Go play power forward some where else!
Ken Strickland
December 17th, 2011
2:54 pm
MIKE-TMac will be a rotational bench player that won’t be depended on for heavy mins or production. Besides, injuries are part of the gm, and any one of our players could end up missing 20-30gms. Stackhouse has yet to even make the team, and you’re going out of your way trying to make him an issue. WHERE’S THE DOGGONE LOGIC?
CARRLOS LYLES-Based on your comments, it appears you haven’t payed much attention to the Hawks over the last 3yrs. If you had, you’d know we’ve had pg issues going back to the days of Mookie Blaylock. Yet, inspite of those PG issues, we’ve still managed to do quite well over the last 3yrs. So why would you think we’d all of a sudden fall apart now?
Here’s what amazes and puzzles me at the same time about all of you doom and gloom prognostators. You either totally ignore what Teague did in last yrs playoff series against DRose and the Bulls, or claim it didn’t prove anything. Yet, you have no problem whatsoever judging him, and the projected outcome of the teams entire season, based on a doggone 1st time team scrimmage. WHERE’S THE DOGGONE LOGIC?
EARNEST-Some of these comments are from people who love the gm, have concern for and support the Hawks, but they just don’t possess a lot of in depth basketball knowledge. Therefore they fear, or show concern for things they just don’t understand. The idea that the team will have a disasterous yr just because they think our PGs have tunnel vision is a perfect example.
They can only see things from a one dimensional perspective, and that dimension is almost always geared towards OFF. The fact that our current crop of PGs can all run, run fastbreaks, penetgrate, and definitely play DEF, which was almost totally nonexistent in the past, totally escapes them. None of these attributes have anything to do with tunnel vision.
I don’t have a problem with them, because at least they care and are concerned about the team, unlike some of the NEGATIVE MINDED BASHERS that frequent our blogs.
doc
December 17th, 2011
3:10 pm
baron is side linex with a bad back issue guys. he is in kir land waiting a couple of months to get better.
folks aneurysms are toigh stuff depending on where it is. real serious and i wish him well.
ken baby you almost had me there until you said wann is better than jc1. we woll need craws offense more lthan folks think. sorry we couldnt find the coin to keep him for very strict focueed attacks.
Maybe
December 17th, 2011
3:14 pm
Zaza, Jason Collins, Marvin and a first rd. Pick for Kendrick Perkins?
I think it would be worth it. ;
Teague, Joe, Josh, Al, Perkins That’s really solid. Just gotta get guys who can light it up off the bench.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
December 17th, 2011
3:18 pm
“If we have no shot at Howard i like Gerald Wallace or Okafor we are dying for a true C .”
Yeah, Wallace could be a great “true” center. 6′ 7″ 220. LMFAO
jhan
December 17th, 2011
3:19 pm
Carlos – what are you basing your theory on? The only time I ever saw Teague play starter minutes was against the Bulls last year. If you think that was bad PG play then you better watch again. I’ll take that Teague for a full season all day long!
doc
December 17th, 2011
3:27 pm
i see later in the thred the baron back was mentioned however folks have been bringing his name into play since he was dropped.
MC, btw there was a logical way to get under tax spend over tax have crawford healthy for the year. to have amnestized kirk who is doubtful for at least two months would have done it. yes they would in real dollars go over tax but it wouldnt have cost more than that. care to bring that up to anyone suggesting added cost of tax the problem or are they that sure of a guy they saw in bery lomited action of a short series.
ken i too was thinking vlad over jp specifically. he can shoot, pass and defend better but he cant rebound, run or protect the ball better. of course jp was 0 for 6 on those skills while i watched last year. did they test vlad for being able to understand police gand signals and courtesy laws to energency vehicles, too?
rev always like your wry sense of humor.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 17th, 2011
3:29 pm
Sleepy!
T-Mac has a medical condition called:
DX: Ptosis. The levator palpabre muscle elevates the eye lid. This is an intra-occular muscle that has paralysis, i.e. (No muscle tone). This may be congenital (at birth) or acquired (degenerative condition over time), either way, if gives the facial appearance of sleepiness.
Oh well, it has not affected his overall career performance, nor will it affect his performance as a Hawk. Just a medical observation on my part.
Tracy being a 12 year veteran, I would be more concerned about his knees and leg strength with a grueling and compressed schedule. More importantly, how Drew uses him in player rotation. Seems like we could go get Ishmael Smith to back up Teague, from a youth movement perspective. Ishmael is a deadly shooter, a sniper of sorts. IDK anything about his defense though, but he is a true PG and a little on the smallish side. He has proven what he can do, IMHO.
Sautee
December 17th, 2011
3:30 pm
“is the dude still trying to be dirk? The dude Al says he aint gonna play center, what he meant is he aint gonna defend at center.”
T-S, you’re back!
But you know very well that Al never said he “ain’t gonna play center”. Keep up all the Al hate you want, but don’t put words in his mouth that he never said.
In other words keep your hate real.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 17th, 2011
3:33 pm
My Bad!
Najeh, I may have to go back and re-read your earlier post.
You probably were answering a quote from another blogger. Sorry, it’s tricky reading the small screen on this BS BBerry phone. LOL! I need to upgrade my phone, baD.
doc
December 17th, 2011
3:35 pm
jhan is that who we will see all day long is the important question with no reliable back up plan if he flags his next test to do it every night against all comers in size, speed and strength. reall i vote to add pg over big right now with hinrich down. it wa going to be a huge strength to have jj, hinrich and jt0 to play off of each others abilities. huge drop off beyond that but “tweeners r us”, baby.
BIG DOG
December 17th, 2011
3:44 pm
Sautee, Al is not a center at all, untill he play natural position PF the Hawks will be at bottom of NBA in rebounding.
2010-2011 RANK 28 IN REBOUNDING.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
terrell
December 17th, 2011
3:45 pm
Yeah Steve, I still cant believe LD(Woody Jr) stuck with Bibby and Jamal in those blowouts, and any other game for that matter, and just let Teague rot on the bench. Even gave up JC1 and picks cause he didnt know(and probably didnt care) what he had on the bench. Bunch of morons.
terrell
December 17th, 2011
3:46 pm
“JC2″
doc
December 17th, 2011
3:51 pm
yes northcyde, streaky we are finished last 20 games of season last year about at 33% clip then won 5 of 7 in layoffs and finished 1 for five to fall out of the tournament. couple of questions, is can we be consistently good like the year we won 53 and what 33 at home or the team that got seriousy embarrased many times by upwards of 40 points twice and over 20 many times. we had the worst differential if so many of the top teams in the tournament but made it to the second round. was that luck ir a single good match up for us for our record? i think without more legit fire powr we will be no better or slightly worse % record wise or barely above .500. when rosters known completely i might change to upgrade after looking game by game. i certainly dont think they are better than memphis if gay is better for example, your thoughts?
BIG DOG
December 17th, 2011
3:51 pm
Kyrylo Fesenko, call him now and is available, a true center who is only age 24 why not take a chance on him, and stop bringing players that have no benefit on fixing the Hawks major problem, thats being rank at bottom in NBA REBOUNDING.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 17th, 2011
3:53 pm
The Apprentice!
“#Hawks waive camp invites Charles Garcia and Zach Graham ” -MC Tweet-
____________
Looks like ole’ Stack survived the first wave of cuts. Perhaps, Jerry can be retained as an apprentice and sit on that second row where the “inner-dog finder” once sat. Or, maybe take an assistant coaches spot?
I would not recommend giving Jerry a roster spot with him being out of the league last year. His shipped probably sailed 2 to 3 years ago, while in Milwaukee.
Sorry Sund, you slept longer that “Rip Van Winkle” as usual.
BIG DOG
December 17th, 2011
3:58 pm
http://youtu.be/b9D2PQdRPiw
sign him Rick Sund
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 17th, 2011
3:59 pm
The animosity on this blog is tantalizing lol
———
Of the 4 Eastern Conference teams that finished ahead of the Hawks last yr(Bulls, Heat, Celtics, Magic), only the Bulls and Heat figure to do it again this yr. The Celtics are too old, and too soft, fragile and thin in the middle. The Magic are about to go into serious rebuilding mode, and are more interested in seeing how much they can get for DHoward before the trade deadline passes than battling for a playoff spot.
—–
That’s pretty narrow thinking Mr. Strickland. Pacers and 76ers are the ones Im worried about robbing our regular season home seed.
As for postseason… 2010-2011 RANK 28 IN REBOUNDING. Low budget and no trade Horford Solution?
instead of moving Smith’s 14-15% league leading rebounding to the SF you tell Marvin the Duck and 30 yo Joe to rebound… AS IF.
========
Nets vs Knicks… Josh Harrelson has same raw measurements as Kevin Love. Lesser player but white boy wrested the ball from Shelden (yes that Shelden) with one hand.
===
Shelden 5th foul
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 17th, 2011
4:01 pm
Hey! Look at Renaldo playing SF.
Renaldo-Harrelson-Jeffries
16pts for Renaldo
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 17th, 2011
4:02 pm
lol Brook Lopez is a bum. no respect from refs. Brook Dangerfield
Sautee
December 17th, 2011
4:14 pm
“Sautee, Al is not a center at all, untill he play natural position PF the Hawks will be at bottom of NBA in rebounding.”
“2010-2011 RANK 28 IN REBOUNDING.”
Oh brother, here we go again.
While I’m still disgusted with the way Al played in the postseason, I’ll defend the straight out LIE that he was 28th in rebounding last year. He was 11th overall, and 7th among centers.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avgRebounds/year/2011/seasontype/2
Like I said, keep your hate real. With the way Al played in May, there’s no need to stretch the truth.
BIG DOG
December 17th, 2011
4:24 pm
Sautee, the Team rank 28 rebounding not AL, but his rebounding has no effect very deceiving, Sautee if your saying Al is a true center then i must continue SMH. He has no defense present in paint and will always be dominated in paint come playoffs.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
A concerned fan..
December 17th, 2011
4:32 pm
Celtics decrease their chances of making the playoffs now that Jeff Green is out.
Grandad
December 17th, 2011
4:48 pm
northcyde
Thanks for the R.E. clip.
I thought at 1st you were linking the one where
Reg grabbed Kaman’s nut sack.
The TNT crew had a hoot with that one.
Sautee
December 17th, 2011
4:56 pm
“Sautee if your saying Al is a true center then i must continue SMH.”
No, he’s not a “true center”, but he’s BY FAR the best overall option on our roster at that position.
As I’ve always argued. He “plays the 5″ effectively” no matter whether you say he’s a PF or not.
And how, pray tell, does his or any player’s rebounding have “no effect”? Is this something like your previous theory that Zaza was only a good rebounder because he was too lazy to get back on D?
brigadierjerry
December 17th, 2011
5:21 pm
drmary b,
Ish smith is out. He got picked up by the warriors a few days ago. Also is Nick Young serious?He is looking to get 9 million from a team?Good luck with that. Watching the Nets Knicks game today, Iman Shumpert and Harrelson from UK actually looked decent today. Chandler is going to help the Knicks a lot for that team.
Carrlos Lyles
December 17th, 2011
5:21 pm
@ken strickland I pay attention to the hawks more than you can believe and the days when mookie was playing it wasent a PG’s league, thats the direction that the league is going,(notice who was MVP and the 1st pick of the draft) and teague at best will be similar to tyronne Lue playing ability. all im stating is that people are putting alot of faith in Teague when he had a good series against a chicago team who most likely did not scout ahead of time. I love the Hawks, I love Atlanta but to believe that he is the Pg of the future is not realistic. and being that it was a scrimmage he should have been chill and relaxed but effective not getting blocked and shooting air ball floaters. If he gets that deep in the lane at least get to the free throw line, finish or kick it out.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 17th, 2011
5:36 pm
Josh losing weight is very bad.
Read Shaq’s book. He was forced to lose a lot of body fat and therefore had no “cushion” when battling in post while in MIA. This was the most injury-prone time of his career. Smoove will be very injury prone this season if he plays a lot in the post.
Michael Cunningham
December 17th, 2011
5:50 pm
new blog is posted. shutting down this thread.
Atlanta Hawks Scrimmage Notes - Soaring Down South
December 17th, 2011
9:21 pm
[...] know this post is a bit late and most of you have probably read MC’s AJC recap of the scrimmage, but I have a few more notes to add and other notes to emphasize on from what I saw yesterday [...]