Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 3
Notes gathered while sleepwalking and dreaming about a sandwich. . . .
- Rick Sund said the Hawks are interested in Gilbert Arenas and Chauncey Billups if they clear amnesty waivers. If teams with cap space don’t bid on those players by tonight’s deadline, they become free agents. (Note: Arenas already has cleared waivers, according to ESPN’s Marc Stein, and wants to join up Dwight Howard.)
- Asked about acquiring another center, Sund said:”I like our ‘bigs.’ We’ve got so many players that are versatile. Larry [Drew] is comfortable using those guys in different position.”
- Billups isn’t a pure point guard but has great value for the Hawks because he can play the 2, is a big-time shotmaker and adds leadership and toughness. He’s also really, really good at doing something the Hawks were really, really bad at doing last season: getting to the free-throw line.
- The Hawks still have no plans to use their amnesty clause this season.
- Al Horford said he and fellow captains Josh Smith and Joe Johnson are still looking for the Hawks to make more moves after they added Tracy McGrady, Jason Collins and Vladimir Radmanovich. “I just hope they give us the opportunity to show something and still play at a high level,” Horford said. “Its’ a shortened season so there will be a lot more games in fewer days. So we need to have a deep team.”
- The feeling among Atlanta’s captains is they don’t want to take a step back after taking Chicago to six games. “You want to build on it,” Horford said. “We need some sort of depth. I think that’s what gave Chicago an edge over us. I think we wore down in the playoffs a little bit. If we are able to get some more pieces, we should be in good shape.”
- The Hawks scrimmaged for the first time today and us media types got to see the tail end. Jeff Teague was smooth and in control and Pape Sy made a couple nice pull-up jumpers.
- Horford on Teague: “I think he’s just more confident as a player. I think the playoffs helped him. I just hope he keeps that edge and confidence and keeps playing hard.”
- The Hawks ended practice with sprints. Teague, Johnson, Smith and Zaza Pachulia were out in front.
- I will say this about Josh: He’s a pro. There’s been no sign of discontent and lots of evidence that he’s focused and working hard. He frequently pulls younger players to the side and points out where they are supposed to do.
- Drew said Josh’s slimmer build doesn’t mean he will play him at power forward less often: “With him losing the weight, I see that he’s got his quickness back that he had when he first got here. He looks a lot faster, a lot quicker, which is a good sign because that’s been a strength of his game is his athleticism.”
- Funny exchange between Josh and assistant Lester Conner during the sprints. Conner: “They are going to be saying, ‘Damn them Hawks get out on the break!” Josh: “They was already saying that.”
- Not to judge a second-round rookie too harshly on his third day, but I don’t see Keith “Kito” Benson as a factor until he gets bigger and more aggressive. “I’m just trying to stay low in the post so I don’t get knocked off position,” he said. “I’m getting used to the stronger players that have played in the league.”
- Kito finds himself on the same floor as guys he once idolized. “[Jerry] Stackhouse was on the Pistons when I was younger so I used to watch him a lot,” he said. “I had the T-Mac shoes and everything.” I had those blue-and-white T-Macs, too.
- Horford on Kito: “He’s very athletic. He’s definitely going to have to work himself in the weight room a little more and get stronger but I like his enthusiasm and his energy. I’ve noticed that he can shoot a little bit in the mid-range area. That’s always good to see.”
- Rookie prospect Brad Wanamaker has yet to practice because FIBA hasn’t yet cleared him after he played in Italy. Wanamaker said an Italian holiday is holding up the paperwork but he hopes to be cleared by tomorrow.
- Atlanta’s $3.6 million trade exception from the Josh Childress deal expires on Dec. 16. Since the Hawks aren’t going to take on more salary than they send out, the exception will expire without being used.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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335 comments Add your comment
O'Brien
December 12th, 2011
1:33 pm
Vava,
I think you’re being too hard on Gordon. He has only been in the league 3 years, and was coached by Mike Dunleavy.
JJ is 6’7”, 240 lbs. He can back and post almost every other SG in the league, so that’s not saying much. Plus JJ is a grizzled veteran, so who knows how JJ’s game looked his first 3 years in the league (he was a bench player).
I assume you’d prefer Gordon over Jamal though :Smile:
Greg
December 12th, 2011
1:34 pm
OOOPS….
that first response was for GEEMACK…
and the second, for RA’MON
=======================================================================
SteveW
December 12th, 2011
1:34 pm
I’m almost at the point of saying sign Ronnie Price, if he’s still around, and Alex Ajinca or Fesenko, and call it a day.
And I hate to agree with Sund, but how can you not like our Bigs? Depending on you definition of Bigs, you’ve got:
A 2x All Star at C
A Potential All Star, and a 2nd place DPOY guy at PF
One’s 26, and the other is 25
You’ve got one of the best back up C’s in the League in ZaZa. He’s only 27 or something like that.
You’ve got the Dwight stopper Collins, who’s also in shape, and one of the best body on body defenders in the game.
And can Rolle and Kito be any worse than Josh Powell and Etan Thomas? – though I felt LD never gave Etan a fair chance. I thought Etan was worth a shot against those Chicago Bigs.
I wouldn’t mind another Big Man or 2, but I like the one’s we got. Maybe I’m missing something? We don’t have Tyson Chandler or anything, but the one’s we have are pretty good.
O'Brien
December 12th, 2011
1:34 pm
Ra’mon,
CP3 will do more for Griffin’s game imo. Imagine all the alley-oops Blake should be getting? As for the lottery picks, Clippers would only give up one, so they still have their own pick. And can you really rely on lottery picks to not only develop, but also develop quickly?
Al Farouq Aminu was drafted 8th by the Clippers. He is still unproven at this time. So why would Blake Griffin think the Clippers GM would find 2 solid players with their lottery picks? And as much as I like Eric Gordon, He is not a perennial all-star as yet.
And CP3 should help DeAndre Jordan too (assuming the Clipps match his offer), so the team will be better.
doc
December 12th, 2011
1:36 pm
with sund’s big man history, it is best he stay out of any discussions on who is a good big. one only jas to look at his draft picks as to his ability to size up bigs for future rewards. he and bk must have gone to the same gm school as much as they ignore point guards and bigs. got news, versatility gets you into the second round if you are lucky and never further.
O'Brien
December 12th, 2011
1:38 pm
Steve W,
Hawks will not do any SNT, because that will put them into luxury tax territory. Any other signings will be vet min players (imo).
c'mon man
December 12th, 2011
1:43 pm
Offer up Joe to anyone willing with decent return.. if you think Joe’s contract make u sick now.. wait a few years.. trade jamal and kirk… QUICK or we will get nothing back for them. oh and get rid of marvin.
SteveW
December 12th, 2011
1:44 pm
I hope the Clippers don’t do that trade – it’s robbing the Clippers. Gordon and Aminu are enough for Paul, too much if he doesn’t agree to sign. I’d keep my guys and try to become the Grizzlies if they don’t take that if I’m the Clips.
And I have been predicting the Grizzlies and the Thunder were the two teams to take down the Lakers in the West since before last season. Got made fun of alot for backing the Griz – but their roster just kept getting more and more talented. – I did kinda underestimated the Mavs I guess however.
And the Hawks can be a team to challenge the Heat, depends on how we grow this team. Chicago also, and maybe Philly after that. I’m not sold on a fat ‘Melo (they say he’s in terrible shape), an Amare you can’t insure his contract because of his knees, with a Coach who plays Amare too much, and Chandler to challenge the Heat, even though I’d love to see it.
ATL has the talent – we’ll see if we have the Coaching to make some noise.
Getting back to the CP3/Clips trade, I hear the Clips are just asking CP3 to exercise his 2012/13 player option. I still only go Gordon and Aminu. Maybe make them give me a pick for Kaman if they want him.
The League is robbing the Clippers
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 12th, 2011
1:44 pm
The Smelly Joint!
Who would have thunk the Clippers would make aa super star’s short list before, the ATL Hawks a few years ago?
Billups wouldn’t even de-plane a corporate jet at Hartsfield, as, IF Sund could negotiate that deal.
Here’s my point: the Hawks have smelled up the joint so badly in the playoffs, to the point where we can’t even get a super star in a FA trade market to even consider playing here. Besides the ASKG, no one else likes our “core”.
John Schurholtz said it best when he was the GM of the pennant winning 90’s Braves:
“A successful stock broker, NEVER falls in love with his stocks.’ Translation: No one is ever untouchable in a trade market.
Astro Joe
December 12th, 2011
1:46 pm
At some pojnt, you have to recognize that the issue isn’t that Sund needs us to offer up trade ideas or potential players to sign, but that Sund has boss’ who give him things like a budget and other guidelines that are what he ultimately must use to shape his decisions. Can Sund construct a S&T for Jamal that would add needed talent/skills to the Hawks? Of course he can. Does he have permission to do so? I think MC has suggested that he does not. If you sit up there daydreaming about buying a 60″ HD TV knowing that you have a $200 budget, then what the devil are you doing spending time thinking about 60-inch TVs? If you have a “spend less than the luxury tax” budget, then a bunch of these proposed trades/signings are pointless.
Want to trade Jamal? Find a team that has salary cap space and can give us back a draft pick.
SteveW
December 12th, 2011
1:48 pm
OB – Yea, your probably right. Well Ronnie Price is still available. So is Earl Boykins. So is Nate Robinson maybe.
SteveW
December 12th, 2011
1:51 pm
Well a PG position of Teague, Sy, Wanamaker, and TMac may not be too bad until Hinrich comes back.
Maybe another PG will get cut that is decent, that will come to the ATL.
Trojan
December 12th, 2011
1:53 pm
Astro Joe: The only thing wrong with your budget explanation is that Sund knew in advance that by overpaying for JJ, he would have a $200 TV budget. That is the point. If we are simply a 2nd level team with a strict budget, you should not overpay for the easiest to replace position in basketball.
Thus we are stuck with scrubs until the whole thing is blown up again.
SteveW
December 12th, 2011
1:53 pm
If Stack is really OK, maybe playing TMac behind Teague some, Stack behind JJ, then TMac behind Marvin also wouldn’t be a terrible rotation. Alot depends on Stack.
SteveW
December 12th, 2011
1:55 pm
And Kito’s whole game is basically a skinny shot blocker. At Oakland, he looked really awkward offensively to me. But he could wreak so much havoc with his length and quickness, that he really willed Oakland to be much better than they were. Oakland beat some good teams.
c'mon man
December 12th, 2011
1:56 pm
by the way center for cheap
http://www.videosurf.com/evideo/2_b9D2PQdRPiw
Fundamentals
December 12th, 2011
1:57 pm
The Orlando situation almost makes Sund look like he’s doing some good. Amnesty can’t even solve their problems.
Rufus1
December 12th, 2011
1:59 pm
@Ra’mon
“over a 6 game series, they wear down! Any two guys would do that without a bench behind them.”-Ra’mon- Agree
It is LD Job to develop a bench and roles for his bench players. The Bulls players know who they are and what they supposed to do….They defend and rebound all of DRose’s missed shots. The each have an identity and they stick to that role.
The Hawks have an identity crisis and I blame that on the coach. LD has to understand his team limits and strengths and build a team around them. ASG isn’t going to spend into the Lux Tax, so any coach that takes this jobs has to develop his bench….By giving players time and a defined role. We don’t have a “Super Star” but we have good talent and it is LD job to make it work.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 12th, 2011
2:00 pm
Word on The Street!
Ryan Stewart just said this on 790 The Zone, “Word on the street is the Hawks are breaking it’s back right now to get Dwight Howard.”
Anybody hearing any rumors today. Doug Stewart just said , “the whole world is mad at Stern and, Stern should be fired!”
Kobe just said, “it doesn’t make any sense being worried about a Reality TV Show, (re: Lamar?). I don’t see Mark Cuban filing any complaints now?, (re: getting Lamar?).”
Stern has poked into a hornt’s nest – hasn’t he? Perhaps, Stern needs to explain what a basket ball related decison really mean?
Hey fellas, IF Sund is going in hard for Dwight today, who is he offering? (sans Josh). More importantly, would the Hawks do it even IF Dwight refuses to sign an extension. Without an extension, Dwight does not get a max deal and walks away from 30M +/- dollars – right? Would he be an UFA next season.
Astro Joe
December 12th, 2011
2:02 pm
Trojan, consider that Sund paid Joe in the summer of 2010 and the ASG entered into an agreement with Meruelo in the summer of 2011. Maybe they told Sund to spend on Joe knowing that in 1-2 years, it would be someone else’s problem.
Fundamentals
December 12th, 2011
2:02 pm
I’d like to see us depend on Teague and really use him this year. He’s “proven” himself by rising up in the playoffs. Signing a legit PG to compete now will just derail his confidence. We have enough experience on this team to get by in the case that Teague gets hurt. He needs this opportunity to show he’s ready. That’s why I keep hinting at a big prospect.
Jamal for a decent draft pick next year would definitely fit the ASG bill and give us something to dream about. We could start checking out the forums for top of the line TV’s coming in 2012 instead of what’s already on display, knowing full well they might actually be obtainable.
Fundamentals
December 12th, 2011
2:04 pm
AMEN to delegating roles and holding players accountable to fullfilling them. Playing your role and giving 100%= championships. The stats based Hawks model just doesn’t cut it, and it never will.
Astro Joe
December 12th, 2011
2:05 pm
Mary, Doug is a huge Lakers fan. Stern doesn’t care how many articles are written about him and the CP3 deal… the owners pay his salary. (Kind of like a head coach doesn’t need to sweat about what fans say as long as the GM/owners are happy).
Ra'mon
December 12th, 2011
2:06 pm
O’brien, I know the Clippers will be better now! I just don’t think they will be better in three seasons. And if CP3 is there they become a 7th seeded playoff team. The problem with that is they no longer have a lottery pick! To me, a top 5 pick is better than making the playoffs as an 7 or 8th seed. The only way to get a true superstar these days is to draft them. Think about the Sonics. The Sonics traded their best 2 players, and built through the draft. I may be wrong, but with the exception of Perkins and Collins, I think all of their top 5-6 players, are players they drafted or traded for on draft day.
Fundamentals
December 12th, 2011
2:07 pm
It’ll be interesting to see how the Lakers perform given this slap in the face. Seems everything is focussed on New York of late and New Jersey’s move to Brooklyn.
Ra'mon
December 12th, 2011
2:09 pm
Rufus, I understand what you’re saying. But you can’t make banana pudding, without bananas or pudding. You can’t have a talented deep bench, without talent or without depth.
Astro Joe
December 12th, 2011
2:12 pm
Will the NBA allow one of their owners to be the president of another country? If I’m Deron (or Dwight), I have to think twice about joining the Nets if they potentially will be swicthing owners (if dude wins the Russian election).
BTW, can you imagine a POTUS owning a sports team in another country while he is in office? I can’t.
Maybe
December 12th, 2011
2:14 pm
If you youtube Pape Sy and gravelines dukq etc…. you can see him putting in work overseas. Let the kid play PG and chill out smh. He’s got handle, defense he’s 6′7 225 attacks the rack and can draw tons of fouls. He doesn’t even have to run PG if hes on the floor with T-mac who I would say immedately becomes the Hawk with the best B-Ball IQ since he signed. Jamal gave up just as many points as he scored, and that’s when he wasn’t ice cold (in which he gave up double and we likely loose).
Starters : Teague, Joe, Josh, AL, Collins
Bench: Sy, T-Mac, Marvin, Radmonovic, Zaza
Bang, Bang….OR
——————————————————————-
Starters: Teague, Joe, Josh, Radmonovic, Horford (With Teague, Horf and Smoove doing work inside and Rad/Joe outside)
Bench: Kirk(IR), Sy, T-Mac, Marvin, Zaza
Either way its a solid 10 man rotation with tons of spacing and improved defense. The Rotation breaks down and turns into CRAP when YOU TRY TO START MARVINA “DUCK BUTTY” WILLIAMS. PLZ LEAVE HIM ON THE BENCH. HE’S EARNED IT!
If T-Mac is telling the truth, and he’s “going to be a completely different player” then watch out. Come playoffs. Him, Joe, and Teague are going to do WORK on the peremeter. y’all pray for his heath because in my eyes, our season can turn from ho-hum into dayyyum!! based on where T-mac is.
Ra'mon
December 12th, 2011
2:15 pm
AJ, knowing Stern, he loves the idea. He probably think if he becomes the president of Russia, that will open up the avenue for the Nets to play in Russia sometimes, rather exhibition or whatever.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 12th, 2011
2:17 pm
Analaphor!
Go head Ra’mon with your banana pudding analogy! We like picture words – they’re fun to see.
Any one hearing any Dwight to ATL rumors? I’ve heard some pro players don’t like playing at home, because the relatives and friends always begging with hands out stretched. Too many distractions. I just wonder if Dwight would consider an extension here w/o Josh? He may.
vava74
December 12th, 2011
2:20 pm
As news put Howard “closer” to the Hawks, Howard says:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7345415/dwight-howard-rethinking-demand-trade-orlando-magic
Astro Joe
December 12th, 2011
2:22 pm
From Billups’ agent:
“Chauncey’s pissed off, but he’s not pissed at the Knicks,” Miller said. “He understands it’s a business and they have to do what they have to do.
“But he’s in a very frustrated state of mind because this has happened to him twice now. The way the league is structured, if you’re a hot name and teams have interest in you, you have the ability to manufacture mass hysteria, and guys like Chauncey who put in years of high-level leadership, production, and service get lost.”
@pcnitai
December 12th, 2011
2:23 pm
Jamal still hasnt signed, you think maybe his value is falling and maybe we can still keep him for a MLE? Then again I dont know if he even wants to play here anymore.
kwooden
December 12th, 2011
2:24 pm
I’m optimistic about this team because the guys that need to improve for this team are Horford and Teague. If those guys step-up their games, we’ll have a pretty tough team to deal with. LD seems to only like playing 8-9 guys so the only bench guys we really need to care about are Zaza, Tracy, Vladi and ??. I would like the ?? guy to be Sy, but we need them be Benson or Rolle. Zaza needs a shot blocker/defender on the floor with him, so he can be a more effective rebounder. Hopefully Benson or Rolle can fill that void. I think Sy brings the speed element to the table, but knowing LD he’s going to try and play Tracy a lot at the PG.
If the HAWKS run there offensive through Smoove and Horford in the post that should free up JJ more and give Marvin more open shots. Hopefully Marvin is knocking them down. With Jeff at the point, this team will play a lot faster and that should help by also. If Zaza and Benson/Rolle can bring some quality minutes off the bench then, Smoove and Al can be fresh for a complete game. If that happens we’re a very good team, maybe good enough to consistently compete with Miami and Chicago.
GO HAWKS!
Stagger
December 12th, 2011
2:26 pm
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ
@pcnitai
December 12th, 2011
2:29 pm
I still dont understand why the Hawks arent trying for CP3. We have enough assets to give to New Orleans without destroying the team; Teague, Crawford, Hinrich, and Marvin plus cash or draft picks. Then we can sign Billups or Arenas to backup CP3.
Ra'mon
December 12th, 2011
2:29 pm
Vava, where have you read about Hawks being closer to D12?
Rufus1
December 12th, 2011
2:33 pm
T-Mac Back-up PG…
T-Mac can be the Back-up PG and have Sy defend the quick guard….
I want to sign 7ft Jason Smith…Young, athletic and BIG.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_smith/
ryan
December 12th, 2011
2:33 pm
Sweat if we get Howard this is greatest Christmas present of all time i wonder if Arenas is involved and we could Gilbert to seal the deal .
Geemack
December 12th, 2011
2:36 pm
@Greg…Nice name by the way.
Teague is the starter here, and we only need someone to give him 10 to 12 min of rest per a night.
Billups is still a starter on a championship team.
With JJ, Hinrich, Teague and McGrady we have more than enough guards that can handle the ball.
This will be a breakout year for Teague move Josh to SF, and Al to PF and watch the team fly.
If we keep that same format as Woody, we should expect the same result.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 12th, 2011
2:38 pm
Dead in the Water!
Adrian Wojnarowski: The Hornets-Clippers deal for Chris Paul has died, league source tells Y! Sports. Twitter
Los Angeles Clippers, New Orleans Hornets, Trade, Chris Paul | share 
Adrian Wojnarowski: Deal is dead, “for now, anyway,” source tells Y!. Could still be restructured again, but Clippers resisting steep asking price for Paul. Twitter
______________
Vava74 thanks for the link. Yeah!
hawks_4_life
December 12th, 2011
2:41 pm
All I know its going to be two years before we can do anything. Hopefully this entails a new owner and amnestying Johnson. His contract can hamstring this franchise for a long time.
Maybe
December 12th, 2011
2:42 pm
CP3? what has he won? He has a bum knee also? You’re gonna give up half the team for him? We already have a PG on our roster who went to Wake forest. He’s taller, plays better D (not just steals), and has tons of upside. Did you not see him in the playoffs? 16ppg against the bulls ring a bell? Ho much did CP3 average against the lakers? 22ppg? And thats his ceiling? and he has a bum knee?
He cost 5X as much and can’t provide 5X the production. We would LOOOSE A LOT of ball games. It would just be CP3 and Horford….LOL.
Teague, Hinrich, and Sy is just fine Oh! and we get to keep Joe, Josh, AL T-Mac etc. etc. smh…. #NotWorthIt
The Flakers have KB24 so they can do that but they were still commiting suicide with only Bynum (NOT Tyson Chandler) in the FrontCourt. AND they did it again last night by giving up Lamar Odum for a pack of skittles,
Geemack
December 12th, 2011
2:44 pm
@pcnitai
December 12th, 2011
2:29 pm
I still dont understand why the Hawks arent trying for CP3. We have enough assets to give to New Orleans without destroying the team; Teague, Crawford, Hinrich, and Marvin plus cash or draft picks. Then we can sign Billups or Arenas to backup CP3.
You can’t be serious?
Teague, Crawford, Hinrich, and Marvin plus cash or draft picks?
They were getting Kevin Martin 23ppg, Louis Scola 18ppg 8rebs, LO 14ppg 10rebs, draft picks and a pg and Stern wouldn’t let it go. That trade would have made them a playoff team in the west.
Maybe
December 12th, 2011
2:45 pm
Two NBA Titles and three NBA finals apperances in the last four years and you just give up a key member of your frontcourt Smh!!!!
hawks_4_life
December 12th, 2011
2:45 pm
Wait Radmonovic is getting 6M per? WTF
vava74
December 12th, 2011
2:46 pm
Ra’mon,
drmaryB vented a rumour which is on the radio.
I countered with a piece of news which states that Howard no longer wants to leave ORL.
hawks_4_life
December 12th, 2011
2:50 pm
I wonder how Charle Garcia is doing.
vava74
December 12th, 2011
2:51 pm
Clippers – Hornets deal dead.
Geemack
December 12th, 2011
2:52 pm
The Hawks biggest problem is they won’t commit to defense.
Josh, Teague Al , & Joe all play well on the defense, but the team sucks as a defensive unit.
Here are the teams that will be ahead of the Hawks this year Boston, Miami, Chicago and New York.
This will be another year fighting for the 4th, or 5th seed, and a 2nd round playoff exit.