Atlanta Hawks: Labor fight heads to courtroom as season in jeopardy

I knew the players didn’t like the new deal. But I thought they would fall on the sword, rather than miss an entire season, go to court, and possibly still end up with a deal they don’t like.

Oh well. There goes the season. I feel bad for those businesses (restaurants in the area, etc) and workers who depended on the basketball salary (parking lot attendees, vendors etc).

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the system is broke. until the players realize this there won’t be anymore basketball. not to mention the uphill pr battle the nba is constantly fighting just got significantly worse. if the entire season is missed the nba will be set back another 10 years.

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blood in the streets

union shws resolve that they heeded hunters call three years ago to be prepaared. guess owners dthought they could play the heavy with impunity

now i sit back and collect my monthly check from the spirit and have no contract with them on the next year. called it pretty good becauseseats will be cheap if they really try to get folks back in them.

just the same sad but this should have never come this far as both used the fans and season revenues and salaries as blackmail on each other

funny how i am now interested in college football and basketball more than in recent years past

ill drink one for a good march madness tonight

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the rabbit ij the players sleeve will be anti trust issues that the club of owners have to accept

once in court we the fans see true tranbsparancies of revenue streams

this may get owners back to the table just like it got the nfl back to negotiate when decertification struck. thismay be what owners fear and they are not willing to sjow their acvointing wizzardry which they will be forced to do.again fans know what playees make and are horrified. my guess is they will be even more horrified when the books are open for a to see and see what liars are at work. i hope to be able to see it tgen i will know who the idiots are really players owners or fans not realzing what cash cows we were. if the owners fold then we know who is at higher risk and they dont eant the story to go any further. just based on big business past experiences.

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LOVE IT! Don’t go away mad NBA, just go away!!!

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mc hope you can translate iphone speak on a walk

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Cupid06…you are an idiot. This system is BROKE….MANY owners are LOSING money on this watered down product. Only a handful of teams can compete for a title and that leads to empty seats in a TON of arenas. They need an NFL model in order to survive. The beauty of the NFL is that you can suck one year and legitimately contend the next. That is NOT the case in the NBA. The Hawks have NO shot…the Hornets have NO shot…the Jazz have NO shot…I could go on and on. The NBA needs to tell college player to stay in school for 3 years…just like the NFL. There needs to be a HARD salary cap preventing the debacle in Miami. Of all pro sports…I have the least interest in the NBA due to the structure of the league. And I love basketball…just not what this has become.

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NBA sucks until playoffs anyway..hopefully they’ll have a 10 game season and then have playoffs. College hoops are better anyway.

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What GETAGRIP said.

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Good for the owners. The system is broken and needs to be torn down and rebuilt. Baseball is not far behind. Football has a salary cap which creates a competitive balance that you don’t have in either basketball or baseball and it’s thriving. Probably half of baseball and basketball franchises are losing money. Plain and simple; Would you pay $75-$100 a ticket or more to go see the Cavaliers play the Pistons? I think not.

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The NBA is in a lockout? Who knew? The league could permanently disband for all I care.

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GetaGrip, you’re the damn idiot. Teams in the NFL can compete after making changes is because of personnel and system changes, such as the 49ers. Same team, different coach, different system….SUCCESS. As I stated, if someone is not getting the job done, get someone in office who can! You’re entitled to your opinion, so don’t disrespect mines you used Tampon…

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cupid – you argument holds no water. sort of like that childish 3rd grade tampon insult. the nba is a god awful system. guaranteed contracts, poor owners who overpay to stay semi competitive, a “soft” salary cap…. you are in the 1% my friend who has any empathy for the players.

just not much sympathy into today’s climate for the millionaire that being taken advantage of by billionaires. puuuuuuuhlease.

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Good bye NBA..Maybe next year?

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At least I took the interest from the Hawks. So, when the season is called off (they might as well do that right now), the team will owe my wife and I around $500. Wonder if the ASG will be able to swing that?

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I never cared for basketball.

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If we’re really, really, really lucky, they’ll cancel all of the NBA season—-but if we,re even luckier than that, they’ll do away with that garbage forever!!!!

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Looks like child support payments in America are gonna take a hit.

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And the Eastern Semis are as far as they will ever get…when I say NO shot…I mean NO shot at winning it all. In MLB…despite the lack of a hard cap…you still have mid-level teams that make the playoffs (where only FOUR teams per league get in, not and shockers happen…San Francisco last year? St. Louis who EVERYBODY thought was dead. Florida Marlins with TWO World Series? The NBA is about 4-5 teams who have loaded up on the stars of the league. I have news for you…OKC is a GREAT young team…but they will NEVER win in this current format. This league is BROKEN…and if you don’t see that…well then that’s a whole different conversation.

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Poor JJ will he get his pay check so he can pimp more rides ?

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Some baby mommas bout to start locking folks up when the money don’t come in.

FIRE SUND

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Goodbye NBA. Who cares. I have been saying for the last 15 years that Stern was the worst thing that could have happened for the NBA. No rules….poor officiating. Terrible Player Moral…..too many thugs….and criminality. Jordan, Bird, and Johnson, Paxson, Marovich, Stockton, now those were players the NBA can admire….not these babies that whine and moan all the time.

I am not going to loose any sleep over this one. Stern get out….your a horrible commissioner you rotten greedy no good fat lard.

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The NBA is a players league.

The most recently crowned “Greatest Coach” happens to be the coach who consistently had outstanding players including the best in the game on two occasions. Coaching has a smaller impact than in either baseball or football.

Players tune out the coach and the coach is history whether his name is Riley or Jackson or some other.

But the players do not seem to understand that without the owners there is no league and as the ASG recently learned, the market for NBA teams is very small.

If an owner must have a net worth of $1 billion or more just to sustain a team’s operations then the appeal is gone with the old business model of living with losses until the annual appreciation drives up the value of the franchise.

Have any of the players noticed the state of the US economy? There is unlikely to be a change in the near future and when the socialists take complete control of government there will be a true union and all of the players will be paid on SCALE – say $100K for a PG, $110 for a 2 guard and so on. With the price of a Rolls Royce going to half a mil what will the poor players do?

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I’m sorry, but Stern is full of (( bleep )). And you can quote me on that.

For those of you who truly believe that the proposed CBA presented by the owners will help the small market teams, just remember where your ATLANTA HAWKS were after the 2003 – 04 season.

We were a team that had a TON of cap space. But because we were in full rebuilding mode, we couldn’t attract a SINGLE big name free agent to come to Atlanta. Why do think things will change if this new CBA goes into effect, and a team like the Bobcats were 20 million under the cap and could offer a superstar a MAX deal?

And why do fans ( and even some of these owners ) think that other owners wouldn’t set themselves up to purge their rosters just like Miami did, in hopes of getting a few All-Stars to come to their franchise?

As for the players, I’m not mad at them for doing this. This CBA was horrible one for players, especially the average bench player. This CBA would result in Josh Smith getting a MAX deal from someone in 2013, putting the Hawks in “checkmate” with no chance to re-sign him. It’ll also prevent the Hawks from possibly trading him to a big market team that may give them draft picks and/or expiring players . . or even a good player in return.

And Stern doesn’t even want to talk about the D-League provision, like it doesn’t even exist.

In the meantime, I would like to see the international reaction if some of our All-Stars played in these overseas leagues. I would imagine the atmosphere would be crazy over there. And don’t think for one minute that the corporations that currently back some of these players, will continue to back them when they play overseas.

For some that don’t want to go overseas, I would like to see them do these exhibition games, but maybe do them against some of these streetball teams. Ball Up ( the former And 1 Mixtape tour ) should team up with the former NBA stars, and put on exhibitions all over the country. Call it: “Ball Up vs The League”.

Instead of ultra competitive games, the players may have to continue to look at themselves as “entertainers who play basketball”. Contrary to popular belief, people will STILL pay to see these guys, even if they don’t have on their official NBA uniforms. Make your money that way players.

How about Ball Up vs the Atlanta All-Stars?

The ASG may not let them play at Philips Arena, but I’m sure that they could play at Georgia Tech or the Gwinett Center and get a real good crowd. Maybe better than the Hawks if they played a Tuesday night home game vs Toronto.

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slim jr, that was all clinton and democrats, along with his money policy cronies that are still in power and greenspan. bankers were able to really dig in to every pocket including yours and mine. i had to laugh at the look on bush’s face as the keys to the white house were passed on as i knew full well what was coming diwn the pipe. it was like oh sh!t what have i gotten into. what i didnt know was he would let the military industrial complex lead us into a two front war and put us into such debt thinking they would be snart enough to continue to negotiate our way to oil rather than fight on it.

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Pay Yo Rent Fool!

doc is spot on! The ASKG still got to make them Arena payments and light bill each month on a empty nest. Ugggh Hugggh …. That’s every 30 days fellas.

Don’t forget, them TV revenues will stop coming in …. Ouch! Oh snap! Did you forget about all that merchandise all over town & in the Arena Stores that will be just hanging there? And, it’s the Holiday Season too.

These players will get car title loans and banks will belined up to give them secured lines of credit knowing the lock out won’t last forever.

Billy & Dereck told these guys to save their money two years ago. I hope they listened. It’ll be good for everyone of the owners and players to feel our pain, at least 99% of us are used to budgeting.
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A teachable moment? I’d say so.

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what would be interesting if they could form aba teams drmary b problem wont be the smith horford joe johnsons they can survive not gettingloans,problem will be the jamal crawford mo evans etan thomas of the world also does this mean larry drew is done as coach he only had this year left and hinrich? guess start watching my alma mater uconnn for some college bball

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How 50 – 50 unfair the player are retarted, i wonder are the players understanding on how bad the economy is with more and more people out of work more foreclosures around the country, and getting worse by the min. How can aplayer agree with this union and not understanding the circumstances that going on globally wow!!!!!!!! this BS is crazy and player union should be baned.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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MC, if we have learned anything…its Stern is a very heady guy when it’s comes to negotiation. I would be shocked…if this caught Stern by surprise…this may have been what the hardliners wanted all alone.

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Players who may never see another NBA paycheck:

Older marginal players:
Earl Boykins..Eduardo Najera..Nazr Mohammed..Jason Collins
Etan Thomas..Baron Davis..Marcus Camby..Andre Miller..
Juwan Howard..Erick Dampier.. Ben Wallace..Jason terry

Ageing Stars:
Tim Duncan..Ray Allen..KG..Chauncey Billups..Jason Kidd..
Grant Hill..Antawn Jamison.. and ironically – *Derek Fisher !
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Rhetoric which is completely inappropriate ” nuclear winter “.
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Stern says and I agree;
this could take years in the court system.
Legal system does not make way for athletes.
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-boy oh boy-
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When de-certification becomes official;
Stern / owners are going to cancel [invalidate]
guaranteed contracts.
Joe rhymes with uh oh !
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Some players [such as Kevin Martin] already carping;
“why didn’t players get to vote” ?
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I agree with K.Martin & stern on that one.
Why didn’t Billy Hunter put it to a vote of the players.
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doc:
I would be a democrat if I were not a socialist.
-Also-
doc;
says he has a czech girlfriend – I have to write my girlfriend checks.

*note – [don't tell Mrs Grandad]
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Players flippin’ burgers,
no matter what;
owners won’t be flippin’ no burgers.
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The NBA says there are two problems. They are losing money and there are system issues.

Without going into why cutting salaries will have zero effect on the NBA losing money long term let me touch upon the system issues.

If the NBA brought in more revenue last year than ever before, why are system issues a problem for the league?

Were system issues a problem in the 80s when the Lakers/Celtics dominated the league?

Were they a problem in the 90s when the Bulls and Rockets were winning all the titles?

Were they a problem in the early 2000s when the Spurs/Lakers were dominate?

How come all of a sudden, when revenues are higher than ever, system issues are a problem?

On the other hand having players do a barnyard allstar tournament is like Harlem Globetrotters are great business for season one. Then people realize that they will always beat the Washington Generals.

If the owners of these 20 other franchises just simply want to be the Washington Generals and get tossed scraps from LeBron’s TV ratings, they’d never have bought NBA teams in the first place. Invest the money elsewhere if that is all they care about.

These guys all want the chance to compete, the chance to have a superstar on their roster and be a factor. You can’t have a league long-term without competitive balance. Doesn’t mean you can’t have great teams. But the great teams need to succeed on their merits not by virtue of being in a chosen market or situation.

A quick list of the few people who “won” today -

The agents.
This must be like Christmas, Birthday and New Years all rolled in to one. They finally get a chance to craft an NBA landscape in their image and are set to reap the benefits if they can win in the courts.

Having said that – I for one have no idea why the agents haven’t been negotiating for the players this whole time. I mean, that’s their job, right? These agents make bitches out of the owners 365 days a year and they would be able to negotiate a lot harder than Billy Hunter and a small collection of players. But I digress….

Players who signed with overseas teams early.
Deron Williams has already tweeted his giant “I TOLD U SO” like he has access to some kind of mythical crystal ball. Lets be fair Deron: you were lucky. The rest of the league will now be scrambling to land a deal abroad, making the ones already signed overseas look like geniuses.

Sports writers.
They finally get some rest after over 100 days and nights of camping out in hotel foyers.

Billy Hunter.
Got to press the big red button and sneak out of the back after what has been a pretty embarrassing year. If the players had accepted this deal he knew he was fired. So you have to wonder how hard he sold it to the players.

And the people who really lost today -

Small market owners.
Contraction is now a real threat to these teams. A franchise which lost $20m during one of the most profitable seasons in history are set to make a damning losses this year (and next year depending on what the league looks like). These owners must be feeling like they just accidently shot off a foot today.

NBA employees.
During a time of pretty horrific unemployment this seems like a fairly brutal way to treat NBA staff – but the reality is there are going to be a lot of lay-off and closed down business surrounding the arenas. Tough.

The fans.

Unlike 1998-99, these new jack players feel like they are being punked. Stern forgot his audience this go round. Back in 1998-99 he had Jordan, Ewing etc….guys who had been around who had (while unrealistic views) 2-3 years of college, super-agent David Falk and MJ along with Isiah Thomas (Union President at that time) had far more leverage than these young cats do now, BUT these young guns dont wanna be punked and Dave went too far with this crew….Moral of the story David, Know Your Audience!

Plus you have guys like Chauncey Billups saying I was there in 1998-99, them guys fought for me…I rather lose 14 million than accept a bad deal. That resonates to these young players. Regardless of what some of us may think

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Grandad, dude after what happen to BASG in court expenses…I disagree…some of these owners are in the same predicament as the players.

THE PLAYERS…are being advised by lawyers too…I seriously doubt a bunch of guys just sat down in a room…and said we gon reject the contract…with BILLIONS of dollars at steak.jeeeeeeeeze.

Get off these guys asssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!

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Section 303,

If I were an owner, I would push for an NFL like system. Cut the guarantee contracts..

Although there are non-guaranteed contracts, the NFL pays the players huge signing bonuses. Do you think NBA owners would want to do that? Plus, in the NFL, there are times when the players’ salary still counts against your cap even after being cut (depending on how the contract is written),
So there are a lot of challenges there.

Owners just need to be smarter with their money. Why give JJ 6 years, $124 mil? Why give Arenas the contract he receveid? What about Rashard Lewis? Turk? The list goes on.

Owners chose to give these guys horrible contracts. And now they want to blame the players?

I dont blame the players for going to court. Let the owners open up their books, and see how they are really spending their NBA money. I dont think there was any compromise from the owners. Maybe going to court will force the owners to bargain in good faith, something I dont think they have done so far.

That being said, I thought the players would take the deal.

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I don’t have an emotional or financial stake in the process. Hope they figure it out. In the meantime, the time I previously invested in paying any attention to my local team is being diverted to other interests and thus my allegiances diluted. Its really hard for me to care about whether Joe Johnson or ASG wins…sort of like picking a side in a contest between two drug dealers.

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There is nothing about the current system that can be fixed to encourage small market teams to be more competitive. The only ways to guarantee that are contraction (which will never happen as long as Stern is in charge) and elimination of free agency (which will never happen, period). Anything the owners say about this dispute that relates to improving competitive balance is a lie. They want more money, and they are trying to grab it from the players instead of holding themselves accountable to make better decisions.

By the way, that guy Gabriel Feldman is on Twitter and usually has some pretty intelligent takes on what is going on with this whole lockout situation.

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As Hawks fans we should be used to this type of disappointment.

Nothing to cheer about at the end of the season.

Only now it starts 6 months early.

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Verbatim!

O’Brien @ 736 AM: that is my take verbatim, so co-sign that.

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@vava74: “There is no money outside the USA – apart from China …”

That’s a huge exception, especially if one looks out over a 15-year time horizon. If one looks at the so-called small markets, there’s little money inside US from which to support professional basketball. The world’s largest civilization has a population well over 4 times that of US. Then there’s the rest of Asia. The NBA has dramatically increased its efforts to market the play of its players to a rapidly growing world market (especially China), and it’s working. According to Stern himself, as of 2009 NBA revenues from China were growing at an annucal clip of 30%-40%. But don’t take my word for it regarding this potential international opportunity, here’s what the Boston Globe had to say during the 2010 NBA finals:

“International sales make up 35 percent of the NBA’s overall merchandise business, and are expected to soar another 30 percent this year. More than half of NBA.com’s traffic is from outside America — more than for any other sports league…”

Nike gets it, so Phil Knight has sent his basketball ’stable’ to China and other parts of Asia in droves over the past 8-10 years. It’s working. Sure, no one’s coming to Portugal and other fairly small nation states in western Europe to market professional basketball and basketball related merchandise (why waste time and money), but China ain’t western Europe. Those who insist upon aimlessly peering into the rear view mirror on roads with one S-curve after another will almost assuredly crash and burn. The opportunity I speak of is for those who recognize the folly in that ‘rear view mirror’ approach to assessing future opportunities.

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o’b agreed with yours and najeh’s comments. the nfl still has incompetent organizations that run things on the cheap or mismanagement and this isnt like the nhl which really had no income stream beyond ticket sales with stupid salaries deserving a true restructure.

read woj in yahoo today for a good article and it wont let me post it here.

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I simply love watch the NBA devour itself. Mere words cannot express the joy of potentially wiping this mistake off the face of the Earth.

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The NBA strike…It don’t mean a thing, if they can’t buy new bling!

Owners: Come back, fellas, we’ll give you HALF of our profits to play some basketball!
Players: We want more than you make! Plus we want to wear fuzzy hats and snuggies to press conferences!
Owners: No fuzzy hats or snuggies, but we will give you extra road game tickets for your multiple extended families!
Players: Holla!

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Old Scratch

November 15th, 2011
12:35 pm
I simply love watch the NBA devour itself. Mere words cannot express the joy of potentially wiping this mistake off the face of the Earth.

Old Scratch, if the NBA is such a mistake why in the world you are wasting your time reading this blog? Did you just entered your comment? of did you read the other bloggers comments?

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since i was blocked on two occasions and lost some timely repartee that mc hasnt found yet i will print in full from sam amick that damns both the owners and stern especially and hunter somewhat:

The owners bear most of this blame. That much has to be said at the start. This was their game of running players off the road as they tried to get out of harm’s way. The players offered concession after concession — a 7-percent reduction of their share of basketball-related income that would have nearly wiped out the league’s purported $300 million in annual losses, changes to the system that would further improve the economics and a season to be had as long as that was actually the goal.

But instead of looking forward to the start of a 72-game season, we’re left with this: a group of NBA players, who felt not only defeated but also disrespected in this two-year process, taking the drastic move of disclaiming interest in their union on Monday. Their move takes the fight to the wrong kind of court and puts the 2011-12 season in serious peril.

They heard the endless ultimatums from commissioner David Stern that almost always came with condescending tones, the latest being a promise of a drastically worse “reset” offer if the current proposal was declined. Those players with the most power — from union president Derek Fisher to the eight other members of the executive committee — bristled when they studied the specifics of a deal. They saw the rules relating to the proposed luxury tax as an attempt to sneak a hard cap into their house. They fumed at the D-League idea in which players’ contracts could be circumvented. And while that clause was not in the formal proposal, it showed once again how tone deaf the owners must be and was seen as the latest middle finger from the league.

These are professional athletes whose egos and pride came into play here. And the hard-line owners either didn’t recognize that or didn’t care. They pushed too hard against a group that was on its heels from the start and failed to protect the spirit of partnership that could have been the key to a deal being done. They ignored the realities of these negotiations, their senselessness intentional and their end game taking precedence over all the rest.

And that’s why this is so dangerous for the players, why it’s so likely to turn into a prolonged death march and forever change the bank accounts and careers of their masses. Blame Stern for the tone of the talks, but he wasn’t lying about the devil-may-care attitude so many of his constituents continue to privately exude.

I would be shocked if the owners blink here, perhaps by calling the players’ new lawyer, David Boies, to sweeten the proposal and put an end to this madness. The owners will keep the gas on no matter how much damage they do — not just to the players and the game, but to the cities with publicly funded arenas that depend on the revenue and the workers who silently suffer in these already tough times. And whether it’s months or perhaps even years down the road, the players who will have paid the price will need to lick their wounds and have an overhaul of their own.

Their system within this system — the soon-to-be-defunct NBPA, intended to fairly represent some 420 players — clearly failed them. The union’s inefficiencies, the internal dysfunction on display and the inability of players to mobilize in an organized fashion helped doom this latest deal. That was embarrassingly evident in the days leading up to Monday’s decision. Union officials declined to share this proposal, deemed the league’s last and best, with the players who deserved a right to vote.

Three days came and went without any widespread communication between the union and its players, with the offer finally being leaked to USA Today on Sunday and later published by the league as part of its 11th-hour push to get it approved. With the 30 player representatives holding the only hope of word being spread from the top to the bottom of the workforce, sources consistently painted a pathetic picture of that key crowd.

Many reps weren’t calling their teammates, weren’t taking the time to understand the nuances of the $2 billion they still had an opportunity to have. Even on Monday, the most significant day of negotiations since the lockout began, there were no representatives from Portland, Utah or Sacramento in attendance.

Hunter is on the hook for that. Especially in light of his often-contentious relationships with agents who consistently questioned his leadership — an ongoing practice since he took over in 1996, causing him to become increasingly distant and dismissive of that group — you’d think he would have been more adamant about empowering and educating the players. But he chose the reactionary path of solitude — first with the owners during those first few months of negotiations, and later with the very agents he seems to despise.

In the days leading up to the decision to disclaim interest, sources said Hunter routinely received information from the group of seven agents who had been pushing for decertification from the start. He wanted a head count on how many players wanted that so-called nuclear option (roughly 130 were required and more than 200 were believed to be on board) and clearly took that threat into serious consideration before deciding to disclaim. While a decertification vote would have taken between 45 and 60 days, the disclaimer route almost instantly dissolves the union and allows players to file an antitrust suit against the league much sooner. Sources told SI.com on Saturday that the move looked likely, and a unanimous vote on Monday sealed this terrible deal.

There’s blame all around, and plenty of time to tell these tales.

you know we criticize the players but when it comes down to it they are just like us when we have to get counsel from lawyers or professionals to make the best decision which includes their agents. if this was such a good deal the agents and plenty of other folks would have been giving some advice to not do what they have done. they have to follow the best counsel they have and hope for the best like we do in similar circumstances.

i will say stern whenever he could tired to discredit and demean players advisors/counsel and became very personal even to bash the players by essentially calling them fools for not taking the last offer. that will not win you over anyone and it is like that is what he wants at this moment to be a hard baller. the take it or leave it mentality has struck some including me to name it for what it is.

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” yet all former millionaires..”

meaning:
they were all former millionaires at one time.

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Just When?

Just when has teams not spending available money under the cap an issue? And, what teams are guilty of spending less than 85% or 90%? And, are those teams competitive?

More importantly, isn’t it better to spend wisely than to spend just for the sake of spending?

I guess I have more questions than answers – hugh?

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Najeh,

The salary cap floor (85% – 90% of the cap) was mentioned, but I don’t think it was in the final proposal that Stern gave the players,

Early on, there were reports of players not being of one accord. However, I don’t think owners are all on the same page either. I think the small market teams and the big market teams are not in agreement.

For example, the pnealty for going into luxury tax becomes very expensive starting in year 3. I think This is an attempt to reel in the big spenders (Lakers, Knicks, Heat, Celtics etc).

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I’d like to see bowling become an EVEN MORE POPULAR PASTIME FOR MANY AMERICAN SPORTS FANS.It will keep bowling alleys funded and since bowling is fairly inexpensive it can and should enjoy even greater popularity;ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR FANS TO KEEP ACTIVE AS A RESULT OF THIS YEAR’S UNCONSCIONABLE “LOCKOUT” BY THE NBA OWNERS. I’m hoping to see the NBA become EVEN MORE IRRELEVANT to sports fans EVERYWHERE.

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Why don’t the players simply form their own league owned by the players? Put their money where their mouth is?

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Put it this way: even if the Heat had to fill the rest of their roster with minimum salary players due to a hard cap or luxury tax penalties, if LeBron and Bosh really wanted to join Wade in Miami, they would still do it. And there would still be plenty of veterans willing to take minimum salaries to play with them. And moreover, that team would still be one of the best teams in the league. There is nothing the NBA can do to stop that aside from eliminating free agency or contraction.

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mc, what is going on, i have lost about 6 posts today?

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Over priced admission. Over priced concession. Over paid players. Hand crafted stars and a floating rule system that is not even consistent game to game.

Both sides rob the people who fund the system. Yet like everything else, people feel the need to pick a side, log onto this site, and fight back and forth. Even if there was no lock out, people would pick one player, and argue against the other. And this is within a team.

There is a pride factor here. The media makes everything public fueling the pride factor. If it wasnt public knowledge through hourly updates, the people would never know who is asking for what. And who if being forced to make the most compromise. If the media does not make it a public competition, maybe these guys wont feel so much pressure.

Then you got these greedy agents in the back ground whispering in the players ears. I have a suggestion for these players in regards to these agents. There is very little effort put into negotiating these contracts. Most of the time its market value based on what the other guy got, and what you got last time. Cut the percentage you give these agents for getting you a contract you could probably get on your own. There is more money for you. And increase the percentage of the cut they get for getting you financial opportunities off the court. Motivate them to search and get creative on way to increase your earning potential off the court. More money for both of you.

These owners should invest a little more money in scouting and development of their current players. Hold their staffs to a higher standard to maximize their investments. Players are not coming in developed. They need to be taught how to play the game, and how to carry themselves to represent your business. As the owner of the business its your responsibility. Stop drafting 19 year old kids and giving them the keys to your business. Draft that 19 year old, and work with the young man. What do you expect when you allow a young man into your company, and let him live freely? What do you expect when you skimp on staff to find and mold these players? When the player places himself above your business, because you do not have, and never had the proper personnel and a plan, dont cry about losing. Thats on you.

ANd the fans of todays game are also not holding the teams and players they pay to see to a high enough standard. We got way too many stars with no accolades to back it up other than a entertaining youtube highlight video. Fans should not be looking at this lockout, and making a competition out of it. We pay these owners. They fought for months over our money. And we sit here and cheer them on as they all refuse to provide us with the service we pay for. There is no fear of consequence. The more support they receive, the harder they will fight for what they want. In the end you dont get what you want. Why should a fan care about a income split? We should care not about how they split our money, but about how much we are paying for, and what we are seeing. These guys argue about money. When this is all over with, what trickles down to the fans? If the owners get more of a split do we get a break on costs? Of course not. If the players get what they want, will it motivate them to work harder for our dollars? I would guess they are not thinking about that.

And lastly. Stop supporting these people on twitter. Stop eating up some of the reporters slop (I am not talking about you MC) Stop passing these rumors along. Stop paying attention to them. Most of it is BS. You put money in they pocket too. You motivate them to make things up. And what they are doing is prying into sensitive negotiations. Compromising them by exposing their positions, offers and opinions. Making it even more difficult to get a deal done. Social media has changed our society. But somethings should remain off limits. A bargaining session worth billions of dollars should not be tampered with at all by anyone outside of the room. These pathetic people are huddled around outside hugging their handhelds reporting when and speculating on what they eat. Getting into fights. Reporting getting kicked out. Reporting their interpretations of facial expressions. Or what some nobody who claims to know someone who heard something had to say. And why do they keep doing it? Because you keep clicking it, reading it and passing it along.

At this point everyone holds a equal portion of the blame. Players, owners, agents, media, fans. Everyone. Joined hands in a circle reluctantly square dancing around a table with a piece of paper on it we all want signed.

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Does anyone else think Stern is blowing this? His arguing for the owners and strong demands are just making the problem worse, in my opinion.

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“If LeBron and Bosh really wanted to join Wade in Miami, they would still do it.” – Najeh

Well, they did do it. There was no consideration of luxury tax payments in MIA. They slashed salary and the players took sub-max deals to play together. This has the owners scared spitless. They assumed that nobody would take less than the max and that player greed would contain player movement. Wrong.

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I am very seldom in 100% agreement of what Najeh says at times, but I am on this lockout issue. In 4 years, people are still going to be wondering how the large market teams are still acquiring talent, while badly run small market teams are still losing out.

Najeh is explaining this perfectly.

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And I also think you are wrong about the measures being able to balance at least some the competitive balance.

I don’t think you can get enough veterans on board for the veterans’ minimum to pair with Lebron, Wade and Bosh just for the sake of winning and fill up a roster. I really don’t.

Only guys at the back end of their careers will consider that since younger cats want to make their money and at the speed that they spend it, the veteran’s minimum after taxes is virtually nothing for these guys.

Juwan Howard, Bibby, Dampier… that’s the profile you will get more frequently and frankly, most of these guys will get you nowhere. NOWHERE.

Yes, big markets will continue to be big markets, but if the tax penalties get so high on those franchises, the distribution of the resulting cash to the other smaller market franchises may allow these to enter luxury tax territory as well without risking huges losses.

The latest proposal by NBA was not perfect, by all means, but it was not the total disaster that the players are claiming to be.

The fact is that the previous CBA was too much “pro-player” and left too much leeway for big spenders overspend.

The fact is that peopla behave similarly everywhere, anywhere: the same criticism that is put on the table on Owners not spending wisely and placing themselves in bad financial position is the same that can be made to so many players on their own financial miss management that it would be impossible to name them all here.

You need to create rules that keep people under control, owners and players*.

*I would, for instance, create an even more robust mandatory pension scheme which would withhold up to 25% of the players’ salary, with the differential between the current withholding levels to be repaid back to the player over the 15 years following the end of their careers (to add up to their normal pension which runs until they are 62).

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Now, this is an idea:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7058281/we-need-renegade-basketball-league

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QUESTIONS:

1. If the season is canceled, what happens with the NBA draft in June?

2. What happens to the years left on players contracts? Will we owe JJ one less year or will the years left on contracts pick up where it left off.

3. Can the NBA use “scab” replacement players?

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The NBA Cares?

If, the NBA really cared? Then why don’t they take the luxury tax collected and re-gift it to the small market teams that are supposedly losing money.

Why is when capitalistic companies that are deemed too big to fail, readily scream for bail outs. Conversely, when the hard working middle class fall on hard times and collect unemployment insurance, (which is what insurance is for)?

The privileged few call them welfare recipients, lazy, poor, stupid, undeserving, a burden to society and the programs that fund them: socialist-ic?
______________

Class Warfare is the mantra of the day it seems.

Carpe’ Diem.

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question for hawks fans do u think hawk fans would rather have a memphis type of team as far as the type of star players or the okc type of team as far as the type of stars go and which type of team do u think would have more box office success and put more fans in the seats in philips arena even if the postseason results were gonn be the same for either team saying conference finals or better for a 3 year window? i am curios and have a follow up question

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brigadier jerry,

WHICH TEAM, would get the first pick in the 2012 draft, since technically, there was no “worse” record, if the season is canceled…

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As a season ticket holder, and obvious basketball fan I’ve tried to stay informed on this mess. I recently attended a Disney event at the arena and spoke to an usher who said that the entire staff there is struggling as a result of the lockout. No Thrashers, and no Hawks means zero work for these people. I hate seeing things drag on, but I hate the collateral damage even more. Both sides need to consider that it’s not the Millionaires on either end taking the brunt of the damage, but the blue collar workers that are now unemployed.

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Najeh,

You are forgetting that the owners have to come up with state of the art venues and fund its occupation and operation, as well as setting up training facilities, planes, hotels, etc.

Owners do have an influence in the packaging since they have to set up the daily logistics for it to happen.

Just to secure 42 dates in a venue like Philips Arena you need to come up with either $$ on the table or guarantees that these $$ will be there even if the 42 nights end up filled with empty seats.

NBA franchises are big big businesses and very expensive and complex to run:

You have 60 million payrolls, plus millions in planes, hotels and daily expenses with food and player pampering.

Players even get daily pocket cash (100$) on top of their wages as if they were pampered kids!!!!

As for MIA reaching the finals with that collection of cadavers, I can give you the opposite examples which show you situations which would become rarer like for instance CLE and ORL reaching the Finals with just one star player surrounded with role players (but ORL had a high payroll, I know).

I simply refuse to believe that MIA’s set up will ever be successful but even so I prefer that the league tries to prevent that type of situation.

Everything you can do to give each franchise a star player or someone who at least can be perceived as one is good in comparison with what CLE and TOR had last year.

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vava74 good point u can make the argument the hawks are similar to a cleveland had with lebron although smith and horford are good players

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Right – A – Wrong!

“i want the league to “fix” the system to where more teams can vie for a championship. there are about 12 teams that don’t have an effin’ shot this year, if there were games bein’ played:

kings, warriors, clippers, bucks, hawks, timberwolves, bobcats…to name a few. make it so that more teams can compete like the nfl” – ant banks-
___________________

Great thoughts here. What IF, the NBA contracts were non-guaranteed, with performance based triggers & signing bonuses?

This willow for wrongs-righted, address fake injuries, drive performance, accelerate player movement to smaller markets and with a hard cap, (no luxury tax clauses) but penalties for going over, (like a loss of picks in higher rounds, i.e. 5th – 7th) you would have some real parity in the league.

Sounds a little like The NFL – hugh?

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Shout Out!

To Najeh for being his usual brilliant self!
BTW Najeh, any new analaphors I can steal from you
to depict the 8 caricatures, who are still occupying the ASKG executive offices? LOL!

In other news:
_____________
Mike Vick has two broken ribs … Ouch! Sit him down next week. No sense in puncturing his lungs, let’s see what Vince Young can do to help out.

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Greedy players, greedy owners. Fans are screwed!

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Hire replacement players and start over.

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1st Amendment Right!
_________________

Franco Harris fired by casino for supporting Joe Paterno



By Romain Blanquart, Detroit Free Press

Franco Harris played for Penn State and Joe Paterno from 1969-71.

By Erick Smith, USA TODAY

Updated: 2011-11-16 12:17 PM

Franco Harris’ support of his former Penn State coach Joe Paterno has caused him to lose a job.

Harris was hired last month by the Meadows Race Track and Casino along with former Pittsburgh Steelers teammate Rocky Bleier to “assist the entertainment facility with various outreach activities, charitable events and public appearances.”

The group announced Tuesday Harris had been fired for his public comments.

“In light of the recent developments with Franco Harris regarding Joe Paterno’s dismissal, Franco and The Meadows have mutually decided to put their business relationship on hold at this time, while these matters are looked into further,” a release said.

Harris played for Paterno from 1969-71 before a Hall of Fame career with the Steelers and Seattle Seahawks.

Last week, he questioned the school’s decision to fire Paterno amid a sex abuse scandal involving former coach Jerry Sandusky. Paterno has been criticized for failure to be more aggressive in reporting Sandusky’s alleged crimes.

“I feel that the board made a bad decision in letting Joe Paterno go,” Harris said. “I’m very disappointed in their decision. I thought they showed no courage, not to back someone who really needed it at the time. They were saying the football program under Joe was at fault.”

MORE:  Follow Erick Smith on Twitter
____________________

Freedom of Speech is a right. Unfortunately, exercising your rights has consequences and can get you fired.
Until all the facts are understood, I guess we should keep our opinions and words to ourselves?

Personally, I don’t think Franco Harris should have lost his job though. He is a HOF inductee, I think? He definitely was treated too harshly, IMHO. What do you fellas think?

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dr. mary b…,

franco harris’ view differ wildly from his employer, so he got the axe. if i had a philosophical difference with my employer, i would keep my mouth shut. the whole nation, outside of pa., is against joe pa’s inactivity in reporting the abuse of a child by a coach who was on his staff, while using the school’s facilities to do it. FRANCO WAS AN EFFIN’ IDIOT TO SIDE WITH JOE PA, PUBLICALLY.

DID YOU READ BARRY SWITZER’S OPINIONS? VERY SCATHING REMARKS!! I HAVE FOUND A NEW LEVEL OF RESPECT FOR BARRY AFTER HIS COMMENTS

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@dr mary b,

franco was the face of that company. if he makes those public sentiments regarding a man who is at the epicenter of a child molestation case and the casino does nothin’…does the casino support molesters? by cuttin’ ties with franco, the casino is unequivocally stating that they don’t support anyone failing to report child abuse…

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buddy some good points to show inequities will get worse and small franchises and cities get it worse. the small cities are still exected to provide venues that equal the big boys or the club leaves town ie seattle come sacramento. the club gets what it wants. also the jettison rule will only fortify or work well for the big s

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*yawn* *yawn* *yawn*

To get my mind off this NBA stuff I’m headed to Rio tomorrow.

FIRE SUND

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There appears to be a great deal of Schadenfreude on this site.

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Penn State.

It’s one thing to be homosexual, but it’s a whole different ball game to sexually predate on kids. Kids put in your trust should be held sacred. Pedophilles, I can guarrantee you this. Satan has a special place waiting for you beside him in hell!!!!!!

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A man raping a boy is an homosexual, perverted, child abusing act. But its first, homosexual.

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Tenancy!

“Ok hold up, that’s where you lost me. You do realize that the owners only put up a fraction of the cost for new arena construction, right? ” -My Buddy-
____________________

I believe these NBA teams sign 99 Year leases. Phillips Arena was one of the three properties that the ASKG held, along with The Thrashers and The Hawks!

Wasn’t the gist of the most recent lawsuit against The ASKG legal group that: the three entities were unable to be divided and sold separately? Also, I believe those municipal bonds have scheduled balloon payments along the repayment process. That money has to be accounted for and escrowed monthly – I’m sure. Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m just shooting from the hip based on common logic.

I hope everyone finds common ground, so we can all watch pro basketball soon. I don’t care about all the shenanigans. Just play ball – right?

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From Najeh:

“To be clear, I am not necessarily saying a player-run league would work. I am just saying that the owners’ contribution to “packaging” the product is minimal, and the owners are a lot more replaceable than the players are. The credit for packaging the product lies primarily in David Stern’s hands, and saying the owners deserve a larger piece of the pie for packaging the product is giving credit to the wrong people. I mean really, what exactly does the DASG do to promote the Hawks that anyone on this blog couldn’t do better?”

*************************

LOL . . . perfectly explained. As an outsider of Atlanta, one of the big things that hurt me was when the Hawks went from having games broadcasted on 750 AM ( which on a clear night can be heard damn near all over the Southeast ), to 680 AM ( a station that can barely be heard 20 from the broadcast station ).

While I have gone on my rants about the fans not showing up like they should to Hawks games, I did have to admit that the ASG marketed this team very poorly around ATL. Weak radio station to carry games . . weak advertising all around . . refused to market even its most popular players, instead, opted to market superstars and teams coming into ATL to try to get fans to go to games.

About the owners do of significance, is write the checks ( which is very significant ). But even that doesn’t get done if it wasn’t for the players generating part of the revenue to have the check written.

People bet not get this twisted. IF the NBA superstars all decided to go to Europe and Asia to play basketball, the European and Asian leagues would flat out EXPLODE in popularity, while the NBA would slowly DIE. And that would be because the league could no longer boast that they have the best players in the world playing in it.

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WMD!

“. Sanduski:
- Presumed Innocent Until Proven guilty -
The last time I checked he / we live in the USA.
*[not trial by espn]
Preponderence of evidence says he’s guilty – right ?
Wrong – the only evidence that you / we know about
is what the media has let you hear or read.
*Further – Joe Pa – has not been accused of *any crime* !
“I don’t give a damnation what financial planning this 80 yr old man did in June”
And the Big 10, 11, 12 can suck eggs for takin’ his name off the trophy.
When and if Sanduski is found guilty then fine !
When and if Joe Pa is even “accused of a crime” then fine !
Until then … I still live in this here US of A !” -Grandaddy-
_____________________

Yeah … OK, and there are Weapons od Mass Destruction in Iraq too. So, based on the logic, the whole Penn State saga was a made up story and kids are crying “wolf”, people are being fired for no reason and heads are rolling up a hill.

LOL!

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To Kill a Mocking Bird!

Don’t hate the Messenger – Hate the Crime!

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Everyone needs to go to espn;
Bill Simmons Page 2
Podcast.
Talking about the lockout !

Great Great info !

It lasts about an hour – really good listening + informative.

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Smoke, Fire & Mirrors!

Grnad-Daddy, one thing is undisputed: there is a LOT of smoke here to say there is no Fire. The mirrors remind me of a Fun Room at the Carnival. I can’t tell where all the people are coming from.

Barring all the talking heads, there is a big ole’ hot fish stinking up the room. Now, one might say, “I don’t see a fish!” But, my friend, the stench is undeniable.

Innocent until proven Guilty is about as much an oxy-moron as Lady Justice is Blind. Just look at the disproportionate number of minorities incarcerated versus those who are not. I’m just sayin’ – this Perp-State story is real! A Real fine mess! A National disaster!

I’m sure there is plently of blame to go around. Ask, Ray Gricar the former DA. Oops! He disappeared and is presumed dead already.

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vava & Mary Ellen

Yawl are both missing my point.
I’m not saying Sandusky is innocent.
” But what if, just what if he is ? ”
vava – you cannot convict anyone because they hesitate.

Okay, so he showered with kids, charge him with ______________?

My point is you must let it play out.

Joe Pa has already been punished. Punished !
Punished, smeared, raked over the coals, legacy destroyed;
And He hasn’t Even Been Charged With A Crime !

Don’t you get it ?
They have already punished one man for a crime …
that another man has been charged with …
and he [Sandusky the accused] hasn’t even gone to trial yet.

Where’s the logic ?

Mary Ellen – you brought up the race card;

“Just look at the disproportionate number of minorities
incarcerated versus those who are not”

how much worse would it be if this country did not:
“presume innocence until proven guilty”.

We must preserve that concept … Plus …
-Guilt-
(a) the Burden of Proof is on the Prosecutor
-Must be Proven-
(b) Beyond a Reasonable Doubt to a Moral Certainty

This is The American Judicial System.

Preserved by The “Bill of Rights”

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I have Three grown children and two young granchildren.

My position on this has nothing to do with whether or not
I love my children and grandchildren.

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actually vava here in the states it is very hard to go after sex offenders and the worst kind, folks within your own family which there are a lot more of than the sandusky’s of the world and others that may be close or certainly have more bucks in the long run.

for example, i know of a very educated woman after a divorce finding out about some very indiscreet language and touches from her former husband on their daughter, then about 15. first of all trying to find out where to get the social and legal assistance was a murky and tenuous foggy trail where no agency wanted to take the accountability. it took winding her way through three different court municipal systems and legal agencies. she also had legal aide but the former husband was a lawyer and would have had deep pockets to defend himself, whereas, she didnt get the good payout to be on at least equal footing at the divorce and was left with little. she was shocked at both the attitude towards her and the maize in which she had to travel but she didnt give up but wondered what happens to those of less means and education and mobility.

the kicker and where she did call a halt to it was where the courts would have put the daughter on the stand in front of her dad to make the accusations and it could not be done through an intermediary event like a legal document of the accusation taken into court. i guess one could say they have enabled him but the protection is for the victim in these cases as much similar as in rape cases, the same system supports perpetrators ala big ben of the steelers. it pretty much destoryed the girl and ben is now rich and happily moving on being supported by his posse made up of policemen making sure all the evidence was cleaned up after him. this was just as disgusting as sandusky but because it was an older young girl not even out of college in the wrong place she became guilty not he.

in this case, they handled it by taking her out of the situation in other words no more contact with the father, which the girl could do as a choice as she was of age to decide. the problem at times is an imbalance of wealth and power and that sometimes wins, when justice doesnt take the right action. the integrity of the courts and institutions is at question here not individual action from the catholic church to the penn state situation to the local governments cash strapped with disempowered people due to political shenanigans behind the scenes with politicians, lawyers and judges not doing the right things, too.

sometimes all you can do is remove yourself from the situation and move on which is what they decided to do as the consequences emotionally and physically to the girl which are already great might be near impossible to overcome. until you have been there or seen it up close then hold judgement on others and their guilt. sandusky is the guilty party and should be held responsible just as big ben should have and let the investigations go on without interferences which will be many. ultimately the penn state authorities are going to pay reparations because of the neglect within the administrative structure in this situation. also when that appears to be the likely outcome there will be more folks coming out of the woodwork to accuse sandusky as well.

the only true inequality is in political power and economic power and a soild education that is more and more imbalanced until people wake up and insist on children getting an education not a facsimile. this should be the concern of minorities and disempowered rather than handouts, sorry. also this same group has to demand equal voice in how things are run, in other words more transparency to government and what actions it takes. there should be more options for the community to see what really goes on.

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I am sorry, but there is literally no reason why a grown man should be showering with young boys. Hard to presume innocence after that.

Also, pedophilia may or may not be a mental illness but it is not one that defeats self-control. I like Jada Fire but that doesn’t mean I am going to rape her if I see her. Mental illness is no excuse for what Sandusky did. He should have kept his dick in his pants and used his imagination on his own time if that’s what he liked.

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Najeh,

Absence of self control in a situation like this is a mental disorder. Sickening, but an illness nevertheless.

Everyone else made a conscious choice to participate in a cover up in order to protect a multi million dollar football programme so they would not jeopardize their stake in it.

The school dismissed him from the football programme but still gave him a physical base on campus.

A guiltier choice/behaviour than Sandusky’s IMO.

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i will try again but many posts were lost recently trying to do so and never recovered by MC:

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201111/ncaa-unintentionally-leaks-hidden-financial-secrets

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When you don’t have to pay your workforce, it is very easy to make money.

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Najeh Davenpoop

November 17th, 2011
1:16 pm

Right on. The NCAA is a sham. Under the guise of “amateur sports” the only thing remotely amateur is that the players do get paid whilst $$$$$$ are to be made by everyone else.

Slavery is a more precise way of putting it than Amateur.

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doc, anyone could have guessed that a labor negotiations in the midst of the current economy would not go particularly well. The NFL is recession proof but not the NBA. I don’t know that I need too much transparency to guess that since 2008, owners have less in fan-related revenue AND corporate sponsorhips than in prior years. Yet expenses have gone up. That is why I am for a “temporary” concession to the owners, giving the economy a little more time to recover so that (in the case of the Hawks), they could charge Home Depot more money for the in-game contest without risk that Home Depot (whose revenue is likely down due to fewer home moves) won’t balk and take their diminished advertising budget elsewhere. Not to mention that we shouldn’t have to ask for too much transparency to make an assumption that double-digit unemployment negatively impacts discretionary spending.

I think it is possible to view Stern with a fair amount of skepticism AND find legit reasons why owners are facing an uphill battle to maintain/grow revenue while payroll expenses remain flat (at best). Again, I would not suggest a long-term deal that allows owners to make hand-over-fist in 6 years when manna is flowing again, but I could also see why there are some hard-liners who need a far better CBA than previous deals struck.

Ultimately, a deal that leaves both sides feeling less than happy is what will eventually spell success.

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“@doc – show me some transparency as we all know to the penny what payers make in real terms not in accounting wizardry. we all know how much fudge goes on.”

Please explain to us the workings of the “fudge.” I’m an accountant but no one bothered to inform me that I was a wizard.

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I understand that it is owners who bear the risk, and given the economy, that’s a huge risk. But players have made most (if not all) concessions. What concessions have owners made?

The league lost ~$300 mil last year, and by players coming down from 57% to 51% BRI, that would cover almost $300 mil.

But imo, the owners do not seem willing to compromise, and want to be protected from themselves. Players have gone as far as to say that they are ok with 50% BRI if the owners will give back on some of the other issues.

But the owners refuse to budge.

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Supreme Grand Poobah Blogman,

By coming down from 57% BRI to 51% BRI, the players have given back ~$300 mil per year, over a possible 10 year span (if the sides dont opt out before then). I think thats where the $3B comes from.

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Astro Joe – well said.

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supeme you saying accountants dont cook the corporate books?

ever hear of anderson?

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doc – not everyone is crooked. you paint the picture that we all are, and I don’t appreciate it.

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Hedge Hogs!

“The NFL is recession proof but not the NBA. ” – Astro Joe -
______________

Hedge Funds, Bank of America, Gold & Sachs (that name alone says a mouth full), Lehman Brothers (can you say nopetism?) and AIG! What do they all have in common?

Answer: They are deemed “Too Big to Fail”. They are not in a recession, they were bailed out in the blink of an eye by the middle class taxpayers!

Recession? R U kidding me? The fat cats have made more money in the past three years than we can count. These people don’t work hard, they move money around and they make money off money. Do they pay luxury taxes? Hell to the naw! They slide through loop holes with lawyers and accountants.

The NBA may have made less money since 2008, but less that what? A hundred million south of a billion? Sorry, but I have no tears for the struggling billionaire – forgive me.

A broke billionaire has no relativity to a broke factory worker. And, that’s who goes to the games – the everyday man is the fan base. I have to side with the players in this fight.

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I’d be willing to bet that the ASG doesn’t have collectively a net worth of $1 billion. That’s why they were looking for another outside investor. Meruelo got out while the gettin’ was good.

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supreme basg made their bed by going into an ego war with the guy who made up 30% of the money wasnt it and kicked him out.

14 billionaires in the nba owner club though.

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poobah, no, you arent all crooked but accountants through laws can move profits and losses from here to there and why they better be good at what they do. some are very crooked though, heard of madoff? they are people and some are good and some bad but are you saying accountants cant find loopholes to make things the way it looks best? again, i want to see transparency and the courts will provide it so maybe in the end the owners might back off a bit, find compromises within the club to compensate the haves from the have nots and go on. i imagine the players would like to see the books, too.

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Mary, I must have missed it where the players objected to the 50% split. I thought they objected to the “system rules”. And as a fan, I mostly support the owners version of many of the system rules because it would help my team. I understand that there is a movement in this country to hate anyone with wealth, but if the good idea comes from the person with wealth, I can’t simply dismiss it because the wealthy guy came up with it. And limiting how much money a luxury-paying team and spend on a FA sounds like a really, really good idea to me. Correcting market prices because some dumb owner gave the farm away to James Posey or Travis Outlaw sounds completely reasonable. Again, I must have missed the outrage from the players about the 50/50 spolit, the outrage I read about was more pointed to issues OTHER than the collective payroll of the players.

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Most corporations do not make their books available to their employees. However, if that will placate the players, I guess they should do it. I just hear a lot of folks talk about the so-called double dipping when it comes to player contracts. You can only expense a player’s contract once. Consider the example of our beloved Hawks. When Joe signed his first contract, he got a $20 million up front payment. Did the team get to expense the full amount of that up front payment? No, they got to expense 1/5 (I think that contract was for five years versus the present 6 year disaster) of the contract. This is the so-called “contract depreciation” (amortization actually).

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“Most corporations do not make their books available to their employees. ”

Most corporations are not government-sanctioned monopolies with antitrust exemptions and collective bargaining.

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“Slavery is a more precise way of putting it than Amateur”

I wouldn’t go that far. They are still being provided room and board and, for whatever its worth (not that much in my opinion), a free “education”. I would liken it more to colonialism than slavery. The players are given a few token perks in exchange for being exploited by the more powerful colleges and NCAA.

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slavesgot room, board and a very severe lesson in life najeh, but yes it is a bit of a reach to call it that. indentured servitude is better.

again astro logic and rationale is not what is going on in these “negotiations”. if there were then we would see basketball nba style by now. this is nba owners pleading this is the same as the nhl and due to many revenue streams it aint so. some remember or owned nhl teams and think it will all end up like that. well it will, because revenues in the end will resemble hockey if they arent careful.

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Najeh, the NBA owners don’t have as much risk as an owner of a car dealer but the NBA player certainly has an advantage over the car dealers sales force too. From what I previously read (which may be incomplete), the players recognize that one side shouldn’t bear the burden of a product in decline and were willing to compromise from the original 57% agreement. My guess is that concession was based on some economic reality and not just because they were in a good mood.

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doc, I just don’t know what issue the owners need to relent. I’ll try to study up some more, but I tend to agree with many of the system issues that have previously been discussed. My guess is the split will be within a penny of 50/50 when all is said and done…. I think the players simply want to maintain the freedom to choose to play for the Lakers at the same salary as they could get from the Clippers (despite one team having $20M more in total payroll). And sorry, I personally don’t like that answer as a fan. At this rate, the only chance Blake Griffin has to win a title is if he plays for a luxury-tax playing team. And that shouldn’t be the requirement for a player to win a title.

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Guess what doc, LeBron can’t win even with multiple all-star buddies. If they were going to pay him more money in Cleveland, I don’t know how you can accuse Cleveland of being cheap. Why is it that if the team’s management did what LeBron, Wade and Bosh did, it would be considered “tampering”? Players like Jordan, Bird, Magic, et al took pride in the fact that they could win on their own, without having to bring in a bunch of ringers to do it. Players just don’t want to have to do it the hard way. I hope LeBron never wins another playoff round.

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Question for you Astro . . .

Understanding the “system issues” the owners want to implement, how does that help the Atlanta Hawks? How do those “system issues” help us reach the NBA Finals?

Those “system issues” are what the NBA is trying to sell to the general public. So can you explain with a few examples how the proposed CBA by the owners can help the Hawks go from a mid-level playoff team, to a championship contending playoff team?

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Blame Game!

“I’m sure Anderson may have been involved in some hijinks there, but if so, it was in collaboration with Peregrine’s own personnel. It’s just the way things go in America. Don’t accept responsibility and blame your shortcomings on someone else.” -supreme poobah-
___________________

That’s a fair assessment and probably very true.

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Well Northcyde, they might as well contract the league down to about four teams, because they are the ones with deep enough pockets to “buy” their titles. Unfortunately, franchises like ours are just out of luck. These few remaining franchises would become the equivalent of all-star teams, and I don’t know about you, but watching the all-star game fast break drill is rather boring to me. No defense, no strategy, just get out there and run. Sloppy turnovers? No problem. Some folks may like that, but I’m not one of them.

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Wait a minute:

A few elite players are supposed to have the “right”
or “privelege” to pick and choose their teams.
And this is granted to them because … why … ?

My point;
If this is all about LeBron or Chris Paul or Melo,
gaining the ability to have the freedom to pick
and choose their teams because, why ?

I’m not talking about free agency or normal player movement.

I’m talking about Super Players having Super Privileges,
to go out and gather Super Teams.

This is not about Dan Gilbert and slavery or indentured servants;
but entitled, spoiled players.
[a generation of which that has arisen since the inception of AAU]

I agree with SGPB;
I do not wish for a league of 8 super teams and 22 have nots.

There are some [Bill Simmons] who believe that;
two NY teams, two Chicago teams, two LA teams, 1 Boston team,
plus one more Big mkt should have all the talent, while the others
play for the fun of it. Fans in those cities [small mkts] would come
only to see the stars.
While the play-offs & championships are for TV and played by
Big mkt teams.

I’m off topic.

LeBron pissed off the owners when he gave the league a giant FU
and said basically I’m bigger than the league, the owners, everyone,
” I rule the world ” !

Now the owners are saying:
“wait just a minute”

I’m only talking about “competitive balance”

I ain’t smart enough to talk about “”"amortization”"” and such.

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If memory serves:

Cleveland had the best record in the league.
Dan Gilbert & or Danny Ferry -did- go out and aquire:
*Antawn Jamison & *Shaq -plus- re-signed *Zydrunas Ilgauskas.
along with *Mo Williams (all-star), *Anderson Varejao, *Delonte West,
*Daniel Gibson, and *JJ Hickson … not the worst roster in history.
* not to mention … LeBJ *

Now could they have found a better coach; ? sure.
Did LeBJ want a real Coach; ? nah .

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Amazing video of a high school senior from Columbia TN who kicks the ball dead straight 75-80 yards in the air. He was successful on 54 of 54 attempts this season….100%. Now he needs a college team. For some crazy reason, he wants to go to Georgia Tech…not sure why?

Watch for yourself…it is unreal!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_JKwgwFY3g

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northcyde, as I understand it, teams that exceed the luxury tax would have a smaller mid-level exemption than teams below the luxury tax. So if the Hawks and the Mavs were both competing for the services of Player A, the Hawks would conceivably have the advantage in terms of offering a better contract. Likewise, sign & trades for luxury-paying teams would either be forbidden or restricted. So using sign & trades to create a super-team that blows well past the luxury tax would either be impossible or highly improbable. That allows other teams to get in on the action for better players. Amnesty would help correct prices of previously overpaid players. Instead of the Agent of Player B being able to reference someone like James Posey as the baseline for a middling SF, Posey likely gets cut, has his salary sliced in half by his future team and now that price for a middling SF is lowered (which helps teams with less revenue). Those are some of the system issues I previously read about that could help the lower-revenue teams compete with the higher revenue teams. And by the way, those issues don’t “hold back” the players. If the Hawks “amnesty Marvin”, he still gets his ~$25M from the Hawks for the next 3 years. Let’s say he signs with Team Q for $10M over 3 years, Marvin goes from a projected income of $25M in the next 3 years to $35M over that same period.

doc, yes, incompetence can be found on every side. But the fact still remains that 67% of the teams in this league aren’t sniffing a title because the current system isn’t designed for parity. It is far miore than just strength of scheduke, it is also neutralizing “organic” advantages based on geography, wealth and revenue. That is why Green Bay and Pittsburgh can produce teams that win as much (or more) than teams from NYC or Chicago.

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astro your model doesnt work as this is a monopoly/club instead of a yrue competitive business. owners will never have to compete unless they want to and it is not really market driven.

green bay and pittsburg have been two of the better and more stable organizations over the last half century with one literally owned by the town members. bad analogy there. what happened to arizona tampa and atlanta in that same period? we traded away brett farve.

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“the NBA is more like MLB than NFL. That was my point, that parity is defined based on the rules of the league, not just competent owners.”

The NBA isn’t really like either one, because more than owner competency or league rules, what defines the NBA is the nature of the sport. Neither of those other sports is defined by superstars the way basketball is. LeBron surrounded by garbage can get to the NBA Finals. Alex Rodriguez or Adrian Peterson surrounded by garbage can and will still lose. There are only five players on the court at a time in basketball, and each one plays both ends of the floor, which means one great player has a much bigger impact than he would in those other sports.

When success in basketball is so predicated on having a great player, and there are not enough truly great players for each team to have one, there will never be parity. Some team will have LeBron anchoring their team while some other team will have Tyreke Evans or Joe Johnson anchoring them. That will always be the case and is completely independent of whatever system is implemented, regardless of how mid-level players’ salaries are limited. And when there is no superstar to anchor the team, the impact of a mid-level player is minimal anyway, so the under-the-tax Hawks being able to outbid the over-the-tax Mavs for the Erick Dampiers of the world isn’t going to do much to improve competitive balance.

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“A few elite players are supposed to have the “right”
or “privelege” to pick and choose their teams.
And this is granted to them because … why … ?”

Everyone has the right to pick and choose their teams. That was established by Curt Flood and Oscar Robertson.

“I agree with SGPB;
I do not wish for a league of 8 super teams and 22 have nots.”

I agree with this too. I think pretty much everyone does, including Bill Simmons (I don’t think you are fully understanding his argument). The problem is that no matter what the system is, it is impossible for all 30 teams in the NBA to be competitive. There is not enough superstar talent to make that happen even if player movement was completely restricted and talent was distributed completely evenly. That’s why all this talk about competitive balance rings hollow to me. Of course I want competitive balance. It’s just not going to happen because of “system changes” and BRI redistribution.

If you want every team to be competitive, it’s time to get rid of six teams.

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Fight Night!

I never seen a fan buy ring side seats, to see Don King’s hair. I never seen a fan buy ring side seats, to see if tHe boxer was wearing Mizuno shoes. I never seen a fan buy ring side seats, to see if the boxer was wearing Everlast shorts. I never seen a fan buy ring side seats, to see if the boxers were drinking Gatorade versus Powerade. I never seen a fan buy ring side seats, to see which team had a better cut man. I never seen a fan buy ring side seats, to see which boxer had the better corporate sponsor. I never seen a fan buy ring side seats, to see how much the purse would be if the fight went 90 seconds or 12 rounds. I never seen a fan buy ring side seats, to see which boxer trained running up stadium stairs or down a mountain side. I never seen a fan buy ring side seats, to see an announcer say, “Let’s get ready to R U M B L E!”

The only thing I ever seen a fan buy a ring side seat for: is to see – one helluva rumble!

Here’s my point: from a fan’s perspective, I go to NBA games at Show Time, to see “The Big Show” and have no interest whatsoever in the side show. I got my ticket – but the arena is blacked out?

Can I get a refund?

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yup to najeh, competitive balance is a pipe dream unless more superstars drop out of the sky.

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doc, grandad, you may like reading this:

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/mike-mcqueary-what-angers-most-is-they-see-themselves-when-they-consider-his-actions-in-penn-state-sex-abuse-scandal-111711

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NBA proposal:

“14. Amnesty
• Each team permitted to waive 1 player prior to any season of the CBA (only for contracts in place at the inception of the CBA) and have 100% of the player’s salary removed from team salary for Cap and Tax purposes.
• Salary of amnestied players included for purposes of calculating players’ agreed-upon share of BRI.
• A modified waiver process would be utilized for players waived pursuant to the Amnesty rule, under which teams with Room under the Cap could submit competing offers to assume some but not all of the player’s remaining contract. If a player’s contract is claimed in this manner, the remaining portion of the player’s salary will continue to be paid by the team that waived him.”

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“Players like Jordan, Bird, Magic, et al took pride in the fact that they could win on their own, without having to bring in a bunch of ringers to do it.” – Blogman

Really? Let me help you out with a little basketball history:

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers

Magic, in his own words, only left Michigan State for the opportunity to play with future Hall of Famer Kareem Abdul Jabaar. All of the players you mention got to play with other top 50 all-time players. In what way did they “win on their own?”

“AT BEST, and I am already stretching, you could find the money to set up 10 teams at 50% salaries (in comparison with the NBA).” – vava

I had similar figures in mind, and hey, it’s not what they were making in the NBA, but at this point I think it’s about going for blood. The NBA is trying to break the union. The appropriate response to that would be for the star players who drive the entire $4b in revenue to bankrupt the NBA by starting their own league of 10 non-diluted teams.

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grandad that team you suggest is pretty good was the worst team in the history of basketball without the queen. with your basketball mind how couod you say that? there were so many hangers on, over the hill and sycophants on those teams that it was too apparent to hiw bad the support had been especially in a league where the formula is to have two to three playees of all star quality that is need to get you to the big dance and win going back to the sixties. no all star has won it by himself as even mj had pippen as a side kick. those were alwul players well beyond their primes all of them.

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Good riddance thugs……………I have joined the fans who say dont let the door hit you in the azz.

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did you forget the goid ole boy system that created the celts grandad? is that any better? again why do you fail to admit riles did this not labron and put his rep on the line to orcgestrate it? queen was his pawn.

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Under the current guidelines, competitive balance is a pipe dream. There have been several superstars who have been limited int heir success because of circumstances beyond their control… mostly due tosome combination of poor salary cap management and/or an owner unable to spend enought to surround that player with the right pieces. KG had maybe one stellar season in minnesota in terms of team success? How about the adored CP3? Ray Allen did what in his pre-Boston days?

I really don;t get why we’re debating the imbalance in the NBA. I don;t get the burden of the system rules. Again, its like if you;re lined up against the owners for whatever reason, then you can’t see anything worthwhile about their proposals. I don’t get that from fans of the Atlanta Hawks. If our best hope for making the Finals is some white knight riding in on his horse with a few billion in his backpack, then we’re in for a long, long ride. Why not at least try and implement some different rules that could balance the playing field without dismembering the working class? Like allowing more financial prudent teams to offer more through a midlevel exemption than those who have money-to-burn.

Lastly, when I was comparing leagues, I was talking about the teams who win it all… not those who simply have good years. leBron has won NOTHING. Green Bay has won. Carmelo ain’t done diddly. Hines Ward has in little ole Pittsburgh. What is it, 9 teams in 30+ years in the NBA? It has probably been 9 different champions in 15 years in the NFL. What’s wrong with trying to move closer to that model? Will someone lose their leg if the attempt fails?

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Here is a link to the reported deal offered by the owners, with the specific “system issues” that attempt to create a more competitive balance by restricting teams with money-to-burn from their continued domination of the league. Sorry, I’m just not feeling the need to call Al Sharpton & Gloria Allred, grab a petition sign and hit the streets when i read this.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/nba%20proposal%2011-11-2011.pdf

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doc

Admittedly,
Nicky Arison son of Heat owner was placed on
Olympic Coaching / Training / Scouting staff
in some capacity.

Yes, I know the story.

Riley a culprit – absotively.
LeBron – a pawn – I think not.

LeBron an Ass Clown with an oversized ego
who has always had everything his way and
thinks that one day he will rule the world……
I’m at least partially right, pick whichever part you like.

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The day I have to learn the definition of “amortization”
to be a basketball enthusiast, will be the day …..
” I take up farming “.

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Here’s a possible solution: If the NBAPA will not accept a hard cap, then let’s reinstate the old “compensation” provisions. That way, when one of the rich teams steals a player, they have to compensate the player’s former team via draft picks, etc.

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I hope all the NBA contracts are now voided. Hawks can recover from overpaying Joe johnson for about $15 million per year…

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Blogman

if the owners make good financial decisions, we let JJ walk rather than overpaying him..

Wrong. The Hawks had 2 other options. 1) Offer JJ 5 years, $100 mil, since the most other teams could offer was 5 years, $96 mil. Or 2) Do a sign and trade.

The Nuggets traded Carmelo to the Knicks for Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors’ 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors’ 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.

After signing Amare, and losing LeBron, the Knicks were interested in JJ and were willing to offer him 5 years, $96 mil (the max they could offer). The Hawks (imo) could have offered JJ to the Knicks in a SNT, and gotten a combination of the players the Nuggets got (obviously, the Hawks would not get the same players Denver got).

But (imo) they could have gotten Eddy Curry’s expiring contract, maybe 2 of the players traded, and a first round pick. I think the Knicks would have jumped at the opportunity to trade for JJ.

Also, the Bulls were interested in JJ after losing out on Wade and LeBron. Hawks could have done a sign and trade with the Bulls.

My point is, the Hawks did not have to let JJ walk.

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Benefits Galore!

“The NBA doesn’t have enough of them. And they have a huge impact on the game on offense and defense.”
-O’Brien-
______________

True talent not withstanding, the super stars also get the caveat benefits of:

Palming
Traveling
Phantom Touch Fouls

Right, O’Brien?

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Flutie Flakes!

Najeh? Does Tebow remind you of an unconventional success story like that of Doug Flutie? All Doug did was win!He even got a corn flakes endorsement after proving himself in the CFL. What was Doug – 5′9″?

Tebow seems to be the equivalent of a “slow white bronco” – he’s so slow – but you can’t catch him for miles or until he pulls over and surrender.

What do you think – Najeh and others? The Broncos doing it with Tims and Tebows!!!

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“But yet the NBA has the biggest disparity. And to Najeh’s point, it all goes back to superstars.”

And another thing is, in the so-called golden age of basketball in the 80s when the Lakers and Celtics superteams dominated the league, parity was if anything even worse than it is now. People like to talk about how the NBA used to be better back then, and how all these superteams are killing the league, but while the Lakers and Celtics were dominating, Philly was going 9-73 and 60% of the league was finishing below .500. The NBA has ALWAYS had disparity. What the Heat and Knicks did this year is nothing new.

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The NBA has always run on a star system for both players and franchises. But just because the Sears catalog once brought in a ton of revenue, it doesn’t justify keeping the Sears catalog in circulation today. Times change. With discretionary income shrinking and technology delivering cheaper forms of entertainment (anyone remember when you needed to buy the entire CD for $15 to get the 2 songs you really wanted… hello iTunes), most legacy entertainment businesses need to at least consider a different plan. I’m not sure that folk will continue to pay to watch their local team play the role of the Washington Generals.

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Predicated!

“My point is, the Hawks did not have to let JJ walk.” -0′Brien-
___________

This is predicated upon the fact that, JJ being an UFA would have agreed to HELP the Hawks. Why would he help the former team in his division to defeat himself?

He may have … He may have Not!

Here’s my point: JJ was in total control, unless the owners of NY & Chicago were in collusion. In other words, what prevents JJ from spurring the Hawks for a lack of complete loyalty?

Am, I making sense? When ypu are an UFA? You owe no one nothing!

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Dmb,

JJ wanted to get paid. So he still could have gotten 6 years, $120 mil from the Knicks if he agreed to a SNT. I doubt he would have walked on the Hawks and signed for 5 years, $96 mil somewhere else.

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AJ,

You are correct in that the the players will still get paid, except with a new CBA, they would have to be willing to play for some of the smaller market teams if they want the huge contracts.

But the players agreed to a lot of the system changes…IF the owners would agree to 51% BRI. But the owners want the players to agree to all the system changes, AND take 50% BRI on top of it(allegedly, some owners want them to take 47% BRI).

I dont understand why they couldnt come to a deal. And for that, I blame the owners and David Stern mostly.

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The O’Brien Trophy!

“Dmb,

JJ wanted to get paid. So he still could have gotten 6 years, $120 mil from the Knicks if he agreed to a SNT. I doubt he would have walked on the Hawks and signed for 5 years, $96 mil somewhere else.” -O’Brien-
_______________

So O’Brien, in retrospect? IF, this year is lost? Would a loss in this year’s salary, have neutralized JJ’s gains monetarily? Or, in retrospect … would it still have been a financiAl gAin to stay with the Hawks? IDK?

Here’s my point: did the Hawks gain, by doing 6 years @ 120M – or does a one year lockout make it a wash versus JJ signing with, say – NY or Chicago? In other words, who is the loser – Hawks or JJ?

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Oops – left out “expire” (”when our contracts expire…”)

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OB, one more thing, Hunter & Fisher met with the 30 team reps on that fateful night when they walked away and decided to disband the union (or whatever the correct term is). Don’t you think that if those 30 team reps were unified in saying that they would accept the deal at 51% with all of the system rules in place as outlined by the owners, that a deal would have likely been done? In that link I shared earlier, one of the BRI options included a ceiling of 51% and a floor of 49%… my guess is that if the 30 reps could guarantee ratification with a floor of 50% and a ceiling of 51%, that we would be blogging about free agent signings right now. I think there could be some validity to the speculation that each side has some internal issues that burden the conclusion of a deal.

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dmb,

If JJ had signed a 5 year max deal (like Amare), then assuming there is no NBA this season, he would have 3 years, $65 mil left on his contract.

But because he signed a 6 year max deal, even if there is no NBA this season, he will still be owed 4 years, $89 mil.

There is always the possibility that the Hawks could trade him before his contract expires, but even then, there is still an extra year to worry about.

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Will one of you NBA experts tell me what these “glandular freaks” are thinking? The players are getting mega dollars for playing a game, but the owners are still the owners. I don’t think Billy Hunter could successfully organize a two car parade.

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* David Boies is the ring leader of the players now.

* Don’t be surprised at the impact MJ has on the owners.

* If it stays in the courts; Feb before a judge hears the players motion.

* Some think Boies will be the rational head that will pull
this back together.

* Player reps are nothing more than guys who lost a vote
and had the job thrust upon them.

* Teams in the 80’s were built not Superglued;
like the collusion-formed ” Heat “.

* Personally, I did not think the 80’s were the Golden Age.
I actually did not enjoy Celtics v Lakers Chmpnshps every year.
“and I was a Big celtic fan” aside from being a Hawk fan.

* 60’s were the Golden Age as far as I’m concerned.

* I actually enjoy the game’s renaissance the past few years,
more than the 80’s.
I must give Stern some credit:
Cleaning up the image, *Euro talent
*(which includes South Am, Africa, Canada, China upon reference)
world influence, TV, and much, much, more.
He has certainly grown the game.
his legacy will bear this out.

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*******************************************

With that proposed trade:

LeBron goes to the;
pinch post, hybrid low post, high post, mid post,
back to the basket, facing, short corner, mid range,
middle of the defense one step to the basket,
nightmare for opposing defenses, best post passer since Walton,
45 a game scoring, triple double for a season averagin’,
rhino, bull, elephant, Championship-a-fixin-to-happen …
whoa – what have I created ?
Wait a minute – I’m not coaching him – nevermind.
,

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Trade Down!

I would not trade Josh for Bosh, (hey, that rhymes).

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slow white bronco? that seems to be a description of oj’s last run to me, dmb.

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The PJ’s!

Is PJ Brown still available? I think his last name was Brown? Anyway, any player of his ilk still around, that we can get?

Someone like a: Xavier McDaniel, Anthony Mason, Otis Thorpe, Bill Lambier, or, or … Any ideas fellas? He doesn’t even have to a center. Can ZaZa still be that tough guy for us, he is still very young – any upside left to him?

Perhaps a better coach should be addressed at this point.

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Well – It’s about Time!
_____________________

NCAA taking up Penn State scandal

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The Associated Press

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — The NCAA will examine whether Penn State broke any rules with its handling of a child sex abuse scandal that has shocked the campus and cost the school’s former president and coach Joe Paterno their jobs.

NCAA president Mark Emmert sent a letter to Penn State president Rod Erickson saying that the governing body for college sports will look at “Penn State’s exercise of institutional control over its intercollegiate athletics programs” in the case of Jerry Sandusky, the former defensive coordinator accused of 40 counts of child sex abuse.

⁠

FILE – In this Oct. 24, 2011, file photo, NCAA president Mark Emmert speaks about policy changes being considered by the NCAA during the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics meeting in Washington. Penn State released a letter Friday, Nov. 18, 2011, from NCAA president Mark Emmert to Penn State president Rod Erickson saying that the governing body for college sports will examine “Penn State’s exercise of institutional control over its intercollegiate athletics programs” in the case of Jerry Sandusky, the former defensive coordinator for the NCAA college football team accused of serial child sex abuse. (AP Photo/Manuel Balce Ceneta, File)

“We have to examine those facts and make a thoughtful determination of what is covered by our bylaws and what is not,” Emmert told The Associated Press on Friday.

Emmert said the case is not yet a formal investigation, though the inquiry could lead to that. NCAA investigators have not yet been on Penn State’s campus. Emmert has asked the university to respond by Dec. 16 to several questions.

If the NCAA decides to move ahead from there, the process could take an additional six to 10 months.

“Everyone that works inside a university, a coach, an administrator, a faculty member is first an educator and mentor,” Emmert said. “When you’re in that position you have a responsibility to provide leadership and maintain a high ethical standard.”



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ESPN confirms it: Matt Ryan isn’t the King of the Deep (Pass)

Sandusky is accused of abusing eight boys, some on campus, over 15 years. Among the charges is an alleged assault in 2002 that was not brought to the attention of police, according to a grand jury report, even though top officials at Penn State knew there was an accusation of inappropriate behavior.

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The resulting scandal has tarnished the image of a once squeaky-clean football program that has prided itself on the slogan “Success with Honor.”

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“It will be important for Penn State to cooperate fully and provide any assistance possible to the NCAA,” Erickson said in a statement. “The university’s and NCAA’s interests are perfectly aligned in identifying what went wrong and how to prevent anything similar from happening again.”



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Schultz and Curley each are charged with lying to the grand jury and failure to report to police. They maintain their innocence, as does Sandusky.

In addition to the ongoing criminal investigation of Sandusky, Penn State has started its own, internal review and the U.S. Department of Education is examining whether the school failed to report incidents of sexual abuse on campus, as required by federal law.

Soon after Penn State announced that the NCAA was getting involved in the case, Scott Paterno, the ex-coach’s son, said his father has been diagnosed with a treatable form of lung cancer. The younger Paterno said his father is expected to make a full recovery.

Emmert, in his letter, said the allegations in the case are testing “not only the integrity of the university, but that of intercollegiate athletics as a whole and the NCAA member institutions that conduct college sports.”

The NCAA in the letter asked Penn State to respond to various questions, including:

— How did Penn State exercise “institutional control over the issues identified in and related” to the grand jury report? Did the school have procedures in place that were, or were not, followed?

— The NCAA also wants to know if “each of the alleged persons to have been involved or have notice of the issues identified in and related” to the grand jury report behaved according to the school’s policies on honesty and ethical conduct.

— The NCAA also asked Penn State to explain its policies and procedures that are “in place to monitor, prevent and detect the issues identified in and related to the Grand Jury Report.”

Paterno, Division I’s winningest coach with 409 victories, was fired by university trustees Nov. 9, the same night then-president Graham Spanier also left his job under pressure. School leaders faced mounting criticism that more should have done to prevent the alleged abuse.

Emmert in his letter cited an NCAA bylaw that says coaches or athletic staffers must “do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts. Their own moral values must be so certain and positive that those younger … will be influenced by a fine example. Much more is expected of them than of the less critically placed citizen.”

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AP Sports Writer Mike Marot in Indianapolis contributed to this story.

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November 18, 2011 07:21 PM EST

Copyright 2011, The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

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Leader!

“@Teague0 says he still plans to enroll at Wake Forest spring semester. Plans to take 4 classes apply to Comm degree” – MC Tweet -
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Just be smarter than Marvin and work on your game too! LOL! Be a Leader not a Reader.

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A good read:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7250994/business-vs-personal

(Lock out)

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gdad it is about image, pritecting the brand, pr. see article i posted earlier about hoe much money the ncaa handles each year and their profits?

as an aside an intersting read from the nytimes on the nfl:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/20/sports/football/kris-jenkinss-view-of-life-in-the-nfl-trenches.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha27

not a dog fan but congrats. sure wish tech woukd catch them looking ahead to the sec game. they can win the sec just lose to the bees. big upheaval this week. i really thought okie state might be in a championshp game. sooners clemson and beavers go down. uga top ten now. good for the state.

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yhat last paragraph sums up what i have said all along. the prob is the owners.

gdad it is not about queen and the summer of 10 because the pkayers have been expwcting this and dont want to take all the lumps for dividing between the big market guys and small. too easu for the owners that way.

i dont like queen any more rhan you do but to suggest him as the fall guy and yhe poster boy for all wrong in the nba misses the egregious ownership that will take from whoever they can but wont share a dime between themselves.

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