Atlanta Hawks: Capped out, left out
It’s the kind of questions I get often on Twitter: “Why don’t the Hawks pursue [insert big-name free agent]?” After I explain that they don’t have the cap space, I sometimes get the follow-up: Why don’t they trade [Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, some other player I don't like] and use that cap space?” And then I have to tell them that doesn’t work, either, because the Hawks are over the cap and have to take salary back in a trade.
The point here is, until the Hawks gain significant cap space, which they aren’t scheduled to do until 2013-14 unless the use the amnesty card, then they aren’t going to be involved with free agents who command more than the MLE. Shoot, they still may not be involved with MLE free agents until they retreat further from the luxury-tax line.
Sure, the Hawks can swing sign-and-trades (which usually is the next question I get after the two above) but those transactions are not easy. The player has to want to sign with the Hawks and then an acceptable deal has to be worked out between Atlanta and the trading partner. That’s a lot of “ifs” involved.
The Hawks made their big when they re-signed J.J. last summer. They had the choice of using him in a sign-and-trade and then making other moves to clear cap space and make a run at the big names everyone buzzes about. Rick Sund, an enthusiastic supporter of re-signing J.J., nonetheless did his due diligence and presented that option to ASG.
All parties decided to bring back J.J. at any cost. So, for now, they must hope that this group’s upper limit is not a six-game loss in the Eastern Conference semifinals.
The reason why a lack of cap flexibility is particularly problematic under the new CBA is explained by Mark Cuban in an email to Tim McMahon of ESPNDallas:
The reality is that in the new system, cap room will have far more value than it had in the past. I realize that everyone is all freaked out about how and where free agents and future free agents are going, but it’s not just about getting one guy.
We are not saving cap room in hope of that one super special free agent being there. It’s about being in the position to improve every year and possibly add some significant, younger players next year and in future years.
What I don’t think people understand is that once a team hits the tax level the ability to improve our team is reduced dramatically. In addition, your ability to make trades is reduced. So basically, if we made the move to keep everyone together with five-year deals, the team we have today is going to be the team we have for the next five years. If we were a young team it would be one thing. But we are not a young team.
The Hawks are not as old as the Mavs but neither do they have anything close to an MVP candidate or a ring. Perhaps that changes this season, or maybe it doesn’t happen until they gain some cap space and start over.
Etc.
- I think the Hawks will make an offer to Jamal. I don’t think it will match what he can get on the market.
- Both Jody Genessy of the Deseret News and Brian T. Smith at the Salt Lake Tribune report that Earl Watson still could re-sign with the Jazz even after they signed Jamaal Tinsley. Watson would be a good pickup for the Hawks because he has good size, is a very good defender and rebounder and has a good assist rate. He also has a high turnover rate and can’t shoot or score but, hey, there are reasons he might be had for the minimum.
- Update ProBasketballTalk says Watson is expected to sign with the Wizards. (H/T to blog commenter mountain_jim)
- Chris Tomasson tweets that power forward prospect Charles Garcia will be at camp with the Hawks. Here is his D-League profile and his DraftExpress.com file.
- Larry Coon and Marc Stein look at the so-called “B list” items that are part of the new CBA.
- You might have heard the league blocked a trade. The teams involved are appealing, according to Stein.
- The Hawks practice at 5 p.m. today. Us media types don’t get in until after 6. Follow me on Twitter for live updates and check back here later tonight for a blog post.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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469 comments Add your comment
northcyde
December 9th, 2011
1:01 pm
Like I said @ Al Horford. Dikembe Mutumbo is not walking through that door. So it is up to you to be the “big” man on this team. If you and Smith don’t change your mindset from “finesse” mode, to “battle” mode, this team may struggle big time this year. At that point, our only hope will be an All-nba type season from Joe Johnson and Jeff Teague playing like Stephen Curry.
Lol @ David Stern. That dude’s legacy is in the toilet now. People are trashing big time what he did last night.
O'Brien
December 9th, 2011
1:03 pm
I think the Hawks are only making an offer to Jamal because they know it will be less than what he is offered from other teams, so when he turns the Hawks down, ownership and mgmt can tell the fans…”We tried, but Jamal chose to sign somewhere else”.
The same way they interviewed Avery Johnson last offseason, knowing full well they were not going to pay him what he wanted. But they think it gives fans the impression that they are trying.
My opinion.
PMC
December 9th, 2011
1:03 pm
I mean, I just don’t see what they expect us to buy here? The Atlanta Hawks are not an exciting team. The organization is not particularly run well and has never been.
Why would I spend 80 bucks a night to watch these guys play? What’s in it for me?
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
1:04 pm
If we need other young guys to develop, I vote for Salim and Acie. That way, we get our back-up PG AND our bench shooter.
PMC
December 9th, 2011
1:04 pm
I mean seriously 7 years of Joe Johnson. Ok. Good for him getting wealthy, but what’s he ever going to win?
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
1:06 pm
PMC, Kiss-Cam!!!
O'Brien
December 9th, 2011
1:07 pm
northcyde,
Not only did David Stern block the trade, he also has not given a reason for doing so.
As for the Hawks, the entire team is too soft. How many hard fouls do we see the Hawks commit, how many layups and And Ones did they give up last year? The players are too soft, and LD lets them get away with it.
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
1:07 pm
Chicago would be crazy to trade a 7 footer(Asik) for a small.. Dont ya think?
DMB said a good GM would never trade a big for a small.. I co-sign……
darrell starks
December 9th, 2011
1:07 pm
Jeff, Joe,Josh,Leuer.Bogut
How good is Benson ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
O'Brien
December 9th, 2011
1:09 pm
From JA Adande on ESPN.com;
So many people wondered why the lockout was held in the first place if on the day it officially ended a glamour team added one of the most coveted players. They missed the point.
To say the lockout was enacted for the sake of competitive balance would be as inaccurate as saying the Civil War was fought to end slavery. The purpose of the Civil War was to restore the Union, and the purpose of the lockout was for the owners to make more money. .
Michael Cunningham
December 9th, 2011
1:09 pm
@O’Brien: “My opinion.”
A plausible one.
Michael Cunningham
December 9th, 2011
1:10 pm
@PMC: “Why would I spend 80 bucks a night to watch these guys play? What’s in it for me?”
this is going to be a tough question for them to answer if this is their team.
Tremaine
December 9th, 2011
1:12 pm
O’Brien
December 9th, 2011
1:03 pm
I think the Hawks are only making an offer to Jamal because they know it will be less than what he is offered from other teams, so when he turns the Hawks down, ownership and mgmt can tell the fans…”We tried, but Jamal chose to sign somewhere else”.
The same way they interviewed Avery Johnson last offseason, knowing full well they were not going to pay him what he wanted. But they think it gives fans the impression that they are trying.
My opinion.
CO-SIGN!
Rev in Tampa
December 9th, 2011
1:13 pm
Training camp hasn’t even opened and the season is over. Everyone, do yourselves a favor and keep your expectations low… very low. The only new storyline will be Teague at the point. Other than improved perimeter defense because of Teague (and absence of Jamal) and uptempo transitional game everything will remain the same – too few rebounds, too few free throws, too many jumpshots.
Expect more of those embarrassing blowouts like last year to Boston, Milwaukee, Los Angles, etc. Expect the rotation to shrink to eight players while everyone else languishes at the end of the bench. Expect Horford to sit out the rest of the first half everytime he gets two fouls. Expect Josh to keep shooting 3’s. Expect an lower win percentage than last year. Expect another frustrating exit from the playoffs – if we make it.
But there is a reasonably good reason to be optimistic – the season is shorted so our misery won’t be as prolonged.
All that being said, I’ll be here suffering along with everybody else because I’m a Hawks fan…
Tremaine
December 9th, 2011
1:15 pm
Maybe we can get Joe Johnson to give back the money he spent on his shoe closet to pick up a player or two.
Jeff.Joe.Josh.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
1:16 pm
Dunleavy is 6′9.5 with a 6′9 wingspan (same as JJ), inconsistent and injury prone. Can you say 1 dimensional! I want Jon Leuer, bring him from overseas you have a 21 year old Gugliotta shooter and are set for the next 10 years.
Leuer vs David Lee
December 9th, 2011
1:17 pm
Leuer vs David Lee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-9EfWfibJA
Mike
December 9th, 2011
1:18 pm
@PMC
I have the same feelings about that, Hawks has been stuck on the second round and they are too scared that breaking up the core because they fear that they wont get back to the second round. Overpay guys that doesnt deserve it and do nothing to get better. I swear that ASG is trying to have nuthin but empty seat in that arena. I cant see myself paying money to look at a team that is going to bow out around second round.
Earl T.
December 9th, 2011
1:18 pm
We are stuck in mediocrity for the next 3 years. Only way out of this is to hit on a draft pick unexpectedly. We will be drafting in that 15-20 range for next few years. I say tank it and go after davis from KU. Just a thought.
JJ
December 9th, 2011
1:18 pm
SMH…..this team has 35 wins written all over it. Just one bad decision after another……
darrell starks
December 9th, 2011
1:18 pm
Who is Wanamaker SMH ? why Sund not call Damien.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
JJ
December 9th, 2011
1:21 pm
ASG…..not only do they run an organization into the ground, but they think the fans of said organization are a bunch of mental midgets. So sick of these fools…..
Rev in Tampa
December 9th, 2011
1:21 pm
@Earl T. – “We are stuck in mediocrity for the next 3 years. Only way out of this is to hit on a draft pick unexpectedly.”
We hit on one of those draft picks last year and traded him away along with a future draft pick!
darrell starks
December 9th, 2011
1:22 pm
DAMIEN, T MAC, MARVIN, COLLINS
IS A SOLID BENCH
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
1:24 pm
Leuer vs David Lee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-9EfWfibJA
Oh Sh_t! I like what I saw on youtube ref Jon LEUER! Nice handles, behind the back crossover to the rim and dunk!! All NBA TiTio could not do that in his dreams…..lol
This guy looks to be a 7 footer….Got nice moves around the basket.. Smooth!!!! no pun! lol
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
1:27 pm
46-20 record.. 3rd or 4th seed…GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
mykhalc
December 9th, 2011
1:30 pm
at this point, any fan payin’ to see this ‘team’ has gotta be goin’ to see JT and Zaza…PERIOD!!! at this point, the ONLY thing i see this team gettin’ from Joe, Al, Josh, and Marvin is INDIFFERENCE in their play. this core is waaaaayyyyy passed the need of bein’ broken up. it’s really a shame that the SAASG have not found any sane and creative way of doin’ this. i’m bettin’ these cats do NOT even wanna play with each other now. it’s gonna be ’sad-ball’ in ATL this season…
hawks_4_life
December 9th, 2011
1:31 pm
MC,
What do you make of Charles Garcia personally.
ryan
December 9th, 2011
1:35 pm
I guess D12 to the Nets could happen i wish we had Russian billionaire .
steve brown
December 9th, 2011
1:38 pm
If Jamal goes bring in Iverson, I’d bet he can still score.
Another GM
December 9th, 2011
1:46 pm
So MC, the Hawks are going to let Jamal walk for nothing instead of doing a SNT to bring in players to help the team, because of going into the luxury tax??? Yep, thats a commitment to winning. After 36 years and several years of season tickets, Im done. I have better things to do than watch a half a$$ basketball organiztion.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
1:46 pm
RE: darrell starks
Benson is not a playmaker, is not comfortable/confident handling the ball in transition. Etc..
His wingspan measured up at 7′3.5″ others with that measurement…
Chris Webber but he was shorter and stockier at around 6′10 260
Chris Bosh…taller and a finesse shooter
Marvin Williams…smh a shooter who is to short and not heavy enough to capitalize on that length
Ike Diogu… MArvin’s height and tries to be a power player but has knee problems bcuz hes 6′8, 250
Benson looks like a skinny jump shooter in the halfcourt. Did not look to make plays or handle the ball in transition. Looks like a Chris Bosh type, he’ll be good for jumping into defenders and getting free throws on dives to the rim… Did not see much of His jumper in the overseas games They’re posted on youtube.
Thats why he got cut. He looked unimpressive and unagressive… One thing you can do if youre a bad halfcourt player is rebound and push the ball yourself, see Magic, see Horford. If you can just make him and the bench play defense and free flow then the vets could get him open easy shots and coax his development in that aspect along.
But as of now he’s a taller Solomon Jones. He’ll never be a defensive anchor C. But I hope he can become a garbage minutes version of Bosh/Taj Gibson PF in a defensive lineup very soon.
6′7 Sy, 6′8 Williams, 6′8 McGrady, 6′11 Benson, 6′11 Pachulia
DEFENSE! DEFENSE! DEFENSE!
Chant with me ATLANTA!
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 9th, 2011
1:50 pm
smh on realgm there is a wiretap saying Dwight’s FATHER would be the one to ask for a trade.
The Irony!
6′10″ Dwight Howard is Undersized (Olajuwon): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NmzOG7r_Mg
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
1:51 pm
Crack Babies!
Unfortunately for us, our Daddy smokes crack. So this December, we get sticks and stones for X-Mas. But then, we used to dat!
Paper … Scissors …. Rocks? Paper! (we lose)
Paper … Scissors …. Rocks? Scissors! (we lose)
Paper … Scissors …. Rocks? Rocks! (we lose)
No matter how you look at it?
Crack babies always (lose!)
———————
Here’s my point: based on MC’s report, we get NO cap room till 2013 – 2014, that’s when we shed Marvin, ZaZa and Kirk.
Marvin 7.5M
Kirk 8M
ZaZa 4.75M
__________
Total 20.25M
OK then what? Like Lamar lamented on twitter last night.
Who will be making the next wave of big decisions?
ASKG?
Sund?
IDK ’bout yawl – I’m scared of these people! LeBron threw the NBA into FULL plantation mode with his in your face DECISION. The masters don’t like it when the inmates are running the asylum! Not one bit.
Game Over! Collusion in full effect on that CP3 trade.
ole richie
December 9th, 2011
1:53 pm
kris humphries could have a monster year in atlanta. He’s out to prove that he’s more than just a tabloid headline. Hawks could take advantage of that.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 9th, 2011
1:59 pm
No Show!
CP3 a no show at camp today.
Lamar?
Pau?
Feelings hurt? Egos bruised? This proves the players are only human, they bleed, they cry – but, they can afford kleenex! So, no tears in my beer.
LOL! But still, I don’t like Ricoh Acts & collusion. Its a slave mentality at the highest level, just take the money out of this equation. It’s about dignity, freedom to move around and ultimately – respect.
mykhalc
December 9th, 2011
2:00 pm
i wonder if the SSASG even talk bball when they meet?
John
December 9th, 2011
2:02 pm
In all seriousness, Humphries would be a good signing but he will probably ask for too much.
Jump Shooter
December 9th, 2011
2:02 pm
Mike, why did Sund decide to overpay for JJ ? That’s the kinda sheet that gets people fired by hamstringing the team to make moves.
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
2:03 pm
I think a package of Teague, ZaZa, and Marvin (yes, poetic justice), would have more long term upside for the Hornets in acquiring Paul than 2 Bigs past their prime in Gasol and Odom.
Gasol and Odom are far better BB players than any of those 3 from the ATL. But the ATL 3 are younger, you get 3 instead of 2, and if you developed all 3 properly, you could have some solid long term gain.
Just sayin’… dreamin’ I guess really…
Jump Shooter
December 9th, 2011
2:04 pm
As for Stern declining the C.Paul trade ? I think its wrong for the commissioner to decide the fate of a team’s roster. So what if the NBA owns the Hornets ? Now CP3’s gonna leave the Hornets after the season and they get zilch in return…
O'Brien
December 9th, 2011
2:05 pm
So the Nets could end up with Nene. What will they do with Nene and Brook Lopez? Play Nene as a PF?
Since there is a rumor that the Nets met secretly with Dwight, they might be less likely to get Dwight due to possible tampering accusations (regardless of whether or not it really happened).
Terrell
December 9th, 2011
2:05 pm
I know it was a small sample, but we all saw how good this team played when Teague was allowed to be the PG and control the ball. Even if we get other players if Drew reverts back to what Woodson use to do, we are in trouble. The fact is that Teague is a true point guard whose only weakness was his jump shoot, which he said he has worked one. We all have seen what a healthy Joe Johnson gives us. Last year, he was not healthy at all. The problem with our team is that none of the starters have really had a defined role because we never had a defined style of play. If you let Teague play like he did in the playoffs, it opens up things for the other guys where they don’t always have to create their own shot.
Joe Johnson won’t have to hog the ball all the time. That was when we struggled. When we got in ruts he always tried to do it all himself so players just sat around and watch. Let Teague be the slasher and driver, defenses have to react to him and collaspe and that leaves Williams and Johnson open on the wings. This produces easy baskets for team as well as closer baskets to the rim for Smith and Horford, who if they do their jobs will be ready for the put-backs or passes from Teague.
Look, we all would like to get a Howard or a Chris Paul, but those guys would like to have players to play with, and honestly it would take us giving up some of our best assests to get them and they probably won’t even stay after this season. Dwight on this current team could make us contenders, Paul on this current team could make us contenders, but we would likely lose Horford or Smith or Teague so our only other weapon would be Joe Johnson. That doesn’t make us contenders. Some of the other guys that you all want are role bench players. They play better in spurts off the bench. Not everybody can translte bench production and be a starter. Look at Gortat, he is a great #2 center who plays well off the bench, but he is not a #1 center. Same as that center from the Bulls. He gave us fits as a sub not as a full time starter.
Jump Shooter
December 9th, 2011
2:05 pm
Retarded moves like drafting Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and overpaying Joe Johnson for 10 years deserves decapitation…
O'Brien
December 9th, 2011
2:06 pm
Steve W,
Just sayin’… dreamin’ I guess really….
Wake up
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
2:08 pm
Yep, Kris Humphries would be a perfect fit on this team, just what we need. So of course we won’t get him.
D Wilkens says we are his dream team. Wants to play here. Begs. Hustles. Withstands LD’s terrible non-usage of him even when it’s clear he would benefit the team. So of course we blow him off.
We play Bibby and Jamal when it’s obvious they can’t stop D Rose, or anybody else for that matter. Of course we let the answer rot on the bench in Jeff Teague.
This is the ATL Hawks, haven’t we learned that yet?
Remember those Headlines on this blog last season: “Hawks Not for Sale”? Liars. Don’t trust ASG at all.
Terrell
December 9th, 2011
2:08 pm
SteveW
The Hornets were getting Odom, Luis Scola, Kevin Martin, and Gortan Drojavich and a first round pick. Thats far better than what we could’ve offered. It was a 3 team trade that include the rockets
Jump Shooter
December 9th, 2011
2:08 pm
Bring in Bill Russell. He’s better at 76 years-old than Zaza.
Macaroni Tony
December 9th, 2011
2:09 pm
Brad Wanamaker 2010 Highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ghV0bbQDYo
Jump Shooter
December 9th, 2011
2:09 pm
Yeah Steve W, and maybe Humphries can get back together with K.Kardashian and we’d have eye candy in the stands…