Atlanta Hawks: Labor fight heads to courtroom as season in jeopardy
(3:40 p.m. update: David Stern speaks, Billy Hunter says season probably lost.)
NBA players got David Stern’s memo and dragged it to the trash bin.
Not only did the NBPA not send the owners’ latest offer to a vote of the full membership, the executive committee and the 30 player reps unanimously rejected the proposal and filed a “disclaimer of interest” that renounces the union’s interest in representing players in bargaining with the league. Billy Hunter said the next stop is a federal courtroom, where individual players will file antitrust suits against owners.
At a press conference following the union meeting, Hunter said “the collective bargaining process has completely broken down.” Later on NBA TV Hunter said: “It’s a high probability rather than possibility” that the 2011-12 season is lost.
Later on SportsCenter, Stern blasted union leadership for what he called a “sham” strategy, said the move is “really irresponsible given the timing of it” and predicted a “nuclear winter of the NBA.”
“It’s OK to do when you haven’t lost a game, but to do it now, the union is ratcheting it up to, I guess, see if they can scare the NBA owners into something,” Stern said. “That’s not happening. What they’ve done is destroy incredible value that otherwise would have gone to union membership.”
It seems some players also are questioning why the union waited until now to take such a drastic step, especially since Hunter and Derk Fisher have said all along that they didn’t think owners would ever present a deal players would accept. Deron Williams went to Twitter to vent on the union’s strategy:
“This is why I said we should have done this in July bc at least the process would have been underway… even over! Now possibly #NOSEASON”
Since Stern already had already said the owners are done negotiating–and noted today that there now is no union with which to negotiate–this means the season is in jeopardy as the two sides fight it out in court. Once players file the suit, we will see if owners follow through with Stern’s threat to void all existing contracts.
Gabriel A. Feldman, the director of the Tulane Sports Law Program, offered a good primer on the legal ramifications of the union’s move:
Assuming the mere threat of decertification/litigation is not enough to move the owners, the NBPA could (while the players are waiting for the decertification election) disclaim interest in representing the players. Disclaimer would permit the players to file their antitrust suit immediately. The NBA owners would argue that any such lawsuit must be heard in NY, so the players could either file in NY (unlikely) or file in another jurisdiction and engage in a legal battle to allow them to choose where the case is heard (more likely).
Stern has said all along that disclaimer/decertification is a losing strategy for players, citing the suit lost by NFL players last summer when they went the disclaimer route. On SportsCenter today he called the union’s tactic a “magical trick” that won’t succeed.
(The union has retained litigator David Boies, who represented the NFL in that case. Can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em?)
But Feldman explains why the NFL case doesn’t necessarily mean NBA players will lose in court:
The ruling in Brady [vs. NFL] obviously favors the NBA owners, but the NBA players may still have success in court for at least a few reasons. First, only courts within the Eighth Circuit are bound by Brady, and it is a virtual certainty that any antitrust suit brought by the NBA players would not be filed in a court within the Eighth Circuit (the NBA filed its preemptory legal action in NY, and the players would likely file their suit in an employee-friendly jurisdiction like California).
Second, let’s be clear as to what the Eight Circuit decided in the Brady case. The NFL players argued that the NFL lockout was illegal and asked for 2 things–an injunction and damages. The district court preliminarily concluded that the lockout was illegal and granted the injunction. The Eighth Circuit reversed, narrowly holding that the Norris-LaGuardia Act prevents federal courts from enjoining lockouts. The court did not conclude that the lockout was illegal and did not conclude that the players were not entitled to bring their antitrust claim. So, even if a court was bound by Brady, it could still determine that the players are able to bring a post-dissolution antitrust suit challenging the lockout, and that the lockout was illegal. In other words, Brady does not prevent the NBA players from dissolving their union and bringing a successful antitrust suit for three-times damages.
Third, decertification (as opposed to disclaimer) may give the NBA players a more powerful argument in court. In Brady, the NFL argued that the NFLPA’s disclaimer of interest was a sham, in part, because it “lack[ed] the formality of decertification” and was “literally a paper-thin statement, issued unilaterally by a union, that may readily be overturned.” The formality of the decertification process could thus weigh in the NBA players’ favor.
Sorry to bog down my blog people with a bunch of legalese but, sadly, that’s where we are. I will update here after Stern speaks.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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315 comments Add your comment
collegeballfan
November 15th, 2011
6:58 pm
Why don’t the players simply form their own league owned by the players? Put their money where their mouth is?
Najeh Davenpoop
November 15th, 2011
8:53 pm
“For example, the pnealty for going into luxury tax becomes very expensive starting in year 3. I think This is an attempt to reel in the big spenders (Lakers, Knicks, Heat, Celtics etc).”
True. But as the players have said throughout this process, the real result of such a provision will just be to limit player movement. Even a 10-to-1 luxury tax is not going to completely stop big market teams from spending over the cap. And even if it did, high profile players would still leave for big markets once their rookie contracts got over. As far as competitive balance is concerned, luxury tax penalties, hard caps, strengthening Bird rights, etc. accomplish very little.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 15th, 2011
8:57 pm
Put it this way: even if the Heat had to fill the rest of their roster with minimum salary players due to a hard cap or luxury tax penalties, if LeBron and Bosh really wanted to join Wade in Miami, they would still do it. And there would still be plenty of veterans willing to take minimum salaries to play with them. And moreover, that team would still be one of the best teams in the league. There is nothing the NBA can do to stop that aside from eliminating free agency or contraction.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 15th, 2011
8:57 pm
Put it this way: even if the Heat had to fill the rest of their roster with minimum salary players due to a hard cap or luxury tax penalties, if LeBron and Bosh really wanted to join Wade in Miami, they would still do it. And there would still be plenty of veterans willing to take minimum salaries to play with them. And moreover, that team would still be one of the best teams in the league. There is nothing the NBA can do to stop that aside from eliminating free agency or contraction.
doc
November 15th, 2011
9:38 pm
mc, what is going on, i have lost about 6 posts today?
Astro Joe
November 15th, 2011
10:19 pm
Sorry guys, you can;t have it both ways. You can;t claim tha ownership has no role in establishing a winning culture while highlighting the repeated failures of the ASG. Likewise, ignoring the fact that only a few franchises have won the gold over the past 35 years also suggests the importance of ownership. Dr. Buss was there in the days of Magic & Kareem, the days of Shaq & Kobe and now with Kobe & Pau. He was the guy who paid the big bucks oto guys name Riley and Phil. Hashe made a fortune in the process? Absolutely but I kind of doubt that his players feel like he has exploited them .
I completely disagree that owners are simply trying to make more money in this battle. I do think that they are looking for competitive balance. If you had $300M to invest, chances are you could find a better investment than an NBA franchise. But you may not find one that allows you to compete for a tangible prize while enjoying all the trappings of owning a professional team.
If you’re anti-ownership now, I wonder if you will feel differently if some big willie purchases the Hawks in the next year or so.
brigadierjerry
November 15th, 2011
10:28 pm
Over priced admission. Over priced concession. Over paid players. Hand crafted stars and a floating rule system that is not even consistent game to game.
Both sides rob the people who fund the system. Yet like everything else, people feel the need to pick a side, log onto this site, and fight back and forth. Even if there was no lock out, people would pick one player, and argue against the other. And this is within a team.
There is a pride factor here. The media makes everything public fueling the pride factor. If it wasnt public knowledge through hourly updates, the people would never know who is asking for what. And who if being forced to make the most compromise. If the media does not make it a public competition, maybe these guys wont feel so much pressure.
Then you got these greedy agents in the back ground whispering in the players ears. I have a suggestion for these players in regards to these agents. There is very little effort put into negotiating these contracts. Most of the time its market value based on what the other guy got, and what you got last time. Cut the percentage you give these agents for getting you a contract you could probably get on your own. There is more money for you. And increase the percentage of the cut they get for getting you financial opportunities off the court. Motivate them to search and get creative on way to increase your earning potential off the court. More money for both of you.
These owners should invest a little more money in scouting and development of their current players. Hold their staffs to a higher standard to maximize their investments. Players are not coming in developed. They need to be taught how to play the game, and how to carry themselves to represent your business. As the owner of the business its your responsibility. Stop drafting 19 year old kids and giving them the keys to your business. Draft that 19 year old, and work with the young man. What do you expect when you allow a young man into your company, and let him live freely? What do you expect when you skimp on staff to find and mold these players? When the player places himself above your business, because you do not have, and never had the proper personnel and a plan, dont cry about losing. Thats on you.
ANd the fans of todays game are also not holding the teams and players they pay to see to a high enough standard. We got way too many stars with no accolades to back it up other than a entertaining youtube highlight video. Fans should not be looking at this lockout, and making a competition out of it. We pay these owners. They fought for months over our money. And we sit here and cheer them on as they all refuse to provide us with the service we pay for. There is no fear of consequence. The more support they receive, the harder they will fight for what they want. In the end you dont get what you want. Why should a fan care about a income split? We should care not about how they split our money, but about how much we are paying for, and what we are seeing. These guys argue about money. When this is all over with, what trickles down to the fans? If the owners get more of a split do we get a break on costs? Of course not. If the players get what they want, will it motivate them to work harder for our dollars? I would guess they are not thinking about that.
And lastly. Stop supporting these people on twitter. Stop eating up some of the reporters slop (I am not talking about you MC) Stop passing these rumors along. Stop paying attention to them. Most of it is BS. You put money in they pocket too. You motivate them to make things up. And what they are doing is prying into sensitive negotiations. Compromising them by exposing their positions, offers and opinions. Making it even more difficult to get a deal done. Social media has changed our society. But somethings should remain off limits. A bargaining session worth billions of dollars should not be tampered with at all by anyone outside of the room. These pathetic people are huddled around outside hugging their handhelds reporting when and speculating on what they eat. Getting into fights. Reporting getting kicked out. Reporting their interpretations of facial expressions. Or what some nobody who claims to know someone who heard something had to say. And why do they keep doing it? Because you keep clicking it, reading it and passing it along.
At this point everyone holds a equal portion of the blame. Players, owners, agents, media, fans. Everyone. Joined hands in a circle reluctantly square dancing around a table with a piece of paper on it we all want signed.
Peter
November 15th, 2011
10:34 pm
There is no doubt in my mind the Atlanta Spirit is part of the problem……the JJ contract is a sham, and the NBA wants that DUMB stuff stopped.
The only problem is, they allowed the idiots to buy the team.
Tn Hawk
November 15th, 2011
10:55 pm
Does anyone else think Stern is blowing this? His arguing for the owners and strong demands are just making the problem worse, in my opinion.
cp
November 15th, 2011
11:25 pm
I’m forced to watch more college basketball and I had forgot just how sloppy it could be at times. This Kentucky vs Kansas game has seen a bunch of turnovers. Maybe these kids are just a little nervous, I dont know. . Teague’s little brother is really struggling. Dude is turning the ball over left and right and just doesn’t seem comfortable out there. That Davis kid is going to be a problem once he bulks up.
Buddy G
November 16th, 2011
1:44 am
“If LeBron and Bosh really wanted to join Wade in Miami, they would still do it.” – Najeh
Well, they did do it. There was no consideration of luxury tax payments in MIA. They slashed salary and the players took sub-max deals to play together. This has the owners scared spitless. They assumed that nobody would take less than the max and that player greed would contain player movement. Wrong.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 16th, 2011
1:52 am
“If you’re anti-ownership now, I wonder if you will feel differently if some big willie purchases the Hawks in the next year or so.”
No, I won’t. The reason I am pro-player is because they are both the labor and the product. They do the work, they push their bodies to the limit, and they create the product that we pay to see. Sure, owners are important to an extent in assembling teams, but not to the extent where they deserve 50% or more of the overall pie. They are not sitting in boardrooms creating grand visions of revolutionary products to provide their consumer base and change the world. Jerry Buss is not Steve Jobs or Henry Ford. Mickey Arison didn’t design LeBron James from scratch. They are rich people who have gotten rich in other enterprises, and are now doing something that any rich guy can do — hire smart people and let them spend their money.
And maybe more important than anything to the success of Jerry Buss or any other owner is simply geographical location. Kobe would have been great whether he played in LA, Charlotte, or anywhere else. Would Jerry Buss have assembled star-studded teams if he owned his team in Indiana? Probably not. I am reluctant to give much credit at all to owners who more than anything else have just sat back and benefited from a) their team’s geographical location and b) David Stern’s efforts to promote and grow the league.
northcyde
November 16th, 2011
7:25 am
I am very seldom in 100% agreement of what Najeh says at times, but I am on this lockout issue. In 4 years, people are still going to be wondering how the large market teams are still acquiring talent, while badly run small market teams are still losing out.
Najeh is explaining this perfectly.
vava74
November 16th, 2011
7:47 am
Najeh,
I usually agree with you on a lot of stuff, but you are completely wrong about the owners and the NBA.
A substantial chunk of the NBA players completely miss manage their moneys and that proves their inability to financially maximise their talents.
The NBA, even with the bone head owners is an extremely complex organization that has been successful for long.
That does not mean that I am siding with the owners, for instance, I don’t think they have been losing any money on this.
Their accountancy techniques allow them to introduce on their yearly accounts the depreciation of the players’ value and its replacement cost as if they were equipment AND the reported losses off-set profits within their own groups or personal finances.
There are obviously some owners who have not even made their money but merely inherited it, however, there is also a substantial part that built their fortunes so, to disregard the owners and the NBA’s role in presenting you the product that you enjoy watching is a huge miss conception.
Do you enjoy watching the pro-am leagues? Because that is what you would be getting if players were running the show.
The players are the labor but the product is much more than that. They are the most important part of the product, but the packaging that makes it valuable is beyond the players’ control.
vava74
November 16th, 2011
8:08 am
And I also think you are wrong about the measures being able to balance at least some the competitive balance.
I don’t think you can get enough veterans on board for the veterans’ minimum to pair with Lebron, Wade and Bosh just for the sake of winning and fill up a roster. I really don’t.
Only guys at the back end of their careers will consider that since younger cats want to make their money and at the speed that they spend it, the veteran’s minimum after taxes is virtually nothing for these guys.
Juwan Howard, Bibby, Dampier… that’s the profile you will get more frequently and frankly, most of these guys will get you nowhere. NOWHERE.
Yes, big markets will continue to be big markets, but if the tax penalties get so high on those franchises, the distribution of the resulting cash to the other smaller market franchises may allow these to enter luxury tax territory as well without risking huges losses.
The latest proposal by NBA was not perfect, by all means, but it was not the total disaster that the players are claiming to be.
The fact is that the previous CBA was too much “pro-player” and left too much leeway for big spenders overspend.
The fact is that peopla behave similarly everywhere, anywhere: the same criticism that is put on the table on Owners not spending wisely and placing themselves in bad financial position is the same that can be made to so many players on their own financial miss management that it would be impossible to name them all here.
You need to create rules that keep people under control, owners and players*.
*I would, for instance, create an even more robust mandatory pension scheme which would withhold up to 25% of the players’ salary, with the differential between the current withholding levels to be repaid back to the player over the 15 years following the end of their careers (to add up to their normal pension which runs until they are 62).
vava74
November 16th, 2011
8:13 am
IMO, if the players wanted to go down the route they went now, they should have done it sooner and not wait for a time when the probability of them losing money that they will never retrieve increased every day.
vava74
November 16th, 2011
8:20 am
Now, this is an idea:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7058281/we-need-renegade-basketball-league
Sideline Dude
November 16th, 2011
9:24 am
Why doesn’t the NBA just go away? Nothing but of overpaid thugs running around in too long shorts.
ant banks
November 16th, 2011
10:01 am
QUESTIONS:
1. If the season is canceled, what happens with the NBA draft in June?
2. What happens to the years left on players contracts? Will we owe JJ one less year or will the years left on contracts pick up where it left off.
3. Can the NBA use “scab” replacement players?
Najeh Davenpoop
November 16th, 2011
10:20 am
“A substantial chunk of the NBA players completely miss manage their moneys and that proves their inability to financially maximise their talents.”
…which proves that if the players form their own league, that substantial chunk of players shouldn’t be in charge of managing money. It doesn’t prove, however, that the players are incapable of hiring promoters and managers to organize the league for them in essentially the same way owners do now, or even necessarily that the more intelligent players in the league couldn’t figure out ways to do so on their own. You are right that packaging the product is important. But packaging the product is primarily David Stern’s responsibility, not the owners’ responsibility. If the players were to start their own league, what’s stopping them from hiring their own David Stern — one who works for them, rather than for a group of owners — to grow and promote the league?
“The NBA, even with the bone head owners is an extremely complex organization that has been successful for long.”
…due primarily to the vision of the commissioners the league has had. I disagree frequently with David Stern but there is no denying that he played a pivotal role in growing the league’s popularity. He, however, is not an owner. He just happens to work for them and so is on their side in this labor dispute.
“Do you enjoy watching the pro-am leagues? Because that is what you would be getting if players were running the show.”
The pro-am leagues are exhibition games, and both the players and fans know it. There is nothing at stake and no coaches from my understanding. The reason the quality of play in the NBA is more competitive is because players value what is at stake in the NBA (the NBA championship) more than they do in the exhibition games. If they would similarly value winning the championship in a league they created, the quality of play there would be just as high.
“I don’t think you can get enough veterans on board for the veterans’ minimum to pair with Lebron, Wade and Bosh just for the sake of winning and fill up a roster. I really don’t.”
Miami wouldn’t be a taxpaying team this year under the previous CBA. I don’t remember their team salary last year but I don’t think they were over the tax threshold, or if they were it wasn’t by much. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Mike Bibby, Mario Chalmers, and Eddie House were minimum salary veterans last year and played significant minutes for them. Jerry Stackhouse was also a minimum salary veteran, although he didn’t play. The owners’ proposals have all revolved around making the luxury tax threshold essentially a hard cap above which teams would be strongly discouraged to spend; if such a system existed last year, it would have had no effect on Miami’s ability to assemble that team, based on how much they actually spent.
On top of that, the owners want a multi-year amnesty provision. Where do you think all these amnestied players are going to go once they are released by their current teams? They will all create a beeline to Miami, LA, Boston, New York, etc. and gladly take minimum salaries to do so as their previous team continues to pay them what they are owed.
“Juwan Howard, Bibby, Dampier… that’s the profile you will get more frequently and frankly, most of these guys will get you nowhere. NOWHERE.”
It got them to the NBA Finals, which is farther than most small market teams will ever go, under this or any other system.
“Yes, big markets will continue to be big markets, but if the tax penalties get so high on those franchises, the distribution of the resulting cash to the other smaller market franchises may allow these to enter luxury tax territory as well without risking huges losses.”
This is the heart of the problem though. If the tax penalties are meant to discourage big markets from spending over the tax threshold, then there won’t be enough cash to distribute to the other small markets to make a significant difference. And if the big market teams spend well over the tax threshold anyway, there may be enough money to go to small markets, but the goal of capping the big market teams’ spending hasn’t been accomplished.
And more importantly, what is stopping a small market team from sticking these subsidies in their pocket and continuing to trot out below average teams? The Cincinnati Bengals and Florida Marlins have been doing this for years in the NFL and MLB. What’s stopping some sleazeball like Donald Sterling from doing the exact same thing?
Revenue sharing can’t be accomplished via the luxury tax in a meaningful way that will improve competitive balance. If you make the cap penalty too high, the amount of money the NBA collects from the luxury tax will be too minimal to make a difference. If you make the cap penalty too low, the system essentially stays as it is now. Revenue sharing has to be something the owners come up with independently. When the Lakers make $150 million a year just off their TV deal while a team like Memphis makes $500,000 a game, there is no amount of reaching into the players’ pockets that will rectify that competitive imbalance.
“The fact is that peopla behave similarly everywhere, anywhere: the same criticism that is put on the table on Owners not spending wisely and placing themselves in bad financial position is the same that can be made to so many players on their own financial miss management that it would be impossible to name them all here”
Yes, and those who mismanage their own finances should bear the responsibility for it. The owners don’t deserve a bailout from the players any more than Wall Street and GM deserve a bailout from the taxpayers.
To be clear, I am not necessarily saying a player-run league would work. I am just saying that the owners’ contribution to “packaging” the product is minimal, and the owners are a lot more replaceable than the players are. The credit for packaging the product lies primarily in David Stern’s hands, and saying the owners deserve a larger piece of the pie for packaging the product is giving credit to the wrong people. I mean really, what exactly does the DASG do to promote the Hawks that anyone on this blog couldn’t do better?
drmaryb .[*_*].
November 16th, 2011
10:27 am
The NBA Cares?
If, the NBA really cared? Then why don’t they take the luxury tax collected and re-gift it to the small market teams that are supposedly losing money.
Why is when capitalistic companies that are deemed too big to fail, readily scream for bail outs. Conversely, when the hard working middle class fall on hard times and collect unemployment insurance, (which is what insurance is for)?
The privileged few call them welfare recipients, lazy, poor, stupid, undeserving, a burden to society and the programs that fund them: socialist-ic?
______________
Class Warfare is the mantra of the day it seems.
Carpe’ Diem.
brigadierjerry
November 16th, 2011
10:39 am
i believe draft still happens and yes one year left on jj contract. also canthave scabs unless strike or all contracts voided
brigadierjerry
November 16th, 2011
10:47 am
question for hawks fans do u think hawk fans would rather have a memphis type of team as far as the type of star players or the okc type of team as far as the type of stars go and which type of team do u think would have more box office success and put more fans in the seats in philips arena even if the postseason results were gonn be the same for either team saying conference finals or better for a 3 year window? i am curios and have a follow up question
MsDee
November 16th, 2011
10:53 am
I TOTALLY agree with Vava74 on ALL his points!!
ant banks
November 16th, 2011
10:57 am
brigadier jerry,
WHICH TEAM, would get the first pick in the 2012 draft, since technically, there was no “worse” record, if the season is canceled…
ant banks
November 16th, 2011
11:02 am
i want the league to “fix” the system to where more teams can vie for a championship. there are about 12 teams that don’t have an effin’ shot this year, if there were games bein’ played:
kings, warriors, clippers, bucks, hawks, timberwolves, bobcats…to name a few. make it so that more teams can compete like the nfl
Jorge Cuartas
November 16th, 2011
11:04 am
As a season ticket holder, and obvious basketball fan I’ve tried to stay informed on this mess. I recently attended a Disney event at the arena and spoke to an usher who said that the entire staff there is struggling as a result of the lockout. No Thrashers, and no Hawks means zero work for these people. I hate seeing things drag on, but I hate the collateral damage even more. Both sides need to consider that it’s not the Millionaires on either end taking the brunt of the damage, but the blue collar workers that are now unemployed.
WHO CARES !!!!!
November 16th, 2011
11:18 am
WHO GIVES A CRAP ABOUT THIS LEAGUE OR TEAM ??? TOTAL WASTE HAVING THEM IN THIS SORRY SPORTS TOWN !!
I HOPE THEY MOVE TO BILLINGS,MONTANA, I AM HAPPY TO SAY I HAVE NEVER SPENT A DIME ON THIS CRAP TEAM OR GAME !!!
GO AWAY hawks GO AWAY !!!!!
vava74
November 16th, 2011
11:43 am
Najeh,
You are forgetting that the owners have to come up with state of the art venues and fund its occupation and operation, as well as setting up training facilities, planes, hotels, etc.
Owners do have an influence in the packaging since they have to set up the daily logistics for it to happen.
Just to secure 42 dates in a venue like Philips Arena you need to come up with either $$ on the table or guarantees that these $$ will be there even if the 42 nights end up filled with empty seats.
NBA franchises are big big businesses and very expensive and complex to run:
You have 60 million payrolls, plus millions in planes, hotels and daily expenses with food and player pampering.
Players even get daily pocket cash (100$) on top of their wages as if they were pampered kids!!!!
As for MIA reaching the finals with that collection of cadavers, I can give you the opposite examples which show you situations which would become rarer like for instance CLE and ORL reaching the Finals with just one star player surrounded with role players (but ORL had a high payroll, I know).
I simply refuse to believe that MIA’s set up will ever be successful but even so I prefer that the league tries to prevent that type of situation.
Everything you can do to give each franchise a star player or someone who at least can be perceived as one is good in comparison with what CLE and TOR had last year.
brigadierjerry
November 16th, 2011
12:52 pm
@ who cares,
u mad?
brigadierjerry
November 16th, 2011
1:07 pm
vava74 good point u can make the argument the hawks are similar to a cleveland had with lebron although smith and horford are good players
brigadierjerry
November 16th, 2011
1:07 pm
Enter your comments here
drmaryb .[*_*].
November 16th, 2011
1:09 pm
Right – A – Wrong!
“i want the league to “fix” the system to where more teams can vie for a championship. there are about 12 teams that don’t have an effin’ shot this year, if there were games bein’ played:
kings, warriors, clippers, bucks, hawks, timberwolves, bobcats…to name a few. make it so that more teams can compete like the nfl” – ant banks-
___________________
Great thoughts here. What IF, the NBA contracts were non-guaranteed, with performance based triggers & signing bonuses?
This willow for wrongs-righted, address fake injuries, drive performance, accelerate player movement to smaller markets and with a hard cap, (no luxury tax clauses) but penalties for going over, (like a loss of picks in higher rounds, i.e. 5th – 7th) you would have some real parity in the league.
Sounds a little like The NFL – hugh?
drmaryb .[*_*].
November 16th, 2011
1:36 pm
Shut Up!
Looks like Franco Harris should have taken my advice and just “shut-up” re: his siding with Joe Pa just one day after the damn broke for Joe. He ridiculed the school for the firing.
Well, today’s Breaking Newz : Franco Harris was fired. Lawd knows he needed his job, he’s been outa’ the league what? 20 years now?
So sad … Too bad.
Skank-Dusky has ruined Soooo many lives on and off the field in addition to what he did to those poor, little, defenseless and indigent kids.
drmaryb .[*_*].
November 16th, 2011
1:45 pm
Shout Out!
To Najeh for being his usual brilliant self!
BTW Najeh, any new analaphors I can steal from you
to depict the 8 caricatures, who are still occupying the ASKG executive offices? LOL!
In other news:
_____________
Mike Vick has two broken ribs … Ouch! Sit him down next week. No sense in puncturing his lungs, let’s see what Vince Young can do to help out.
drmaryb .[*_*].
November 16th, 2011
2:17 pm
R U Kidding Me?
Joe Pa signed the house deed to his wife for a $1.00
transfer fee on June 2, 1997. Here’s my point:
He didn’t sign the papers until June 23, 2011!
___________
Hmmmm … What a conspiracy, the sh!t hit the fan in 1997, (locker room shenanigans) and, the stench blew back when? Around, June 2011. Whoa Nellie, did Joe Pa see this coming back to haunt him? Don’t wanna’ lose the house in a Skank-Dusky related law suit, yeah …. That sounds about right – perfect timing.
What a bunch of losers in PA. Cover up city!!!!
dap01
November 16th, 2011
4:04 pm
Greedy players, greedy owners. Fans are screwed!
dap01
November 16th, 2011
4:05 pm
The fans pay for everything. I hope the players and the owners don’t forget the fans.
dap01
November 16th, 2011
4:07 pm
Hire replacement players and start over.
You know....
November 16th, 2011
4:13 pm
This would be the perfect time for ten billionaires to get together and start a rogue league. Think about the concentration of talent on only ten teams. Tell me they wouldn’t sell out arenas. Tell me TV wouldn’t get involved with big $$$. Tell me that they couldn’t do away with the NBA altogether.
drmaryb .[*_*].
November 16th, 2011
4:19 pm
1st Amendment Right!
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Franco Harris fired by casino for supporting Joe Paterno

By Romain Blanquart, Detroit Free Press
Franco Harris played for Penn State and Joe Paterno from 1969-71.
By Erick Smith, USA TODAY
Updated: 2011-11-16 12:17 PM
Franco Harris’ support of his former Penn State coach Joe Paterno has caused him to lose a job.
Harris was hired last month by the Meadows Race Track and Casino along with former Pittsburgh Steelers teammate Rocky Bleier to “assist the entertainment facility with various outreach activities, charitable events and public appearances.”
The group announced Tuesday Harris had been fired for his public comments.
“In light of the recent developments with Franco Harris regarding Joe Paterno’s dismissal, Franco and The Meadows have mutually decided to put their business relationship on hold at this time, while these matters are looked into further,” a release said.
Harris played for Paterno from 1969-71 before a Hall of Fame career with the Steelers and Seattle Seahawks.
Last week, he questioned the school’s decision to fire Paterno amid a sex abuse scandal involving former coach Jerry Sandusky. Paterno has been criticized for failure to be more aggressive in reporting Sandusky’s alleged crimes.
“I feel that the board made a bad decision in letting Joe Paterno go,” Harris said. “I’m very disappointed in their decision. I thought they showed no courage, not to back someone who really needed it at the time. They were saying the football program under Joe was at fault.”
MORE: Follow Erick Smith on Twitter
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Freedom of Speech is a right. Unfortunately, exercising your rights has consequences and can get you fired.
Until all the facts are understood, I guess we should keep our opinions and words to ourselves?
Personally, I don’t think Franco Harris should have lost his job though. He is a HOF inductee, I think? He definitely was treated too harshly, IMHO. What do you fellas think?
Buddy Grizzard
November 16th, 2011
4:47 pm
“In 4 years, people are still going to be wondering how the large market teams are still acquiring talent, while badly run small market teams are still losing out.” – northcyde
Why would we wonder? When the player’s split of BRI is being significantly reduced, the ability to make money outside basketball i.e. through endorsements becomes an even bigger factor. See Dwight Howard. You’re never going to have the income potential in Minneapolis that you will have in NY or LA.
ant banks
November 16th, 2011
5:02 pm
dr. mary b…,
franco harris’ view differ wildly from his employer, so he got the axe. if i had a philosophical difference with my employer, i would keep my mouth shut. the whole nation, outside of pa., is against joe pa’s inactivity in reporting the abuse of a child by a coach who was on his staff, while using the school’s facilities to do it. FRANCO WAS AN EFFIN’ IDIOT TO SIDE WITH JOE PA, PUBLICALLY.
DID YOU READ BARRY SWITZER’S OPINIONS? VERY SCATHING REMARKS!! I HAVE FOUND A NEW LEVEL OF RESPECT FOR BARRY AFTER HIS COMMENTS
b-griz
November 16th, 2011
5:02 pm
“Which type of team do u think would have more box office success..” – brigadierjerry
Without question OKC. The NBA is a star-driven league and Durant will compete head-to-head with LeBron for the next 10 years for the title of biggest star in the league. Memphis is a bit like the Detroit championship teams… alot of good players but no superstar. Not saying if we had Memphis’ roster the city wouldn’t support it, but if we had Durant here it would be better than the Nique era.
ant banks
November 16th, 2011
5:06 pm
@dr mary b,
franco was the face of that company. if he makes those public sentiments regarding a man who is at the epicenter of a child molestation case and the casino does nothin’…does the casino support molesters? by cuttin’ ties with franco, the casino is unequivocally stating that they don’t support anyone failing to report child abuse…
Buddy G
November 16th, 2011
5:07 pm
“You are forgetting that the owners have to come up with state of the art venues and fund its occupation and operation…” – vava
Ok hold up, that’s where you lost me. You do realize that the owners only put up a fraction of the cost for new arena construction, right? The vast majority of that money comes from public subsidies. Taxpayers are paying billions for these arenas which directly effects the resale of the franchise, which goes directly into the owners’ pockets. It’s like these are banks we bailed out and now they refuse to provide service to the public.
doc
November 16th, 2011
5:37 pm
buddy some good points to show inequities will get worse and small franchises and cities get it worse. the small cities are still exected to provide venues that equal the big boys or the club leaves town ie seattle come sacramento. the club gets what it wants. also the jettison rule will only fortify or work well for the big s
vava74
November 16th, 2011
5:56 pm
buddy g,
The pay the lease. Never said that they built them.
Chack the average lease costs and come back to the table.
ASG is a good example:
http://www.examiner.com/atlanta-thrashers-in-atlanta/analysis-spirit-doesn-t-need-to-keep-thrashers-here-to-fulfill-bond-obligations
Read and come back.
Worldwide Clyde
November 16th, 2011
6:35 pm
*yawn* *yawn* *yawn*
To get my mind off this NBA stuff I’m headed to Rio tomorrow.
FIRE SUND
Peter
November 16th, 2011
6:41 pm
The owners do have to pay for the venues……Do you folks know this ?
They are marketing the venues on a year round basis, not just during the season.
They are in charge of the concerts, the dirt bike races the monster truck events, the rodeo, and what ever the venue is used for when they are not trying to fill the seats for the home game.
If they don’t market the venue correctly they are in trouble.