Atlanta Hawks: Camp Report Day 1

Notes and quotes from a real, live NBA camp . . .

  • Here is the full camp roster, minus Vladmir Radmanovic, who was signed tonight.
  • I guess he’s the 3-point shooter that both L.D. and Smoove said the Hawks need. “We need a for real, for real knock-down shooter,” Josh said. “I’m not asking for Kyle Korver, but a guy who can just spread the floor and just knock the shot down.”
  • Radmanovic, 31, is still a legit 3-point threat: He shot 43.1% (70/173) on 3s last season for GSW. He’ll be spotting up at the 3-point line: 54.4% of his FGA were 3s, and 74.5% of his total FGs were assisted. According to Synergy Sports Technology, 40.2% of Radmanovic’s offensive plays were spot-ups and his 1.08 points per possession on those plays ranked 70th in the league.
  • More positives: Radmanovic had an above-average assist rate last season. The Warriors allowed 3.42 points fewer per 100 possessions with Radmanovic on the floor, according to Basketballvalue.com. Some of that probably can be attributed to Golden State’s bench players playing better D than its starters, who play very little.
  • But Vladi had two good box score rates: blocked shots and steals, according to Hoopdata.com. His rebounding rate was poor for his size, though, and he had a high turnover rate.
  • If J.J.’s 3-point numbers get back to their career norms then the Hawks will have a couple shooters that defenders must respect. As long as Al, Smoove or T-Mac are on the floor they’ll also have some good rebounders to collect the misses.
  • Rick Sund drafted Radmanovic in Seattle with the No. 12 overall pick in the 2001 draft.
  • Dang, I got carried away. Sorry. Enough about Vladi.
  • The other day Al said he wanted to hear what plans the team had to improve. What did he find out? “I still don’t know,” he said. “I don’t know where we are at with that. I’ve been one of the main guys saying we need to bring back Jamal. I think we are supposed to get another big here and I am waiting to see who and what it’s going to be.”
  • Me, too. Every team always wants quality bigs, and there aren’t many of them. That means they don’t come cheaply, and if the Hawks really are going to round out their roster with budget buys, it’s going to be tough to find a good one in free agency. Trading Smoove or Al leaves a gaping hole on the front line, so that really wouldn’t make sense. And I don’t see Marvinor an injured Hinrich getting the Hawks back a starting-caliber center.
  • Twin should be at practice Saturday morning. “I saw him earlier this summer and he’s in even better shape now,” Al said. “I’m excited for him to be back here.”
  • It’s interesting that Al, Josh and J.J. all pretty strongly stated what the Hawks need. As Joe put it: “What we’ve got now is solid” but they need more.
  • “More than anything, some help down low,” Joe said. “Guys to help out Josh and Al and Zaza, whether it’s a banger or a long athletic guy who can come in and give those guys a breather.”
  • Al said the Hawks especially need quality players on the bench to deal with the frantic schedule: “The way to do it is, it has to be with depth. We have to have a lot of guys playing. There are a lot of games coming at you fast.”
  • The Hawks need another point guard. Right now, L.D. said Pape Sy is running No. 2 and T-Mac will play some point forward. He said he likes undrafted rookie Donald Sloan. “We are kind of feeling our way,” L.D. said. “We will wait and see what we hear and see if anything falls through the cracks [in free agency].”
  • L.D. said there’s still a chance the Hawks will re-sign Jamal: “Absolutely. It has not been totally ruled out. Until they come to me and say, ‘We absolutely, positively won’t be able to bring him back,’ then I will have to live with that. But I don’t think that’s the case at this point. I still think there is hope.”
  • It sounds like the budget squeeze has started.
  • Hinrich said he injured his shoulder a few years back. It recently developed a cyst which started to rub against a nerve, so he had the surgery.
  • Josh on the reasoning behind slimming down to his rookie weight: “I played multiple positions last year. Playing the four for three years I had to play with a certain amount of weight to withstand that contact and playing those guys down low and matching their physicality. If I’m going to be a more versatile player this year and be more mobile and get around those screens, then I need to get back to the weight I was accustomed to playing with when I first got in league.”
  • “He really came in and impressed everybody,” Al said of Smoove. “You can see it out there. He looks a lot leaner. He’s running better.”
  • Some of my blog people always ask why I don’t report about what Josh worked on in the offseason. Well, here’s the way he usually answers: “I always work on my game. So it was nothing specific. I concentrated on every aspect.”
  • Josh on his mindset considering the trade speculation: “I’m here and I’m ready to play. I’m excited the lockout is over with and I’m ready to be a part of this ball club. I want to get things accomplished this year more than we ever have. I think we have the team to do it with a little bit more added pieces. I just want us to know we are able to play with any team on the court. We have to know it and believe it and we can do it at all times.”
  • T-Mac said he picked the Hawks because of their potential: “I look forward to playing with all these guys. I know how hard they worked and what they’ve accomplished over the years.”
  • L.D. said T-Mac “is going to want to be out there all the time” but he will be careful about not wearing him down. “That’s how I plan on using him is getting him in his sweet spot and let him make plays. He still has the ability to do that. ”
  • L.D. on T-Mac vs. Jamal: “He and Jamal bring two totally different elements to table. Jamal is a gunner. He’s a guy that can put points on the board in a hurry. That’s who he is. Tracy can still score the ball. He’s a really good passer. So it’s going to be interesting to see how the guys play off of him.”
  • Stack is in camp. “He’s an old pro,” Drew said. “He is a guy that he knows how to play his position. He really looks good like he’s in shape. He’s moving real well. He brings veteran leadership to the ball club. I am really going to give him a very close look. I had him before in Detroit. If you put a guy like him in the mix with what we have, it could be a good mix.”
  • L.D. has to balance the need to get his team in shape during a short camp against the reality of the brutal schedule that awaits: “You want the guys to be in shape you just have to be careful how you go about doing it. I am going to have to gradually get them into shape and hopefully by Dec. 27 everybody will be ready to go.”
  • L.D. on Teague: “I am really excited for Jeff. I really think this kid is going to build off what he did last year in playoffs.”
  • There were a lot of jokes about Marvin standing upright. “I haven’t felt this good in a long time,” he said.
  • L.D. said he’d still like to have Damien back but sounds as if Damien has other plans.
  • Kito signed his deal.
  • L.D. on the games against Miami and Chicago early in the season: “That’s a great test. I told the guys that is the perfect time to play teams like that is at the beginning. Teams are still trying to find their way. New players, new faces, new systems, that type thing. It will give us some indication where we are as a team. I think that will set the tone for the rest of the season.”
  • “I just hope these guys are ready to accept the challenge that lies ahead,” Drew said. “I think we crossed a big hurdle last year when we beat Orlando, but I think we got a little satisfied after that series and going into the Chicago series and lost some of the hunger. We beat Orlando, now let’s cross that hurdle of some of those teams that finished higher than us. It’s a challenge and I just hope our guys will stand up to it.”
  • Man, I’m sleepy. Check in with you in the morning, blog people.

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

259 comments Add your comment

SteveW

December 10th, 2011
12:26 am

Maybe

December 10th, 2011
12:27 am

Just wanna say that Radmonovic was probably one of Sunds best Draft Picks…..and he’s better than Marvin .

That is all.

Slimjr

December 10th, 2011
12:27 am

SteveW

December 10th, 2011
12:28 am

As I was saying on the other blog – Poindexter is a good evaluator of talent. Sund did abysmal at Seattle, but his assistant here seems really good to me.

Slimjr

December 10th, 2011
12:29 am

This guy can knock em down! Great pick up Sund!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bigdave

December 10th, 2011
12:29 am

Bibby to New York..

STRETCH

December 10th, 2011
12:31 am

Rad is better than Marvin for sure!

Spyro

December 10th, 2011
12:31 am

Why do the Knicks hate defense so much? Signing Bibby? Really?

SteveW

December 10th, 2011
12:31 am

LD – “L.D. on Teague: “I am really excited for Jeff. I really think this kid is going to build off what he did last year in playoffs.”

Translation – “I hate Jeff Teague with every fiber of my being for no explicable reason. I will do everything in my power to destroy him. Even if it costs me my job. Think your a PG punk? I was a PG, and you can’t touch my shoelaces. I hate you Jeff Teague, and am willing to destroy this franchise to show you.”

We have to remember how to speak Larryese from last year.

Slimjr

December 10th, 2011
12:32 am

Knicks got Bibby? Well at least Tyson will be there to help Bibby out! lol

Go Knicks!

Mt

December 10th, 2011
12:32 am

Nice update thanks

Slimjr

December 10th, 2011
12:33 am

Teague to Rad for 33333333333333333333333333333333! bang!

pcnitai

December 10th, 2011
12:34 am

Dalembert is a quality big still available but I don’t know if we can afford him.

JSS

December 10th, 2011
12:35 am

Interesting and strangely disheartening at the same time… When you wake up, did you mean “interested” instead of “interesting.” Are we getting the fan blog back before the season starts?

Melvin

December 10th, 2011
12:35 am

Hopefully TMac and Stack can provide some leadership to the locker room. One way to determine if this team has grown is to see less blowout loses this season.

SteveW

December 10th, 2011
12:36 am

Larry was willing to experience historic 30 and 40+ point losses to show his disdain for Teague, all the while in “believing in the kid” and “never giving up on him”. Weird. To each his own I guess.

Woody

December 10th, 2011
12:38 am

Maybe

December 10th, 2011
12:38 am

Bibby to the Knicks??? They’re gonna have to carry him outta the arena on a stretcher after every game if he has to run that 7-seconds or less offense LOL!!

….and Bibby shoots poorly when he’ really gassed #BrickHouse

bigdave

December 10th, 2011
12:41 am

more than likely Douglas starts.. no way Bibby can play at that tempo..

hope Chandler is up to the task.. a lot of score 1st guys on that squad. word is he is the guy who can come in an change the culture defensively. i mean.. Mavs had firepower forever, but actually had toughness and d w/ him..

not to mention.. you know who’s the defensive coordinator up there.. yep.. you guessed it

SteveW

December 10th, 2011
12:41 am

Larry almost singlehandidly took us to lottery land – Since he wouldn’t play Teague, we had to trade Mo’, Bibby, JC2, and the #18 pick for an aging, injury prove Kirk Hinrich just so we would possibly stop suffering historic beatdowns on a regular basis.

I wonder who LD will get in here to start in place of Teague, since he believes in him, and has never given up on him?

And since ZaZa dare say a word to LD about his hypocrisy about taking bad shots during a game, LD almost cost us ZaZa for the injured Brad Miller, who’s basically gone now. We would have been toast in the playoffs in some games, esp. Chitown, if not for ZaZa.

I need to talk to my therapist about this…Just joking!!

Slimjr

December 10th, 2011
12:42 am

“….and Bibby shoots poorly when he’ really gassed #BrickHouse”

Aint that some truth………

YO YO YO

December 10th, 2011
12:43 am

Prime Bill Russell could guard the paint with Carmelo, Amare and Bibby out there. Tyson Chandler is about to earn every penny of that contract… lol

Slimjr

December 10th, 2011
12:43 am

Good Job Sund, signing Stackhouse!!!!! Good job!

SteveW

December 10th, 2011
12:43 am

I think Sund deliberately keeps PG’s out of camp, to try and force LD to play Jeff.

Slimjr

December 10th, 2011
12:44 am

Tyson will become known as plastic man in New York, guarding 5 guys!

Slimjr

December 10th, 2011
12:47 am

One more solid Big and this team is set to challenge for the 2012 ECF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jody

December 10th, 2011
12:48 am

@MC,

Thanks for the update. I guess it is safe to assume that the Hawks are still intent on playing undersized and slowly running Smoove and Horford into the ground again this year by doing so. Also, do you think T-Mac has a legitimate shot at a starting spot? Even at 32, he still has WAY more skill and talent than any other 3 on this roster.

show me

December 10th, 2011
12:49 am

If all of these guys want to get someone in camp, maybe they each need to restructure there deals so that the club can free up some money. Horford is saying “we need a big”, but you don’t hear “I would restructure me deal to free up some cash for us to do that.”

superiorblogman

December 10th, 2011
12:52 am

Oh well, as some have pointed out Dalembert is still out there, but with them giving Marcus Thorton 5 years 40 mill, Dalembert is probably asking for $10 million per, he is not worth that at all, but I would unload Marvin and Zaza for Daly any day. Realistically, don’t see it happening. Our only hope is that we can get Asik for Jamal in a sign and trade and with all the guys getting cut and amnestied I just don’t know. Lastly, if Golden State signs De-Andre Jordan they may amnesty Biedrins but once again we are over the cap and would not be able to do anything.

Conclusion we need to trade Kirk now and send Marvin or Zaza with him to get that big.

BoneKollector

December 10th, 2011
12:54 am

lmao @ Larrynese

superiorblogman

December 10th, 2011
12:56 am

show me

December 10th, 2011
12:49 am

If all of these guys want to get someone in camp, maybe they each need to restructure there deals so that the club can free up some money. Horford is saying “we need a big”, but you don’t hear “I would restructure me deal to free up some cash for us to do that.”

No, maybe we should have kept Jordan Crawford and used our 1st round pick this year on some players that actually could have helped in trades as being cheap pieces. This is all your fault Sund don’t come on here now trying to talk about players restructuring contracts. Maybe you should have never signed Bibby to the length you did, maybe you should have never signed Zaza to the length you did. Certainly, you should have never resigned Marvin at all. Certainly, you should not have signed Joe to a max contract. All your fault Sund don’t come here with that mess. You gave the contracts.

Slimjr

December 10th, 2011
12:58 am

Dayum! Jada bout to take half of Will Smiths 550 million stack!!!!!!

myrak43

December 10th, 2011
12:58 am

I have a feeling, know that GSW has DeAndre Jordan: they may use the amnesty clause on Biedrins. if this happens we could sign him for about half the MLE because he would still be getting paid by GSW. Could the Hawks be waiting on this to happen? I did predict T-mac.

Najeh Davenpoop

December 10th, 2011
1:01 am

“Translation – “I hate Jeff Teague with every fiber of my being for no explicable reason. I will do everything in my power to destroy him. Even if it costs me my job. Think your a PG punk? I was a PG, and you can’t touch my shoelaces. I hate you Jeff Teague, and am willing to destroy this franchise to show you.””

LMAO Ain’t that the truth.

The good news is with Kirk’s injury it is pretty much physically impossible for LD to not play Teague, at least in the early going, unless he pulls some crazy sh-t like starting T-Mac at point guard.

Slimjr

December 10th, 2011
1:02 am

Biedrins! Go get him Sund asap!

Born: Apr 2, 1986
Height: 7-0 / 2.13
Weight: 240 lbs. / 108.9 kg.
From: Riga, Latvia
Years Pro: 7

Avg. 1 block per game….

superiorblogman

December 10th, 2011
1:02 am

Sorry big men that are free agents that no-one are talking about like Spencer Hawes are not welcome

Slimjr

December 10th, 2011
1:04 am

We are ONE BIG AWAY for an ECF challenge for real! So Close!

superiorblogman

December 10th, 2011
1:05 am

myrak43

December 10th, 2011
12:58 am

I have a feeling, know that GSW has DeAndre Jordan: they may use the amnesty clause on Biedrins. if this happens we could sign him for about half the MLE because he would still be getting paid by GSW. Could the Hawks be waiting on this to happen? I did predict T-mac.

Once again, we can’t pick anyone up after they are a amnesty victim unless they clear waivers. Clearing waivers would mean that all teams under the salary cap of $58 mill would have to pass on that player and not make a bid at all. Then he would be free to sign with whomever he chooses. We are not getting anyone from amnesty. Understand? Learn the rules quit living in fantasyland

Sautee

December 10th, 2011
1:10 am

“The other day Al said he was interesting in hearing what plans the team had to improve. What did he find out? “I still don’t know,” he said. “I don’t know where we are at with that. I’ve been one of the main guys saying we need to bring back Jamal. I think we are supposed to get another big here and I am waiting to see who and what it’s going to be.” ”

Obviously vava will say that Al is showing his softness, and Big Dog will say he’s demanding to play the 4. ;-)

Grandad

December 10th, 2011
1:11 am

SteveW

“As I was saying on the other blog –
Poindexter is a good evaluator of talent”

Who is Poindexter ?

superiorblogman

December 10th, 2011
1:23 am

Owners and GM are garbage. Expect to wake up in the morning to Hawks sign Kwame Brown and talks of him being the big man they need.

Joke of a Organization.

See ya 2morrow.

Greg

December 10th, 2011
1:35 am

myrak, by my own estimate, a given fan is only permitted one correct prediction for their team every 7-8 years… since you just got yours, I’m guessing Biedrins is a no. ;)

Ra'mon

December 10th, 2011
1:41 am

Superior, say what you want but I will welcome Kwame now. He’s better than Powell and Joe Smith combined.

tyger

December 10th, 2011
2:04 am

KENYON MARTIN!!!

superiorblogman

December 10th, 2011
2:17 am

Ra’mon

December 10th, 2011
1:41 am

Superior, say what you want but I will welcome Kwame now. He’s better than Powell and Joe Smith combined.

Kwame and Marvin are two of the biggest if not the two biggest bust in the last 15 years. Anyone calling for them on the same team and being satisfied needs to just come to grips with the fact that there takes little more than being alive to satisfy them.

superiorblogman

December 10th, 2011
2:20 am

tyger

December 10th, 2011
2:04 am

KENYON MARTIN!!!

Kenyon Martin is overseas in China in a contract that he can not get out of, just like JR Smith, Wilson Chandler, etc.

You people are some of the most uninformed people going. That’s why you except anything with these sorry team.

Good night. Maybe when I wake you people will have posted better comments so that I don’t have to correct you

JaeEvolution

December 10th, 2011
2:59 am

We should be talking to Phoenix about possibly getting Gortat out of there. Playing backup to Dwight did this guy NO justice on how good he is. 7 ft average athlete, smart player, GOOD rebounder, tough defender, goofy guy good locker room presence. I know his numbers are inflated under Nashy but give this guy starter minutes he will produce VERY good numbers.

We would probably have to go into luxury tax to get him though even with a S & T with Jamal…but man that guy is everything we want in a Center.

Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut

December 10th, 2011
3:29 am

Joke of an Organization.

Lol bringing Radmanovic’s assist rate up.

9.7 AST% 13.1 TOV% 105 Offensive Rating vs 107 Defensive rating.

I get all the Los Angeles Lakers broadcasts. Feel sorry for anyone who pays to watch this idiot play.
He’s a tweener in the worst way. Got injured skiing during the Lakers Season and lied about it.
Space Cadet on defense.

10% rebound rate.

Leuer was rated #14 on Hollinger.

Wonder how many “experts” would take Al Horford and Vladimir Radmonovic over Andrew Bogut, Josh Smith, and Jon Leuer.

We had a chance to compete and make our own superteam with offense and defense balance and depth.

But now its just another year of us having to sign garbage because Horford was supposedly supposed to turn into Amare Stoudemire.

The funny thing about keeping Josh Smith is that if you put Smith at the SF and Amare at the PF on the same team it probably wouldn’t work because they’re both inside players.

The Hawks are stupid because they never explored Josh Smith at the SF in trade scenarios, Only Horford, at the PF. All because he got a few stupid coaches awards.

Now we’re stuck with no solutions.. 31 year old Radmanovic? Josh Smith is still the sole rim protector. Dont make me laugh.

7′0 Jon Leuer could have been 7′0 Tom Gugliotta/Rasheed Wallace here.
What assets do we have to bring him into camp???

Then focus on moving Horford for a defensive center

northcyde

December 10th, 2011
4:25 am

LOL @ Radmanovic being better than Marvin. In what universe?

The ONLY thing that Rad does better than Marvin, is shoot spot up threes. It’s not like this dude is going to be playing during crunch time. And with him being mainly a PF, how does acquiring him free up Horford to play more PF?

I saw Joe.Jeff’s post in the last blog, quoting Pat Summitt . . . . “Offense sells TICKETS . . Defense wins GAMES . . Rebounding wins CHAMPIONSHIPS”.

That has been my sig on Hawksquawk for the last 4 years.

And she’s right. Every one of Pat’s championship caliber teams were absolute DEMONS on the boards, especially the offensive boards.

You’re seeing a flaw in Larry Drew, thinking that we need more “knock down shooters”. We didn’t lose games last year because we didn’t have better shooters. We lost games last year because we got DOMINATED ON THE BOARDS.

We were 28th in rebounding last year. 29th in offensive rebounding.

That’s a DIRECT correlation to our “big” guys being away from the rim to get 2nd chance points off of misses. Because of their flat out refusal to bang on the boards, and Drew’s offense taking them out of the paint, we’re usually a “one and done” team in the halfcourt set.

If Horford is going to try to be Amare Stoudemire . . and Smith is going to try to be Rashard Lewis . . who the (( BLEEP )) is going to rebound for this team, especially on the offensive boards?

Here’s a scary stat . . . on a Per 36 minute basis last year, Josh Powell was a better offensive rebounder than BOTH Al Horford and Josh Smith.

Rick Sund has always been a guy that as assembled offense first type teams, while not having an eye for good defensive players. So it’s no coincidence to see the type of players he’s brought in here.

JJ says that we need a banger. Well unfortunately Mr. Johnson, you can’t get a quality banger if you’re shopping at the Dollar Tree. So YOU and your boys are going to have to bang, and stop being so damn soft.

Maybe Marvin will be “the banger”, seeing that he can walk upright now. Somebody is going to have to do it, because unlike Memphis rapper Don Trip’s CD, “Help Is On The Way” . . . Help is NOT on the way in the form of a banger.

northcyde

December 10th, 2011
4:38 am

I see Earl Watson got a 2 year – 4.6 million deal from Utah

“WOOOOOOO . . . too rich for our blood”, said the ASG.

Hawks roster/depth chart

PG – Teague / Hinrich / Sy

G – Johnson / Stackhouse

F – Marvin / McGrady

PF – Smith / Radmanovic / Benson

C – Horford / Zaza / Collins

Street clothes: Rolle

There’s your Atlanta Hawks folks . . . time to accept that. And time for our star players to accept that as well. If our three free agent moves are T-Mac, Radmanovic, and Collins . . with Stackhouse possibly being our 4th, there is no “banger” coming here unless Benson turns out to be the banger.

So our “Medium 3″ simply needs to play better. You have no choice in the matter. If you do, this team will threaten for a top 3 seed. If you don’t, we may not make the playoffs. So quit wishing for isht that isn’t coming. Just play TOUGHER.