Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 5
The Hawks want to run more often than they did last season. It makes sense when you look at their personnel.
“They call can get up and down the floor, which gives us I think a tremendous advantage in transition if we commit to the run, which I am really trying to get these guys to do,” Larry Drew said. “Jeff [Teague] can really exchange ends. Joe [Johnson] can run. Marvin [Williams] can run. Josh Smith is a deer and Al [Horford] is probably as fast as any five man in the league.
“Running, to me, it has to be habit-forming. It can’t be just a sometimes thing. When you develop that habit it becomes a part of who you are.”
We’ve heard this before. Before last season the Hawks said they would run more often. And then, according to Synergy Sports Technology, they ended up ranking 11th among Eastern Conference teams in the percentage of their total possessions used (shot, free throw or turnover) in transition and tied for sixth in points per possession in transition (1.14).
Turnovers were the biggest reason the Hawks weren’t a more efficient running team: 13 percent of their transition possessions ended with a turnover, worst in the East. Josh Smith was the leading offender with 20.6 percent of his transition possessions used ended with a turnover. Al Horford wasn’t far behind at 18.2 percent but he only used 77 transition possessions while Josh used a team-high 223.
I looked at the video of Josh’s 44 turnovers in transition. It confirmed my subjective view that the vast majority of his turnovers in transition are by way of bad passes: 32 of the 44 by my count, with eight coming on the dribble (though I thought two of those should have been credited to others for bad passes to Josh) and four on charging fouls.
Josh is a pretty good ball-handler in the open court but he often tried to make what Larry Drew called “hero” passes that got swallowed up in traffic, sailed out of bounds or clanged off the backboard. (Frequently heard from Dominique Wilkins during those clips: “There’s where Josh needs to give the ball to a guard. I can’t say it enough.” And oft-repeated by Bob Rathbun: “Josh with the rebound. . . throws it away.”)
Josh would be better off finishing the play himself. He shot 69.8 percent in transition, induced fouls on 14.3 of possessions used and had 15 and-1s–all team highs–and his 69.8 field-goal percentage was second to Al (76.8).
Al, by the way, also led the Hawks with 1.3 points per possession used in transition, suggesting that he should be involved in the fast break more often. So should Marvin Williams, who was second on the team in the percentage of fouls drawn on transition possessions used (13.8 percent) with a low turnover percentage (5.2)
This is where Teague comes in.
“It’s perfect for me,” Teague said of the plan to run more. “That’s the big thing I tried to come in and preach to the guys when I got here is I want to start pushing the ball. We are still young. We are a young team we’ve got to use that to our advantage and use it.”
I’m thinking Al and Marvin should benefit from Teague making more of the decisions on the break. I’m thinking Josh will give it up to Teague because he knows Teague will run with him. It’s not hard to imagine that combination regularly ending with lob dunks, especially since Josh is lighter and faster.
“He looks a lot more explosive, too,” Teague said. “I see him dunking the ball every time now.”
Teague looked to run more than any other Hawks player Last season he had the highest percentage of possessions used in transition among Hawks regulars (23). He turned it over on 9.6 percent of those transition possessions used, drew fouls on 11.4 percent and scored 1.13 points per possession.
Just 10.8 percent of Mike Bibby’s possessions used were in transition, though he was efficient (1.29 points per possession) in large part because he made 16 of 33 3-point attempts on the break, and 13 percent of Jamal’s possessions used were in transition with a good foul percentage (10.7).
To run, the Hawks will have to rebound. Look at how each player’s s defensive rebounding rate ranks among NBA players at their position with more than 15 minutes per game, and it’s not hard to see who needs to pick it up (all rankings according to Hoopdata.com): Al (13th among centers), Josh (15th PFs), Teague (tied for 13th PGs but played less than 15 minutes per game) Joe (25th SGs), Marvin (23rd SFs)
The 6-7 shooting guard with the chiseled body and the 6-9, athletic small forward should not be average or slightly better at defensive rebounding for their position.
“I’m going to challenge both of those guys this year to be better rebounders than they have been in the past,” Drew said. “There is no reason those guys can’t become better rebounders. They have the size. They have the bodies. Rebounding is a dirty job. We are going to challenge them. When we can get the two or the three on glass, they can initiate a fast break effectively. They’ve got to pull more weight in that area. We’ve got to get more rebounding from those spots.”
So, to summarize how the Hawks might improve their transition offense: Run more often, let Teague makes the decisions, send Josh to the rim, get Marvin and Al more involved, and prod J.J. and Marvin to rebound more so there will be more opportunities to run.
Camp report
- Got to see more scrimmage action today. The thing that stood out was Pape Sy’s defensive aggressiveness. He made hay chasing around J.J. and didn’t back down.
- Is there a chance Pape can help the Hawks this year? “There’s a chance,” Drew said. “He really looks good thus far. It looks like playing in the D-League and playing over in Europe helped him because he’s playing at a different level from a confidence standpoint. When he came in for the first camp he might have been a little overwhelmed. But now he looks more comfortable and doesn’t have that deer in the headlight look in his eye.”
- Physically, Sy has the potential to be a good defender. “He’s got the quickness, the size, the length to be a pretty good defensive player, particularly at the top of the floor,” Drew said. “Playng against Jeff every day really helps him out a lot. He has to adjust how to defend guys with the kind of speed. You are not going to go against a guy with that speed every day so if you can keep [Teague] in front of you, then you have a pretty good chance with everyone else.”
- Drew said he still views Sy as a point guard. Teague, Sy, Donald Sloan, Brad Wanamaker and Tracy McGrady are taking turns. “We have to look at this thing realitsicaly,” Drew said. “God forbid that Jeff is out, then we are scrambling at the point guard spot. We have to make sure that we look at each guy individually and very seriously. Hopefully one of those guys will break away from the pack.”
- Kirk Hinrich shot baskets after practice. He said he asked his doctor for clearance on Monday. Hinrich still can’t move his left arm from side to side and can’t lift it very far above his head.
- It looks like the market for Jamal Crawford softened once Chauncey Billups, Vince Carter, Richard Hamilton and Gilbert Arenas became available. Mike Wells of the Indy Star reported Crawford turned down a two-year, $10 million offer (with opt 2012-13 opt out) from the Pacers and SI.com’s Chris Mannix says Crawford is considering similar offers from the Kings and Blazers and less money from the Knicks.
- Check my Twitter feed for comments from Chris Webber, Steve Smith and Kenny Smith about why they think none of the superstar players include the Hawks on their lists of preferred destinations. I’m writing a story on the topic for Sunday’s AJC.
- To those who asked in last blog: Posted late because I had to break down these transition stats. I also heard Hawks were trying to somehow get back in the Jamal sweepstakes and had to check it out (they’re not). But glad to hear you missed me.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
354 comments Add your comment
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 14th, 2011
8:57 pm
OCCUPY PHILLIPS ARENA!
I wish we could organize a crew and march on the ASKG executive offices and show our disdain for:
Ownership Brutality!
Perhaps, we can get the Thrasher Fans on board to get these owners Amnestied out of Atlanta! Its time to go POSTAL!
CP3 identified Atlanta as a team he would sign an extension with, but we didn’t even pick up the phone to answer the call? It’s past time for ASKG to get the hella on! What did they do? Announced the opening of a full service restaurant named: RED? What the hella is that about?
We now know where their head is at, and it ain’t about basketball operations! I don’t care what they “LIKE” about their core – I really don’t. We get nothing for Christmas – but re-wrapped old toys and a load of bull sh!t. I’d rather have a crack-pipe in my stocking. Imma’ need to get high to kill the pain IF I gotta’ watch Marvin fall down one more time.
Good Night everyone! Stick a fork in me – I’m done!
I can’t believe I was hoping we get CP3 or Dwight? Not in my life time – it ain’t gonna’ happen with ASKG in the way
What a seismic shift when the Clipps eclipse the Hawks. We shoulda’ all saw it coming when Stan traded Nique to the Clipps for drooling mouth Danny Manning! We shoulda’ seen the train coming then.
I feel dumb for believing.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 14th, 2011
9:01 pm
FIRE WOODY
KevinM
December 14th, 2011
9:04 pm
Well, the Clippers actually have a plan….Sund and the ASG? Not so much….make money and make us just competitive enough to keep the fan base interested.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 14th, 2011
9:04 pm
FIRE SUND
AMNESTY ASG
PEOPLE ACT LIKE THIS YEAR IS DIFFERENT. EVERY YEAR IS THE SAME ISH.
JOE SAYS T-MAC IS A VOCAL LEADER.
DAMN RIGHT HE IS. YOU AREN’T A LEADER AT ALL YOU MONEY-STEALER
new guy
December 14th, 2011
9:16 pm
Grandad I thought you said this was a holy woman who preached on Sundays?
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 14th, 2011
8:39 pm
Blog B ! T C H!
_____________
“30 post, page 6 most current page
Blog Hogs
Score
JeJe 6
Drmaryb 4
KevinM 4
___________
page blog 30
Blog hogs 14
____________
others 16/13 = 1.23 average other bloggers”
- NOBODY -
____________
F U! B!TCH!!!
O'Brien
December 14th, 2011
9:16 pm
Melvin,
Did the Clippers overpay for CP3? Probably. But it also increases the chances of keeping Blake Griffin, because big men like to play with PGs who can help elevate their game.
Hopefully, everyone stays healthy, because I would like to see what the Clipps can do.
ryan
December 14th, 2011
9:19 pm
I guess the restaurant called Red its true what they say you are what you eat ASG this kind of reminds of the old Charlotte Hornets ownership fans got rid there owner win they traded Kobe .
O'Brien
December 14th, 2011
9:19 pm
John Canzano: Source: Jamal Crawford asking for year No. 2 of 2-year deal to be a player option…. either Sacramento or Portland… either place. Twitter.
ryan
December 14th, 2011
9:26 pm
Hornets will be known as the franchise that traded two superstars away to the LA area first it was Kobe Bryant and now as NO Hornets Chris Paul .
Snap
December 14th, 2011
9:28 pm
Occupy this blog page! Oh, Drmaryb is already doing that. Continue.
Melvin
December 14th, 2011
9:31 pm
Clippers will need a SG since they traded Gordon. I hope Crawford lands there….
ryan
December 14th, 2011
9:37 pm
Atlanta sports fans just frustrated its hard to see other teams make big moves when these Atlanta franchises sit on there hands and do nothing that were the anger comes from we are tired of being mediocre maybe this team can do something who knows hopefully we get to see Teague play .
Astro Joe
December 14th, 2011
9:39 pm
KBergCBS Ken Berger
Bulls officially announce the signing of Rip Hamilton. It’s a three-year deal with two fully guaranteed.
Astro Joe
December 14th, 2011
9:42 pm
Has the brilliant Acie Law landed someplace yet?
ryan
December 14th, 2011
9:47 pm
Any news on Gilbert Arneas are the Hawks showing any interest at all .
superiorblogman
December 14th, 2011
9:52 pm
Trade Zaza, Kirk, and a 2nd for Kaman
Teague
Joe
Josh
Al
Kaman
T-MAC
Marvin
bums
Rather have that than
Joe
Jeff
Marvin as a starter is a bum
Josh
AL
T-Mac
bums
Ra'mon
December 14th, 2011
9:59 pm
People who say Joe is stealing money, are being unrealistic. I’m not 6′6, but if ASG came and knocked on my door and offered me Joe’s contract, I’d sign with the closest pen that I had. And any player in the NBA player would. Joe’s contract would’ve been offered to him by over half of the franchises in the league, if they had him. Look at the contract Chicago gave Boozer, or what NYK gave Amare, even with their checkered injury history. Truthfully, Joe would’ve been the 3rd highest paid player on the Celtics last season. He would’ve been the 3rd highest paid player on Orlando. Joe’s contract isn’t what’s killing the franchise. What’s killing the franchise is ASG’s lying saying they would be willing to go in luxury tax, when they’ve offered NO proof of the kind. The Hawks have had the lowest payroll in the 2nd round of the playoffs for the last three seasons! That says enough.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 14th, 2011
10:02 pm
Death Certificate!
I buried -NOBODY- @ 8:39PM. Rigir Mortis has set in, no moment of silence will be necessary. Flip IT over, (face down) and gas it – so, I can plant my foot in IT’S azz.
Move on people, there is nothing to see here. Next blog troll puh-lease!
______________
“Atlanta sports fans just frustrated its hard to see other teams make big moves when these Atlanta franchises sit on there hands and do nothing that were the anger comes from we are tired of being mediocre maybe this team can do something who knows hopefully we get to see Teague play.” -ryan-
__________
You Sir, have nailed it. (Nuff Said)
steven A.
December 14th, 2011
10:05 pm
Latest rumor is Hawks plan to bring in 7″1″ Alexis Ajinca and Eric Dampier. I hope Ajinca makes the
roster.
Astro Joe
December 14th, 2011
10:08 pm
FisolaNYDN Frank Isola
Knicks signed Mike Bibby and are reportedly interested in Mo Evans. Both once played for, you guessed it, Mike Woodson. Notice a trend?
steven A.
December 14th, 2011
10:11 pm
Please bring in Alexis Ajinca. “best offensive center left on the market”
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 14th, 2011
10:11 pm
* Rigor Mortis
Ken Strickland
December 14th, 2011
10:12 pm
With Bibby’s departure, and the way the team played in last yrs playoffs with PGs that played DEF, it appears our players realized how much better the Hawks can be with Teague and Hinrich as our 2 primary PGs. I believe this was the motivation for most of our returning players to go all out this off season to get into top physical condition.
They know LDrew will no longer be able to bury Teague on the bench and rely on Bibby and Jamal. He’ll finally have to rely on DEF, rather than continuing Woodson’s habit of relying almost exclusively on OFF players that are total DEF liabilities. They also know the Hawks will finally be able and willing to run, and run consistently.
Not having a one dimensional DEF liability as our starting PG, or a streaky, ball hogging, DEF liability as our primary backup PG/SG, will definitely help our overall OFF, and DEF. With Bibby and Jamal’s departure, I see Horford, Josh, Marvin, and JJ getting more touches and becoming more involved offensively.
Our frontline players will finally be able to provide interior help DEF for each other, rather than for 2 defensively challenged PGs. Barring serious injuries, this is going to be a very competitive team, and will definitely challenge for a top 3 seed during the regular season. This yrs team finally has a legimate chance to get past the 2nd rd.
ryan
December 14th, 2011
10:13 pm
Dampier would be good pick up also i guess Sund must have back tracked about being comfortable with his bigs .
brigadierjerry
December 14th, 2011
10:15 pm
The Hawks reminds me of the New York Mets. Are we sure that ASG didnt invest any money in Madoff ponzi scheme? If we think about it even small market teams are making moves but the Hawks are making small time moves. One thing with this 66 game schedule there are going to be a lot of games condensed in a small schedule and the Hawks are going to have to use their bench more often than in years past.
I think more so now than ever to really compete to make an ECF or finals u need depth. I dont mind losing Crawford but the Hawks should’ve gotten a replacement for him. Reggie Williams who isnt a bad shooter The thing is also some of these player signings around the league are signing for cheap but the management doesnst want to go into the luxury tax. To have a TPE and possibly not use it? It just doesnt make sense. It is the equivalent of having the money to buy jack pepper cheese but claiming poverty and getting government cheese instead while the money is hidden in cans in the dirt in your backyard!!
A person like Reggie Evans hawks could offer full MLE which would be a wise move. He is a tough defender and a good rebounder. Hawks just needs to make moves to fill their weaknesses.
Astro Joe
December 14th, 2011
10:18 pm
I don’t personally believe either rumor. If Sund doesn’t like the young, skinny bigs in camp now (Benson & Rolle), why would he go out and get a different young, skinny big? And Dampier was so bad with the Heat, they preferred to sign Eddy Curry to a contract.
ole riche
December 14th, 2011
10:20 pm
now that the clips have billups and paul, i read on espn that they plan to waive Baron Davis. He could be a good fit as a veteran point guard to back up Jeff Teauge. MC, you think the hawks could sniff around into that. Seems like a good fit to the naked eye.
Astro Joe
December 14th, 2011
10:20 pm
I remember when some suggested that with playing time Hilton Armstrong could be this or that. Where are those guys wanting to see more of Armstrong, now that he is a FA and the Hawks have opted for rail-thin youngsters?
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 14th, 2011
10:25 pm
Ken Strickland – I needed the PMA antidote badly.
Briggs – I needed the rationale for my upset-ness badly.
I’m PMS-ing, old and peed-off!
No Excuses! I stand behind all my words, because I lost my BP and Mind tonight! I can do that – imma’ b!tch!!!
Grandad
December 14th, 2011
10:25 pm
new guy
“Grandad I thought you said
this was a holy woman who preached on Sundays?”
[..r e drmaryb..]
I’ll lay hands on her, that ought to fix her right up.
hey, hey, hey
Astro Joe
December 14th, 2011
10:25 pm
SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
Baron Davis’ agent Todd Ramasar tells Y! Sports his client has a serious herniated disk injury and will be out 8-10 weeks minimum.
And even if that wasn’t the case, we don’t want any parts of Baron Davis.
ryan
December 14th, 2011
10:31 pm
I guess i will Benson a chance Davis is hurt real bad we should not take a chance anyone other than Arneas who should we target that left .
Grandad
December 14th, 2011
10:32 pm
steven A.
-sources please-
Regarding Ajinca;
I could care less about Dampier.
I have been an Ajinca advocate for two years.
So…sources…please…! – and – Thanks in advance.
ole riche
December 14th, 2011
10:33 pm
unaware he was injured. i think we need a vet to back up jeff
doc
December 14th, 2011
10:36 pm
saban says we want national championships. lsu as a teamset that goal last spring and credit that to staying focused each week. cmr talked it down the year they were picked to win it. you said it as an apologist making excuses. he set the bar too low that year and every year as it is about winning beyond tha game.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 14th, 2011
10:38 pm
@ northcyde is Horford Rudy Gay or is he Zach Randolph?
Were set on keeping Horford around when he does nothing elite.
PG – Paul
G – Billups
F – Butler
PF – Griffin
C – Jordan
PG – 6′1 Teague (young gun) vs 6′1 Paul (MVP caliber)
G – 6′8 Johnson (Power 2) vs 6′4 Billups
F – 6′8 Smith (Power 3) vs 6′7 Butler (Perimeter 3)
PF – 7′0 Leuer (Perimeter 4) vs Griffin (Power 4)
C – 7′0 Bogut vs 6′11 Jordan
As long as you keep Horford you will be under the tax and thus undersized and underskilled.
You can sign Dalembert but if you want Smith inside where does that put Horford? At the 3 point line? No it puts Smith there because hes more natural and comfy on the perimeter. Are you guys stupid?
If you bench Marvin you need to replace him with a perimeter. Hence Jamal, Flip, MO Evans. If we get sme luxury center ie Dalembert then where does Smith play?
Smith needs a perimeter 4. Joe needs a perimeter 4. Jeff needs a vstretch 4.
superiorblogman
December 14th, 2011
10:39 pm
Ajinca is garbage. He is 7″2 and can’t average anymore than 2.5 rebounds a game.
doc
December 14th, 2011
10:40 pm
gdad we need your guy anjinca bad. send an email to rick.
superiorblogman
December 14th, 2011
10:44 pm
Zaza, Kirk, and a 2nd for Kaman. Act like you have a clue Sund. It is not about you liking your bigs because you are not selling any tickets and no-one will go to a game to see the bigs you like, but plenty will go to see bigs they like and actually think can make the team better. No hope with this lineup. We have seen Marvin fail enough to label him a failure, we have seen enough of Al at C, yes it will be fun to see Teague grow but unless he is a Chris Paul or Monta Ellis he will not put anyone in the seats or give any new hope. Get on your job and get some more players in here that can promote hope.
dragon slayer
December 14th, 2011
10:46 pm
God, in you we trust, Its your people we are afraid of .
ole riche
December 14th, 2011
10:54 pm
Kaman is in the Paul deal. Not coming to Atl
Grandad
December 14th, 2011
10:59 pm
superiorblogman
AA has avg 8 rebs & 2 blks per 36 min played [career]
last yr only 24 games 11 min per.
7-2, tremendous wing-span, wi shot-blking potential,
good frame to gain wgt.
I’ve studied film and the kid can play.
needs the right situation
He has all the potential in the world,
we should roll the dice – what could it hurt.
This kid is no Benson / Armstrong / Rolle
he’s a legit 7-2 with skill.
“I’m talking about talent, skill, ability”
I know of what I speak.
Now, he still must perform.
What is the harm ?
We have nothing anywhere near this kid’s talent level as a Big;
either now, or on the horizon.
Sign him now.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 14th, 2011
11:01 pm
“They all can get up and down the floor, which gives us a tremendous advantage in transition if we commit to the run, which I am really trying to get these guys to do,” Hawks coach Larry Drew said. “Jeff can really exchange ends. Joe can run. Marvin can run. Josh Smith is a deer and Al is probably as fast as any five man in the league.”
I read this same thing like 4 years ago. OF COURSE IT WAS 4 YEARS AGO BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD THE SAME DAMN CORE FOR THAT LONG + 2 YEARS
*Yawn*
FIRE SUND
Grandmaster JeJe
December 14th, 2011
11:01 pm
WHEN SUND DID NOT RETAIN WOODY, HE SAID WE NEEDED A NEW VOICE
MAYBE WE NEED A NEW CORE.
WE WENT TO THE 2ND ROUND 2 YEARS IN A ROW, THEN WE BEAT ORLANDO AND LOSE IN THE 2ND ROUND AGAIN AND PEOPLE THINK WE’VE IMPROVED
Melvin
December 14th, 2011
11:07 pm
“Updated weights on #Hawks roster: J. Collins 255 (was 265), J. Smith 225 (250), M. Williams 245 (240), Horford 250 (245)”
Uh oh, Marvin is up 5lbs from last season. Quack, Quack….
doc
December 14th, 2011
11:14 pm
dmb, you know blog police are so boring.they remind me of the little girls in pigtails that sat in front of teachers as their little tattle tale pets. ignore it.
doc
December 14th, 2011
11:16 pm
ole richie, baron davis got shipped to cleveland for mo williams last year, i do believe.
say no to mo.
is billups pleased about going to the 2 spot?
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 14th, 2011
11:17 pm
Save Jeff!
“Baron Davis. He could be a good fit as a veteran point guard to back up Jeff Teauge. MC, you think the hawks could sniff around into that. Seems like a good fit to the naked eye.”
__________
Eight words stand out here:
A good fit
Back up
Sniff around
Naked
__________
Uggh … Baron Davis “likes his core” too. Translation: he likes what Sandusky likes. Now, do we really want this guy to be:
Fitting into, sniffing around, backing up and playing with our very own Jeff Teague – naked?
___________
Hey I ain’t got nothing against Baron Davis, I’m just looking out for Jeff. (she winks)
DSC
December 14th, 2011
11:19 pm
What are everyones thoughts of amnesteying Joe after the season and offering the Restricted Free Agent Eric Gordon a max contract in the offseason. Teague and Gordon in the A? Of course this won’t happen if the ASG is still owning. Sell ASG please! No one likes you!
superiorblogman
December 14th, 2011
11:22 pm
ole riche
December 14th, 2011
10:54 pm
Kaman is in the Paul deal. Not coming to Atl
There is no rule saying he can’t be traded again. SMH