Atlanta Hawks: Capped out, left out
It’s the kind of questions I get often on Twitter: “Why don’t the Hawks pursue [insert big-name free agent]?” After I explain that they don’t have the cap space, I sometimes get the follow-up: Why don’t they trade [Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, some other player I don't like] and use that cap space?” And then I have to tell them that doesn’t work, either, because the Hawks are over the cap and have to take salary back in a trade.
The point here is, until the Hawks gain significant cap space, which they aren’t scheduled to do until 2013-14 unless the use the amnesty card, then they aren’t going to be involved with free agents who command more than the MLE. Shoot, they still may not be involved with MLE free agents until they retreat further from the luxury-tax line.
Sure, the Hawks can swing sign-and-trades (which usually is the next question I get after the two above) but those transactions are not easy. The player has to want to sign with the Hawks and then an acceptable deal has to be worked out between Atlanta and the trading partner. That’s a lot of “ifs” involved.
The Hawks made their big when they re-signed J.J. last summer. They had the choice of using him in a sign-and-trade and then making other moves to clear cap space and make a run at the big names everyone buzzes about. Rick Sund, an enthusiastic supporter of re-signing J.J., nonetheless did his due diligence and presented that option to ASG.
All parties decided to bring back J.J. at any cost. So, for now, they must hope that this group’s upper limit is not a six-game loss in the Eastern Conference semifinals.
The reason why a lack of cap flexibility is particularly problematic under the new CBA is explained by Mark Cuban in an email to Tim McMahon of ESPNDallas:
The reality is that in the new system, cap room will have far more value than it had in the past. I realize that everyone is all freaked out about how and where free agents and future free agents are going, but it’s not just about getting one guy.
We are not saving cap room in hope of that one super special free agent being there. It’s about being in the position to improve every year and possibly add some significant, younger players next year and in future years.
What I don’t think people understand is that once a team hits the tax level the ability to improve our team is reduced dramatically. In addition, your ability to make trades is reduced. So basically, if we made the move to keep everyone together with five-year deals, the team we have today is going to be the team we have for the next five years. If we were a young team it would be one thing. But we are not a young team.
The Hawks are not as old as the Mavs but neither do they have anything close to an MVP candidate or a ring. Perhaps that changes this season, or maybe it doesn’t happen until they gain some cap space and start over.
Etc.
- I think the Hawks will make an offer to Jamal. I don’t think it will match what he can get on the market.
- Both Jody Genessy of the Deseret News and Brian T. Smith at the Salt Lake Tribune report that Earl Watson still could re-sign with the Jazz even after they signed Jamaal Tinsley. Watson would be a good pickup for the Hawks because he has good size, is a very good defender and rebounder and has a good assist rate. He also has a high turnover rate and can’t shoot or score but, hey, there are reasons he might be had for the minimum.
- Update ProBasketballTalk says Watson is expected to sign with the Wizards. (H/T to blog commenter mountain_jim)
- Chris Tomasson tweets that power forward prospect Charles Garcia will be at camp with the Hawks. Here is his D-League profile and his DraftExpress.com file.
- Larry Coon and Marc Stein look at the so-called “B list” items that are part of the new CBA.
- You might have heard the league blocked a trade. The teams involved are appealing, according to Stein.
- The Hawks practice at 5 p.m. today. Us media types don’t get in until after 6. Follow me on Twitter for live updates and check back here later tonight for a blog post.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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469 comments Add your comment
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
2:11 pm
If we really want to change the culture of this team, LD has to go, unless he’s vastly improved. He and Woody have been here what 8 years? We’ll never know what a real coach would do with this team probably.
Solid PG in Teague and Hinrich
All Stars in JJ and Al
DPOY type in Smoove
One of the best backup C’s in the game in ZaZa
OB – I don’t want to wake up! When I do, we still have Marvin at SF!
bigdave
December 9th, 2011
2:12 pm
shouldve traded Jamal last season.
Jump Shooter
December 9th, 2011
2:12 pm
I got an idea. Bring in Charles Barkley,Michael Jordan,Hakeem Olajuwon,John Stockton,and Clyde Drexler. Call the team Atlanta “Old School” instead of the Atlanta Hawks…
Tremaine
December 9th, 2011
2:14 pm
Jump Shooter
December 9th, 2011
2:02 pm
Mike, why did Sund decide to overpay for JJ ? That’s the kinda sheet that gets people fired by hamstringing the team to make moves.
They resigned JJ because they knew they were going to sell the team but painted it like they were trying to compete for a championship. The ones that bought that bs are on here trying to think of ways we can use Benson, McGrady, and the rest of the garbage on the bench.
Jump Shooter
December 9th, 2011
2:14 pm
zaza best back-up center ? Hurry up and pass that joint man. You’ve been smokin it too long…
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
2:14 pm
Matt Harpring just tweeted Paul may sue, especially if this means he has to sign for less than his Bird Rights.
And he said don’t be surprised if the trade decision is reversed somehow. A tweak in the trade I guess.
cp
December 9th, 2011
2:15 pm
This team has no depth. If the Hawks are counting on second rounders and undrafted kids to be productive then we are in trouble. Our main guys are going to log heavy minutes this year. LD already had bad sub patterns, throw in no bench and its a recipe for disaster this year.
Jump Shooter
December 9th, 2011
2:16 pm
They should have offered Joe Johnson HALF of what they gave him per year. No other team wanted him for the kind of money Atlanta paid him. Not even close. Retarded management right there…
Jump Shooter
December 9th, 2011
2:17 pm
SteveW, you must be Zaza’s daddy ?
Jump Shooter
December 9th, 2011
2:19 pm
Hawks should keep Jeff Teague & Al Horford then get rid of EVERYONE else From Sund down to superstar back-up Zaza Gabor…
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
2:21 pm
Jump Shooter – I said one of the best. There’s not many legit C’s in the NBA right now.
Out of 30 teams in the NBA, ZaZa was 26th among C’s in scoring. He was 17th in rebounding rate, just ahead of Al.
23rd in total rebounds per game.
31st in Blocks, 28th in mpg.
So yes, he is one of the best Back Up Centers in the League.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
2:23 pm
Also @ SteveW on Haslem vs Josh… Everybody just plays off of Josh Smith. It is very easy to stop a small PF who cant shoot.
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
2:26 pm
Player development people, player development.
OB, Lopez and Nene may combine to pull down 10 boards/game. Not likely much more than that.
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
2:26 pm
In real rebounds per 48 minutes, ZaZa is way ahead of guys like Nene, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, and Jason Thompson believe it or not. And he’s just behind (.2 per game) Al Jefferson, David Lee, and Roy Hibbert.
He’s a solid backup NBA C. Houston would love to have him. And am I ever glad that Brad Miller trade fell thru with them. Wow!!
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
2:29 pm
Joe, Jeff – Yes, but I think if Josh is 30 lbs lighter and quicker he can still maneuver around Udonis. Do a semi-floater kind of shot in the lane or something. It would be somewhat of a mismatch I would think.
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
2:29 pm
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
One more note for when games actually start: From Dec. 25-Feb. 6, NBA teams allowed to dress/play 13 guys per game, one more than usual 12
Cool, a little more chance to watch that always entertaining player development. Can’t wait to see Wanamaker improve his jumper from the wing.
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
2:31 pm
Jump Shooter – If I had a son pullin’ down 4.25 m per year, I would be on the Meditterranean somewhere spending some of his money, and not on this blog. Sorry
BigTimeTECHFan
December 9th, 2011
2:31 pm
Wonder if there is a chance the Hawks could get Will Bynum for Crawford in a sign and trade
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
2:32 pm
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
NBA teams informed of key dates today, sources say. Window to amnesty players is Dec. 9 (today) thru Dec. 16. Trade deadline is March 15
tyger
December 9th, 2011
2:34 pm
Damn! Shelden Williams signed with New Jersey Nets! Rats!
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
2:36 pm
AJ – Man, I don’t know, it must be the former coach in me, but I’m one of those guys that love when a JC2, Rolle, Sy etc. get an opportunity to play. I like seeing what they have I guess. Hidden treasure, diamond in the rough. Or junk. But at least you know.
That’s why I’ve pushed for Teague so much. The eye test, not the stat sheet, always showed me the dude improved our team. He just fit with his athleticism. He elevated the team when out there.
So I started pushing for him, when Woody, the LD just hated him for whatever reasons. But we just kept doing the Charge of the Light Brigade by Tennyson thing, and would march Bibby, Jamal out there and just get destroyed, epically last season on a regular basis. Put Teague out there and you may lose, but we at least competed.
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
2:37 pm
Mark Cuban voted against the trade for CP3…..Wow.
That deal will get done when D12 is traded to another team, Nene signs and Chandler signs. The deal was blocked because it made it possible for the lakers to still sign D12 and WHAT OWNER IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WANTS THAT TO HAPPEN…..LA also got a huge trade exception and saved 40mil in salary, while getting the best player. I BET 25 OWNERS VETOED THAT DEAL.
PS. What the HELL is Houston doing???????
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
2:40 pm
Brad Wanamaker can shoot all he wants. It doesnt matter if hes not a center.
PG Jeff Teague – 6% rebounding
SG Joe Johnson – 7% rebounding
SF Marvin Williams – 10% rebounding
SF Josh Smith – 15% rebounding
F-C Al Horford – 16% rebounding
54% rebounding smh
PG Jeff Teague – 6% rebounding
SG Joe Johnson – 7% rebounding
SF Josh Smith – 15% rebounding
PF Jon Leuer – ?12%? rebounding
C Andrew Bogut – 18% rebounding
58% rebounding and thats assuming the 7 foot, 3 point shooter. Leuer is as good a rebounder as 6′10 softie Channing Frye.
===
Mavericks owner Mark Cuban proclaims Dallas has enough size and depth to beat the Lakers
Speaking with reporters, Mavericks Owner Mark Cuban didn’t mince words when he was asked whether Dallas can beat the Lakers this season: “Hell yes. That’s it. Hell yes. We’ve got the size now. We’ve got the depth. We’ve got a lot more depth than the Lakers. It’s not even close there.” After he was asked what the team’s expectations entailed after winning at least 50 games for nine consecutive seasons, Cuban raised the bar pretty high. “We’re going to have so much depth that it’s really going to give us an advantage this year,” he said. “All our guys are coming in with one focus only and that’s to win a championship. That’s the goal. ”
===
“A championship team needs someone who can protect the rim defensively and an elite shot-creator offensively. Occasionally, in the case of someone like Tim Duncan, one player can fill both roles.”
Why cant we have SHOT CREATIN & SHOOTING & SIZE? We dont deserve it? Is Horford that important to be tied to Jason Collins and Zaza starting for years?
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
Sy.McGrady.Marvin.Benson.Pachulia
Hinrich/Sy – Collins (inj. reserve)
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
2:44 pm
Steve, I don’t buy the version of the story the way you told it (regarding Teague) but I won’t go there. It would appear that folk like you will have all kind of chances to watch players develop… Sy, Rolle, Benson and maybe Wanamaker. It is kind of like the time when we had Othella Hunter, RandMo, Jeremy Richardson and Thomas Gardner all at the same time.
I’ll have my red Kool-Aid and popcorn ready to watch and evaluate every dribble, pass, rebound and shot. Oh joy!
Mike
December 9th, 2011
2:45 pm
Houston is in tank mode, right now!!! Want to get lucky to get Drummond in the draft. Also, I think Orlando wont be trading D12 to LAL, they would trade it to the Hawks before LAL.
JDK
December 9th, 2011
2:45 pm
MC : The frustrating thing is that lots of teams are over the cap, and yet they seem to have no problem making big moves (see the Lakers nabbing Paul, veto notwithstanding). The Hawks certainly have the assets to make a big move – why can’t they show the creativity and/or cajones to do as other teams do?
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
2:45 pm
Rufus, I think Cuban voted against the CBA, I don’t think there was a vote for the CP3 trade.
Air Zaza
December 9th, 2011
2:46 pm
@ Jon Leuer #1 fan
Stop trolling
Rev in Tampa
December 9th, 2011
2:46 pm
The new labor agreement apparently states that the NBA will not test for marijuana in the off-season. I hadn’t heard that reported yet.
http://widget.newsinc.com/fullplayerwvars.html?wid=2333&cid=507&spid=23554188&freewheel=90046&sitesection=dailycaller_top
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
2:50 pm
RE: Yes, but I think if Josh is 30 lbs lighter and quicker he can still maneuver around Udonis. Do a semi-floater kind of shot in the lane or something. It would be somewhat of a mismatch I would think.
Wade would Guard Teague. I think Teague could wear the soon to be 30 year old, oft injured Wade out with his speed a little bit.
LeBron would Guard Joe Johnson – and this would probably be a tough matchup for Joe but its important not give LeBron a rest for the offensive end.
Battier would Guard Josh Smith – good for the Hawks, with 7′0 leuer and 6′8 Joe the shooting is their! Smith is on the baseline!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgNGfEmiibM
Haslem would Guard who? Probably Leuer – but Jon is outside and the PF is the TRAILER that opens up a pick your poison mentality. Either ignore the penetration and leave your teammates on a boat or help and suffer the 3 ball.
And Bosh would Guard Bogut. And with Bogut’s size…
OFFENSE
7′0 Bogut vs Bosh
7′0 Leuer vs Haslem
Josh Slim Smith vs 6′10 33 yo Battier
Joe Johnson vs Lebron
Teague vs Wade
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
2:55 pm
AJ,
The article
http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/33774024
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
2:57 pm
AJ,
“We just had a lockout, and one of the goals of the lockout was to say that small-market teams now have a chance to keep their players, and the rules were designed to give them that opportunity,” Cuban said. “So to all of a sudden have a league-owned team trade their best player, particularly after having gone out and sold a ton of tickets in that market, that’s not the kind of signal you want to send.”- Cuban
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
2:57 pm
Air Zaza Jon Leuer is a better big man and shooter than Marvin. Pry him from the Bucks thats all Im saying.
Bogut was the key to Milwaukee’s league leading defense. They were 4th out of 30 teams iirc.
We do that Horford trade and then we got shooting we got size we got depth. We got 2 rim protectors. Now We can beat the Heat, the Bulls and whomever wants to come out the West.
Even Sekou knows we’ve hit the skids with Horford. Jack of all trades master of the worst shot in basketball.
bigdave
December 9th, 2011
2:58 pm
i wonder what type money Gilber will be looking for on the open market since he was released..
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
2:59 pm
Should the Hawks sign Arenas?
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
2:59 pm
Name That Baby!
In the Native American Indian culture, (the real founders of America) leaving all others as immigrants and murdering thieves, (pardon the side bar) the father would name the new born by looking through the slit in the tent for a sign.
If he saw a white foot rabbit? The baby was named – White Foot. Likewise, if the father saw two bears clawing? He named the baby Bear – Claw. If he witnessed dancing stars? He named the infant – Dancing Star.
Here’s my point: When the ASKG were born? Someone must have looked out a Grady window and saw “8 dogs F’ng”, and not 8 spirited white guys in a group from Atlanta.
If we can blame anyone for approving that sale, look to David Stern. How can you not vet these 8 cash poor guys properly and discover that collectively between the 8 of them, they can’t scrape together a dollar for some luxury tax, to build a damn competitive and balanced roster for a huge market like Atlanta? (See TNT and NBA TV Studios)
We deserve better! We deserve at least a conversation about our team! When has any of the cowards come to the microphone, held a presser and talked directly to the fans – to explain WHY we can’t be a contender.
I just got a stupid email a minute ago telling me time is running out for great dibs on season tickets.
Ha! Go fix your damned team and get somebody in here I haven’t seen before! A bona fide HOFer a Super Damned Star! How ’bout that? Go suck on a raw egg! I’ll buy a single ticket when I’m good and damned ready – get off my titty!
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
2:59 pm
Magic waive Gilbert..
http://www.hoopsworld.com/magic-waive-arenas-via-amnesty/
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
3:01 pm
MC could you get someone to tally how many jumpers vs how many paint shots Al and Josh shoot.
And against whom, and if its small ball lineup. I dont think we’ll see the PLAYOFF SUCCESS big lineups.
Thanks MC, your #1 fan.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
3:04 pm
Gilbert Arenas waived… dont do it Sund.
SALVADOR
December 9th, 2011
3:04 pm
Is there a way we can get Samuel Dalembert?
I think he could help a lot at the center position….
Peter
December 9th, 2011
3:07 pm
Well when you have DUMB owners signing JJ to the MAX is the example, along with stupid draft picks by a moronic GM.Gee what could one expect ?
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
3:08 pm
Sacramento re-signs Marcus Thornton to a 5 year/$40 Million contract.
1.12 Points per Possession
1.10 Points Allowed per Possession
12.3% WinsShared/48 Last Season Post Trade
superiorblogman
December 9th, 2011
3:12 pm
I tried to stay with this team but if on opening night Marvin Williams is moonlighting as a NBA starting SF and Al Horford is moonlighting as a NBA starting C. I am officially done with the Hawks until those two things change. I am sorry but I can not stomach another year of a fake starting SF and C.
Just A Thought
December 9th, 2011
3:13 pm
“@ Jon Leuer #1 fan”
“Stop trolling”
Ha, he can’t help it. Motiejunas finally got tired of the stalking and called the cops. So he switched to Leuer.
When Leuer calls the cops, he’ll find another obscure 7 footer to drool over.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
3:15 pm
I tried to stay with this team but if on opening night Marvin Williams is moonlighting as a NBA starting SF and Al Horford is moonlighting as a NBA starting C. I am officially done with the Hawks until those two things change. I am sorry but I can not stomach another year of a fake starting SF and C.
===
superior? Well put. who will you support? Cant stomach the popular bandwagon teams. Not a lot of good basketball teams I can stomach.
Grandad
December 9th, 2011
3:17 pm
Simjr
[from last blog]
“offense wins games, defense wins championships”
-author unknown-
That was amended by Pat Head Summitt (bless her heart)
“offense sells tickets, Defense wins games,
Rebounding wins Championships” !
- Pat Summitt -
Michael
December 9th, 2011
3:18 pm
use the amnesty clause on JJ….frees up cap space
Grandad
December 9th, 2011
3:19 pm
My apologies as I have not read all posts today. [yet]
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
3:19 pm
Just A Thought
No I realized Josh Smith for center is a scenario where Hawks lose talent and still leaves you with Marvin Williams at the SF dingbat.
I saw another 7 foot Rim Protector and a 7 foot Perimeter player. Doing Hawks research and development for them.
If Horford cant get Bogut then his value is Thabeet and Motiejunas (aka fast Troy Murphy). How would the Hawks like that?
“Motiejunas sets defensive rebounding record
Euroleague – 1 day ago”
O'Brien
December 9th, 2011
3:20 pm
Will the Hawks carry 15 players on the roster this season? With the compressed schedule, I would assume they want as much depth as possible (even if its vet min depth).
As for the CBA, Cuban said he was one of 5 owners who voted against the CBA.