Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 7
It appears the Hawks are in no hurry to add another veteran guard. And if Kirk Hinrich continues his quick recovery from shoulder surgery, Larry Drew said there’s a chance they may try to get by with that they have until he returns to the lineup.
“It sounds like he is healing pretty good,” Drew said today. “From my understanding, he is ahead of schedule, and that is a good thing. He wants to hurry up and get back but we have got to let this thing take its course. It’s something you can’t rush. Those type injuries they could really set you back.”
Hinrich had the procedure in early November and the Hawks said he would be out 3-4 months. He’s been shooting baskets but still doesn’t have full range of motion and hasn’t been cleared to run.
Drew said the Hawks inquired about free agent point guard Carlos Arroyo but were told he’s playing elsewhere. He said there have been internal discussions about Gilbert Arenas and other free agents but “right now we are not making decisions on any of those guys.”
So it’s possible the Hawks could start the season without adding another vet guard and patch it together while Hinrich mends.
“We’ve talked about that as a [coaching] staff and management,” Drew said. “But timetable-wise there is no guarantee when he is going to come back. It’s not like we know, ‘Exactly this date,’ and know what we are working with. We’ve got to make a decision from that point. Do we try to keep our head above water until he gets back or do we get some help? Right now we are going to go with what we have and if something falls through the cracks we will take a look.”
Right now at point guard the Hawks have Jeff Teague and Pape Sy plus camp invitees Brad Wanamaker and Donald Sloan. The shooting guards are veterans Joe Johnson and Tracy McGrady as well as camp invitees Zach Graham and Jerry Stackhouse. Sy and Wanamaker also can play there, and Drew said even Marvin Williams could spot minutes at shooting guard.
You can see that without Hinrich available to play both guard spots there’s not much depth at all, much less guys the Hawks can be certain will be productive and reliable. It spills over to small forward, too, where there is no real backup for Williams. McGrady, Johnson and Josh Smith can fill in there.
Camp report
- Rick Sund can sign another veteran to a minimum deal. I’m not certain if that would cause the Hawks to dip their toe across the luxury-tax line. They likely will end up with enough non-guaranteed contracts on the roster that they can make some adjustments later to avoid a year-end tax bill.
- Drew will have the ability to send out some very big lineups. How about McGrady, Johnson, Smith, Al Horford and Jason Collins or McGrady, Johnson, Williams, Smith, and Horford? “There are some different combinations I can use,” Drew said.
- Drew said Sy “has come a long ways as far as improvement,” called Wanamaker “a heady player” and still sounds like he’d like to keep Stackhouse: “He’s had a good camp so far.”
- As you probably heard by now, Jamal Crawford signed with Portland. It turns out he could have been had for the mid-level.
- The Hawks weren’t scrimmaging when media types were let in today but reports say Magnum Rolle has looked pretty good. Word is he’s playing much more aggressively than he did during last season’s Hawks practices and the June minicamp. Atlanta, of course, could use another true big in the rotation behind Al Horford, Zaza Pachulia, Jason Collins and Smith.
- Drew said McGrady sat out yesterday with a sore arm. He was back on the court today.
- Drew said there will be a short practice tomorrow followed by a 45-minute scrimmage. The public event starts at
7:307 p.m. at Philips Arena.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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350 comments Add your comment
Astro Joe
December 16th, 2011
4:05 pm
Mary, I think that Hoopsworld is written by bloggers, folk with an opinion but not necessarily insight into whatthe coaches are saying. I could be wrong and maybe that was just the portion of the website that I read previously… but I don’t recall it being hard news, just opinion.
Sautee
December 16th, 2011
4:08 pm
“Whats not advertised here is rebound %. These are totals. As in Josh and Horford play a combined 70mpg”
Well, DUH! Of COURSE they had to play that many minutes. We don’t have adequate depth on the front line. And IF we had a deep frontcourt bench like CHI, then Al’s and Josh’s totals would be UP in % because they would be fresher and play more efficient minutes. Ask Noah and Boozer how valuable Gibson and Asik were to them.
Geez. you were the one ASKING for that data, and then you try to tear it down and make it a criticism. What an amazing fanhood you display.
Sautee
December 16th, 2011
4:18 pm
Rod,
“Yes Jamal was not a great defender, but his scoring ability more than makes up for his defense”
OK Rod, if his scoring “more than made up for his defense” than why were his + / – numbers always so bad? Two years ago, you could say it was because he played more often with second teamers, but last year, due to him too often playing the point, that was less the case.
I realize that + /- numbers can deceive, but when it’s as egregious as JC1 was OFTEN, then it gets to be a touchstone. Do you know any other way to measure whether or not he gave more than he got? Other than your opinion?
KevinM
December 16th, 2011
4:20 pm
Astro Joe, I will lose the average moniker going forward, haha.
I will let the season determine how good these guys are. I hope for new and unseen skills we haven’t seen up to this point.
Enjoy the scrimmage tonight….need to track down MC and thank him for his daily blogs and keeping us in the loop as much as the Hawks will allow.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 16th, 2011
4:21 pm
Sautee
Tyson Chandler has averaged 35mpg and 12.4 rpg and 11.7 rpg. He is 7′1 and dunks everything in sight.
We’ve seen Josh and Al in action. They are not on that level. You can argue about Taj Gibson and Asik but then why does Boozer average 18ppg in less minutes?
Hes a better scorer and rebounder.
Josh and Horford are undersized compared to championship frontcourts. Not Nowitzki-level skill to overcome it. And btw Marvin, the SF, is part of the frontcourt.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 16th, 2011
4:22 pm
Where can we watch the scrimmage?
bigdave
December 16th, 2011
4:25 pm
Kevin M .. StroJoe,
appreciate it.. was going to go but from the looks of it, more of a family fun feel.. fortunately, im not in that market yet, lol..
guess ill just wait for preseason action to get a taste of what im surprisingly optimistic about.. meanwhile, ill look for tidbits from you guys that do attend..
be safe..
Rod from College Park
December 16th, 2011
4:38 pm
Sautee,
I ask one question. In your great basketball opinion, would we have won the Orlando series without Jamal Crawford?
I realize that + /- numbers can deceive, but when it’s as egregious as JC1 was OFTEN, then it gets to be a touchstone. Do you know any other way to measure whether or not he gave more than he got? Other than your opinion?
Yes, his ppg average. Especially in the playoffs. He averaged 15.4 ppg during last years playoffs, and I thing we averaged about 86 ppg in the playoffs last year. Jamal basically accounted for about 18% of our total scoring in the playoffs. I very seriously doubt that he was soley responsible for that high a percentage points on the other end. Could be wrong though, but I doubt it.
superiorblogman
December 16th, 2011
4:40 pm
Did we get Kaman for Kirk,Zaza, and that 2nd rounder yet?
Sautee
December 16th, 2011
4:45 pm
Flavor Flav,
about this:
“Tyson Chandler has averaged 35mpg and 12.4 rpg and 11.7 rpg”
Yes, 5 FREAKIN’ YEARS AGO. LOL!
Anyone willing to conflate old stats as if they are relevant today (without any mention of it) is not worth anymore of my time.
Your use of stats is abominable. Go root for the Bucks.
Sautee
December 16th, 2011
4:59 pm
Rod,
“I ask one question. In your great basketball opinion, would we have won the Orlando series without Jamal Crawford?”
Why my “great basketball opinion”? Have I said something to make you think I elevate myself above others here? I would hope that if anything, I have encouraged a variety of opinions. I can assure you that, while I defend my positions, I never think that my opinion is better than another, just differing.
And in my opinion (just like everyone elses’s) Jamal was great against ORL. But his points came with a LOT of attempts (as well as he played, he shot less than 40% for the series).
But if you look at the bigger picture,over the entire year he gave up a LOT of points. That’s my opinion. If it’s great, great.
Rod from College Park
December 16th, 2011
5:02 pm
Sautee,
Still did not answer the question. In your opinion, do we beat Orlando without Jamal. YES or NO.
ArtMan
December 16th, 2011
5:16 pm
My question is:
Would Atlanta have won the playoff series against Chicago if the Hawks had Tom Thibodeau as coach and the Bulls had Larry Drew as coach?
Sautee
December 16th, 2011
5:17 pm
Rod,
I thought I was clear. We needed Jamal to win that series. Particularly with Horford so off his feed. We’ll likely need him in the postseason this year. Thank you ASG. But there are many games between now and then, and we’ll see how (or if) the Hawks fill that need out of their roster.
But I will NOT miss his lack of defense and his untimely turnovers. That’s my opinion.
I’ll point out that neither did you answer my question.
EmirS.
December 16th, 2011
5:20 pm
Do the Bulls beat the Hawks without Jamal?
I like this game.
Rod from College Park
December 16th, 2011
5:25 pm
Sautee,
“I realize that + /- numbers can deceive”
You actually answered your own question.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
December 16th, 2011
5:25 pm
Marvin Williams got a new contract for doing nothing but we let Jamal go after all he has done for the team. That’s Sund for ya.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
December 16th, 2011
5:27 pm
Bibby and Marvin did not deserve new contracts 2 years ago. They should have locked down Jamal and let them walk.
Rod from College Park
December 16th, 2011
5:27 pm
Do the Bulls beat the Hawks without Jamal?
Worse than last year. Yes.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
December 16th, 2011
5:28 pm
Sund rewards those that do nothing and lets the ones that contribute walk.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2011
5:34 pm
” I think many of you are underestimating what having a guy who can get his own shot, take his man off the dribble, and commands a double team means in the NBA, especially on this team with no pure scorer’s, and especially in the playoffs. ”
This is a valid point, but the loss of Jamal from the bench can be mitigated if the team actually runs the offense. Easier said than done, obviously, but the better LD does at making the players execute his offensive scheme, the less a one-on-one player like Jamal is going to be missed. Good teams have gotten by in the playoffs without great one-on-one bench scorers, but generally those teams execute better on offense.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2011
5:34 pm
By the way, if you want to see some idiotic, delusional comments, check out Gearon’s comments on MC’s twitter feed.
JaeEvolution
December 16th, 2011
5:39 pm
I know bigs are more important, but Chicago recently waived Keith Bogans he can no doubt be gotten for the minimum and will fill in for Joe nicely off the bench as a defensive stopper, and maybe instill a little bit that mindset into the whole team. We lack a lot of depth for the guards with Kirk out and no real back up for Joe yet, I’ll take Bogans > Stackhouse…
Sautee
December 16th, 2011
5:39 pm
Rod,
Why my “great basketball opinion”?
And you cut off my entire quote, which gave the “deceive” mention context. Did you MISS the context, or are you just jabbing at me?
superiorblogman
December 16th, 2011
5:43 pm
Keith Bogans got waived. He would be better than Stackhouse and McGrady as a defender and he definitely has more in the tank than either.
vava74
December 16th, 2011
5:43 pm
Releasing Bogans was a bad roster move for the Bulls. He was their Bruce Bowen
Rod from College Park
December 16th, 2011
5:43 pm
Sautee,
Just jabbing..
vava74
December 16th, 2011
5:47 pm
Najeh Davenpoop December 16th, 2011
5:34 pm
Perfectly said. Even Jordan had to submit his mighty game to a team oriented system.
What fraking better evidence people need to lean that this is a team sport???
Hawk Billed
December 16th, 2011
5:49 pm
Ask Gearon why they selected Marvin Williams over Chris Paul when they needed a point guard then ? I’d love to hear that reason.
Trojan
December 16th, 2011
5:53 pm
Jamal was a net negative with the Hawks. We will be better as a team.
northcyde
December 16th, 2011
5:56 pm
(( Gearon Jr. says #Hawks willing to add $, pay tax at trade deadline to get “missing piece we think will take us over the top.” ))
LOL . . pay tax at trade deadline? Get missing piece? You mean like last year, when you basically traded 2 draft picks for Kirk Hinrich? Was he the missing piece last year?
*********************************
(( Told some fans think owners aren’t cheap but make poor $ decisions, Gearon Jr. sed: “I love that. I want a buzz. I’m thick-skinned.” ))
LOL @ he want a buzz. How do the fans thinking that you guys are idiots with your money give you a “buzz”? You’re not “cheap”, you’re just “scared”.
You’re like a spades player that holds onto a Big Joker to the very last play of a spades hand, but still got “set” because you probably should’ve played the Big Joker 4 hands earlier.
You let a possible “cut” go by, just because you didn’t want to play the Big Joker right then and leave you with no spades. Instead, you hold onto that Joker, and expect your partner to get the book. He/she didn’t, and that ends up costing you the game, because you and your partner held onto the Big and Little Jokers until the final play of the hand.
That’s the ASG . . . holding onto Jokers, instead of using them early to make their bid, and possibly setting the other spades team.
vava74
December 16th, 2011
5:57 pm
Sautee, Still did not answer the question. In your opinion, do we beat Orlando without
Jamal. YES or NO.
Let answer that for you Rod:
If, as we were exactly at that time, Jamal had not played. No, we would not have won that series.
BUT, if we had started Teague months earlier and he was our starting PG with Hinrich backing him and JJ, I have little doubt that we would win the series too.
vava74
December 16th, 2011
6:01 pm
And, we could have easily replaced Jamal for Jordan C. I have little doubt that he will a much more complete player that Jamal and if he had been given good minutes he would have reached the playoffs playing at a level close to Jamal on offence and already better on all other fronts.
vava74
December 16th, 2011
6:03 pm
Sorry for the omissions and typos.
northcyde
December 16th, 2011
6:03 pm
(( Gearon Jr. : “We haven’t seen enough to say this team is not capable of competing [for a title].” #Hawks ))
So you want to see this squad first, before making a determination that we can win a NBA title? So our vet minimum guys and 2nd round picks are all we needed to put us over the top?
28th in rebounding, but never fear, guys named Magnum and Kito will save us.
vava74
December 16th, 2011
6:31 pm
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7357471/the-tenth-day-nba-christmas
vava74
December 16th, 2011
6:42 pm
Bill Simmons:
“The only thing that stops LeBron better than DeShawn Stevenson is the fourth quarter.”
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 16th, 2011
6:44 pm
“Tyson Chandler has averaged 35mpg and 12.4 rpg and 11.7 rpg”
Yes, 5 FREAKIN’ YEARS AGO. LOL!
Anyone willing to conflate old stats as if they are relevant today (without any mention of it) is not worth anymore of my time.
Your use of stats is abominable. Go root for the Bucks.
How ignorant are you? You put up Josh and Al’s totals. Then you say if they play less minutes they would rebound more.
Would it be to Tyson CHandler’s elite level? Five months ago Chandler won a championship. You think Smith could play center for DAL or Horford could go head to head with Bynum and dunk everything in sight?
Chandler and a lot of other 7 footers are better rebounders and defenders than what we have. I didn;t hear Tyson Chandler or his dad saying his natural position is the 4. Just stop it.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 16th, 2011
6:46 pm
Might start rooting for LAC
• Yes, I’m fully aware that Vinny Del Negro is prominently involved in the 2011-12 Clippers season. Elephant, meet room.
As for Chris Paul, do you think he feels like he won the lottery? The Clippers are trotting out the league’s most entertaining team, two franchise players (only Miami and Oklahoma City can say the same), a potential “Stockton/Malone 2.0″ brewing with Paul and Griffin, the Lob City gimmick (let the record show that Griffin and DeAndre Jordan finished second and third in dunks last year cbssports/nba/dunk-o-meter/yearly, and that Jordan’s “2008 Tyson Chandler” potential was the most underrated thing about this trade
vava74
December 16th, 2011
6:54 pm
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7360397/the-eleventh-day-nba-christmas
JaeEvolution
December 16th, 2011
7:05 pm
For all who didn’t or can’t go to the Hawks practice they are streaming it live on NBA.com.
Ken Strickland
December 16th, 2011
7:10 pm
Once the season starts, what will all of you TRADE and FANTASY BASKETBALL FANATICS do? Can you get your delusional heads out of your YOU KNOW WHAT long enough to realize the Hawks will start the season with the players on the roster, not the players all of you keep wishing for.
OBRIEN-I apologize for misunderstanding your point, and as far as Pape Sy is concerned, I understand your point. However, do we have anyone on the current roster who can do any better? Before we write him and his abilities off, we need to give him a chance to prove himself. We can’t afford to make the same senseless mistake and poor judgement that was made with Teague.
Also, with Hinrich’s expected return sometime this season, it’s not like he’ll be our backup PG the entire season. If he receives quality time and experience, with his size, versatility and DEF, he could end up being a very valuable asset come playoff time. Besides, as a PG, I don’t see how he can be any worse than Jamal, especially on DEF.
If he can run a fastbreak he should be alright, since Drews motion OFF isn’t necessarily PG driven. Since Pape Sy is a combo guard and plays solid DEF, he and Teague can play together. Playing Bibby and Jamal together was the same as committing DEF suicide.
FreshFromATL
December 16th, 2011
7:14 pm
Ken Strickland,
AMEN bro!
Sautee
December 16th, 2011
7:22 pm
“How ignorant are you? You put up Josh and Al’s totals. Then you say if they play less minutes they would rebound more.”
Actually that’s NOT what I said. I said their rebound % would be higher if they were fresher. As should any NBA starter. I guess, for you, my “ignorance” hid what I actually said.
You seem to like twisting things around. But this is it for commenting on your foolishness. I’m done hog-rasslin’. Except to point out your pathetic fanhood. I’ll reserve that, as it’s maddening when so-called ‘fans” can’t find anything positive unless it’s their own vision of what the team “should be”.
I’ll take comfort that this season will be more satisfying for me. You, however will have a miserable time watching something less than your “vision”. I hope that nine tenths empty glass is not too bitter.
Slimjr
December 16th, 2011
7:24 pm
firstrowsports dot tv
is streaming all of the NBA presason games live!! Enjoy em….
Slimjr
December 16th, 2011
7:25 pm
preseason^^^
Slimjr
December 16th, 2011
7:28 pm
Pacers up 10 in the 1st over da BULLS!
J.J.M.
December 16th, 2011
7:32 pm
lol hawks looking so confused practicing
FreshFromATL
December 16th, 2011
7:35 pm
Live stream for the Hawks scrimmage:
http://www.nba.com/live3/
Melvin
December 16th, 2011
7:40 pm
Damien Wilkinson is a starter for the Pistons tonight. Good for him…