Atlanta Hawks: Afternoon notes

1st!

Twitter.com/Fullspeed_music

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MC, Broussard and Hollinger have both said that CP could actually be traded to Atlanta. I realize its unlikely but the fact that ESPN is mentioning us makes me feel at least hopeful. Have you heard anything about that?

The best scenario for me would be Al, Hinrich, Horford, and Teague for CP and Okafor.

Your starting lineup then looks like:
CP
JJ
Smoove
(who’d play 4? Free Agent?)
Okafor

sounds good to me.

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MC- When you say “Its true, Josh is still unhappy”, what is the source of this? He told you this?

Can you expand on why he is unhappy?

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Bye Josh

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MC, what does team chemistry have to do with anything? Isn’t it all about athleticism and basketball skills? Basically what happens from the neck down? Why are you discussing what happens from the neck up? Just add athletic and skilled players and let’s not worry about issues like chemistry, role or balance. Come on, man.

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Keep Josh, Jettison All NBA Alisha…..Make it so!

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Josh is right, All NBA gets a free card when it comes to his poor play…

Josh must be burning up about that plus this bum has been selected to two Allstar games???????

Hugh??????????

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Sounds like the griping of an 8th grader to me.

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If we get Howard, what does that do to Marvin? I thought we’re resigning Damien?

What’s Going On…?

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Love JH if he can just stay healthy..A legit #3 who can score the ball from an assortment of angles,even knows how to use glass! Go figure? A bonifide scorer at 6′7″….Decent defender as well…

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MC,

No worries about dashing my hopes. They aren’t that high to begin with I just thought I’d see what you think about our names being mentioned. All I can do is hope at this point. We have the pieces to trade for him and surround him if he comes.

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Marvin could back up Howard…Great!

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Hollinger is just writing his opinion of a potential deal. This would be like the Decision thing.

Saying
Chicago has 40% chance at Lebron
Hawks have 0% chance at resigning Joe
Miami has 10% chance at Lebron
Cleveland has a 70% chance at Lebron

It’s stuff wrote just to kill time. ESPN is utter garbage nowadays.

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Have fun at UGA-Cincy game tonight. I been to quite a few UGA hoops games, the conference games are great.

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AJ,

And Josh is one of our captains too. Surely, that will make a difference as to how he carries himself…

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MC

What’s the culture like around the organization?

I heard D. Rose say the Bull are looking to win it all.

I heard Bosh say the Heat want to win it all.

I heard the Melo & Amare talk about winning it all this year.

Are the leader for the Hawks JJ, Josh, and Al, even putting the expectations out there for this to be a championship team?

How is it that the Bulls have jumped us in the championship expectation?

The Hawks have just as much talent as the Bulls, but yet the same expectations are not place on the Hawks.

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Geemack,

The Hawks may have just as much talent as the bulls, but way worse coaching. Smith kind of addressed this in the previous article saying he thinks they can go deep in the playoffs.

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‘A championship team needs someone who can:
A) protect the rim defensively and
B) an elite shot-creator offensively.
Occasionally, in the case of someone like Tim Duncan, one player can fill both roles.

However, as great as Dwight Howard is, he’s unlikely to ever be as polished offensively as Duncan. He needs someone who can create shots when he’s matched up against elite front-lines. Unfortunately, the Orlando Magic, over the cap and without any young players likely to develop into All-Stars or any significant trade assets besides Howard, don’t really have the means of acquiring one.”

elite shot-creator offensively | Joe Johnson
{elite} shot-creator offensively | Jeff Teague (I’d stop short of elite unless he is consistently good)
protect the rim defensively | Josh Smith
protect the rim defensively | Andrew Bogut

I don’t see what championship team would have won with Al Horford. He holds position but is not a rim protector. And he sets picks more than Josh but is too slow to ever roll.
====

perimeter: Dirk Nowitzki | Jason Terry | Jason Kidd
inside: Shawn Marion | Tyson Chandler

perimeter: Joe Johnson| Jeff Teague| Jon Leuer
inside: slimmer Josh Smith | Andrew Bogut

perimeter: Kobe Bryant | Ron Artest | Derek Fisher
inside: Pau Gasol | Andrew Bynum

perimeter: Paul Pierce | Ray Allen | Rajon Rondo
inside: Kevin Garnett | Kendrick Perkins

This is the only type of trade you can get rid of Horford. A superstar for 1 position or a 2 for 1 with 2 guys better than Marvin and Collins. One player has to be a shooter. And please no broken down surgically reconstructed shooters like Memo Okur.

Thats like a 2 year window for winning a title. AT BEST

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@DSC

haha, it was a typo. I meant to say that Okafor would play next to a PF who can finally play great defense and Horford does not have to play center anymore. Both struggle defending the same type of centers regardless.

I understand why people like Smith with CP3 but lobs are only a part of CP3 game. His biggest part of his game is not Smith’s strength or even in his skillset. I see it like Al Jefferson. Al Jefferson is better than Carlos Boozer. He is a better scorer and both are below average defenders. Boozer is a PnR PF and Jefferson is a back to basket PF. When Utah let Boozer go and got Jefferson, even though Jefferson was better and Deron is an excellent playmaker, it did not work. Why?

Because Jefferson doesn’t use movement on offense to get points. He gets his in the paint of shooting spot up jumpers. Even with Deron, he did not improve him his form in Utah. Boozer greatly improved with Deron. Why? Boozer main skill is movement. Even though Boozer is not all that athletic, has average speed, and is not that strong, he has great movement, understands the PnR and how to use his body and when to use it for picks. That worked greatly with Deron. Because of that, Boozer played at an All Star level and was looked upon as one of the best PF’s in the NBA.

When he went to Chicago with a scoring PG in Rose. Boozer seemed almost like a new player and it wasn’t for the better either. He just doesn’t fit with Rose.

Now Josh Smith is full court type player. He is best when he is not in a half court setting. In fact, he actually a prone to mistakes in a half court setting because of his decision making skills, BBiq, and what not. Playing with Deron will not help Smith a lot. He would be slightly better because of Deron vision but he wouldn’t be much better. Horford would be extremely better with CP3 not to mention he would be better if Atlanta didn’t have so many weapons on offense. Smith, Johnson, and Crawford is a ton of talent in terms of scoring. And we aren’t Golden State so we only have so many touches and shots to go around. Just a point for emphasis.

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DSC, the Hawks have more talent than the Bulls.However, there talent doesn’t compliment each other as well as Chicago! Come to think of it though, I’d rather have Boozer over Horford.

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ASG trying to sucker you folks in again. The chances that they spend into the luxury tax and the chances of a big trade that brings a “superstar” here are about the same… almost no chance in hell.

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I feel you DSC. CP3 really isn’t the fast break type of PG. Now who would be perfect with Smith: Steve Nash

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Correction…DSC

I wouldn’t do that deal.

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which one? The one Air Zaza suggested or the one I suggested earlier? Air Zaza’s might be better, except I’d prefer that Zaza not be involved in a trade because I think he is a perfect back up center.

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Zaza just has a thousand times more value to Marvin. Marvin isn’t a trade piece that will net us anything till he proves himself worthy again. I would hate to lose Zaza but hey, life goes on.

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So Josh Smith thinks none of his teammates get criticized as much as he does, eh? Yep, time for him to go. Talent or not, there is no use having a guy around who feels that the organization and the fans don’t appreciate him, no matter how much he’s paid.

He’s going to continue to draw criticism as long as he fails to rebound well in games where he should be dominating, fails to hit a good percentage of the jumpshots he so dearly loves, and fails to be consistent from night to night on either side of the court.

Guess what, Josh? You’ll get that criticism elsewhere, too. But nevermind that. Push for a trade. Because obviously those cheers on every single play you’ve dominated at the rim were really boos.

Oh wait…I thought you didn’t hear the boos every time you pulled up for a 30-footer when the lane was wide open? So….then WTF are you whining about?

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There was a time when I thought Iverson in the ATL was a bad idea because of chemistry. Well, seems our chemistry is screwed anyway, so lets just get butts in the seats since that’s the ASG’s bottom line anyway….right?

What chemistry? Uncle Larry (copyright, ASTRO JOE) can’t control ish anyhow, so what’s the big deal?

Funny how now that Hinrich has surgery, folks want Jordan Crawford back. LOL. Well that was a well and truly done deal for a one-time playoff thing, hate to tell you. Made sense in the moment, depending on how Teague developed. For the long term? Well, you know the story…there IS no long term here.

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Perhaps because they have an MVP? Do you see any MVP candidates on the Hawks?

I don’t think we have nearly the quality role players that the Bulls have. I’ll politely disagree that we have as much talent as they do. Not even close IMHO.

That and beating us in the playoffs last season. Could NOT have said it better myself….

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Dang wish Georgia had another Professional Basketball team to root for…..

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I hear Ya Bro!!!!

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@Mike

That is the only trade worth making for CP3, if we expect him to resign…

Something no one is talking about…Sterns’ need to uphold the idea of competitive balance and the money CP3 will lose going to the Knicks as a free agent…

CP3 will lose between 20 and 44mil and that is alot to think about.

In the mind of Stern the Hawks would be 3rd on the list for CP3…Behind Magic(paring with another star) and the Warriors(4th largest TV market)

Why the Hawks
1) Great story…getting a 2nd bite at the apple
2) 7th largest TV market
3) Great NBA fans
4) Very good team

I am a “glass half full” kind of guy.

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Don’t trade players for a one-year rental. (Paul) Please. Only trade if it includes signing to new deal.

Remember all the ex-Braves in the World Series with Texas this year?

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Josh Smith for Lamar Odom… 1 to 1

Josh 12.5mil and Lamar 8.9mil- I think the new trade numbers are 140% + 100,00

I think this trade would benefit both teams.

LA gets the player D12 wants to play with.

ATL get a 6′11 play making sf/pf to replace Josh at a cheaper rate.

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Yea Josh Howard would be a good pick up if he is healthy. He was the guy I wanted the Hawks to draft years ago but they chose Diaw instead. Like many Hawks draft nights, I was baffled and upset with the choice.

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I think that we can outeclipe of what Clippers or OKC can do, sure it isnt High Draft picks but they are ready to go Vets that been in the playoff and so much more, besides that Minny #1 pick will backfire anyway.

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Steven A.,

You do know J.R. Smith signed a no opt-out clause in China, right? You want be seeing him in the NBA this year, dude.

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Its quite clear that is a pro horford press and this is a pro josh city. So lets just do this.

vote yes for Josh, or Yes for Horford

No trick wording. Pick one and trade the other.

Let the fans decide!

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http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/06/21/al-horford-for-superman-should-the-hawks-make-that-offer/

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Here are 3 pieces of information I want EVERY person here to realize every time they think about our chances of contending:

1) Sund is a pathetic GM who has accomplished nothing. The guy drafted SWIFT, PETRO, AND SENE 3 CONSECUTIVE YEARS WITH HIGH DRAFT PICKS. Not one person here can name ONE thing any of these 3 guys have accomplished in this league (because there is nothing). His anemic, pathetic, and deplorable track record as GM has carried over into this franchise, on which he has NOT made one move to this core which IT IS OBVIOUS HAS REACHED ITS CEILING. TRADE JOSH SMITH ALREADY. TRADE HIM FOR AL JEFFERSON OR MILLSAP. TRADE HIM FOR DANNY GRANGER. PACKAGE HIM FOR CHRIS PAUL. YOU ARE NOT A GENIUS LIKE YOU CLAIM. YOU’RE AN ARROGANT INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING IN THIS LEAGUE. You traded for Hinrich, which I didn’t think was a bad move – except for the fact that you and your incompetent ownership group gave up like 8 PLAYERS IN THE TRADE. Now we have nothing to show for the trade because this pathetic season is like 4 months like now and Hinrich is mysteriously out til the end of February (although we heard it’d be til the end of December, THEN it was the end of January).

2) ASG – Where is the money at? You have sold picks, you NEVER use the MLE, you have trade exceptions (Childress). You talk about going into the Luxury Tax if the right player is available. This is your cop-out in order to not do anything. WTF is wrong with you guys? How do you sell the team one second, then claim it’s not for sale. Pathetic. I am not hating on the Joe Johnson move because it was mandatory we do it in order to stay a top 5 team in the East (otherwise we wouldn’t have been able to sign anyone because we’d have been over the cap). However, you guys haven’t even made one effort to get a center. All you guys and Rick Stunk know is that Cheeseburger Collins can slow down Dwight. That is the ONLY thing you have done right.

We will come back this year with the same GD core and bench players. The ONLY reason Teague is gonna get minutes is because Hinrich is out.

3) ASG IF YOU SOLD THE THRASHERS WHY NOT INVEST MORE MONEY IN THE HAWKS? As I said before, the exact same BS this year. No Luxury Tax, same core, fail in the 2nd round

FIRE SUND
FIRE ASG
FIRE LD

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Word on street Superman want come home, sources mouth lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bring him ASG let forget about CP3 and think about paring Josh with his buddy superman.
Josh is a competitive who wants a ring worst than any body on the team, but he must understand everybody is criticize from ball boy to security guard that’s just life, so where ever he go it could be worst than his current stay so brother Josh just be bless, and let’s win a championship.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3dnazf4

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Offer Smoove and Hinrich for the Best Player Available, regardless of position

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Najeh,

Great minds…etc., etc.

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That’s just what drives me crazy with Josh Smith. He simply does not get it. His shot selection is just brutal. The fact that he does not realize that is so frustrating.

His best season with the Hawks was the 2009-2010 season, when he took a very limited amount of 3’s. He should have been an All Star that season. He took a giant step backwards last season when he started jacking 3’s at the worst possible moments.

He’s got all the tools. All of them! But, I’m convinced he will never get the game mentally. Shame. He is a poster child for why guys should go to college (a college without Mike Davis as the head coach, that is). Put Josh in a time machine and make him 18 again. Place him with Coach K or Izzo for a year or two. He would have have been so much better off.

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Make us wish the Hawks had a owner like Arthur Blank that actually care of this team.

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Smith does get it. His shot selection? Who else do you want shooting shots? You told Johnson to cool it down and share the ball. But gave him $120 million to share it with. Teague can only shoot so many layups and lacks range and confidence. But still Drew/Sund/ASG sat Teague on the bench, for 50 games over MIKE BIBBY.

Teague and Joe can only shoot so much. Who is supposed to create their own shot next? Marvin? Jason Collins? How many times do you need to see Al Horford isolate or (try to) play inside to know why he defers and likes to pick and pop?

Smith is not taking shots from Kobe Bryant or Kareem people. He’s the 3rd option on a sucky team thats the butte of NBA jokes.

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*choose

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Limitations. Don’t blame it on Blake Griffin. I can count at least 3 times Horford got injured taking the ball to the basket.

If you don’t want Smith behind the arc then get someone who’s more dynamic there to take shots from Smith:
Al Horford, Damien Wilkins, Marvin Williams, Jason Collins, Zaza Pachulia

these are all the guys he was taking perimeter shots away from with his “bad shot selection” from last season.

If you want Smith to give up more shots then get a more dynamic player than him. You dont decide to give the ball to Horford and watch him do his diseased jab fakes or play SMALL BALL lineups and go iso with Damien Wilkins before you give shots to Josh Smith.

If you play small ball Paul Pierce or Lebron or Durant or Granger better damn well be next to Josh Smith. You give those guys the ball before Smith and complain if he shoots from outside.

Dont complain when next in line is Marvin Williams and Damien Wilkins. Or maybe pass it to the ghost of Josh Childress and Maurice Evans.

Small Ball Hawks ftw

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http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3nq8yg5

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Why would any trade ever trade a legit 7 foot center (albeit injury-prone) for a 6″9 immature tweener?

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IF NO TRADES 2011 ATLANTA HAWKS

STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, ZAZA

BENCH HINRICH, DAMIEN, JOSH HOWARD, MARVIN, COLLINS.

RESERVE PAPE, BENSON
im okay with this team

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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JeJe, the Clippers trade frees up cap space beyond this year. Kaman is on a twelve million dollar expiring contract.

As far as your next question, why were they close to swapping Kaman for Iggy’s huge contract?

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Back to my latest mantra, “trade them when their value is high”, let’s see what a trimmed down Josh can do with Teague running a more uptempo pace before we consider trading him. What many of us decided not to discuss last season was Josh’s diminished explosiveness. If the knees were an issue (along with maybe some unneeded poundage), then let’s see what happens in the first few months of this season. Here’s hoping that between Josh and Marvin, that one of them gets other teams excited and we get back a little more on the dollar than we normally would.

Of course, that assumes that Josh doesn’t go all pouty mouth on us.

Big Ray is BACK! Cool!!!

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the Clippers Kaman idea has been bounced around a lot.
Clippers don’t like the idea of Blake Griffin and Josh Smith together in the halfcourt. Not enough spacing.
….

Also, Michael Cunningham does anyone know if Smith, like Horford, has said in the past, he prefers a certain position?

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@Grandmaster Jeje lol
LAL has not been offered Dwight Howard for Bynum. They probably have not reached out to Otis Smith because they dont want to appear desperate.

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*has

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If you dont want to see Smoove behind the ach put him back at this natural power forward position and let Al star at power forward on another team. This city loves Josh Smith. The Players love Josh Smith and the Marketers love Josh Smith.

Seen any AL Horford commercials lately? Ever?

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You would think that Al would have better chose his words than to demand that he be given the power forward position, with out thinking about that would move josh to the perimeter and out of his game, thus weakening our defense. My hope is that Al will adjust his attitude and man up and fight to defend the center spot. He doesnt come across to me as a team player. Rather selfish in fact.

Has he showed up to to practice yet? What kind of shape is this guy in? Is he going to help us this year or Whine about what position he plays?

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Amen Rev…..Teague may be the answer.

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Anyone else gets to scrolling when this guy pops up?

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Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut

Good answer!

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I think Dwight Howard is a much bigger need than Paul the Hawks have been in need of a big body like for ever i would go over the tax for Howard .

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ALL NBA ALISHA KEYS has a weak game come playoff time…Package this Overrated Allstar asap!

Oh thats right Sund is on vacation for the rest of the season….lol

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Alisha for Chuck Hayes!

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“I suspect we missed the boat on Horford’s trade peak. We drank our own kool-aid on his potential.

And did not actual use video of him trying to score against elite players or measurements to see if he fell in that elite range.
We drank our own Kool-aid.”

Agreed, that was some strong Koo-aid drank down here in these woods! lol

Three sorry GM’s in a row can do more damage then good. Thats for sure…..This team should have been one of the elites already..But it cant even sniff it…

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Teague for President….

Teague will change the future for the Hawks. He will make the Hawks contenders, because he makes our offense dynamic, he will make our defense much better and make our team more efficient….. Teague will better than Steph Curry this year and he will carry us to the ECF..

Trade Josh for Odom- He will flourish in LD’s offense because he can hit those jumper that Josh took last year…This will force teams to guard all 5 players on the floor….++++++ Isn’t he what we wanted Josh to be.

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“Loophole could get Chris Paul to N.Y.
2011-12 Season, Collective Bargaining Agreement, Free agents | Comments
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Chris Paul, a potential 2012 free agent, has reportedly asked to be traded to New York. (Derick E. Hingle/US PRESSWIRE)

The NBA was open about its goal of restricting the ability of superstars to move between teams, even if neither side in the lockout negotiations seriously considered the kind of dramatic changes that would accomplish that goal — an NFL-style franchise tag (a non-starter for the union), unlimited maximum salaries for individual players and a true hard salary cap. What resulted instead was a compromise atop a compromise: an adjustment to the old Larry Bird Rights system, which allowed teams to offer their own free agents more money, bigger raises and longer contracts than rival suitors.

Those tweaks matter, and they’ll matter more in 2013-14, when some of the harsher provisions of the new CBA go into effect. The league made Carmelo Anthony-style extend-and-trade deals more awkward mechanically for the teams involved and less lucrative for the star seeking a new home. The league did the same with sign-and-trade transactions, and it generally increased the gap between what incumbent teams can offer free agents and what the other 29 teams can offer. The general goal is to force star players into a choice: Stay with your own team or forfeit some money, possibly something like $10 million over a five-year period. Possibly more.

And yet, Chris Paul’s agent has informed New Orleans that he will not re-sign there, that he will decline his player option at the end of next summer, and that he would like the Hornets in the meantime to trade him to the Knicks, according to Yahoo! Sports. The Knicks do not have valuable trade assets, unless you are high on cap relief (Chauncey Billups’ expiring deal) and a rookie who has not played one NBA game (Iman Shumpert). Even so, if the Hornets feel backed into a corner, they could work an extend-and-trade in which Paul would take a financial haircut. And if Paul is still a Hornet when he enters free agency, the Knicks will not have the money to sign him to a maximum-level contract – either the five-year, $100 million he could receive with New Orleans, or the four-year, $74 million deal he could get from another team with room for a max deal.But Paul could still force his way to New York and secure that five-year, $100 million contract, according to a draft of the league’s new CBA and a few cap experts I consulted. How? The steps:

• Force the Hornets to trade him to the Knicks without signing a contract extension in the process. This is the tricky part. The Hornets don’t have to trade Paul, and if they decide to, they don’t have to trade him to New York. Other teams have better assets, and Paul will be counting on those teams to bow out of the bidding if they think he will not re-sign there. Does this sound familiar?

• If the Hornets eventually surrender and deal him to New York, Paul’s Bird Rights go with him. He must then become a free agent, either by declining his player option for 2012-13, or accepting that option, playing that season and becoming a free agent in the summer of 2013. By entering free agency as a Knick, Paul would escape the limitations in years and money that would come with engaging in a Carmelo-type extend-and-trade deal under this new collective bargaining agreement.

• The last step is easy: Sign a five-year, $100 million extension with New York. The Knicks would have his Bird Rights, so they could exceed the cap as much as they wish to retain Paul.

This is the superstar-movement loophole the league could not close. In theory, this series of steps is difficult to pull, because teams would be hesitant to acquire a superstar and then watch that superstar enter into free agency; this is why teams prefer the certainty of extend-and-trades, and why the league threw some obstacles onto that path. But the uncertainty of free agency vanishes if Paul tells the Knicks, “Don’t worry, I guarantee I will re-sign with you if you trade for me, keep Melo and Amar’e and allow me to slip into free agency for a token minute.”

And even there, some tiny potential for uncertainty exists. Once a player is a true blue free agent, a team with cap room can theoretically make a pitch. Perhaps the superstar will grow unhappy with the new team, or one key teammate will get injured, or another superstar will get traded in the interim to a city Chris Paul really loves — and a team that has maximum-level cap room.

All unlikely, which is why the smart money is on Paul ending up where he wants. You cannot legislate market appeal out of the NBA — or friendships, or free will, or smart cap management, or beaches or whatever else. Not without a dramatic rule change that would really restrict superstar movement.

People will judge Paul for this, and if the Yahoo! report is true, it’s certainly disingenuous for him to put on the “my heart is in New Orleans” public face one day and have his agent tell the Hornets goodbye the next. But the Hornets got six prime seasons out of Paul, just as the Cavaliers got seven out of LeBron James, and the Magic seven (and counting) from Dwight Howard. The combination of the draft, rookie contracts and extension rules for young players gives the teams lucky enough to draft a superstar plenty of time to win and convince that player to stay forever. The Spurs managed it with Tim Duncan, and the Thunder appear to have done so with Kevin Durant.”

If CP3 wants New York, he’s going to play in New York and become the next Walt Clyde Frazier!

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Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut (might be possible if we’re aggressive)

I don’t see how anyone is “forced” to guard Marvin or Jason Collins. Do you really want to give the Lakers a 26yo Smith for 31 yo Odom.

Joe.Jeff.Marvin.Odom.Horford (Marvin lineups)
Joe.Jeff.Odom.Horford.Collins (big lineups)

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Red Robin,

about this nonsense:

“You would think that Al would have better chose his words than to demand that he be given the power forward position, with out thinking about that would move josh to the perimeter and out of his game, thus weakening our defense.”

This idea has been discredited about a dozen times on this blog, but somehow it keeps on coming back. It’s like hearing Dick Cheney talk about WMD’s.

OK, Red Robin, your task is to find where Al Horford actually said he “demanded to be given the power forward position”. You won’t find it, because it’s total BS. He never said that, or anything close to it. But go ahead and look. If you are going to accuse Al of being over the top selfish in a public forum, then at least have the stones to actually back it up with a source or a link. Like I said, good luck.

Here’s what I remember: Horford was asked about playing bigger players, and mentioned that he is more of a natural 4. That’s all. He ALSO said he knows he will play a lot of 5 and that he and Josh have an advantage at the 5 and 4 because of their quickness. I don’t give two half sh!ts what his daddy said. Do you control what comes out of YOUR daddy’s mouth? And does ANYBODY think that the Hawks paid any attention to Tito’s nonsense? Or that they should?

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Sautee Dwight Howard and the Bulls outclass your small lineup. And this is why everyone hates the Hawks. Players want to get traded. Why?

They f****n deny they have a problem. Season in season out. Without fail.

A) Horford is 6′ 9 3/4”
B) small forward: ? google “Horford @ PF: Flawed vs Quickness + Length (6′8 LuolDeng sequence 1) Hawks”
or “Horford vs Henderson”

We played Horford at the “4″ for 3 years now. Zaza Pachulia has never played with Al before? hello?

Joe.Jeff.Smith.Horford.Collins/Zaza

what the hell did you change? Nothing. If Horford is not able to get a frikkin oft injured defensive center and a former 2nd round pick from Wisconsin then

Josh Smith will choose for you and sign elsewhere when media complains that he’s somehow “stealing shots over Damien or Marvin or Horford or Zaza or Collins”

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“Not only doesnt Al have the heart for the low post but he doesnt have the heart of a power forward. He is a 6′ 10 1/2 ” small forward. Thats his position and thats what he wants to do and play.”

Wait, didn’t you JUST tell us some BS that he “demanded to be the power forward”? Now you say he wants to be the 3?

You can smell a hater a mile away.

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I find it amazing/amusing that you guys have turned on Hordford all of a sudden, lol. MC should tell Josh to read the blog if he doesn’t believe any other Hawk gets criticized.

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slimjr whats up long time no speak on the blog?Was in your old hood in NYK the other day

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Well you can tell this blog is back to normal. Crazy trade ideas and over the top criticism for certain players

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It’s funny how Josh is being bash for some comments he made at a Volunteer workout session where he was the only player on the team to show up (in great shape) and work out…. Maybe his comments do have some merit….

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Hey Buddy, I still think LD will try to bring in LD2 when his time at UCLA is up..that is what I fear going forward. I also believe that if LD can come up with a reason, Teague will not keep his job.

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cp you nailed it. season hasnt started and folks still living in the past with past prejudice.

go get em big dave.

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Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut,

Problem is Bucks wont make that trade you proposed Not sure where the Hawks go from here until the mangaement is willing to spend money and make moves. I feel that the management has to make a move to break up this group between Smith and Horford. This group lets be honest has somewhat underachieved although last year they had their shot against the Bulls.

The makeup of this team how it is currently built has to change. You cannot advance far in the playoffs without an inside that can play in the post. Hawks dont have that and if Joe Johnson is your best post up player even though he isnt bad with two players who are taller than him and have no post up game. All the NBA champions have had a post up player except for a few exceptions. Sometimes the Hawks make it difficult for them to score because they are a jump shooting team.

Who would you rather have David Lee or Al Horford?

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“Well you can tell this blog is back to normal. Crazy trade ideas and over the top criticism for certain players”

LMAO ain’t that the truth.

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@ Fresh

People have turned on Horford because I think for the first time, people got scared. IF Al couldn’t play at a high level ( or even at a mediocre level ) when so-called playing his natural position of PF, how are the Hawks going to improve in the future?

So Al was ineffective at PF . . . Josh was missing a ton of jumpers at SF . . . JJ fluctuated from superstar mode to mediocre mode . . . Jamal was either red hot or ice cold.

I think the one thing we have to watch out for is this . . . is the future of the Hawks the team we saw emerge in the playoffs, or the team that we watched for the final 1/3rd of the season ( which looked lost and without direction ).

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@ Joe-Jeff ( just for clarification )

The starting lineup for the 1988-89 Pistons was this

PG – Isaiah
G – Dumars
F- Aguirre
PF – Mahorn
C – Laimbeer

Rodman came off the bench.

The following year, this was the starting lineup

PG – Isaiah
G – Dumars
F – Rodman
PF – James Edwards
C – Laimbeer

Aguirre eventually moved to the 6th man role

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Red Robin . . . it wasn’t Al “demanding” to play out of position. It’s just that Al had no chance in guarding Dwight Howard. Collins was better equipped to guard Dwight, even though Dwight still dominated him.

Al played the vast majority of his minutes in the Chicago series at center. And the team did play better once that happened. This does back up your theory that when Al plays the 5 and Josh plays the 4, we’re usually OK . . . provided that BOTH guys do the necessary dirty work on the glass and on the inside to help the Hawks.

And that’s the real issue with those two. They BOTH must battle, if they’re going to play the 4 and the 5. To Horford’s credit, he did rebound the basketball well during the playoffs.

This is about mentality with those two, and with the Hawks in general. The players on this team, as constructed, simply have to do more.

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One advantage the Bulls had over the Hawks is their head coach. Thibs has a championship pedigree from winning a ring as a Celtics assistant, and more importantly, he stresses defense, which the Bulls players bought into.

Do any of our players buy in completely to what LD is selling? I dont think so.

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northcyde you’re ignoring the offense.

are you saying that on top of going with a small base of Josh Smith & take Smith off Deng. Put him on Boozer. And then stick Marvin on Deng.

Who’s going to be pulling the weight on offense? Horford vs Noah, Marvin vs Deng or Josh’s speed vs Boozer.

Who’s going to get the blame? obviously Josh, is going to have the biggest mismatch and get the most criticism

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tjhook

I would prefer Childress over Marv as well;
however, one thing to consider, Marv $7 milfor 3 yrs,
Chilress $6 mil for 4 yrs don’t exactly gee haw.

As for “motion” offense;
it’s not so much their slashing ability,
but Childress ability to move w/o the ball.
He would immediately become the best on the team.

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J Chill is a perimeter player but how does he help rebounding? You think his offense is good enough to overcome the lack of rebounding?

did the East get weaker? did Chillz improve?

instead of countering guys like Carmelo Anthony, Danny Granger, Luol Deng, Shawn Marion Kevin Durant and Ron Artest and Lebron James with Josh Smith.

A real Hawks fan actually proposed counter is Josh Childress.

Unreal.

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Chills is a good rebounder, check his final years with the team- particularly when we picked up Bibby or played Anthony Johnson (flashback). Atlanta’s achilles’ heel was scoring droughts and I believe that came from a lack of continuity. I know it’s hard to believe a utility player could provide such an impact from above average to elite but it’s like Pepto-Bismol to anyone’s indigestion or upset stomach: without it, we feel horrible; with it, the world seems like a playground.

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I bet JJ…is begging Josh to stay. Without Josh to criticize it will a blood bath for JJ. heh heh

I’m not against trading Josh if he really wants to be traded…if MC reported it…I have got to believe it true.

However, I do have my reservations about Sund and the ASG consummating another major trade. Once you trade away the best valued contract on the team…where does that leave the Hawks with their luxury tax conundrum.

AJ and Big Ray, let’s put all venom aside…and see what trades actually improves the luxury tax situation of the Hawks…after all we are talking about owners that appear to be strapped for cash…maybe you all know something we don’t.

I covet CP3 and D12 as much as anyone…seriously though…save for Donald Sterling…why would any high profile player leave their current owners to play for the BASG…hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

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Anybody seen Ken Strickland lately?

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Okay why is it that Josh is being criticized so harshly? If memory serves me correctly Him and JT0 were pretty much keeping us afloat in the playoffs if at all.

Plus with all these wild trading ideas if we’re going to get D12 or CP3 I think they’d like Josh Smith to be here, but you know any Trade with NO I hope Teague doesn’t go cause if he gets a good coach then it will be one of those I told you so type things.

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* will we ever BE part of any …

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AJ and Big Ray, let’s put all venom aside…and see what trades actually improves the luxury tax situation of the Hawks…after all we are talking about owners that appear to be strapped for cash…maybe you all know something we don’t.

What venom? Is it venomous if it’s true? What trades? This ownership group was clueless before they started, clueless while they’ve had this team, and unfortunately for us and the team, they are still in ownership of this team….and still clueless.

If you hated the JC2/Bibby for Kirk trade, then I have news for you – it isn’t going to get any better with the same ownership and same GM.

And I can’t imagine what changes we expect to see with the same players, same attitudes, and same coach who can’t control anything.

Best thing to do is really shake up the chemistry of this team by jettisoning a REAL member of the core. Take your pick. And don’t say “Marvin” because he doesn’t count when it comes to locker room impact, much less gametime/crunch time.

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Trade ideas….I can’t even stomach half of them, or even a third. We’re in full midseason mode here, I swear…

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WORST OWNERSHIP, GM, FRONT OFFICE IN SPORTS

LOWEST PAID COACH IN THE NBA

NO CENTER

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Red Robin ,Northcyde, I follow your logic and observation.

1) This is pro- horford press/blog page that realizes that in order for the team to advance either Josh or Al has to go. Hence the attacks on Josh who has played the game at a very high level. The strategy here is kind of like the tea/party/republican. “never mind whats best for the country, get Obama”.
Never mind whats best for the team, get Josh smith.(LMAO as I write this ch!t)

Exhibit A, In Mr. Cunningham anecdote, did you you see any quotation marks around the unhappy Josh statement? Me either. this was purely fabricated and inserted to make it easy to say oh if josh is unhappy then trade him.. Excuse me but the man just called the Phillips his sanctuary, had a stellar play off performance… again and work hard over the summer to lose 30 pounds and come in the best shape of his life. Unhappy? I think not. the man is focused and driven. His marketability is off the roof making over 15 commercial, ( many with the elite NBA players and 6 in particular with his best buddy Dwight Howard.) The man is not unhappy. The man is cooking!

Josh, let your haters be your motivators! I do all the time.

2) Al horford has not only whined about playing power forward rather than center, his nonchalant
defense in the post makes as much of a statement as does has whining. He is more of a spectator at the 5 than a tenacious defender and id rather have defense at the 5 than points. Al’s attitude of me first and who cares if everyone else is out of position is detrimental to the flow of the team’s game. If he wont enthusiastically own the 5 and thereby demand the 4, forcing every one else out of position then he should be traded. In fact the hawks would be better if he was assuming we got back a willing center.

3) Howard has publically stated his favoritism for Josh. Its quite clear that he would play for the hawks if, and to quote the article, and only if Josh was here. He would not be interested in coming if horford is the powerforward.

4) With all this press support why cant Al get the fan support and get voted on the All star team? How many commercials does Al have? (0). My point is not to rag on Al but to clarify that Al is not a marquee player and is not going to get that “call” in the playoffs that give an edge to the team. Hes not going to get to the line much.

5) Josh is much more of an impact player than Al.has to demand the ball on certain spots because, unlike Josh, Al can not create his own shot and disrupts the smoove flow,(no pun intended) of the offense, which must stand around and wait for Al to get to a set spot to have a chance at a shot.

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Does anybody really care about the NBA in this town and this sad group if players and even worse owners?

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[...] From what I can tell, none of Atlanta’s players have been declared untouchable for trades. So, at … But if they do decide to pay the tax to add some significant pieces then it would seem to decrease the urgency of seeking a trade. Atlanta Journal-Constitution Atlanta Hawks, Free Agency, Trade  [...]

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The Unsellables!

This ASKG is reminiscent of that show on HGTV where you can DIY (do it yourself) and go figure why your house isn’t selling.

It is a pretty decent house, has great bones, the hardwood floors run throughout and, are in decent shape. The master bedroom has an En Suite, a department store sized walk in closet, double vanity and heated tile in the master bath. And yet – it’s been on the market for over a year.

The neighbor hood is decent, but it’s just not safe for the kids to go out and play. So wassup? CLUTTER! Just clutter in every corner and rats in the basement.
______________

Here’s my point: the home for sale is Phillips Arena, the hardwood floors is the court, the master bedroom is the executive offices, the department store sized walk in closet is the locker room, the master bath is the showers and the neighborhood is down town Atlanta.

And all that clutter, well it starts with the bench and the mismatched parts of that “core”. Wanna guess who the rats in the basement are? LOL! You guessed right – them filthy, nasty – net gnawing owners.

To get this house sold? We need to first get rid of them rats, de-clutter that roster and hire a grounds crew to keep things tidy. Oh well, that’s my two cents for what it’s worth.
FOR SALE by OWNER!

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I’ve really missed you DRMARYB, glad we’re all finally able to come back together, even the misfits.

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Big Dog,

“1) This is pro- horford press/blog page that realizes that in order for the team to advance either Josh or Al has to go.”

Pro Horford blog page?

I just took the time to look at this thread and count the + / – comments for Al and Josh.

The total: Josh – 6 positive, 4 negative

Al: 2 positive – 8 negative

And that’s before your last two negative posts about Horford. Which brings him to 10 negative comments with Josh getting 4.

Pro Horford blog? BS!

Also, the idea that one must go is NOT accepted by the entire blog, as you suggest. Some of us believe that it can work with the two of them playing together.

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Buddy G,

I agree the Hawks can do more but do you see outside of Teague and Josh Smith being better, do you see the rest of the team playing their potential?JJ is a year older, Horford I dont see getting better. Zaza will be about the same who I like, Marvin will see but do you see a marked improvement. If you were to predict their record for the Hawks how do you see them doing?

drmaryb,

That was a good song back in the day smoke weed everyday was Nate Dogg at the end of that Snoop and Dre song!

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Ken Strickland,

Glad to see you back. I hope your health is well.

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Sautee,

If you want both to stay how do you see the Hawks getting better?Even if Teague is a 15 6-7 assists guy do you see more success for the Hawks this year?I was impressed against the Bulls and mad at the same time. I watched the whole series again from Game 1 to Game 6 and I was so angry at LD for his substitutions more than the players themselves.

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MC,

I guess the REAL question would be: Would the AGS actually spend the cap room they would gain?

No MLE in how many years?

They have made me too jaded to think that they can have a viable long term plan.

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Michael Cunningham honestly I want to win now.

I want to compete with the Bulls for years and see what these guys can challenge Miami

Teague vs {Bibby/Chalmers}
Johnson vs Wade
Leuer vs Bosh
Smith vs Lebron
Bogut vs Dalembert

Not a one year rental and then rebuild around whom? Hawks gain cap room for 2012-13? For whom, Who would want to come to a depleted team?

Or if Horford or Joe is your best player only wannabe leaders with personal agendas aside from winning would come here?

You want to be the Washington Wizards? You have loyal players with power in the league to do damage. You screw them and then rent CP3/Dwight. You look like a turnstyle franchise. No stability.

You think Iguodala wants to go to ATL and be the new scapegoat? You think Bottomfeeders want in now? Wait till you deplete the team.

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Ken Strickland thats not the point. Childress is a stop gap perimeter player for keeping Horford and Josh together.

Hawks coach Larry Drew said Benson can play both center and power forward. Drew said he wants the Hawks to take a “very aggressive approach” to defense next season and Benson could help that process.

“Going into the draft and looking at the free-agent market, if we are going to be one of the top teams in the [Eastern Conference] we have got to get better defensively,” he said. “And what better way to get better than to bring in a shot blocker.”

Does Josh Childress make the Hawks agressive defensive ECF contenders? No.

Josh Smith + Bogut is aggressive.
A championship team needs someone who can protect the rim defensively (Smith, Bogut) and an elite shot-creator offensively (Johnson, Teague).

Why are Horford and Childress still being talked about?

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WHERE IS THE LOGIC!

I found it right here:

“For those who insist on focusing on what JChildress allegedly can’t do, I’ll bet you would have had a field day criticizing DRodman and all of the things he couldn’t do. Get the point? Would you refuse to acquire or play Rodman because he didn’t have a pullup jumper, or no jumper at all, or because he couldn’t handle the ball, shoot FTs, or penetrate?

HELL NO, you acquire and play him because of what he can or could do, not because of what he didn’t or couldn’t do. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES. I’d take Childress back in a heart beat, especially with the style of OFF we’re running. His presence and versatility would certainly lesson the impact of Hinrich’s loss, and he’d be a solid starter or backup at the 3.” -Ken Strickland-
________________
copyright that!

Man am I glad to see you bringing the wood! Baby, I sure have missed you – hope you are feeling well, but, I see some things will NEVER change and, I for one wouldn’t have you any other way. LOGIC is in the house – Yeah!

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The Hawks could go 2 ways.

1. Is 2 stay conservative an bring back everybody and add a free agent Josh Howard.

2. Make a run at Superman or just wait for next season in free agent 2 add superman.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Teague, Joe, Josh, Bass, Howard

Would be the best defensive team in the NBA

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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IF STAY CONSERVATIVE 2011 ATLANTA HAWKS

STARTERS TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, ZAZA

BENCH HINRICH, DAMIEN, JOSH HOWARD, MARVIN, COLLINS

RESERVE BENSON, PAPE

This is a good team and could compete, i like this team alot adding Josh Howard would be great move only if his head on straight and have commitment to the HAWKS.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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IF JOSH IS UNHAPPY HE MUST BE TRADED, but i would like to here from the horse mouth first.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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Man, just thinkin’ about Bibby. Guy gave up about 7m all told for that trip to the finals last year. Hope it was worth it to him.

But he’s made a ton over his career also.

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Larry Drew definitely has not put the hawks in the best position to win. Moving Josh to the 3 to accommodate Al’s declaration has back fired. Al did not remotely resemble a beast, but more like a pelican or ostrich or something… in the playoffs it was same ol Al with the 12pts career average mediocre at best.

I think the best way Al can help this team, if its not all about him, is to take ownership of the center position and embrace a physical role. Become a MAN in the middle. We dont need him to score as much just defend the cup, period. Thats the role we need a center who will defend the cup. Al can do it, but he doesn’t have the heart or will to.

Josh clearly spent the off-season getting into world class shape so he can be a more athletic impact player. Al should have spent the summer getting bigger and stronger to handle play at the low arc. I dont think he made any changes and is content with what he is.

I expected more from Al. Lets get a center who likes to play center.

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btw dr mary b, awesome analogy and just wasnt sure where you were going there for a second.

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“I think the best way Al can help this team, if its not all about him, is to take ownership of the center position and embrace a physical role. Become a MAN in the middle”

Co-sign. We need the Al from his first two seasons. And he has more of an advantage against centers than PFs.

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Ain’t it Great;
Welcome Home Ken strickland ! ! !

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Sautee, im not sure what you call negative is analysis of facts. Whats more Im talking about the writers and guess dignitaries like Mr. Cunningham, Big Ray and Doc. Thats a pro Horford camp. The rest of us are reactive to the writers publications not pro active.

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Ken Strickland,

Good to hear you. Hope that you are OK.

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“And he has more of an advantage against centers than PFs.”

I don’t think even Al realizes this. If he faced up and drove on centers he could use his quickness advantage to get to the hoop pretty frequently. But in order to do that he needs to quit being Timid Al and get back to being Beast Al.

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“Yes, Josh is infuriating, however, IF we looked at games more closely, we should also find infuriating Al’s lack of huevos and his whining that he is too small, out of position, etc.”

OK, vava, once again, please reference exactly where Al “whined” that he was “too small”, and “out of position”? I don’t find that anywhere.

If you want to denigrate someone on an open forum, then have the ‘huevos” to provide a link that actually PROVES this alleged “whining”.

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“Im talking about the writers and guess dignitaries like Mr. Cunningham, Big Ray and Doc. ”

Who are the dignitaries? Lemme guess.

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brigadierjerry Out side of the Center ( or lack there of) issue, I emphatically agree. Our coaching has to be a pitfall and amongst the worst in the game. Im not saying Woody was all that but to go to his assistant coach was clearly illogical and a couple steps down. Atlanta beats Chicago even with Woodson.

Larry Drew has got to go if the Hawks are going to get better. Period.

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“Let’s face it we already have three strikes against us having a idiot for a head coach, reminds me of Cain.”

Is Rusty short for “Abel”?

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At face value this team isnt as bad as some may make it seem but to me coaching is a big problem with this team. If they would’ve shelled out some more money they might’ve gotten Avery Johnson or even Dwayne Casey I would’ve preferred then Larry Drew. I agree that if Woodson had this team in the playoffs against the Bulls I think they beat the Bulls. It is more accountability with this team more than anything and knowing their roles.

This Hawks team reminds me of those early 2000’s Kings teams and I know they got robbed in 2002 against the Lakers in the Conference Finals but they were good offensive teams. They could never go over the hump and then Weber was gone and Divac and the team broke down. They tried to make changes but by then it was too late and the team has been rebuilding ever since.

I am not saying the Hawks are eventually gonna get bad after a few years because the Hawks core is still young but after years and years and looking forward not possibly not even getting to a Eastern Conference Finals then it may be time to move on with this group and make changes.

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Camp Life!

Hey Ken Strick! I thought you had got that tent, the dog and the generator and headed for the hills without me.

But, I’m glad to see you are still around and haven’t forgotten about your old lady. (smiles)

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NBA Trade Speculation: The Best Landing Spot for 7 Major Names on the Block
By
Daniel Christian
(Correspondent) on August 15, 2011

Dwight Howard: Atlanta Hawks

The Atlanta Hawks are one piece away from contending for an NBA championship, and that is the most important piece there is: a superstar.

While the center position is Atlanta’s most gaping hole, snagging Andrew Bynum in a Lakers trade won’t quite do the trick, especially if they have to lose Al Horford or Josh Smith for it.

Howard won’t want to come home to Atlanta unless his AAU buddy, Josh Smith, is there. So while Smith may be a major trade piece that Orlando wants in return, the Hawks would be more inclined to deal Al Horford to keep a content Dwight Howard in Atlanta.

A Marvin Williams-and-Al Horford-for-Dwight Howard trade makes plenty of sense for both sides (only for Orlando if Howard demands to be traded). The Magic may lose their second incredibly dominant center in 20 years, but at least in return they get a two-time All-Star who is truly on the fringe of becoming something more. Paired with him is an athletic wing who has struggled to live up to the hype of a second overall pick, but is serviceable nonetheless (only if he finally learns not to shoot with his heels on the three-point line—worst shot in basketball).

The Hawks then have a roster ready to compete with Miami’s, and a roster that would be a force for years to come.

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Sautee, im not sure what you call negative is analysis of facts. Whats more Im talking about the writers and guess dignitaries like Mr. Cunningham, Big Ray and Doc. Thats a pro Horford camp. The rest of us are reactive to the writers publications not pro active.

I find it strange that I’m part of a pro-Horford camp when I repeatedly called all last season for Horford to get back to the guy who we knew in his first 2 or 3 seasons. I and my so-called “dignitary” colleagues have also been heavily critical of Joe Johnson and Josh Smith, and anybody else in a Hawks uniform, including the “here one day, gone the next, back again, disappeared again” Marvin Williams.

But no….I know what the real issue is here, and it’s always been the same issue. Some people refuse to take analysis and criticism of their favorite player as just that – analysis and criticism. Some people will worship Jeff Teague after one mostly great playoff series. Others will look at Josh Smith for one or two playoff games and proclaim him the franchise’s savior (never mind the fact that the franchise has yet to be saved). Others will find somebody else to worship. Here’s the laydown, so we can stop with all this “pro-this player camp” BS:

Joe Johnson – doesn’t play hard on both sides of the court all the time but is STILL the team’s best player.

Jeff Teague – clearly more talented than given credit for, but still unknown. Can he play like he did against Chicago last post season….ALL the time?

Al Horford – forgot his rugged ways (and so have many fans), and now looks to play the 4, which isn’t helping us without a starting quality or 25 mpg center. Don’t know if we can get his mentality reversed, and if we can’t – it may be time to move him…but ONLY if we can get a solid pivot man in return. Otherwise it’s a dumb move (unless you’re getting some sort of superstar at another position). Still the team’s best rebounder by a margin. Is a body and position defender, not a rim defender (won’t block shots of same size or bigger players very often, but denies position as well as anybody except when facing the biggest/heaviest pivot guys.) Deserves every accolade and award he’s been given (all nba, all-star).

Josh Smith – the single most talented person on the team. Yes, there’s a distinct difference between being the BEST player on the team, and being the MOST TALENTED. Another mentality victim, Josh lacks the skills to be a 3 in all expected aspects, and lacks the committment to play the game in a way that will allow him to dominate. He takes a ton of perimeter shots that he shouldn’t (and lacks the skill to make on even a semi-consistent basis), and even after dominating at the rim on both ends of the floor, simply won’t repeat the performance from game to game. Is the team’s biggest cheerleader, supports his teammates like no other.

Marvin Williams – has no real role on the team, and plays like it. Will show up as a versatile player on some nights. Won’t notice him at all on other nights. Another mental enigma in some ways.

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Big Dog ,

I’d be all over that trade. How’s that for a “pro Horford” accolyte?

Here are the tricks to this, however….

1) Gotta scrap Larry Drew’s offensive scheme. Isn’t going to work with Howard in the mix.

2) Run the offense off of Howard down low, and Joe Johnson on the perimeter. Even the vaunted Celtics defense (or the Bulls) can stop that. But even if they could slow it down, they’d still have to deal with Josh Smith. Which leads me to the next point –

3) Somebody must convince Josh Smith to commit to rebounding next to whoever is playing center. He can defend the rim, but he can also defend outside the paint (gambles a bit too much sometimes, but that can be curbed just a bit). On the offensive end, he has to commit to slashing to the rim and taking the 15-18 foot jumper if he’s going to take jumpers. We can’t expect him to do a lot of work down low with Dwight on the team, but that does NOT mean he can’t still score at the rim, where he BY FAR, does his best work. Heck, if Rashard Lewis could have fit the above critera to an extent, the Magic would still be in the NBA Finals every year. But Rashard has never been that kind of player. Smith can be.

4) Jeff Teague has to become a better shooter from the outside. And trade Marvin for a wing that will make outside shots consistently. The Magic were at their best when feeding Dwight for close-in scores, and when you tried collapsing on him, they’d feed their snipers. The Hawks have one sniper in Joe, but they need more, if they get Dwight.

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“Maybe the blog is lass pro Horford than some might think.”

Horford’s a lass? vava74 would say that explains a lot.

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You pro horford cronies masquerading as fair and non partial remind me of slick willy

‘” I did not have sex with that woman”

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Mr. Ray on another not I think you miss the point. Getting another center so Horford can move over to the 4 is idiotic… why should we weaken the play at power forward to accommodate Horford’s demands? Josh is a better power forward than Al, so why should he give up his position to Al because Al wants it? Al moving to the 4 has proven to be a burst, by forcing every body out of position and disrupting the flow of the offense. Al is not as good as Josh when it comes to play power forward. So why should josh move??? Should it be that if Al cant handle his position he should be replaced?

Would that make you unhappy if you played a position extremely well and you were forced to give up your position to accommodate a whiner who cant play the position as well? Al moving to the 4 makes us a weaker team, as does moving Josh to the 3 position and out of the low post. Why take our best defender out of range of the post? I sure hopes a light bulb comes on or something. Its dark “up in here”

Either Al steps up to the 5 with his whole heart or gets traded for a center that will. Why should we take a step backward putting Al in Josh’s position?

I could understand the logic if Al were better than Josh, but hes not, not even close. So why should Josh move? Excuse me?

Id be unhappy too.

The engineers of these type of idiotic moves are the same ones that brought you Larry Drew. I think you guys are intent on destroying Atlanta Franchises with this stupidity….

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Some of the fans who continue to make these trade suggestions don’t seem to realize that it takes more than their wishful and delusional thinking to make these trades take place. It takes the agreement of both teams, and in some cases the player, or players involved. Also, only a complete fool would consider any trade that would potentially wreak the franchise. And giving up 2-3 Allstar, or Allstar caliber starters, for a player who will most likely bolt the team after the 66gm season ends.

THIS IS NOT A FANTASY FOOTBALL BLOG, SO STOP WITH ALL THESE FANTASY TRADE SUGGESTIONS, PLEASE! Just imagine, if you will, someone consistently criticizing AHorford for alledgedly having numerous shortcomings and liabilities. Then imagine that same individual foolishly expecting another team to accept Horford, along with all of his alledged shortcomings and liabilities, in trade for the NBA’s most dominant player.

You can’t have it both ways, no matter how hard you try.

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Dept. Of Unintended Irony just a thought, are you an Atlanta fan, or an Atlanta hawks fan? Can you be both? Can one trump the other?

Just a clarifying line of questions if you will.

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” I agree that if Woodson had this team in the playoffs against the Bulls I think they beat the Bulls”- brigadierjerry

Thank you….I needed that laugh.

Woodson has the worst playoff series lose in the history of the NBA….In what world would he have beat the Bulls – Bizaro World

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“Forward Josh Smith showed up for voluntary workouts Thursday looking noticeably leaner. He said he lost 30 pounds by working out and playing in a pro-am league in Los Angeles and in local pickup games with fellow pros.”

He may have said a few things that upset some folks on here but you can’t question his work ethic….

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wow my sentiments exactly as dept sadly i was a big jj fan until woody allowed him to pound the ball like it waz three yards anda cloud of dust offense.

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BIG DOG,

You’re kidding, right? Not only did I NOT say that we should go get a center so Al could move to the 4, I stated most clearly that if Al can’t commit to playing the center position, we should probably trade him. What I said is that we can’t succeed with Al at the 4, because we don’t have another center on the squad who can log serious minutes at the 5 and hold his own against the better guys at the position. That does not suggest that we go looking for one. Furthermore, why would I want Josh to move from the 4? The only place he could go is the 3, and that would be a disaster.

Seriously, you’re trying to make the Al vs. Josh at the PF position? You may as well be talking to the air with that one, I want no parts of it. What I want is for Al to play like he did in his first two years in the NBA, and for Josh to play like a 4, instead of acting like a 3. If both guys will do that, we’re a team to contend. But as it stands right now, neither guy will commit to the position he plays best at.

Al might be good with that 18 foot jumper, but he needs to play the 5, and play it ruggedly, the way he used to.

Josh stinks with his “just inside the 3 point line” jumper, and needs to commit to rebounding and scoring at the rim. He almost can’t be stopped when it comes to scoring inside, finishing in transition, and using that shake and bake to take other PFs off the dribble and finish at the rim. But does he do that every night? No. He goes out and tries to be Rashard Lewis.

There is no reason why Al Horford can’t pump out 14-15 ppg and 10 rpg at the center position. If only he’d commit to it.

There is no reason why Josh Smith can’t pump out 18 ppg and 10 rpg at the power forward position. If only he’d commit to it.

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Somebody must convince Josh Smith to commit to rebounding next to whoever is playing center. He can defend the rim, but he can also defend outside the paint (gambles a bit too much sometimes, but that can be curbed just a bit). On the offensive end, he has to commit to slashing to the rim and taking the 15-18 foot jumper if he’s going to take jumpers. We can’t expect him to do a lot of work down low with Dwight on the team, but that does NOT mean he can’t still score at the rim, where he BY FAR, does his best work. Heck, if Rashard Lewis could have fit the above critera to an extent, the Magic would still be in the NBA Finals every year. But Rashard has never been that kind of player. Smith can be.

Yeah, that definitely sounds like me campaigning for Horford to play the 4, and for Josh to play the 3.

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Al Horford – forgot his rugged ways (and so have many fans), and now looks to play the 4, which isn’t helping us without a starting quality or 25 mpg center. Don’t know if we can get his mentality reversed, and if we can’t – it may be time to move him…but ONLY if we can get a solid pivot man in return.

Gee…sounds like I suggested that if Al can’t get his mind re-wrapped around playing center, then we should trade him. But I wouldn’t say that, now would I?

On another note, I wonder why there seems to be no response to Smith playing out on the perimeter too much?

Are we seriously going to suggest that this is all Horford’s fault? Oh yes, that’s what it MUST be. Horford wanted to play the 4, so Larry Drew (wait, I thought he was the HEAD COACH) made it happen, and that just forced Josh Smith to take a bunch of ill-fated jumpers all season long.

I’m waiting for someone to show me the article written to explain that one. Funny, all the ones I’ve read are about Josh arguing with Mike Woodson about shooting jumpers. And then Josh arguing with Larry Drew about shooting jumpers. And then Josh arguing with the fans about shooting jumpers. And the fans booing Josh during games and yelling “Noooooooo!” when he lines up for one. And then Josh saying he doesn’t hear that during games. And then Josh saying he’s tired of being criticized and his other teammates don’t get criticized as much.

But no articles on Al Horford causing all of this to happen by forcing everybody out of position. Nope, not one. I guess it’s a world wide conspiracy to shamelessly bash Josh for playing like a 3 when he was penciled in at the 4, and to let Horford play the 4.

Gosh, if Horford is this good, the CIA should hire him. Like, right now.

Meanwhile, Josh is the biggest victim of an undeserved beatdown since Rodney King.

You heard it here first (actually, you’ve already heard it elsewhere…)

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And with that I’m out…enough directionless conversation for one night.

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** clearly documents the scenario.

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If Josh were in many cities – say Philadelphia or numerous other cities, and played like he did at times last season, he would be run out of town. He get’s somewhat of a pass because he’s a hometown guy.

Now if he played like he did his last season under Woody, and came in 2nd in DPY, he would be an incredible marketing hero, with his dunking ability. He’s the closest thing to a Human Highlight reel we’ve had since ‘Nique.

IF Woody and LD could be combined into 1 human being, they would make a pretty good NBA Head Coach.

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Analaphor!

“btw dr mary b, awesome analogy and just wasnt sure where you were going there for a second.”-doc-
______________

Hey doc, wassup? Yeah my friend, I went into Gregg Anthony mode there. I love his analaphors on NBA TV and, boy do I miss those guys and the commentators on TNT as well.

Hey doc, I’m just so sick about the sale that fell through, I feel teased and tortured by this ownership group. Perhaps Marvin and I can come see you and get some acupuncture therapy for our ailments? LOL
_____________

Kenny Strickland, thanks for the medical update. I’m so sorry you’ve had to deal with everything and I pray and hope they got all the bad stuff removed from your body. Sorry you lost your Lady Dobe and hope the new “best friend” keeps you going and happy. I Love you dearly and think/pray of/for you every day. You really make the blog something special.
______________

SlimJr baby! Where you at – man you are so damned funny. I laugh so hard when you get on a roll. Keep those enthusiastic posts coming – you are the comedian. You keeps it fun!

Great comments, I’ve enjoyed reading all of them. Especially:

Blu-Ray, doc, Najeh Davenpoop, Grandmaster JeJe, Worldwide Clyde, Grand-Daddy, Briggs, northcyde, darrell starks, Astro Joe, Sautee, Ken Strickland, DUI, big dave, Rod from CP, big dog … & MC.

I know I’m leaving someone off – sorry!

Too Much Good Stuff!

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Roll Call:

Kevin M
Stever W
Melvin
Ramon

And, it just don’t stop, (good stuff).

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BIG DOG,

Your argument, sordid as it is, points to Larry Drew being the problem, not Al Horford. If a head coach can’t get guys to play their own positions, then he shouldn’t be the head coach, plain and simple. I recall everything that Horford said last season, including all the articles where he said he would like some bigger guy in there to play with him in the post, but that he realized he would be logging the majority of the minutes at center. Unfortunately, he did not PLAY with this attitude nearly enough, and it did hurt us.

As far as “all of this being about who plays the 4″, appartently you missed all the comments from Josh Smith about how well he and Al played together. But don’t let facts stop you.

I’m willing to buy into the whole thing about two guys playing the 4, but I have yet to see a single comment from Josh Smith about not wanting to play on the perimeter, and wanting to get back to the 4 spot.

Ignore it all you want, buy into whatever conspiracy theory that fits your fancy…the fact is, Josh Smith plays on the perimeter because he wants to. He did it under Mike Woodson and drove him crazy. And guess what? That was while Horford played center FULL TIME. So explain to me how his issues are due to “Larry banishing him to the SF spot”? I’ll wait. I realize you think Josh is perfect and just a victim. That’s okay, I used to be a mindless fanatic, too. But myopia doesn’t suit me well.

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What’s funny is, I can’t say enough times that Horford’s problem is his mentality. But if I say Josh has mental committment issues too, then the dog starts barking it’s arse off….

SteveW ,

Thankyou for making sense and echoing the FACTS that every major (and minor) sportswriter and a host of fans have seen.

In the meantime, I agree that it’s good that Josh and Al have worked out together some. What we need is the kind of chemistry those two had in the 2008 playoffs against the Celtics. They were straight KILLIN’ it out there.

That was back when Al was a 5 and wanted to be, and Josh was a 4 and wanted to be. If only we could get back to that….those two are the key to us winning a LOT. And to think that it doesn’t come down to BOTH of them doing what this team needs is folly. It ain’t one or the other. It’s BOTH. Always has been, always will be.

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Hail to Hortford! Hail to Hortford! Let’s keep him happy and let him play the PF position. Hot Dog, he can be average at the PF position. No worries to the needs of the team. Let’s make Hortford Happy. Let’s let him shoot and not have to actually bang and help the team.

BTW, I hope that the Hawks are successful at signing free agents to a minimum contract after all other free agents are signed. It’s really been a successful in the past.

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Big ray, drmaryb, doc:

Looks like the ad men will have their season anyway. Why not have a 10 game gig and go right to the play-offs man.

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I see “dawgs” of a fur flock together. Making up arguments that nobody has come up with. I still can’t understand why some people insist there is a “pro Horford” sentiment around here.

If anything, these arse clowns should take it up with the NBA, journalists that cover the NBA, and coaches and players in the NBA. They’re the ones in print saying that Horford is a star. Hell, it was even in the trade scenario article that BIG DOG posted, even though he’ll never admit it was there. Here it is in his 5 p.m. post:

A Marvin Williams-and-Al Horford-for-Dwight Howard trade makes plenty of sense for both sides (only for Orlando if Howard demands to be traded). The Magic may lose their second incredibly dominant center in 20 years, but at least in return they get a two-time All-Star who is truly on the fringe of becoming something more.

Oh nooooo! Somebody else actually said Horford was good! Ahhhhhh! And it wasn’t a blogger….

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Problem is, the Hawks tend to go after guys who fit the vet minimum scale, not free agents that can make a difference on any given night.

Collins was the best of that bench in a limited role. Joe Smith and Etan Thomas never got to play, and Josh Powell did not do well in our nonchalant atmosphere…

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*Scratching my head *

If Josh (one team captain) says there’s chemistry issues and workout with Horford (another team captain) during the summer. Who’s the guy that competing for playing time at his position. Then what is the chemistry issue(s) could he be complaining about?

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@brigadierjerry whatsup baller? Whats kicking? Did ya run into Reggie Bush and Kim K by any chance? HeHeHe….What a booty on that human(Kim!)

Hey man if the Knicks get CP3, LOOK OUT!

Hey Marvina, think yall have a shot to contend for a ECF this season? CRICKETS………Dayum!
Geux Knicks! lol

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We need a rim PROTECTOR ALL NBA AL wanna play the 4 in his dreams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya hear us?

Come on Man!!!!!!!!

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I thought that boy Josh Smith was the the elite rim protector. How come he never makes the allstar team but wimpy Al Horford does? This team is disfunktional to a falt.

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Hail to Hortford! Hail to Hortford! Let’s keep him happy and let him play the PF position. Hot Dog, he can be average at the PF position. No worries to the needs of the team. Let’s make Hortford Happy. Let’s let him shoot and not have to actually bang and help the team. – Co sign.

It was the remarkable Mark Bradley who said lets trade Horford and Marvin Williams for D. Howard and in the same paragraph said that would be a good trade for both. Is he an idiot? or A lunatic?

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Big Dog,

One more thing before this older gentleman heads for bed: Who on this blog is pushing for Al to be a 4 and Josh a 3? Names?

I haven’t seen ANYONE to my memory pushing that, but sometimes I skim when I’m catching up.

You seem like you think there’s an entire cabal of co-conspirators doing all they can to keep Josh from the 4. WHO? The folks you have named (except for MC),have all said they like Josh at the 4.

Inquiring minds want to know. But not til I wake up.

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Hawks need to gamble on Alexis Ajinca.

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The chemistry issue is that Horford and Josh are both tweeners who cant score. Horford cant take anyone in isolation or off the dribble.

Josh can at least create those shots but Josh is the only one who gets criticized. If Horford or Marvin got the ball they would not even get up a shot.

How is Horford’s problem “mentality”? He gets injured every time he drives. He’s a bad perimeter player outside of:
A) make the right pass to shooter (Josh Smith is not a shooter = chemistry)
B) screen and pop. If 6 seconds are on the clock you cant run pick and pop. Give the ball to Josh (because Marvin/Jason Collins suck) but only yell at Josh if he misses.

How is Josh’s problem “mentality”? He’s a bad perimeter player but who is the alternative? Thats why Smith is put off by the Hawks.
ideally

Teague – PG : PG
???? – PF : SF (a pull up shooter with 3 pt range)
Smith – SF : PF (inside/baseline/painted area)
Johnson – SG : SG
Bogut – C : C (inside/baseline/painted area)

You could sub Horford for Bogut against most C (outside of Dwight). But Hawks need a shooter who can help on the boards.

We’ve done Childress (non-shooter not a big man), We’ve failed with Marvin (non-shooter not a big man), We’ve failed with Jason Collins (a big man, no stamina (non-shooter)
We’ve failed with Damien Wilkins. We’ve failed with Josh Childress both athletic non-shooting non big men.

We’ve failed with FLip Murray, Jamal Crawford, Mo Evans. Streak shooters who do nothing on the boards or defense.

IF YOU WANT TO KEEP SMITH AND HORFORD We need rebounding and shooting in ONE player If you can trade for Ryan Andersen + Dwight or Leuer + Bogut you do it.
There. Shooting and rebounding.

Leuer and Bogut is more likely. If you can’t get them then you;re screwed and should just trade Smith to save embarrassment of running the same small team over amnd over and over and over and over and over….

To Drew’s credit he wants to get bigger and he wants shooting, To his discredit he hasn’t mentioned how hard it is to get in one player and that means 6 players.

You can only play 5. And that means trade.

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If the Hawks were willing to take back Hedo or Arenas, I think the Magic would listen to a Horford, Kirk, and 2 draft picks for D12. They would get a young “All Star”, an expiring contract, and 2 first round picks out of the next 4 years. The fact is the main attraction D12 has to playing in Atlanta is playing with his best friend, not playing in his hometown. So D12 would not sign an extension here without Josh being here. If anything, D12 may would sign BACK with Orlando when a free agent. I’m more interested in signing D12 than I am in signing CP3. Why is that you ask? Besides the obvious injury history, who was the last PG to make an all star team AND when an NBA title the same season? However, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, David Robinson, and to a lesser extent Ben Wallace proved, that a dominate all star center can give you a title shot every year the NBA opens the door.

Also, I believe Teague can be BETTER than Rondo when given a front line of Josh and D12 to play with. Teague was a better scorer than Rondo in college, and just as good defensively.

After a deal like that, I would look at possibly bringing in Vince Carter (yes, Vince) to add depth at the 3 position for the mid level exception (at 2 years with a team option for the 3rd season).

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brig the first three coaches might have gotten us further. the last two on your list i am not a fan of. i think they may be a bit overated.

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I think Josh does get critcized more than his teamates, and I think there are 2 reasons for that.

1) He is the most talented player on the hawks team. Therefore, expectations are higher. If you have a child who is a B+ student, but you know they are capable of A- work, dont you hold them to higher standards? Don’t you lean on them more?

2) Most of his issues/faults should be easily corrected. Some of what I call issues are a) stop whining so much to the refs, and run back on defense b) Stop taking those terrible jumpers c) know when to give the ball up on the break d)when LD calls for you to be in the post, go in the post.

If Josh would do those things, and play to his strengths, he might have been an all-star already.

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Smith added weight and got knee injuries and diminished stamina and lift. Horford added weight in college and He is not very athletic to begin with and is at his optimal weight. 245 lbs.

RE: idiot alert
Oh brilliant. Who said Bogut was not healthy. They said he gets injured when he tries to carry a team. He cant carry a team. Neither can Horford. Bogut protects the rim. Bogut plays 30mpg but Jason Collins? 12 minutes.

Smith and Bogut gives the Hawks that identity of rim protection. Smith + Bogut > Dwight. Moron.

RE: Who the hell is jon leuer and how many minutes has he played in the nba? he aint Blake Griffin then i dont want to hear it.

Idiot alert. Jon Leuer aint Marvin Williams. I’ll tell you that much. He can actually punish a defense. Marvin punishes his own team. Childress cant shoot.

Brian Scalabrine killed Josh a while agoget off your high horse/

You want to turn Horford into Blake Griffin and andrew Bogut. Kool-Aid indeed. What an idiot.

Josh Smith would draw and kick to Leuer for 3. Smith would defer make plays for Bogut.

Marvin/Jason Collins/Horford suck and defer to Smith to create points.

Have fun with Jason Collins and Horford and blame Josh Smith when they both give the ball to him to save their sorry arses. What an idiot.

December 3rd, 2011
10:03 pm

I thought that boy Josh Smith was the the elite rim protector. How come he never makes the allstar team but wimpy Al Horford does? This team is disfunktional to a falt.Bogut is

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Slimjr,

Kim K and Reggie no. Kim has a nice backside but I think it if fake and it would explode upon contact. Ill take Alicia Keys the singer.

With CP3 I think NY will be better but will have a lot of depth problems.
Bx still the same the squeege people are back no suprise due to economy.

Let me ask you what type of changes would you like for the Hawks to make as far as player personnell?

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Can someone explain why we havent fired Larry Drew yet?

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Find a deal and jettison ALL Al All whatever for a real pivot man/RIM PROTECTOR……Please????

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Big Dog the genius:

“By the way, do get it twisted. Horford is a good player. Not great, Not at Josh’s level but a pretty good player in my view. But he aint a baller, like Josh.”

Which perfectly explains why the 30 or so head coaches in the NBA keep voting Al Horford to the all star team and never vote Josh Smith in. Another would be genius at work, I see. The truth is that Horford is darn good and Smith can be great if he could get out of his own way.

It would make more sense just to say that you hate Al Horford and are in love with Josh Smith. All the other arguments are plainly nonsensical in nature, and that is being generous.

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Ra’mon

December 3rd, 2011
10:53 pm

“If the Hawks were willing to take back Hedo or Arenas, I think the Magic would listen to a Horford, Kirk, and 2 draft picks for D12. They would get a young “All Star”, an expiring contract, and 2 first round picks out of the next 4 years. The fact is the main attraction D12 has to playing in Atlanta is playing with his best friend, not playing in his hometown. So D12 would not sign an extension here without Josh being here. If anything, D12 may would sign BACK with Orlando when a free agent. I’m more interested in signing D12 than I am in signing CP3. Why is that you ask? Besides the obvious injury history, who was the last PG to make an all star team AND when an NBA title the same season? However, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, David Robinson, and to a lesser extent Ben Wallace proved, that a dominate all star center can give you a title shot every year the NBA opens the door.

Also, I believe Teague can be BETTER than Rondo when given a front line of Josh and D12 to play with. Teague was a better scorer than Rondo in college, and just as good defensively.

After a deal like that, I would look at possibly bringing in Vince Carter (yes, Vince) to add depth at the 3 position for the mid level exception (at 2 years with a team option for the 3rd season).”

@Brigadierjerry, I like how Ra’mon is thinking. This guy should be the GM!!!!!! lol

I’d rather get D12 in here over CP3 all day! Then surround him with shooters at the 1,2,and 3! The ECF is our’s!!!!!!! My #3 has to be a legit scorer! That’s mandatory…

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* I thought when the lights came on you guys were suppose to scatter

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Josh got 100k more votes at his position than horford got at his. Dont give me this garbage about who the coaches vote for, by rule they have to vote for a player at every position after the fans have voted. So they pick the left overs and They have to pick from their conference. furthermore roach here we go again 30 coaches did not add Horford as a “reserve” he has yet to earn an election but is being added as a “reserve”.

You cant fool the fans. over 100,000.00 more votes for Josh then Al, you roach.

2011 NBA ALL-STAR BALLOTING EASTERN CONFERENCE

Guards: Dwyane Wade (Mia) 2,048,175; Derrick Rose (Chi) 1,914,996; Rajon Rondo (Bos) 1,587,297; Ray Allen (Bos) 890,951; Raymond Felton (NYK) 397,301; John Wall (Was) 337,368; Gilbert Arenas (Orl) 312,903; Brandon Jennings (Mil) 301,225; Jamal Crawford (Atl) 246,130, Joe Johnson (Atl) 224,571.

Forwards: LeBron James (Mia) 2,053,011; Amar’e Stoudemire (NYK) 1,674,995; Kevin Garnett (Bos) 1,407,601; Paul Pierce (Bos) 804,838; Chris Bosh (Mia) 571,734; Carlos Boozer (Chi) 504,610; Danilo Gallinari (NYK) 390,658; Josh Smith (Atl) 387,843; Luol Deng (Chi) 291,118; Danny Granger (Ind) 279,522.

Centers: Dwight Howard (Orl) 2,099,204; Shaquille O’Neal (Bos) 906,284; Joakim Noah (Chi) 432,127; Andrew Bogut (Mil) 301,896; Al Horford (Atl) 287,083; Roy Hibbert (Ind) 250,614; Andrea Bargnani (Tor) 215,123; Brook Lopez (NJ) 166,844; JaVale McGee (Was) 146,474; Ben Wallace (Det) 113,443.

Read more: http://www.insidehoops.com/all-star-voting-results.shtml#ixzz1fXhssLpW

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Great stuff folks…seven pages already and the season haven’t even started…absolutely awesome!

Weclome back Ken Strick…what up dmb.

Big Ray, yeah you did use be pro Josh…but if memory serves me correct…didn’t you actually have a blog stating it was time to trade Josh. In fact not only you…but AJ ,MC, and Shultz was talking about trading Josh heading into the draft like was already a far gone conclusion…could that be what Josh what referring to…hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Anyway, I always enjoy reading blogs…and even though you went Benedict Arnold on me.lol

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“Which perfectly explains why the 30 or so head coaches in the NBA keep voting Al Horford to the all star team and never vote Josh Smith in. ”

Without taking sides in this ultimately pointless argument, I would like to point out that one huge advantage Al has over Smoove when it comes to All Star voting is his center eligibility. Someone has to back up Dwight on the All Star team, and Al fits the bill as well as anyone else in the East. It’s easier for a coach to decide that someone with KG or Paul Pierce’s resume should beat out Smoove than to say someone like Andrew Bogut should beat out Al.

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Say it ain’t so:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Arfv8IZcKVdFDuEmU7Tocio5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_free_agent_buzz_120311

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Sure hope Hawks can outmaneuver Miami for Battie. He would make the 3 friends SICK. We could use his brain, as well as his talent. Bet you arse, JS wouldn’t be jacking all those 3’s with Battie at the 3.
If we can’t get Shane, I say use the midlevel, pay the luxury tax and talk AI into a backup/teaching role. If he could teach JT that crossover and how to defend it, he would be worth it. AI can still play, if he can subjugate his ego to the reality he’s no longer “the star”. I think he’s smart enough to make the transition, and would love to see the Hawks give him the chance.

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IF NO CHANGES TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, ZAZA,
is okay with me, Teague will make this team 100percent better than previous starting point guard, Bibby and Hinrich SMH.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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FYI peeps I always get blog posts eaten when I use Firefox. I have never had one post get eaten using Google Chrome. At my work we use it because it handles databases far better than Firefox.

“Childress fits this roster and Marvin fits the Suns.” – tjhook

I think what you guys are missing who want Chills back is that he felt disrespected when he had to get a contract overseas. I think the Hawks would have brought him back if he was willing to play for the organization, but I don’t believe he will ever play for the Hawks again.

“JJ is a year older, Horford I dont see getting better. Zaza will be about the same who I like, Marvin will see but do you see a marked improvement. If you were to predict their record for the Hawks how do you see them doing?” – brigadierjerry

I see a huge improvement across the board and I’m predicting 38-27. JJ is older but he’s had time to recover from nagging injuries. He’s in great shape by all accounts. Horford I see major improvement from. When his ball handling ability catches up with his shooting ability, game over. Marvin’s career has been majorly impacted by a bulging disk. We will have to wait and see if he fully recovers. If so, this could be a career year for him in the absense of JC1.

Zaza also, with JC1 out of the picture, will get something closer to proper utilization, unlike the CHI series where he sat for long stretches while less productive players played. Teague could be an optical illusion, due to the bad ankle Derrick Rose played that series on. But if he’s the real deal, and Kirk makes it all the way back from his latest setback, this is a much better team than the team that pushed CHI to Game 6. Other teams will be improved as well, but I think the Hawks are on of the up-and-coming teams in the NBA.

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@brigadierjerry capspace. mutual interest
@Buddy Grizzard Counting Horford’s assists he contributes 22ppg. Horford has shown no shooting ability outside of pick and pop and set shots.

If you contest and make him dribble, he often gets injured trying to score moving towards the basket.

Outside of screening and hoping the guards penetration leaves him wide open. What shooting ability do you speak of? He still can’t even shoot a hook shot over NBA defenders.

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Red Robin = Big Dog = burp = a multi-named troll that hates Horford and tries to hide his ways so he can stay.

But some of us know.

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Horford is a weak rebounder
Horford is a weak low-post defender
Horford cannot protect the rim
Horford cannot create his own shot either in the post or on the perimeter
Horford cannot handle the ball

All of the 15 footers in the world cannot make up for the above.

The only other thing he seems good at is getting selected to play in meaningless All Star Exhibition games.

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Horford is an average rebounder (16%) Zaza and Taj Gibson are 16%.
Horford is a [decent not elite] low-post defender man to man, very strong upper body, ala a bigger Chuck Hayes. Chuck Hayes naturally has a lower stronger stance and quicker hands.

Chuck Hayes is a weak azz rebounder, rim protector AND most importantly weak scorer so despite what he did to Horford 1-on-1, I dont want to start hearing about adding him to bad shooters Josh and Horford.

Horford cannot protect the rim – true. but whats funny is he and Tyson Chandler both had the same # of regular season blocks.
Tyson alters shots. Josh before he got fat altered and blocked shots. Cant disagree here.

Horford cannot create his own shot either in the post or on the perimeter (esp off the dribble). So he worked on passing and pick and pop.

I Dont want to hear PR say how he’s going to fill in the gaps when hes already tried and failed there. Did anyone see the FIBA games? Same old same old.

Horford cannot handle the ball in the halfcourt. In transition he’s pretty good. I remember he threaded the needle to Josh once in the regular season.
Then I remember him leading the break (Teague was like youre taking me out of the play, Im the point guard) getting caught in the air. traveling against the Bulls in the 4th quarter in a tight game.

Hes best pushing the ball in transition, Passing to a scorer and cutting away for the rebound. Kind of like Magic Johnson’s goofy little brother.

He stands out in things you’d rather him not.

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Per hoopsworld, Bulls exploring a sign-in-trade with Hawks and packing Ronnie Brewer.

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I would welcome Brewer on this team.

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The rumor says Brewer “plus”.

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Brewer and Bogans locked down Joe and Crawford in the playoffs….

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Can the Hawks afford Brewer’s $4.7M salary AND fill another 2-3 roster spots without going over the luxury line? He’d be a nice addition, I just doubt the financial angle.

I wonder if we could get our hands on Varejao?

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I have always like Ronnie Brewer a solid player, would be and excellent addition with the Hawks.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

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The Hawks can’t play Horford at center his time up playing the middle, power forward is his natural position time have arrive.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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If the Hawks were to sign and trade Jamal to the Bulls, would not this move guarantee that the Hawks would be put into the luxury tax?

If the Hawks are willing to go into the luxury tax for the services of a role player Like Brewer, why not just use the MLE and pick up on one of the decent role players available in free agency? Why help an in-conference rival when there are other options on the table that can get you to very similar results without helping an in-conference rival out?

Deal just does not make sense for the Hawks unless the ‘plus’ part of ‘Ronnie Brewer plus’ includes cash considerations that would be enough to pay the Hawks tax as a result of the deal and/or includes Taj Gibson. I would be willing to pay a little tax for Ronnie Brewer and Taj Gibson, but why on earth would the Bulls package both Brewer and Gibson for JC1?

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I much rather have Josh than iso Joe

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Wish Asik was in this deal…..sigh

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Guys,

I doubt the Hawks go into luxury tax for a role player like Ronnie Brewer. I think rumors of a SNT are just a strategic move by the ASG to give fans the impression that they are trying to improve the team.

I look for the Hawks to sign vet min players to round out the team, and play the wait and see game.

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I may as well get northcyde stirred up.

Josh would be fine with a strong Coach.
Josh & Al work well together.

Regardless of anything said on this blog;
I’m saying not Al,
were bigger, therefore better in my opinion
with Al playing predominately 2 the [4].

With the right Coach – Josh can play both the [3 & the [4].
I think he is well suited fot he [3].
(especially now with his new svelte makeover)
Proper Coaching would keep all the players in the right spots.
[regardless of position] … (it’s really not that complicated)

Trading Joe would & could bring us a SuperDuperStar;
particularly “this year” of all years.

* trading or keeping Joe … either way;
A Strong Coach needs to be brought in.
Joe much like Josh – needs to be *brought in line.
*(with the rest of the team)

Josh and Al are both younger, cheaper, more popular,
and more valuable long term than Joe.

Logic should dictate these decisions.

_____________________________________________

For those on this board who constantly belittle Al,
if I were to put you on a panel of NBA authorities,
and charge all with a discussion of Al Horford,
you guys would be made sport of on a colossal extent.

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My comments have been getting lost in the blog monster.

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Welcome back Grandmaster Jeje. You didn’t miss much.

FIRE LD

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Better yet, I would prefer the rights to the Bobcats pick that Bulls owns(top 14 protected) along with Brewer.

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doc

I’m not a Falcon apologist;
but,
I watched that last offensive play 5 or 6 times.

Julio, flat out dropped the tying (assuming PAT) TD pass,
had both hands on it and couldn’t hold on.

A friend of mine from Bama told me wks ago:
“he’ll drop one from time to time”.

Matty put the ball in his hands.

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“You think they (Bulls) would really consider tossing Asik
into that deal.”

They have to toss in someone to make salaries match. The salary matching rule is not as strict as in the old CBA, but assuming Jamal still commands somewhere near the $10 million per year he got the last two years, the Bulls have to send someone else to the Hawks other than just Brewer. If it’s not Asik, it’s going to have to be Korver or CJ Watson.

I think it is a bit of a long shot for Asik to be thrown in, but between the three of them, he would be ideal. I would definitely prefer him to Korver or Watson (although Korver would help too, and Watson can help in the short term while Hinrich is injured). But on the flip side, if the Hawks are only getting Brewer and Korver/Watson in return, they should ask for a draft pick too.

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Najeh

Asik would solve alot of problems.

Answer alot of questions.

Allow us to keep whomever we want,
[we could trade or maneuver from strength]
rather than trading from weakness.

I would welcome the Big fella.
[more so, than Brewer]

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Why do the Bullls need a SignNTrade when they can just sign Jamal outright?

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Is Ronnie Brewer so much better as a 20 minute/game bench player (which he would likely be for us) than Damien Wilkins? Because the ASG could sign Damien and stay below the luxury tax line while Brewer costs 4X as much and pushes them over.

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My preference: if I’m taking on Ronnie Brewer, I’m moving Marvin. I truly don’t expect any S&T for JC1.

We aren’t getting Asik; he is not going to another EC team unless the Bulls have to big to replace him.

As for bringing in guys as FA, the only FA Sund knows if a FA that will accept the vet minimum or is one step from not being on a league roster.
That trend will continue.

For any changes on this team, one of our captains will have to go. And if you even think you have a smidgen of a chance for Dwight, go ahead and offer Al/Teague/Marvin. And I like Teague a WHOLE lot.

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“@WojYahooNBA: One league official says there are seven NBA teams that have two stretches of 5 games in 6 nights this season. Good luck with that.”

Better hope the Hawks are not one of these teams…

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Is there any way to get Jodie Meeks in here? He has a great stroke and in the final year of a 900K contract.

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Players I would prefer to JC1

Marcus Thornton
Anthony Parker
Reggie Williams

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OB, Sund interviewed me too but I refused anything less than $25,000/year. So they hired LD instead.

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WooT!

We are FINALLY in a commercial!

http://www.sportando.net/tv/eng/7002/new_nba_commercial_20112012_season_nba_is_back_.html

1:52 – 1:53

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I missed this tweet from Jamal on yesterday. I guess it only confirms what we Hawks fans already knew. He’s not resigning with Atlanta…

‘•RT @JCrossover: “@Chico1289: @JCrossover stay in Atlanta!!!”–u can only stay where your wanted’

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RESPONSE: “I may as well get northcyde stirred up. Josh & Al work well together.

Regardless of anything said on this blog;
I’m saying not Al, were bigger, therefore better in my opinion with Al playing predominately 2 the [4].

With the right Coach – Josh can play both the [3 & the [4].I think he is well suited fot he [3].
(especially now with his new svelte makeover) Proper Coaching would keep all the players in the right spots. [regardless of position] … (it’s really not that complicated)

Trading Joe would & could bring us a SuperDuperStar; particularly “this year” of all years.

RESPONSE: “For those on this board who constantly belittle Al, if I were to put you on a panel of NBA authorities,
and charge all with a discussion of Al Horford, you guys would be made sport of on a colossal extent.”

I for one would like to apologize on behalf of those who belittle Al Horford. But he’s not good enough and has been playing next to Zaza Pachulia as far back as 3 years.

* He loses his speed advantage and cant get good position to score against quicker players: see vs Gerald Henderson, Luol Deng vs Ryan Anderson vs Brandon Bass.
* Brandon Bass blocked his shot.
* Check Horford’s free throw attempts.

* He is actually better at center. Smith’s rebounding makes him better as a small forward. He needs a bigger better shooter than Marvin Williams. We need to get bigger. WE KNOW THIS. If Horford’s value is high enough then trade him! INSIDER TRADING? HELLO?

What is #NBArank?

#NBArank is the Twitter hashtag to use if you want to get involved in the discussion or just follow along.

You can also follow along here: @NBAonESPN

How did we rank the players?

We asked 91 experts to rate each player on a 0-to-10 scale, in terms of “the current quality of each player.”

Here is the full list of voters from ESPN.com, the TrueHoop Network, TrueHoop TV, Daily Dime Live, ESPN TV, ESPN Radio, ESPN Deportes, espnW, ESPN The Magazine, ESPN Insider, ESPN Fantasy, ESPN Games, ESPN Dallas, ESPN Los Angeles, ESPN Chicago, ESPN New York, ESPN Stats & Information, ESPN Topics and ESPN Analytics.
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#25 of 500 players
Al Horford
Atlanta Hawks | C | Age: 25
Drafted: 3rd in 2007 (by ATL)
@Al_Horford

#33 of 500 players
Andrew Bogut
Milw. Bucks | C | Age: 26
Drafted: 1st in 2005 (by MIL)
@AndrewMBogut

Horford: 7.80
Bogut: 7.31

Stats say Horford is better because he is more active with his speed and he can play 35mpg on a young losing team. Bogut because of his defensive impact.
Sell Horford on his offense and 35mpg to the Bucks.

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**Always remember that ASG are business men and winning is more profitable.

Hasn’t this been the case in previous years? What’s different in 2011-12?

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For the better part of a decade “Twin” has never been a healthy a full season, nor averaged over 8.0 PER, nor scored over 150 points for a season.

4 ppg would be a 6-7 year high for twin!… An average team scores 90-100ppg. Chemistry issues indeed,

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