Atlanta Hawks: Rick Sund says Hawks don’t want to pay tax, making Jamal Crawford’s return doubtful
GM Rick Sund said the Hawks still “have never been a taxpaying team and our goal is not to pay the tax,” an approach that essentially means the team is out of the running to re-sign Jamal Crawford or use the free-agent guard in a sign-and-trade transaction.
“It’s going to be difficult to sign Jamal in a straight signing transaction,” Sund said. “We are looking at other alternatives, of course. You always look at everything but it’s not nearly as easy as if you had four months. Four days instead of four months makes it more it more difficult.”
Marc Berman of the New York Post reports that the Hawks, Knicks and Warriors are discussing a three-team trade. SI.com’s Sam Amick later reported that the Warriors are not involved in the discussions.
The bottom line, though, is that any transaction which results in the Hawks paying the tax remains doubtful.
The only way a straight sign-and-trade with the Knicks is plausible is if the Crawford’s starting salary is low enough that the salary Atlanta takes back doesn’t result in a tax penalty. Howard Beck of the New York Times reports that the Knicks want to sign Crawford for the $2.5 million “mini” mid-level exception. Beck also notes that the Knicks have several players who are not eligible to be traded now because the just signed their contracts.
So all those factors mean a sign-and-trade with the Knicks is out. And, obviously, the Hawks also have no chance of re-signing Crawford or any other free agent making more than the minimum as long as they decline to pay the tax.
Sund didn’t completely rule out the Hawks eventually paying some tax but he noted that most teams are backing away from doing so, especially since the tax penalties increase in the third year of the new CBA.
“You never say never,” Sund said about paying tax. “Anything can happen in regards to trades.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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111 comments Add your comment
northcyde
December 11th, 2011
3:48 pm
Pretty much.
Jamal plays no D
December 11th, 2011
3:48 pm
Jamal us his money he gets to buy himself some defense?
Grandmaster JeJe
December 11th, 2011
3:50 pm
Enter your comments hereFIRE SUND
AMNESTY ASG
MattP
December 11th, 2011
3:52 pm
Funny how the Knicks are going after Offense only players, other then Chandler of course.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 11th, 2011
3:54 pm
IF TAX PENALTIES INCREASE IN THIRD YEAR OF CBA WHY NOT GO INTO TAX FOR THE FIRST TWO YEARS
WHERE IS ALL THE MONEY FROM SELLING THE PICKS AND TRADE EXCEPTIONS
Buddy Grizzard
December 11th, 2011
3:54 pm
HIRE SUND… doing a GREAT JOB adding depth to the Hawks given the tax constraints. Fire Vegas though… need Phil Jackson up in this bitch.
northcyde
December 11th, 2011
3:56 pm
MC . . that’s why I’m glad you don’t lead people astray with all of these trade rumors. Fans may not like that, but it is what it is. Your recent blogs have specifically addressed how up against the tax level the Hawks are, and how this ownership group simply is not going to go over the tax . . especially not for mediocre players.
I just wish the Hawks would be more upfront with the fans about what their intentions are. Don’t lead people to believe that you’d be willing to re-sign Jamal. Just simply tell the fans that re-signing Jamal will probably put us over the tax, so we’re not going to re-sign Jamal.
Like I said in the other blog . ,. the ASG is a chicken-isht organization. Be upfront with the fans. We can take it, even if we don’t like it.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 11th, 2011
3:57 pm
MattP I agree completely
Chandler has to cover for everyone. Bibby Melo Amare JAMAL if he ends up there. No bench
LOL
Greg
December 11th, 2011
3:59 pm
Can’t let an asset like Crawford just walk away. That’s mismanaging resources.
Section 303
December 11th, 2011
4:00 pm
You would think the ASG would be anxious to redeem themselves, after costing the city its hockey team. But, not the case. They continue to limit themselves. They’re content to let Jamal walk and will get nothing in return.
I hate this ownership group so much.
superiorblogman
December 11th, 2011
4:01 pm
Sund is lost and disrespectful. We don’t like our bigs and we are the ones that pay to see this crap. So, you go and watch it and see how far that gets you when it comes to keeping your job or creating any energy or passion within the city for the team. DumbSundofaGM
Jamal Crawford Is Not Going to the Knicks
December 11th, 2011
4:02 pm
[...] new, enlightening report from Michael Cunningham at the Atlanta Journal Constitution has all but ruled out the Knicks as a destination for Jamal Crawford. In order for New York to get the guard, they would either need Crawford to sign for the [...]
ant banks
December 11th, 2011
4:02 pm
when is the TAX BILL DUE? can we go over the “tax” now and jettison salary by the trade deadline, thus puttin’ us UNDER the salary cap?
please hold the applause…lol
Michael Cunningham
December 11th, 2011
4:05 pm
@northcyde: thanks, i appreciate it.
it’s not easy to sort through all these rumors. i never sleep much or eat right during this time of year (magnified by this short FA period) because i always fear i’m missing something. but until someone from the Hawks tells me “yes, we will pay the tax” then all these stories about sign-and-trades are non-starters.
just throwing out shaky info for blog hits or Twitter followers gives fans false hope and hurts credibility. although i’m starting to wonder do readers even care if stories are wrong anymore?
i do think it’s possible the Hawks will do a regular trade in which they take back less salary, but they don’t have any tradeable pieces that wouldn’t leave big holes to fill.
Jody
December 11th, 2011
4:05 pm
@MC,
Do you get the sense that Sund is being genuine when he says he likes are smallish “bigs”? Or is he just saying what he knows his bosses want to hear?
Michael Cunningham
December 11th, 2011
4:06 pm
@northcyde: “I just wish the Hawks would be more upfront with the fans about what their intentions are. Don’t lead people to believe that you’d be willing to re-sign Jamal. Just simply tell the fans that re-signing Jamal will probably put us over the tax, so we’re not going to re-sign Jamal.”
i understand what you mean.
northcyde
December 11th, 2011
4:07 pm
Wonder if Horford likes our bigs?
He’s been talking all week about getting some people to help him out on the inside. I told you Al . . YOU ARE THE BIG. You may as well accept this.
Buddy Grizzard
December 11th, 2011
4:09 pm
Sooo…. Does Chauncey end up on the Hawks or Heat?
Atlanta Hawks: Ruck Sund says Hawks don’t want to pay tax, making Jamal Crawford’s return doubtful | Atlanta Hawks
December 11th, 2011
4:10 pm
[...] Atlanta Hawks: Ruck Sund says Hawks don’t want to pay tax, making Jamal Crawford’s retur… [...]
superiorblogman
December 11th, 2011
4:10 pm
No-one here ever thought we would re-sign Jamal. Just like no-one hear thinks we will re-sign Kirk. The problem is not just them not being upfront. The problem is they are not prudent with there assets then they complain about what they don’t have when it is time to think about the tax. Jamal should have been traded for cheap assets last year and Hinrich should be traded for cheap assets this year. That’s the problem I don’t respect Sund nor the ASG because they don’t know how to use what they have. They are incompetent
Michael Cunningham
December 11th, 2011
4:11 pm
@antbanks: “when is the TAX BILL DUE? can we go over the “tax” now and jettison salary by the trade deadline, thus puttin’ us UNDER the salary cap?”
not unless the salaries jettisoned were non-guaranteed guys released before all contracts become guaranteed. otherwise, salaries count for tax bill.
Buddy Grizzard
December 11th, 2011
4:11 pm
Come on All-NBA Al.. if Chris Bosh can man up, so can you:
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_basketball_heat/2011/12/bulked-up-chris-bosh-ill-play-center-if-needed.html
Greg
December 11th, 2011
4:12 pm
MC, for what it’s worth, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with reporters telling fans what sources say is being discussed… as long as it’s couched just that way, it’s not a problem, and does nothing to hurt credibility… just my .02.
superiorblogman
December 11th, 2011
4:15 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7lelrxm
Kirk Hinrich and Zaza
for
Thabeet and Goran Dragic
That trade saves us $5.6 million and puts us at around $64 mill. We now have about $6 mill to sign Jamal or someone else. Looks like a lot more than he may get currently.
Not saying Houston would do the trade but they actually get the 2 better players. We get a little cap space and a backup PG that is currently active.
I don’t want to hear crying about capspace get on your job and create some. If I can without being paid for it Sund should be able to do so also.
Michael Cunningham
December 11th, 2011
4:16 pm
@superiorblogman: “The problem is they are not prudent with there assets then they complain about what they don’t have when it is time to think about the tax.”
true. they’ve seen this coming since they re-signed Joe and extended Al but made no moves since then to gain relief under the tax line. i think Sund’s belief was that if they made a deep run in the playoffs ASG would approve paying tax this year, but that’s not a prudent gamble especially since the team was for sell.
Michael Cunningham
December 11th, 2011
4:20 pm
@Jody: “Do you get the sense that Sund is being genuine when he says he likes are smallish “bigs”? Or is he just saying what he knows his bosses want to hear?”
i’m sure the financial limitations play into that comment, but think he really believes it on some level. i will post the full quote in a blog later today. he talks about how the Hawks value “versatility” and they like that Al can play 5/4, Josh can play 4/3, Joe 2/3 etc.
Greg
December 11th, 2011
4:21 pm
MC, it would help to understand more precisely what ASG/Sund considers to be a tax-worthy asset… would it require no less than a Dwight Howard kind-of pick-up?… I realize they can’t name names, at least among those who aren’t free agents, but could we get more precise criteria on that?… Would they make a run at a legit starting, though aging, PG with ASG and post-season credentials?
northcyde
December 11th, 2011
4:22 pm
Greg . . . the problem is that I would bet $100 that 75% of these “sources” are coming from message boards. I bet that most of those guys don’t have all of these credible sources. They just simply read blogs and message boards, see what sounds sensible, and try to make a story out of that to get hits to their Twitter ( like MC alluded to ).
You can almost tell who is making up ish, and who isn’t.
Michael Cunningham
December 11th, 2011
4:23 pm
@Greg: “MC, for what it’s worth, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with reporters telling fans what sources say is being discussed… as long as it’s couched just that way, it’s not a problem, and does nothing to hurt credibility… just my .02.”
thanks for the feedback. my biggest problem is when the discussions are reported in situations where, because of CBA rules or finances, it can’t happen. that’s what’s happening with this story. as long as the Hawks won’t pay tax, there’s no use talking about a Jamal sign-and-trade to a team over the cap. so when i see these stories i believe they are not true but my paranoia sends me scrambling to check them out, anyway, haha.
Buddy Grizzard
December 11th, 2011
4:24 pm
“Kirk Hinrich and Zaza for Thabeet and Goran Dragic” – Superiorblogman
What a horrible trade. Sure you free up cap room, but you trade two legitimate NBA players for two marginal ones. The Hawks need DEPT for this compressed sprint of a season. We need to hit the postseason with as few injuries as possible. Signing T-Mac and The Rad Man are GREAT moves.
doc
December 11th, 2011
4:24 pm
whew, go falcons.
well i am sooo glad i was holding onto my seat awaiting this proclamation from sund. did anyone doubt it?
northcyde
December 11th, 2011
4:27 pm
superior . . I don’t know what it is with you and Thabeet, but Thabeet is G-A-R-B-A-G-E.
I live in Tennessee, and seen how Memphis fans reacted toward the work ethic of Thabeet. Zaza is a much better player, because Thabeet isn’t passionate about basketball and refuses to work on his skills. And just because he can block a few shots, does not make him a defensive asset.
There is no way in hell that Thabeet and Dragic is better than Zaza and Kirk . . . no way.
Grandad
December 11th, 2011
4:29 pm
Sund is a titty baby.
” it’s not nearly as easy as if you had four months.
Four days instead of four months
makes it more it more difficult.”
Greg
December 11th, 2011
4:30 pm
northcyde > not sure if I read it correctly, but I thought MC might be justifying the fact that he is more judicious in what he reports than what some of his sports journalism peers report from their sources. However, I don’t think we’re talking about rumors generated from internet message boards when these things are coming from guys at large newspapers and national media outlets… maybe I’m naive, but I believe a Sam Amick or a Mark Stein or, in this case, a Mark Berman when they say that their “sources” are telling them this or that.
superiorblogman
December 11th, 2011
4:31 pm
Buddy Grizzard
December 11th, 2011
4:24 pm
“Kirk Hinrich and Zaza for Thabeet and Goran Dragic” – Superiorblogman
What a horrible trade. Sure you free up cap room, but you trade two legitimate NBA players for two marginal ones. The Hawks need DEPT for this compressed sprint of a season. We need to hit the postseason with as few injuries as possible. Signing T-Mac and The Rad Man are GREAT moves.
I disagree. Dragic is a good backup as he proved in Phoenix and he is cheaper and younger than Kirk. If you are depending on Zaza to give you quality minutes consistently you are just as lost as if you were depending on Thabeet to ever do anything other than block a shot or 2 every now and then. Think further.
Think further: I would rather have Dragic, Thabeet, and Jamal than Kirk and Zaza
i_am_soulstar
December 11th, 2011
4:32 pm
ASG disgusts me more and more everday. You want this team to make more money, but you won’t spend the money necessary to create a high-quality product.
Not that I’d want to bring Jamal back because I am an ardent supporter of the belief that he hurt just as much as he helped. I appreciate what he’s done, but everytime I meet someone that thinks the Hawks should break the bank to sign him, its always a ESPN highlight reel-watcher.
But using a guy with a lot of value to get a center, or pieces that can be used in a trade for a quality big later on, just makes entirely too much sense.
We get Toney Douglas, and we have a packed backcourt, and an awesome package of tradeable assets down the line when some guard-starved team’s guard gets injured.
Jase
December 11th, 2011
4:33 pm
We need a big.
Michael Cunningham
December 11th, 2011
4:33 pm
@Greg:“MC, it would help to understand more precisely what ASG/Sund considers to be a tax-worthy asset… would it require no less than a Dwight Howard kind-of pick-up?”
all i have to go on are the comments by Gearon that got him fined last year: that he would pay tax for a guy like LeBron. after they signed Joe i heard they would pay tax “for the right player” but then nothing happened. so, connecting those dots, “the right player” must mean a superstar or All-Star type, not legit depth to put around their max guy plus Al and Josh. at least that’s my interpretation of their comments and actions.
superiorblogman
December 11th, 2011
4:34 pm
northcyde
December 11th, 2011
4:27 pm
superior . . I don’t know what it is with you and Thabeet, but Thabeet is G-A-R-B-A-G-E.
I live in Tennessee, and seen how Memphis fans reacted toward the work ethic of Thabeet. Zaza is a much better player, because Thabeet isn’t passionate about basketball and refuses to work on his skills. And just because he can block a few shots, does not make him a defensive asset.
There is no way in hell that Thabeet and Dragic is better than Zaza and Kirk . . . no way.
You are so slow of mind that you don’t get the big picture just like Sund and the ASG.
With the $5.6 million the trade saves you can then use that money to stay under luxury while re-signing Jamal or any other free agent that will take the full mid level exception.
Jamal, Dragic, and Thabeet are far superior to Kirk and Zaza
Jody
December 11th, 2011
4:35 pm
@MC,
Thanks for answering my question. I just can’t understand why they continue to think the same group year after year is going to all of a sudden produce a different result. Why won’t they “seriously” consider trades if they don’t want to pay the tax?
The Real Hawk
December 11th, 2011
4:35 pm
Which is why wew will not be a winning team
Greg
December 11th, 2011
4:36 pm
Superior thinks Sund is incompetent?
Hmmm.
Makes me reconsider every negative thing I’ve ever thought of Sund. lol
Jody
December 11th, 2011
4:37 pm
This “keep the core together” mentality isn’t producing any meaningful results. You know what the defenition of insanity is.
Sam
December 11th, 2011
4:38 pm
Now that we’ve brought in Mcgrady and Stackhouse, any truth to the rumor that we’re trying to sign Robert Parrish or Kareem Abdul Jabar? Let’s bring in all the old, over-the-hill guys that we can get for cheap.
tmc
December 11th, 2011
4:38 pm
yet ANOTHER reason the Atlanta Spirit Group had ZERO business owning any franchises!
Way to go ASG, keep screwing your fan base as much as possible and continue to build on your legacy in Atlanta.
Just shut down your business and close the doors.
Shashank
December 11th, 2011
4:38 pm
Hey Michael,
Your headline says “Ruck Sund”…might want to fix that.
Buddy Grizzard
December 11th, 2011
4:40 pm
May 12, 2011, Phillips Arena, Atlanta, GA
Zaza Pachulia 23 MIN, 13 REB, 1 PTS
May 10, 2011, United Center, Chicago, IL
Zaza Paculia 23 MIN, 4 REB, 13 PTS
Totally can’t depend on Zaza for quality minutes.
Sam
December 11th, 2011
4:40 pm
Seriously, is Solo still available? He could probably be had for cheap.
Section 303
December 11th, 2011
4:41 pm
Stop with the Thabeet BS. That guy sucks. He will not get any better. He was never good to begin with. Nothing but an ESPN creation. A product of the network’s love of UCONN.
doc
December 11th, 2011
4:42 pm
@northcyde: “I just wish the Hawks would be more upfront with the fans about what their intentions are. Don’t lead people to believe that you’d be willing to re-sign Jamal. Just simply tell the fans that re-signing Jamal will probably put us over the tax, so we’re not going to re-sign Jamal.”
come on northcyde, we are dealing with the basg. i guess they feel if they dont tip their hand they might miss something, right?
northcyde
December 11th, 2011
4:43 pm
So now you’re making trades just to sign a one-dimensional scorer . . while weakening the team overall?
Still wouldn’t do it. Jamal’s offensive production can be made up by multiple guys having a bigger role in the offense. Meanwhile, the overall team defense improves. Even Zaza as a big body is a decent man defender against most centers.
I’m not trading for a useless big man and another PG, just so I can re-sign Jamal and have the other two players to be non-factors. Plus there is no telling how that move will affect Teague.
I’ll pass on that.
Sund and the ASG just need to tell people that Jamal isn’t coming back, and stop leading people on. If they want another PG and a vet minimum scorer, give Allen Iverson a call and make some extra money at the box office.
tyger
December 11th, 2011
4:43 pm
I don’t blame ASG for not paying tax…
ATL is mid-mkt with below avg. fan attendance…
why pay taxes when there isnt a tax-worthy player available?
D.Howard, yes, but giving up half your team, puts you right back behind the 8ball, with no assurances.
Hawks should explore some salary re-negotiations with their core players, to keep McGrady, Radmonavic and possibly Arenas a few years longer. Health, health, and more health should be the mantra.
superiorblogman
December 11th, 2011
4:44 pm
Buddy Grizzard
December 11th, 2011
4:40 pm
May 12, 2011, Phillips Arena, Atlanta, GA
Zaza Pachulia 23 MIN, 13 REB, 1 PTS
May 10, 2011, United Center, Chicago, IL
Zaza Paculia 23 MIN, 4 REB, 13 PTS
Totally can’t depend on Zaza for quality minutes.
Learn to read and comprehend. I stated you can’t depend on Zaza for quality minutes consistently. Zaza was about to get traded last year because he was garbage before the ASB. He had a few good games after the break but never anything consistent. Zaza is only slightly better garbage than Thabeet
Greg
December 11th, 2011
4:44 pm
MC, another thought on this topic…
So, Sund tells you what he told you.
But just yesterday(?), you got from Drew that re-signing Crawford could not yet be ruled out.
Shouldn’t Sund be asked to reconcile those statements?… or, Drew, assuming you see him next…?
Are these guys just not on the same page, or if they are, what’s the explanation that allows both statements to be true?
mountain_jim
December 11th, 2011
4:44 pm
I also hate tha ASG. So sad they could not find a qualified buyer.
They are not investing in this team much to make them more desirable, either.
cdog
December 11th, 2011
4:45 pm
this is stupid.the lakers have kobe with the big salary and a few others and they are always in position to sign or trade for a star player? c’mon. why do the hawks always have to be over the cap every year? it would help if they had someone other than rick sund to bring in players.all he does it fail and make excuses. he should have been long gone instead of mike woodson. he’s terrible. but this kind of person is who fans want to see run the team.he will do anything to lose and he does every year.
O'Brien
December 11th, 2011
4:45 pm
Long time Hawks fans knew the ASG were not going to pay the tax, no matter what comes from the front office.
Rick says he likes our bigs, Al said we need another big. Since Rick and the ASG are pulling the strings, I hope Al gets his lunch pail and get ready for work. Let your game do the talking Al.
superiorblogman
December 11th, 2011
4:49 pm
Yeah right, I wish Rick Sund and the ASG would set a example then everything would be fine. If you want Al to use what he has and play C to the best of his ability. It would be good if you set a like example by using what you have when you have a $10 mill expiring in Jamal and a $8 million expiring in Hinrich and actually get some cheap future pieces for them. I am not applauding Sund one bit and Al should voice the fact that we need a C at every chance.
J.J.M.
December 11th, 2011
4:49 pm
m confused..so how does the ownership expect the team to get better?
O'Brien
December 11th, 2011
4:50 pm
The Pacers (not Boston) get David West. 2 years, $20 mil.
Melvin
December 11th, 2011
4:50 pm
I feel sorry for Crawford. His choices are limited b/c the Hawks can’t afford to resign or trade him. This organization is pathetic. I can see why they haven’t signed any major FA in years. Players will not want to come to play for this dysfunctional organization.
northcyde
December 11th, 2011
4:54 pm
@ Tyger . . . I’ve actually defended the ASG in the past. I’ve told fans that as long as the ATlanta crowd don’t go to games in droves, especially the weekday games, the ASG will be less likely to spend into the tax.
I actually understand WHY they don’t pay the tax, from a financial standpoint.
The problem to me, is that they refuse to take risks . . period. They refuse to break up this core, even if it may mean that the team takes a dramatic turn for the better. They simply play things way too safe. To me, even the Hinrich trade was more about not paying the tax this year, than improving the Hawks as a whole. That may not be true, but that is the perception in my eyes.
When you willingly give up assets like draft picks, when you know that could turn out that the Hawks could get talent that plays above their pay grade, you have to question if every decision we make isn’t about money.
People want to blame Joe Johnson for our financial moves or non-moves. Nah . . this is all on the ASG. They’re the ones that have put us in this situation.
doc
December 11th, 2011
4:57 pm
northcyde ultimately it is about trust. do you think any fan really trusts these guys to do the right thing if we show up or put it in the bank?
cp
December 11th, 2011
5:05 pm
Just a pathetic situation. Im not mad that Jamal is not coming back. Im mad the Hawks will get nothing for him. They continue to mismanage their assets.
Notso Fast
December 11th, 2011
5:08 pm
Until we get new ownership of the Hawks. we will have the same results. All about money and not much to the players you put on the court. The trade of the other Crawford will one day be one of the worst trades ever made. If we let this Crawford walk with nothing in return, then the Hawks will be on the slide down.
North Ave Trade School Hater
December 11th, 2011
5:09 pm
I just hate ASG.
CONservative Johnson
December 11th, 2011
5:09 pm
I tried to tell you folks not to get fooled by the ASG and our guy Michael Cunningham (sorry MC) again. There was absolutely no chance they trade for a big time free agent or go into the luxury tax, no matter how much MC tried to tell us there was a chance and no decision had been made . . .
Buddy Grizzard
December 11th, 2011
5:09 pm
“Zaza is only slightly better garbage than Thabeet.”
Zaza is the best backup center in the NBA. At $4m per season he’s also one of the best values in the NBA. You spam these blogs with trade ideas for a marginal player, Thabeet, who can’t crack the rotation on a non-playoff team. And yet you talk like you know something about basketball. Meanwhile you steal people’s IDs and post your absurd trade ideas under a million different IDs. Get a life dude. Nobody here is listening to you.
alex
December 11th, 2011
5:14 pm
hi asg, one pundit told us when thrashers been sold to relocate “it means better finances support for hawks” now let me tell you mr. gearon and i hope you can do the math at least as a 5 graders, you don’t want to pay, you not going to get playoff and seat is for sure would be half empty, nobody coming to watch old t-mac and old rad who even in pike years been mediocre. i tell you just sell the team to avoid bankruptcy and disgrace, but asg already biggest disgrace in history of atlanta pro sports.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 11th, 2011
5:17 pm
If Sund really thinks this team is set with their big man rotation, we are in trouble.
Neki
December 11th, 2011
5:19 pm
I have to totally agreed with Northcyde about this, This organization is the worst i have hear about, We got assets to go out there and try to make this team better but they want to pin their hopes on journeyman that they pick up for one year that can be a difference and that isn’t going to work, they are not filling up Phillips and they don’t want to take risks.
Michael, I got a question for you, what is your opinion about ASG (Your personal opinion}, because I know my feeling is, they already burn so many bridges down right now (JJ, Thrashers and Sit on their hands) and until they are replace, nobody is going to come to see them, that is unfair.
ILL-Logical
December 11th, 2011
5:23 pm
Atlanta Hawks: Ruck Sund says Hawks don’t want to pay tax, making Jamal Crawford’s return doubtful.
Thought his name was R-I-C-K Sund. Must be some kind of Freudian slip by the editor(?)
Section 303
December 11th, 2011
5:35 pm
Thabeet could not hold Zaza’s jock. Now, on to the next topic.
superiorblogman
December 11th, 2011
5:35 pm
Buddy Grizzard
December 11th, 2011
5:09 pm
“Zaza is only slightly better garbage than Thabeet.”
Zaza is the best backup center in the NBA.
Buddy, this is my last statement ever to you because it is plain to see you are a absolute fool when it comes to Zaza. You are a fool if you think Zaza is the best backup C in the league.
SALVADOR
December 11th, 2011
5:36 pm
Is there a way we can get Samuel Dalembert?
Harry Hawk
December 11th, 2011
5:37 pm
The Hawks are not trying to compete for a championship, so I don’t care what Sund and Drew happen to think about the composition of this squad. They aren’t going to play the tax, so we know what’s going to happen. We know the limits of this squad. I know that fans like to figure out a way to turn chicken **** into chicken salad, but it’s pointless. We are not going to outsmart the rest of the league and nickel and dime our way to greatness. We don’t have the ownership or the front office or the coaching or the players to pull that off.
Bob
December 11th, 2011
5:37 pm
I guess this is code for “we don’t have the money for a trade, much less the tax”. I’m thinking with the JJ fiasco, they don’t have the brains either.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 11th, 2011
5:40 pm
3 players on our roster this season (Pape Sy, Magnum Rolle, Keith Benson) were voted in 495-500 AS THE WORST PLAYERS IN THE NBA.
1/4 OF OUR ACTIVE ROSTER THIS SEASON WILL LIKELY CONSIST OF THE 3 WORST PLAYERS IN THE NBA.
WE HAVE NO BIG MAN DEPTH
Carrlos Lyles
December 11th, 2011
5:42 pm
What most of you are forgetting is the strengths of the hawks, The Hawks are a good point guards dream team. The amount of versatility that all the players bring is unmatched on any team. I should know being that I am from Atlanta and STUDIED the Hawks while learning the Pg position throughout my tenure in college on Every Level. We do not need a big center, that would clog the lane and limit driving angles. We just has to make a conscious effort to defend and rebound and everything will take care of itself. Let Jamal go, the Hawks do not need him. Yea his handle is stupid nice but he prevents the hawks from doing what they do best and that is run and share the ball. I agree with Sund’s vision of the future of the team. Lets just hope Teague can see that he has create and break down the defense and touch the paint on almost every play..
Dawg
December 11th, 2011
5:43 pm
Only Rick Sund could say that his team is well constructed. The management of the Atlanta Hawks is pathetic.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 11th, 2011
5:44 pm
ASG DOES NOT TAKE WANT TO IMPROVE
NORTHCYDE IS RIGHT
THIS IS THE ONLY TEAM IN NBA HISTORY THAT HAS HAD THE EXACT SAME CORE FOR LIKE 6 YEARS
PATHETIC
AMNESTY THE ASG
northcyde
December 11th, 2011
5:45 pm
LOL @ ILL . . . that’s what I was thinking when he spelled his name “Ruck”.
Bob
December 11th, 2011
5:47 pm
Mr Lyles, I think you’re right. We don’t need a big center…we can finish third without one. We do need competent ownership though.
A concerned fan..
December 11th, 2011
5:47 pm
You guys are forgetting that LD & Sunds contracts are up after this season. SO you know if the Hawks dont make 38+ wins this season, they both are gone. Just saying.
Ken Strickland
December 11th, 2011
5:53 pm
I appreciate what Jamal Crawford did for us while he was here, as well as the fact he wants to return. But he’s just too one dimensional, inconsistent, and defensively lacking, for us to go into luxury tax territory to resign him. If we improve our perimeter, and overall DEF, his scoring and DEF liabilities won’t be missed.
We’re also much better off having our one dimension 3pt specialist coming off the bench, rather than having our one dimensional 3pt specialist, and DEF liability, running the team as our starting PG. The more I think about it, the more I love the TMac signing. He gives us a proven scorer, facilitator, penetrator, SF/SG combination, DEF presence, rebounder, and a veteran presence off the bench.
It appears to me that Sund/Drew are looking to add another big because they intend to utilize quantity, rather than over spending on quality, to wear down bigger, stronger, taller and/or more dominant OCs and PFs. Adding a pure PG would also help keep pressure on the oppositions DEF. If HC LDrew utilizes his players and/or bench properly, the Hawks will have a quality team.
Zaza and Twin will give us size, height, experience and physicality. Benson and Rolle will give us height, youth, speed, quickness, and athleticism. All of you WHINERS and HATERS can b!tch, lie and deny all you want, but the Hawks starting lineup, with SG-JJohnson, PG-JTeague, SF-MWilliams, PF-JSmith, and OC-AHorford will be solid both offensively and Defensively.
Offensively, we no longer have to depend on having to shoot over DEFs, or clearing out so JJ and Jamal can pound it to death going ISO. Teague can collapse DEFs, Bibby couldn’t. TMac can also collapse DEFs, DWilkins couldn’t. I’ll take Rolle, and his ability to play OC and PF, over JPowell anyday. I believe we’ll get more production out of a smaller, quicker, and stronger twin.
I also see us getting more production out of MWilliams, now that he finally has a healthy back. Anyone, and I mean anyone, knows how hard it is to rebound, play DEF, block shots, drive to the basket etc, when you’re having back trouble.
northcyde
December 11th, 2011
5:55 pm
Jeje . . I actually don’t mind our “core”. But if we’re going to pay the “core”, and not be willing to go out and get what we need to improve the “core” by using the Luxury Tax as an excuse . . . the only way the team can improve is to break up part of the core to get some of the players we need. Maybe those players create a “better core”.
I think the ASG wants the season to start, see how the Hawks handle those first 2 weeks, and then maybe make a decision about keeping or breaking up “the core”. I say the first 2 weeks, because we play Miami and Chicago two times apiece within that period.
Who knows though. We never know what they’re thinking, when it comes to personnel. The only thing we know now, is that they’re not spending over the tax.
I’m just ready for the season to start now. We’ll get the preseason teasers in about a week, and then the real games start after Christmas. I’m tired of even talking about this ish, until we get a credible source about a legit transaction.
Carrlos Lyles
December 11th, 2011
5:56 pm
@bob exactly, the league is changing teams that cannot run and fill lanes are going to be at the bottom of the conferences. having a big center does not sell tickets nor does it guarantee that you will win games. To be honest I think they could easily get 3rd place in the east.
Neki
December 11th, 2011
6:00 pm
I think that ASG needs to do a real townhall meeting and to explain these things to the customer (the fans) about this. I mean, nobody will get excited about a team that been haven’t been in the ECF ever since its moved to Atlanta and did nothing to improved themselves just signed over-the-hill players that won’t be here about in a couple of months. They don’t even try to bring in better players and hope that by miracle that they can get to the next round.
ASG needs to know that if the customers isn’t satisfy the product then customers don’t have to buy the product and they will lose more money and fans. I think they need to be up front and honest with us, because if they don’t, they will be playing in front of empty Phillips arena.
ASG/Rick Sund want to continue this game, then be prepared to lose everything else.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 11th, 2011
6:04 pm
A concerned fan…:
“SO you know if the Hawks dont make 38+ wins this season, they both are gone. Just saying.”
38 wins? if we only win 38 games with this team, I think the team should probably just change cities. That would be pathetic. We won 53 games under Woody.
Northcyde:
“Jeje . . I actually don’t mind our “core”. But if we’re going to pay the “core”, and not be willing to go out and get what we need to improve the “core” by using the Luxury Tax as an excuse . . . the only way the team can improve is to break up part of the core to get some of the players we need. Maybe those players create a “better core”.
I think the ASG wants the season to start, see how the Hawks handle those first 2 weeks, and then maybe make a decision about keeping or breaking up “the core”. I say the first 2 weeks, because we play Miami and Chicago two times apiece within that period.”
My brother, I’ve been saying ASG will do this “wait a few weeks then make major change” for about 6 years. We have had THE SAME CORE FOR 6 YEARS. NOTHING WILL CHANGE UNLESS A PLAYER DEMANDS A TRADE.
NO ONE is leaving. THIS IS PATHETIC OWNERSHIP.
THEY SOLD THE THRASHERS FOR LIKE $174 MILLION. THEY CAN’T EVEN GO A TINY BIT INTO THE LT
PATHETIC
Roy
December 11th, 2011
6:18 pm
To be honest unless the Hawks can swing a major trade for Chris or Dwight I wouldnt go into to luxy tax either for this team. While Crawford is a talented scorer he does little else. The Hawks offense was often joe or crawford holding the ball to long then passing it late in the shot clock. Teams dared the hawks to take jumpshots. I think this is the way to go until they can clear cap space.
northcyde
December 11th, 2011
6:21 pm
Let’s play a game. Name that Team
********************
Roughly three minutes into the first news conference,____ ______ laid it right out there.
“We feel like we have a team to make a run for the championship,” he said.
Way to set the bar low, ____!
“The sky’s the limit,” said _______. As if on cue, his teammates joined in.
“The sky’s the limit,” said ____ ________.
“The sky’s the limit,” said ____ ___.
As possible slogans go, this franchise has come a long way from _____land.
Yet it’s true, isn’t it? For the first time since the team moved to _______, _______ fans can look forward to a season with no limit to what can be achieved.
This team isn’t trying to get to the playoffs. This team isn’t trying to win a playoff game. This team is trying to claim a place among the league’s elite.
“We’re looking at the big picture,” said ________. “Winning a championship.”
********************
Name that Team . . .
Najeh Davenpoop
December 11th, 2011
6:22 pm
“38 wins? if we only win 38 games with this team, I think the team should probably just change cities. That would be pathetic. We won 53 games under Woody.”
It’s a shortened schedule this year, though. 38 wins this year is equivalent to 47 wins in a typical year.
J from the A
December 11th, 2011
6:27 pm
Assuming that the Hawks pick up a serviceable PG (big assumption) and that Kirk comes back at 100% and stays healthy (another big assumption), might the Hawks be looking to push for the 3 seed? I think so, but this also probably means another second round exit.
1. Bulls
2. Heat
3. Hawks or Knicks
4. Knicks or Hawks
5. Celtics
6. Pacers***
7. Magic
8 Who Cares
- List assumes no major moves (e.g., Dwight being traded anywhere, CP3 being trade to the East).
***The Pacers are the real wild card. The Pacers are one or two meaningful acquisitions away from being able to push for the 3/4 seed. Sure, this is also true of the Celtics and Magic, but the difference is that the Pacers actually have the flexibility to have a real shot of making another meaningful acquisition or two.
A concerned fan..
December 11th, 2011
6:30 pm
@JEJE It’s a shortened season.. its not 82 games, LOL!!
Sautee
December 11th, 2011
6:30 pm
superiorblogman,
“Buddy, this is my last statement ever to you because it is plain to see you are a absolute fool when it comes to Zaza. You are a fool if you think Zaza is the best backup C in the league.”
Okay, s-b, what makes you “superior” when you are intolerant of someone with a differing opinion?
A true “superior” blogger would not only welcome other views, but enjoy the difference. It would really suck if we all thought alike, no?
Slimjr
December 11th, 2011
6:38 pm
A gut feeling?
Hawks will battle for the #1 seed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep it up Mr Ken Strickland.. I hear you!
Another GM
December 11th, 2011
6:39 pm
The Hawks say one thing at Town Hall meetings and do the opposite. My family and I are done. I have been a faithful fan since 1976.
The ASG will never put butts in the seats as long as they own the Hawks. This is by far the worst organization in the league. I remember the days when we used to laugh at the Clippers…………..and the New Orleans Jazz.
Nique, Rounds Roundfield, TRee Rollins, Truck Robinson, Fast Eddie Johnson, Mookie Blaylock, Steve Smith, John Drew, Kevin Willis, Spud, Terry Furlow, Steve Hawes, Tom McMillen……………….are now just all distant memories.
I bet Ted is thinking WTF is wrong with these clowns!
superiorblogman
December 11th, 2011
6:44 pm
Sautee
December 11th, 2011
6:30 pm
superiorblogman,
“Buddy, this is my last statement ever to you because it is plain to see you are a absolute fool when it comes to Zaza. You are a fool if you think Zaza is the best backup C in the league.”
Okay, s-b, what makes you “superior” when you are intolerant of someone with a differing opinion?
A true “superior” blogger would not only welcome other views, but enjoy the difference. It would really suck if we all thought alike, no?
You obviously no nothing about being superior. Superior beings represent the truth. With De-Andre Jordan or Chris Kaman being backup there is no way Zaza is anything close to being the best backup. He is not even close. It’s not about being tolerant. Some stuff you should not tolerate and the stuff is lies and pure foolishness. It is a lie and pure foolishness to say Zaza is the best backup C in the league
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 11th, 2011
6:48 pm
superior even I never asked for Thabeet over Zaza.
When I asked for Motiejunas at the 4 and Thabeet at the 5. It was only so we would shift Jason Collins to 3rd string.
Now I see if Bogut and Leuer might come available Hawks have to jump on that. And Leuer has to be brought in.
Trade leuer for a 2012 2nd rounder and bring him over. Radmanovic?
6′8 Josh
6′10 Radmanovic
6′10 Horford
6′8 Josh
7′0 Radmanovic
7′0 Horford
Zaza is one of the best backup centers in the league. And without a superstar and in a league with superstars gutting teams via trade the key for the Hawks winning an EC or NBA Finals is DEPTH.
That being said the fact that the Hawks signed a “stretch 4″. Goes with Josh as the “Power 3″.
It seems Hawks are finally seeing the light.
Horford IS the center because Smith at SF is an elite defense and rebounding unit but will only work with a “stretch 4″. Hawks and Horford will come to realize that between:
A) a high level rebound % & defender (ie Bogut) and uses fouls at center that can play 30 minutes with Zaza’s 18
B) a “Stretch 4″ makes Smith the 3, yet keeps him inside. Effectively upgrading the defense and rebounding, and benching the nonfactor Marvin.
Between A & B, Horford who is the center but does not rebound or defend or foul the Dwights, is not effective in his role (he needs a Durant/Dwight to shine) and is not plausible to win it all with him.
ryan
December 11th, 2011
6:55 pm
I agree i don’t think we should putting the blame on the players its ASG and Sund that’s the problem .
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 11th, 2011
6:56 pm
J from the A, Indiana signed David West. Their starting backcourt has defense with George Hill off the bench. Their frontcourt has 2 former all stars who can score in volume and Psycho T off the bench.
OJ Mayo might come in a trade for 6′10 Josh McRoberts.
So Hawks are looking like a 4th seed.
S-B: Chris Kaman was the backup and played 33 games iirc, his defense and health is always suspect. Dwight would eat him alive w/o the psychological and “Laimbeer-esque” physical aspect Zaza brings. No thx.
DeAndre Jordan maybe but he’s the starter and a feast/famine player. He could breakout but hes a starter.
And ’superior” you sound like Adolf Hitler. Change your name, man. Pretty please.
Ken Strickland
December 11th, 2011
7:01 pm
You can whine and b!tch about Sund and the ASG all you want, it won’t change a doggone thing, and you should know that by now. The situation we’re in is what it is, so deal with it. Stop being stupid, and stop claiming doom and gloom because things aren’t the way you might want.
While the Hawks as constructed won’t likely win this yrs NBA title, but the Hawks that some of you are trying to construct, and are fantasizing over, won’t likely win this yrs NBA title either. I see us doing a whole lot better, both during the regular season and playoffs, than most of you are willing to concede.
Prison Mike
December 11th, 2011
7:09 pm
Okay Josh, Al, and Joe has commented on how they need a big to help as opposed to starting. Sund also said they are looking for a big, vet minimum I assume.
Prison Mike
December 11th, 2011
7:11 pm
Who are the short list candidates?
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 11th, 2011
7:12 pm
C. Lyles its hard to win because our offense used to be tops in the league. But it was because we were small and went with all shooters and crashed boards.
Our defense was destroyed by teams that are bigger can shoot and crash boards. So now we go big and our offense is destroyed.
It seems every year we ask Josh Smith to save us. Maybe now we have started to go for a big who can shoot.
For Years it was
Stretch 3 – Marvin
Small 4 – Josh Smith (6 FTA per game)
small shooting center – Horford (a weak 2-3 FTA per game) or defensive center – Zaza Pachulia
Then we went big and Horford still could not up his FTA per game. Coaches reviewed tape and probably saw his weakness in iso and playing off guards he just shoots 2s. 3s and FTA put pressure on defense, Tough 2s dont.
Now it seems Hawks are seeing the light in going with an elite frontcourt is, funny enough, Josh Smith as a “Power SF” who can PnR, not Horford at the PF.
Power 3 – Josh Smith (6 FTA per game)
Stretch 4 – 6′10 Radmanovic
shooting center – 6′9,75″ Horford (2-3 FTA per game)
It would be easier to reach the Finals with
Power 3 – Josh Smith (6 FTA per game)
Stretch 4 – 7′0 Leuer
defensive center – 7′0 Bogut
but we’ll see if Sund can rectify this in the coming weeks.
Norcross
December 11th, 2011
7:15 pm
MC, what do you think of Pape Sy?
Adil
December 11th, 2011
7:16 pm
Its frustrating how the ownweship seam to not care about the fans….what are we doing? the bottom line is we need a BIG MAN…i lost my hope in this ownership until it changes we will not be able to chanlenge anything….
Astro Joe
December 11th, 2011
7:17 pm
Put me down for 43 wins, which is a 65% winning percentage… equivalent to 53 wins in a normal season. This is a fairly balanced roster and I am expecting a more entertaining regular season than last year.
STRETCH
December 11th, 2011
7:20 pm
Compared to the bench they had last year, anything is better!
Michael Cunningham
December 11th, 2011
7:21 pm
new blog is posted. shutting down this thread.
Knicks really want Jamal Crawford. Don’t bet on it happening. | ProBasketballTalk
December 12th, 2011
1:28 pm
[...] Hawks do not want to pay the luxury tax and they are bumping up against that $70 million number, as the Atlanta Journal Constitution explains. The only way a straight sign-and-trade with the Knicks is plausible is if the Crawford’s [...]