Atlanta Hawks: Amnesty now?

Let’s assume the lockout eventually ends (please) and that two of the provisions reported by both SI’s Sam Amick and Howard Beck of the New York Times both are part of the new CBA: an amnesty clause and a “stretch” provision.

Beck reports that there is a “tentative agreement” for both items, while Amick says the amnesty clause is “resolved” and the stretch provision is “mostly resolved.” It’s also worth noting that David Stern has said more than once that there’s no deal on anything without a deal on everything.

Let’s also assume that Alex Meruelo will be approved to assume majority ownership of the Hawks in the near future. Should he/will he take advantage of these new CBA provisions right away? If so, on which player(s) should he use them?

First, the details of each provision as outlined by Beck and Amick:

  • Under the amnesty clause, teams would be able to waive one player (already under contract) over the life of the CBA and the player’s salary cap would not be . Repeat: this will not be available for future contracts. It’s also not clear if the amnesty clause can be used on a player acquired via trade.
  • The “stretch” provision would allow teams to waive a player and then spread the money owed out beyond the length of the contract. Both Amick and Beck say the formula is double the amount of years remaining on the contract, plus one. So if a player with two years and $10 million left on his contract is waived, he will be paid the $10 million over five years, or $2 million per year, with that amount also counting against the team’s annual cap payroll for five years. (Amick reports that the provision can be used once per year.)

Over at ESPN.com, Marc Stein and Chad Ford nominate Marvin Williams as Atlanta’s most likely candidate for the amnesty clause:

Sources with knowledge of the Hawks’ thinking insist that the team isn’t ready to give up on Williams. Atlanta apparently still thinks that, at worst, it can deal him away, despite the Hawks’ inability to find any sort of trade market for Williams up to now. The fact that Atlanta’s ownership situation remains highly unsettled, thanks to the latest revelations about Alex Meruelo’s attempt to buy the franchise potentially collapsing, might also buy Williams some more time in the ATL.

Yet most rival teams believe that, at some point in whatever amnesty window is ultimately made official, Williams and the remaining money on his deal ($25 million through 2013-14) have to go. . . .

Seems to me there’s some contradiction here. If the Hawks haven’t given up on Williams, then why did they shop him at trade deadline in each of the last two seasons? They certainly would trade Marvin if they could but there’s just been no market for him.

Anyway, the thing that makes Marvin a more likely candidate for the amnesty clause than J.J. is that the salary still must be paid after a player is waived. Do you think Meruelo would rather eat the $25 million owed to Marvin, a player who can be replaced by a player making less money, or be on the hook for $107 million to J.J. who–while making superstar money without superstar production–would be much more difficult to replace?

Wiping away J.J.’s salary now with the amnesty clause and keeping Marvin would make Atlanta’s committed payroll look like this over the next five seasons (not counting non-guaranteed deals and prorated amounts for canceled games and assuming Marvin exercises his $8.05 million option for 2013-15):

  • $47.0 million for six players in 2011-12
  • $41.8 million for five players in 2012-13
  • $20 million for two players in 2013-14 (not counting Teague’s qualifying offer
  • $12 million for two players in 2014-15
  • $12 million for two players in 2015-16.

Wiping away Marvin’s salary now and keeping J.J. would make Atlanta’s committed payroll look like this over the next five seasons (not counting pro-rated salaries for canceled games or non-guaranteed deals):

  • $57.0 million for six players in 2011-12
  • $53.5 million for five players in 2012-13
  • $32.5 million for two players in 2013-14 (not counting Teague’s qualifying offer)
  • $35.2 million in 2014-15
  • $36.9 million in 2015-16.

Assuming the cap continues to hover at about $60 million, the Hawks would gain significant and immediate relief by waiving J.J using the amnesty clause. They would have to wait until 2013-14 to see dramatic cap benefits from waiving Marvin using the amnesty.

But could the Hawks use the “stretch” provision to get better results?

Waiving Marvin using that mechanism would spread his $25 million over seven years (3 x 2 +1). The cap figures for each of those seven years would be 25/7, or about $3.6 million. It might be better to live with Marvin’s salary for at least another year (or two years, and then try to trade his expiring contract in 2013-14) than spread it out for what would be moderate cap savings.

Waiving J.J. now using the “stretch” provision would mean spreading the $107 million over 11 years (5 x 2 +1). The cap figure for each year would be 107/11, or about $9.72 million. That seems like too much dead money for too many years (and writing “dead money” makes me feel like I’m back covering the NFL).

A lot of this, of course, depends on Meruelo’s strategy, which is difficult to ascertain since the lockout gag order comes with the threat of hefty fines from the league and Meruelo hasn’t even taken control of the team yet. (These are also the reasons it’s been impossible to write anything meaningful about the Hawks, but I digress.)

Is Meruelo willing to eat salary and then also double down by adding to the payroll to replace the player(s) let go? Does he even have the cash flow to do so even if he wanted to? Or would the reported lack of cash flow make Meruelo even more likely to use the stretch provision on J.J. and then not try to replace him with comparable player, thus trimming Meruelo’s annual expenses significantly while tying up long-term cap money (and no doubt angering my blog people)?

Would ASG be willing to waive players and then add payroll while the sale of the team is in limbo? Would ASG do it if the sale of the team falls through? If so, would the current owners use one of the provisions now or leave that to the next buyer, assuming they find another one?

Shoot, could they even wait to use the amnesty or stretch provision? Just getting the roster to the minimum would push them over the current luxury-tax threshold, and I’m assuming that still is a no go no matter which owner(s) calls the shots.

My hope is that soon after the lockout ends the answers to these and so many other Hawks questions will finally be answered.

Etc.

Dinamo Sassari waived Hawks draftee Keith “Kito” Benson. Benson’s mother, Janice Hale, called it a “mutual parting of ways” and said Benson will work out at Oakland (Mich.) University with a focus on building his strength. Sportando Basket tweeted me a take on Benson’s departure. . . .

I’ve called and emailed Zaza to check on the reports of his injury but haven’t heard back yet. Will update if/when I do. . . .

It turns out Damien Wilkins’ “Monster Slam” exhibition game on Saturday will be at Clark Atlanta after all. Tickets and info are available here. . . .

Hoopinion notes that Pape Sy had a good game. . . .

Peachtree Hoops is part of a black-white thing. . . .

If you want to help ensure the comments stay open, please shoot me an email directly (mcunningham at ajc.com) if there is a troll issue. That way I can take care of it quickly and leave the thread open. The online complaint form does not come directly to me so usually I don’t see it until much later, if at all, and by then the comments are subject to being closed by the tech folks without my knowledge.

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

165 comments Add your comment

Najeh Davenpoop

November 1st, 2011
6:33 pm

Joe still has trade value and on the court value. Marvin has very little of each. Amnesty Marvin.

A concerned fan..

November 1st, 2011
7:09 pm

MrNique

November 1st, 2011
7:11 pm

At first, I thought we should for sure Amnesty Marvin. But reading this article, I think it might be better to trade him when/if we can. Getting rid of him doesn’t get us under the cap, so it’ll be hard to replace him anyway.

Robert Yates

November 1st, 2011
7:14 pm

Marvin is one of the rare guys that give ME psychic powers every time I watch him play. “Dude, watch him trip and bust his a$$ in a sec.” “Hey check it out…If they give it to Marv on the fast break he’s gonna run right into the guy in front of him.”

James

November 1st, 2011
7:17 pm

Joe was given one of the worst contracts in the history of pro sports..Trade value?

pitifulasgllc

November 1st, 2011
7:23 pm

Can the Hawks use the amnesty to get rid of Rick Sund?

It will be an UGLY salary cap situation no matter what direction they take. The Joe Johnson contract will hamstring the Hawks for foreseeable future. That ship has sailed and will be the ASG’s gift that keeps on giving long after they have crawled back under a rock.

Keep them coming MC. We’re counting on you.

Michael Cunningham

November 1st, 2011
7:30 pm

@James: “Joe was given one of the worst contracts in the history of pro sports..Trade value?”

remember the Knicks and Bulls were ready to give him the max they could last summer, five years and about $95 million. would they or any other team now be willing to take on the five years and $107 million left? in exchange, would the Hawks be willing to take on the bad salaries (with shorter contracts) that almost certainly would be part of such a deal?

Grandmaster JeJe

November 1st, 2011
7:33 pm

Amnesty Marvin

Grandmaster JeJe

November 1st, 2011
7:39 pm

I wrote ” Amnesty Marvin” even before I read this blog.

Grandmaster JeJe

November 1st, 2011
7:41 pm

Yates LMAO I’m that dude too.

Duck got stuffed by Luther Head 4 yrs ago at home vs Houston. That is one thing I will never forget in 60 years

drmaryb.(*_*).

November 1st, 2011
7:42 pm

Mmmm…Hmmmm!

What Najeh said when he was FIRST!!!!
-do marvin- I’m done with this guy’s potential on the court and thusly, I question his fire & desire in the heart and head regions. Pack Marvin’s bags – puh-lease!

(3 mins later). … He still here?

FreshFromAtl

November 1st, 2011
7:46 pm

Hey MC,

Are we back to ‘regularly scheduled’ programming now on the blog?

You know....

November 1st, 2011
9:19 pm

what’ll happen to Marvin? The hawks will amnesty him out of town. The growth experience of being shown the door will make a man out of him and he will play like gangbusters for some team like the clippers…

Brick

November 1st, 2011
10:47 pm

These players dont know how good they have it. Unions destroyed many companies in the USA,and this could be the next to fall. Take your greed and go home and work in fast food joints. I am sick of this

A concerned fan..

November 1st, 2011
11:03 pm

What made marvin walk like that?

jlewis

November 1st, 2011
11:54 pm

Good point MC, people forget Joe was going to get paid either way. If Joe is the player thats gone, who replaces him, I dont see any 6′8 2 guards in the NBA or in college.

Michael Cunningham

November 1st, 2011
11:59 pm

@FreshFromAtl: “Hey MC, Are we back to ‘regularly scheduled’ programming now on the blog?”

“regularly scheduled” as in in the programming provided when there is actual league activity to cover? i don’t think that’s feasible. unfortunately the lockout and ownership limbo, and the info blackout associated with both, make it difficult to write with any authority or insight about the Hawks. i don’t like it, either, but that’s where we are.

Michael Cunningham

November 2nd, 2011
12:03 am

@Brick: “These players dont know how good they have it. Unions destroyed many companies in the USA,and this could be the next to fall. Take your greed and go home and work in fast food joints. I am sick of this”

these players are not like regular workers. they are a small workforce that generates $4 billion in revenue. they are not just the labor, they also are the product. they’ve already given a lot of concessions. how does any of this make them ‘greedy’?

Grandmaster JeJe

November 2nd, 2011
12:10 am

Lockout was rumored to be ending last saturday. Ughhhhh *yawn*

Grandad

November 2nd, 2011
12:45 am

Michael;
there may not be a boat-load of Hawks info
to bring forth.
But, you see how fast we come to life
when the blog is open.
kinda like drmaryb said:
“type a period or a comma, we’ll show up”.

There is NBA news – which directly impacts the Hawks.
We of course do not understand your dynamics At the AJC,
however, it seems you’re not losing $ just by keeping the blog open.
*[By you're, I mean AJC]
It appears there is advertising on the blog.

But what do I know ?

Grandad

November 2nd, 2011
1:10 am

I realize you said:
“It’s also not clear if the amnesty clause
can be used on a player acquired via trade”

Though it seems to me;
If a traded player can be amnestied,
then a whole new mkt opens up for Joe.
Take on a player:
say;
Brandon Roy (hypothetically)
plus another highly functional player from Portland,
perhaps Gerald Wallace,
amnesty Brandon Roy … voila !
Portland replaces Roy with a duplicate player.
Hawks get a terrific [3] forward. (tough minded defender)
Hawks save $30 mil by amnestying Roy.

Hypothetical I understand:
Would we have to throw in another player or pick – maybe ?
But imaginative, forward thinking, & innovative.
Does anyone actually think Rick Sund could pull
a rabbit out of his hat such as this ?
I think not.
Why ? – ’cause he sits at his desk & waits to be fleeced.

My point is Sund doesn’t seem to try !

EmirS.

November 2nd, 2011
2:06 am

Look I’ll be honest,

I’ve said it before….I don’t understand the money aspect of the game. I don’t care. Both sides are going to make more money then almost all of us here regardless how the new CBA turns out. I read the Amnesty clause and the “stretch” clause, understood it (somehow) but did not care.

I just want to watch basketball. I’m not a hockey fan. I can’t even check the standings to see where the Thrashers are. Baseball is over (Congratulations to the Cardinals) so I can’t check nightly standings to see if the Braves are leading the division [not that much of a baseball fan]. I’m not that much into college sports, however I would like to point out that the Yellow Jackets put a whooping on those Tigers!

All I want…is to watch basketball. Judge every single player based on my opinions of them. Hear rumors of trades. Listen to Bob Rathbun and Dominique broadcast the games. See a last second play where the Hawks win [Jamal vs Suns]. Argue with our blog people on who the Hawks need to trade/keep. Etc, etc, etc, etc……………..!

Did I mention the NFL games are played on Sundays. Well Mondays to but the last few…have been horrific.

I miss the NBA. *sarcastic tear input*

EmirS.

November 2nd, 2011
2:07 am

Yes…I miss Dominique’s play by plays. -___-

judy

November 2nd, 2011
6:22 am

I say keep Joe. He is the best player on team and the team wouldn’t be where they are today if it wasn’t for him.Go Joe and the Hawks!!!!!!!!!!!! I can’t wait until the games to start.A true fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

richbrave

November 2nd, 2011
8:00 am

No news is not good news unfortunately. The entire season is in peril just as I said it would be.

Fortunately I’m getting a lot of work done by boycotting ice hockey, a truely wretched ’sport’, and blogging up on the BRAVES.

mountain_jim

November 2nd, 2011
8:04 am

Appreciate the new blog, MC. Jush wish the Hawks were not still the all-time most dis-functional ownership/management group.

Fire Sund!

dap01

November 2nd, 2011
8:28 am

JJ’s contract is the problem. Marvin’s $7 million is not the problem. Marvin is NOT living up to that contract but JJ’s contract is crippling our team for years. His contract will force the Hawks to “start over” in the rebuilding process.

JJ is not earning his contract and it is likely to be more painful each year as the contract goes forward.

drmaryb.(*_*).

November 2nd, 2011
8:44 am

Be Careful!

Be careful what you wish for. Before Joe came here, (willingly, I might add) the Hawks were a 13 win team. Had he left, we would have reverted to the 13 win levels.

Do we really want to become the Clippers, who let all their young talent walk to save a few dollars? I think not. Being competitive and persistent 2 round benchmarks sure does make for interesting talk.

The real question is: How do we become elite and contenders for a title or just an appearance in the semi or finals? Why are we always a PG & Center away for 13 years straight? Our magic number appears to be:

You guessed right fellas – it’s 13! Wow! Such an unlucky number.

drmaryb.(*_*).

November 2nd, 2011
8:52 am

MC

Thank You for addressing the “Antics” that plague healthy blog communications that keep us all on topic here. I know you (AJC) can’t block every Starbucks in town, but a better blog login/ID system would address the mutiple ID users and make your job easier as well.

Good Luck with that. Meanwhile, back at the ranch: the Hawks are who we thought they were – The Hawks!
Looks like Meruelo will need to “Show Stern The Money” before he gains a sale approval. They just want to see his wares. I honestly believe Mr. Meruelo has the capital, but is a shrewd negotiator, in that, if you can use someone elses money, why use yours? Let’s hope Alex “Show them The Money!” And, soon.

Astro Joe

November 2nd, 2011
9:29 am

Dumping Marvin would be a symbolic move that will not likely result in more wins. If the Hawks are going to improve the roster, it won’t be by eliminating one of the least productive players (while leaving little cap space to sign an impact player). Improving the roster will require making trades and in order to dfo that most effectively, the coaching staff needs to help increase the value of certain players. If you want to improve the roster, trade high… when players are considered productive and or promising. Don’t trade low.

dap01

November 2nd, 2011
9:32 am

If we did not have Joe last year, we could have found 3 good players for the money he was paid. That does not translate into 13 wins.

Fact is, the Hawks have little to hope for as for a improvements for several years. We are average and getting worse.

O'Brien

November 2nd, 2011
9:39 am

Dmb,

Although I’m glad JJ signed with the Hawks when he did, I don’t put too much stock into him coming here “willingly”.

1) He was not going to get paid what he wanted in Phoneix
2) He did not want to be 3rd tier to Nash and Amare (would he have made 5 AS teams?)
3) He wanted to be closer to Arkansas

Just my opinion, but JJ gained a lot by coming to the Hawks, just as the Hawks gained a lot by signing JJ.

Say It Aint So

November 2nd, 2011
9:45 am

The only thinh missing concerning Marvin is watching him run off the bench to enter a game and tripping because his sneakers are not tied. Are you kidding me. ASG has destroyed any hope of this ATL franchise winning a championship or being consistantly good.

HawksHomer

November 2nd, 2011
9:47 am

The part I’m missing from the committed salaries is, what would our cap look like with the waived player gone. With JJ missing if you say that salary cap is 60 million that means we have a cap of 50 million for the next 11 years, ouch. With Marvin gone it would be 57 million for 5 years. I don’t know if you really want to waive either of them in that case unless you have an owner with really deep pockets and with a highly paid player the cap hit is way too much.

O'Brien

November 2nd, 2011
9:50 am

Dap01,

If we did not have Joe last year, we could have found 3 good players for the money he was paid..

The Hawks are over the salary cap, so even though JJ was getting $17 mil last year, the Hawks would not have been able to sign 3 players for that $17 mil. If I’m not mistaken, they would have had ~$8 mil available.

If the Hawks didn’t want to pay JJ, then they should have worked out a SNT for him, with either the Knicks or the Bulls. Looking at what the Nuggets got from the Knicks (for Melo), I think the Hawks could have gotten some (not all) of those pieces for JJ.

But this being the Hawks, ASG and Rick Sund, I have very little confidence in them to make a good deal no matter which road they decided to take.

drmaryb.(*_*).

November 2nd, 2011
10:06 am

The Usual Suspects!

Too Much Good Stuff from O’Brien as usual. You covered my rebuttal re: 3 impact players for JJ with only 8M available to spend and sign with. Nuff said re: all that!

My work here is done. A SNT was the only option if Sund really wanted to move JJ – Which we all know Sund never showed any desire to do that. We need a minimum of 2/3 Super-Stars (so it seems), people! We don’t even have ONE! Nam’ one!

Astro Joe

November 2nd, 2011
10:06 am

If the owner of the Hawks (whomever that happens to be), employs the amnesty clause on Marvin… let’s just say that his out-of-pocket expense for the team goes from around $70M to around $74M (assumes we sign a $4M substitute for Marvin). Well, that would equate to previously going about $2M into luxury tax territory in the previous few seasons… something that the owners have not been willing to do. Again, amnesty works best for owners who have the deep pockets to differentiate “cap salary relief” from “out-of-pocket” expenses. They have either a strong enough revenue stream to ignore out-of-pocket implications or have the organic wealth not to care about true bottom line expense. I don’t think that is true of the Hawks owner (again, whomever that owner may be). Want to fix the Hawks? As it was in the past, hire the best possible coaching staff (a $3-4M investment) and/or make some trades. Amnesty doesn’t seem the likely tool to employ.

Michael Cunningham

November 2nd, 2011
10:35 am

@Grandad: “there may not be a boat-load of Hawks info to bring forth. But, you see how fast we come to life when the blog is open. kinda like drmaryb said: “type a period or a comma, we’ll show up”.”

when i first got this gig, a commenter–i can’t remember who–said something to the effect of: “MC, everyone here loves you now. eventually many will come to hate you. this is what happened to Sekou. the truth is, you could just type an ‘x’ and just let everyone run their mouths in the comments.”

“There is NBA news – which directly impacts the Hawks. We of course do not understand your dynamics At the AJC,”

sometimes i don’t understand them, either. let’s just say most of us take orders from someone. i will do my best to make sure there is always a place to comment but my blog people can help greatly by emailing me directly with troll problems.

Michael Cunningham

November 2nd, 2011
10:37 am

@drmaryb “MC, Thank You for addressing the “Antics” that plague healthy blog communications that keep us all on topic here. I know you (AJC) can’t block every Starbucks in town, but a better blog login/ID system would address the mutiple ID users and make your job easier as well.”

we had a meeting on the topic a few weeks back where they told us a new registration system is expected to debut in January. can’t wait.

KBP

November 2nd, 2011
10:57 am

Marvin is a much better player than Hawks fans give him credit for. His decline in scoring over the last two years is a result of our Iso-Joe offense and this faux ball movement now under Drew. Look at his shot attempts during 2007-08 and look at his ppg average. He is clearly the 2nd best perimeter shooter and can defend other 3’s on the perimeter and is a good rebounder. He would flourish in NJ, SA(better fit than Richard Jefferson), LAL(much better shooter than Matt Barnes), Bos, Philly(much better shooter than Igoudala). I love the Hawks and I am a Marvin fan, would love to see him get a better ooportunity to contribute offensively. Will not happen here.

Dr. Warren

November 2nd, 2011
11:04 am

The absurdity of JJ’s contract becomes more evident as time passes. And the Hawks’ financial conundrum, coupled with the ownership uncertainty, combined with the lock-out, makes this almost feel like a 1970’s era situation when the league was at a low point. ‘

Najeh Davenpoop

November 2nd, 2011
11:09 am

“Did I mention the NFL games are played on Sundays. Well Mondays to but the last few…have been horrific.”

This Monday is going to be good, though. Vick vs. the Bears.

drmaryb.(*_*).

November 2nd, 2011
11:09 am

I’m Outa Here!

“1) He was not going to get paid what he wanted in Phoneix
2) He did not want to be 3rd tier to Nash and Amare (would he have made 5 AS teams?)
3) He wanted to be closer to Arkansas”
-O’Brien-
____________

Great points made here, although I agree vehemently with points 2 & 3 up there, point 1 brings me to chime in:

It was reported many times that Joe told the Phoenix GM, “Do NOT match the Hawks offer, I’m outa’ here!”

So IMHO, Mr. Johnson wanted out and his desire was to see if he could “Be The Man” on his own team. The Hawks filled the bill from that standpoint. Even when Steve Belkin rose up and tried to block his deal, he stayed fast! Joe could have thrown in the towel rather than come to a franchise, where he perceived – he was NOT wanted. Joe could have easily picked any team he wanted. I’m sure Boston would have loved to take him back. Just my .02 cents worth of an opinion.

Here’s my point: I’m glad Mr. Johnson is here, but just like LBJ, DWade, Dirk & DRose et.al. (legit super stars) can’t and haven’t won anything on their own? Why do we expect so much more from Joe Johnson. He isn’t even on that level, in any way, whatsoever.

Even the guys I just mentioned have found this to be fundamentally true. And, I put parenthesis around the word – (fundamentally). But, that’s a topic for another blog day.

Just, get Joe some help! A PG & Center would be a nice start. Since Mookie & Dikembe left? We still wait for the basic essential needs of a balance roster. (smh) Cearly! We need a Real GM!!!

Astro Joe

November 2nd, 2011
11:12 am

One last thing, let’s not confuse the amnesty question with “name the Hawk who most deserves to be cut loose”. IMO, the answer to the latter question goes to Marvin with Joe coming in a close second. But the answer to the first issue, amnesty, goes to N/A. IMO, amnesty will NOT conrtibute to an improvement in the roster due to the financial issues MC covers above.

Rod from College Park

November 2nd, 2011
11:13 am

Anybody want to guess who I want to get rid of?

drmaryb.(*_*).

November 2nd, 2011
11:23 am

Master of Ceremony!

MC! Thank You for addressing the Antics with some Good Stuff. I for one am encouraged to hear that the AJC is seriously addressing the blog’s basic need re: multiple ID abusers. We will email you directly from here on as suggested. Keep up the good werk! In LIFE you will NEVER please all the people all the time. DLedbetter gets bashed daily for dropping 5 blogs per day, because the topics are deemed irrelevant. Go Figure? Damn if you do and damned if you don’t.

Our point is this: just keep the communication lines open for the Love of your blog people. We don’t care about the topics – we just wanna’ talk to our friends, sans the troll. LOL

MsDee

November 2nd, 2011
11:30 am

MC, wanted to say so glad you’re back, but I just had to answer your question u wrote earlier, “these players are not like regular workers. they are a small workforce that generates $4 billion in revenue. they are not just the labor, they also are the product. they’ve already given a lot of concessions. how does any of this make them ‘greedy’?”

It makes them ‘greedy’ by not playing up to their potential and can STILL get a HUGE pay check every freaking month as if, “yeah I had a bad season but who cares, look at my new house, I mean, mansion I just bought and check out my new ride..52″ rims..etc”. It makes me sick that these guys cant just enjoy the money they ARE making just to get back on the court and PLAY FOR US FANS and stop worrying what the owners make cause at the end of the day, WE, MEANING ALL AMERICANS INCLUDING OWNERS, ARE IN A RECESSION RIGHT NOW. NO ONE SHOULD BE MAKING WHAT WE MADE SOME YEARS AGO, SO WHY SHOULD THEY STAY AT THERE PRESENT INCOME WHILE, US FANS, DECLINE????? Please answer that for me, MC!!

drmaryb.(*_*).

November 2nd, 2011
11:43 am

Laughable!

“Marvin is a much better player than Hawks fans give him credit for.” -KBP-
_____________

STOP the silliness! Is that “It was not a bad pick”, posting again? IF Marvin went to see The Wizard of OZ and got a Heart – how would that improve his balance and keep him upright in a game on a fast break?

Answer: it won’t! Please, just STOP making excuses for Marvin. “It was a turrible pick!” Period! Amnesty his big butt or trade him for a bag of NBA Logo Socks!

Stick a fork in his Azz and let the hot-air out!

J

November 2nd, 2011
12:06 pm

as a fan that went to a lot of games, i can say that Joe played hurt most of last season. Yeah, he didn’t live up to his contract but you can bet he’s working his butt off now. That fact always seems to be overlooked when people start dumping on Joe. And lets face it, we were lucky to get him b/c nobody in their right mind wanted to come to Atlanta a few years ago.

J

November 2nd, 2011
12:09 pm

and don’t get me wrong, i don’t believe he’s worth what he was paid BUT the fact remains he’s stayed with Atlanta all those years, at least somewhat put them on the map, and finally guided us back to the playoffs. Keep on hating if you’d like, but that’s the reality of it. Joe, when not injured, is a top-notch basketball player. You can say the same about Chipper Jones for the Braves.