Atlanta Hawks: Camp roster rounds into shape
Zaza and Magnum Rolle were at Philips today. Twin is expected to re-sign with the Hawks tomorrow. Earl Watson told Jody Genessy of the Deseret News he hasn’t decided where he will sign.
So, assuming T-Mac and Twin follow through and sign with the Hawks and Watson ends up picking Atlanta, this is what the team depth chart would look like for the start of camp (not counting Kirk Hinrich):
PG–Jeff Teague/Earl Watson/Pape Sy
SG–Joe Johnson/Tracy McGrady/Brad Wanamaker
SF–Marvin Williams/Tracy McGrady
PF–Josh Smith/Magnum Rolle
C–Al Horford/Zaza Pachulia/Jason Collins/Keith Benson
That’s 14 players on the roster, 10 of whom have guaranteed contracts.
Still don’t see any of the “knock-down 3-point shooters” L.D. said he wants. Twin, when deployed in favorable matchups, ended up providing some of the defensive toughness L.D. is seeking and T-Mac is a pretty good defender and very good rebounder: According to Hoopdata, last season he was seventh in defensive rebound rate among shooting guards who played at least 15 minutes.
But so far it looks like the Hawks haven’t addressed two of their main concerns. Stay tuned.
Etc.
- I don’t think there will be a sign-and-trade with Chicago for Jamal. The Hawks aren’t looking to take on the kind of salary the matching rules require and the Bulls are focused on using their MLE to sign a free agent.
- Zaza said he’s fully recovered from the left calf injury he suffered during FIBA play and aggravated while playing in Turkey.
- It looks like Damien is not in the Hawks’ plans.
- Word is Hinrich will be at camp tomorrow to continue his rehab.
- Rob Mahoney, writing for ProBasketballTalk, endorses the T-Mac signing: “For the league minimum, this is very likely the best the Hawks could possibly do.”
- AJC wise guy Jeff Schultz does not like a T-Mac-for-Jamal swap: “It’s a good sign if McGrady’s addition is meant only to add depth on the bench. It’s a bad sign if his signing is intended to soften the blow for the possible loss of Jamal Crawford.”
- Hawks blog legend Sekou predicts “this is the year the Hawks hit the skids.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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399 comments Add your comment
KevinM
December 9th, 2011
10:05 am
SteveW, I just don’t see what you are seeing. Have you see our playoff performances? Who is going to hit critical shots?
Who is going to dominate the glass? Other than Collins and Zaza, our guys don’t want to battle in the paint.
Yes, with D12 out of the conference, we may end up 2nd behind Miami now….should that happen.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
December 9th, 2011
10:06 am
I predict 40 wins and a #7 seed
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
10:06 am
Steve, you’re assuming Miami is done. What if they get Pryzbilla or Kwame or Dampier or Ratliff or Diop (who will be amnestied) or any other serviceable big man to foul-a-lot in late game situations?
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
10:07 am
@Simjr
Do I hear a little optimism in your posts?
KevinM
December 9th, 2011
10:09 am
Boston trying to improve, but not much so far…..if they lose Big Baby, they will be hurting inside.
Miami will get another big man just in case Eddy Curry is a train wreck..and he is.
Rev in Tampa
December 9th, 2011
10:09 am
I think the perimeter and rim defense that Brewer and Asik could have brought to the team would have accounted for a more solid and balanced team. I am VERY disappointed that this deal fell through. Are there any more S&T scenarios regarding JC1? Is there any way to jettison Hinrich and his salary if the Luxury Tax line cannot be crossed by the ASG?
Undoubtedly I am showing my ignorance and sounding amaturish but I’ll ask anyway: Could we simply trade Hinrich for draft picks so that we could remain under the tax while adding the pieces to our roster that would give us a chance to compete in the playoffs?
Furthermore, what in the heck was that trade exemption we got for Childress and will it ever benefit us in any meaningful way? Does it have an expiration date?
Ryan
December 9th, 2011
10:12 am
Why is everyone hating on Kirk so much? Kirk is a SOLID piece. I’m fine keeping Kirk around. Back-up PG AND SG. Doesn’t make mistakes and plays great defense. What is going to make the difference in the Hawks is having a much better Defense because of no Bibby or JC.
ProBasketballTalk: Mahoney: Hawks show uncharacteristic sensibility with signing of Tracy McGrady » JockSpin.com
December 9th, 2011
10:12 am
[...] Hinrich’s understudy. And trading Jamal Crawford for Ronnie Brewer, whether it comes to pass or not, is emphatically not a typical move for this [...]
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
10:15 am
Brandon Roy is RETIRING!
Ryan
December 9th, 2011
10:19 am
hate if for him, always enjoyed watching him play
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
10:21 am
If Brandon Roy is retiring, doesn’t this open up a S&T opportunity with Portland?
Ryan
December 9th, 2011
10:22 am
for who?
Rev in Tampa
December 9th, 2011
10:23 am
Ryan,
I don’t think anyone hates on Kirk on the blog execpt Superiorblogman (and maybe he has changed his mind since last season). The reality is that the ASG treats the Luxury Tax as hollowed ground upon which they may not step. I wish we could change their mind but it won’t happen.
So what are we to do? Leave Hinrich on the shelf while he heals and play most of the season with a weak bench and an unprotected rim. I wish we could keep Hinrich. Heck, I wish the S&T would have worked with Chicago. While I’m sitting on Santa’s lap I also wish Orlando would trade Howard to us for Marvin.
KevinM
December 9th, 2011
10:24 am
Roy taking the $$ and benefitting the team payroll…does that mean no amnesty and the team retains his rights?
Well, with this result, that is one draft pick could not have passed on. Does anyone miss Shellhead?
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
10:26 am
Either Marcus Camby or Raymond Felton.
Ryan
December 9th, 2011
10:26 am
I just dont see us getting fair value for Kirk and if ASG gets rid of his salary do we really expect them to do something SMART with the money? I think a S&T with JC was our best chance at a big man, because I dont think Marvin and Kirk are gonna return anything better than Eddy Curry. Lol
Melvin
December 9th, 2011
10:26 am
Woke up this morning with a smile still on my face b/c CP3 is not going to L.A….LOL
Ryan
December 9th, 2011
10:27 am
Ra’mon we are fine at the PG and Camby is 37. I’d rather not get anything back than take on either salary that would FURTHER restrict the Hawks.
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
10:27 am
Hawks Versus the Heat in the above scenario:
When the Heat have the ball:
Teague/Hinrich would be guarding DWade – Hinrich is known as a DWade stopper, and I think Teague with his speed could give DWade problems. But of course Wade could post Teague.
We could do that.
JJ would Guard LeBron – He can for short stretches Guard him about as well as anybody. JJ wants to be bigtime, so he tries very hard in these situations.
We could do that
Marvin would G Battier – He can if he doesn’t fall down
Josh would G Haslem or Bosh – He can do either. Probably Haslem, because I can’t see Al chasing Haslem.
So Al would G Bosh – he can do that.
So we can Guard them if properly motivated and coached at the end of games.
Can the Heat Guard us?
Wade would Guard Teague. I think Teague could wear the soon to be 30 year old, oft injured Wade out with his speed a little bit.
LeBron would Guard Marvin – and this would probably give LeBron a rest for the offensive end.
Battier would Guard JJ – Not good for the Hawks
Haslem would Guard who? Probably Josh – but Josh can take the oft injured, 31 year old Haslem anytime he wanted. Especially now that Josh has lost 30 lbs. I know Udonis is fierce, but he’s not 28 any more.
And Bosh would Guard Horford. And with Horford’s midrange, Bosh has to pick his poison – come out and contest it, and leave the good passer Horford to pass to cutters to the basket, with no inside help to contest, or let the best midrange shooter in the League open to drain shots.
The Hawks, with their athleticism, are uniquely suited to harass the Heat.
Especially if Larry turns into a good Coach sometime soon. But he did do the two lineup thing, which I feel was good. And the Collins on Dwight thing, also good. It’s his in game stuff that leaves you wondering…
J from the A
December 9th, 2011
10:30 am
Hasn’t Camby said before that if he is traded, he will retire. Kirk for Camby, force Camby’s retirement, and viola 9 mil in cap space magically appears. But I am not advocating for this. I mean if the Hawks wanted to dump Kirk for space why not just work out a deal with a team that is far enough under the cap that the Hawks would not have to take back any salaries?
KevinM
December 9th, 2011
10:30 am
We’re about as close a contender as Portland is, Roy or no Roy.
If Oden comes back, they have frontcourt depth. I like their balance of a roster. They have depth everywhere except SG and JC1 probably improves their chances.
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
10:35 am
I think the Childress exception is gone isn’t it, and all we have is the Jordan Crawford exception. I think that is correct.
KevinM
December 9th, 2011
10:35 am
I got my answer on Roy:
“John Hollinger: Medical retirement means Roy’s $$ would come off cap and tax one year from now. Explaining why Blazers didn’t amnesty him.”
Now, not sure they can afford JC1 unless a S&T….
tyger
December 9th, 2011
10:37 am
What’s fair to all the owners?
1. Only question is did the teams abide by the CBA?
2. Large markets more attractive than smaller markets, never going to change.
3. Yankees get any player they want, unless Boston, Philly or Chicago overpays to block them.
4. If other owners dont want Paul to Lakers, throw so much money at him that he wont go.
5. Thats how it works, you cant buy a Benz with Honda money.
KevinM
December 9th, 2011
10:37 am
Mark Cuban -”if we made the move to keep everyone together with 5-yr deals, the team we have today is going to be the team we have ”
Are you taking notes Sund? You could learn a thing or 2 from that quote.
Ryan
December 9th, 2011
10:37 am
I dont think we ever got an anwser on the Childress exception. It was supposed to expire on like July 1st, but there was a lock out so idk if we got an extension on it or not.
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
10:39 am
You know about Miami signing another Big – they didn’t play Dampier much later in the season and in the playoffs – he’s about done.
Theo – the same – about done
And the point still holds – you can only play 5 guys at the time. If you bring in Kwame, which would be great for the other team because he’s as likely to throw the ball to them as his own teammate, you still have to sit either Haslem the inspiration, or Battier the D beast. Because I don’t think you’ll sit one of the big 3 in crunch time.
I still say they will have match up problems in crunch time against some teams.
Ra'mon
December 9th, 2011
10:40 am
Camby is in the last year of his deal. And Felton is in the last season of his deal as well. So either way you would have their contracts coming off of the books at the end of the season, to go along with Kirk’s. I actually would consider a S&T of Jamal paired with Kirk to Portland for BOTH Felton and Camby. The reason why I would do this deal is because Kirk is going to miss essentially at least 20% of this season, if not more.
KevinM
December 9th, 2011
10:41 am
Ryan, I would normally be curious on the MLE rule, but Sund hasn’t used one yet….a couple of other comments Sund has given us:
“We will go as far as Joe takes us”
“We aren’t bringing in any elite FAs”
Those statements resonate with Sund’s actions today.
The Real Mandingo
December 9th, 2011
10:41 am
“…The Hawks have made significant changes to the core. They have jettisoned two players who cant guard ANYBODY in the NBA, Bibby and Crawford. To replace their production the Old Horse signed two players who are better BASKETBALL players than Crawford will ever be, Hinrich and T-Mac. These players play BOTH ENDS and know how to PASS AND GET TEAMMATES INVOLVED. These are BASKETBALL SKILLS that people who think Crawford’s volume scoring is good basketball will never understand.” – Buddy Grizzard
@Buddy Grizzard, vava74 and Grandmaster JeJe
For the 2009-2010 regular season, Aaron Jamal Crawford averaged 18.00ppg (as a reserve) and was SOY (Sixth-Man of the Year). What did Kirk Hinrich and Tracy McGrady do that (’09-’10) regular season? During his two seasons with the Hawks, Jamal Crawford has scored 20+ points (off the bench) in about 49 regular season games (32 in ‘09-’10 and 17 in ‘10-’11) out of about 155 regular season games played. The 155 games played to date (79 in ‘09-’10 and 76 in ‘10-’11) by Crawford over the past two regular shows a high level of durability and dependability in the Hawks’ lineup. You, Buddy Grizzard, need to research the number of regular season games played by both Hinrich and McGrady over the past two regular seasons and determine for yourself what their (Hinrich’s and McGrady’s) durability and dependability is. Crawford is already the best set-up man (passer) on the Hawks’ team for Al Horford on the pick and roll (pop) play/move; that’s probably one of the main reasons Al Horford wants Crawford re-signed along with the fact that he’s (Crawford) a good teammate. Jamal Crawford, the Hawks best three point shooter, made 282 three pointers (163 in ‘09-’10 and 119 in ‘10-’11) over the past two regular seasons with the Hawks, which led the franchise. How many three pointers did Tracy McGrady and Kirk Hinrich make over the past two regular seasons?
I almost forgot to mention that this past regular season (’10-11) Jamal Crawford scored 30+ points off the bench in three games (31 @ Sacramento, 36 @ Toronto and 34 vs. LAC). How many times did Hinrich and McGrady come off the bench to score 30+ points in a game this past regular season?
In 24 playoff appearances for the Hawks, Jamal Crawford scored 20+ points in ten (10) post-season games – that’s ten (10) playoff games off the bench! In addition, Crawford has 17+ points (off the bench) in 13 of 24 playoff appearances for the Hawks. Jamal Crawford, as I have mentioned in previous posts, scored 20+ points off the bench in four consecutive playoff games, which had not been accomplished since Kevin McHale performed this feat back in the 1991 playoffs for the Boston Celtics! That was 20 years ago!
Jamal Crawford has never started a (regular season or post-season) game for the Hawks but scores like a starter and scores better than most, if not all, starters for the Hawks!
Was Tracy McGrady a good acquisition for the Hawks to replace Jamal Crawford – HELL TO THE NO! Was Tracy McGrady a good acquisition for the Hawks to potentially replace Marvin Williams at small forward and later on package Marvin Williams, Josh Smith and another Hawk player for an athletic, rim-protecting big (man) – it could’ve been but I think it’s a little too late because it looks like Tyson Chandler is all but gone to the New York Knicks.
In conclusion, as much as you, Buddy Grizzard, and others on this blog may try to deny it, AARON JAMAL CRAWFORD HAS BEEN STRAIGHT BALLIN’ FOR THE HAWKS OVER THE PAST TWO SEASONS!
Melvin
December 9th, 2011
10:44 am
Ryan,
That Childress exception was expired the day the Hawks acquired it. They never had any intentions to use it besides saying they got compensation from trading him…
Simjr
December 9th, 2011
10:52 am
In Car news Mercedes Benz and Nissan have formed a partnership, so expect the luxury line of Nissan (Infinity) to step up their game big time….Next Gen G-Coupe is in the works and from what I’m hearing it’s going to be a beast using Mercedes engines.. Also AMG is working with Infinity on the next Gen Infinity M class…. “The Golden Age” of cars?….
Beautiful day in Atlanta!…..
Yea Rufus1, I’m trying dude…. lol
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
10:53 am
One other slight sliver of hope that the Heat won’t go 66-0 and sweep the playoffs – they may not even win the Championship. The other sliver of hope is:
Miller, Haslem, Battier, and DWade in January will all be 30+. Haslem is a walking medivac, same with Miller. DWade gets hurt alot because he’s a kamikaze – and he’s older now. Those nagging things will start catching up with him, especially in a compressed season. Even Battier may get worn down a little.
So maybe their not as invulnerable as they may appear.
And a team like Chicago that brings Noah, Boozer, Gibson, and Asik at you up front, Deng on the Wing ( I like that – catchy phrase), and a DRose relentlessly coming at you may be a good tonic for them also.
But if everybody stays healthy, I’ll admit, it doesn’t look good. But they may still have some chemistry issues by trying to trade Bosh or something. Who knows? That’s why they play the season.
O'Brien
December 9th, 2011
10:55 am
SteveW,
I agree with northcyde. If Houston makes this deal, they have something else up their sleeve (like a max offer to Marc Gasol).
KevinM,
Nets are way under the cap, so the salaries don’t have to match. They are willing to take back Hedo’s contract along with Howard, for Brook Lopez, 2 1st round picks, and whatever filler Orlando wants.
But I don’t think they have enough attractive pieces to get a deal done with Orlando.
O'Brien
December 9th, 2011
10:56 am
MC,
Will it be possible for you to ask Rick Sund what is the plan for the Childress’ exception?
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
11:00 am
McGrady did score 20+ 4 times last season, but I’m not sure if that was off the bench or starting. Unless McGrady comes in here and blows out a knee or something, I think he was about as good as we could get for the vet. min. Spending above that goes back to ASG.
The Real Mandingo
December 9th, 2011
11:00 am
@Buddy Grizzard, vava74 and Grandmaster JeJe
typos/mistakes from my above post:
“…The 155 games played to date (79 in ‘09-’10 and 76 in ‘10-’11) by Crawford over the past two regular [seasons] shows a high level of durability and dependability in the Hawks’ lineup…”
“…In addition, Crawford has [scored] 17+ points (off the bench) in 13 of 24 playoff appearances for the Hawks…”
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
11:01 am
Chalmers is confirmed to the Heat.
OB – Didn’t we lose the Childress exception, and now all we have is the JC2 TE? Double check, but I think that is correct.
SteveW
December 9th, 2011
11:03 am
OB – Thanks – must’ve missed that Northcyde post. Yes, now I could see getting Pau and Marc – that’s a good FC, and you don’t really need Scola in there with those two. That’s a championship caliber FC.
Blue Kid
December 9th, 2011
11:14 am
Just read the depth chart. Is this some type of joke or something?
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
11:16 am
Slim, I have 160k+ miles on my Infiniti… engine is just fine.
tyger, Hornets would pay CP3 same as Lakers. It isn’t about the money CP3 will make, he wants out because of the quality of his teammates in NO.
Rev, it would require that we trade Hinrich to a team that is far enough under the cap that all we need to take back is a draft pick.
Now Portland only has to worry about one set of bad knees. And they only have a year at risk with Oden. Which is also why Camby is likely untouchable.
EmirS.
December 9th, 2011
11:17 am
I thought you can’t trade an injured player?
Rufus1
December 9th, 2011
11:23 am
@The Real Mandingo
Why I won’t miss Jamal
Jamal gave up 5.3 more point per 100 possessions with Crawford on the court than when he was off the court, the worst differential on the team.
___________________________________________________________________________________
This is the 2nd game aginst the Bulls regular season
“Chicago’s offense: 23 points on 17 possessions
That works out to 135 points per 100 possessions. The league’s best offense typically scores about 114 points per 100 possessions. In other words, Chicago did rather nicely.
• Rose’s stats: 4-of-8, eight points, three assists, zero turnovers
So on all the rest of Chicago’s possessions, including fast-breaks, Rose shot 6-of-19, dished out seven assists and committed all eight of his turnovers.”- Bret LaGree
___________________________________________________________________________________
“I almost forgot to mention that this past regular season (’10-11) Jamal Crawford scored 30+ points off the bench in three games (31 @ Sacramento, 36 @ Toronto and 34 vs. LAC).”- Mandigo
All last second wins and their average guards were having career days.
Basketball is played on both end of the floor..Offense and defense.
PS. I don’t blame Jamal..I blame the coaches for the way they used him.
The Real Mandingo
December 9th, 2011
11:24 am
@Buddy Grizzard, vava74 and Grandmaster JeJe
Correction: I believe Jamal Crawford played in 23 playoff games for the Hawks as opposed to 24.
Simjr
December 9th, 2011
11:27 am
“Defense wins Championships” unknown author
We wont miss Jamal that much…
Slimjr
December 9th, 2011
11:29 am
tell us what you think?
Need a cup of Java…
ole richie
December 9th, 2011
11:45 am
I think the hawks should take a look at Kris Humphries. He will be out to prove that he is a basketball player and not just tabloid drama. He could have a big season.
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2011
11:46 am
Emir, you can trade an injured player if the receiving team accepts him in that condition. Hawks accepted Hinrich last year when he was still injured. Years ago, Hawks traded for Terrell Brandon despite knowing that his career was over due to a lingering injury.
Michael Cunningham
December 9th, 2011
11:57 am
new blog is posted. shutting down this thread.