Atlanta Hawks: Capped out, left out
It’s the kind of questions I get often on Twitter: “Why don’t the Hawks pursue [insert big-name free agent]?” After I explain that they don’t have the cap space, I sometimes get the follow-up: Why don’t they trade [Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, some other player I don't like] and use that cap space?” And then I have to tell them that doesn’t work, either, because the Hawks are over the cap and have to take salary back in a trade.
The point here is, until the Hawks gain significant cap space, which they aren’t scheduled to do until 2013-14 unless the use the amnesty card, then they aren’t going to be involved with free agents who command more than the MLE. Shoot, they still may not be involved with MLE free agents until they retreat further from the luxury-tax line.
Sure, the Hawks can swing sign-and-trades (which usually is the next question I get after the two above) but those transactions are not easy. The player has to want to sign with the Hawks and then an acceptable deal has to be worked out between Atlanta and the trading partner. That’s a lot of “ifs” involved.
The Hawks made their big when they re-signed J.J. last summer. They had the choice of using him in a sign-and-trade and then making other moves to clear cap space and make a run at the big names everyone buzzes about. Rick Sund, an enthusiastic supporter of re-signing J.J., nonetheless did his due diligence and presented that option to ASG.
All parties decided to bring back J.J. at any cost. So, for now, they must hope that this group’s upper limit is not a six-game loss in the Eastern Conference semifinals.
The reason why a lack of cap flexibility is particularly problematic under the new CBA is explained by Mark Cuban in an email to Tim McMahon of ESPNDallas:
The reality is that in the new system, cap room will have far more value than it had in the past. I realize that everyone is all freaked out about how and where free agents and future free agents are going, but it’s not just about getting one guy.
We are not saving cap room in hope of that one super special free agent being there. It’s about being in the position to improve every year and possibly add some significant, younger players next year and in future years.
What I don’t think people understand is that once a team hits the tax level the ability to improve our team is reduced dramatically. In addition, your ability to make trades is reduced. So basically, if we made the move to keep everyone together with five-year deals, the team we have today is going to be the team we have for the next five years. If we were a young team it would be one thing. But we are not a young team.
The Hawks are not as old as the Mavs but neither do they have anything close to an MVP candidate or a ring. Perhaps that changes this season, or maybe it doesn’t happen until they gain some cap space and start over.
Etc.
- I think the Hawks will make an offer to Jamal. I don’t think it will match what he can get on the market.
- Both Jody Genessy of the Deseret News and Brian T. Smith at the Salt Lake Tribune report that Earl Watson still could re-sign with the Jazz even after they signed Jamaal Tinsley. Watson would be a good pickup for the Hawks because he has good size, is a very good defender and rebounder and has a good assist rate. He also has a high turnover rate and can’t shoot or score but, hey, there are reasons he might be had for the minimum.
- Update ProBasketballTalk says Watson is expected to sign with the Wizards. (H/T to blog commenter mountain_jim)
- Chris Tomasson tweets that power forward prospect Charles Garcia will be at camp with the Hawks. Here is his D-League profile and his DraftExpress.com file.
- Larry Coon and Marc Stein look at the so-called “B list” items that are part of the new CBA.
- You might have heard the league blocked a trade. The teams involved are appealing, according to Stein.
- The Hawks practice at 5 p.m. today. Us media types don’t get in until after 6. Follow me on Twitter for live updates and check back here later tonight for a blog post.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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469 comments Add your comment
tmc
December 9th, 2011
6:48 pm
these owners and this team needs to go away with the league.
Last one out of the building, turn off the lights. good riddance.
Wabe
December 9th, 2011
6:50 pm
But, in defense of the move to resign JJ, just look around at the NBA landscape right now.
Smaller-market teams are being forced to offer these outrageous contracts (like the one we gave JJ) just to hold onto their assets. Smaller-market owners have absolutely no leverage. So, for the Hawks, we might’ve saved a whole lot of cap space, but you’re still not looking at the Hawks having much chance to bring in any of these top-tier players because they’re fixated on playing in one of 6-7 markets with other superstars.
Wabe
December 9th, 2011
6:52 pm
aka…
This league is getting very laughable. You might as well contract 22 teams out of this league and just let these superstars have their Superteams.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
6:54 pm
Down Sizing!
“while Atlanta sends Al to the Rockets for D12 to come here.” -Ramon-
_____________
Ra’mon I like what you’re trying to accomplish here. But, you gotta’ re-work that to get Houston to bite. They trying to get a true center too!
When has the Hawks with Horford ever beat Houston home or away? They’re not just take Horford while giving up the inside beast Scola and the sniper K-Mart so the Hawks can get D12.
Houston, having had Olajuwan and Yao Ming ain’t gone even look at our PF/C Horford, who they routinely man handled. Last time I checked, they like ZaZa more. The only reason the trade for Brad Miller and ZaZa fell through was because Miller failed the Hawks physical exam at the last trade deadline. They tried to ream us then.
One thing Houston’s GM know is how to evaluate a true center. Their problem with Yao is he was a freak … At 7′6″ he is just too large for the rigors of NBA basketball. His feet joints are too small and weak to support the height and weight on them. Stay away from freaks like 7′7″ George Murashan and Minute Bol (rip) those guys are just too big to play our game.
But hey, keep the ideas coming … Maybe Sund has figured how to use a computer by now and is readin the blog for some great ideas. He need all the help he can get. LOL!
Najeh Davenpoop
December 9th, 2011
6:56 pm
I don’t think I am ready to live in a world where Marvin doesn’t walk like a duck anymore. Do we really have to come up with a new nickname for him?
northcyde
December 9th, 2011
6:56 pm
@ superior . . . I think the issue with keeping Bibby + Jordan + the draft pick would’ve arose this season, in regards of the luxury tax.
Hinrich makes 8 million
Bibby was due to make 6.2 million this season . . Jordan will make 1.1 million . . and the #19 pick ( which in the old CBA would’ve been somewhere around 1.2 million . . but probably lower now )
So that’s 8.5 million in salary between those 3 players.
Still . . what the ASG did was too much. They gave them Jordan + a 1st round pick. I guess the ASG had struck out so much on all of their other draft picks, that they didn’t even place any value on what assets they had.
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
7:06 pm
Najeh
I hope he hits a bunch 3’s, then we can call him the “Mad Bomber” or “08″….Hoping he gets back to his 2008 form.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
7:06 pm
Insightful!
“This league is getting very laughable. You might as well contract 22 teams out of this league and just let these superstars have their Superteams.” -Wabe-
_______________
Great insight here! Wabe you’re right, these players would by pass college all together and go straight to the NBA – IF
they could!
Problem is, none of these scrubs know the fundamental skill of how to play pro basketball. The drop off in talent between the gifted player and þhe sifted player is huge. There is no middle class role/specialist players like Rodman was. If a guy could just do one thing and rebound like Kevin Love does, then at least every team could feature a rebounder. Of course Kevin can also score too.
But, naw we one and done players in every draft and they are developmental league players at best when they get here. This is a Grown Azz man’s league – not for these weak statured body frames. They all need to grow and put on weight when they get here. That’s why they can’t supplant an old horse like Otis Thorpe or Kurt Thomas.
They get schooled and man handled by these 39 year old dudes. Its a shame that a small market have to sift through slim pickin’s.
The entire league is filled with tweeners and scrubs at best.
Problem is they all end up on our Hawks bench.
Big Dog
December 9th, 2011
7:07 pm
Its been said that insanity is doing the same things over and over, expecting a different result. I don’t know that Id call that insanity or stubbornness, even stupidity.
Well, like Al Horford said when ask about his preference to play power forward rather than center…
You figure that Ch!t out.
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
7:16 pm
I think Marvin is going to have great year! Cant believe I just typed that? It looks surreal on my computer screen…..lol
C’mon Marvin prove us RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
7:17 pm
MW Kool=Marvin
Najeh Davenpoop
December 9th, 2011
7:19 pm
” You might as well contract 22 teams out of this league and just let these superstars have their Superteams.”
They do need to contract some teams regardless of whether or not superstars want super teams. There is not enough talent in the league in any given year for all 30 teams to feel competitive.
I may be betraying some ignorance here, since I don’t like or know much about soccer, but if I’m not mistaken the English Premier League is something like 15-20 teams, all concentrated in big cities (I think metro London has like 4 or 5 teams). Long term this may be a more profitable and competitively balanced arrangement for the NBA. 3 teams each in NYC, LA, and Chicago, then one each in, for example, DC, Boston, the Bay Area, ATL, Miami, Dallas, Philadelphia, and Houston.
Maybe that is unfair to cities like Indianapolis or Charlotte, but the current arrangement isn’t fair to those cities either. It is foolish to ignore the reality that superstars want to play in big markets. And it’s not like the English Premier League with their arrangement has any issues with remaining popular in cities where they are not represented.
To be honest, if the league had a commissioner who cared more about the long term health of the game than his own ego, I think the Bobcats and Hornets would have been contracted already.
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
7:21 pm
Go big sometimes and put ISO at the 1, and Grady at the 2? Huge back court!
Najeh Davenpoop
December 9th, 2011
7:21 pm
By the way, if it hasn’t been posted already, here is the training camp roster. The T-Mac and Collins signings are official, Keith Benson is also signed, and Stackhouse is in training camp.
Paddy
December 9th, 2011
7:29 pm
ASG is just going to tread water in front of a half empty arena until they can find a sucker to buy a NBA team. Maybe someone in St. Louis will take them back!
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
7:29 pm
Brilliant!
Najeh your post re: concentrated teams in fewer cities is just brilliant! The big cities would have some serious rivalries – serious ones.
Nice.
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
7:36 pm
Drmaryb, the center that Houston want is M. Gasol. They were looking to get P. Gasol to play PF. Horford is better than Scola at the PF. Horford is younger and way cheaper than Gasol.
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
7:38 pm
Drmaryb, I get what you’re saying now, lol. Its funny.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
7:44 pm
Centered!
Ra’mon I didn’t see the part where Houston get Marc and Pau? Hmmm … Why can’t the Hawks do that? How come we get all the left overs?
I loathe ASKG! Until they leave – I’m thrashing them daily and relentlessly, every chance I get.
FIRE ASKG!
FIRE SUND!
FIRE DREW!
Upgrade.
northcyde
December 9th, 2011
7:49 pm
Najeh . . . this issue isn’t about “market”. It’s about how well you run your team.
Portland would be a JUGGERNAUT right now, had it not been for the injuries to Roy and Oden. Roy wasn’t going anywhere, and Portland would’ve matched any offer for Oden in restricted free agency. So that was going to be a team that would’ve been very good for the next 3 – 5 years . . at least.
Oklahoma City is poised to be what Portland would’ve been. They’re going to be the juggernaut, depending on what happens with Russell Westbrook next summer. Durant will be there for the next 4 years. And if he wins a title or two in OKC, I don’t know if he’ll be so quick to run to LA or NYC to play ball. He MIGHT go to Washington DC and play back home.
San Antonio won 4 titles as a small market team and Duncan stayed there for life.
Memphis is on the rise . . a rapid rise . and has their 3 main guys locked up ( Randolph, Gay, Conley ) for the next 4 years . . with possibly Marc Gasol being locked up long term as well.
I mean, you’ve talked ad nauseum about how the ASG has either mismanaged or flat out missed their chance to make us great.
It’s about how these teams are run . . not what market they’re in. Had Lebron or Melo or Howard or Paul won a championship with their respective team, I bet they all would’ve stayed.
Amare didn’t want to leave Phoenix, they simply didn’t want to pay him a MAX deal.
Deron didn’t force himself out of Utah. They made that proactive move themselves for fear of losing him for nothing. And even Deron spent 5 1/2 years in Utah.
These teams are doing this to themselves.
Minnesota . . drafting all of those point guards a few years ago, but trading the best one out of the group ( Ty Lawson ) and passing on the best PG in that draft ( Stephen Curry ).
Charlotte . . drafts Adam Morrison, but passes on Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay ( that’s the Shelden Williams draft, by the way ).
US . . . passing on both Paul and Deron Williams in 2005 . . then taking Shelden in 2006. That’s two top 5 picks for us, and we basically failed to get a star player with both picks.
Nah man . . . this “market” stuff isn’t like baseball, in which a team like Kansas City simply can’t outbid the Yankees and Red Sox for players. These “bad teams” need to make the most out of their draft picks, while also building their team correctly via free agency.
And these ‘bad teams’ don’t have to literally give away assets to these large market teams either. Too many teams simply do salary dumps to these large market teams, and give them the pieces that they want or need.
FreshFromATL
December 9th, 2011
7:50 pm
Wabe,
The thing is though, the Hawks are not a “small” market team. The Hawks just have terrible owners.
WhitePeopleLoveUsher
December 9th, 2011
7:51 pm
Welcome 2 Atlanta, Keith Bogans!!!
You heard it hear first!!!
I have top secret, inside sources
WhitePeopleLoveUsher
December 9th, 2011
7:51 pm
here-
Billy
December 9th, 2011
7:52 pm
McGrady is the most overrated “superstar” I’ve ever seen!! Not sure how he can help the Hawks, even coming off the bench!
WhitePeopleLoveUsher
December 9th, 2011
7:56 pm
Sources: The Hawks now have a decent perimeter defender in Keith Bogans
WhitePeopleLoveUsher
December 9th, 2011
7:59 pm
Top Secret Sources: Possibly Korver too. Hang on for the WILD ride, folks.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
8:01 pm
@ FreshFromATL! Amen bruh.
__________________
@ northcyde … Wow! Your response to Najeh is hard to argue with. Nice posts from both of you. Fantastic arguments on both side. Now, I have a lot to chew on.
I have nothing to add to any of either comment. Keep it coming!
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
8:01 pm
Jeff Foster resigned 1 year deal with Pacers. He is someone we could’ve really used.
Oh wait, we only offer free agents to 1 year veteran minimum deals.
SMDH
bigdave
December 9th, 2011
8:02 pm
listening to Sam Mitchell on NBATV
wish the Hawks wouldve taken a look at him..
WhitePeopleLoveUsher
December 9th, 2011
8:02 pm
BENCH
________
McGrady
Bogans
Korver
Pachulia
Rolle
Sy?
??, etc.
bigdave
December 9th, 2011
8:03 pm
just spoke on something i mention last year..
making a call to orlando and seeing if you can get Dwight for Wade/LBJ..
bigdave
December 9th, 2011
8:06 pm
if you’re Orlando.. you’re not getting better value that arguably one of the 2 best in the world.. franchise cornerstones..
Mia rids themselves of a your turn my turn situation from 2 players who need the rock..
read the idea of someone recommending James playing as a big.. IMO if he was in need of a position change, he would translate easily to a PG.
northcyde
December 9th, 2011
8:07 pm
I wouldn’t mind Bogans in the mix here. He’d definitely be an upgrade over Damien Wilkins as a defensive SG.
PG – Teague / Hinrich
G – Johnson / Bogans
F – Marvin / T-Mac
PF – Smith / Benson
C – Horford / Zaza
SMH @ Lamar Odom crying because he got traded. HAHAHAHA . . are you serious? This is the first I’m hearing of this interview. See, this is why people have always called you SOFT . . . Lamar. HAHA . . he really took that trade personal.
Lamar . . you are NOT Chris Paul. He is a future Hall of Famer. You are a good role player ( on both the court and even on your reality show in which your wife is the real star ).
I bet Stephen A wanted to crack up laughing at this dude, but tried his best to sound sincere. Stephen A is sounding like Dr Phil in this interview.
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=7333531
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
8:12 pm
UGH!
HawksPRGuy AT – HawksPRGuy
RT @ajchawks: #Hawks coach Drew says right now Sy is No. 2 PG and “we’ll see who shakes loose” in FA. Says T-Mac will play some PG too.
bigdave
December 9th, 2011
8:15 pm
lol..
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
8:15 pm
AJ, would you rather have Bibby instead of Sy as No. 2 pg?
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
8:16 pm
I wonder if worst case scenario if Bibby would sign here for the minimum to be the third pg off the bench.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
8:20 pm
Ignorant Troll!
Hey fellas, please “Scroll-A-Troll” top secret inside source translation: Tyrone and his cousin Boo-Boo ‘Nem.
If it ain’t coming from Najeh and Adrian Wojo with live links? That’s how you know when to “Get your Scroll on”
MC, can you block these gnats?
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
8:21 pm
WE RESIGNED JASON COLLINS.
THE OWNERS AND FRONT OFFICE DID NOT SEE HIM ALL SUMMER BECAUSE OF THE LOCKOUT AND HE WAS GONE YESTERDAY. HOW DO WE KNOW HE DIDN’T GAIN 150 POUNDS AND OUR INEPT STAFF DIDN’T JUST WIRE HIM THE FORM TO FILL OUT?
ALSO, WE WON’T PLAY DWIGHT 4 TIMES THIS YEAR SO IT MAKES COLLINS LESS USEFUL
bigdave
December 9th, 2011
8:23 pm
what is in the water in Portland? Oden has another injury, had to restructure his latest offer.. and Lamarcus was held out with b/c of injury…
FreshFromATL
December 9th, 2011
8:26 pm
I’m interested in seeing what Sy has since he is LD’s “secret” project.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
8:27 pm
Ducks in Oregon!
Sekou Smith on NBA TV just reported:
Gregg Oden failed his physical today and has agreed to re-work his contract.
Lamarcus Aldridge failed his team physical and the problem is undisclosed.
Brandon Roy is retiring. (we already knew that)
_____________
Wow! I guess we shouldn’t complain to much over here – hugh? At least we are young and healthy – in our prime. I thought we had a hex on us, but know I feel bad for Portland. Get Well Soon – Portland! God Bless your health, I hope Lamarcus is ok and it is not seriously bad.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
8:29 pm
“Ignorant Troll!
Hey fellas, please “Scroll-A-Troll” top secret inside source translation: Tyrone and his cousin Boo-Boo ‘Nem.
If it ain’t coming from Najeh and Adrian Wojo with live links? That’s how you know when to “Get your Scroll on””
LOL. Can we also do something about this Jeff.Joe.Bogut guy? FFS no one wants Leuer on this team. Guy posts a Dickens novel with each post
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
8:30 pm
Greg Oden has another problem with his knee….. I am so glad the Hawks got the 3rd pick that year and OKC is very happy with the 2nd.
The NBA 80% luck, 15% other kind of luck and 5% skill.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
8:31 pm
Feel bad for Portland. Definitely agree with Northcyde about how they’re cursed.
2 years ago [I think?] Pryz (who is universally loved on this blog) went down with that injury, I think a few weeks after Oden.
What could have been:
Lawson
B.Roy
Wallace
Aldridge
Oden
DAYUM!!!
I’ll say this again: The Hawks are NEVER EVER GOIN TO GO INTO THE LT. THE OWNERS DO NOT WANT TO WIN. WE DO NOT HAVE MONEY TO SPEND ON FREE AGENTS. PATHETIC
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
8:31 pm
Dough Boy!
Dang! Melo on NBa TV right now, he looked like Shawn Kemp after a lock out. Wow! He looked like Big Baby on my screen, I almost didn’t recognize it was Melo until she said his name.
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
8:33 pm
Sam Mitchell is very good.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
8:34 pm
Northcyde: “Still . . what the ASG did was too much. They gave them Jordan + a 1st round pick. I guess the ASG had struck out so much on all of their other draft picks, that they didn’t even place any value on what assets they had”
I’m not too upset about losing Jordan Crawford. He is one of those giddy guys in the intramural league who waits at halfcourt while everyone else plays defense then begs for the ball when his team gets the rebound so he can shoot. What I am mad about though is that we didn’t make a stronger push for Al Thornton (WHO WAS RELEASED SHORTLY AFTER THE TRADE AND IS AN ATL NATIVE) or McGhee/Blatche.
We also gave up Mo Evans who is a nice bench piece, although Damien did fine for us
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
8:35 pm
“Dough Boy!
Dang! Melo on NBa TV right now, he looked like Shawn Kemp after a lock out. Wow! He looked like Big Baby on my screen, I almost didn’t recognize it was Melo until she said his name.”
LOL. I saw a pic of him standing next to D.Fish, Mo, and others as Fish and Hunter talked about the lockout (maybe 2 months ago). He was wearing an orange/yellowish shirt.
Dude has a gut – no homo. Melo does not impress me as all as an NBA Player. Cannot wait til he starts getting into it with Woody about his lackadaisical defense.
GO WOODY!!!!!
Grandmaster JeJe
December 9th, 2011
8:39 pm
Here it is:
http://nimg.sulekha.com/sports/original700/derek-fisher-carmelo-anthony-lebron-james-ray-allen-dwyane-wade-2011-9-30-20-50-58.jpg
And Horford says we need to add more players. Maybe that’s true, BUT YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY DEFEBSE