Atlanta Hawks: Capped out, left out
It’s the kind of questions I get often on Twitter: “Why don’t the Hawks pursue [insert big-name free agent]?” After I explain that they don’t have the cap space, I sometimes get the follow-up: Why don’t they trade [Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, some other player I don't like] and use that cap space?” And then I have to tell them that doesn’t work, either, because the Hawks are over the cap and have to take salary back in a trade.
The point here is, until the Hawks gain significant cap space, which they aren’t scheduled to do until 2013-14 unless the use the amnesty card, then they aren’t going to be involved with free agents who command more than the MLE. Shoot, they still may not be involved with MLE free agents until they retreat further from the luxury-tax line.
Sure, the Hawks can swing sign-and-trades (which usually is the next question I get after the two above) but those transactions are not easy. The player has to want to sign with the Hawks and then an acceptable deal has to be worked out between Atlanta and the trading partner. That’s a lot of “ifs” involved.
The Hawks made their big when they re-signed J.J. last summer. They had the choice of using him in a sign-and-trade and then making other moves to clear cap space and make a run at the big names everyone buzzes about. Rick Sund, an enthusiastic supporter of re-signing J.J., nonetheless did his due diligence and presented that option to ASG.
All parties decided to bring back J.J. at any cost. So, for now, they must hope that this group’s upper limit is not a six-game loss in the Eastern Conference semifinals.
The reason why a lack of cap flexibility is particularly problematic under the new CBA is explained by Mark Cuban in an email to Tim McMahon of ESPNDallas:
The reality is that in the new system, cap room will have far more value than it had in the past. I realize that everyone is all freaked out about how and where free agents and future free agents are going, but it’s not just about getting one guy.
We are not saving cap room in hope of that one super special free agent being there. It’s about being in the position to improve every year and possibly add some significant, younger players next year and in future years.
What I don’t think people understand is that once a team hits the tax level the ability to improve our team is reduced dramatically. In addition, your ability to make trades is reduced. So basically, if we made the move to keep everyone together with five-year deals, the team we have today is going to be the team we have for the next five years. If we were a young team it would be one thing. But we are not a young team.
The Hawks are not as old as the Mavs but neither do they have anything close to an MVP candidate or a ring. Perhaps that changes this season, or maybe it doesn’t happen until they gain some cap space and start over.
Etc.
- I think the Hawks will make an offer to Jamal. I don’t think it will match what he can get on the market.
- Both Jody Genessy of the Deseret News and Brian T. Smith at the Salt Lake Tribune report that Earl Watson still could re-sign with the Jazz even after they signed Jamaal Tinsley. Watson would be a good pickup for the Hawks because he has good size, is a very good defender and rebounder and has a good assist rate. He also has a high turnover rate and can’t shoot or score but, hey, there are reasons he might be had for the minimum.
- Update ProBasketballTalk says Watson is expected to sign with the Wizards. (H/T to blog commenter mountain_jim)
- Chris Tomasson tweets that power forward prospect Charles Garcia will be at camp with the Hawks. Here is his D-League profile and his DraftExpress.com file.
- Larry Coon and Marc Stein look at the so-called “B list” items that are part of the new CBA.
- You might have heard the league blocked a trade. The teams involved are appealing, according to Stein.
- The Hawks practice at 5 p.m. today. Us media types don’t get in until after 6. Follow me on Twitter for live updates and check back here later tonight for a blog post.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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469 comments Add your comment
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
3:21 pm
The Decision!
I guess nixing the CP3 trade was:
The Decision II. Will there be a trilogy or IV, V VI – soon coming to a theatre near you?
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
3:22 pm
Oh and the draft pick thing… This year the #40 pick could be just as good as the #20 pick who could be better than a lotto pick.
And the Hawks traded a 1st rounder AND 2010’s Jordan Crawford, whom irregardless of empty stats has high value and is partaking in Washington’s ads and marketing,
for KIRK HINRICH and 2nd round blowouts.
go Sund Go!
northcyde
December 9th, 2011
3:26 pm
HHouston wasn’t tanking. They were clearing cap space to make a run at Nene or better yet Marc Gasol. That gives them a top 5 frontline and improves that team dramatically.
The more I look at this deal, the more I think all three teams would’ve came out on the positive end.
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
3:27 pm
I don’t get it…
Big Baby is getting 4yrs and 26mil from the Magic….. They just traded a similar sized PF(Bass 6′6) to Boston who was making 4mill..I don’t get it.
I know we hate Sund, but you show a GM who doesn’t have 2 bad contracts on their roster.
Sautee
December 9th, 2011
3:29 pm
s-b,
“I tried to stay with this team but if on opening night Marvin Williams is moonlighting as a NBA starting SF and Al Horford is moonlighting as a NBA starting C. I am officially done with the Hawks until those two things change. I am sorry but I can not stomach another year of a fake starting SF and C.”
Is this anything like the “officially done” you were for a few weeks last year after the Hinrich trade?
I hope you won’t stay away. We need all kinds of points of view.
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
3:30 pm
Rufus, I was questionning the phrase “voted against the CP3 trade” as if there was actually a vote amongst owners. I have not heard anything like that. Cuban may have offered an opinion to Stern (like Gilbert offered), but I don’t think there was a formal vote.
Lamar needs to get into camp before Khloe reminds him that he has expensive gifts to buy.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
3:30 pm
offense sells tickets, Defense wins games,
Rebounding wins Championships” !
- Pat Summitt -
Chandler – 13% offensive rebound rate, 19% total rebound (7′1)
Howard – 12% offensive rebound rate, 22% total rebound (6′10, 260)
Bogut – 10% offensive rebound rate, 18% total rebound (7′1)
Horford Pachulia 16% total (6′9.75 and 6′11)
Josh Smith 15% total rebound – (6′8)
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
3:31 pm
Jump Shooter
December 9th, 2011
2:09 pm
Yeah Steve W, and maybe Humphries can get back together with K.Kardashian and we’d have eye candy in the stands…
You haven’t heard the latest news?
Kim K. is setting up to get her cakes smashed by none other than Mr Heisman himself, Mr Miami star running back : REGGIE BUSH!!!! lol
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
3:32 pm
push push in the BUSH!^^^^^^^
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
3:34 pm
Joe, Jeff – I think in your scenario the Heat would still put Battier on JJ, and put LeBron on Josh.
You said, “LeBron would Guard Joe Johnson – and this would probably be a tough matchup for Joe but its important not give LeBron a rest for the offensive end.” Just the way you wrote that, you do know that we don’t get to pick who guards our guys, right? I’m sure you do, it just came across funny.
And I will probably be a lone ranger on this one, but I would pick up Gilbert Arenas in half a second. When you have no money to spend, you take chances. And if he would sign for the vet min., I would take a flyer on him.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
3:35 pm
15 Roster Spots!
“Will the Hawks carry 15 players on the roster this season?” – O’Brien -
__________________
Ha! The answer lies in whether it will cause them to pierce the luxury tax threshold. Can’t let any air and opportunity occupy that space. LMAO
O'Brien
December 9th, 2011
3:35 pm
4 years, $26 mil for Big Baby? I think Bass at $4.25 mil is a better deal.
northcyde,
The guy for Houston to get is Marc Gasol (not nene). Because he is restricted, I think Gasol would tell Memphis not to match if Houston gave him a max offer, so he could play with his brother. And that would give them a nice front line.
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
3:36 pm
northcyde
December 9th, 2011
3:26 pm
“Houston wasn’t tanking. They were clearing cap space to make a run at Nene or better yet Marc Gasol. That gives them a top 5 frontline and improves that team dramatically.
The more I look at this deal, the more I think all three teams would’ve came out on the positive end.”
I think everybody would have been happy except for couple of rotten apples outside of those three organizations…..
The godfather up to know good again….
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
3:36 pm
no^^^
Harry Hawk
December 9th, 2011
3:37 pm
I think Stern did the right thing. Everyone knows Paul is leaving New Orleans. Adding Scola, Martin, and Odom would mean that any prospective owner would have over $30 million committed to those three players for the next two seasons. A new owner would rather have A) a superstar like Chris Paul, or B) a clean slate to deal with.
That being said, my big question is this:
If the NBA is really concerned about the Hornets’ viability to prospective owners, why the hell didn’t the league step in and quash the trade before the negotiations got so far along?
You see, the “Stern wants Paul to go to the Knicks” conspiracy theory doesn’t hold water because Tyson Chandler’s signing there and they won’t have either the cap room or the assets to get Paul. The “Stern doesn’t want Paul to go to the Lakers” conspiracy theory doesn’t hold water either. I don’t think Stern cares. Therefore, the reaction by smaller-market owners (and owners competing against the Lakers, such as Mark Cuban) had to be the main reason for blocking this deal. I don’t think this was such a great trade for L.A., but CP3 is a superstar, at least in the eyes of the league and a lot of fans. Even though Paul is likely to go to a big market on his own, I think most of the league’s owners would rather see him do it via free agency. It isn’t about the Hornets. It’s about owners like Dan Gilbert who are sick of superstars bolting for greener pastures.
I sure wish Joe Johnson could leave. He’s not a superstar, though.
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
3:37 pm
I like Bass way better than Big Baby – weird move too me. Unless they are going to use Big Baby as a backup C, like they did Bass. He is a little bigger than Bass.
BigTimeTECHFan
December 9th, 2011
3:39 pm
I have not problem with the CP3 trade to lakers.
I think the Lakers ended up with a worse team but more option to impove.
Cavs owner is upset because he loses Lakers Cap Tax money, that’s gabage. Lakers should have every right to free cap space.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
December 9th, 2011
3:39 pm
Slimjr, you were too quick for me. Nice catch.
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
3:41 pm
northcyde,
If that was Houston plan then I understand a little more but their view of Pau is much higher than mine…. I think he is “buttermilk biscuit” soft.
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
3:41 pm
So CP3 is besides himself on such a great day we called Friday(I’m off!)? So he doesn’t show up for camp? How dare that dude not show up today! Who does he thinks he is? Let swap places dude…Right! lol
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
3:42 pm
Brad Wanamaker is slow, a decent shooter, unimpressive lateral quickness, but pretty good size for a combo G – 6-4 210. Very good passer, and does have good defensive fundamentals.
That’s the Clift Notes from DraftExpress.
HoosierHawk
December 9th, 2011
3:42 pm
@ MC
Looks like Billups and Arenas get amnestied. ANy idea how much they will make from new teams, and given Hinrich injury, any chance the Hawks go after either?
BigTimeTECHFan
December 9th, 2011
3:43 pm
Also when NBA took ownership of NO, they hire people to run team and agreed the League office would not interfere with basketball decision. Now that exactly what they did. Said Blocked trade was basketball decision
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
3:45 pm
Steve W good info.
Wanamaker could be a Billups type off the bench. Billups struggled as a SG but you get him a big SG and a big lineup and he learned to run a team.
Stop DILUTING the roster and make a trade. Not one player signed has posted a better offense or defense efficiency than Marvin Williams.
NOT one. sad
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
3:47 pm
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
December 9th, 2011
3:39 pm
“Slimjr, you were too quick for me. Nice catch.”
Hey Bud, even a blind squirrel stumbles onto a nut from time to time! LOL!
But thank u Sir….
ryan
December 9th, 2011
3:54 pm
I think to Paul should been able to go the Lakers when did the NBA become a Nanny league NBA is not the Fed Gov .
ryan
December 9th, 2011
3:55 pm
I wounder if Stern would approved a trade to the Knicks .
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
3:58 pm
Re SteveW:
You said, “LeBron would Guard Joe Johnson – and this would probably be a tough matchup for Joe but its important not give LeBron a rest for the offensive end.” Just the way you wrote that, you do know that we don’t get to pick who guards our guys, right? I’m sure you do, it just came across funny.
That was in contrast to what what we had before: Joe Johnson DEFENDING Lebron.
When the Heat have the ball:
Teague/Hinrich would be guarding DWade – Hinrich is known as a DWade stopper, and I think Teague with his speed could give DWade problems. But of course Wade could post Teague.
We could do that.
JJ would Guard LeBron – He can for short stretches Guard him about as well as anybody. JJ wants to be bigtime, so he tries very hard in these situations.
No JJ cant.
Hawks vs Small Ball
Josh Smith would Guard Lebron.
Bogut would Guard Bosh.
Leuer would Guard Haslem.
Johnson and Teague could toss up on who would guard Wade and inactive Battier.
Against us
Bosh.Haslem. Lebron.Battier.Wade
Bogut.Leuer. Josh.Johnson.Teague
Joe, Jeff – I think in your scenario the Heat would still put Battier on JJ, and put LeBron on Josh.
Either way we win right? We have size and rebounding and shooting.
As opposed to “LeBron would Guard Marvin – and this would probably give LeBron a rest for the offensive end.”
You said it yourself. Rest Lebron. Marvin does not do anything and just stands there. And JJ just iso iso iso.
With Joe and Josh you can run the PnR and now its a 2 on 1 with JJ.
JJ and Josh PnR
or
JJ iso and Marvin iso/stand in corner. IDK about Dept. of Irony Its really not that hard a decision for me.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
4:00 pm
Really curious. Dept of Irony what do you think of the recent tweaks and what Sekou said about our plateau/skids?
O'Brien
December 9th, 2011
4:04 pm
Harry the Hawk,
So you think the Hornets should hold on to CP3, and then let him opt out and walk away next year, with nothing in return?
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
4:05 pm
MC, when are the Hawks expecting TMac to join the team? I ask because two seasons ago, it took the Hawks 2 weeks to sign Joe Smith, though everyone knew he would be signing there.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
December 9th, 2011
4:07 pm
Flavor Flav,
I find it ironic.
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
4:08 pm
So now the Nets will not be allowed to acquire D12 because of tampering, lol. This is the greatest time for another team to make an unbelievable offer to the Magic. Why not call up the Magic and Rockets, and see if Orlando would accept Martin and Scola, along with Kirk, while Atlanta sends Al to the Rockets for D12 to come here.
Mike
December 9th, 2011
4:10 pm
I always wonder, the reason why they dont re-build the core or destory the core because what happen with Nique-Manning. I know that we are lock into JJ contract but I got a feeling it is something else.
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
4:14 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=88bpc4c
What?
December 9th, 2011
4:14 pm
“Why not call up the Magic and Rockets, and see if Orlando would accept Martin and Scola, along with Kirk, while Atlanta sends Al to the Rockets for D12 to come here.”
Martin and Scola for Horford makes no sense. Horford is 6″9.
Scola is almost as talented as Horford anyway and is tougher.
Jimmy
December 9th, 2011
4:15 pm
With teams playing 4 or 5 games a week and probably only going all out for 2 of them, this is going to be the worst NBA season ever. The Hawks could have the greatest starting 5 of all time, and it won’t matter, because they can’t play 48 minutes 5 nights a week. Benches are going to have to play strong and supply a large amount of minutes every other night, and it’ll be a crapshoot as to who shows up, and when. The Hawks are going to be lucky to be a .500 team unless Sund signs some miracle workers, and I’m not counting on that.
The Atlanta Hawks Free Agency Checklist - Soaring Down South
December 9th, 2011
4:15 pm
[...] him anyway). I don’t expect the Hawks to sign a Nene or Marc Gasol type because it’s impossible due to capspace, but there are Free Agents out there that are available on the cheap (willing to accept vet [...]
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
4:17 pm
What? Horford would man the PF position in Houston, and they’re still able to make an offer to Gasol. Scola is taller than Horford. But isn’t BETTER than Horford.
ryan
December 9th, 2011
4:17 pm
I agree Ra’mon even though i think its wrong for the NBA to do this it gives teams a window jump in like the Hawks for D12 or CP3 we dream can’t we .
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
4:19 pm
Ryan, the league wasn’t wrong to stop the Orlando trade, because D12 is under contract, but his agent was negotiating with the Nets like he was a free agent.
superiorblogman
December 9th, 2011
4:21 pm
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
3:15 pm
I tried to stay with this team but if on opening night Marvin Williams is moonlighting as a NBA starting SF and Al Horford is moonlighting as a NBA starting C. I am officially done with the Hawks until those two things change. I am sorry but I can not stomach another year of a fake starting SF and C.
===
superior? Well put. who will you support? Cant stomach the popular bandwagon teams. Not a lot of good basketball teams I can stomach.
PointGuardSlim- Even though you are a headcase I like you. I must say I will just watch my Mississippi State Bulldogs for my basketball fix. I will still watch the Hawks but I am very much sadden by this proposed roster almost to the point of tears. I can not take this any longer. I will watch but will not support to the point of being a real fan and sticking with them through good and bad. I hate the ASG,Rick Sund, and everyone in the front office, including old diabetic Nique.
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
4:22 pm
The deal is, everyone in the league knows Otis Smith is about to be fired this season (and after last season’s trades, shouldn’t he?). And then on top of it, Orlando’s Executive goes and drunk dial Howard’s phone to talk to him. That franchise is on its way down! When you start giving 4 year deals to 6′6 PF/C, then you know the picking is slim.
KevinM
December 9th, 2011
4:32 pm
Suns waive VC and Gani Lawal….come on, Sund….there’s another PF avaialable! Lord knows we need a couple more!
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
4:39 pm
I cant believe all the DEBBIE DOWNERS today? Did you guys get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
I’m usually the downer on these blogs…
But after getting up this morning I have a different gut feeling but this squad..
May have ta mute Nasal from time to time though..That guy drives me crazy sometimes!
They are going to surprise you guys! Just stay tuned! Its gonna be a ride!! Watch out!
C’mon Marvin prove us all wrong man!!
KevinM
December 9th, 2011
4:39 pm
Source: Bulls want Jamal Crawford but can only get him through sign-and-trade. Hornets, Pacers, Nets, Bulls are on his list of teams…
I still say Sund ends up with zilch if JC1 goes elsewhere.
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
4:53 pm
Sund doesn’t have permission to get a player for JC1 because a player will cost money. Remember when we let Al Harrington go for non-basketball assets? At best, we will get a draft pick or salary relief (in the form of some type of trade exception).
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
4:54 pm
KevinM, a SMART GM and Executive would offer a S&T of Jamal, along with Kirk, and a draft pick for CP3, without an extension. And if he signs an extension, throw in Al Horford for Okafor with the deal.
Q
December 9th, 2011
4:55 pm
Atlanta has a pro basketball team????
……go figure……
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
5:10 pm
Horford is 6′9.75″. AVERAGE height for a PF. hint AVERAGE hint. Hes a tweener center.
RE: “Why not call up the Magic and Rockets, and see if Orlando would accept Martin and Scola, along with Kirk, while Atlanta sends Al to the Rockets for D12 to come here.”
Martin and Scola for Horford makes no sense.
You overvalue Scola’s offense vs his below average PF rebounding. Horford’s average rebounding was what gets us to the playoffs. Youd have more shooting but youd have to make up the rebounding somehow.
Oh and Scola’s age is a factor.