Atlanta Hawks: Afternoon notes
Notes contemplated while waiting in an empty gym . . .
- Stopped by Philips Arena today. No players showed up during the couple hours I was there and none were expected. Again, I wouldn’t read too much into it, especially since guys have access to the facilities at any time and don’t need to work out at Philips.
- It turned out Joe and Al were at Philips yesterday to get their physicals but didn’t take the court.
- As you hear the Hawks connected to one free agent or another keep in mind that, like a lot of teams, they can’t be sure of their plans until the CBA is ratified and they know the rules. So take all these rumors with a grain of salt.
- Also, I don’t think the Hawks have decided on their financial plan yet. Hawks officials aren’t commenting because they still are concerned about league fines but I’m hearing they haven’t yet ruled out spending into the luxury tax.
- I wouldn’t look for the Hawks to use the amnesty this year. In fact, I don’t think many teams will use it now unless they are looking for major relief from the luxury tax or can gain cap room (and some teams in the latter category can’t use it because they would drop below the new minimum team salary). The Hawks don’t qualify on either count. They can save it for J.J.’s deal down the line.
- It’s true Josh still is unhappy, and the reasons go beyond internal and external criticism of his play and extend into concerns about team chemistry. It seems as if he simply could use a change of scenery. That doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.
- From what I can tell, none of Atlanta’s players have been declared untouchable for trades. So, at the very least, this would represent a shift in thinking by the Hawks about their proverbial “core” group. But if they do decide to pay the tax to add some significant pieces then it would seem to decrease the urgency of seeking a trade.
- The Hawks will play two exhibition games against the Bobcats, Dec. 19 at Charlotte and Dec. 22 at Philips. The Hawks will hold a free public scrimmage Dec. 16 at 7 :30 p.m. at Philips. If you see me there, come down and holla.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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426 comments Add your comment
fixed
December 3rd, 2011
10:41 am
The reality on Childress is while he could [slash off the broken play] he could not shoot a set shot or a pull up, a set shot and he could not post up or score off any other iso mismatches.
Then on the other end you play him against Lebron? And everyone else undersized? Rebounds? Defense?
HOrford’s 12ppg and Smith can only do so much in the playoffs.
Ken Strickland
December 3rd, 2011
10:43 am
I’ve really missed you DRMARYB, glad we’re all finally able to come back together, even the misfits.
Michael Cunningham
December 3rd, 2011
10:44 am
@Grandad: “I’m wagering; & -Mr Cunningham-can correct me if I’m wrong Joe is the “Chemistry” problem on the team.”
you know how these things are: it’s all relative, depends on whom you ask, etc. i wouldn’t go say far as to say anyone is causing a “problem” it just seems there’s some tension.
the group dynamics for this team can be strange sometimes. they seem to change frequently, too. it wasn’t like this with the Heat, but i’m sure there are other teams who go through the same stuff.
Sautee
December 3rd, 2011
10:46 am
Big Dog,
“1) This is pro- horford press/blog page that realizes that in order for the team to advance either Josh or Al has to go.”
Pro Horford blog page?
I just took the time to look at this thread and count the + / – comments for Al and Josh.
The total: Josh – 6 positive, 4 negative
Al: 2 positive – 8 negative
And that’s before your last two negative posts about Horford. Which brings him to 10 negative comments with Josh getting 4.
Pro Horford blog? BS!
Also, the idea that one must go is NOT accepted by the entire blog, as you suggest. Some of us believe that it can work with the two of them playing together.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 3rd, 2011
10:48 am
GET IT SOLD!
brigadierjerry
December 3rd, 2011
10:48 am
Buddy G,
I agree the Hawks can do more but do you see outside of Teague and Josh Smith being better, do you see the rest of the team playing their potential?JJ is a year older, Horford I dont see getting better. Zaza will be about the same who I like, Marvin will see but do you see a marked improvement. If you were to predict their record for the Hawks how do you see them doing?
drmaryb,
That was a good song back in the day smoke weed everyday was Nate Dogg at the end of that Snoop and Dre song!
Michael Cunningham
December 3rd, 2011
10:51 am
@mountain_jim: “Don’t trade players for a one-year rental. (Paul) Please. Only trade if it includes signing to new deal.:
i wonder if the Hawks could sell a short-term deal to fans. let’s say the Hawks traded Joe or Josh or Al for Dwight or CP3 with no assurances they will re-sign long term. the building would be sold out and the team theoretically would make a good playoffs run. if the Dwight or CP3 then doesn’t re-sign, at least the Hawks gain cap room for 2012-13 and have some cash they can spend on building a new core.
would my blog people buy that?
Sautee
December 3rd, 2011
10:51 am
Ken Strickland,
Glad to see you back. I hope your health is well.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 3rd, 2011
10:51 am
RE: Big Dog
Red Robin ,Northcyde, I follow your logic and observation.
1) This is pro- horford press/blog page that realizes that in order for the team to advance either Josh or Al has to go. Hence the attacks on Josh who has played the game at a very high level. The strategy here is kind of like the tea/party/republican. “never mind whats best for the country, get Obama”.
Never mind whats best for the team, get Josh smith.(LMAO as I write this ch!t)
Exhibit A, In Mr. Cunningham anecdote, did you you see any quotation marks around the unhappy Josh statement? Me either. this was purely fabricated and inserted to make it easy to say oh if josh is unhappy then trade him.. Excuse me but the man just called the Phillips his sanctuary, had a stellar play off performance… again and work hard over the summer to lose 30 pounds and come in the best shape of his life. Unhappy? I think not. the man is focused and driven. His marketability is off the roof making over 15 commercial, ( many with the elite NBA players and 6 in particular with his best buddy Dwight Howard.) The man is not unhappy. The man is cooking!
Josh, let your haters be your motivators! I do all the time.
2) Al horford has not only whined about playing power forward rather than center, his nonchalant
defense in the post makes as much of a statement as does has whining. He is more of a spectator at the 5 than a tenacious defender and id rather have defense at the 5 than points. Al’s attitude of me first and who cares if everyone else is out of position is detrimental to the flow of the team’s game. If he wont enthusiastically own the 5 and thereby demand the 4, forcing every one else out of position then he should be traded. In fact the hawks would be better if he was assuming we got back a willing center.
3) Howard has publically stated his favoritism for Josh. Its quite clear that he would play for the hawks if, and to quote the article, and only if Josh was here. He would not be interested in coming if horford is the powerforward.
4) With all this press support why cant Al get the fan support and get voted on the All star team? How many commercials does Al have? (0). My point is not to rag on Al but to clarify that Al is not a marquee player and is not going to get that “call” in the playoffs that give an edge to the team. Hes not going to get to the line much.
5) Josh is much more of an impact player than Al.has to demand the ball on certain spots because, unlike Josh, Al can not create his own shot and disrupts the smoove flow,(no pun intended) of the offense, which must stand around and wait for Al to get to a set spot to have a chance at a shot.
Al cant demand the ball in any spot. All he can do is screen wait for the defense to collapse and shoot a 20 footer. Not a 23 footer worth 3 points or a driving dunk where he gets fouled.
No momentum plays just google this:
“Horford’s Role: Point Forward + Low Risk, Low Reward Shooter (Lacks 3 Pt Range)”
He can’t bank the shot in?
Give me Jon “Gugliotta Jr” Leuer who bested David Lee in the draft workouts.
And Bogut and Pachulia. BIG men. and BIG shooters. No need for Horford. BORING. Are you not Entertained? No. Im not.
brigadierjerry
December 3rd, 2011
10:52 am
Sautee,
If you want both to stay how do you see the Hawks getting better?Even if Teague is a 15 6-7 assists guy do you see more success for the Hawks this year?I was impressed against the Bulls and mad at the same time. I watched the whole series again from Game 1 to Game 6 and I was so angry at LD for his substitutions more than the players themselves.
Michael Cunningham
December 3rd, 2011
10:54 am
@Section 303: “He is a poster child for why guys should go to college (a college without Mike Davis as the head coach, that is).”
as someone who is friends with a lot of IU fans back home, that made me laugh. nice.
Sautee
December 3rd, 2011
10:55 am
MC,
I guess the REAL question would be: Would the AGS actually spend the cap room they would gain?
No MLE in how many years?
They have made me too jaded to think that they can have a viable long term plan.
Ken Strickland
December 3rd, 2011
10:55 am
For those who insist on focusing on what JChildress allegedly can’t do, I’ll bet you would have had a field day criticizing DRodman and all of the things he couldn’t do. Get the point? Would you refuse to acquire or play Rodman because he didn’t have a pullup jumper, or no jumper at all, or because he couldn’t handle the ball, shoot FTs, or penetrate?
HELL NO, you acquire and play him because of what he can or could do, not because of what he didn’t or couldn’t do. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES. I’d take Childress back in a heatbeat, especially with the style of OFF we’re running. His presence and versatility would certainly lesson the impact of Hinrich’s loss, and he’d be a solid starter or backup at the 3.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 3rd, 2011
10:59 am
Michael Cunningham honestly I want to win now.
I want to compete with the Bulls for years and see what these guys can challenge Miami
Teague vs {Bibby/Chalmers}
Johnson vs Wade
Leuer vs Bosh
Smith vs Lebron
Bogut vs Dalembert
Not a one year rental and then rebuild around whom? Hawks gain cap room for 2012-13? For whom, Who would want to come to a depleted team?
Or if Horford or Joe is your best player only wannabe leaders with personal agendas aside from winning would come here?
You want to be the Washington Wizards? You have loyal players with power in the league to do damage. You screw them and then rent CP3/Dwight. You look like a turnstyle franchise. No stability.
You think Iguodala wants to go to ATL and be the new scapegoat? You think Bottomfeeders want in now? Wait till you deplete the team.
Michael Cunningham
December 3rd, 2011
10:59 am
@Joe.Jeff: “The perception is Bogut has a set role and position against the playoff giants and Horford does not. So while Horford could win you some more games across the league come playoffs he does not hold much value to the Bucks. Is this really how the Bucks feel about Horford vs Bogut? If so how many other teams feel this way about Horford?”
i don’t know how the Bucks in particular feel about Horford. if the journalist you mentioned is a Bucks beat guy, i would defer to their perspective. but, generally, Al is highly-regarded around the league as evidenced by his All-Star selections, All-Defensive team votes, etc. Stan Van Gundy gushed about his efficiency during the playoffs last season. remember, too, Al is 25 so it’s reasonable to believe he can still improve his weaknesses.
Michael Cunningham
December 3rd, 2011
11:03 am
@Joe.Jeff.Smith: “Also, Michael Cunningham does anyone know if Smith, like Horford, has said in the past, he prefers a certain position?”
i’ve never heard Josh say or imply he doesn’t like the 3.
Sautee
December 3rd, 2011
11:04 am
Jerry,
I’d trade Joe and Marvin. Not easily done, I’ll grant, but if it were my toy, that’s how I’d approach it.
And no, I don’t expect more success this year. I just can’t come up with any trade scenarios where we come out with a better frontcourt than what we already have. The Bucks are NOT giving us Bogut, despite the fantasies of Flavor Flav, so, since they are both so young still, keep ‘em and see what grows.
One caveat: If there’s a hint of a problem between them, that should be a factor. But I don’t see any of that so far.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 3rd, 2011
11:05 am
Ken Strickland thats not the point. Childress is a stop gap perimeter player for keeping Horford and Josh together.
Hawks coach Larry Drew said Benson can play both center and power forward. Drew said he wants the Hawks to take a “very aggressive approach” to defense next season and Benson could help that process.
“Going into the draft and looking at the free-agent market, if we are going to be one of the top teams in the [Eastern Conference] we have got to get better defensively,” he said. “And what better way to get better than to bring in a shot blocker.”
Does Josh Childress make the Hawks agressive defensive ECF contenders? No.
Josh Smith + Bogut is aggressive.
A championship team needs someone who can protect the rim defensively (Smith, Bogut) and an elite shot-creator offensively (Johnson, Teague).
Why are Horford and Childress still being talked about?
Michael Cunningham
December 3rd, 2011
11:15 am
@Big Dog: “Exhibit A, In Mr. Cunningham anecdote, did you you see any quotation marks around the unhappy Josh statement? Me either. this was purely fabricated and inserted to make it easy to say oh if josh is unhappy then trade him.”
i would never fabricate anything, and i’m pretty cautious in my reporting. trust me, Josh really is unhappy with his situation.
drmaryb.[*_*].
December 3rd, 2011
11:24 am
WHERE IS THE LOGIC!
I found it right here:
“For those who insist on focusing on what JChildress allegedly can’t do, I’ll bet you would have had a field day criticizing DRodman and all of the things he couldn’t do. Get the point? Would you refuse to acquire or play Rodman because he didn’t have a pullup jumper, or no jumper at all, or because he couldn’t handle the ball, shoot FTs, or penetrate?
HELL NO, you acquire and play him because of what he can or could do, not because of what he didn’t or couldn’t do. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES. I’d take Childress back in a heart beat, especially with the style of OFF we’re running. His presence and versatility would certainly lesson the impact of Hinrich’s loss, and he’d be a solid starter or backup at the 3.” -Ken Strickland-
________________
copyright that!
Man am I glad to see you bringing the wood! Baby, I sure have missed you – hope you are feeling well, but, I see some things will NEVER change and, I for one wouldn’t have you any other way. LOGIC is in the house – Yeah!
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 3rd, 2011
11:39 am
RE: i’ve never heard Josh say or imply he doesn’t like the 3.
But I think he overrates himself in that area. He compared himself to Deng. Deng can come off screens and shoot. Smith is more like a slower but stronger Gerald Wallace.
That SF is the star’s position. Would you rather be battling and making my name against guys my size named Carmelo and Deng and Marion and future Hall of Famers like Lebron and Pierce and Durant.
If I outquick them and score or shut them down, I get more respect. Than say vs Pau or someone bigger and slower. They’ll say I just athleticized them and dont have the IQ to play against wing players. Smith has more than enough to defend them. Its just a team needs 3 perimeter players.
If you can find an athletic perimeter 4 for Marvin you get bigger and more shooting. But that’s like pulling a rabbit out of a hat at this point.
Bogut’s arm injury is horrific and at this point he is best suited on a team where he is part of a center platoon. We have Pachulia and likely resign Collins as backups. They can play when Bogut is overkill against lesser teams. We can save him for the playoffs and play him like Tyson Chandler, 4th option on offense and frequently resting him. On a contender like the Hawks, Bogut totals around 30 mpg. The milwaukee Bucks on the other hand cannot hold his minutes back and expect to win games.
For Leuer on the Hawks He can play off of Teague and Joe’s perimeter play and Smith’s inside play. Fluid player and more size helps on defense. He moves Marvin to the bench. But on the Bucks I believe Leuer is stuck behind Larry Sanders on the depth chart and ca$h/extension decision is owed to Larry and Ilyasova and Gooden.
I’m sure Bucks will not play him and will acquiesce to Bogut and Leuer as a throw in for Al Horford, if he is still seen as a star.
We have been to the playoffs and know that it’s A) rim protectors (smith, Dwight, Bogut) and B) shot creators (Teague, Johnson). We know where Smith, Teague, and Joe fall. We cannot drink the Kool-Aid on Al Horford or Marvin Williams again. They fall in neither category.
darrell starks
December 3rd, 2011
12:02 pm
The Hawks could go 2 ways.
1. Is 2 stay conservative an bring back everybody and add a free agent Josh Howard.
2. Make a run at Superman or just wait for next season in free agent 2 add superman.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 3rd, 2011
12:06 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7w3ujd8
darrell starks
December 3rd, 2011
12:08 pm
Teague, Joe, Josh, Bass, Howard
Would be the best defensive team in the NBA
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ILL-Logical
December 3rd, 2011
12:20 pm
” would never fabricate anything, and i’m pretty cautious in my reporting. trust me, Josh really is unhappy with his situation.”
Slippery slope here MC. Are we to trust that you have good information( sources not attributed and caveat that JOSH WOULD NEVER SAY THAT) or are we to trust your judgement?
My issue is why have you not clarified the comments re ALL PRO Al/ Tito have allegedly made concerning what posistion(s) they prefere/demand toplay on the Hawks.
And regarding the alleged Josh unhappiness: could the “tension” be the press coverage-read ajc- be more focused on ALL PRO AL’s good character and the contrast between the personality portrayal of Josh?
darrell starks
December 3rd, 2011
12:23 pm
IF STAY CONSERVATIVE 2011 ATLANTA HAWKS
STARTERS TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, ZAZA
BENCH HINRICH, DAMIEN, JOSH HOWARD, MARVIN, COLLINS
RESERVE BENSON, PAPE
This is a good team and could compete, i like this team alot adding Josh Howard would be great move only if his head on straight and have commitment to the HAWKS.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
O'Brien
December 3rd, 2011
12:26 pm
MC,
Good win for the Cards last night.
To answer your question, I would be ok with the Hawks trading for Howard even if there is no guarantee he would re-up with the Hawks.
Sautee,
I guess the REAL question would be: Would the AGS actually spend the cap room they would gain?.
If I’m not mistaken, they have to spend 90% of the cap under the new CBA. Would they spend wisely though? that is the question.
darrell starks
December 3rd, 2011
12:27 pm
IF JOSH IS UNHAPPY HE MUST BE TRADED, but i would like to here from the horse mouth first.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
O'Brien
December 3rd, 2011
12:38 pm
ILL-Logical,
My issue is why have you not clarified the comments re ALL PRO Al/ Tito have allegedly made concerning what posistion(s) they prefere/demand to play on the Hawks..
I remember reading about their prefence, but where have you seen them demand to play PF? .
Also, from a Jeff Schultz blog on Feb 8, 2011.
How good would he be as a power forward? “He’d be a beast,” coach Larry Drew said..
IMO, LD is not helping the situation. He has openly said he thinks Al would be a beast at PF (which I disagree with), and he insists on playing Josh at SF (I also disagree with).
I don’t think he has done a good job of getting both players in the best position to play to their strengths. And if they are not listening to him, he needs to straighten them out.
SteveW
December 3rd, 2011
12:39 pm
Man, just thinkin’ about Bibby. Guy gave up about 7m all told for that trip to the finals last year. Hope it was worth it to him.
But he’s made a ton over his career also.
O'Brien
December 3rd, 2011
12:43 pm
Ken S,
Welcome back.
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
1:09 pm
Larry Drew definitely has not put the hawks in the best position to win. Moving Josh to the 3 to accommodate Al’s declaration has back fired. Al did not remotely resemble a beast, but more like a pelican or ostrich or something… in the playoffs it was same ol Al with the 12pts career average mediocre at best.
I think the best way Al can help this team, if its not all about him, is to take ownership of the center position and embrace a physical role. Become a MAN in the middle. We dont need him to score as much just defend the cup, period. Thats the role we need a center who will defend the cup. Al can do it, but he doesn’t have the heart or will to.
Josh clearly spent the off-season getting into world class shape so he can be a more athletic impact player. Al should have spent the summer getting bigger and stronger to handle play at the low arc. I dont think he made any changes and is content with what he is.
I expected more from Al. Lets get a center who likes to play center.
doc
December 3rd, 2011
1:09 pm
richie the j crit saga is truly sad.
glad to see ya bro.
as a fromer chills fan, SAY NO. he is long past his prime and ability to help us here.
in response to brig, thank you for asking. i dont have time to go into details on all the questions but the prime hindrance remains the instability of ownership vision, guidance and commitment to something bigger. the coaching change left me gasping for breath as to rhyme or reason except to keep it cheap. everything else was a masquerade. that is the standard operating proceedure for the basg.
going further to the question, this team cant do much to expand its roster with quality as it stands now on the cheap below the tax level. i dont like it but i would trade a piece for three long term contracts that are affordable for next level down mid tier players that like to play the game right and can add some diversity to the team not searching the dregs for ai over the hill types. they will lose interest fast and create problems. it is just the way their egos are constructed. i would go looking at rosters that are full of the above ordinary players but without a game changer and approach them for a trade or listen if they came looking for an energy focal piece.
ok more specifiaclly, i would like to find three players say for josh, one a legit post player, two a guy who thrives on making threes and finally a defensive specialist tweener. short of someone offering DH for one of our pieces and we can sign him to a long term contract of something similar that would blow us up and us all away, then, i say do the best you can to hold it together in this shortened season and sneak up on someone in the playoffs as we almost did last year. next year hinrich comes off the book and you might get some trade value for josh that you dont have now.
these are big picture ideas and i just dont play the fantasy game of selecting players to fit into these ideas but they are out there say in denver or maybe oklahoma. i think josh probably makes the best piece to go, realistically, not because i want him gone as he is the straw that stirs to me, but others tend to react to him and his big facade rather than look at truth about it. sadly, what josh says mirrors what so many here say but we cant stand truth when it is delivered from someone in the know because that tends to affect our own illusions about how it ought to be.
honestly, someone said it best earlier either najeh or northcyde that we really dont know which team will show up. is it the one that flagged the pre-season and looked as a similar team down the home stretch that feels it can turn it on and turn it off at will, get beat so terribly at home that it was embarrassing to all except them and then come within coaching error or two to standing in the ecf.
that is the conundrum and though big ray and astro, among others, say show josh the door for being so full of candor to say what he does …. he is exactly right and we have said it amongst ourselves chemistry and trust are subpar here on the court though they seem to get along well off the court.
on another level, i imagine we all say things in confidence to others that dont make it to the papers or have an MC scout lurking around for info about us and what we say that would have us looking a bit troublesome to our long term relations at work or at home, like bosses, co-workers and wives. funny, we cant see that in ourselves but accuse and say, say it aint so josh and go.
ok my two cents worth.
doc
December 3rd, 2011
1:10 pm
btw dr mary b, awesome analogy and just wasnt sure where you were going there for a second.
doc
December 3rd, 2011
1:12 pm
good to hear from you ken, hope you and your dog are well.
Sautee
December 3rd, 2011
1:58 pm
“I think the best way Al can help this team, if its not all about him, is to take ownership of the center position and embrace a physical role. Become a MAN in the middle”
Co-sign. We need the Al from his first two seasons. And he has more of an advantage against centers than PFs.
brigadierjerry
December 3rd, 2011
2:00 pm
doc,
I would agree with you but until I see management or coaching change, I think the Hawks will be a second round team again. Let me ask you and I have posted this question before, if the Hawks had a coach such as doc rivers or popovich or sloan or even avery johnson or larry brown, do you think the Hawks get past the Bulls in the playoffs?I strongly feel that they would and I have a bigger problem with the management and coaching more so than the players although I would like to see some moves in personnel as well.
Grandad
December 3rd, 2011
2:05 pm
Ain’t it Great;
Welcome Home Ken strickland ! ! !
Sautee
December 3rd, 2011
2:10 pm
Big Dog,
By the way, on this “pro Horford blog” the latest comment count on this thread is:
Josh: 9 positive, 4 negative
Al: 3 positive, 12 negative
pro-Horford blog, my ass. Not that there ever NEEDS to be a choice between the two. But if you think it’s pro-Horford, you aren’t paying attention.
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
2:17 pm
Sautee, im not sure what you call negative is analysis of facts. Whats more Im talking about the writers and guess dignitaries like Mr. Cunningham, Big Ray and Doc. Thats a pro Horford camp. The rest of us are reactive to the writers publications not pro active.
cp
December 3rd, 2011
2:31 pm
I never understood why so many thought Al would be so great at pf. I remember a few years ago when Josh had that ankle injury and Al started at pf. He didn’t play any better at the 4 than he was doing at the 5. We really need some bench depth. T-Mac and Reggie Evans could really help this bench. If the Suns decline that option on Vince Carter I wouldn’t mind seeing him brought in. I would move Joe to the 3 and put Vince at the 2. Make Marvin your sixth man and just hope he plays better with his back issue cleared up.
vava74
December 3rd, 2011
2:35 pm
Ken Strickland,
Good to hear you. Hope that you are OK.
vava74
December 3rd, 2011
2:46 pm
Josh’s mind set may be not be 100% right, but he has point to some extent.
Other guys don’t receive the same level of criticism as he does, or at least, all the good things that Josh does are not accounted for when we look at his bone head mistakes.
He both WINS and LOSES games for us.
Al rarely leaves an actual imprint in the course of a game. He is a role player, a good one, but a plain role player who has been benefiting from poor/slow scouting that come the playoffs was updated with the results we know.
Yes, Josh is infuriating, however, IF we looked at games more closely, we should also find infuriating Al’s lack of huevos and his whining that he is too small, out of position, etc.
It’s ludicrous to think that Al would be a beast at the PF slot. Only a complete fool like LD would state that. He is not quick, strong or crafty enough.
Al should be able to split time between the PF and the C slots but he should always hustle and play with a manly attitude. An attitude that he clearly lost.
Al’s major advantage was being an athletic C, but not athletic enough to beat quality PFs (who are plenty in comparison with the absence of any real talent in the C spot).
Najeh Davenpoop
December 3rd, 2011
2:59 pm
“And he has more of an advantage against centers than PFs.”
I don’t think even Al realizes this. If he faced up and drove on centers he could use his quickness advantage to get to the hoop pretty frequently. But in order to do that he needs to quit being Timid Al and get back to being Beast Al.
doc
December 3rd, 2011
3:06 pm
big dog i am hardly pro al. if anything most would assume i am pro josh. i like to see both of them play well but like balanced discussion. to me i think josh gets too much play about his personality than on court actions though those are obvious as well since he is a lightening rod or easy target. that is compared to jj who says nothing and is emotionless to al who is more politically correct and sometimes shows emotion and defers too much ie as he did in the all star game preparations.
thanks for the mention though.
Sautee
December 3rd, 2011
3:08 pm
“Yes, Josh is infuriating, however, IF we looked at games more closely, we should also find infuriating Al’s lack of huevos and his whining that he is too small, out of position, etc.”
OK, vava, once again, please reference exactly where Al “whined” that he was “too small”, and “out of position”? I don’t find that anywhere.
If you want to denigrate someone on an open forum, then have the ‘huevos” to provide a link that actually PROVES this alleged “whining”.
Sautee
December 3rd, 2011
3:16 pm
Najeh,
“I don’t think even Al realizes this. If he faced up and drove on centers he could use his quickness advantage to get to the hoop pretty frequently. But in order to do that he needs to quit being Timid Al and get back to being Beast Al.”
Exactly.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
December 3rd, 2011
3:18 pm
“Im talking about the writers and guess dignitaries like Mr. Cunningham, Big Ray and Doc. ”
Who are the dignitaries? Lemme guess.
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
3:36 pm
** should be guest dignitaries.
Big Dog
December 3rd, 2011
3:40 pm
brigadierjerry Out side of the Center ( or lack there of) issue, I emphatically agree. Our coaching has to be a pitfall and amongst the worst in the game. Im not saying Woody was all that but to go to his assistant coach was clearly illogical and a couple steps down. Atlanta beats Chicago even with Woodson.
Larry Drew has got to go if the Hawks are going to get better. Period.