Atlanta Hawks: Afternoon notes
Notes contemplated while waiting in an empty gym . . .
- Stopped by Philips Arena today. No players showed up during the couple hours I was there and none were expected. Again, I wouldn’t read too much into it, especially since guys have access to the facilities at any time and don’t need to work out at Philips.
- It turned out Joe and Al were at Philips yesterday to get their physicals but didn’t take the court.
- As you hear the Hawks connected to one free agent or another keep in mind that, like a lot of teams, they can’t be sure of their plans until the CBA is ratified and they know the rules. So take all these rumors with a grain of salt.
- Also, I don’t think the Hawks have decided on their financial plan yet. Hawks officials aren’t commenting because they still are concerned about league fines but I’m hearing they haven’t yet ruled out spending into the luxury tax.
- I wouldn’t look for the Hawks to use the amnesty this year. In fact, I don’t think many teams will use it now unless they are looking for major relief from the luxury tax or can gain cap room (and some teams in the latter category can’t use it because they would drop below the new minimum team salary). The Hawks don’t qualify on either count. They can save it for J.J.’s deal down the line.
- It’s true Josh still is unhappy, and the reasons go beyond internal and external criticism of his play and extend into concerns about team chemistry. It seems as if he simply could use a change of scenery. That doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.
- From what I can tell, none of Atlanta’s players have been declared untouchable for trades. So, at the very least, this would represent a shift in thinking by the Hawks about their proverbial “core” group. But if they do decide to pay the tax to add some significant pieces then it would seem to decrease the urgency of seeking a trade.
- The Hawks will play two exhibition games against the Bobcats, Dec. 19 at Charlotte and Dec. 22 at Philips. The Hawks will hold a free public scrimmage Dec. 16 at 7 :30 p.m. at Philips. If you see me there, come down and holla.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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426 comments Add your comment
doc
December 4th, 2011
8:24 am
so burp, you have now set the record straight. though jj and al are all stars, josh smith is by far our top vote getter for all star honors. hmm, a very interesting perspective and maybe another clue that josh feels, rightly so, that he doesnt get the cred he deserves or some credits that are on others resumes are really bogus. maybe he should be introduced as the hawks top 2011 all star vote getter from now on. so he really is the fan favorite.
wordsmithtom
December 4th, 2011
8:34 am
Sure hope Hawks can outmaneuver Miami for Battie. He would make the 3 friends SICK. We could use his brain, as well as his talent. Bet you arse, JS wouldn’t be jacking all those 3’s with Battie at the 3.
If we can’t get Shane, I say use the midlevel, pay the luxury tax and talk AI into a backup/teaching role. If he could teach JT that crossover and how to defend it, he would be worth it. AI can still play, if he can subjugate his ego to the reality he’s no longer “the star”. I think he’s smart enough to make the transition, and would love to see the Hawks give him the chance.
darrell starks
December 4th, 2011
8:48 am
If coach LD starte Marvin this year i will drink a 40 ounce of red bull and sleep all day, hopefully i be dreaming when wake up.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 4th, 2011
8:57 am
IF NO CHANGES TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, ZAZA,
is okay with me, Teague will make this team 100percent better than previous starting point guard, Bibby and Hinrich SMH.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
brigadierjerry
December 4th, 2011
9:16 am
darrell starks,
A 40 ounce of Red Bull?Why dont you replace the Red Bull with Colt 45 or St Ides?
Buddy Grizzard
December 4th, 2011
9:17 am
FYI peeps I always get blog posts eaten when I use Firefox. I have never had one post get eaten using Google Chrome. At my work we use it because it handles databases far better than Firefox.
“Childress fits this roster and Marvin fits the Suns.” – tjhook
I think what you guys are missing who want Chills back is that he felt disrespected when he had to get a contract overseas. I think the Hawks would have brought him back if he was willing to play for the organization, but I don’t believe he will ever play for the Hawks again.
“JJ is a year older, Horford I dont see getting better. Zaza will be about the same who I like, Marvin will see but do you see a marked improvement. If you were to predict their record for the Hawks how do you see them doing?” – brigadierjerry
I see a huge improvement across the board and I’m predicting 38-27. JJ is older but he’s had time to recover from nagging injuries. He’s in great shape by all accounts. Horford I see major improvement from. When his ball handling ability catches up with his shooting ability, game over. Marvin’s career has been majorly impacted by a bulging disk. We will have to wait and see if he fully recovers. If so, this could be a career year for him in the absense of JC1.
Zaza also, with JC1 out of the picture, will get something closer to proper utilization, unlike the CHI series where he sat for long stretches while less productive players played. Teague could be an optical illusion, due to the bad ankle Derrick Rose played that series on. But if he’s the real deal, and Kirk makes it all the way back from his latest setback, this is a much better team than the team that pushed CHI to Game 6. Other teams will be improved as well, but I think the Hawks are on of the up-and-coming teams in the NBA.
brigadierjerry
December 4th, 2011
9:31 am
Also why is that I always hear other teams looking at free agents but I never ever hear anything as far as the Hawks having interest in any players. I even hear interest in players from small market teams but I never hear anything about the Hawks.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer..Bogut
December 4th, 2011
10:07 am
@brigadierjerry capspace. mutual interest
@Buddy Grizzard Counting Horford’s assists he contributes 22ppg. Horford has shown no shooting ability outside of pick and pop and set shots.
If you contest and make him dribble, he often gets injured trying to score moving towards the basket.
Outside of screening and hoping the guards penetration leaves him wide open. What shooting ability do you speak of? He still can’t even shoot a hook shot over NBA defenders.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
December 4th, 2011
10:51 am
“If you contest and make him dribble, he often gets injured trying to score moving towards the basket.”
Yeah, like twice in 5 years. I guess that’s “often for some.
Some of us know
December 4th, 2011
11:04 am
Red Robin = Big Dog = burp = a multi-named troll that hates Horford and tries to hide his ways so he can stay.
But some of us know.
Dept. Of Reality: Hawks Suck
December 4th, 2011
11:43 am
“If you contest and make him dribble, he often gets injured trying to score moving towards the basket.”
1) He faked Deandre Jordan off on a handoff. Tries to SCORE on a dunk. Injured by Blake Griffin.
2) He catches a theoretical mismatch with 6′1 Mario Chalmers on him pressed up on him. Drives past him. Not long enough or explosive enough to go above the rim so Al goes for a running hook shot.
L2MS twists his ANKLE. Why would Horford drive to the rim or shoot off the dribble? He’s not long enough to dunk it. He’s a center and was never noted for being coordinated enough to hit shots off balance.
Get a guard to drive real hard to the lane and he’ll hit the 2 pointer at a great rate. Unfortunately there is such thing as a low risk high reward, 3 point play and fouls and Horford’s offense is low risk low reward.
Chunky Monkey
December 4th, 2011
11:53 am
Horford is a weak rebounder
Horford is a weak low-post defender
Horford cannot protect the rim
Horford cannot create his own shot either in the post or on the perimeter
Horford cannot handle the ball
All of the 15 footers in the world cannot make up for the above.
The only other thing he seems good at is getting selected to play in meaningless All Star Exhibition games.
Dept. Of Reality: Hawks Suck
December 4th, 2011
11:59 am
* = NBA Youtube Clips of Iso Plays
*Horford High Post: Shooting Off the Dribble (Height Advantage)(Dirk Move)
-sprains ankle, also dude what size shoe does he wear? He has clown feet.
*Stoudemire Crossover from High Post
- uses a crossover to fake out the slower Duncan and then look how his length comes into play on the finish
*Stoudemire High Post
– always using fakes and spins to get the drop (drop step) on the defender forcing the action with his length shooting over people. Sometimes he misses sometimes he makes. Sometimes they call foul. He can shoot over people. Natural fluid length advantage.
Stoudemire
6′10, 9′0 reach, 7′2 wingspan (same span as Tracy McGrady and Darius Miles)
Horford
6′9.75, 8′10 reach, 7′0.75″ wingspan (same span as Kwame and McRoberts and Joakim Noah)
and Amare’s length is actually smaller than a lot of other NBA Power Forwards some active guys: Elton Brand (7′5.5)
David West (7′4.25″) on a 6′9 body)
Chris Bosh (7′3.5) and 6′11.5″ body)
Boozer (7′2.5″)
Al Jefferson (7′2.5″)
Joakim Noah (7′1)
Josh McRoberts (7′1)
Josh Powell (7′1)
Kwame Brown (7′1)
Chris Wilcox (7′1)
Horford (7′0.75) (7′1)
Any smaller you start getting into T-Rex arms players who GENERALLY have naturally developed a lot of finesse guard skills to stand out.
Dept. Of Quantifying Reality: Hawks Suck
December 4th, 2011
12:09 pm
Horford is an average rebounder (16%) Zaza and Taj Gibson are 16%.
Horford is a [decent not elite] low-post defender man to man, very strong upper body, ala a bigger Chuck Hayes. Chuck Hayes naturally has a lower stronger stance and quicker hands.
Chuck Hayes is a weak azz rebounder, rim protector AND most importantly weak scorer so despite what he did to Horford 1-on-1, I dont want to start hearing about adding him to bad shooters Josh and Horford.
Horford cannot protect the rim – true. but whats funny is he and Tyson Chandler both had the same # of regular season blocks.
Tyson alters shots. Josh before he got fat altered and blocked shots. Cant disagree here.
Horford cannot create his own shot either in the post or on the perimeter (esp off the dribble). So he worked on passing and pick and pop.
I Dont want to hear PR say how he’s going to fill in the gaps when hes already tried and failed there. Did anyone see the FIBA games? Same old same old.
Horford cannot handle the ball in the halfcourt. In transition he’s pretty good. I remember he threaded the needle to Josh once in the regular season.
Then I remember him leading the break (Teague was like youre taking me out of the play, Im the point guard) getting caught in the air. traveling against the Bulls in the 4th quarter in a tight game.
Hes best pushing the ball in transition, Passing to a scorer and cutting away for the rebound. Kind of like Magic Johnson’s goofy little brother.
He stands out in things you’d rather him not.
Dept. Of Quantifying Reality: Hawks Suck
December 4th, 2011
12:21 pm
Horford stands out in things you’d rather him not. Passing and deferring. And for the idealistic fans and media, his IQ, when you’d rather have the opposite say a guy like Amare or Bryant who is athletic enough to shoot over you and would never only pass to Josh if triple teamed AND Josh was cutting.
Bryant for Joe Johnson? Salaries should match. SMDH
UGA
December 4th, 2011
3:25 pm
Per hoopsworld, Bulls exploring a sign-in-trade with Hawks and packing Ronnie Brewer.
UGA
December 4th, 2011
3:28 pm
Bulls want Jamal Crawford
Just Joe
December 4th, 2011
4:07 pm
I would welcome Brewer on this team.
UGA
December 4th, 2011
4:16 pm
We are going to need people who can defend LeBron and Wade…
Just Joe
December 4th, 2011
4:23 pm
The rumor says Brewer “plus”.
Big Ray
December 4th, 2011
4:51 pm
Same trollish attempt at rhetoric, but like pearls and swine, some things will never mix well. Nevermind just trading Horford for Dwight or some other dominant center….I’d trade him just so the AJC would shut the damn trolls up…
Moving on to other things, like the trade rumors.
I, too would welcome Ronnie Brewer. He’s not that great on offense, but he can defend like a mutha.
UGA
December 4th, 2011
4:54 pm
Brewer and Bogans locked down Joe and Crawford in the playoffs….
Just Joe
December 4th, 2011
5:02 pm
Hinrich and Brewer would work well together off the bench.
Maybe get the Bulls to throw in Jimmy Butler from this year’s draft.
Astro Joe
December 4th, 2011
5:02 pm
Can the Hawks afford Brewer’s $4.7M salary AND fill another 2-3 roster spots without going over the luxury line? He’d be a nice addition, I just doubt the financial angle.
I wonder if we could get our hands on Varejao?
Big Ray
December 4th, 2011
5:12 pm
http://www.hoopsworld.com/daily-nba-news/
Karl: Nene Most Important Player on Team
December 4, 2011
In his first NBA-related interview since the lockout began, (Denver coach George) Karl spoke to The Denver Post on Saturday aboutan array of topics, from the possibility of signing Nene to his starting lineup to the smartest guy in the league.
Q: What does your gut tell you about the Nuggets’ chances of signing Nene?
A: I’m anxious for my opportunity to recruit him (later this week). I think Nene knows how much I care about him. In a strange way, Nene’s become maybe the most important guy on our team. He’s not a man of big numbers, but he’s a man of big responsibility. I think our young guys need him. We’ve talked a lot (in the past) about how he’d rather play power forward than center, well, I think this is the year he can get that opportunity (with Timofey Mozgov at center). He’s become our veteran leader. I really do think this is the best place for him.
Oh dear. It’s an epidemic. There goes another guy who has played center, wanting to play PF. And there’s a team that made a move that makes it possible. I guess I was wrong. I guess it CAN be done. Or maybe George Karl and his GM are just as dumb as everybody else….
darrell starks
December 4th, 2011
5:15 pm
I have always like Ronnie Brewer a solid player, would be and excellent addition with the Hawks.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Big Ray
December 4th, 2011
5:22 pm
It’s true Josh still is unhappy, and the reasons go beyond internal and external criticism of his play and extend into concerns about team chemistry. It seems as if he simply could use a change of scenery. That doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.
If this is the biggest thing going (and it seems that it is), then you have a choice to make: 1) Trade him away to get rid of an unhappy player that is also a key player, 2) Trade away whoever he thinks is the source of the chemistry problem, 3) do nothing.
Look for #3 to happen….unless there is a split among captains…because that’s apparently who ownership listens to.
When they went to Gearon’s office whining about wanting Drew as their head coach, ownership listened. Now they get to pick between team captains. Who’s opinion means the most? Joe’s, Josh’s, or Al’s? What if two guys team up on a third?
Yeah, yeah, I know. Sounds like a conspiracy theory. But it could be true…
darrell starks
December 4th, 2011
5:27 pm
The Hawks can’t play Horford at center his time up playing the middle, power forward is his natural position time have arrive.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 4th, 2011
5:41 pm
Big Ray i agree, Rick Sund need 2 find out ASAP is Josh unhappy, if so trade him ASAP or he will be a cancer to this team, trade my fav. player will be the destination for the HAWKS if Josh not happy.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
J from the A
December 4th, 2011
5:50 pm
If the Hawks were to sign and trade Jamal to the Bulls, would not this move guarantee that the Hawks would be put into the luxury tax?
If the Hawks are willing to go into the luxury tax for the services of a role player Like Brewer, why not just use the MLE and pick up on one of the decent role players available in free agency? Why help an in-conference rival when there are other options on the table that can get you to very similar results without helping an in-conference rival out?
Deal just does not make sense for the Hawks unless the ‘plus’ part of ‘Ronnie Brewer plus’ includes cash considerations that would be enough to pay the Hawks tax as a result of the deal and/or includes Taj Gibson. I would be willing to pay a little tax for Ronnie Brewer and Taj Gibson, but why on earth would the Bulls package both Brewer and Gibson for JC1?
Astro Joe
December 4th, 2011
5:51 pm
Or you could wait until the trade deadline and hope that trade value increases. Could Josh increase his trade value by being slimmer and healthier? Would someone interested in Howard trade for Josh now and then try and sign Howard later?
The Hawks FO struggled to operate well in the old and known CBA. I can;t imagine that these guys are in position to break up the core effectively with the new CBA this early in the process. Not to mention the off-season sell-off debacle.
Rusty
December 4th, 2011
5:52 pm
I much rather have Josh than iso Joe
TYLER
December 4th, 2011
6:27 pm
I THINK THE HAWKS WILL SALE SALE TICKETS ESPN.COM/ HAWKS TICKETS
RaJaH
December 4th, 2011
6:28 pm
Wish Asik was in this deal…..sigh
niremetal
December 4th, 2011
7:18 pm
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
zzzzz…Huh? What? You woke me up for this? Man, let me go back to sleep. Wake me up when the fan nest is back up.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz………
O'Brien
December 4th, 2011
8:03 pm
Guys,
I doubt the Hawks go into luxury tax for a role player like Ronnie Brewer. I think rumors of a SNT are just a strategic move by the ASG to give fans the impression that they are trying to improve the team.
I look for the Hawks to sign vet min players to round out the team, and play the wait and see game.
Big Ray
December 4th, 2011
8:19 pm
AJ ,
Hate to admit to the reality of it, but well said.
Lol @ Niremetal …
Grandad
December 4th, 2011
8:48 pm
I may as well get northcyde stirred up.
Josh would be fine with a strong Coach.
Josh & Al work well together.
Regardless of anything said on this blog;
I’m saying not Al,
were bigger, therefore better in my opinion
with Al playing predominately 2 the [4].
With the right Coach – Josh can play both the [3 & the [4].
I think he is well suited fot he [3].
(especially now with his new svelte makeover)
Proper Coaching would keep all the players in the right spots.
[regardless of position] … (it’s really not that complicated)
Trading Joe would & could bring us a SuperDuperStar;
particularly “this year” of all years.
* trading or keeping Joe … either way;
A Strong Coach needs to be brought in.
Joe much like Josh – needs to be *brought in line.
*(with the rest of the team)
Josh and Al are both younger, cheaper, more popular,
and more valuable long term than Joe.
Logic should dictate these decisions.
_____________________________________________
For those on this board who constantly belittle Al,
if I were to put you on a panel of NBA authorities,
and charge all with a discussion of Al Horford,
you guys would be made sport of on a colossal extent.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 4th, 2011
8:51 pm
Been gone for a minute this weekend, but
FIRE SUND
Ra'mon
December 4th, 2011
9:15 pm
My comments have been getting lost in the blog monster.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 4th, 2011
10:52 pm
Ronnie Brewer wouldn’t be a bad player to get in return for Jamal. He can’t shoot, but he is a good defender and doesn’t need plays run for him to contribute.
Salaries probably won’t match though. If the Bulls would also throw in Asik that would be fantastic.
Worldwide Clyde
December 4th, 2011
11:03 pm
Welcome back Grandmaster Jeje. You didn’t miss much.
FIRE LD
Melvin
December 4th, 2011
11:37 pm
I’m ok with a Crawford S&T for Brewer and Asik or a 2012 1st round pick which is suppose to be a deep draft……
Melvin
December 4th, 2011
11:42 pm
Better yet, I would prefer the rights to the Bobcats pick that Bulls owns(top 14 protected) along with Brewer.
doc
December 5th, 2011
12:04 am
falcons suck!
Grandad
December 5th, 2011
12:16 am
doc
I’m not a Falcon apologist;
but,
I watched that last offensive play 5 or 6 times.
Julio, flat out dropped the tying (assuming PAT) TD pass,
had both hands on it and couldn’t hold on.
A friend of mine from Bama told me wks ago:
“he’ll drop one from time to time”.
Matty put the ball in his hands.
Grandad
December 5th, 2011
12:19 am
Najeh
You think they (Bulls) would really consider tossing Asik
into that deal.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 5th, 2011
12:36 am
“You think they (Bulls) would really consider tossing Asik
into that deal.”
They have to toss in someone to make salaries match. The salary matching rule is not as strict as in the old CBA, but assuming Jamal still commands somewhere near the $10 million per year he got the last two years, the Bulls have to send someone else to the Hawks other than just Brewer. If it’s not Asik, it’s going to have to be Korver or CJ Watson.
I think it is a bit of a long shot for Asik to be thrown in, but between the three of them, he would be ideal. I would definitely prefer him to Korver or Watson (although Korver would help too, and Watson can help in the short term while Hinrich is injured). But on the flip side, if the Hawks are only getting Brewer and Korver/Watson in return, they should ask for a draft pick too.
tjhook
December 5th, 2011
1:09 am
Place me in the support box of a sign and trade for Ronnie Brewer
Grandad
December 5th, 2011
2:37 am
Najeh
Asik would solve alot of problems.
Answer alot of questions.
Allow us to keep whomever we want,
[we could trade or maneuver from strength]
rather than trading from weakness.
I would welcome the Big fella.
[more so, than Brewer]