Atlanta Hawks: ‘It will get worse from there’ Update: Players, owners to meet
(Update 1:20 a.m. Thursday: No deal was reached. The sides are set to meet at noon Thursday. David Stern said “nothing was worked out today” but that owners would not revert to their “reset” offer. Derek Fisher said he couldn’t say “significant process” was made.)
(UPDATE: Players and owners are set to meet at 1 p.m. today, four hours before the league’s deadline. Adrian Wojnarowski reports that David Stern can make a “very slight budge” on the system issues that players say are unacceptable. The union seems ready to accept a 50-50 BRI split, which would more than cover the owners’ claimed losses of $300 million last season.)
As I traveled around the league during the 2010-11 season, I kept hearing that some owners were willing to lose a season in order to get a more favorable CBA. I didn’t believe it, especially since the season ended up being a success. What good would it do owners to get a better CBA if they damaged their popular product in the process?
But now it appears that’s where we’re at. David Stern has issued what amounts to an ultimatum: If the players don’t take the owners’ latest CBA offer (which they’ve already said is unacceptable) by Wednesday, then things get really ugly.
Last night on SportsCenter, Stern said: “We think that there’s a great offer on the table and what we told the players is it’s getting late. The only rational thing to do is for us to make that deal because given what’s going on in our business and our industry, it will get worse from there.” Meanwhile ESPN’s Chris Broussard reports that at least 15 owners hope the players reject the current offer because they believe it’s too generous.
There are reports that some players want to vote to authorize a vote on union decertification, setting in place a process that could scuttle the season. (Stern dismissed the consequences of the tactic, saying it didn’t work for NFL players.) Other reports say there is a faction of players that wants to hold a vote on the owners’ offer.
Union team reps are meeting in New York today. (Mo was the Hawks’ player rep until he got traded. Then it was Etan, who is a member of the union’s executive committee. Now the union says it’s Zaza, but he’s in Turkey so Al is in New York as Atlanta’s acting rep.)
Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports reports that there’s still a chance the union and Stern could meet before the Wednesday deadline. Kobe says he wants that to happen in order to “save this from spiraling into a nuclear winter.”
Anthony Tolliver, the T-Wolves’ player rep, told the Minneapolis Star-Tribune’s Jerry Zgoda that players are “split” on what to do. He also says there’s an emotional element involved for players:
“As players, we felt like we’ve been taken advantage of. The real reason why guys want to decertify is they felt like the owners really screwed us at the end of the day. I don’t blame them. I feel that, too. At the end of the day, it is what it is. Now we have to decide if this is the best of the worst or if we think we can achieve something better in the courts system.”
Howard Beck of the New York Times has the details on the letter Stern sent to the union outlining both the owners’ latest proposal and what the next proposal would be if the players don’t accept that one by Wednesday. From the players’ perspective, it’s either take the bad offer on the table now or be left with a horrible offer that includes salary rollbacks after that.
In the SC interview, Stern declined to talk about the possibility of canceling the season because he didn’t want to make “empty threats” to players. If the reports about the hardline owners are accurate, then Wednesday’s deadline isn’t an empty threat at all. I never would have believed it would get to this point.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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246 comments Add your comment
NBA = No Basketball Association
November 8th, 2011
5:47 pm
Lost interest in your product years ago! NEVER coming back…EVER!
Jerry
November 8th, 2011
6:00 pm
the hawks will never get another dollar of our small amount of money, stone mountain, the zoo, the aquarium, the varsity, and even the bowling alley, beware: you have a few old customers on the way back around.
chuck
November 8th, 2011
7:08 pm
I use to take my family of 4 to about a dozen games per year. We have stopped attending the NBA and have been going to college games for two reasons. First, the local Atlanta Hawks team can’t be competitive against the owners that have unlimited spending capabilities. Second, the prices have become too much in this economy for a family of 4.
I hope the owners hold the line on a true hard salary cap to level the playing field. Second, I suggest the owners cut the players percentage of revenue back into the low 40% range. That way the owners could have a chance to make a reasonable return (5-10%) on their teams WITHOUT having to raise the already too high ticket prices.
Observor
November 8th, 2011
7:35 pm
This is great news. Hopefully this whole stupid league implodes.
drmaryb.(*_*).
November 8th, 2011
7:42 pm
99 Problems!
I got 99 problems, and, I promise you – The NBA ain’t one.
drmaryb.(*_*).
November 8th, 2011
7:47 pm
Discretionary Income!
Entertainment dollars are discretionary to the consumer. Hopefully, The NBA will soon understand this concept and throw their hat in the pot. Because right now, we are all putting the money in the hat and pulling straws to see who get’s paid this month versus next month.
The NBA for me personally, was a useful outlet to get away from the real problems. We will soon find other forms of entertainment – even if it’s just an affordable dinner after window shopping at the Mall.
Simjr
November 8th, 2011
8:01 pm
drmaryb.(*_*).
November 8th, 2011
7:42 pm
99 Problems!
“I got 99 problems, and, I promise you – The NBA ain’t one.”
Yes! Yes! YES!
FIRE Sund ASAP!!!!
down-in-ga
November 8th, 2011
8:05 pm
has anyone heard of these players practicing like the football players did? I haven’t heard it on any news shows. The league should keep them locked out, have a draft next year, and let the incoming draft and scabs play. within two years the other players would be begging to come back and boom, you’ve got your precious nba back.
Paddy
November 8th, 2011
8:15 pm
Bobby Lee Lane……..the NBA does not have to force the ASG to sell. They are very motivated to sell all on their own. They are losing millions and the whole town hates them and will not buy tickets.
Nick
November 8th, 2011
8:21 pm
Someone’s going to buy the Hawks extremely cheap
IceColdATLien
November 8th, 2011
8:26 pm
If I were the players, I would schedule exhibition games all over the country for the next year… with all proceeds being divided evenly across all NBA players to subsidize their income… and tell the owners to go play pick-up games in their empty stadiums.
marcus
November 8th, 2011
8:31 pm
if i have a business and my employers try to dictate to me the terms of their employment, then it would place the impetus on me to find new employees. we all know that in the nba it does not work like this, however, as an employee once i come to grips with the fact that i will have to take a pay cut in order to keep myself working in a lucrative job and this cut would bring stability for me and those following me into this workplace, then it would behoove me to look at the big picture.
in short; i support the owners. they are trying to look beyond individual contracts and bring a fix to the screwed up cba they originally agreed to. the league will lose teams if the owners give in to the players.
Smiling Jack
November 8th, 2011
8:51 pm
Let them sit…who cares…fans can survive without NBA basketball in Atlanta.
Smiling Jack
November 8th, 2011
8:57 pm
Probably there is only a handful of fans who would shell out money to see player sponsored exhibition games…The players who could would go to Europe to play, but there they will bust with the failing European economy. 50% is better than no %…It’s not like they are playing for nothing. You gotta respect people who make wise decisions and put aside personal gain for the betterment of all. Talk about “killing the goose that laid the golden egg!!!”
Astro Joe
November 8th, 2011
9:20 pm
Owners previously agreed to give the players 57% of basketball-related-income people. From what I’ve read, the players are willing to tkae less money and contracts that last fewer years… the owners want to take their foot of concessions and turn it into a yard. I don’t really care who “wins”, I just want games… and to balance the prevailing thought that the players are asking for more when in fact they are willing to take a little less.
Astro Joe
November 8th, 2011
9:21 pm
Oops, owners agreed to 57% in previous labor contract, players are willing to accept closer to 52-53% while owners are offering 50%. Players are clearly making a concession people.
Astro Joe
November 8th, 2011
9:32 pm
Al_Horford
Official Twitter Page of Atlanta Hawks star Forward/Center Al Horford
The Union player meeting went well today. We are staying strong! And asking for a fair deal.
Bull Heffer III
November 8th, 2011
9:34 pm
I think that the NBA and the players should just part ways all together. The NBA just needs to start over with fresh players who are hungry about basketball and not greedy over money. Follow the salary structure of the Magic Johnson, Dr. J, Larry Bird heydays. No contracts over $ 1 million per year. Let the new players( replacements ) earn their extra millions via endorsements or something. Also, the rejects ( i.e. Lebron Flames ) should have never been given the opportunity to share in the revenues outside of their salaries. That was a bad deal for the owners. The players have grown spoil over the owners stupidity from previous CBA…..The rejects should take their talent on the road and just entertain via And One like pic up games because they are just a bunch of spoil clowns..If they were smart they would be thankful just to have 1% of the share of revenue, let alone 50.2 freakin percent. They should be thankful for their millions of dollars in salary…people are struggling to make a buck and these clowns are arguing over millions like they are hurtin for money.
down-in-ga
November 8th, 2011
9:35 pm
I agree with marcus. Icecoldatlien is probably one of the wives who needs her ca$h. And I will let the void of the faceless internet cast a mask on who i am. who cares how much money I make. If a contract doesn’t get done, I won’t care. I’d rather give my money to the NFL.
Astro Joe
November 8th, 2011
9:41 pm
RIP, Heavy D!
Astro Joe
November 8th, 2011
9:49 pm
David Stern would not only love to have Johnson in a prominent role in the NBA again — Magic remains a Lakers vice president, but with little day-to-day involvement — but the commissioner has said he expects Johnson to one day be part of an ownership group.
Atlanta is an unexpected option again after the sale to Alex Meruelo fell through last week. Bruce Levenson, one of the heads of the ownership group that would continue to run the team, quickly said the Hawks are no longer for sale. That is either true or, just maybe, what he has to say. Either way, Johnson will probably find out for himself.
Spoke
November 8th, 2011
9:54 pm
I could do without the NBA for a year. Let’s see some barnstorming college alumni games. There is already a UNC alumni vs. Duke alumni game brewing. I’d like to see more of that sort of thing. Take it on the road! http://sports.chronicleblogs.com/2011/11/07/breaking-duke-north-carolina-alumni-game-confirmed/
Isaiah Rider
November 8th, 2011
9:56 pm
Ok- the NBA sucks. Whatever happened to Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kareem….etc. This new generation of players are nothing more than good athletes who were taught that dunking a basketball was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Fundamental basketball is a thing of the past. Take Lebron for instance….dude can’t shoot the outside jumper if his life depended on it. He’s just a freak athlete and not much of a BB player.
KevinM
November 8th, 2011
10:46 pm
Just read the same thing you posted Astro…this city is screwed either way.
I dunno which one I would rather see…I know what the Hawks will look like already….can we do without the NBA for a full winter?
I think so the more I think about it….don’t we deserve a year off from Josh’s jumpers and Marvin’s no-shows?
Bobby
November 8th, 2011
10:47 pm
The early years of Hawks basketball when the club was in the western conference with the Lakers was more pure in appearance, and play, than what is happening in the league today, no matter who the so call super star may be at the moment, and at way less the dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Peter
November 8th, 2011
11:07 pm
Who cares about the NBA, the attitude there, and the way the game is played today in general. There are a few teams that play complete games…… Perhaps the league should disband, and start fresh.
The Hawks are a joke starting with the owners to the GM, to the players minus a few who really care.
I won’t spend my money with them, so good luck to all !
Bill Bridges was a beast
November 8th, 2011
11:15 pm
Traveling, double dribbling, carrying the ball, no defense, no passing, very few jumpers or free throws or moving without the ball and absolutely no fundamentals. When basketball shows up, call me. You can have the NBA.
Mike is back
November 8th, 2011
11:21 pm
MC, I think Stern has forgotten that he was part of negotiations of the previous contract…why do the owners have to have a slam dunk to make a deal.
Stern is just as responsible for allowing everything get to this point as the players…I don’t blame the players…I wouldn’t trust Stern either.
Hey, I missed the game as much as anybody…but in my opinion the players have bargain in good faith. I can’t say the same for Stern and the owners.
Why is Stern given a pass for previous contract…and the players are not…I suspect after Wednesday…we will see more theatric from Stern…I think we see some type of abbreviated season…if not…hey, life will go on.
brigadierjerry
November 8th, 2011
11:24 pm
RIP to the overweight lover rapper Heavy D and yardie.
Al
November 8th, 2011
11:28 pm
We were at tech in 71 to see the hawk-76er game sunday afternoon, as the half ended Bill Bridges was leaving the court for the locker room and Keith Jackson was waiting at court side for a word from him, the league was so much better then, than today.
doc
November 8th, 2011
11:30 pm
funny to see folks taking sides and calling players greedy when half the owners are BILLIONAIRES. what is the definition of greed millionaires or billionaires and tell me how you know the frigging difference? billionaires got there by being super greedy. any fan that thinks weget kick backs if the owners win they are ready to buy beach front in oklahoma. again envyof what players get in negotiations which cost themintheir own incomes is as wrong as to assume greed on their part. if owners back in the day hadnt played either the role of sweat shop owners or plantation owners in sports unions wouldnt have come to any sport. onwers brought it on themselves as players had no rights to move to an offer that was competitive. if you teach you can move where you wantbplayers in all sports couldnt and ownes were protected beyond need by antitrust laws. again this is a club or a cooperative pretending to be a business.
the owners are greedy as all get out as this could be managed quickly by profit sharing equally by owners and reeling in contract lengths that would make me happy to see thise concessions on each side. if owners realoy want me to buy the pill of competitive balance then this would ibdicate they are serious. until they open their books to show ys all how bad it is they are frigging liars and we only give the billionaures more money for whuch they will evade taxes on and that really pisses me off
Atlanta Spirit Sucks
November 8th, 2011
11:31 pm
Just “DEAL WITH IT” Levenson. Gearon Jr. can go sniff an onion and cry.
Stern and Bettman should have never approved these douchebags as NBA/NHL owners. Watching those douchebags go broke is worth missing one NBA season.
doc
November 8th, 2011
11:36 pm
amen to mike us back
sadly i say folks that speak to players greed have racist tendencies becaus they are too blind to see the greedy owners as they are plsying a huge power game to only ballast their own coffers. again if they want competitive valance and to make money then shae vetween the obvious big markets and the forever small markets necessary to keep the game going. if small markets are to profit significantly then how much do the big boys make?
Dale
November 8th, 2011
11:39 pm
RIP Heavy A$$
RaJaH
November 8th, 2011
11:45 pm
Great points Mike is Back and Doc. Players have already given back close to what owners claim in losses. What’s the point if the real system issues are not being addressed.
d
November 9th, 2011
12:13 am
I will miss the NBA. I guess it is fashionable now to bash athletes for making lots of money but let ole Kim Kardashian or Oprah or anyone of these other people make as much as they want and not a peep out of anyone. Wake up people the owners say they are losing money you don’t know that because they won’t open their books. Think back to the last lockout after it was resolved everyone said the players lost “horribly.” If they lost so bad then why do the owners want to take away more, it’s because they are greedy. The players have given back and have never asked for more. They just want a fair deal. I bet if some of your sons or brothers were playing a lot of your tunes would change. Quit hating because some guys make more money than you for playing a game. Is it fair probably not but hell life if far from fair.
Michael
November 9th, 2011
12:36 am
I love the way the workers of the world always support management.
Grandad
November 9th, 2011
1:02 am
doc
racist tendencies ?
Where in heck does that come from ?
You have been tip-toeing around the whole race thing
during the whole negotiation.
How is it racist?
Baseball is largely white, & hispanic,
yet, in labor negotiations I’ve heard the same “greedy players” tag
bandied about.
Why do we bring race into every dad-gum thing.
If I call LeBJ an “ass clown” it’s because he acts the part.
I would imagine there is more greed among republicans than socialists.
Racist – maybe ?
Republican = white … mostly.
Was that racist … No. [fact]
Here are some facts;
*LeBron had an aggrandized sense of self worth.
*LeBJ decided he was above & beyond…………..
*The owners decided they were in charge.
*Then they had a big ol’ pissin’ contest
*Stern was kinda like LeBron, except = spurious ego, small hands.
[Stern's a Jew lawyer (is that racist) probably]
*Owners: [2 groups]
1. Overcopiously Opulent = Mark Cuban
-or-
2. All Hat & No Cattle = ASG
[Stern has had trouble controlling the AHNC group]
*Now the agents:
[They are the little turds that are getting a pass on this deal]
(stirring up the pot – pushing for de-certification)
These are the facts:
Greed … Greeed … Greeeed … Greeeeed … Greeeeeed and more greed.
Me; I’m for the ticket takers, bartenders, cab drivers, *asst coaches, trainers,
the guy that sweeps the floor, the little dancin’ girls, and all the little people.
*[asst coaches - the guy who stacks the videos & splices the scouting tapes]
______________________________________________________
I missed it by one day.
Deal gets done tomorrow.
Players have already voted to accept 50/50.
If owners turn it down, then we’ll know.
Players want a couple of tweaks on system issues to save face.
______________________________________________________
doc:
I do not wish to scrap with you.
It is a tiring and losing cause on my part.
Have a pleasant eve my friend,
G-dad
Grandad
November 9th, 2011
1:11 am
If Shaq Goodwin sticks with his Memphis commit,
it will make me sad.
I really wanted this kid to stay in state.
He is a terrific talent & has a ton of charisma.
I would have loved to see him play for the Dawgs !
*[but even the Jackets to keep him @ home]
I hate to see our top youngsters go out-of-state.
Shaq – If you’re listnin’ – Please stay home !
Either way … Good Luck -&- Great Career.
Maybe a Hawk One Day !
Buddy Grizzard
November 9th, 2011
3:35 am
“If we lose a year, does all of the contracts get shorter, meaning if we do not pay this year to JJ, does the contracts merely continue next year or do they lose that year?” – dap01
This is something that has to be negotiated within the CBA that eventually gets accepted. Naturally Prokorov and DeVos are going to want the existing contracts to get pushed back a year to keep Deron Williams and Dwight Howard from becoming free agents at the conclusion of the lockout.
Jay
November 9th, 2011
3:44 am
Do what the NFL did back during their strike in the 80’s. Use replacement players. There are a lot of players from college that couldn’t make it in the NBA then who would love to tryout now. Expand the roster to 14 players and pay them a flat rate per game and let the millionaire players sit (or play – if they cross the picket line). I’m tired of millionaire ball players and billionaire team owners playing their mind games while those people who depend on the seasons to earn their living, feed their families and scratch out a living – become the REAL victims. If it wasn’t for us fans, these would be grown men playing a little boys game. Most of these “men” played ball at college and didn’t get an education (just made the colleges money while they waited to go to the NBA).
The rest of the world is struggling yet the owners and players are arguing about a few percentages points of the MILLIONS of dollars they will split. Let’s boycott them and see where they earn their money then. No ticket sales, jersey sales, commercials – nothing! Then see is their sorry butts don’t sit down and come to an agreement. They also need to compensate those people that are the real victims – the pele who depend on the ball seasons to earn their living.
jay
November 9th, 2011
5:43 am
Both sides are kinda of out of touch with reality. The players are way overpaid, but the owners and their GM’s are over paying for players. Joe Johnson’s max contract is a perfect example. Never the less, the honess is on the owners to get a deal done. They may be willing to cancel a season to get a favorable deal but if I belonged to the owners group, I’d rather have a 43/57 split of $2 billion as opposed to a 50/50 split of $500 million because each day they lock the players out, interest is dwindling in their product.
jay
November 9th, 2011
5:53 am
@ the other Jay:
You’re trying to tell me you’d watch a guy my size (5′ 9″ and 175lbs) playing power forward for your favorite team when guys like Blake Griffin who can EASILY jump over a car and dunk a basketball are out there waiting to play? I can barely touch the backboard let alone the rim. Nobody would pay to see that and the owners know that.
northcyde
November 9th, 2011
6:12 am
What kills me in this debate, is how NON-NBA FANS chime in on this debate, like their opinion matters.
Guess what? It doesn’t.
Because you weren’t watching the league anyway.
You got all of these football and hockey fans chirping away, acting like they’re disgruntled NBA fans or something. LOL . . you don’t even watch the league. So who cares what you think.
The only thing that matters right now is how the true fans of the NBA view all of this. If the lockout ends sometime this week ( or today ), will most of them come back and go to the games? If the lockout causes the season to be lost, will that cause them to dismiss the NBA in future years?
Those are the only thing that matters because these will be the fans that determine how much revenue the NBA ( and specific teams ) make in the future.
The rest of you non-NBA fans can continue to chirp away, but understand that your opinion on this situation really doesn’t matter. And it’s annoying as hell to see some of you act like you are fans of the league, but are done with the NBA because of the lockout.
RedandBlackPeachy
November 9th, 2011
6:22 am
College basketball will still be available. Stern, the threat of cancelling the season shouldn’t be empty. Actually cancel the whole thing! If NBA players thing NFL players weren’t thinking about how college football would dominate fan entertainment if the CBA negotiations were protracted, they are foolish. In July, fans were prepared to turn to college football as an outlet and the exact same thing will happen with basketball. It is a dangerous thought when you think you are not expendable.
northcyde
November 9th, 2011
6:25 am
chuck
November 8th, 2011
7:08 pm
I use to take my family of 4 to about a dozen games per year. We have stopped attending the NBA and have been going to college games for two reasons. First, the local Atlanta Hawks team can’t be competitive against the owners that have unlimited spending capabilities. Second, the prices have become too much in this economy for a family of 4.
I hope the owners hold the line on a true hard salary cap to level the playing field. Second, I suggest the owners cut the players percentage of revenue back into the low 40% range. That way the owners could have a chance to make a reasonable return (5-10%) on their teams WITHOUT having to raise the already too high ticket prices.
************************************
But Chuck . . . do you think that teams that are seeking to make a profit, are going to lower ticket prices just because they’re playing out less in salaries? This is a supply and demand type industry. There is a reason why the ASG charges you out the arse for Hawks tickets to see the Heat or the Lakers, than they do to see the Pistons and the Kings. Their pricing have nothing to do with the Hawks payroll.
As for the Hawks not being able to compete with the larger market teams, that’s false as well. The Hawks simply have to be SMARTER in how they construct the team. We’ve made the playoffs 4 straight years. I believe only like 7 or 8 other teams can say that in the last 4 years.
The issue isn’t about us being competitive. We’re definitely competitive. The issue is if we can get to a championship contender type level. Money constraints are only a small reason for this. Chicago’s payroll is less than ours, yet, they’re a title contender ( mainly due to the Derrick Rose draft pick )
Had the Hawks done what they should’ve done 6 years ago ( and draft Chris Paul or Deron Williams ), we may be talking about the Hawks being on the verge of a title.
These owners who can’t make a profit, have mainly done it to themselves with their bad business decisions. I don’t shed one tear for Michael Jordan and the Charlotte Bobcats, when Jordan has repeatedly shown that he is one of the worst executives in the league.
jay
November 9th, 2011
6:45 am
@ northcyde:
Preach on Brotha!!!
Changes r a cumin
November 9th, 2011
7:44 am
With the current makeup of the NBA and its players, Im glad a dose of reality and employees vs owners has risen up. I would rather watch two mules fighting over a turnip than watch the current NBA.
Paddy
November 9th, 2011
7:55 am
down-in-ga…………the reason you don’t hear about the NBA players practicing during the strike is twofold. 1. They are not practicing, which I doubt is true. 2. Nobody cares, which is more accurate gague of national interest in this sport.
resno2
November 9th, 2011
7:55 am
what?!?!? no nba??? I hadn’t noticed.