Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 3
Notes gathered while sleepwalking and dreaming about a sandwich. . . .
- Rick Sund said the Hawks are interested in Gilbert Arenas and Chauncey Billups if they clear amnesty waivers. If teams with cap space don’t bid on those players by tonight’s deadline, they become free agents. (Note: Arenas already has cleared waivers, according to ESPN’s Marc Stein, and wants to join up Dwight Howard.)
- Asked about acquiring another center, Sund said:”I like our ‘bigs.’ We’ve got so many players that are versatile. Larry [Drew] is comfortable using those guys in different position.”
- Billups isn’t a pure point guard but has great value for the Hawks because he can play the 2, is a big-time shotmaker and adds leadership and toughness. He’s also really, really good at doing something the Hawks were really, really bad at doing last season: getting to the free-throw line.
- The Hawks still have no plans to use their amnesty clause this season.
- Al Horford said he and fellow captains Josh Smith and Joe Johnson are still looking for the Hawks to make more moves after they added Tracy McGrady, Jason Collins and Vladimir Radmanovich. “I just hope they give us the opportunity to show something and still play at a high level,” Horford said. “Its’ a shortened season so there will be a lot more games in fewer days. So we need to have a deep team.”
- The feeling among Atlanta’s captains is they don’t want to take a step back after taking Chicago to six games. “You want to build on it,” Horford said. “We need some sort of depth. I think that’s what gave Chicago an edge over us. I think we wore down in the playoffs a little bit. If we are able to get some more pieces, we should be in good shape.”
- The Hawks scrimmaged for the first time today and us media types got to see the tail end. Jeff Teague was smooth and in control and Pape Sy made a couple nice pull-up jumpers.
- Horford on Teague: “I think he’s just more confident as a player. I think the playoffs helped him. I just hope he keeps that edge and confidence and keeps playing hard.”
- The Hawks ended practice with sprints. Teague, Johnson, Smith and Zaza Pachulia were out in front.
- I will say this about Josh: He’s a pro. There’s been no sign of discontent and lots of evidence that he’s focused and working hard. He frequently pulls younger players to the side and points out where they are supposed to do.
- Drew said Josh’s slimmer build doesn’t mean he will play him at power forward less often: “With him losing the weight, I see that he’s got his quickness back that he had when he first got here. He looks a lot faster, a lot quicker, which is a good sign because that’s been a strength of his game is his athleticism.”
- Funny exchange between Josh and assistant Lester Conner during the sprints. Conner: “They are going to be saying, ‘Damn them Hawks get out on the break!” Josh: “They was already saying that.”
- Not to judge a second-round rookie too harshly on his third day, but I don’t see Keith “Kito” Benson as a factor until he gets bigger and more aggressive. “I’m just trying to stay low in the post so I don’t get knocked off position,” he said. “I’m getting used to the stronger players that have played in the league.”
- Kito finds himself on the same floor as guys he once idolized. “[Jerry] Stackhouse was on the Pistons when I was younger so I used to watch him a lot,” he said. “I had the T-Mac shoes and everything.” I had those blue-and-white T-Macs, too.
- Horford on Kito: “He’s very athletic. He’s definitely going to have to work himself in the weight room a little more and get stronger but I like his enthusiasm and his energy. I’ve noticed that he can shoot a little bit in the mid-range area. That’s always good to see.”
- Rookie prospect Brad Wanamaker has yet to practice because FIBA hasn’t yet cleared him after he played in Italy. Wanamaker said an Italian holiday is holding up the paperwork but he hopes to be cleared by tomorrow.
- Atlanta’s $3.6 million trade exception from the Josh Childress deal expires on Dec. 16. Since the Hawks aren’t going to take on more salary than they send out, the exception will expire without being used.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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335 comments Add your comment
Rufus1
December 11th, 2011
8:56 pm
Ask Al…
What 10mil a year “banger” are we going to get…..We pay you 12mil a year to be that person and Zaza 5mil to be your back-up….Tell your coach to use him. We also have a 6′8 240lbs SG and a 6′9 240lbs SF, tell them to crash the boards.
Most teams only go 8 or 9 dept….Back-up PG, SG, SF, and PF/C…So how many “bigs” do we need? The coach needs to use the players he has and stop making excuses. We wasted 2 draft picks because he wouldn’t play Teague and cost us the 5th game in the Bulls series when he sat Zaza.
The talent is on this team, LD need to live up to it.
Roy
December 11th, 2011
8:57 pm
MC is there a chance the hawks could swing a trade with Sacramento for a jason thompson. They have a load of cap space and he would fill a need. Maybe we can ship out Marvin for him or something to that effect.
riche
December 11th, 2011
8:58 pm
billups could be a good pick up for the hawks. play teauge at the point and play chauncey at the 2. Move Joe to the three and put horford and josh down low. Has the potential to be a highscoring attack. But the Hawks wont win untill the get a legitimate big man. Sorry folks al horford isnt a center.
superiorblogman
December 11th, 2011
8:59 pm
Kirk, Zaza, and a 2nd round pick for Kaman and Willie Warren
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cwfed8z
Astro Joe
December 11th, 2011
9:00 pm
northcyde, I understand and you won’t read posts from me declaring that we are on our way to the ECF… I’m one of the few who actually really enjoys the regular season and so I’ll focus on the next 4 months of entertaining ball before worrying about what waits us next.
Maybe
December 11th, 2011
9:01 pm
We should be able to add Kyrylo Fesenko for 1.5mill w/o going over the 71mill tax line. Like I said, he’s a big boy and good defensively. He’s been in the league a while so I don’t know what vet min would be for him. Sund is stupid. If AL wants another “BIG” then Fesenko is the guy.
Oh and Chi isn’t going into lux-tax land either. They’re getting Rip for vet-min smh.
Trading Marvin/Kirk/Zaza is what we should look at to gain flexibility. PG,SF,C that’s a sold bench for anybody. We should tell teams were packaging them together. Take it or leave it. Throw in Benson/Rolle too lol.
Big Dog
December 11th, 2011
9:04 pm
“Big Ray . . and that’s why I want Al Horford to SHUT THE HELL UP.”
Now now NorthCyde! ROFLMAO,
Please dont hate horford. LMAO..
“im gonna play center and power forward, but may natural position is power forward, yall figure that Ch!t out” – A.H.
Sautee cover your eyes til the page changes.
MattP
December 11th, 2011
9:07 pm
riche
December 11th, 2011
8:58 pm
billups could be a good pick up for the hawks. play teauge at the point and play chauncey at the 2. Move Joe to the three and put horford and josh down low. Has the potential to be a highscoring attack. But the Hawks wont win untill the get a legitimate big man. Sorry folks al horford isnt a center.
_______________________________________________________________________________
That really sounds good. I wish they would go back to playing Horford at 5, they could always switch it up to Zaza/Collins when we are playing centers like Howard or Bynum. Hawks need to face the fact that they will never win a championship with the Owners/GM they have. Look how long we had this core of Johnson/Horford/Smith, and we stilll are going with it and hardly no changes.
cp
December 11th, 2011
9:08 pm
I hope this ends all the Benson and Rolle talk. We need some legit bigs in here who can come contribute. This front office is a joke. They wont get anything for their best bench player nor will they use the trade exception . They continue to waste assets.
KirkZaza+2nd for KamanWillieWarren
December 11th, 2011
9:09 pm
Kirk, Zaza +2nd for Kaman and Willie Warren. Teams like the Spurs are watching the Kaman situation because they know how valuable he could be for a contender. Heck, he would get us closer to the ECFinals, something that Kirk can’t do. We must act fast. Clip are about to re-sign De-Andre Jordan to 4 year $10 million. You don’t do that for a backup. He is going to be there starter. Kaman is available. Sund is too incompetent to see that.
EmirS.
December 11th, 2011
9:13 pm
Enter your comments here
O'Brien
December 11th, 2011
9:18 pm
“Atlanta’s $3.6 million trade exception from the Josh Childress deal expires on Dec. 16. Since the Hawks aren’t going to take on more salary than they send out, the exception will expire without being used. ”.
So basically, the Hawks lost the 6th pick for nothing. Another example of mismanagement of assets. We should have traded Childress before letting him go overseas.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 11th, 2011
9:19 pm
Re: northcyde
Horford is no Mourning. Mourning was a freak of nature
http://ww.draftexpress.com/profile/Alonzo-Mourning-3677/
Height w/o Shoes
6′ 9.5″
Wingspan
7′ 6.5″
That means Mourning was almost 6′11 and the length of a man 7 foot 7. Horford aint touching that.
Horford
Height w/o Shoes
6′8.75″
Wingspan
7′0.75
Thats McRoberts height and length.
Re: Slimjr
“The Hawks are shuffling their feet with Al Horford. He exceeded out of college but hes not the star PF we hoped for. You need a star center or SF to create for him. We have a Marion type in Josh. We can get a star center for Horford. We can get a better shooting option at PF than Vladimir “Space Cadet aka Air Head” Radmanovic. The Hawks are done with the Al Horford + Josh at SF + center model. Time for the Josh Smith + PF shooter + center model.”
@Jeff I agree, Big Al should be shopped to take it to the next level but this guy looks to be an untouchable by Sund and Ownership group?
Sund said Horford was not untouchable if it improves the team. Smith at the 3 is easy to build.
Add a Stretch 4 and a defensive anchor.
Smith + Vlade + Horford will not get it done. < Smith + Leuer + Bogut
I think MIL will stumble out the gates and give it up for youth easy.
O'Brien
December 11th, 2011
9:19 pm
With Orlando, Arenas shot 28% from 3, 34% from the field. And he averaged 3 apg, to go along with 2 turnovers per game. In only 22 mpg. Stay away from Agent Zero.
Billups averaged 17 pts, 5 assists and 2 turnovers per game in 32 mpg. And he shot 40% from 3.
I would take Billups, because he will help in the leadership department, and he can play both PG and SG.
Arenas might ask Teague to play cards with him.
Harry Hawk
December 11th, 2011
9:25 pm
Billups will sign with Miami. LeBron is going to win his title this year. Battier and Billups will add all kinds of toughness to that squad.
Ra'mon
December 11th, 2011
9:30 pm
Harry Hawk, you won’t find many players in the league tougher than Haslem. Billups will be the 2nd best pg on their roster though (Lebron is the first, lol).
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 11th, 2011
9:31 pm
Re: Rufus1
What 10mil a year “banger” are we going to get…..We pay you 12mil a year to be that person and Zaza 5mil to be your back-up….Tell your coach to use him. We also have a 6′8 240lbs SG and a 6′9 240lbs SF, tell them to crash the boards.
Josh Smith is a 6′8 225 SF. And Marvin was drafted for perimeter shooting and athletic slashing. Thought hed be Paul Pierce 2.0. Smh fail.
Now Vlade is needed for shooting but brings no size or toughness. Nothing.
And Horford is a low risk low reward scorer. No one wants to get doubled and then pass to a teammate who misses a wide open 2.
At least be a 3 point shooter or someone who can slash to the rim for hoop and harm. Thats why Smith is seen as a better Power Forward. All though he’s a Power 3, hes a more conventional faceup slasher and inside power player.
You play Horford at the elbow next to a Dwight Howard but we cant afford those guys. Last I heard Bynum + Gasol was the offer from ORL to LA.
You think ORL wants to see Dwight win somewhere else they would ream and gut us.
riche
December 11th, 2011
9:32 pm
just read this tweet. Thought all hawks fans would think its funny.
“I can’t believe Mike Bibby is going to play another season…he couldn’t cross up a deacon in a church basketball league.”
EmirS.
December 11th, 2011
9:34 pm
“With Orlando, Arenas shot 28% from 3, 34% from the field. And he averaged 3 apg, to go along with 2 turnovers per game. In only 22 mpg. Stay away from Agent Zero.” -O’Brien
Lol your right. There’s also a reason he isn’t called “Agent Zero” anymore.
darrell starks
December 11th, 2011
9:39 pm
joe.jeff.smith.Leuer.Bogut. you make a lot of sense bro, i can’t understand when will the Sund wake up, this team with MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD starting in front court will not get it done, 4 YEARS IS ENOUGH.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YO YO YO
December 11th, 2011
9:41 pm
Horford asks for more depth, the same thing everyone in this blod is screaming for, yet you idiots are bashing him for it?
Fanbase full of idiots. Yeah, go ahead and trade him and leave the franchise in the hands of a PF who insists on going 2-10 every night from three. LMAO
Pow
December 11th, 2011
9:46 pm
“Josh Smith is a 6′8 225 SF.”
LOL… Josh is not a small forward. He isn’t stretching the defense, he won’t lock down any decent wing player, and he’s not a ballhandler.
darrell starks
December 11th, 2011
9:46 pm
Coach LD will be in a rude of waking this year, with Horford starting at center, every year us bloggers have the same conversation about Hawks going after a center, Horford has repeated this along with FANS for years on getting a legit big in here, but Sund is happy what a waste.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
ryan
December 11th, 2011
9:46 pm
Why we keep bashing this team when we have made the playoffs back to back with 2 different coach’s Drew and Woodson its not the players its the ownership bottom line
MattP
December 11th, 2011
9:48 pm
Some are pissed because Horford is saying we need another big, which is true. No one has said anything about Horford asking for more depth. They Hawks do need to go for depth because they don’t have a true center, but there are some that need to finish of under the rim, which is what Collins does not do, to be honesty Collins doesn’t do much at all.
Alot of us are pissed because they had this same core for like 4-5 years and nothing is being done.
riche
December 11th, 2011
9:53 pm
if getting to the playoffs and getting blown out in the second round was a goal then the hawks are the best team in the league. Its a damn shame Sund forked over all that cash to bring back Joe when he could have used it to get multiple guys to actually help our team
MattP
December 11th, 2011
9:54 pm
ryan
December 11th, 2011
9:46 pm
Why we keep bashing this team when we have made the playoffs back to back with 2 different coach’s Drew and Woodson its not the players its the ownership bottom line
_________________________________________________________________________
No point in bragging about making the playoffs that much because we have the talent to easily win enough regular season games. The reason they have done it so much in a row is because they do nothing with the core like other teams would do to try and fix. You would think they would do something when they get blown-out in the 2nd round 2 times in a row. All they did was find a cheap coach…
ryan
December 11th, 2011
10:02 pm
That why i say its the owners and GM they would not hire Avery Johnson when they had the chance .
Oye
December 11th, 2011
10:03 pm
The goal shouldn’t be just to get to the playoffs, but Ryan’s point is right that our fans are some of the worst in sports because the Hawks have been the most successful of our three pro teams in recent years, yet all everyone talks the worse about them. Also, look at team like the Blazers… haven’t been out of the first round in a decade and drafted a total bust in Greg Oden, yet their fans are as fired up EVERY SEASON even though they have NO chance to make noise in the West which these clowns in here sit and pout.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 11th, 2011
10:05 pm
Josh Smith is a 6′8 225 SF.”
LOL… Josh is a Power 3. He plays like a center but can d up guys his size. Defense plays the passing lanes like a monster. Offense. You put him on the baseline and run pick and rolls and tell him to grab the offensive boards. Thats why we got a stretch 4. A perimeter power forward so we can stick him inside and still add size.
We could get a better perimeter 4, you know one with defense and upside but that would mean giving up 12ppg tweener Horford and hurting Marvin Gaye William’s feelings.
Maybe we should pursue Kwame James Brown for 12ppg Horford and put Josh on the perimeter?
Fat Smith was putting in work on the aging Paul Pierce. We’ll see what he can do against the elite SFs in the league. Itll be interesting if they choose to defend Vladimir because unlike Leuer he cant post them up.
As for Smith Lebron Deng and Granger can defend Smith in the PnR. But doughboys Pierce and Carmelo HIGHLY doubt it.
Heres some skinny young Josh vs Carmelo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfKWYzcDM0Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1PyBEbX5Y4
Mo + Josh vs KMart + Carmelo (small Hawks)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMSiq5e7viM
Hope 6′8 Vlade can box out better than Mo.
tweener Marvin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Xq0EiErhQ
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 11th, 2011
10:06 pm
Josh Smith is a 6′8 225 SF.”
LOL… Josh is a Power 3. He plays like a center but can d up guys his size. Defense plays the passing lanes like a monster. Offense. You put him on the baseline and run pick and rolls and tell him to grab the offensive boards. Thats why we got a stretch 4. A perimeter power forward so we can stick him inside and still add size.
We could get a better perimeter 4, you know one with defense and upside but that would mean giving up 12ppg tweener Horford and hurting Marvin Gaye William’s feelings.
Maybe we should pursue Kwame James Brown for 12ppg Horford and put Josh on the perimeter?
Fat Smith was putting in work on the aging Paul Pierce. We’ll see what he can do against the elite SFs in the league. Itll be interesting if they choose to defend Vladimir because unlike Leuer he cant post them up.
As for Smith Lebron Deng and Granger can defend Smith in the PnR. But doughboys Pierce and Carmelo HIGHLY doubt it.
Pow, YO YO YO
December 11th, 2011
10:08 pm
YO YO YO, Pow You guys mysteriously appear when ever a regular wants to say some thing but not get called on the carpet for it. Then you mysteriously disappear.
Tell my which of you is the puppet master of these trolls. Man up and say whats on your mind under your real names.
Pow, YO YO YO
December 11th, 2011
10:10 pm
They are probably pissed cause Horford wont man up an play is position on the team.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 11th, 2011
10:11 pm
Greg Oden’s a bust because he cant play. Not because he isnt good when he steps on the floor.
This team gets bashed because medicocrity is not to be strived for. We dont pay for mediocrity we pay for excitement and dramatic moments.
We dont pay to watch them compete with garbage teams that arent as talented and get blown out in the playoffs.
Josh + 7′0 Leuer + 7′0 Bogut, The bench depth is nasty,
get it done. Lets take down some super teams.
KevinM
December 11th, 2011
10:12 pm
To be a Hawks fan is quite simple:
1) You don’t exeed the luxury cap.
2) You don’t use any MLE granted to you for any reason.
3) You extend your current players and you don’t get into bidding wars.
4) You overvalue your own players enough that there will be little interest in trade discussions.
5) You admit your adulation for your own roster and feel very good about competing for a playoff position in the coming season.
6) You never admit publically that there is a need to improve your team through trades or free agency. Every member is valuable to the success of the organization and are considered in the ‘prime’ of your career.
7) You always allow players no longer under contract to go find a better deal if they can. Compensation not needed.
Did I leave anything out?
KirkZaza+2nd for KamanWillieWarren
December 11th, 2011
10:16 pm
Kirk, Zaza, and a 2nd rd pick for Chris Kaman and Willie Warren.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi … Id=cgg6ajy
Take Zaza’s salary from next year and we are under the salary cap not just luxury, but we are under the cap. $55.67 We have almost $15 million to work with. We could re-sign Kaman and go from there. One thing is for sure we would have a better 6 under contract and we would be under the luxury after re-signing Kaman. We could actually amnesty Marvin at that point and get to $47 million which would be $11 million under and think about a big time pick up. This would be a great trade. Rather we re-sign Kaman or not making this trade would give us flexibility by getting rid of Zaza’s contract.
MattP
December 11th, 2011
10:18 pm
KevinM
December 11th, 2011
10:12 pm
To be a Hawks fan is quite simple:
1) You don’t exeed the luxury cap.
2) You don’t use any MLE granted to you for any reason.
3) You extend your current players and you don’t get into bidding wars.
4) You overvalue your own players enough that there will be little interest in trade discussions.
5) You admit your adulation for your own roster and feel very good about competing for a playoff position in the coming season.
6) You never admit publically that there is a need to improve your team through trades or free agency. Every member is valuable to the success of the organization and are considered in the ‘prime’ of your career.
7) You always allow players no longer under contract to go find a better deal if they can. Compensation not needed.
________________________________________________
Looks about right to me, lol. This ownership is a joke.
KirkZaza+2nd for KamanWillieWarren
December 11th, 2011
10:18 pm
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cgg6ajy
Big
December 11th, 2011
10:26 pm
Enter your comments here
Neki
December 11th, 2011
10:28 pm
Oye,
Here is the reason why most of here pouts, Hawks never been in the ECF ever in Atlanta, Can you honest say that we can go against Bulls, Heat, C’s, Knicks in the second round and pass them with the same line-up like last year?
I know that is might be kind of hard to try to pick up players like Paul and Howard but at least try.
Big Dog
December 11th, 2011
10:30 pm
I would gladly have the hawks rent Howard for a season to see what he and Josh can do for the ATL than to wait 2 years and start rebuilding anyway.
Ken Strickland
December 11th, 2011
10:31 pm
How can the Hawks be considered an undersized team when they were taller than the Heat, who played in last yrs finals. We don’t have a single dominant type players, but we have a lot of talented players who are very versatile and athletic. I’m a firm believer that our biggest improvement will come from the improved play and confidence of the players we have, as well as the players we’ve acquired.
I project that a healthier MWilliams, a slimmer and stronger JCollins, a slimmer, quicker, and more athletic JSmith, and a far more confident JTeague will make a tremendous difference in this yrs team. If we can bridge the period until Hinrich returns, we’ll have a pretty solid bench. Zaza, Twin and Rolle gives us a lot of size, experience, versatility, and depth in the middle.
I don’t think it’ll matter much if we sign another minimum salaried Big. With 3 backup centers already on the roster, he’d probably end up being little more than another EThomas type bench warmer anyway. Rolle, or Benson, if he makes the 12 man roster, will provide Zaza and Twin with some shot blocking and rotational defensive help @ PF.
I project our bench to be comprised of Hinrich, TMac, Pape Sy, Twin, Zaza, Rolle, and radmanovic. However, Drew might decide to go with experience and replace Pape Sy with JStackhouse. I would love it if we could acquire CBillups. He would give us a starting lineup of SG-Billups, PG-Teague, SF-JJ, PF-JSmith, and C-Horford. Our bench would then be MWilliams, TMac, Zaza, Twin, Radmanovic, Hinrich, and Rolle.
MattP
December 11th, 2011
10:50 pm
You really are comparing Hawks to Heat? If so, please tell me what is our big 3?
Spyro
December 11th, 2011
10:55 pm
He would give us a starting lineup of SG-Billups, PG-Teague, SF-JJ, PF-JSmith, and C-Horford. Our bench would then be MWilliams, TMac, Zaza, Twin, Radmanovic, Hinrich, and Rolle.
The usual complainers here probably won’t admit it, but this would be a team to watch out for. Great defense and keeps Smoove and Horford more inside since JJ would be playing the 3. I like that roster.
EmirS.
December 11th, 2011
10:56 pm
@MattP
I think you missed his point. He said that “we’re taller then the Heat”.
EmirS.
December 11th, 2011
10:57 pm
^than*
MattP
December 11th, 2011
11:02 pm
He would give us a starting lineup of SG-Billups, PG-Teague, SF-JJ, PF-JSmith, and C-Horford. Our bench would then be MWilliams, TMac, Zaza, Twin, Radmanovic, Hinrich, and Rolle.
_____________________________________________________
I also like this but I don’t think we will be getting Billups. We do have a nice bench but I just wish ASG went after a decent starting center. I hate seeing Drew putting Collins in that starting line-up.
Section 303
December 11th, 2011
11:04 pm
I watch the Clippers play all the time. They are kind of my “NBA League Pass Team”. You don’t want Chris Kamen. I know he sounds good. He’s a big and those are hard to find. However, there is something about him….he just can’t get over the hump. He’s just kind of average.
I would not give up a bag of balls for Chris Kamen.
Spyro
December 11th, 2011
11:07 pm
303, do you know how much League Pass is gonna be this year?
Section 303
December 11th, 2011
11:17 pm
Spyro, No, I don’t. It will be prorated, though.
I can’t even remember how much it cost last year or the year before. I have it on automatic renewal on DirecTV. So, it just shows on my bill. I don’t even think about it.
By the way, the first year I had it (’07), I paid the entire cost upfront. Ever since then, it has shown on my bill in 4-5 monthly payments.
Anyways…if I had to guess at this year’s cost, I would guess around $130 for the season.