Atlanta Hawks: Afternoon notes
Notes contemplated while waiting in an empty gym . . .
- Stopped by Philips Arena today. No players showed up during the couple hours I was there and none were expected. Again, I wouldn’t read too much into it, especially since guys have access to the facilities at any time and don’t need to work out at Philips.
- It turned out Joe and Al were at Philips yesterday to get their physicals but didn’t take the court.
- As you hear the Hawks connected to one free agent or another keep in mind that, like a lot of teams, they can’t be sure of their plans until the CBA is ratified and they know the rules. So take all these rumors with a grain of salt.
- Also, I don’t think the Hawks have decided on their financial plan yet. Hawks officials aren’t commenting because they still are concerned about league fines but I’m hearing they haven’t yet ruled out spending into the luxury tax.
- I wouldn’t look for the Hawks to use the amnesty this year. In fact, I don’t think many teams will use it now unless they are looking for major relief from the luxury tax or can gain cap room (and some teams in the latter category can’t use it because they would drop below the new minimum team salary). The Hawks don’t qualify on either count. They can save it for J.J.’s deal down the line.
- It’s true Josh still is unhappy, and the reasons go beyond internal and external criticism of his play and extend into concerns about team chemistry. It seems as if he simply could use a change of scenery. That doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.
- From what I can tell, none of Atlanta’s players have been declared untouchable for trades. So, at the very least, this would represent a shift in thinking by the Hawks about their proverbial “core” group. But if they do decide to pay the tax to add some significant pieces then it would seem to decrease the urgency of seeking a trade.
- The Hawks will play two exhibition games against the Bobcats, Dec. 19 at Charlotte and Dec. 22 at Philips. The Hawks will hold a free public scrimmage Dec. 16 at 7 :30 p.m. at Philips. If you see me there, come down and holla.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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426 comments Add your comment
Mike
December 2nd, 2011
4:50 pm
Actually, it can also get other potential buyers to look at the Hawks and see if they want to buy it from ASG. But I think that Trade that Hollinger did was stupid, besides I can do better than that. But he is right, we didnt have a superstar here since Deke a long time ago. We are very overdue for one.
DSC
December 2nd, 2011
4:51 pm
which one? The one Air Zaza suggested or the one I suggested earlier? Air Zaza’s might be better, except I’d prefer that Zaza not be involved in a trade because I think he is a perfect back up center.
Air Zaza
December 2nd, 2011
4:53 pm
@ CONservative Johnson
ASG would go over the tax for CP3, Horford, and Joe. It’s not like now. We can barely get 80% attendance for most games. With CP3, that changes. People act like ASG is cheap but who wants to go over the LT if you aren’t making money. But with CP3, Horford, Joe, and Okafor. We will.
To quote Kanye West: ” That sh** cray”
Air Zaza
December 2nd, 2011
4:54 pm
Zaza just has a thousand times more value to Marvin. Marvin isn’t a trade piece that will net us anything till he proves himself worthy again. I would hate to lose Zaza but hey, life goes on.
Mike
December 2nd, 2011
5:01 pm
Here is my idea for CPIII trade
Chris Paul
Okafor
for
Josh Smith
Jeff Teague
Mavin Williams (or Zaza)
2012 2nd Pick (I think we get two this)
2013 1st Pick
Big Ray
December 2nd, 2011
5:01 pm
So Josh Smith thinks none of his teammates get criticized as much as he does, eh? Yep, time for him to go. Talent or not, there is no use having a guy around who feels that the organization and the fans don’t appreciate him, no matter how much he’s paid.
He’s going to continue to draw criticism as long as he fails to rebound well in games where he should be dominating, fails to hit a good percentage of the jumpshots he so dearly loves, and fails to be consistent from night to night on either side of the court.
Guess what, Josh? You’ll get that criticism elsewhere, too. But nevermind that. Push for a trade. Because obviously those cheers on every single play you’ve dominated at the rim were really boos.
Oh wait…I thought you didn’t hear the boos every time you pulled up for a 30-footer when the lane was wide open? So….then WTF are you whining about?
Sautee
December 2nd, 2011
5:03 pm
“How is it that the Bulls have jumped us in the championship expectation?”
Perhaps because they have an MVP? Do you see any MVP candidates on the Hawks?
ROFLMFAO.
I don’t think we have nearly the quality role players that the Bulls have. I’ll politely disagree that we have as much talent as they do. Not even close IMHO.
Big Ray
December 2nd, 2011
5:04 pm
There was a time when I thought Iverson in the ATL was a bad idea because of chemistry. Well, seems our chemistry is screwed anyway, so lets just get butts in the seats since that’s the ASG’s bottom line anyway….right?
What chemistry? Uncle Larry (copyright, ASTRO JOE) can’t control ish anyhow, so what’s the big deal?
Funny how now that Hinrich has surgery, folks want Jordan Crawford back. LOL. Well that was a well and truly done deal for a one-time playoff thing, hate to tell you. Made sense in the moment, depending on how Teague developed. For the long term? Well, you know the story…there IS no long term here.
Slimjr
December 2nd, 2011
5:05 pm
but we have the Heimlich! Da Bulls dont……
Big Ray
December 2nd, 2011
5:05 pm
Perhaps because they have an MVP? Do you see any MVP candidates on the Hawks?
ROFLMFAO.
I don’t think we have nearly the quality role players that the Bulls have. I’ll politely disagree that we have as much talent as they do. Not even close IMHO.
That and beating us in the playoffs last season. Could NOT have said it better myself….
Fire Sund Please
December 2nd, 2011
5:06 pm
Hawks need to go after Big Baby Davis, David Lighty, and Demetri McCamey. Trade Hinrich to Minnesota for Wayne Ellington,Nikola Pekovich, and Memphis pick. Then sign Chris Douglas Roberts before the playoffs.
1-Teague/McCamey
2-Joe/Lighty/Ellington
3-Smith/Williams/CDR
4-Big Baby/Pekovich
5-Horford/Zaza
*Pekovich is a great inside presence on offense and has good size for post defense. Maybe give him some starts at center and move Horford to the 4 for the big lineup.
*Ellington is a great outside shooter to help replace Crawford along with having Lighty who is a good defender and can shoot also.
*CDR is a good scoring threat on the bench and is a decent defender.
*Big Baby has mentioned Atlanta as a possible destination and his a solid post defender to play at the 5 on defense.
*McCamey would be a nice young back up going forward and can hit the 3 ball as well.
Slimjr
December 2nd, 2011
5:07 pm
Dang wish Georgia had another Professional Basketball team to root for…..
Sautee
December 2nd, 2011
5:11 pm
Slimjr,
We do! They went to the championship this year. Of course they may be the wrong gender for you to get behind them.
Slimjr
December 2nd, 2011
5:12 pm
I hear Ya Bro!!!!
SaintSparky
December 2nd, 2011
5:16 pm
I know I’ve been proposing CP3 and Dwight Howard trades until now, which would be amazing, but how about another all-star PG in Rajon Rondo ? It looks like the Celtics are trying to get rid of him, so if CP3 isn’t an option, how about Rondo for a package of Marvin Williams and Hinrich ?
Still dreaming of CP3 and Dwight Howard together in the ATL…
Rufus1
December 2nd, 2011
5:19 pm
@Mike
That is the only trade worth making for CP3, if we expect him to resign…
Something no one is talking about…Sterns’ need to uphold the idea of competitive balance and the money CP3 will lose going to the Knicks as a free agent…
CP3 will lose between 20 and 44mil and that is alot to think about.
In the mind of Stern the Hawks would be 3rd on the list for CP3…Behind Magic(paring with another star) and the Warriors(4th largest TV market)
Why the Hawks
1) Great story…getting a 2nd bite at the apple
2) 7th largest TV market
3) Great NBA fans
4) Very good team
I am a “glass half full” kind of guy.
EmirS.
December 2nd, 2011
5:27 pm
@Rufus1
“1) Great story…getting a 2nd bite at the apple”
Might not be our apple.
mountain_jim
December 2nd, 2011
5:27 pm
Don’t trade players for a one-year rental. (Paul) Please. Only trade if it includes signing to new deal.
Remember all the ex-Braves in the World Series with Texas this year?
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 2nd, 2011
5:31 pm
Josh Smith knows his positional flaws (a Power 3, who needs a Perimeter 4) and his status around the league. He is not Pushing for a trade.
“Josh Smith hasn’t changed his mind on a future with his hometown Atlanta Hawks: He believes he’s probably run his course with Atlanta. Without an owner committed to making the changes to push this team past its second-round Eastern Conference ceiling, sources said he’d still welcome the team putting him into a trade.
Rival executives say GM Rick Sund has told them everyone is available for deals, although Sund’s most reluctant to move Al Horford. There had been serious discussions between Atlanta and the Minnesota Timberwolves for Smith around the NBA draft, but they never materialized.”
Rufus1
December 2nd, 2011
5:33 pm
Josh Smith for Lamar Odom… 1 to 1
Josh 12.5mil and Lamar 8.9mil- I think the new trade numbers are 140% + 100,00
I think this trade would benefit both teams.
LA gets the player D12 wants to play with.
ATL get a 6′11 play making sf/pf to replace Josh at a cheaper rate.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 2nd, 2011
5:34 pm
@Rufus1
Hornets blog
4.) Who would be the best trade partner should Paul be moved?
Matt Moore- I argued at CBS that the Orlando Magic actually provide the best combination of factors. The Hornets are never going to get anything resembling equal value. Getting a young point guard whose great but not Hall of Fame doesn’t help. The objective needs to be assets they can then flip to get draft picks, then tank to try and get the top pick in the loaded 2012 class, and go from there.
Zach Harper – It’s the Clippers. There is absolutely nothing of value that the Knicks can offer so if he insists on going there, I’d tell him if he wants to play in NYC, he needs to do so for less money than he can earn with the Hornets. While the Thunder are intriguing with Westbrook, do you think he’s going to sign an extension in Nola? I say pry Aminu and Eric Gordon while trying to unload a bad contract.
Joe Gerrity- It’s got to be the Clippers. Minnesota’s number one pick is huge, but especially because the Clippers can offer a number of players who aren’t good now (so the Hornets will still get a top pick next year), but will be later. That’s how you rebuild and keep the fans on board.
Jake Madison- If OKC were to offer Russell Westbrook, Serge Ibaka and an extra pick or player I’d take that in a second. It’s not the same as having Paul on the team, but I’d sleep well that night (and be the first person to buy an Ibaka jersey the next day).
Michael McNamara- It is between OKC and the Clippers. With OKC, you can get a player who is already a star and could become a superstar in Russel Westbrook. A deal with the Clippers could result in a couple of premium draft picks (Minny’s pick and our own because we would be horrible this year after that swap). There is no guarantee that Westbrook would re-sign, nor is there a guarantee that he would be worth the max contract that the Hornets would have to give him. So give me a deal with the Clippers that looks like this- Kaman, Bledsoe, Bledsoe, Minny’s #1 pick and two future Clippers first rounders for CP3 and Ariza.
cp
December 2nd, 2011
5:42 pm
Yea Josh Howard would be a good pick up if he is healthy. He was the guy I wanted the Hawks to draft years ago but they chose Diaw instead. Like many Hawks draft nights, I was baffled and upset with the choice.
Rufus1
December 2nd, 2011
5:44 pm
@Joe.Jeff.Smith..
Stern is a business man and he want to do what is best for his business…Having stars in your largest markets is good for business and that is ATL.
Those bloggers are talking about what the people want, OKC isn’t giving up Westbrook or Ibaka for a potential rental and the Clippers aren’t giving up Gordon….The Hawks would give up Teague and Marvin for the rental and that maybe the best deal they can get.
Mike
December 2nd, 2011
5:45 pm
I think that we can outeclipe of what Clippers or OKC can do, sure it isnt High Draft picks but they are ready to go Vets that been in the playoff and so much more, besides that Minny #1 pick will backfire anyway.
steven A.
December 2nd, 2011
5:49 pm
Josh Smith to Clippers for Chris Kaman. kurt Heinrich to Denver for J R Smith and Aron Aflalo.
C Kaman
Pf Horford
Sf Aflalo
Sg Joe
Pg Teague
FreshFromATL
December 2nd, 2011
5:52 pm
Steven A.,
You do know J.R. Smith signed a no opt-out clause in China, right? You want be seeing him in the NBA this year, dude.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 2nd, 2011
5:53 pm
” i think the theme of his unhappiness is related to his belief that his teammates don’t get criticized nearly as much as he does when they play poorly.”
He is right about that. He does get criticized too much relative to what he deserves, based on what he contributes and what his teammates contribute.
With that said, I hope he realizes that ATL is a relatively soft city when it comes to pro athlete criticism. If he asks out and ends up in a city where the local population actually pays attention to their NBA team, the criticism is probably only going to get louder, harsher, and more unfair.
I am just glad that at least to this point, he hasn’t let this unhappiness affect his play on the field, like certain other players I have been watching recently.
Red Robin
December 2nd, 2011
6:02 pm
Its quite clear that is a pro horford press and this is a pro josh city. So lets just do this.
vote yes for Josh, or Yes for Horford
No trick wording. Pick one and trade the other.
Let the fans decide!
Sautee
December 2nd, 2011
6:04 pm
Red Robin,
I’d keep both and trade Joe.
Red Robin
December 2nd, 2011
6:05 pm
http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/06/21/al-horford-for-superman-should-the-hawks-make-that-offer/
Najeh Davenpoop
December 2nd, 2011
6:06 pm
“vote yes for Josh, or Yes for Horford
No trick wording. Pick one and trade the other.”
I pick both, and if anyone gets traded, I trade Joe.
Grandmaster JeJe
December 2nd, 2011
6:09 pm
Here are 3 pieces of information I want EVERY person here to realize every time they think about our chances of contending:
1) Sund is a pathetic GM who has accomplished nothing. The guy drafted SWIFT, PETRO, AND SENE 3 CONSECUTIVE YEARS WITH HIGH DRAFT PICKS. Not one person here can name ONE thing any of these 3 guys have accomplished in this league (because there is nothing). His anemic, pathetic, and deplorable track record as GM has carried over into this franchise, on which he has NOT made one move to this core which IT IS OBVIOUS HAS REACHED ITS CEILING. TRADE JOSH SMITH ALREADY. TRADE HIM FOR AL JEFFERSON OR MILLSAP. TRADE HIM FOR DANNY GRANGER. PACKAGE HIM FOR CHRIS PAUL. YOU ARE NOT A GENIUS LIKE YOU CLAIM. YOU’RE AN ARROGANT INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING IN THIS LEAGUE. You traded for Hinrich, which I didn’t think was a bad move – except for the fact that you and your incompetent ownership group gave up like 8 PLAYERS IN THE TRADE. Now we have nothing to show for the trade because this pathetic season is like 4 months like now and Hinrich is mysteriously out til the end of February (although we heard it’d be til the end of December, THEN it was the end of January).
2) ASG – Where is the money at? You have sold picks, you NEVER use the MLE, you have trade exceptions (Childress). You talk about going into the Luxury Tax if the right player is available. This is your cop-out in order to not do anything. WTF is wrong with you guys? How do you sell the team one second, then claim it’s not for sale. Pathetic. I am not hating on the Joe Johnson move because it was mandatory we do it in order to stay a top 5 team in the East (otherwise we wouldn’t have been able to sign anyone because we’d have been over the cap). However, you guys haven’t even made one effort to get a center. All you guys and Rick Stunk know is that Cheeseburger Collins can slow down Dwight. That is the ONLY thing you have done right.
We will come back this year with the same GD core and bench players. The ONLY reason Teague is gonna get minutes is because Hinrich is out.
3) ASG IF YOU SOLD THE THRASHERS WHY NOT INVEST MORE MONEY IN THE HAWKS? As I said before, the exact same BS this year. No Luxury Tax, same core, fail in the 2nd round
FIRE SUND
FIRE ASG
FIRE LD
doc
December 2nd, 2011
6:12 pm
yeah, i can see it now if odum comes here …. headlines …. real story, kardashians now done with nyc come to the big A to take on the housewives of atlanta. nba takes backseat to that type of reality any day.
the special? …. kris comes back to say to kim he only wanted love not annulment.
i say annul any talk of ai, big baby or odum. i want to see basketball players and basketball played. already too much drama this season.
darrell starks
December 2nd, 2011
6:21 pm
Word on street Superman want come home, sources mouth lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bring him ASG let forget about CP3 and think about paring Josh with his buddy superman.
Josh is a competitive who wants a ring worst than any body on the team, but he must understand everybody is criticize from ball boy to security guard that’s just life, so where ever he go it could be worst than his current stay so brother Josh just be bless, and let’s win a championship.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 2nd, 2011
6:23 pm
CP3 want go NYC so let’s focus on Superman.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 2nd, 2011
6:31 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3dnazf4
darrell starks
December 2nd, 2011
6:38 pm
2011 ATLANTA HAWKS
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, , JOSH, BRANDON BASS,SUPERMAN.
BENCH HINRICH, DAMIEN, JOSH HOWARD, MAGNUM, COLLINS
RESERVE PAPE, BENSON
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Grandmaster JeJe
December 2nd, 2011
6:39 pm
Offer Smoove and Hinrich for the Best Player Available, regardless of position
Grandmaster JeJe
December 2nd, 2011
6:41 pm
HORFORD AND JOSH FOR DWIGHT
Sautee
December 2nd, 2011
6:43 pm
Najeh,
Great minds…etc., etc.
bigdave
December 2nd, 2011
6:44 pm
Josh is right.. folks can act like he’s talking out his a__..
but the fan base seems to be in love with Al Horford regardless of his limitations.
its amazing what a squeaky clean image, and some collegiate success will get you in this city. such a leader/champion.. but i only saw 1 big that seemed to play with the grit and (effort) it takes to excel in playoff basketball..
it didnt take the playoffs for me to notice..
Section 303
December 2nd, 2011
6:45 pm
That’s just what drives me crazy with Josh Smith. He simply does not get it. His shot selection is just brutal. The fact that he does not realize that is so frustrating.
His best season with the Hawks was the 2009-2010 season, when he took a very limited amount of 3’s. He should have been an All Star that season. He took a giant step backwards last season when he started jacking 3’s at the worst possible moments.
He’s got all the tools. All of them! But, I’m convinced he will never get the game mentally. Shame. He is a poster child for why guys should go to college (a college without Mike Davis as the head coach, that is). Put Josh in a time machine and make him 18 again. Place him with Coach K or Izzo for a year or two. He would have have been so much better off.
darrell starks
December 2nd, 2011
6:46 pm
TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, BASS, SUPERMAN
Would be the best defense in the NBA.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike
December 2nd, 2011
6:50 pm
Make us wish the Hawks had a owner like Arthur Blank that actually care of this team.
Sautee
December 2nd, 2011
6:50 pm
bigdave,
Glad to see you back. As you and I have discussed before, Horford hasn’t been the same since Griffin took him down. Showed a lot of grit to get up and hit the FTs, but he’s shied away from heavy contact ever since.
Let’s hope HE realizes it soon, and gets his beast back. He showed SO much promise his first two years. That’s the guy I want to see.
Teague.Leuer.Smith.Joe.Bogut.
December 2nd, 2011
6:56 pm
Smith does get it. His shot selection? Who else do you want shooting shots? You told Johnson to cool it down and share the ball. But gave him $120 million to share it with. Teague can only shoot so many layups and lacks range and confidence. But still Drew/Sund/ASG sat Teague on the bench, for 50 games over MIKE BIBBY.
Teague and Joe can only shoot so much. Who is supposed to create their own shot next? Marvin? Jason Collins? How many times do you need to see Al Horford isolate or (try to) play inside to know why he defers and likes to pick and pop?
Smith is not taking shots from Kobe Bryant or Kareem people. He’s the 3rd option on a sucky team thats the butte of NBA jokes.
bigdave
December 2nd, 2011
7:03 pm
whats going on Sautee..
absolutely.. for me, id take the tenacity/approach of rookie Al. if we had that guy in the playoffs.. we probably get by Chi. thats the “toughness” Joe and LD speak of.
b/c you are a Horford fan, and never took my game to game critique of his play as blind hate,it seems as if the franchise is going to have to chose between the two.. i beg this question; who do you think makes the Hawks a better team starting at the PF position. say from a playoff series perspective.who makes us a difficult out..? a tougher defend?
bigdave
December 2nd, 2011
7:04 pm
*choose
Just Joe
December 2nd, 2011
7:06 pm
I think we could wind up seeing a Josh Smith trade to the Clippers for Chris Kaman, Eric Bledsoe, and Minnesota’s first round pick. Hawks get assets and cap relief. Clippers get to boast a young, athletic front court of Smith, Griffin, and Jordan. Would not surprise me at all.
Joe.Jeff.Smith.Leuer.Bogut
December 2nd, 2011
7:08 pm
Limitations. Don’t blame it on Blake Griffin. I can count at least 3 times Horford got injured taking the ball to the basket.
If you don’t want Smith behind the arc then get someone who’s more dynamic there to take shots from Smith:
Al Horford, Damien Wilkins, Marvin Williams, Jason Collins, Zaza Pachulia
these are all the guys he was taking perimeter shots away from with his “bad shot selection” from last season.
If you want Smith to give up more shots then get a more dynamic player than him. You dont decide to give the ball to Horford and watch him do his diseased jab fakes or play SMALL BALL lineups and go iso with Damien Wilkins before you give shots to Josh Smith.
If you play small ball Paul Pierce or Lebron or Durant or Granger better damn well be next to Josh Smith. You give those guys the ball before Smith and complain if he shoots from outside.
Dont complain when next in line is Marvin Williams and Damien Wilkins. Or maybe pass it to the ghost of Josh Childress and Maurice Evans.
Small Ball Hawks ftw