Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 3
Notes gathered while sleepwalking and dreaming about a sandwich. . . .
- Rick Sund said the Hawks are interested in Gilbert Arenas and Chauncey Billups if they clear amnesty waivers. If teams with cap space don’t bid on those players by tonight’s deadline, they become free agents. (Note: Arenas already has cleared waivers, according to ESPN’s Marc Stein, and wants to join up Dwight Howard.)
- Asked about acquiring another center, Sund said:”I like our ‘bigs.’ We’ve got so many players that are versatile. Larry [Drew] is comfortable using those guys in different position.”
- Billups isn’t a pure point guard but has great value for the Hawks because he can play the 2, is a big-time shotmaker and adds leadership and toughness. He’s also really, really good at doing something the Hawks were really, really bad at doing last season: getting to the free-throw line.
- The Hawks still have no plans to use their amnesty clause this season.
- Al Horford said he and fellow captains Josh Smith and Joe Johnson are still looking for the Hawks to make more moves after they added Tracy McGrady, Jason Collins and Vladimir Radmanovich. “I just hope they give us the opportunity to show something and still play at a high level,” Horford said. “Its’ a shortened season so there will be a lot more games in fewer days. So we need to have a deep team.”
- The feeling among Atlanta’s captains is they don’t want to take a step back after taking Chicago to six games. “You want to build on it,” Horford said. “We need some sort of depth. I think that’s what gave Chicago an edge over us. I think we wore down in the playoffs a little bit. If we are able to get some more pieces, we should be in good shape.”
- The Hawks scrimmaged for the first time today and us media types got to see the tail end. Jeff Teague was smooth and in control and Pape Sy made a couple nice pull-up jumpers.
- Horford on Teague: “I think he’s just more confident as a player. I think the playoffs helped him. I just hope he keeps that edge and confidence and keeps playing hard.”
- The Hawks ended practice with sprints. Teague, Johnson, Smith and Zaza Pachulia were out in front.
- I will say this about Josh: He’s a pro. There’s been no sign of discontent and lots of evidence that he’s focused and working hard. He frequently pulls younger players to the side and points out where they are supposed to do.
- Drew said Josh’s slimmer build doesn’t mean he will play him at power forward less often: “With him losing the weight, I see that he’s got his quickness back that he had when he first got here. He looks a lot faster, a lot quicker, which is a good sign because that’s been a strength of his game is his athleticism.”
- Funny exchange between Josh and assistant Lester Conner during the sprints. Conner: “They are going to be saying, ‘Damn them Hawks get out on the break!” Josh: “They was already saying that.”
- Not to judge a second-round rookie too harshly on his third day, but I don’t see Keith “Kito” Benson as a factor until he gets bigger and more aggressive. “I’m just trying to stay low in the post so I don’t get knocked off position,” he said. “I’m getting used to the stronger players that have played in the league.”
- Kito finds himself on the same floor as guys he once idolized. “[Jerry] Stackhouse was on the Pistons when I was younger so I used to watch him a lot,” he said. “I had the T-Mac shoes and everything.” I had those blue-and-white T-Macs, too.
- Horford on Kito: “He’s very athletic. He’s definitely going to have to work himself in the weight room a little more and get stronger but I like his enthusiasm and his energy. I’ve noticed that he can shoot a little bit in the mid-range area. That’s always good to see.”
- Rookie prospect Brad Wanamaker has yet to practice because FIBA hasn’t yet cleared him after he played in Italy. Wanamaker said an Italian holiday is holding up the paperwork but he hopes to be cleared by tomorrow.
- Atlanta’s $3.6 million trade exception from the Josh Childress deal expires on Dec. 16. Since the Hawks aren’t going to take on more salary than they send out, the exception will expire without being used.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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335 comments Add your comment
KirkZaza+2nd for KamanWillieWarren
December 11th, 2011
11:33 pm
Section 303
December 11th, 2011
11:04 pm
I watch the Clippers play all the time. They are kind of my “NBA League Pass Team”. You don’t want Chris Kamen. I know he sounds good. He’s a big and those are hard to find. However, there is something about him….he just can’t get over the hump. He’s just kind of average.
I would not give up a bag of balls for Chris Kamen.
Your opinion means nothing. Chris Kaman has had borderline all-star years. Chris Kaman would be more valuable than Kirk and Zaza put together. Don’t tell me what I don’t want. You are a loser and wan’t to continue to lose.
Michael Cunningham
December 11th, 2011
11:36 pm
@Norcross: “MC, what do you think of Pape Sy?”
don’t have much to judge him on. it’s too bad it’s not a normal preseason with five or six games. i’d like to see more of him.
Michael Cunningham
December 11th, 2011
11:38 pm
@Ryan: “MC, The new CBA is a bit convoluted, but, if you could, can you give us an idea of where the Hawks stand in assumed committed salary (assuming your guesses to who makes camp or at least what salary range will more than likely assume bench positions) and how much will be left under the tax threshold to use toward signing someone? Thanks for the updates?”
check this recent blog post for details.
Michael Cunningham
December 11th, 2011
11:39 pm
@superiorblogman: “I like your realistic attitude this year MC.”
hopefully i’ve always been realistic.
Michael Cunningham
December 11th, 2011
11:44 pm
@Roy: “MC is there a chance the hawks could swing a trade with Sacramento for a jason thompson. They have a load of cap space and he would fill a need. Maybe we can ship out Marvin for him or something to that effect.”
don’t think Sacto would trade a cheap big prospect with potential for Marvin.
UGA
December 11th, 2011
11:48 pm
Don’t the Hawks need a backup 2G???? What is the market for Michael Redd and Willie Green??
Big Dog
December 11th, 2011
11:51 pm
“What is Horford supposed to be? Become our designated thug and start “TJ fording” folk and jeopardizing others careers? Hes not a shot blocker. Hes not KG. Hes not Amare. Hes not Zach. Heck I checked his draftexpress measurements and hes not even David West.
This guy has the equivalent physical tools of Josh McRoberts and Ahmad Nivins and you guys should be happy hes been voted into All Star benches and his trade value is this high.
Hes not an anchor on either side of the ball and he realizes that. You know whos an anchor drawing double teams on offense? JJ. You know whos an anchor rejecting and altering shots on defense? SF Josh Smith.
Trade Horford for a PF shooter and a defensive anchor center. Tell MIL Horford is unhappy but hes young and healthy. The Horford experiment is done.” – Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
JJSLB I think youve got this wrong, Al has never been voted onto an alstar team, hes always been a coaches pick. To clarify, the fans have never voted Al to the Allstar team other than that your point as usual is made as far as I can see.
JaeEvolution
December 11th, 2011
11:57 pm
Thabeet was amnestied by the Rockets…pick him up what’s really to lose by it?
superiorblogman
December 12th, 2011
12:08 am
JaeEvolution
December 11th, 2011
11:57 pm
Thabeet was amnestied by the Rockets…pick him up what’s really to lose by it?
Where did you see that? If he was someone will probably pick him up for league minimum and try to fix him
KevinM
December 12th, 2011
12:13 am
Haha, even Thabeet will get paid to not show up……
If we amnestied Marvin, we still wouldn’t replace that salary. We would be stuck at the ‘ASG’ salary cap, and that’s worse than the restricted NBA cap.
superiorblogman
December 12th, 2011
12:17 am
If Thabeet was really a amnesty victim please pick him up if he clears waivers Sund. Please. Pretty please. All I want is hope of a real C in a Hawks uniform. Please ask Sund about Thabeet if it is true he was a amnesty victim MC. Will you MC? Please.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
December 12th, 2011
12:33 am
“Asked about acquiring another center, Sund said:”I like our ‘bigs.’ We’ve got so many players that are versatile”
This guy always seems to amaze me. We have the same bigs as last year and he likes them. The same bigs that got stomped by Chicago in the playoffs. Was Sund not watching that series as the Bulls frontcourt got offensive rebound after rebound over the Hawks? Even my unborn daughter (not even concieved yet) could see the Hawks front court was subpar and needed a upgrade over the summer. But Sund is happy with them. SMGDH
FIRE SUND
Grandad
December 12th, 2011
12:57 am
My apologies to all
as I have not been able to follow along today.
Please go get Chauncey.
Whomever is saying; ["Sund"]
“we like our Bigs” – is being foolish.
it’s okay to like them, but, to think that our Bigs
are of championship caliber, is downright horse douvers !
Sund … Go get a legit Big + another Big that Rebounds !
Otherwise, just shut the Helots up.
Greg
December 12th, 2011
1:03 am
Actually, I think there’s a case to be made for Billups coming to ATL over MIA… we can offer practically the same minutes and we have greater latitude to pay him more. But if I were him, I wouldn’t do it unless there was an evident stronger commitment on the part of the ownership to win a championship… and that would require making an evident effort toward obtaining a big that can score from the post.
superiorblogman
December 12th, 2011
1:05 am
Billups will not be coming to ATL. He will go to the Lakers,Miami, or if legal back to NY. Why would someone nearing the end of there career come to a team that is obviously not willing to do anything possible within the CBA to get what they need to win it all? That’s like saying, I know I am dying soon but I think I still have time to waste. Who does that other than a idiot?
bird
December 12th, 2011
1:25 am
Billups ain’t walking through that door.. Jamal ain’t either, and neither is Arenas. Basically we’re screwed. I’ll still go down to the highlight factory a few times this year. Being a diehard Hawks fan sucks.
Ra'mon
December 12th, 2011
1:26 am
As much as I would love to see Billups come to Atlanta, I wouldn’t be surprised if Billups signed back with Denver! Denver is his home, and he didn’t want to leave there last season.
Greg
December 12th, 2011
1:41 am
To reiterate… I said “there’s a case to be made” based on similarity of minutes and the fact that even with the tax situation, we still have more $ to offer than MIA… and I said that if I were Billups I still wouldn’t come to ATL without having some empirical evidence that there’s a commitment to winning it all, which equates to spending into the tax and being willing to go get a big if/when the opportunity arises.
zachdahater
December 12th, 2011
1:48 am
conspiracy theory
What if the Hawks organization is not trying to get a CENTER in Atlanta to frustrate fans, and then because of lack of fan support, the FRANCHISE will have to be MOVED!!!……That’s the only logical explanation to me as to why we never go after ANY centers, and are going after PG and SGs when we are borderline loaded at those positions.
BEFORE ANYTHING, get a BIG in here. “I like our bigs”, PLEASE!! Your own center doesn’t like our bigs. We should be chasing Dalembert and Dampier. SCREW DWIGHT HOWARD!!! We just need a LEGIT Center. Not a PF/Center, but a LEGIT center. A center who is SOMEWHAT of a threat to score. Goofy Jason Collins won’t cut it, I hyperventilate whenever we has the ball. Get a center who knows what to do with the rock!
we’re alright at PG Teague/Sy/Hinrich (If he weren’t injured we’d be good, just hold out til Feb)
we’re good at SG Joe/Mcgrady/Stackhouse?
we’re GREAT SF Josh/Marvin(Healthy)/Mcgrady/Radmanovic
we’re good at PF Horford/Smith/ Rolle > Benson/Radmanovic
WORRY ABOUT THE CENTER!! GO HAWKS!!! Horford/Pachulia/Collins
Also, remember when Marvin was that reliable mid-range guy? Back in 06, 07, 08. He’s healthy now, health is very important, we have a BENCH this year, ALL WE NEED IS A FREAKING CENTER!!!!
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 12th, 2011
1:56 am
zachdahater
I think Stern has some compromising pics of Sund or ASG…
But a center wont work for obvious reasons. You want to get bigger so you can rebound and score easy inside paint shots but to do that you must keep Smith inside or its counterproductive.
Hence 6′8 Marvin becoming 6′10 Vlad Spazmanovic. Smith is a PnR power 3 and you need a stretch 4.
Horford at the 4 with Josh Smith at 3 and then a center? Who will shoot? That will force the Hawks to trade the “nice guy” Horford because it will be exposed Josh + Horf wont work and then Sund/ASG feels they’ll be forced to trade B.G.Al at a discount. I say get him out of here and toss in a pick for Bogut and Leuer.
Im tired of scrounging the garbage can for a center when we know that it does nothing for Horfords offense and kills Smiths offense by moving him outside.
A Power 3 needs a Stretch 4. Rasheed, Leuer, Gugliotta. Plain and simple.
Buddy Grizzard
December 12th, 2011
2:33 am
Thanks for all the great updates MC… you really are in mid season form.
Sleepy
December 12th, 2011
3:01 am
Someone should probably tell our captains that we wont be paying the luxury tax so they better get used to working with what they have .
MC – you have one of the best nba beat writer blogs in the nba going here . You always have lots of good information
superiorblogman
December 12th, 2011
4:29 am
Here is a idea. Why doesn’t the ASG just quit like N.O. former owner and give the team back to the NBA so we can get some favorable treatment like Stern vetoing bad moves or trades. I really think that is the answer Stern knows Atlanta is a goldmine for entertainment and it is not being tapped because of the ASG. He would probably give us Chris Paul as a boost for some potential owner
Hmmmm
December 12th, 2011
5:25 am
Carmelo is a power 3 but opposing defenses have to respect his distance shooting. No one cares if Josh hangs out behind the arc shooting all game because he’ll shoot the Hawks right out of the game. Josh is best suited to be a 6th man on a championship club, a la Lamar Odom. Depending on him to be a reliable SF is asking for trouble.
hawks_4_life
December 12th, 2011
5:47 am
When did the Clippers have more value and buzz than us?
Ken Strickland
December 12th, 2011
5:57 am
It appears we have another fan with a MAN CRUSH on Thabeet. Also, if he is what you consider a real center, then I’d like to know what your definition of a real center is. Except for blocks(.3-.2), JCollins was more productive than he was last season. Thabeet is a joke, and only wishful thinking, or downright foolishness, would make anyone with a basketball IQ think he’s anything more.
In a league that’s desperate for Bigs, there’s a good reason there is a list of available 6′11″ plus centers that can be had for the minimum. We are already 4 deep in potential backup centers(Zaza, Collins, Rolle, Benson), so we don’t need another one just to occupy bench space. We need another PG more than another bench warming center.
There just isn’t anyone out there who’s worthy of us going into the luxury tax to acquire. You only go into luxury tax territory when you can acquire a starting caliber player that can definitely impact your team.
hawks_4_life
December 12th, 2011
6:01 am
Hawks not going to be a player in free agency for another two years when Marvin and Josh get off the books. Also hopefully then we can amnesty Joe, until then its just going through the motions.
hawks_4_life
December 12th, 2011
6:07 am
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/atlanta.htm
terrell
December 12th, 2011
6:24 am
Horford needs to be in the weight room his damn self. lol.
terrell
December 12th, 2011
6:33 am
They must still like their “core”. LMAO.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 12th, 2011
6:42 am
AMNESTY ASG
FIRE SUND
Demetrius
December 12th, 2011
7:11 am
“When did the Clippers have more value and buzz than us”
When they drafted Blake Griffin…
terrell
December 12th, 2011
7:43 am
Dude said Thabeet and REAL CENTER in the same sentence. lol
vava74
December 12th, 2011
8:19 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFGMNLiCzHc&feature=related
don’t miss this.
vava74
December 12th, 2011
8:36 am
Clutch stats 2010/11:
For those enamoured with Jamal, he was the 4th guy in clutch time last year:
JJ (very sub-par year, with sub-par numbers), Horford (with great numbers), Smith (excellent numbers) and only then, Jamal (sup-par numbers) and not far behind Bibby (with decent numbers).
As I said, Jamal does most of the damage against second tier teams and second tier rotations and his presence on court in the 4th quarter did not result into significant production.
STRETCH
December 12th, 2011
8:47 am
“Asked about acquiring another center, Sund said:”I like our ‘bigs.’ We’ve got so many players that are versatile”
TRANSLATION: “Were not spending cause we dont have any. Deal with it.”
It just amazes me how all 3 major sports teams in Atlanta seem to put out mediocre talent year end and year out. They are like that girlfriend who is good enough to sleep with, but not good enough to commit to.
Its always something that gets you happy about them and then you dont like them. All 3 of these teams have been around for atleast 50 years. THREE teams and what? One World Series.
I still support my teams, but i know not to get to excited about none of them.
darrell starks
December 12th, 2011
8:50 am
Bring Thabeet right now, i don’t what happen to this guy but he can play basketball, i don’t no if coaching have failed him at the next level or desire, bring him in if available, in college he dominated the paint on defense rebonding and block shots, maybe he can rejuvenate his career with change of scenery.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 12th, 2011
8:56 am
Get rid of the scrubs and sign Thabeet now, Scrubs Magnum Rolle, Vladimir Radmanovic, Wannamaker.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 12th, 2011
9:06 am
WOW!
“He would give us a starting lineup of SG-Billups, PG-Teague, SF-JJ, PF-JSmith, and C-Horford. Our bench would then be MWilliams, TMac, Zaza, Twin, Radmanovic, Hinrich, and Rolle.” -ken strickland-
________________
Very, Very, very Nice lineup! Formidable for sure.
darrell starks
December 12th, 2011
9:10 am
http://youtu.be/IKW81-xssqM
darrell starks
December 12th, 2011
9:14 am
DEFENSE, DEFENSE, DEFENSE IS THE WAY.
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, THABEET.
RESERVE PAPE, STACK, TMAC, MARVIN, ZAZA
RESERVE BENSON, COLLINS
STREET CLOTHES WANNAMAKER, VLAD
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
vava74
December 12th, 2011
9:18 am
darrell,
V-Rad has been in the league for ages. Not a really good player, but he has been able to keep himself afloat.
Thabeet is considered BY EVERYONE a major bust. He has been playing bball for only 8/9 years and his SOLE ASSET is the fact that he is 7′3” and a wingspan to go with it.
IF, we signed him, it would have to be for the minimum and we should look at him strictly as a situational shot-blocker and that’s it.
Patrolling the lane in College???? Do you remember Shelden the Landlord Williams? He patrolled and OWNED the lane in college ball.
THAT MEANS ZERO.
Look at Hilton Armstrong? Another good defensive player in college. How that played out?
You need physical and technical skills AND you need desire. Thabeet has been tabbed as lazy and disinterested, which is not the right formula for a guy who is tremendously raw and NOT PARTICULARLY TALENTED.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 12th, 2011
9:19 am
Shout Out!
Just wanna’ give some kudos and a really big shout out to MC. That man is on Fiyah!
darrell starks
December 12th, 2011
9:20 am
http://youtu.be/-bky01IJtGs
J from the A
December 12th, 2011
9:33 am
Are you all so enamored with getting a “true*” center, that you all are actually advocating bringing in Thabeet? Thabeet is garbage.
Until Kirk gets back, there is a major void in the Guard rotation. The Hawks #1 priority right now should be to try to get a serviceable PG. Billups would be nice, but let us not kid ourselves: Chances that Billups would come here is pretty slim (though I don’t think quite 0).
J from the A
December 12th, 2011
9:35 am
from previous post
*’true’ center for many of you seems to mean anyone 7ft or taller.
darrell starks
December 12th, 2011
9:36 am
VaVA74 Thabeet is 7′3 AND Hilton is 6′11 there is a big different between the 2, plus only 24years of age, still very young i have seen Thabeet play ball and understand his career have the potential to be speciall, JUST BRING HIM WANT HURT AT ALL, iF YOU CAN BRING IN SCRUBS LIKE WANNAMAKER, MAGNUM, VLAD, why not take a chance on a legit 7′3 center only 24years old.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Trojan
December 12th, 2011
9:46 am
Thabeet is a long shot at best but atleast he is a longshot. Our bench is made up of much worse. The Hawks are never going to be able to compete unless a long shot or two pays off.
What would it hurt for Thabeet to be the 13 player on the roster at the minimum?
vava74
December 12th, 2011
9:47 am
legit 7′3” human being.
Legit C? Heck, what sport have you been following?
O'Brien
December 12th, 2011
9:58 am
Clippers and Hornets working on a deal for CP3.
Could the Hawks not come up with a better package than the Clippers (assuming the Clippers are not giving up Griffin, Gordon, or Jordan)?