Atlanta Hawks: Afternoon notes
Notes contemplated while waiting in an empty gym . . .
- Stopped by Philips Arena today. No players showed up during the couple hours I was there and none were expected. Again, I wouldn’t read too much into it, especially since guys have access to the facilities at any time and don’t need to work out at Philips.
- It turned out Joe and Al were at Philips yesterday to get their physicals but didn’t take the court.
- As you hear the Hawks connected to one free agent or another keep in mind that, like a lot of teams, they can’t be sure of their plans until the CBA is ratified and they know the rules. So take all these rumors with a grain of salt.
- Also, I don’t think the Hawks have decided on their financial plan yet. Hawks officials aren’t commenting because they still are concerned about league fines but I’m hearing they haven’t yet ruled out spending into the luxury tax.
- I wouldn’t look for the Hawks to use the amnesty this year. In fact, I don’t think many teams will use it now unless they are looking for major relief from the luxury tax or can gain cap room (and some teams in the latter category can’t use it because they would drop below the new minimum team salary). The Hawks don’t qualify on either count. They can save it for J.J.’s deal down the line.
- It’s true Josh still is unhappy, and the reasons go beyond internal and external criticism of his play and extend into concerns about team chemistry. It seems as if he simply could use a change of scenery. That doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.
- From what I can tell, none of Atlanta’s players have been declared untouchable for trades. So, at the very least, this would represent a shift in thinking by the Hawks about their proverbial “core” group. But if they do decide to pay the tax to add some significant pieces then it would seem to decrease the urgency of seeking a trade.
- The Hawks will play two exhibition games against the Bobcats, Dec. 19 at Charlotte and Dec. 22 at Philips. The Hawks will hold a free public scrimmage Dec. 16 at 7 :30 p.m. at Philips. If you see me there, come down and holla.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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426 comments Add your comment
Rusty
December 3rd, 2011
3:41 pm
Let’s face it we already have three strikes against us having a idiot for a head coach, reminds me of Cain.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
December 3rd, 2011
4:04 pm
“Let’s face it we already have three strikes against us having a idiot for a head coach, reminds me of Cain.”
Is Rusty short for “Abel”?
Ken Strickland
December 3rd, 2011
4:08 pm
Yes, I’m back, and thanks for the welcome everyone. I’m fully recovered from my prostate surgery, and I’ve replaced my big DOBE girl, who I had to put to sleep, with a 6 month old little DOBE man. So all is good right now.
SAUTEE-I tried to post 2 responses to you earlier, but they were eaten by the Blog monster. The loss of Hinrich really hurts. But a starting lineup of SG-JJ, PG-JTeague, SF-MWilliams, PF-JSmith, and OC-Horford, with a bench of C-ZPachulia, C/PFs-MRolle/Benson, and SG/PG Pape Sy aint bad. But we’ll need to add a PG, or combo guard, to replace Hinrich, a scorer/shooter to replace JCrawford, and probably another BIG.
Again, I think Childress would be a big addition to the team. He has a good shooting percentage, FT percentage, drives to the basket, plays PG/SG/SF, plays good DEF, rebounds of both ends, and is the total team player. He’s the kind of glue we really need. He might not have the overall scoring ability that MWilliams has, but he will give us far more consistency.
I’ll guarantee you he won’t disappear during gms, or for stretches at a time like Marvin. And Marvin can do what he does best coming off the bench. He’d provide us with a lot more versatility and scoring potential than DWilkins.
brigadierjerry
December 3rd, 2011
4:25 pm
At face value this team isnt as bad as some may make it seem but to me coaching is a big problem with this team. If they would’ve shelled out some more money they might’ve gotten Avery Johnson or even Dwayne Casey I would’ve preferred then Larry Drew. I agree that if Woodson had this team in the playoffs against the Bulls I think they beat the Bulls. It is more accountability with this team more than anything and knowing their roles.
This Hawks team reminds me of those early 2000’s Kings teams and I know they got robbed in 2002 against the Lakers in the Conference Finals but they were good offensive teams. They could never go over the hump and then Weber was gone and Divac and the team broke down. They tried to make changes but by then it was too late and the team has been rebuilding ever since.
I am not saying the Hawks are eventually gonna get bad after a few years because the Hawks core is still young but after years and years and looking forward not possibly not even getting to a Eastern Conference Finals then it may be time to move on with this group and make changes.
Smith next to ask for trade? | SportsRelease
December 3rd, 2011
4:29 pm
[...] The Atlanta Hawks beat writer, Michael Cunningham, for ajc.com had a few things to say about the matter today. [...]
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 3rd, 2011
4:39 pm
Camp Life!
Hey Ken Strick! I thought you had got that tent, the dog and the generator and headed for the hills without me.
But, I’m glad to see you are still around and haven’t forgotten about your old lady. (smiles)
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
4:45 pm
2010-11 record: 44-38
Finish: Third in Southeast Division
Playoffs: Defeated Orlando in Eastern Conference first round (4-2), lost to Chicago in Eastern Conference semifinals (4-2)
Strengths: With a nucleus that hasn’t changed much in six years, these guys are as familiar to each other as socks and sneakers. We’re talking Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams and Al Horford, four players who can all play more than one position. They’ve made the Hawks a steady 45-win team by growing together and staying healthy.
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Challenges: Did we mention the Hawks are good for 45 wins? That means they’re stuck in a comfortable rut, unable to make a clean break for a championship run with the personnel on hand. Would a roster shakeup, meaning a trade of Smith or Horford, help in that regard? New ownership, anxious to win over the fans right away, would’ve been willing to take a shot, but the sale last summer fell through.
Outlook: In street terms, the Hawks be what they be. They’re too good to rise or fall far from their present perch, which will continue to make them semi-interesting but not solid enough to captivate the rest of the NBA or even the sports scene in Atlanta. Expect more of the same-old, same-old from this consistent crew.
This could make a difference: Jeff Teague took over the point guard duties when Kirk Hinrich pulled up lame right before the playoffs and was a silver lining, delivering some solid performances when he bruised MVP Derrick Rose’s ego. If that was the real Teague and not a tease, then all the Hawks need now is a competent big man (via trade?) to form a solid starting five.
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
5:01 pm
NBA Trade Speculation: The Best Landing Spot for 7 Major Names on the Block
By
Daniel Christian
(Correspondent) on August 15, 2011
Dwight Howard: Atlanta Hawks
The Atlanta Hawks are one piece away from contending for an NBA championship, and that is the most important piece there is: a superstar.
While the center position is Atlanta’s most gaping hole, snagging Andrew Bynum in a Lakers trade won’t quite do the trick, especially if they have to lose Al Horford or Josh Smith for it.
Howard won’t want to come home to Atlanta unless his AAU buddy, Josh Smith, is there. So while Smith may be a major trade piece that Orlando wants in return, the Hawks would be more inclined to deal Al Horford to keep a content Dwight Howard in Atlanta.
A Marvin Williams-and-Al Horford-for-Dwight Howard trade makes plenty of sense for both sides (only for Orlando if Howard demands to be traded). The Magic may lose their second incredibly dominant center in 20 years, but at least in return they get a two-time All-Star who is truly on the fringe of becoming something more. Paired with him is an athletic wing who has struggled to live up to the hype of a second overall pick, but is serviceable nonetheless (only if he finally learns not to shoot with his heels on the three-point line—worst shot in basketball).
The Hawks then have a roster ready to compete with Miami’s, and a roster that would be a force for years to come.
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
5:06 pm
I would be inclined to think that Mark Bradley has a good thought!
http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/06/21/al-horford-for-superman-should-the-hawks-make-that-offer/
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
5:06 pm
Sautee, im not sure what you call negative is analysis of facts. Whats more Im talking about the writers and guess dignitaries like Mr. Cunningham, Big Ray and Doc. Thats a pro Horford camp. The rest of us are reactive to the writers publications not pro active.
I find it strange that I’m part of a pro-Horford camp when I repeatedly called all last season for Horford to get back to the guy who we knew in his first 2 or 3 seasons. I and my so-called “dignitary” colleagues have also been heavily critical of Joe Johnson and Josh Smith, and anybody else in a Hawks uniform, including the “here one day, gone the next, back again, disappeared again” Marvin Williams.
But no….I know what the real issue is here, and it’s always been the same issue. Some people refuse to take analysis and criticism of their favorite player as just that – analysis and criticism. Some people will worship Jeff Teague after one mostly great playoff series. Others will look at Josh Smith for one or two playoff games and proclaim him the franchise’s savior (never mind the fact that the franchise has yet to be saved). Others will find somebody else to worship. Here’s the laydown, so we can stop with all this “pro-this player camp” BS:
Joe Johnson – doesn’t play hard on both sides of the court all the time but is STILL the team’s best player.
Jeff Teague – clearly more talented than given credit for, but still unknown. Can he play like he did against Chicago last post season….ALL the time?
Al Horford – forgot his rugged ways (and so have many fans), and now looks to play the 4, which isn’t helping us without a starting quality or 25 mpg center. Don’t know if we can get his mentality reversed, and if we can’t – it may be time to move him…but ONLY if we can get a solid pivot man in return. Otherwise it’s a dumb move (unless you’re getting some sort of superstar at another position). Still the team’s best rebounder by a margin. Is a body and position defender, not a rim defender (won’t block shots of same size or bigger players very often, but denies position as well as anybody except when facing the biggest/heaviest pivot guys.) Deserves every accolade and award he’s been given (all nba, all-star).
Josh Smith – the single most talented person on the team. Yes, there’s a distinct difference between being the BEST player on the team, and being the MOST TALENTED. Another mentality victim, Josh lacks the skills to be a 3 in all expected aspects, and lacks the committment to play the game in a way that will allow him to dominate. He takes a ton of perimeter shots that he shouldn’t (and lacks the skill to make on even a semi-consistent basis), and even after dominating at the rim on both ends of the floor, simply won’t repeat the performance from game to game. Is the team’s biggest cheerleader, supports his teammates like no other.
Marvin Williams – has no real role on the team, and plays like it. Will show up as a versatile player on some nights. Won’t notice him at all on other nights. Another mental enigma in some ways.
Sautee
December 3rd, 2011
5:14 pm
Nice post, Ray.
Well that’s two down, Ray and doc, who have denied the “pro-Horford” bias. Maybe the blog is lass pro Horford than some might think.
And that’s ok. There’s LOTS of space in this room for opinions.
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
5:15 pm
Big Dog ,
I’d be all over that trade. How’s that for a “pro Horford” accolyte?
Here are the tricks to this, however….
1) Gotta scrap Larry Drew’s offensive scheme. Isn’t going to work with Howard in the mix.
2) Run the offense off of Howard down low, and Joe Johnson on the perimeter. Even the vaunted Celtics defense (or the Bulls) can stop that. But even if they could slow it down, they’d still have to deal with Josh Smith. Which leads me to the next point –
3) Somebody must convince Josh Smith to commit to rebounding next to whoever is playing center. He can defend the rim, but he can also defend outside the paint (gambles a bit too much sometimes, but that can be curbed just a bit). On the offensive end, he has to commit to slashing to the rim and taking the 15-18 foot jumper if he’s going to take jumpers. We can’t expect him to do a lot of work down low with Dwight on the team, but that does NOT mean he can’t still score at the rim, where he BY FAR, does his best work. Heck, if Rashard Lewis could have fit the above critera to an extent, the Magic would still be in the NBA Finals every year. But Rashard has never been that kind of player. Smith can be.
4) Jeff Teague has to become a better shooter from the outside. And trade Marvin for a wing that will make outside shots consistently. The Magic were at their best when feeding Dwight for close-in scores, and when you tried collapsing on him, they’d feed their snipers. The Hawks have one sniper in Joe, but they need more, if they get Dwight.
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
5:20 pm
Even the vaunted Celtics defense (or the Bulls) can stop that.
Meant to say “CAN’T stop that”.
And for the record, I was one of the biggest, unabashed Josh Smith fans for years (ask anybody that’s been around these blogs for 4-6 years). And then one day I realized that he just doesn’t get it, and that he needs a better coach. An NBA veteran head coach. Somebody who can mix force with finesse when dealing with him. Because it takes a mixture. You can’t just use force (Mike Woodson), and you can’t use just finesse (Larry Drew….in the beginning). You need somebody with a true talent for coaching.
But we gotta hire that guy, first. Funny thing is, all of our players need that. Especially Joe Johnson and Al Horford.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
December 3rd, 2011
5:21 pm
“Maybe the blog is lass pro Horford than some might think.”
Horford’s a lass? vava74 would say that explains a lot.
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
5:31 pm
LOL…..this guy is hilarious….
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
5:55 pm
You pro horford cronies masquerading as fair and non partial remind me of slick willy
‘” I did not have sex with that woman”
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
December 3rd, 2011
6:02 pm
Big Dog,
While I am a Horford fan, I’m ALSO a Josh fan and a Hawks fan. I don’t get this idea that one MUST choose between them. What does “non-partial” mean when you are a fan of the name on the FRONT of the jersey?
I’m NOT a big JJ fan, but I root like hell for him when he excels and get on his ass when loafs. Just like I do for Josh and Al.
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
6:13 pm
Mr. Ray on another not I think you miss the point. Getting another center so Horford can move over to the 4 is idiotic… why should we weaken the play at power forward to accommodate Horford’s demands? Josh is a better power forward than Al, so why should he give up his position to Al because Al wants it? Al moving to the 4 has proven to be a burst, by forcing every body out of position and disrupting the flow of the offense. Al is not as good as Josh when it comes to play power forward. So why should josh move??? Should it be that if Al cant handle his position he should be replaced?
Would that make you unhappy if you played a position extremely well and you were forced to give up your position to accommodate a whiner who cant play the position as well? Al moving to the 4 makes us a weaker team, as does moving Josh to the 3 position and out of the low post. Why take our best defender out of range of the post? I sure hopes a light bulb comes on or something. Its dark “up in here”
Either Al steps up to the 5 with his whole heart or gets traded for a center that will. Why should we take a step backward putting Al in Josh’s position?
I could understand the logic if Al were better than Josh, but hes not, not even close. So why should Josh move? Excuse me?
Id be unhappy too.
The engineers of these type of idiotic moves are the same ones that brought you Larry Drew. I think you guys are intent on destroying Atlanta Franchises with this stupidity….
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
6:15 pm
**on another note
when it comes to playing
Ken Strickland
December 3rd, 2011
6:21 pm
Some of the fans who continue to make these trade suggestions don’t seem to realize that it takes more than their wishful and delusional thinking to make these trades take place. It takes the agreement of both teams, and in some cases the player, or players involved. Also, only a complete fool would consider any trade that would potentially wreak the franchise. And giving up 2-3 Allstar, or Allstar caliber starters, for a player who will most likely bolt the team after the 66gm season ends.
THIS IS NOT A FANTASY FOOTBALL BLOG, SO STOP WITH ALL THESE FANTASY TRADE SUGGESTIONS, PLEASE! Just imagine, if you will, someone consistently criticizing AHorford for alledgedly having numerous shortcomings and liabilities. Then imagine that same individual foolishly expecting another team to accept Horford, along with all of his alledged shortcomings and liabilities, in trade for the NBA’s most dominant player.
You can’t have it both ways, no matter how hard you try.
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
6:53 pm
“These trade suggestions don’t seem to realize that it takes more than their wishful and delusional thinking to make these trades take place…
… foolishly expecting another team to accept Horford, along with all of his alledged,(alleged) shortcomings and liabilities, in trade for the NBA’s most dominant player.” – ken strickland
Mark Bradley
Al Horford for Superman: Should the Hawks make that offer?
11:15 am June 21, 2011, by Mark Bradley
Dwight Howard has said he’ll opt out of his contract and become an unrestricted free agent next summer. Otis Smith, Orlando’s general manager, has said he won’t trade Howard and believes the NBA’s best center can be persuaded to re-up with the Magic. Other NBA clubs won’t sit around and wait. They’ll make offers for Howard.
Should the Hawks make an offer?
They could make a tantalizing one: Al Horford and Kirk Hinrich for Howard and power forward Ryan Anderson. That’s an All-NBA center (third team) with a Florida background who’s under contract through 2016 for a reasonable $12 million per season and a useful guard whose contract expires in 2012. The Magic could make something of that.
Or this: Josh Smith and Marvin Williams for the same two Magic men. That’s two starters — we’ll say for the sake of argument that Williams still qualifies — who are 25 years old and who are under contract through at least 2013. That’s not bad, either.
http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/06/21/al-horford-for-superman-should-the-hawks-make-that-offer/
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
6:57 pm
Dept. Of Unintended Irony just a thought, are you an Atlanta fan, or an Atlanta hawks fan? Can you be both? Can one trump the other?
Just a clarifying line of questions if you will.
brigadierjerry
December 3rd, 2011
7:04 pm
Mr Strickland,
Good to see you are back on the blog. God Bless. How do you see the Hawks going this year?Do you see them making moves whether major or minor or standing pat?
Rufus1
December 3rd, 2011
7:05 pm
” I agree that if Woodson had this team in the playoffs against the Bulls I think they beat the Bulls”- brigadierjerry
Thank you….I needed that laugh.
Woodson has the worst playoff series lose in the history of the NBA….In what world would he have beat the Bulls – Bizaro World
Josh Smith Unhappy?
December 3rd, 2011
7:07 pm
[...] the hump. A lot of the criticism has fallen on Josh Smith and apparently he is none to pleased. According to Michael Cunningham of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Smith is unhappy with the way he has been scrutinized and may want a change in [...]
Melvin
December 3rd, 2011
7:11 pm
“Forward Josh Smith showed up for voluntary workouts Thursday looking noticeably leaner. He said he lost 30 pounds by working out and playing in a pro-am league in Los Angeles and in local pickup games with fellow pros.”
He may have said a few things that upset some folks on here but you can’t question his work ethic….
doc
December 3rd, 2011
7:26 pm
marvin and al for deeewight, yes go dog, yes in a flash. id yake josh jj and dh agsinst dwade queen and bosh and take my chances. pnly need ownership to get er dun.
doc
December 3rd, 2011
7:32 pm
wow my sentiments exactly as dept sadly i was a big jj fan until woody allowed him to pound the ball like it waz three yards anda cloud of dust offense.
Ken Strickland
December 3rd, 2011
7:34 pm
BRIGADIERJERRY-What’s up, and welcome back yourself my friend. I don’t see us making any major moves. I seriously doubt if there will be a single player available to us in trade that we could trade Josh, Al or JJ straight up for that would provide anything close to what they provide. And I also doubt if there will be anyone available to us that would be worth any 2 of our top 3-4 players.
I see us making moves to strengthen our bench and provide us with more of the things we were missing last yr off our bench. Things like better shooting/scoring, rebounding, DEF, versatility and athleticism. We need more of those things than we got last yr from DWilkins, EThomas, JPowell, and twin.
How successful we are at getting this done will determine how successful our season will be. Also, the fact that ownership has stated a willingness to go into luxury tax territory doesn’t mean they’ll trade for some high priced player. It might mean they are willing to pay a luxury tax, and utilize the amnesty rule, at some point to replace JJ and his contract.
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
7:42 pm
BIG DOG,
You’re kidding, right? Not only did I NOT say that we should go get a center so Al could move to the 4, I stated most clearly that if Al can’t commit to playing the center position, we should probably trade him. What I said is that we can’t succeed with Al at the 4, because we don’t have another center on the squad who can log serious minutes at the 5 and hold his own against the better guys at the position. That does not suggest that we go looking for one. Furthermore, why would I want Josh to move from the 4? The only place he could go is the 3, and that would be a disaster.
Seriously, you’re trying to make the Al vs. Josh at the PF position? You may as well be talking to the air with that one, I want no parts of it. What I want is for Al to play like he did in his first two years in the NBA, and for Josh to play like a 4, instead of acting like a 3. If both guys will do that, we’re a team to contend. But as it stands right now, neither guy will commit to the position he plays best at.
Al might be good with that 18 foot jumper, but he needs to play the 5, and play it ruggedly, the way he used to.
Josh stinks with his “just inside the 3 point line” jumper, and needs to commit to rebounding and scoring at the rim. He almost can’t be stopped when it comes to scoring inside, finishing in transition, and using that shake and bake to take other PFs off the dribble and finish at the rim. But does he do that every night? No. He goes out and tries to be Rashard Lewis.
There is no reason why Al Horford can’t pump out 14-15 ppg and 10 rpg at the center position. If only he’d commit to it.
There is no reason why Josh Smith can’t pump out 18 ppg and 10 rpg at the power forward position. If only he’d commit to it.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
December 3rd, 2011
7:44 pm
“Dept. Of Unintended Irony just a thought, are you an Atlanta fan, or an Atlanta hawks fan? Can you be both? Can one trump the other?”
Let’s just say that if I were a Piston fan, I wouldn’t be an Auburn Hills fan. Is that clear enough?
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
7:46 pm
Somebody must convince Josh Smith to commit to rebounding next to whoever is playing center. He can defend the rim, but he can also defend outside the paint (gambles a bit too much sometimes, but that can be curbed just a bit). On the offensive end, he has to commit to slashing to the rim and taking the 15-18 foot jumper if he’s going to take jumpers. We can’t expect him to do a lot of work down low with Dwight on the team, but that does NOT mean he can’t still score at the rim, where he BY FAR, does his best work. Heck, if Rashard Lewis could have fit the above critera to an extent, the Magic would still be in the NBA Finals every year. But Rashard has never been that kind of player. Smith can be.
Yeah, that definitely sounds like me campaigning for Horford to play the 4, and for Josh to play the 3.
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
7:53 pm
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
7:46 pm
I can say I would love to see that vision realized. I can only imagine what that would be like to see Howard and Josh taking the ATL to the championship… And no doubt that team could compete favorably with Miami, Boston, Lakers…anybody.
But yall aint gonna let that happen.. This is the same press that brought us Larry Drew.
I think Im going to put up my Christmas tree now.
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
7:54 pm
Al Horford – forgot his rugged ways (and so have many fans), and now looks to play the 4, which isn’t helping us without a starting quality or 25 mpg center. Don’t know if we can get his mentality reversed, and if we can’t – it may be time to move him…but ONLY if we can get a solid pivot man in return.
Gee…sounds like I suggested that if Al can’t get his mind re-wrapped around playing center, then we should trade him. But I wouldn’t say that, now would I?
On another note, I wonder why there seems to be no response to Smith playing out on the perimeter too much?
Are we seriously going to suggest that this is all Horford’s fault? Oh yes, that’s what it MUST be. Horford wanted to play the 4, so Larry Drew (wait, I thought he was the HEAD COACH) made it happen, and that just forced Josh Smith to take a bunch of ill-fated jumpers all season long.
I’m waiting for someone to show me the article written to explain that one. Funny, all the ones I’ve read are about Josh arguing with Mike Woodson about shooting jumpers. And then Josh arguing with Larry Drew about shooting jumpers. And then Josh arguing with the fans about shooting jumpers. And the fans booing Josh during games and yelling “Noooooooo!” when he lines up for one. And then Josh saying he doesn’t hear that during games. And then Josh saying he’s tired of being criticized and his other teammates don’t get criticized as much.
But no articles on Al Horford causing all of this to happen by forcing everybody out of position. Nope, not one. I guess it’s a world wide conspiracy to shamelessly bash Josh for playing like a 3 when he was penciled in at the 4, and to let Horford play the 4.
Gosh, if Horford is this good, the CIA should hire him. Like, right now.
Meanwhile, Josh is the biggest victim of an undeserved beatdown since Rodney King.
You heard it here first (actually, you’ve already heard it elsewhere…)
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
7:56 pm
But yall aint gonna let that happen.. This is the same press that brought us Larry Drew.
I think Im going to put up my Christmas tree now.
Been saying that for too long, and so have most people here. Welcome back to life with the ASG. It has nothing to do with the press and everything to do with the lackwit ownership. They hired a yes man in Sund, and then they went the cheapest way possible while still making the players happy (Drew).
Until they grow a set (unlikely) or leave….we’re screwed. I sure wish we could call the pizza guy back and make this work somehow.
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
7:57 pm
And with that I’m out…enough directionless conversation for one night.
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
8:00 pm
Mr. Ray Im sorry if you miss all of last year, but when Al started whining about playing the 4 and his pappy Tito joined in with it, Drew relented and banished Josh to the 3. Josh did not volunteer or request to move to the 3 like you insinuate and part of the reason he wants to leave is because your ” team Horford” wants him gone so horford can have the 4.
I just posted an article on the possible trade that clears documented the scenario. This whole thing is about who gets to play the 4 spot.
But of course the great Mr. Ray knows that…
are you kidding?
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
8:01 pm
** clearly documents the scenario.
Sautee
December 3rd, 2011
8:07 pm
Big Dog,
Since you are so good at posting articles that clearly document scenarios, please post the article where you claim Horford is “whining about playing the 4″.
I don’t recall whining of any kind by Horford, but I’m sure that your posting skills can show me the error of my ways. Thanks.
SteveW
December 3rd, 2011
8:11 pm
If Josh were in many cities – say Philadelphia or numerous other cities, and played like he did at times last season, he would be run out of town. He get’s somewhat of a pass because he’s a hometown guy.
Now if he played like he did his last season under Woody, and came in 2nd in DPY, he would be an incredible marketing hero, with his dunking ability. He’s the closest thing to a Human Highlight reel we’ve had since ‘Nique.
IF Woody and LD could be combined into 1 human being, they would make a pretty good NBA Head Coach.
SteveW
December 3rd, 2011
8:12 pm
I could imagine Josh chucking up bricks in NY….
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 3rd, 2011
8:14 pm
Analaphor!
“btw dr mary b, awesome analogy and just wasnt sure where you were going there for a second.”-doc-
______________
Hey doc, wassup? Yeah my friend, I went into Gregg Anthony mode there. I love his analaphors on NBA TV and, boy do I miss those guys and the commentators on TNT as well.
Hey doc, I’m just so sick about the sale that fell through, I feel teased and tortured by this ownership group. Perhaps Marvin and I can come see you and get some acupuncture therapy for our ailments? LOL
_____________
Kenny Strickland, thanks for the medical update. I’m so sorry you’ve had to deal with everything and I pray and hope they got all the bad stuff removed from your body. Sorry you lost your Lady Dobe and hope the new “best friend” keeps you going and happy. I Love you dearly and think/pray of/for you every day. You really make the blog something special.
______________
SlimJr baby! Where you at – man you are so damned funny. I laugh so hard when you get on a roll. Keep those enthusiastic posts coming – you are the comedian. You keeps it fun!
Great comments, I’ve enjoyed reading all of them. Especially:
Blu-Ray, doc, Najeh Davenpoop, Grandmaster JeJe, Worldwide Clyde, Grand-Daddy, Briggs, northcyde, darrell starks, Astro Joe, Sautee, Ken Strickland, DUI, big dave, Rod from CP, big dog … & MC.
I know I’m leaving someone off – sorry!
Too Much Good Stuff!
SteveW
December 3rd, 2011
8:15 pm
I look at it as a good sign Al was in Cal. with Josh for awhile.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 3rd, 2011
8:19 pm
Roll Call:
Kevin M
Stever W
Melvin
Ramon
And, it just don’t stop, (good stuff).
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
8:20 pm
Ok there are many articles, including a couple here in the AJC, and although he rarely make a direct comment he lets others speak for him, including writers. Heres an excerpt that was recently published on NBA PM.
When you finish reading it dont argue with me, go argue with the publishers. Good night Mr. Ray and Mr Sautee. And good night to all the other dignitaries.
When the Hawks walked off the floor at the end of the playoffs last season there was a strong feeling that Josh Smith had played his last game as a Hawk. Not because he’s not enormously talented, and not because the Hawks are just dying to unload him, but more because Al Horford wants to play the four spot and the Hawks have no hope of trading Joe Johnson’s crazy contract. Smith had also become a convenient scapegoat for the team consistently falling short of expectations, and his irritation with that had him saying he felt he needed to move on from the situation. The Hawks had discussions with the LA Clippers about Chris Kaman, but the Clippers didn’t feel Smith could fill their primary need for a starting three, and they certainly don’t need a starting power forward with Blake Griffin in the house.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/806351-nba-trade-rumors-the-best-landing-spot-for-each-major-name-on-the-block#/articles/806351-nba-trade-rumors-the-best-landing-spot-for-each-major-name-on-the-block/page/5
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
8:35 pm
BIG DOG,
Your argument, sordid as it is, points to Larry Drew being the problem, not Al Horford. If a head coach can’t get guys to play their own positions, then he shouldn’t be the head coach, plain and simple. I recall everything that Horford said last season, including all the articles where he said he would like some bigger guy in there to play with him in the post, but that he realized he would be logging the majority of the minutes at center. Unfortunately, he did not PLAY with this attitude nearly enough, and it did hurt us.
As far as “all of this being about who plays the 4″, appartently you missed all the comments from Josh Smith about how well he and Al played together. But don’t let facts stop you.
I’m willing to buy into the whole thing about two guys playing the 4, but I have yet to see a single comment from Josh Smith about not wanting to play on the perimeter, and wanting to get back to the 4 spot.
Ignore it all you want, buy into whatever conspiracy theory that fits your fancy…the fact is, Josh Smith plays on the perimeter because he wants to. He did it under Mike Woodson and drove him crazy. And guess what? That was while Horford played center FULL TIME. So explain to me how his issues are due to “Larry banishing him to the SF spot”? I’ll wait. I realize you think Josh is perfect and just a victim. That’s okay, I used to be a mindless fanatic, too. But myopia doesn’t suit me well.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 3rd, 2011
8:38 pm
Geemack from yesterday:
MC
What’s the culture like around the organization?
I heard D. Rose say the Bull are looking to win it all.
I heard Bosh say the Heat want to win it all.
I heard the Melo & Amare talk about winning it all this year.
Are the leader for the Hawks JJ, Josh, and Al, even putting the expectations out there for this to be a championship team?
How is it that the Bulls have jumped us in the championship expectation?
The Hawks have just as much talent as the Bulls, but yet the same expectations are not place on the Hawks.
—–
Great points. Rod says he has NEVERNheard Marvin say “I want to be an All Star”
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
8:39 pm
What’s funny is, I can’t say enough times that Horford’s problem is his mentality. But if I say Josh has mental committment issues too, then the dog starts barking it’s arse off….
SteveW ,
Thankyou for making sense and echoing the FACTS that every major (and minor) sportswriter and a host of fans have seen.
In the meantime, I agree that it’s good that Josh and Al have worked out together some. What we need is the kind of chemistry those two had in the 2008 playoffs against the Celtics. They were straight KILLIN’ it out there.
That was back when Al was a 5 and wanted to be, and Josh was a 4 and wanted to be. If only we could get back to that….those two are the key to us winning a LOT. And to think that it doesn’t come down to BOTH of them doing what this team needs is folly. It ain’t one or the other. It’s BOTH. Always has been, always will be.
Big Ray
December 3rd, 2011
8:41 pm
If Josh were in many cities – say Philadelphia or numerous other cities, and played like he did at times last season, he would be run out of town. He get’s somewhat of a pass because he’s a hometown guy.
Oh stop it. You’re antagonizing Josh’s BIG DOG.
Sometimes I just can’t help myself. Don’t take it personally, BIG DOG.
Dawg
December 3rd, 2011
8:45 pm
Hail to Hortford! Hail to Hortford! Let’s keep him happy and let him play the PF position. Hot Dog, he can be average at the PF position. No worries to the needs of the team. Let’s make Hortford Happy. Let’s let him shoot and not have to actually bang and help the team.
BTW, I hope that the Hawks are successful at signing free agents to a minimum contract after all other free agents are signed. It’s really been a successful in the past.