Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 7
It appears the Hawks are in no hurry to add another veteran guard. And if Kirk Hinrich continues his quick recovery from shoulder surgery, Larry Drew said there’s a chance they may try to get by with that they have until he returns to the lineup.
“It sounds like he is healing pretty good,” Drew said today. “From my understanding, he is ahead of schedule, and that is a good thing. He wants to hurry up and get back but we have got to let this thing take its course. It’s something you can’t rush. Those type injuries they could really set you back.”
Hinrich had the procedure in early November and the Hawks said he would be out 3-4 months. He’s been shooting baskets but still doesn’t have full range of motion and hasn’t been cleared to run.
Drew said the Hawks inquired about free agent point guard Carlos Arroyo but were told he’s playing elsewhere. He said there have been internal discussions about Gilbert Arenas and other free agents but “right now we are not making decisions on any of those guys.”
So it’s possible the Hawks could start the season without adding another vet guard and patch it together while Hinrich mends.
“We’ve talked about that as a [coaching] staff and management,” Drew said. “But timetable-wise there is no guarantee when he is going to come back. It’s not like we know, ‘Exactly this date,’ and know what we are working with. We’ve got to make a decision from that point. Do we try to keep our head above water until he gets back or do we get some help? Right now we are going to go with what we have and if something falls through the cracks we will take a look.”
Right now at point guard the Hawks have Jeff Teague and Pape Sy plus camp invitees Brad Wanamaker and Donald Sloan. The shooting guards are veterans Joe Johnson and Tracy McGrady as well as camp invitees Zach Graham and Jerry Stackhouse. Sy and Wanamaker also can play there, and Drew said even Marvin Williams could spot minutes at shooting guard.
You can see that without Hinrich available to play both guard spots there’s not much depth at all, much less guys the Hawks can be certain will be productive and reliable. It spills over to small forward, too, where there is no real backup for Williams. McGrady, Johnson and Josh Smith can fill in there.
Camp report
- Rick Sund can sign another veteran to a minimum deal. I’m not certain if that would cause the Hawks to dip their toe across the luxury-tax line. They likely will end up with enough non-guaranteed contracts on the roster that they can make some adjustments later to avoid a year-end tax bill.
- Drew will have the ability to send out some very big lineups. How about McGrady, Johnson, Smith, Al Horford and Jason Collins or McGrady, Johnson, Williams, Smith, and Horford? “There are some different combinations I can use,” Drew said.
- Drew said Sy “has come a long ways as far as improvement,” called Wanamaker “a heady player” and still sounds like he’d like to keep Stackhouse: “He’s had a good camp so far.”
- As you probably heard by now, Jamal Crawford signed with Portland. It turns out he could have been had for the mid-level.
- The Hawks weren’t scrimmaging when media types were let in today but reports say Magnum Rolle has looked pretty good. Word is he’s playing much more aggressively than he did during last season’s Hawks practices and the June minicamp. Atlanta, of course, could use another true big in the rotation behind Al Horford, Zaza Pachulia, Jason Collins and Smith.
- Drew said McGrady sat out yesterday with a sore arm. He was back on the court today.
- Drew said there will be a short practice tomorrow followed by a 45-minute scrimmage. The public event starts at
7:307 p.m. at Philips Arena.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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350 comments Add your comment
Astro Joe
December 16th, 2011
9:58 am
Won’t it be fun to watch the development of Benson, Wanamaker & Rolle for the next 66 games? The careless pass, the incessant fouling, the missed defensive rotation, the hurried shooting, etc. Big, big FUN!!!
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 16th, 2011
10:01 am
You can’t tell me that the SNash led Suns, and the Magic led Lakers, 2 teams that epitimized running, were prolific rebounding teams.
LOL
Magic Johnson – 13% Total Rebounds by himself
Jeff Teague and Joe Johnson – combined
HoF Steve Nash > Jeff Teague
Joe Johnson is a tad slower than tweener Barbosa
Marvin Williams lol a tad slower than Jason Richardson
Josh vs marion is close
Horford vs Amare tho? Are you kidding me?
Not to mention the Suns are a losing formula because they got beat up on the boards. If you want the Suns go watch Phoenix, they are absolutely terrible.
Shawn Marion won a title with the twin towers Dirk Nowitzki and Tyson Chandler
Amare now plays with Tyson Chandler
lol at comparing Teague running a break to Nash or 14ppg Horford and HoF Amare SMDH
Geemack
December 16th, 2011
10:14 am
Starting Jeff Teague will be like getting a free agent, he brings new energy to the team.
I think the Hawks will be better because of it.
My biggest challenge with the Hawks is their stubbornness to stick with Marvin in the starting line up, when Josh is clearly the better SF.
Zaza has proven, whenever he get minutes he can rebound with the best of them, plus he adds toughness in the pivot.
Teague could be the 3rd best PG in the east behind D-will and D-Rose….and yes better than Rondo Jennings, Wall and Collison.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 16th, 2011
10:29 am
“To run, the Hawks will have to rebound. Look at how each player’s s defensive rebounding rate ranks among NBA players at their position with more than 15 minutes per game, and it’s not hard to see who needs to pick it up (all rankings according to Hoopdata.com): Al (13th among centers), Josh (15th PFs), Teague (tied for 13th PGs but played less than 15 minutes per game) Joe (25th SGs), Marvin (23rd SFs)
The 6-7 shooting guard with the chiseled body and the 6-9, athletic small forward should not be average or slightly better at defensive rebounding for their position.
“I’m going to challenge both of those guys this year to be better rebounders than they have been in the past,” Drew said. “There is no reason those guys can’t become better rebounders. They have the size. They have the bodies. Rebounding is a dirty job. We are going to challenge them. When we can get the two or the three on glass, they can initiate a fast break effectively. They’ve got to pull more weight in that area. We’ve got to get more rebounding from those spots.”
——————————————————————-
When we can get the two or the three on glass, they can initiate a fast break effectively.
1) Seems to me Drew is saying they can get the ball and start dribbling? I guess Joe can dribble but Marvin? Then whats the point of Teague.
2) Josh Smith is #1 amongst qualified NBA “Small Forwards” and 30th at power forward. Al Horford is 26th amongst centers and 20th @ PF. This is according to ESPNs RebRate.
3) Hawks were absolutely atrocious last year and ranked 28th in rebounding last year.
4) Instead of adding a big who can replace Marvin on the perimeter, say Radmanovic…and putting the number 1 rebounding SF at the 3 spot, the answer is role reversal…Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams crash boards….
So stupid. WELL AT LEAST WE DONT BREAK UP THE CORE.
Smith + Perimeter PF + center
TRADE HORFORD.
Melvin
December 16th, 2011
10:30 am
I can’t wait until the 1st preseason game on Monday so we can actually dissect some game performances instead of each other basketball philosophy. #only72hrsleft
O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
10:32 am
Doc,
Woody definitely emphasized defense and rebounding more than LD. However, Woody’s emphasis didn’t make much of an impact. During Woody’s 5 year tenure with the Hawks, this was where they ranked in rebounding (from northcyde’s post).
05 – 06: 29th
06 – 07: 28th
07 – 08: 21st
08 – 09: 21st
09 – 10: 23rd
And even if LD doesn’t say it, every player should know defense and rebounding is what wins. The Hawks players just don’t have the mentality to make that commitment.
KevinM
December 16th, 2011
10:41 am
Travis Outlaw – amnesty victim of the Nets….4 yrs, 28M
Marvin – should be amnesty victim…..3 yrs 23M
We are missing a great opportunity here….
BTW, is the amnesty deadline today for 2011-12?
O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
10:42 am
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut,
1) Seems to me Drew is saying they can get the ball and start dribbling? I guess Joe can dribble but Marvin? Then whats the point of Teague..
I don’t think that’s what LD is saying. As AJ pointed out earlier, a fast break is not only initiated by dribbling.
Josh and Al are 2 of the better finishers in transition. So if JJ or Marvin can help in rebounding, that gives Al and Josh a head start down the court. And when JJ or Marvin rebound, they can make the outlet pass (to Teague for example), who can take it to the hole, or make another pass to Josh or Al close to the rim.
KevinM
December 16th, 2011
10:43 am
Take Marvin and Hindrich off the books in 2012? You have finally gained some room to maneuver.
Ken Strickland
December 16th, 2011
10:46 am
BIG RAY-”THE HAWKS HAVE BEEN DOING THINGS A$$ BACKWARDS AND YOU KNOW IT”. You had better believe that I know it, along with just about everyone eles. I did some research on the Suns and their ability to rebound, and compared them to the Hawks, and here’s what I came up with. Over the last 6yrs, the Suns have averaged 40.11RPG to the Hawks 38.45RPG, which is 1.66 more RPG than the Hawks.
I find it impossible to believe that 1.66 RPG is enough to make the difference between a team being able to run and not being able to run. I believe the ability to run, and run successfully, is the result of committment and having a PG that can make it happen. The Hawks under both Woodson and Drew chose not to embrace or utilize either.
You are correct about the Warriors, and the fact that their committment to running hasn’t gotten them anywhere. But that’s because they’ve never committmented to do anything else, especially when it comes to playing DEF. Their committment to running has certainly allowed them to put pts on the scoreboard, and provided their fans with a lot of exciting OFF basketball. However, using them as an example further proves my point that you don’t need to be a dominant rebounding team in order to run.
GRANDAD-You are a dirty old man, welcome to the club, hee hee. I believe I could honestly enjoy doing a whole host of things with DRMARYB, because I just love her spirit.
OBRIEN-Don’t forget, we’re not the only team that has to endure this schedule, and deal with the 3gms in a row and 4gms in 5nights. Those teams and players will be just as tired, if not more so. We’re still a young team, and our starting lineup just got younger, quicker, faster, and more athletic with Teague.
Imagine how greatly teams like the Celtics, who are old, and Orlando, who’s totally dependent on DHoward, will be affected when this schedule takes its toll on them. I’ll take an inexperienced Teague, even if he is inexperienced and still learning the ropes, as my starting PG anyday of the week over a broken down OFF and DEF liability like MBibby.
About the only thing Teague won’t give us that we got from Bibby is 3pt shooting. I’m not blaming Bibby, because he wasn’t responsible for the ravages of age, or the decision to play himself so many mins. Even with Bibby and his OFF/DEF limitations, the Hawks managed to accomplish quite a lot, compared to what we managed to accomplish before his arrival.
And Teague’s speed, quickness, ability to penetrate, and create for others, along with his DEF, will be more valuable to us than the ability to shoot 3s. I like the idea of having a PG that allows us the ability to attack and breakdown DEFs, rather than being limited to just shooting over it.
Look at the OFF production Bibby gave us over the last 2yrs, and his MPG. Then compare Teague’s production over that same period, and his MPG. Then see if you think Teague would have any difficulty whatsoever in equaling or exceeding Bibby’s production if given the same MPG and support.
Your concerns about Teague only tells me that he can only get better as the season progresses and he gains more experience and confidence, and so will the team. Teague’s inexperience, or whether he can duplicate his playoff performance during the regular season, isn’t that big of an issue. We know for an absolute certainty that he’ll bring his speed, quickness, athleticism, and DEF ability, which will be invaluable to the team.
O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
10:49 am
KevinM,
KevinM,
Today is the amnesty deadline for this season. But because the Nets are way under the cap, the amnesty opens up even more cap space for them, so they could offer a huge contract to another player. The Hawks don’t get much relief in salary cap space even if they amnesty Marvin. Plus the ASG might need to amnesty JJ down the road.
And lets not forget, Hawks are owned by Broke ASG millionaires who are trying to sell the team, while the Nets owned by a billionaire.
Big Ray
December 16th, 2011
10:49 am
Buddy Grizzard ,
It’s not that I don’t like Jason Collins. It’s that I wanted another decent big down low. A guy with more energy. We ain’t gonna get that, I know. Fact is, our rebounding backup big is Zaza, and losing him would hurt something fierce. But a backup PF? Not sold on Benson or Rolle, and while Marvin might grow into that role, he has never been a huge rebounder despite his size, and is liable to be the starting 3 anyhow.
The issue with Josh leading the fast break is that he had Bibby, who can’t keep up, starting at point guard. Or you had JC1 who would just as soon pull up, let the defense set and then take a contested long jump shot than go to the rack and draw contact.
That’s true. But watching him lead the break took away our best finisher and carried with it the 50-50 chance of a terrible turnover or a brilliant play. I’d just as soon not have those odds anymore. And…it was still happening with Hinrich in the game…though not as much.
Big Ray
December 16th, 2011
10:50 am
Northcyde ,
Your 4:08 am post explains it all, much better than I did. THANKYOU.
O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
10:55 am
Ken S,
Don’t forget, we’re not the only team that has to endure this schedule, and deal with the 3gms in a row and 4gms in 5nights..
Agreed. But how many of those teams have a first year starter at an important position (like PG) who is only entering his 3rd year? And how many of those teams will be relying on a second round draft pick entering his second season to be the backup PG?
And for the record, I am happy Teague is the starter. I think he will be better, and the team will be better.
But in my opinion, Hawks need a suitable backup PG who can play 10 – 15 minutes per game. I like Sy, and I think he has potential, but I don’t want us to rely on Teague and Sy as our primary PGs given the compressed schedule.
Big Ray
December 16th, 2011
10:58 am
Ken ,
No doubt we walked it up too much. Again, I say that had as much to do with trying to control the offense vs. wild play as it did with slow pgs. Kirk Hinrich had the speed, but we still didn’t run enough.
Playing defense leads to defensive rebounds (ideally), and that leads to fast breaks. Or, you simply get the defensive rebound and start the break.
Looking back at Phoenix, you have to look at their defensive rebounds, not their total rebounds. That’s where our problem lies. When the Suns had Stoudamire and Marion, their defensive rebound ratings were pretty darn good. Look at Northcyde’s 4:08 am post, and you’ll see what I mean. Those rebounds led to Nash-fed fast break points.
Our problem has been the number of offensive rebounds we kept giving up time after time, game after game. You can’t run the break with a bunch of speedy guys if you don’t get that defensive rebound. The Suns weren’t a very good defensive team, but they could damn sure get that defensive rebound and not give you 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances.
That’s my point. No, you don’t have to be a dominant rebounding team to run the break. But you need to be good on the defensive end when it comes to rebounds. Look at the Blazers….they were one of the slowest teams in the League, but they could rebound it. Kinda like in football, it’s about possession of the ball. Rebounding increases your time of possession of the ball, or in this case, the number of possessions you have.
So we can let Teague and the guys run like the Boston marathon if we want. But unless we defend and rebound the ball on the defensive end, we’ll be the Warriors.
Ra'mon
December 16th, 2011
11:00 am
Here’s something I just realized. Our depth sucks! But the depth here is better than what the Lakers, Miami Heat, Knicks, Magic, and a few other teams.
vava74
December 16th, 2011
11:00 am
The nets are clearing space to re-sign Humphries who will command much more than the mid-level.
He may not be much of an offensive player, but he’s a hustler who seems to know his limitations (unlike for instance Drew Gooden who tries to do much more than he is able to).
Tee
December 16th, 2011
11:06 am
We will have to brace ourselves for this season with the loss of JC. ASG remain to be not interested in anything having to do with NBA playoffs, much less a championship. Until they sell this team to an NBA type, we are doomed. It is a pure shame, no fault of the players.
Astro Joe
December 16th, 2011
11:17 am
KevinM, the amnesty clause is a one-time chip that can be used in the next 7 years. The odds that Marvin’s contract in the next 2 years will be wrose than Joe’s in hislast two years seems pretty remote (to me). I think it would be pretty short-sided to waste a one-time chip on marvin, especially when he may be more productive after his back surgery. If you want to see this team get better, think trade and not amnesty.
jojo sunshine
December 16th, 2011
11:22 am
Blow it up in trades with the Lakers and Orlando. The Lakeshow gets Howard and Hinrich. Orlando gets Bynum, Benson, and Radmonovich. The Hawks get Gasol. Now if the money would work that would be a great trade for the Hawks because we get rid of Howard on our side and we gain a scoring big man to couple with Joe Johnson.
vava74
December 16th, 2011
11:25 am
Ra’mon,
Yep!!!! And on a condensed schedule!!!!
PointGuardWisdom
December 16th, 2011
11:26 am
Scottie Reynolds is available and he is a proven winner…could be the Tebow of basketball
Grandmaster JeJe
December 16th, 2011
11:30 am
We NEED DEPTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Grandmaster JeJe
December 16th, 2011
11:30 am
Enter your comments here
Grandmaster JeJe
December 16th, 2011
11:31 am
Wtf is the deal with Stack? Is he a training camp consultant or are we signing this guy?
Rod from College Park
December 16th, 2011
11:33 am
“But in my opinion, Hawks need a suitable backup PG who can play 10 – 15 minutes per game. I like Sy, and I think he has potential, but I don’t want us to rely on Teague and Sy as our primary PGs given the compressed schedule.”
That is not an opinion, that is common sense. All this we are going to run, and Sy and McGrady can play backup point guard crap Drew is spitting is garbage. We need a backup point guard. That is obvious. No wordplay from the coach or management will change that. We also need another big who can rebound. Hinrich is not T.O. He will be out as long as expected, and probably longer. This group tries to sell us anything. LOL
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 16th, 2011
11:34 am
O’Brien
pardon my response format but I dont know how to bold nor italix etc. Here’s my statement..
1) Seems to me Drew is saying they can get the ball and start dribbling? I guess Joe can dribble but Marvin? Then whats the point of Teague..
Here’s the context.
“The [6-8] shooting guard with the chiseled body and the [6-8], athletic small forward should not be average or slightly better at defensive rebounding for their position.
“I’m going to challenge both of those guys this year to be better rebounders than they have been in the past,” Drew said. “There is no reason those guys can’t become better rebounders. They have the size. They have the bodies. Rebounding is a dirty job. We are going to challenge them. When we can get the two or the three on glass, they can initiate a fast break effectively. They’ve got to pull more weight in that area. We’ve got to get more rebounding from those spots.”
When we can get the two or the three on glass, they can initiate a fast break effectively.
Translates to:
“When we can get Joe and Marvin on the glass they can initiate a fast break effectively.”
As opposed to
“Josh is a pretty good ball-handler in the open court but he often tried to make what Larry Drew called “hero” passes that got swallowed up in traffic, sailed out of bounds or clanged off the backboard. (Frequently heard from Dominique Wilkins during those clips: “There’s where Josh needs to give the ball to a guard. I can’t say it enough.” And oft-repeated by Bob Rathbun: “Josh with the rebound. . . throws it away.”)”
If we were talking about outlets then, Smith vs Joe vs Marvin outletting, should bear little to no distinction.
We’re talking about Smith vs Joe vs Marvin handling the ball and initiating the break…
Trying to find a reason to keep Marvin on… For his ballhandling… When we have Teague… When we have Smith leading the entire NBA SF class in HoF class rebounding.
Instead of Smith crash boards as an SF outlet to Teague leading, Vlad trailing for 3 in the 4th quarter we’ll have
Marvin rebound and lead the break, Smith with no jumper trailing the perimeter, and with Marvin playing point Teague will fill the lane, go up for a dunk, get hammered. Out for significant back to back stretch and Season over.
lol Marvin in for ballhandling.
#GoHawks
SteveW
December 16th, 2011
11:34 am
I’m just glad Jamal signed on the West Coast. I would hat to see him shooting daggers from 25ft in New York, Miami, or someplace that could do us some real damage.
Best to you Jamal!!
HOF Voter
December 16th, 2011
11:37 am
Somebody on this blog said that Amare is a HOF’er.
He is not even close. And that is a fact. There goes the credibility.
Oops, it was already gone.
FreshFromATL
December 16th, 2011
11:44 am
SMH @ Jeff.Joe.Josh.Leuer.Bogut.
This dude has literally taken his antics to every website: http://hawksbasketblog.com/2011/12/15/thursdays-training-camp-update/
Just check out the comments section, SMH.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2011
11:49 am
Flavor Flav:
to bold something, write “strong” in angle brackets (), then write what you want to bold, then write “/strong” in angle brackets
to italicize something, do the same, but write “em” instead of “strong”
Heisenberg
December 16th, 2011
11:49 am
Watching Jeff Van Gundy on Sports Center and he was talking about how the teams like OK City, Memphis, Indiana, & Chicago have an advantage because of little or no roster turnover and returning coaching staff. No mention of Hawks who should fit in that group. Maybe ATL should sign Kris Kardashian. Not sure how much help he would be on the court but at least the Hawks would get some attention.
However, I think it would be funny if Dallas did. Imagine Kris and former in-law Lamar Odom on same team….awkward.
Ken Strickland
December 16th, 2011
11:56 am
BIG RAY-I firmly believe we’ll be a much better rebounding team than we’ve been in the past. Why do I feel that way?
1-SF MWilliams is finally healthy. I don’t know how much his back problems contributed to his poor rebounding and overall play, but I know for certain that it had to have an effect.
2-PF JSmith lost 30+lbs, but not the strength he developed over the past few off season. His added speed, quickness, and mobility will allow him to rebound better.
I believe our entire frontline will benefit greatly from finally having a solid perimeter DEF. It means no more dependence on the switching DEF, which far too often left them on the perimeter defending PGs and SGs. It also means our PGs and SGs won’t end up under the basket trying to rebound with Cs and PFs, after switching with our Cs and PFs.
With a solid perimeter DEF, our frontline players will be able to remain near the basket and get rebounding position, which means our DEF rebounding should definitely improve. In the past, our frontline players were forced to compensate for the DEF liabilities of Bibby and Jamal.
In addition, they were expected to drop back and try to get rebounding position under the basket and challenge for DEF rebounds. Hell, with what our frontline players were being forced to do, it’s amazing they were able to rebound as well as they did.
Teague’s speed, quickness, athleticism, and DEF, especially his DEF, will transform the Hawks into a totally different team, both offensive and defensively. There were reasons for us not being a better rebounding team(injuries, poor perimeter DEF, poor coaching decisions), and those reasons no longer exist.
SteveW
December 16th, 2011
11:57 am
Lessons on how to speak ASGese, Sundese, and Drewese:
“The Hawks are not for sale.” Translation – Would somebody pleeeeaaaase give us Cash for this Team!!??? Please? We need money!!
“I love the kid. I’ve never stopped believing in him. I’m here to develop Jeff Teague.” Translation – When my son graduates in a couple of years, I should have destroyed Jeff Teague enough where I get to Coach my son. Isn’t that right dear?
“We have never offered our 1st round pick for sale” Translation – Rats!! How did the guy from Yahoo Sports find out? Rick, do what you can to dump that 24th pick for the highest 2nd pick you can, preferably the 31st pick. You’ll get a small bonus, and if you don’t it’s your job! Do you understand me! We need money!!!
“We like our core” Translation – We’ve spent enough money and trades are too risky. And the stupid fans will keep giving us their hard earned cash while we sell Lakers jersey’s too them. No trades today!! Unless of course we can save a ton of money, and still trick our fans.
“Our goal is to be one of the top 4 seeds in the East” Translation – No way where spending the money for a championship here!!
“We will do whatever we can to re-sign Jamal. We like Jamal Crawford” Translation – Bye!! Thanks for the memories! Don’t let the door hit you on the way out!
“We like our Bigs” Translation – You are not to cross the luxury tax line, do you hear me! We’re waiting for that half a billion to come in. Somebody out there has it. We have agents swarming Asia right now trying to find the right fit. I don’t care if it’s Kris Humphries, Hollins, Dalembert, whoever, no luxury tax, understand!!??
“We think we can get by until Kirk get’s back with Sy, Wanamaker, Tmac or somebody backing up the Point” Translation – This is a win win for everybody. ASG saves money. Sund doesn’t have to work to find a replacement. And Larry can punish Teague night after night until he breaks down, so he can say he’s not durable, so he can start anybody but Jeff Teague. Until Larry Drew Jr. gets out of college that is. Isn’t that right dear?
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
December 16th, 2011
12:02 pm
As soon as Hinrich gets back Teague gonna be back on the bench. Begging for playing time like Keith Sweat. Drew = Woody Jr.
FIRE SUND
KevinM
December 16th, 2011
12:03 pm
Astro, we’re going to sit on this amnesty card like we do every time we get a trade exception. I am trying to figure out what Sund does good here. Other than the JC1 trade and drafting Teague, Sund’s success average is below .500.
Same thing with doing any trades on draft day; we haven’t made a splash in the draft since what Dominique? That is truly sad.
I understand that it is not solely his decision. I find it unthinkable that Joe will ever be amnestied by us after annointing him our leader.
It would have to come from another ownership group and GM.
For the production we will get from Marvin (10/5) in 30 mpg, I think we can do better like Dallas did with Lamar Odom. I’ll take that money and go get me a better backup PG and C than what we have. We have plenty of PFs, so that is an area not needed here.
So many options, so little decision making that Sund applies for improving a roster.
We’re dealing with average results here.
vava74
December 16th, 2011
12:12 pm
SteveW
December 16th, 2011
11:57 am
CLASSIC STUFF
O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
12:13 pm
Ken S,
-SF MWilliams is finally healthy. I don’t know how much his back problems contributed to his poor rebounding and overall play, but I know for certain that it had to have an effect..
Good Point. But one of the reasons he was hurt was because he stumbled and bumbled a lot (how many times did we see him hit the floor? A lot). Will his surgery heal his clumsiness? Time will tell. Because what if he starts falling down again? How long before his back acts up again?
JSmith lost 30+lbs, but not the strength he developed over the past few off season. His added speed, quickness, and mobility will allow him to rebound better..
Josh’s biggest problem when it came to rebounding was not a lack of speed, quickness, or mobility. It was a lack of technique. More often than not, Josh tried to get a rebound by outjumping the person, instead of using his position to box them out. I think his technique and commitment to rebounding is what he needs to work on.
Overall, the biggest issues with the Hawks (imo) is their mentality and commitment to doing what it takes to win. Hopefully Teague being the PG will provide a spark to the team.
Ra'mon
December 16th, 2011
12:14 pm
Big Ray, it wasn’t a 50-50 chance Josh would lead to a turnover. It was a 80-20 percent chance the play would end up in a great play for the Hawks. I’d take those chances any given time.
Astro Joe
December 16th, 2011
12:15 pm
Kevin, there are 4 teams who advance to the second round of each conference. 4 of 15. I don’t view that as “average” result.
If there are 15 girls in the room and you leave with one of the 4 finest girls there, did you take home an average chick?
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 16th, 2011
12:15 pm
MC I saw your post at 11:39 and I came off rude. I apologize.
But Smith clearly needs a stretch 4 and thats what Vlad is for. A defensive center? We have Collins and Zaza.
How can you construct an offense with Smith, Horford and Collins. Smith is not a “perimeter” player. You shoot the ball he rebounds at the TOP of the NBA SF class, he sets screens, he gets steals and transition dunks. Hes not an All Star if you move him outside in a halfcourt.
And the only reason to move him outside would be to accomodate Horford. Horford who does nothing excellent as a PF except try to score and wind up passing… to the perimeter. We had Crawford there in the past.
Why are we moving Horford to PF instead of just trading him for upgrades? His defense at PF is not superstar level and his lack of offense mitigates his impact even further.
Smith inside
perimeter player
center
Smith outside
Horford “inside” (defense improves, offense declines)
center inside
Smith and Horford are redundant. Add Marvin if you want but hes undersized and not boxing out any PFs. Vlad is underwhelming.
22yo Leuer/ 22yo Motiejunas should be in this training camp. Not Radmanovic and Marvin and a bevy of over-the-hill perimeter players. That makes us knowingly undersized. For the FIFTH year in a row.
O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
12:17 pm
From hoopshype;
In fact, Stoudemire said he has worked a lot on his ever-improving perimeter game and could play the role of the “stretch” forward to leave the pick-and-rolls for Chandler.
“I’ve been working on my three-point shot,” Stoudemire said. Would D’Antoni mind seeing his 6-11 All-Star power forward pulling up for threes? “As long as he makes ‘em,” D’Antoni said, “I don’t care.”.
What is it with big men wanting to take 3’s?
Astro Joe
December 16th, 2011
12:18 pm
OB, yeah. Hawks biggest issues are the neck up and I don’t see how Teague and his athleticsim change that. It may help hide it but eventually, athleticism can’t hide poor decision-making.
Astro Joe
December 16th, 2011
12:19 pm
may mask it (poor decision-making) but it won’t fix it. UGH.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 16th, 2011
12:21 pm
Kevin, there are 4 teams who advance to the second round of each conference. 4 of 15. I don’t view that as “average” result.
If there are 15 girls in the room and you leave with one of the 4 finest girls there, did you take home an average chick?
———————————–
7 of those girls are underage/not ready (missed playoffs) but when they’re mature (lotto picks), and only 2 of 15 get to home base (ECF) and 1 gets married (NBA Finals) and you keep coming back to the same girl who wont take you all the way…Why you end up looking like a simp, a doofus, a moron.
She probably is hiding something…disease, transgendered. Well you can keep going with her/him but me, and I hope the majority of us, would say no hard feelings, dump the broad and upgrade to erase the memory.
#goHawks
i_am_soulstar
December 16th, 2011
12:23 pm
Well stated Astro
Ra'mon
December 16th, 2011
12:23 pm
O’brien, Josh’s biggest problem with rebounding wasn’t technique, it was the scheming by both Woody and LD. Horford only averaged 1 rebound more than Josh. Even though, Josh was instructed to not hit the offensive glass, but to get back on defense to deter any fast break opportunity of the opposition. So with a better defensive back court, Josh rebounding numbers will go up (and quite realistically pass Al’s) just based on more opportunities for him to crash the glass. Notice how you’ve never heard LD say that Josh needed to hit the offensive glass more, out of all of the critiques he gave to Josh. Combined, Josh and Al are ranked in the top 8 of PF/C duos in rebounding in the league. To be ‘undersized’ that is a great stat.
baby girl
December 16th, 2011
12:26 pm
my team should get agent zero. I just love the way he plays the game. he can score from anywhere and would do well in iso offense. I love the hawks. 2012 champs baby
Ken Strickland
December 16th, 2011
12:28 pm
OBRIEN-I’m certain everyone but JTeague himself had the same concerns when he was thrust into the starting PG role against the NBAs top DEF team and MVP, and during the playoff semifinals no less. Wasn’t he younger, and even more inexperienced then than he is now? After his successful playoff experience, do you think he has more or less confidence in himself than he had then?
You’re embracing the same type of fear, apprehension, and negative thinking that influenced both Woodson and Drew to limit Teagues mins, opportunities, growth, and chance to develop. He won’t be running a team with a lot of young inexperienced players. He’ll get plenty of help and encouragement both on and off the court, which is a drastic change from his past experiences.
Teague’s youth and stamina should help him endure the rigors of the upcoming schedule better than top PGs like RRhondo, JNelson, DWilliams, and SNash, and CPaul. In addition to dealing with the rigors of the upcoming schedule, they have to deal with a combination of age, and for some, physical issues, such as bad knees.
We’ve seen too many young talented PGs emerge over the last decade to have as much doubt as some of you seem to be having in Teagues ability to become one of them. I can’t remember when I’ve been as excited about a Hawks team as I am about this yrs team.
Rod from College Park
December 16th, 2011
12:28 pm
“Good Point. But one of the reasons he was hurt was because he stumbled and bumbled a lot (how many times did we see him hit the floor? A lot). Will his surgery heal his clumsiness? Time will tell. Because what if he starts falling down again? How long before his back acts up again?”
Exactly!!! He needed back surgery, because he stays on the ground. So now, all of the sudden, his back surgery is going to keep him upright. LOL