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Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 2: Still tax-strapped

8:47 pm December 10, 2011, by Michael Cunningham

From what I can gather, Rick Sund is exploring sign-and-trade scenarios for Jamal Crawford. But, so far, Sund does not have the green light to approve a transaction that results in a luxury tax payment. As long as that’s the case, I don’t see how it can happen.

Update 12:08 a.m.: The Knicks have expressed interest in Crawford, as reported by Alex Kennedy Hoopsworld.com and Sam Amick at SI.com. But still no word that Sund has been authorized to spend into the tax. Howard Beck of the New York Times reports that the Knicks will be over the cap once they complete their recent transactions. Their trades thus will be subject to salary-matching rules.

Update 10:09 a.m.: There’s still no indication that Sund has been authorized to spend more than the tax threshold but late last night he was looking for ways to gain some salary relief to get the Hawks further under the tax line. I’m not sure how the Hawks can shed significant team salary (money that counts towards the cap and tax) without using the amnesty clause but apparently Sund is looking for a way to so to gain flexibility to spend on free agents.

After signing Tracy Mc Grady, Jason Collins and Vladmir Radmanovic, Atlanta has roughly $67.7 million in guaranteed team salary committed to 10 players (assuming minimum salaries are the same as stipulated in the old CBA for 2011-12). Add Keith Benson, Pape Sy and Magnum Rolle and the team salary is about $69.7 million.

Atlanta could shed as much as $896,000 of its team salary (depending on any guarantees) by waving those three players and replacing all of them with rookie free agents. Those moves would leave the team salary at about $68.8 million. The luxury-tax threshold is a bit more than $70 million.

Under new CBA trade rules, teams over the cap that don’t pay the tax can acquire no more than 150% + $100,000 of the salaries they trade away. Taxpaying teams can acquire no more than 125% + $100,000 of the salaries they trade away. Since a team over the cap would be using a sign-and-trade to pay Crawford more than the $5 million mid-level, a sign-and-trade involving him would mean the Hawks would have to take back a salary amount that would put them over the tax threshold.

Obviously, the Hawks would pay some tax if they use a significant amount of their exceptions to pay Crawford or any other free agent. With so many teams holding cap room, I have to think Crawford will get more than the mid-level exception even with guys like Rip Hamilton, Chauncey Billups and Vince Carter crowding the market. The Hawks have resigned themselves to as much.

Days later and I’m still getting questions about the report suggesting a Hawks sign-and-trade with the Bulls that would swap Crawford for Omer Asik and Ronnie Brewer. I don’t think there is anything to that report, and not just because it would be a bad deal for the Bulls (which probably helps explain why the rumor is so popular among Hawks fans).

For one, the deal would require the Hawks to pay significant tax and, again, Sund doesn’t yet have the go-ahead to make that kind of deal and may not get it. Also, the Bulls still are focused on signing a free-agent guard using their mid-level exception, and it looks like they’ve got their man in Hamilton.

NOTES

  • As expected, the Hawks have no plans to use their amnesty clause this year. It can be used before any season of the CBA, which is for 10 years with mutual opt-outs for the owners and players after six years.
  • For now, the Hawks are scouring the free-agent value bin and the waiver wire for help. “We are still looking at what’s out there,” Larry Drew said. “We are keeping our ears open to see if anything falls through the cracks. It’s only the second preseason practice and we will just have to wait and see what happens.”
  • The Hawks are in the market for another center. Take a look at the list of free agents and you can see it’s very thin as far as rotation-quality guys.
  • The Hawks also are looking for a backup point guard as Kirk Hinrich heals from surgery. The free-agent list looks better for that position. Carlos Arroyo, for one, would be a serviceable stopgap.
  • Drew said the Hawks are interested in Gilbert Arenas if he clears the amnesty waiver wire. Teams with cap space get the first shot at him. If there are no bids he would become a free agent, though I’m not sure of the timing on that.
  • Billups is on the amnesty waiver wire but he’s warning he might retire or make trouble if he gets claimed by a team he doesn’t want to join.
  • The Knicks signed Mike Bibby. New York also reportedly is after free agent J.J. Barea, who probably would be an even better fit than Arroyo for Atlanta. Not sure he can be had for the minimum, though.
  • Damien Wilkins signed with the Pistons.

CAMP REPORT

  • These were the teams when the Hawks ran drills during the portion of practice media were allowed to watch: 1. Jeff Teague, Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, Josh Smith, Al Horford. 2. Pape Sy, Jerry Stackhouse, Tracy McGrady, Zaza Pachulia, Jason Collins. 3. Donald Sloan, Zach Graham, Ivan Johnson, Charles Garcia, Keith Benson
  • “We are just looking at different guys on different teams,” L.D. said. “There is no set lineup right now. We are looking at different combinations.”
  • For the second straight camp, Collins showed up in better shape than the year before. Now he’s not only fit but also more muscular. “I know that there is one player in particular that I need to go up against,” Collins said, and I don’t think he’s talking about Joel Anthony. “I really focused this offseason on getting in the best possible position to help my team.”
  • Drew said he plans to use Collins the same way he did last season. “We will look at the opponent and see what works best as far as matchup-wise,” he said. “Certainly he gives us a chance to go pretty big.”
  • Collins joins a long list of Hawks players who showed up in good shape. “Very, very encouraging,” Drew said. “It’s easy for a guy with the lockout to lay around and eat and not do anything, particularly if you have that type body. Certainly [Collins] didn’t take that approach.”
  • Collins said his play against Dwight Howard in the playoffs drew the attention of a few teams, including the Celtics. “I chose to come back here and one of the reasons was the coaching staff and players,” he said. “I am very familiar with everyone and we all get along. It’s fun to play with these guys.”
  • Drew said Vladimir Radmanovich is the kind of knock-down shooter he was hoping to get. He said he noticed during extensive Synergy study that Radmanovich has a knack for quickly getting to open spots. Drew said Golden State coaches also gave Radmanovich positive reviews.
  • “He’s a four that can really stretch the defense,” Drew said. “I did a lot of homework on him. With Joe’s ability to force double teams, having that four that can go out there and stretch it, it gives you an added weapon. Tracy is a really good passer and you put him with the ball in position where he can operate, teams have to collapse their defenses on him [too]. With Radmanovic, he’s a guy that lives at the 3-point line.”
  • Kris Willlis at Peachtreehoops.com takes a closer look at the D-League guys in Hawks camp.

    • Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

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    254 comments Add your comment

    Guido

    December 10th, 2011
    10:50 pm

    I think the East is going to be interesting with Chicago/Miami favorites Hawks, Celts, Pacers are the teams to look out for.

    drmaryb.[*_*].

    December 10th, 2011
    10:51 pm

    Hmmmmm …

    Sekou reported last night on NBA TV that, Lamarcus Aldridge didn’t pass the team physical. Najeh do you see a trade there for Josh?

    Even though Josh reported for Hawks camp and participated?

    Did Portland hold Lamarcus out of camp to avert injury for that un-linked trade rumor posted earlier?

    kwooden

    December 10th, 2011
    10:51 pm

    Its pretty clear the HAWKS are done picking-up players because they’re not going into the Luxury Tax. Personally I’m waiting for a trade, but I don’t think any trade would help, accept for getting Dwight Howard. Looks like Dwight wants to go to NJ and not here so it appears to be a long shot that he’s in a HAWKS uniform this year. Overall your team is still a little small and lacks in-the-paint scorers. Miami, NY (now), Chicago and possibly the Celtics are all still better than them. Horford and Smoove are still the keys to this team taking it to the next level, so we’re going to have to wait and see if they have improved their games. Hopefully Horford’s turn around jumper is effective and Smoove can knock down his open shots. This team will look very different with Jeff as the full time PG, but it’s still not elite.

    GO HAWKS!

    Grandmaster Jeje

    December 10th, 2011
    10:52 pm

    “My preference would me Marvin, Zaza, and 2012-13 1st for Okafor”

    Not bad. Sounds about right – maybe too much. Would be nice to get Jarrett Jack if we trade Hinrich

    Grandmaster Jeje

    December 10th, 2011
    10:53 pm

    “I think the East is going to be interesting with Chicago/Miami favorites Hawks, Celts, Pacers are the teams to look out for.”

    Celtics will be incredibly soft this year without Perkins, no other center, and like 3 PFs, 2 of which won’t play defense.
    Pacers don’t have enough talent.

    We are nicely nestled in the 3 seed IMHO

    Grandmaster Jeje

    December 10th, 2011
    10:55 pm

    Why not try take advantage of New Orleans and try snatch away Okafor? Problem is that Houston is involved in the blockbuster trade so NOH would not be getting Gasol (they’d have Scola and Odom as 4s).

    But we should inquire about Okafor and see if they will take Smoove in case the deal falls apart.

    Horford and Okafor as your 4 and 5?

    drmaryb.[*_*].

    December 10th, 2011
    11:00 pm

    Resting on Laurels?

    “No one looks sloppy. I’d say Al is not in optimal condition, which he admits, ” – MC -
    ________________

    OK, got paid … disappeared in previous playoffs, (see marvin’s invisible cloak)) … showed up in less than optimal condition … Is AL Horford gonna’ be the weakest link?
    ______________

    JJM – where you at? Are you a punk? If you didn’t know – I fight dirty! Wassup bruh? Is that all you’re worth?

    bigdave

    December 10th, 2011
    11:01 pm

    Lamarcus is having issues with his Wolf Parkinson White syndrome..

    drmaryb.[*_*].

    December 10th, 2011
    11:03 pm

    Blog Question III

    Is Josh now deemed “un-coachable?”

    bigdave

    December 10th, 2011
    11:03 pm

    as if Tyson didnt already have his hands full..

    the knicks are after Jamal Crawford..

    gonna earn every penny of that new deal in..

    Astro Joe

    December 10th, 2011
    11:06 pm

    Maybe I’m too jaded and have come out on the other side of all of this, but I kind of like our roster and feel better about it this year than in the past several years. Bottom line, I think we have more players that can at least be average on both sides of the court. No, I’m not saying we’re about to “shock the world” but I am actually expecting more than the normal Hawks standard with this mix. Of course, that assumes a reasonable amount of health (and an adequate replacement for Hinrich)..

    I wonder if the NBA could shorten the usual FA signing period in the future. I’m sure that front offices around the league hate this frenetic pace, but I LOVE it. Maybe instead of the usual 6-8 weeks, they could have a 4 week signing period before camps open.

    Najeh Davenpoop

    December 10th, 2011
    11:08 pm

    “Of course, that assumes a reasonable amount of health (and an adequate replacement for Hinrich)..”

    At this point I am pretty sure you and LD are the only two people left on Earth who don’t think Teague is the answer at point guard.

    J.J.M.

    December 10th, 2011
    11:08 pm

    lol mom jokes and its almost 2012 c’mon son!

    Najeh Davenpoop

    December 10th, 2011
    11:10 pm

    Okafor is a good defensive player, but his contract is atrocious.

    J.J.M.

    December 10th, 2011
    11:10 pm

    I actually was getting laid while playing mw3 instead of using fairy tale drake lines…

    drmaryb.[*_*].

    December 10th, 2011
    11:11 pm

    The NBA Grave Pit!

    Aldridge will miss at least a week with Wolf-Parkinson-White syndrome, a heart …
    Blazers F LaMarcus Aldridge will be out of practice for the next week or two,
    following a … However, the most important issue is his health, first and foremost. …
    http://www.fantasysp.com/…/LaMarcus_Aldridge/…/aldridge-will-miss-at-least-a- week-with-wolf-parkinson-white – Similar pages
    ________________________

    Best Wishes to Lamarcus Aldridge, his health and his family.

    Word to the wise: Jamal Crawford – Run! Don’t go there, there must be something in the water. Remember Sam Bowie taken ahead of Michael Jordan and Gregg Oden taken ahead of Kevin Durant?

    Bad Luck City!

    Astro Joe

    December 10th, 2011
    11:11 pm

    Najeh, I don’t think any team should have Pape Sy backing up their lone PG for several months, and if you do, then you and Sund are the only ones living that fantasy.

    Casey

    December 10th, 2011
    11:12 pm

    Thanks for FINALLY printing full names!!!!

    bigdave

    December 10th, 2011
    11:13 pm

    Stro Joe..

    id like to feel the same but 2 things still worry me..

    tenacity on the glass..
    and the ability to get/create easy buckets out of the half court set..

    MattP

    December 10th, 2011
    11:15 pm

    Yes, Teague should be taking over PG right now. Should have started to work him in during the last season but LD is an idiot. Everytime LD gave Teague more minutes he did great. I think they should pick up this Donald Sloan guy and play him behind Teague.

    bigdave

    December 10th, 2011
    11:17 pm

    Warriors just inked DeAndre Jordan.. thats a good look for them..

    Astro Joe

    December 10th, 2011
    11:20 pm

    bigdave, I am fairly optimisitic that the players understand LD’s offense a little better and that LD hopefully will make some adjustments to his strategy that will make the half-court offense better. Honestly, if the offense is a problem (again), then LD doesn’t need to make it past the All-Star game. Kind of like a punter who can;t punt, if LD can’t get this squad to produce close to 100 points every game, then he is clearly the problem (in his second year with the sacred core running his scheme).

    UGA

    December 10th, 2011
    11:21 pm

    Seriously…………..get ready to sign Francisco Elson. Willie Green is a guy I would look at……

    Grandmaster JeJe

    December 10th, 2011
    11:24 pm

    How is Al the one guy on the team out of shape? I thought at times he was the only person on the team who cared.

    I guess when all you do is practice 15 foot jump shots that’s what u expect

    drmaryb.[*_*].

    December 10th, 2011
    11:28 pm

    WOW!

    Gee I pray Lamarcus Aldgridge is ok, if I were him I would retire and buy court side seats. I love this guy!
    _____________

    My 6′5″ brother has a similar defect and had a heart attack at age 23. He now has a pacemaker, he hails from NYC and played BB. My Mother (rip) died at age 42 when I was 21 for a 3M:1 heart defect. My maternal G-Mother. (rip) died young from weak heart muscles. I don’t need sympathy – Ever.

    Here’s my point: BB is just a silly game we enjoy, take care of your health Lamarcus.

    We should pray for the young man and hope he does what is best for himself and his family. BB is just not that important.
    _______________

    You guys should google his condition – it is very life threatening.

    Astro Joe

    December 10th, 2011
    11:29 pm

    Hawks are missing a big who can defend the pick and roll (Benson or Rolle?) and PG depth. I was thinking that a “big boy” like Pryzbilla, Diop or Fesenko with Collins back and seemingly fit, I think we need the kind of big man who can provide help defense against guys like B. Jennings, D. Rose, etc. I’m not sure if such a FA is out there, but that is the kind of big man depth we need (behind Horford who is an outstanding pick and roll help defender). Again, maybe one of these rail-thin and agile bigs in the camp can fill that gap.

    Grandmaster JeJe

    December 10th, 2011
    11:33 pm

    Just let Jamal walk. TMac+Vlad+kirk>>>>>>>Jamal

    bigdave

    December 10th, 2011
    11:34 pm

    sigh..

    i seriously doubt we have owners who care enough to fire a guy mid season.. but i agree.
    i just cant take the excessive (highly contested) jump shots…

    what optimism i do have stems from the physical abilities Jeff potentially brings.. the question is can he play the position from the neck up. im anxious to see if he takes command of this team, doesnt allow us to get into bad offense, and play the point guard position the way it should be played with this group.

    Grandmaster JeJe

    December 10th, 2011
    11:35 pm

    Drmaryb,

    Thanks for the info. My thoughts go out to Lamarcus, Oden, and definitely B.Roy. Feel terrible for Portland

    drmaryb.[*_*].

    December 10th, 2011
    11:36 pm

    Mamma Boy!

    “I actually was getting laid while playing mw3 instead of using fairy tale drake lines…” -JJM-
    ____________

    Great use of time, now go find yo mamma’s nipple and get some nutrition. You’re gonna’ need your strength to deal with me.

    Grandmaster JeJe

    December 10th, 2011
    11:37 pm

    LD AND SUND EXPIRE THIS YEAR.

    WE JUST MEED ASG TO SELL TEAM SOMEHOW SON.

    NEW COACH
    NEW GM

    LD IS COACHING FOR HIS LIFE. HE WILL NOT LAND ANOTHER HC GIG IN THE NBA

    Astro Joe

    December 10th, 2011
    11:39 pm

    bigdave, yeah, neck up if kind of important, huh? Especially at that position. And can he get up when matched up against the Wizards on a Tuesday night as opposed to the MVP in the playoffs? That is part of being a pro.

    Keep in mind that LD’s contract expires in about 7 months, so the owners may be willing to go with an interim coach since they won’t have to pay him past June anyway.

    Grandmaster JeJe

    December 10th, 2011
    11:40 pm

    Don’t disrespect drmaryb.

    Drmaryb worldwide Clyde rod from cp Najeh davenpoop northcyde big ray are the vets here and should not be messed with

    They are not the Grandmaster though.

    I am.

    Grandmaster JeJe

    December 10th, 2011
    11:41 pm

    Astro joe big Dave and other too

    Astro Joe

    December 10th, 2011
    11:42 pm

    Mary, you hold it down in here for the rest of the night. BTW, I’ve upgraded my 13″ B&W for one of those 25″ console TVs that weigh as much as Shaq these days. The color seems a little off. When did the Hawks switch to green unis?

    Night, all.

    drmaryb.[*_*].

    December 10th, 2011
    11:49 pm

    Fight Night!

    JJM is a coward, he’s just a set of initials (JJM) … He will soon find out – I can fill in the blanks!

    This guy is like a “deer in the headlights – he don’t even know he’s in danger!”
    _______________

    You certainly are The Grandmaster! Aye JJM … I’m sort of a bid deal … Uggh … I know people. LOL! I’m just getting into game shape.

    I LOVE you Grandmaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    bigdave

    December 10th, 2011
    11:51 pm

    i think he can and will.. he’s a competitor and loves to play ball..

    i guess im just hoping for a stronger voice. he can actually show that in his play, not deferring, feeding the hot hot hand/mismatch. i think thats one of the biggest problems with this team. we have talent.. starting 5, no question. mental toughness, not so much. i dont know if they really feel their good, at least not collectively. they might say it but.. you only hear Joe say, “we’re gonna role with what we got”, others pleading for help.

    i dont know if ive ever heard an all star as for help in his respective position. most guys have that, “ill do it myself” mentality.. “i’ll get it done, by any means”

    bigdave

    December 10th, 2011
    11:52 pm

    *ask

    Najeh Davenpoop

    December 10th, 2011
    11:53 pm

    The CP3 trade is dead. The Lakers pulled out.

    D_Cuse99

    December 10th, 2011
    11:53 pm

    Where the heck is David Lighty????

    Najeh Davenpoop

    December 10th, 2011
    11:56 pm

    Meanwhile, the Hawks are now talking sign and trade with the Knicks for Jamal.

    Time to start speculating on what Knicks players could help us. Off the top of my head, Landry Fields and Toney Douglas are the only realistic targets on that team that could help the Hawks.

    bigdave

    December 11th, 2011
    12:00 am

    John Hollinger:
    Calm down NYC. Any sign-and-trade for Crawford puts the Hawks in the luxury tax. Non-starter.

    he has a point.. if its gonna put us in the tax…. i seriously doubt it goes down. what pieces do they have anyway? unless they unloading Amare (rumored).. to get that financial wiggle room for CP3

    drmaryb.[*_*].

    December 11th, 2011
    12:00 am

    Breakfast Blundt!

    Astro Joe! I got this … I’m in full bytch mode.
    JJM picked the perfect storm – I’m PMS-ing. LOL!

    Hey – “it’s all fun and games – till, you get your eyes poked out!”

    bigdave

    December 11th, 2011
    12:03 am

    wow.. i guess we can expect litigation from the players union/or CP3

    Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

    December 11th, 2011
    12:06 am

    I thought we needed a center not a sharp shooter or backup point guard. Sund got his priorities messed up. Let Teague run the team and Sy back him up instead of wasting more money on a washed up veteran.

    *YAWN*

    drmaryb.[*_*].

    December 11th, 2011
    12:07 am

    Brutal!

    “lol mom jokes and its almost 2012 c’mon son!” -JJM-
    ___________

    I wasn’t joking. Yo mama is a bytch! and, 9 months later she had a litter – you were the “runt”

    drmaryb.[*_*].

    December 11th, 2011
    12:23 am

    Look It!

    Based on Najeh’s post, Looks like Jamal need the Hawks more than we need him. But, what Jamal fails to understand is that, the Hawks are making moves on the daily. And, ASKG is NOT going into the luxury tax – period.

    MC has clearly lamented for two days straight that the Hawks are capped out and taxed out. We have no room to take on additional salary – unless we can unload Marvin to New York.

    Here’s my point: who does NY have that we can get an upgrade on Marvin’s new back. He did fight that goon last season from their team. Perhaps, Marvin sealed his fate to NY that day. They may actually believe Marvin is a tough guy.

    What if, we send Jamal there and do a SNT to get Billups, with NY paying the difference on his amnesty number. Marvin. @ 7.25M and, Jamal (past salary. Was 10.8M) but, off the books should net Billups and we may have to pay a smidgent of luxury tax.

    However, we don’t get that Big this year and roll with Jason Collins and ZaZa.

    I’m good with that. We would finally have solved our PG issues since Mookie. Maybe get a dominant center next year, when Kirk comes off.

    Slimjr

    December 11th, 2011
    12:23 am

    “The most common understanding of Portland’s climate is grayness. Because the sunny weeks of August lack even the drama of lightning storms, it is the low winter sky that attracts notice – the gray blanket of drizzle, the short winter light. Clouds are great gray sponges wrung out against the wet slope of the Cascades. The winter weather can nourish deep depression. But the gray months can also be soothing, muffling, twilight weather, thinking weather”

    Question: Why do the TrailBlazer players go through so many incredible injuries over the years?

    Ans: Could it be a lack of sufficient annual SUN LIGHT? So the body is not generating enough of a critical vitamin called “D”? HHHMMMMMM?

    Lack of the D affects the Heart, Immune system. Skeleton structure et al…

    Dark skinned people should be taking at least 5000iu per day of D3 especially in the winter months..

    Light skinned people about 2000-3000iu per day..

    Somebody on that Portland staff should take a look and study the history of that organization and start connecting the dots based on nutrition to counter balance the environment these high functioning Athletes are dealing with? To many crazy injuries to call it a coincidence? Hugh?

    Michael Cunningham

    December 11th, 2011
    12:26 am

    blog updates

    O'Brien

    December 11th, 2011
    12:32 am

    Ant,

    When you get hired for a new job, and they offer you a contract, do you tell them you are willing to take less money so they can hire more people?

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