Atlanta Hawks: Capped out, left out
It’s the kind of questions I get often on Twitter: “Why don’t the Hawks pursue [insert big-name free agent]?” After I explain that they don’t have the cap space, I sometimes get the follow-up: Why don’t they trade [Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, some other player I don't like] and use that cap space?” And then I have to tell them that doesn’t work, either, because the Hawks are over the cap and have to take salary back in a trade.
The point here is, until the Hawks gain significant cap space, which they aren’t scheduled to do until 2013-14 unless the use the amnesty card, then they aren’t going to be involved with free agents who command more than the MLE. Shoot, they still may not be involved with MLE free agents until they retreat further from the luxury-tax line.
Sure, the Hawks can swing sign-and-trades (which usually is the next question I get after the two above) but those transactions are not easy. The player has to want to sign with the Hawks and then an acceptable deal has to be worked out between Atlanta and the trading partner. That’s a lot of “ifs” involved.
The Hawks made their big when they re-signed J.J. last summer. They had the choice of using him in a sign-and-trade and then making other moves to clear cap space and make a run at the big names everyone buzzes about. Rick Sund, an enthusiastic supporter of re-signing J.J., nonetheless did his due diligence and presented that option to ASG.
All parties decided to bring back J.J. at any cost. So, for now, they must hope that this group’s upper limit is not a six-game loss in the Eastern Conference semifinals.
The reason why a lack of cap flexibility is particularly problematic under the new CBA is explained by Mark Cuban in an email to Tim McMahon of ESPNDallas:
The reality is that in the new system, cap room will have far more value than it had in the past. I realize that everyone is all freaked out about how and where free agents and future free agents are going, but it’s not just about getting one guy.
We are not saving cap room in hope of that one super special free agent being there. It’s about being in the position to improve every year and possibly add some significant, younger players next year and in future years.
What I don’t think people understand is that once a team hits the tax level the ability to improve our team is reduced dramatically. In addition, your ability to make trades is reduced. So basically, if we made the move to keep everyone together with five-year deals, the team we have today is going to be the team we have for the next five years. If we were a young team it would be one thing. But we are not a young team.
The Hawks are not as old as the Mavs but neither do they have anything close to an MVP candidate or a ring. Perhaps that changes this season, or maybe it doesn’t happen until they gain some cap space and start over.
Etc.
- I think the Hawks will make an offer to Jamal. I don’t think it will match what he can get on the market.
- Both Jody Genessy of the Deseret News and Brian T. Smith at the Salt Lake Tribune report that Earl Watson still could re-sign with the Jazz even after they signed Jamaal Tinsley. Watson would be a good pickup for the Hawks because he has good size, is a very good defender and rebounder and has a good assist rate. He also has a high turnover rate and can’t shoot or score but, hey, there are reasons he might be had for the minimum.
- Update ProBasketballTalk says Watson is expected to sign with the Wizards. (H/T to blog commenter mountain_jim)
- Chris Tomasson tweets that power forward prospect Charles Garcia will be at camp with the Hawks. Here is his D-League profile and his DraftExpress.com file.
- Larry Coon and Marc Stein look at the so-called “B list” items that are part of the new CBA.
- You might have heard the league blocked a trade. The teams involved are appealing, according to Stein.
- The Hawks practice at 5 p.m. today. Us media types don’t get in until after 6. Follow me on Twitter for live updates and check back here later tonight for a blog post.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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469 comments Add your comment
bigdave
December 9th, 2011
9:35 pm
superior..
lol.. yep
bigdave
December 9th, 2011
9:38 pm
we’d be aight if we played with more of an edge..
but you know you in trouble when your big guys, who supposed to be your dogs, asking for help..
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
9:39 pm
Korver
Did Josh say Korvers name in that quote?…
The Real Mandingo
December 9th, 2011
9:40 pm
Al Horford, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Larry Drew, Vince Cellini and, probably even, Dominique Wilkens are hoping, wishing, praying and secretly lobbying that Rick Sund and the ASG re-sign Jamal Crawford. You can just feel it in their communcation, discussions and vocabulary regarding the Hawks’ free agency moves and options. They know the value of Jamal Crawford’s offensive and scoring ability off the bench.
Message to Hawks’ Management: Re-sign Jamal Crawford or you will be sorry you didn’t.
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
9:40 pm
Using the Childress exception on Turiaf would be nice. Legit rebounder AND rim defender who doesn;t try to shoot jumpers (like Josh Powell).
Meanwhile, Ric Bucher of ESPN says the Knicks are trying to trade Ronny Turiaf and $3 million to clear more cap room.
Ryan
December 9th, 2011
9:42 pm
I’d like Turiaf as the back up big man.
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
9:51 pm
Enter your comments here
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
9:51 pm
Resigning Jamal means we give up more points and score more points per game. It also means we pay someone to not show up many games.
WE NEED BIG BODIES.
WE NEED BIG BODIES.
WE NEED BIG BODIES.
WE NEED BIG BODIES.
WE NEED BIG BODIES.
Melvin
December 9th, 2011
9:54 pm
Guards – Jamal Crawford, Delonte West, Michael Redd
Bigs- Yi Jianlian, Troy Murphy, Carl Landry, Reggie Evans Kwame Brown or Joel Przybilla
Pick one from each group and lets go….
Hawks Basketball...
December 9th, 2011
9:55 pm
just settle for a BIG popcorn, with butter.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
9:56 pm
LOL @ DrMaryB.
LOL Chinese Buffet. Damn!
package Smoove + Hinrich for best big available. Does ANYONE in this league want to give up a rough 6″11 player for some cap relief?
Wow if we had DeAndre Jordan at the 5 we’d be so F’ing set right now. Northcyde, what you think about DJ? No way we get him of course.
HoRFORD TOUGHEN UP
Melvin
December 9th, 2011
9:58 pm
Craig Sager wardrobe is in season form. My gosh that coat and tie is ugly….
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
9:58 pm
Melvin,
I’d take Delonte and Reggie in heartbeat. I think Pryz is taking year off and no way I’d come close to touching Michael Redd at this point- no homo
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
9:59 pm
http://projects.ajc.com/gallery/view/sports/hawks/hawks-camp-120911/
Joe really looks noticeably smaller.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 9th, 2011
10:01 pm
Wedgie Evans would be a great pickup for this team.
brigadierjerry
December 9th, 2011
10:02 pm
Wabe
December 9th, 2011
8:41 pm
It is about markets…
Dude, teams in big markets can go minus a draft because they can land premier talent in FA.
Teams like the Blazers, OKC, and Memphis drafted well. FA’s wouldn’t be lining up to play there.
The Hawks are the Hawks because:
a – they can’t draft
b – they can’t court big name FA’s
Thus, we’re screwed. But, markets are big. Bigger market teams don’t have to hit on every one of their draft picks to be successful. They can bring in talent through free agency. Look at the Lakers roster.
I agree with this. As others have stated the Hawks are not a small market team but they treat the team like they are management that is. To be good especially in the NBA, you have to take some chances and pay into the luxury tax. Atlanta is a big market and a good location. I never get the impression that the Hawks are marketed correctly. There are many fans but you wouldnt know it in regards to the media. It is as if they are an afterthought.
Look at Boston. This is probably their last run with that group but they are making moves. Got rid of Glen Davis RIvers didnt think he was working hard enough for Brandon Bass. They resigned Jeff Green and just signed Chris Wilcox. Next year they will have a lot of cap space and even if Howard or Deron wont be available for them, they will still be in good shape
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
10:05 pm
X-Factor this year: Horford’s Game! Especially on Defense..(Show up like All NBA Al can)….
Grady competing for 6th man award!
Must mention 6′9.5″ (he’s standing up straight now) Marvin Williams from N. Carolina!
C’mon Marvin make us Proud to be Hawks fans…..
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
10:10 pm
DeAndre Jordan is the real deal Holyfield! Think of Josh on Defense but bigger! A RIM PROTECTOR!
ECF contenders if the Hawks could pull it off and get him…We can dream cant we?
FreshFromATL
December 9th, 2011
10:10 pm
For anyone wondering about Collins current condition…
From MC’s Twitter:
Al Horford saw Jason Collins recently and said “he’s in even better shape” than last season.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
10:11 pm
Sad thing is there really are no big men available out there.
Back in 90s RIck Smits was like the 8th or 9th best Center. Today he would be top 3.
I wish ZaZa was more talented so he could play more minutes and maybe start.
*Yawn*
bigdave
December 9th, 2011
10:14 pm
this is just getting funny…
Al Horford: “I think we are supposed to get another big here and I am waiting to see who and what it’s going to be.”
bigdave
December 9th, 2011
10:14 pm
who and what?
brigadierjerry
December 9th, 2011
10:15 pm
The Hawks remind me of the Blazers somewhat minus the injuries the Blazers have had. Underrated player is Lamarcus Aldridge I actually like his game better than Horford.
Sad to see B ROy retired was a very good player was a cereberal type player. Reminded me of Clyde Frazier. Also Greg Oden with another setback. I think Oden not built for the rigors of the NBA as far as his body is concerned
Melvin
December 9th, 2011
10:15 pm
Ok AL, you made your point. Anymore public pleas to sign another big and I may start calling you a Cry baby…
Al Horford: “I think we are supposed to get another big here and I am waiting to see who and what it’s going to be.”
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
10:15 pm
If any TWO (2) of the SIX (6) below happens we will be in very very good shape this year:
1) Horford plays defense
2) Smoove ATTACKs the basket and does NOT take one jumpshot
3) Marvin averages about 14 a game, fights for rebounds, and DOESN’T get hurt
4) ZaZa stays physical and stops these MJ fadeaway moves to try draw And-1s
5) T-Mac gets featured in our 2nd unit
6) Joe stays healthy
bigdave
December 9th, 2011
10:15 pm
how does Al know..?
Ryan
December 9th, 2011
10:15 pm
Maybe Al knows something we dont know…..I doubt it…but maybe
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
10:16 pm
Marvin rolling with the Jay-Z Fro
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
10:17 pm
From Picture 10 of the gallery link:
“Josh Smith shoots the ball as workouts commence.”
WTF
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
10:19 pm
Mr. Big Shot!
Why can’t we waive Marvin and amnesty Kirk for Billups?
That’s 15.5M right there and Billups would draw a nice crowd at the Arena.
I would buy season tickets to see Mr. Big Shot right away, even if he take turns starting with Teague in those 4 games in 5 days.
Wouldn’t that keep the “8″ out of the luxury tax?
We need some All Stars man.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
10:21 pm
“Mr. Big Shot!
Why can’t we waive Marvin and amnesty Kirk for Billups?
That’s 15.5M right there and Billups would draw a nice crowd at the Arena.
I would buy season tickets to see Mr. Big Shot right away, even if he take turns starting with Teague in those 4 games in 5 days.
Wouldn’t that keep the “8″ out of the luxury tax?
We need some All Stars man.”
Since the NBA owns the Hornets, I assume the Hawks pay 1/30th of the Hornets payroll? The BASG probably does not want to pay someone to not be here.
I’d give Marvin a shot. He seems upbeat. I just wonder when we will ever use Collins, especially if Dwight is traded to a non-divisional team.
MC, I look forward to your update on T-Mac; I assume he and Joe are good buds. Thanks for all the Twitter updates
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
10:22 pm
Marvin’s is on a mission to show everybody why he was drafted #2 in his draft class.. He’s never lived up to the pick!
He’s going to have a solid year! 12-16 per night!! Go Hawks………………
Ken Strickland
December 9th, 2011
10:30 pm
TMcGrady will replace Damien Wilkins, and JTeague will replace Bibby as our starting PG. Rookie Benson will replace EThomas, and Rolle will replace JPowell. Teague as our starting PG is a vast improvement over Bibby in every way, except 3pt shooting. TMcGrady will get more mins, and is an improvement in almost every area except for Damien having a slight edge on DEF.
Rolle is taller and bigger than Powell, and should offer just as much production and versatility, if not more. We made it to last yrs semifinals with a team that wasn’t as versatile, talented, quick, fast, or as athletic as this team will be. And, they managed to accomplish that feat while adjusting to a new HC, and had to learn new OFF/DEF systems.
Exactly what have all of the other Eastern Conference teams done to improve themselves to the point where someone would foolishly claim the Hawks would hit the skids? With Teague as our starting PG and playing consistent mins, we’ve definitely improved our starting lineup. The addition of TMac gives us more versatility off our bench.
Benson and Rolle definitely add more size(height), youth, speed, quickness, versatility, and athleticism to our bench. They should also give us more rebounding and interior DEF than we got from Powell and Thomas. Add a shooter, and a short team fill in at PG until Hinrich returns, and we’re in business.
superiorblogman
December 9th, 2011
10:31 pm
Al Horford: “I think we are supposed to get another big here and I am waiting to see who and what it’s going to be.”
I knew there was a reason Al is my favorite. Don’t shut up Al and if its some dud we get in here, when asked still state the truth, We still need big man help. Al’s my favorite. Joe, Josh, and Teague please express your true opinion, we need a C.
Mac-Town #maconchevyrider
December 9th, 2011
10:33 pm
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/09/22/00/slideshow_1002298327_8.jpg
Thought that was your boy Deshawn Stevenson standing by Joe for a min…
Wabe
December 9th, 2011
10:35 pm
Ken Strickland,
The real question is…
What exactly have the Hawks done that propels them above anybody else in the East? The Bulls are in the process of acquiring a 2-gaurd. The Heat have a healthy Haslem back and have signed Shane Battier. The C’s aren’t making a splash, but aren’t sitting idle like the Hawks seem to be.
And by the way, we have lost Jamal. In your synopsis, you said T-Mac replaces Damien. Teague replaces Bibby. Whose replacing Jamal? Kirk Hinrich?
Truth is, this team is set to be exactly as its been for the past 2-3 years. Slightly above average, and enough for ASG.
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
10:36 pm
The Hawks are going to surprise many! Stay tuned!
brigadierjerry
December 9th, 2011
10:40 pm
To get Billups Hawks would have to be under the cap and Billups stated that he would retire if he is picked up by an undesireable team
superiorblogman
December 9th, 2011
10:42 pm
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
10:36 pm
The Hawks are going to surprise many! Stay tuned!
It is one thing to be optimistic and something else to just be silly Slim. This team has no depth and no legit starting C or SF as currently constructed. You can scream go Hawks and this team will surprise all you wish but no-one believes it and they shouldn’t. It would be silly to believe
Najeh Davenpoop
December 9th, 2011
10:43 pm
David West to the Celtics.
Ryan
December 9th, 2011
10:43 pm
Hawks could do worse than Marvin at SF. And to everyone who wants him to be Lebron….He is what he is supposed to be, the 5th option on the floor. Its not great for the high draft pick that we picked him with, but he does not play that badly.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 9th, 2011
10:44 pm
And Vladimir Radmanovic to the Hawks. I wonder how long it will take Sund to track down Robert Swift while he’s reuniting failed Seattle lottery picks.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 9th, 2011
10:47 pm
Radmanovic is wearing #77 in camp… maybe if it doesn’t pan out with the Hawks he can go protect Matt Ryan’s blind side.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
10:51 pm
WE NEED BIGS. GOOD SIGNING
Ryan
December 9th, 2011
10:53 pm
We need biggggeeerrererer. Lol We need Center not Foward.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
10:53 pm
How is Boston paying West? Isn’t their payroll high as hell?
STRETCH
December 9th, 2011
10:54 pm
Isnt Rad a Forward? Dont they need a center?
Darth Vader
December 9th, 2011
10:54 pm
I cant believe you guys dont have a life. You guys sit here for hours and hours talking about men playing basketball. Is this really the meaning of your lives? Have you guys peaked? Really? I guess for you guys life is pretty much over huh?, We, go back to your meaningless conversations.
By the way The hawks just signed, Larry bird, Magic Johnson and Micheal Jordon, pending physicals.
Ken Strickland
December 9th, 2011
10:55 pm
SLIMJR-I don’t know how serious you are about the expectations you have for Marvin Williams, but you could be closer to the truth than you might realize. Having a PG that can penetrate and dish, as well as create shots for himself and others, will help both he and Josh tremendously. When is the last time we had a PG that could even think about going coast to coast on a one man fast break, let alone actually being able to do it?
One thing is certain, unlike JJ and Jamal, Teague won’t require clearouts, or have to run the clock down while pounding the ball endlessly before taking his man off the dribble. I honestly believe Teague will allow our starting lineup to finally realize its potential and play the uptempo style of ball it’s built to play.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 9th, 2011
10:56 pm
Radmanovic may be 6′11″ but I don’t know that he really qualifies as a “big”. It’s not like he plays D or crashes the boards or posts up. He is more of the knock down shooter that Smoove wants than the big that Al wants.