Atlanta Hawks: Video: Free agent focus

I talked Hawks today with CineSport’s Noah Coslov. No news so far on the free-agent front. Check back tomorrow for a report from the first day of workouts at Philips.

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat



268 comments Add your comment

FreshFromAtl

November 30th, 2011
5:29 pm

Can’t wait to see what will happen in the upcoming weeks!

vava74

November 30th, 2011
5:31 pm

Sorry Grandad,

But you even admit on your little fable that you had to KO me with a dirty trick :-D

Al – Laimbeer…

umm… common points:

Face up scorers
Both play C
Adequate/above average rebounders



ummm…
nothing else!

Laimbeer was DIRTY and DID ANYTHING, WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE MEANS, IN ORDER TO WIN.

You had to insure your nose, your teeth, your collarbone, your b@alls before you even considered going into the lane with Laimbeer down low.

Laimbeer was the most hated and one of the most feared players in the league.

Al is too nice, too soft… there is no comparison.

If Al played in the 80’s, he would refuse to play against Laimbeer. Heck, Dwight Howard would too, even though he is one of the dirtiest players right now.

You must have a man-crush for Al.

vava74

November 30th, 2011
5:33 pm

Just Joe,

The Celts are only dumping Rondo IF THEY GET PAUL.

So, your “plan” does not work starting with its point 1.

Sautee

November 30th, 2011
5:40 pm

From the last blog:

Vava74, and Rod from CP,

Both of y’all are using revisionist history regarding Al and Kurt Thomas. Yes, I saw what you did. Al did get punked ON A FEW TRIPS, but overall, he played very near his season stats for that series. He actually rebounded at a higher rate (9.8 to 9.3 for the season), and had more blocked shots (2.1 vs. 1.04 reg. season), so to say that Thomas “punked him” is hardly the case. His scoring was BAD in games 3 and 4 (where Thomas indeed pushed him off his spots), but for the entire series he scored 14.5 / gm which was just slightly less than his season avg. of 15.3.

And Rod, somehow you don’t remember ANY of the 15 blocks that Al had during the series? None?

Selective memory I guess.

Anyway, just trying to keep it real. Al would tell you he didn’t play his best, but to say in a blanket statement that Al got “punked” for the series is a big stretch. A few trips, ok, but look at the stats, and it’ll tell you differently.

My two cents.

Section 303

November 30th, 2011
5:48 pm

I received this week’s SI today. NBA preview issue. Typical Hawks preview. Talk about how team never makes it past the 2nd round, etc. They make re-signing Jamal sound urgent to the Hawks. Just don’t see that. I like Jamal, but he was not as good last year as he was 2009-2010 season. Plus, he just commands too much jack.

I cannot wait until December 9. Watching the free agents fly off the market and trying to anticipate who the Hawks will grab will be fun. I loved the two week free agent period the NFL had this year (I actually think the NFL should do that every year). The NBA’s will be even better.

Schedule gets announced on Friday, right? I read that on Twitter from one of the many NBA writers I follow.

Just Joe

November 30th, 2011
5:54 pm

vava,

i don’t care what the C’s turn around and do with Teague, Hinrich, and the pick. If they want add another pick, S&T Jeff Green, S&T Big Baby, Avery Bradley, and/or Marshon Brooks and go after CP3, then that’s their business.

Rod from College Park

November 30th, 2011
6:03 pm

Sautee,

Please name me another All Star in the NBA that would not be critisized if they did not hit their season average in the playoffs, and their shooting percentage dropped tremedously.. I also happened to be sitting very close to the floor during the Milwakee series, actually harassing Kurt Thomas for all of those home playoff games, and lets just say that saying he got punked is the nice way of saying it. If there is any way to go back and look at those games, please watch how Kurt Thomas was always talking to someone whenever he was standing on the on the free throw line. Let’s just say that him calling Al soft was a nice way to put it. It starts with a P. I know you are a little older, but if you punk someone on the basketball court today, it means you get in their head, keep them from doing what they do well, take their heart, have them looking like a deer in headlights, and trust me when I tell you, Kurt Thomas did that. So, no me saying that he got punked was not a stretch, and Dwight Howard has punked him as well. He wants nothing to do with Dwight anymore. Early in his career he would at least try to defend him, now we will use Josh before we use Al (LOL). After all of this, I still like Al, and his game, but I have to call a spade, a spade. Al is an All Star, and should be improving his game in the playoffs, not playing worse. See Zach Randolph.

DHD

November 30th, 2011
6:18 pm

This was very informative. NOT

Grandad

November 30th, 2011
6:28 pm

vava & Mary Ellen

My Laimbeer point;
-clearly- at least I thought ? ? ?,
was to point out his face up shooting from 12 – 18 ft.

Mary Ellen had responded to that point from a previous post !

At this time, I’m making that clear !
They play Center & they are very good face up shooters;
which is their strngth,
my point being play to your strength [offensively].

I f – I’ m – n o t – m a k i n g – m y s e l f – c l e a r – I’ l l,
s p e a k – e v e n – s l o w e r.

____________________________________________

That last part was for vava ’cause I’m scared of the Black Momba (sic)

Rufus1

November 30th, 2011
6:28 pm

MC

You sounded slightly impressed with the Hawks performance in the playoffs…..Was I hearing thing correctly?

Rod from College Park

November 30th, 2011
6:36 pm

For those that critisize Josh for his defense, please see the picture above. That does not look like a weakside block to me. Please notice who he was checking. For all the heat he takes on this blog, and in the media, I can truly say, that I have never seen a better shot blocker at 6-8 or 6-9 in my life (maybe Dr. J, but I was young then) than Josh Smith. I really think some of you forget how many shots he blocked, changed, or disrupted in the early part of his career. I have literally seen Josh Smith totally shut down Pau Gasol, when he played for Memphis early in his career, and have many teams scared to come in the paint similar to what Dikembe did when he was here. When some say that all he does is get weakside blocks, you really have no idea how big a block is in the realm of basketball, and how difficult it is, and how rare it is. The guy is already # 53 all time in the history of the NBA in blocks, and nobody his size 6-8, 6-9 is above him except Dr. J. All of the other guys are mostly centers. and true power forwards. He is only 38 blocks behind Dwight Howard for his career.
Does he make bonehead decisions? Should he stop shooting 3’s? Should he stop complaining to Refs? Yes. But some of you who make these ignorant comments, that Al is a better all around defender, and Marvin is a better defender (LOL), need to really think about what you are typing before you type. Marvin or Horford don’t have the versatlity to be able to guard from the 2 to the 5 that Josh does, neither guy poses any threat from stopping you at the rim, they can’t steal the ball like Josh can, and they don’t intimidate anyone that they are guarding. Please think before you type. If you have the ability to hate, you also have the ability to give credit. If I could find something the give Marvin credit for, other than the 4 to 5 games a year, that he plays good in, I would.

#Let'sGoHawks!

November 30th, 2011
6:36 pm

good way to beat around the bush..

Sautee

November 30th, 2011
6:38 pm

Rod,

“Please name me another All Star in the NBA that would not be critisized if they did not hit their season average in the playoffs, and their shooting percentage dropped tremedously”

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think he’s above criticism whatsoever. But now we’re talking about last season (where his % dropped from .557 to .423).

And I was wrong when I posted 15.3 as his scoring avg. That was for last year. In 09-10 he averaged 14.2 during the season, so he actually DID raise his avg.in the MIL series, though not by much.

And you may remember that I was as critical of him last postseason as anyone on the blog, save Vava.

But in 09-10 his % only dropped slightly, and he rebounded and blocked shots at a higher rate than the season, so yes, despite your description of Thomas being “in his head”, he STILL manged to be productive (unlike last postseason). THAT was my point. Punked or not, he was productive in that MIL series. If he had at least played that way against CHI, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Oh, and by the way, Al’s blocked shots avg. and total in the 09-10 postseason was exactly the same as Josh (1.7 / gm – 19 BS in 11 games for both).

Rod, I totally agree with your last statement, that he should be raising his game come playoff time.
Let’s hope he has another chance in the spring.

Wabe

November 30th, 2011
6:41 pm

Let me preview what the FA period will be like for the Hawks…

And the Hawks sign…………………..nobody worth the name.

It happens every year. We end up speculating about all these names. We need bigs, we need wing-players, and then we end up watching all the guys who could potentially help this club get snatched up and we end up opting for the bottom of the barrel players.

Ra'mon

November 30th, 2011
6:44 pm

I feel the Hawks should attempt to unload Horford, before teams really found out how limited his game is. Other than his mid range jumper, what can you really say is improving for Horford? As a rookie contract player, Horford is a great bargain. But as a $12 mil a season player, Al will soon become an overpaid, undersized C, but unathletic PF. He’s an all NBA player right now, so move him now! If a deal of Al and Kirk’s expiring contract brought a super star, than make the deal happen now!

Slimjr

November 30th, 2011
6:50 pm

If Al played in the Western conference, his talents would not be AllStar material…He would not even be mention in the same breath as a candidate…

Aldridge is 2x> than Allstar Al “leave the rim uncheck for layups by point guards” and he did not make the Western Allstar team………………………..

Slimjr

November 30th, 2011
6:53 pm

DeAndre Jordan! DeAndre Jordan! Get him in here asap!

Section 303

November 30th, 2011
6:53 pm

Ahh…I love it! I have no doubt the Lockout is over now! Blog members are back to ripping Josh (I do this all the time), Al (really?), and nameless free agents the Hawks have not even signed, yet.

Let the games begin!

Slimjr

November 30th, 2011
6:54 pm

FIRE RICK SUND! A mediocre GM for 31+ years! Blah Blah Blah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sautee

November 30th, 2011
6:57 pm

Ramon,

I guess maybe I see Al for what he HAS rather than what he lacks. Lots of intangibles. I personally think that last year’s playoffs were an aberration, but we’ll see soon I guess.

That said, if we could get D12 for a package including Al, I’m all in.

But if he starts the season the way he ended last year, his value WILL certainly drop.

Slimjr

November 30th, 2011
7:00 pm

ALL NBA AL is the most overrated Eastern Conference Allstar by a long shot!

Get rid of da bum while he still has tremendous value…

Grandmaster JeJe

November 30th, 2011
7:01 pm

Excellent post, Rod from CP.

It further reinforces the fact you are one of the best posters on here. I will try get that tape.

I remember someone yelled at Kurt Thomas “KEEP SHOOTING!”, he hit a shot, then looked at the guy and said “I will!”

Something like that

Grandmaster JeJe

November 30th, 2011
7:01 pm

There’s a strong chance Horford makes the All Star team as a center again and Joe DOES NOT make it. Deron and Melo are now in the East, people…

Grandmaster JeJe

November 30th, 2011
7:03 pm

Rod, did Horf say anything back to Kurt? Prob not

LOL

trooper

November 30th, 2011
7:04 pm

nate robinson will be bought out by okc and be free agent chance to replace jamal

Slimjr

November 30th, 2011
7:06 pm

Pretty Boy wants to play PF? A freaking Joke of this decade!

Rod from College Park

November 30th, 2011
7:08 pm

Sautee,

Don’t get me wrong, Al is solid. But if Josh or his dad starting saying things in the media like I should be playing power forward, you would never hear the end of it. I think Ra’mon said it best. Al was a great player on a rookie contract, but 12 mil a year for a guy who is a all star player in the regular season, and then does not step up his game in the playoffs, and has zero post moves as a PF or C is a bit steep. Knowing the hard worker that he is, hopefully he has been working on that this offseason. Maybe he will improve his post game like he did hid jump shot. I hope so.

briggy

November 30th, 2011
7:11 pm

grandad horford and laimbeer similar players but laimbeer and those pitons teams brutalized people physically horford has never played like laimbeer defensively defense is all about effort and laimbeer intimidated people horford not that type of player one thing have said probem is coaching roles are not defined on this team with ld i dont love woodson but they played and horford much better defense under woodson. i also thin chis p choices will be ny, la, atl,orl.

briggy

November 30th, 2011
7:13 pm

mc do u know how much hawks will be under the cap at end of this season

Rod from College Park

November 30th, 2011
7:17 pm

Grandmaster JeJe,

“Rod, did Horf say anything back to Kurt? Prob not”

No. He just had that deer in the headlights look. That what started to change my opinion on him a little bit. Made me keep an eye on him. He has become a much nicer Al, and a much better jump shooter since then.

cp

November 30th, 2011
7:18 pm

@Wabe. Yea that’s how it will probably go too. The Hawks will get some guy past his prime or a guy who was never any good and try to spin it as a guy with big game experience as if the Hawks fans dont know any better. There will be some guys available who can really help this team but I dont see this front office spending the money to get them.

briggy

November 30th, 2011
7:22 pm

hawks fans who would u rather have at pf reggie evans or horford?also big problem look it up nba winners have always had a post player hawks have no one maybe jj maybe hawks best postup player and that is sad. big reason why horford and smith take jumpshots they need to be directed to keep themselves inside the paint for rebounds and putbacks. why cant horford become a player like antonio davis was for the pacers?

Rod from College Park

November 30th, 2011
7:22 pm

By the way, Kurt Thomas is one of the best S@&# talkers I have heard. I have heard Jordan, Nick van Exel, Reggie Miller and Kobe, but they were very arogant with it. Kurt Thomas really has fun with it, and plays to the crowd. He made those playoff games fun taliking stuff to the crowd.

drmaryb .[*_*].

November 30th, 2011
7:30 pm

The Unsellables!

Astro Joe, I’m about as sick as I can be about that Meruelo deal. I only got excited today, when I heard CP3 had Atlanta on his short list. That’s what got me revved up!

I really hope The ASKG are looking for a buyer, but I heard they pulled that last deal off the table. Any idea why they did that? I was pinning it on Stern this morning, but I can’t find any leaky threads on what happened.

Did Alex just not have the money? If not, why did the investment people present hus offer and let it go to a press conference? What a tease! What a mess!

I’m just sick with these owners, I can only hope they spend some money while these two superstars are becoming available … Why not? They ain’t got nothing better to do. Why wouldn’t a new owner want a winner?

Big Dog

November 30th, 2011
7:34 pm

I dont think its a smart comparison Al vs Laimbeer. I mean really? Ok lets think about this rationally. If
Al faced Bill underneath the basket what would happen?… Al would go out to the perimeter and shoot from the small forward position.

End of story.

Grandad

November 30th, 2011
7:35 pm

Man Crush;

-I Think Not-

I’m a retired Coach who still consults in Player Evaluation.
[somewhat smaller scale - but not much]

Let us get a few things straight:
I’ve criticized Josh, but qualified it with “always”(always){always}
saying I like Josh.

I’ve been Joe’s biggest critic, yet I cannot remember stooping to
“Jr High” potty mouth desciptions of his play.
I’ve been harsh but tried to remain grown up in my critique.
[I'm sorry but "Diaper Al' is not gonna catch on]

If I’ve been low brow and boorish with Joe / I apologize.
(save for the occasional attempt at obvious humor)

Maybe that’s what you are doing ?

I’ve been equally harsh with Marv …
however, he mostly just pisses me off and I get over it.

If I suggest a joe, Josh, or Marv trade – it does not mean that
I do not support them as long as they are Hawks.
recently I’ve been throwing Zaza’s name out in trade scenarios;
however Zaza remains one of my favorite Hawks, and I would miss
the Big fella.

vava
Your acrimony toward Al is to the point,
that I think you wish for him to fail.

northcyde
I say to you right now – having been a critic of Joe-
I wish for him to succeed and for the Hawks to win.
I speak to nc because he and I have debated Joe in the past.

I am a Hawks fan covering their entire span in Atlanta, Ga.
Having coverted over from the Celtics in the mid 60’s !

Go Hawks;
Al, Josh, Joe, Teaguer, Capt Kirk, Marv, Zaza, et al !!!!!

drmaryb .[*_*].

November 30th, 2011
7:37 pm

Hot Rod!

Hey Rod from CP! Wassup baby? Re: what you said:
“Maybe he will improve his post game like he did hid jump shot. I hope so.”
_______________

O’Brien posted last season that Al said, he was gonna’ work on his 3 point shot next! OMG! I hope he does work on his low post game offensively and defensively.

Rod from College Park

November 30th, 2011
7:51 pm

drmaryb,

I pray he changed his mind. If he does that, we really will be an all jump shooting team, except for our point guard (Teague), that’s if Drew decides to let him play this year. LOL

drmaryb .[*_*].

November 30th, 2011
7:54 pm

We Won!

The only thing I remember about those two Milwaukee series is that:

We WON!

Once with Woodson and once with Drew. What else is there to say?

drmaryb .[*_*].

November 30th, 2011
7:56 pm

* Once with Woodson in round 1 and the regular season with Drew.

Sautee

November 30th, 2011
7:57 pm

Briggy (is that you Jerry?)

“why cant horford become a player like antonio davis was for the pacers?”

While I DID admire AD’s game, to me Horford offers more, even at his measly last year’s playoff numbers. Keep in mind that last year in the playoffs, Al FELL to .423% in FG%, which was abysmal compared to his season (.557%). Davis’ career % is just .448, and he stayed closer to the basket for the most part than Al. Davis would have had better overall numbers had he not been mostly splitting time with Dale Davis. So his career MPG is only 28.9, lower than Al’s 33.8. But the shooting % (which was one of Rod’s salient points) is not affected by # of minutes, unless you are a bench scrub, which neither is / was.

Anyway, my take is that Al already IS a player like Davis. Better possibly. BUT, and Ramon is correct in this, is NOT currently worth $12M. He’s got to step it up to be worthy of his contract. But I’d argue the same for Joe and Josh as well, perhaps to a lesser degree, since their playoff performances weren’t as egregious as Al’s.

Another GM

November 30th, 2011
8:07 pm

No use to get excited about the free agency period. The Hawks will sign a player for the vet minimum. If your excited, disappointment awaits you in mid december.

Slimjr

November 30th, 2011
8:12 pm

Agreed.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Remember Sund is the GM right? Cant change a leopards spots….

briggy

November 30th, 2011
8:15 pm

sautee yes it is me but davis antonio and dale played much better defense than horford

drmaryb .[*_*].

November 30th, 2011
8:25 pm

Gear-On Up!

Of all the 8 feces throwing orangutans, aka: ASKG … I hope Gearon JR steps up his worth! He said on 680 The Fan last Summer that he would go into the luxury tax for the right player and then mentioned LeBron’s name.

Oh yeah, Gear-On JR did get a “Stern Fine” for tampering. LOL! Here’s my point: will ASKG still go into luxury tax territory for a Super Star like CP3? One can only hope.

Aye Sund! Give up 3 first rounders (they’ll be in the teens anyway) if they’re lottery picks? Yawl will mess those up anyway … Give it away!!!

On this team, CP3 would average 15-20 dimes per night.

FreshFromATL

November 30th, 2011
8:31 pm

Welp! I see the blog is back to normal, lol.

Big Dog

November 30th, 2011
8:31 pm

I think a better caparison for Al would be Manute Bol or Jon Koncak…No, Hes not a Bill Laimbeer.

Buddy Grizzard

November 30th, 2011
8:31 pm

Buddy Grizzard
May 25th, 2011
5:13 am

Al is actually our most attractive trade asset. You will never get value for Josh because he’s so talented but there are too many questions about his attitude. Some writer with ESPN tweeted that teams low-balled the Hawks with offers for Josh when they dangled him for trades this year.

Meanwhile, All-NBA Al is a two-time All-Star with a value contract. He has zero character issues and is highly overrated. Best trade chip we have.

Sautee

November 30th, 2011
8:46 pm

briggy,

“davis antonio and dale played much better defense than horford”

I’ll disagree, but it’s close enough to say it’s splitting hairs for me. There had to be SOME reason that the coaches gave Horford votes on the All-Defensive team (more than Josh!).

I’m astounded that the folks on the blog go SOOOOO overboard regarding his faults, but we live in a “what have you done for me lately” society, and his playoff performance deserved scorn. Which he certainly got from me.

I realize he sometimes looks AWFUL trying for a block near the basket, but his on body defense is actually very good. Or else all those coaches are seeing things. And I have to think that, though we are all Bball lovers here, and we DO have a smart group of posters, still the coaches are the ones who see this level of talent, effort, and awareness on a daily basis, and therefore have a better idea of who deserves awards. I also believe that coaches tend to reward players with a lot of “intangibles”, and Al has that in spades.

jhan

November 30th, 2011
8:51 pm

If Bill Laimbeer had to play in today’s NBA he would not be nearly as productive. He would foul out of every game by hafltime.