Atlanta Hawks: Hope on horizon (Update: Talks break off, more games canceled)

(Update: The league canceled all games through Nov. 30. The BRI still seems to be a sticking point.)

We’ve been here before but it looks like an end to the lockout is within sight.

The two sides are meeting this morning, and Chris Sheridan reports that the split of basketball revenues is at the top of the agenda. That’s been a source of contention between the sides in earlier sessions. Also, things have usually gotten tougher once the small negotiating groups go back to their constituents. So there’s still time for everything to fall apart but there was real optimism after last night’s bargaining session.

Union exec Billy Hunter said the two sides are “within striking distance of a deal.” Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports quotes a source saying: “There’s a strong expectation [within the negotiations] that hands will shake [Friday].” Howard Beck of the New York Times goes so far as to report that there’s still the possibility of an 82-game schedule if a deal is reached soon and that the league has called arenas to clear dates in late April.

It sounds as if they’ve made progress on issues like the mid-level exception, the maximum length of player contracts “Bird rights” and the luxury tax.

There also have been reports that the new deal would include an amnesty clause, which would allow teams to waive one player and, according to’s Marc Stein, wipe most of the salary off the books for cap purposes. There also are reports of a “stretch exception” that would allow a team to waive a player and spread the money owed out over several years. Both provisions could potentially help the Hawks shed payroll and gain some cap flexibility.

Of course, once the lockout ends the Hawks are going to be in flux because of the Alex Meruelo issue. ( When earlier reports surfaced about “seller financing” potentially being a problem, my understanding was that it was not an NBA concern since the league’s lawyers were involved with the deal from the beginning. There is no “seller financing” as part of the deal but there was confusion on that point because some ASG members would retain a minority interest in the team.)

Once the lockout is over, who will be calling the shots on Hawks basketball operations? If it’s ASG, do those owners proceed with the belief that Meruelo will eventually buy the team? If the sale falls through, I’m assuming the current owners still want to sell the team so do they proceed with any long-term planning in the interim?

What a mess.

Wilkins plans game

You don’t have to wait until the season to see NBA-caliber ball. Damien Wilkins has organized a charity game at Morehouse on Nov. 5 with proceeds benefiting the Boys and Girls Club of America. League guys expected to play: Teague, Smoove, J.J., Lou Williams , Jordan Crawford, Anthony Morrow, Chris Wilcox, Derrick Favors, James Harden , Jarrett Jack, Jeff Green, Jonny Flynn, Micheal Beasley, Rudy Gay, Russell Westbrook , Shannon Brown and Trey Thompkins.

The game was originally scheduled to be played at Clark Atlanta but Wilkins said high demand for tickets prompted the move to Morehouse. I can see why. That’s a hell of a lineup if all those dudes play. A lot of them have been playing in those pickup games at an ATL church. Someday I’d like to show up at a court with a squad like that.

Ticket info is here.


Speaking of those pickup games. . . . For my blog people worried (for some reason) that Smoove engaged in a summer of sloth, he’s been showing off a hint of abs at those church pickup games. He said he’s not going for the full six-pack look, though. . . .

Reports in Europe indicate Italian club Dinamo Sassari is on the verge of waiving Hawks draft pick Keith Benson and replacing him with Steven Hunter. There were similar reports last week, which the club denied, and Benson stayed. It’s hard to know what to make of this development since I’m not familiar with the dynamics of Dinamo (hey-o!) but it could all end up being moot if the lockout ends soon. . . .

JC2 never did lack confidence. . . .

This is the best analysis yet of the players’ arguments. That’s because it comes from Kevin Murphy, a University of Chicago economist who is advising the union.

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

174 comments Add your comment


October 29th, 2011
9:41 am

“Where is the update? Nevermind, I will go to another website.”

Don’t be so hard on MC. Obviously he is exhausted after posting exactly ten blogs in four months.


October 29th, 2011
9:51 am

pitfulajc……update is the first line of the article! Geez!!! HELLO, anybody home up there?


October 29th, 2011
9:57 am

Sorry. Make that exactly ten blogs and one two sentence update in four months. I stand corrected and appropriately humbled.


October 29th, 2011
10:55 am

pitifulajc…..if I appologized everytime I did something like that, it would be all I got done for the day. Being from Ireland, sometimes the Jamison gets in my head. But it is only 1030 am, so I’m good for awhile.


October 29th, 2011
1:28 pm

it is possibly going to get worse as owners try to make up lost revenues at the negotiating table. yes the owners are talking a lot of money to keep on their sude of the fence in total but divided among all of them they are really killing the golden goise unless they completely go for broke and cancel the whole season to get the revenue split they want players, fans, ancillary support be d@mned.

well mc see you in a month or so here
maybe college games elsewhere.

Cancel them All!!!!!

October 29th, 2011
1:44 pm

What aholes players are…..If I owned a business, paid for it out of my pocket, pay the costs that go with it and employ hundreds…nobody is going to tell me they are entitled to a majority percentage of said business.

Najeh Davenpoop

October 29th, 2011
1:57 pm

“Also, the amnestly clause devalues my proposed Dwight and Gilbert for Al and Joe trade.”

It ain’t my money, obviously, but I would do that trade even if it meant having to hold on to Gilbert for the duration of his contract. A core of Teague-Smoove-Dwight with any combination of athletic defenders and shooters at the 2 and 3 would have a better chance of going deep in the playoffs than the current squad.

Najeh Davenpoop

October 29th, 2011
2:09 pm

I am not one of these people who thinks Jordan Crawford is some guaranteed future All Star, but those of you who point to his poor efficiency this year as an indicator of him not having promise are missing the point. Just because he was inefficient in his rookie season playing in a system that allowed him to take terrible shots at will doesn’t mean he is going to remain inefficient for the rest of his career. Jamal Crawford in his rookie season was even less efficient than Jordan Crawford, and he turned out fine. As Jordan develops, he will become better at understanding what is and is not a good shot, and he will become better at finishing at the rim and making outside shots (he was 24% from 3 last year and took 4 3’s a game, which is the main reason for his inefficiency). I don’t think his ceiling is that much higher than Jamal, but he will be a solid player for a long time.

Also, sometimes stats don’t tell the whole story. Stats say Adam Morrison as a rookie and Jordan Crawford as a rookie were equally efficient. Stats don’t say, however, that Morrison was supposed to be a lights-out shooter whose athleticism was going to pose problems for him, and it turned out that not only was he too unathletic to get to the rim consistently but his shot was a) not good enough to compensate for it and b) not quick enough for him to get it off against more athletic defenders consistently. Jordan’s shot and shot selection need work, but he has plenty of athleticism and ball handling ability, which is reasonable enough evidence to assume that he will improve, unlike Morrison.

Michael Cunningham

October 29th, 2011
4:40 pm

@pitifulajc: “Don’t be so hard on MC. Obviously he is exhausted after posting exactly ten blogs in four months.”

I see you couldn’t stay away. Welcome back.

drmaryb .(*_*).

October 29th, 2011
5:18 pm

Now that talks have broken down, can one of those BEEFCAKES break me off some???

Poet Laureate

October 29th, 2011
8:24 pm

Mr. Cunningham, why have you not mentioned Zaza’s injury?

Big Ray

October 29th, 2011
9:13 pm

Buddy Grizzard ,

Because Marvin is going to have a breakout year with JC1 and his absurd amount of shot attempts gone. Given a role in the offense, Marvin, and I’ve said this before, will play himself into a tradeable commodity. They may yet use the amnesty clause on him, but only when it produces some tangible gain, such creating cap room to facilitate a specific trade.

I think most folks finally stopped believing that one before they let go of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

All sarcasm aside, it doesn’t matter whether you blame the head coach (there’s been two of them now…Woody always started Marvin, Larry benched him half the time), blame the other players (Joe will take his shots, Jamal took his, and Smoove does what he wants), or Marvin himself – the effect has remained the same.

I’d love to agree with you on this, but Marvin seems destined to do anything but blossom into this wonderfully effective player. Seems to me that Woody, for all his faults and warts, kept the kid in the starting lineup and let him have consistent minutes from year to year. Marvin was doing okay, averaging roughly 12-14 ppg those days, and 5 rebounds or so.

Things didn’t get better for him under Uncle Larry. Again, you can blame whoever you choose (as we all do), but I do recall that the Hawks tried to shop him. Smart front offices generally know when a player is on the verge of a breakout, and what will cause that player to break out. The Hawks had no luck selling Marvin’s talent + his contract. This may not be a definitive answer to whether or not Marvin can be a significantly better player, but it IS an indicator that A) His play was not that well received, and B) His contract was more than any team wanted to pay for him, potential or not…..which kinda leads to C) Sund overpaid for him.

Either that, or Sund made all the wrong moves, as bringing in JC1 has clearly stunted Marvin’s fragile growth curve.

Big Ray

October 29th, 2011
9:15 pm

Don’t be so hard on MC. Obviously he is exhausted after posting exactly ten blogs in four months.

What’s there to write about? Zaza’s restaurant? Smoove practicing his “jumper”? (And Teague NOT doing that)….

Do a check around the League and see if other teams’ beat writers are furiously putting up 2-3 columns a week on their team, with no news to go on….

Big Ray

October 29th, 2011
9:24 pm

The Jordan Crawford issue –

1) The Hawks needed another pg, a solid one who could play defense and be quick enough to run fast breaks. They wanted to go further/deeper in the playoffs.

2) Jordan Crawford could not provide them the above for the purpose of playoffs. What he could provide was a lot of ill-conceived shots at ill-conceived times, with enough makes to keep things interesting/exciting…but not necessarily result in wins. Just so happens that we were able to get the same from Josh Smith and Jamal Crawford. The difference is Josh can play hellacious defense and rebound, while Jamal is a veteran with better finishing ability.

3) The Wiz were asking a lot in trade, since they were going to take on Bibby’s contract. They were and still are in a youth movement. We wanted to dump Bibby and his contract. It was a squeeze play/staring contest, and the Hawks blinked first, simple as that. Either we dumped Bibby and picked up Hinrich the way they wanted to do it, or we didn’t.

If we hadn’t done the deal, nobody would be extolling the virtues of Jordan Crawford in the playoffs. Instead, they’d be cursing Sund’s lack of movement at the trade deadline. There was going to be some massive complaining either way.

4) I’ll go out on a limb and say JC2 has a better career than Marvin Williams. Okay, so that’s not “out on a limb.” It’s also not saying a whole heck of a lot, either. JC2 has to reign in his tendencies and become a better percentage shooter, plus learn to play at least passable defense. If somebody works with him, and he works hard, he’ll be fine.

At least nobody will be talking about cajoling, massaging, and otherwise baby-talking him into being a full-fledged, full-time NBA player…..a la Marvin Williams.

Big Ray

October 29th, 2011
9:56 pm

Did I mention I’m gay?

Big Ray

October 29th, 2011
10:01 pm

Big Ray

October 29th, 2011
9:56 pm
Did I mention I’m gay?

Hey, look….no basketball, but the troll is still around….

Rondo Slade

October 29th, 2011
10:01 pm

I am sorry to say that I could care less about the NBA. I have always enjoyed basketball; but in my opinion the professional game has become a sideshow. There is no team spirit. Instead, the players appear to be a group of self absorbed prima donnas who want more than the millions of dollars each that they make every year. The owners appear concerned only about the hundreds of millions of dollars they can make from television broadcast rights and licensing and marketing fees. Both owners and players seem to have forgotten (if they ever knew) that the fans who buy the tickets are the ones that make the enterprise go. I like basketball. But, I’ll watch the college game. I frankly don’t care if I ever see another NBA game.

Big Ray

October 29th, 2011
10:02 pm

See you later, Troll. I look forward to the “IP address” game we always play on my blog….libraries and coffee shops around the world, beware…..

:roll: :lol:

Big Ray

October 29th, 2011
10:19 pm

The troll is coming to a public computer access area near you….LOL.

Grandmaster JeJe

October 29th, 2011
10:29 pm

We DID shop Marvin around and teams DID want him.

The Nets wanted Marvin in a Devin Harris trade, but we refused and they traded him for Deron.

We could’ve traded Marvin in a deal for Mo Williams/Shaq.

Big Ray

October 29th, 2011
11:01 pm

Based on my last few comments, it looks like I really am gay.


October 29th, 2011
11:51 pm

Good to see some of the long-time posters just wanted to point out an article that I saw today:

Tentative agreements are already in place on the following major items:

¶ Luxury-tax rate: Teams will be charged $1.50 per $1 spent beyond a threshold, replacing the previous dollar-for-dollar tax, according to people who have seen the plan.

To further discourage spending, the tax will increase for every $5 million spent beyond the threshold: to $1.75 after $5 million, $2.50 after $10 million and $3.25 after $15 million.

Under this system, the Los Angeles Lakers would have paid $45 million in taxes last season, compared with $20 million under the old formula. (The rates could still change based on other tradeoffs.)

¶ Contract lengths: Players with “Bird” rights will be eligible for five-year deals, while others will be limited to four. The previous C.B.A. allowed for six-year (Bird) and five-year deals. The 1999 C.B.A. allowed for seven-year (Bird) and six-year deals.

¶ Raises: Annual raises will be reduced by several percentage points, possibly as low as 5.5 percent for Bird players and 3.5 percent for non-Bird players. The prior deal allowed raises as high as 10.5 percent (Bird) and 8 percent.

¶ Midlevel exception: It will start at $5 million, a decrease of $800,000. The contract length and annual raises attached to the exception remain under discussion.

¶ Amnesty clause: Each team will be permitted to waive one player, with pay — anytime during the life of the C.B.A. — and have his salary be exempt from the cap and the luxury tax. Its use will be limited to players already under contract as of July 1, 2011.

¶ Stretch exception: Teams will be permitted to stretch out payments to waived players, spreading out the cap hit, over several seasons. The payment schedule will be set by doubling the years left on the contract and adding one. (Thus a team waiving a player with two years left could pay him over five years.)

I like the last two rules. Makes it so there are less mistakes made with F/A signings

There are a few critical issues still under debate. The N.B.A. wants to further punish tax-paying teams by denying them use of the midlevel exception and sign-and-trade deals, and wants additional penalties for “repeat offenders.” The union opposes those measures.

Not a fan of the bold. Basically it would kill big market teams. In every sport you have big market teams yet basketball wants to be different even though small market teams dont bring in the dough like big market teams. Kinda funny if you ask me. … r=1&src=tp

Poet Laureate

October 29th, 2011
11:54 pm

Great info. Thanks Jerry

Najeh Davenpoop

October 30th, 2011
12:29 am

“The Wiz were asking a lot in trade, since they were going to take on Bibby’s contract. They were and still are in a youth movement. We wanted to dump Bibby and his contract. It was a squeeze play/staring contest, and the Hawks blinked first, simple as that. Either we dumped Bibby and picked up Hinrich the way they wanted to do it, or we didn’t. ”

The problem, of course, is that the trade never had to be made in the first place. If the Hawks had simply started Teague, who was better than Bibby anyway, they may have been able to hold on to JC2 and possibly trade him and Bibby for someone at a different position.


October 30th, 2011
3:05 am

A bit late to the prom.
[still giddy over the Dawgs win]

Flat out – I’d rather have Capt Kirk on my team – period.

I liked the trade then – like it better now.

Teague, Kirk, Joe – nice guard rotation.

Now sign Battier.


October 30th, 2011
3:26 am

For Big Ray:

I don’t know about beat writers in other cities ?
But two or three columns a week; I doubt it.
Heck … one per week … I’ll check on that.
Shoot, we’d be happy with one.

Forget MC;
Let’s talk AJC or the Hawks organization:
Other cities have multiple outlets for info & fan dialogue.
This city – this state – the Hawks have never promoted basketball.

MC catches the crap because it’s [supposedly] his blog.
*(his picture out front)
*(his byline)
So, once again, this is an open forum … folks are frustrated.
Therefore, MC is gonna hear the unpleasantness.
Comes with the terretory.

MC uses this forum to give his honest opinion on;
the Hawks, Players, coaches, LD, the so called troll,
strategies, effort, ASG, Rick Sund, “etc, etc, etc”
*[-Yul Brynner - The King of Siam-]
By the same token – we his “blog people”
should be able to do the same.

Big Ray

October 30th, 2011
6:00 am

The Nets wanted Marvin in a Devin Harris trade, but we refused and they traded him for Deron.

We could’ve traded Marvin in a deal for Mo Williams/Shaq.

Somehow I very much doubt that. Find the source and link us to it, though. I’m more than willing to be proven wrong.

Big Ray

October 30th, 2011
6:11 am

The problem, of course, is that the trade never had to be made in the first place. If the Hawks had simply started Teague, who was better than Bibby anyway, they may have been able to hold on to JC2 and possibly trade him and Bibby for someone at a different position.

The Hawks also didn’t have to re-sign Joe, Bibby, and Marvin to the contracts they got. I have just two answers for you:

1) Sund – inept, old, stupid, tired, and willing to do as he’s told.

2) ASG – meddlesome, quarrelsome, myopic, and foolish to a fault.

The same group who claimed they cut Woody loose in part because he wouldn’t hardly play Teague, let Larry get away with the same thing all season. You make it all sound so simple, Najeh , but you know where the problems lie….

Grandmaster JeJe

October 30th, 2011
8:36 am

Grandmaster JeJe

October 30th, 2011
8:38 am


October 30th, 2011
9:42 am

Also what the NY times article states that The amnesty can be used at any point over the life of the CBA but only with respect to players currently under contract and can’t trade for a player and amnesty his pre CBa deal. Sounds like pretty good superstar insurance in case someone-especially Joe Johnson although I dont wish any type of injury has a serious injury at any point over the life of his deal.


October 30th, 2011
9:44 am

Sorry for the broken NY Times article link. Here is the direct link if anyone is interested

Not So Casual Observer

October 30th, 2011
9:56 am


Yes, the players are paid too much money and the game has degenerated to one on one, “me first” basketball.

That said, you will see something amazing in almost every game, either an athletic defensive or offensive play by a great athlete. Is this enough to generate interest? Time will tell whether individual skills and mediocre results from all but a handful of teams are enough to support the NBA.

The best argument for the owners was the question by one of the players, “Why do the owners need to make money?” Some owners seem to be willing to cancel the season to bring fiscal sanity to a league with little self-restraint. Are they trying to break the union? Probably.

There are only a very few of these players with ability outside of basketball and the willingness to actually work like “normal people”.

If the difference is actually $100 million per year that equates to $250,000 each when spread among 400+ players who currently average $6-7 million per year. Despite all of the cliches, hackneyed phrases and self-serving comments by the leaders of the players, the numbers make the players appear to be foolish.

These are players who, on average, make more money in one year than 99% of the country will make in a lifetime.


October 30th, 2011
11:39 am

oh it is soo good to be back together again for however short a period it is.

mc, can you go to a blog soon that really looks hard at where this ownership thing it going and showing us some of the x’s and o’c on this one before it goes much further or at least give us a link other than tim’s that doesnt really look too deep behind the scenes as to how this ball got started and who is responsible for lack of insight into there it could be derailed. who really put there heads in the sand, basg, nba, lawyers, etc. as there should have been some red flags even before ths thing got too far. at least when i heard the basg had to stay involved or do some of the financing it didnt ring true or seem like it was more than smoke and mirrors. it wold be nice to have a forum to discuss this on with facts or suggestions of what the inevitable outcomes could be.


October 30th, 2011
11:48 am

I would do that trade even if it meant having to hold on to Gilbert for the duration of his contract. – Najeh

Yeah but it will never happen because ORL doesn’t need to dump Gilbert’s contract. They can simply Amnesty it, write it off as a loss for Rich DeVos, and use the money to go after somebody with a better contract than Joe Johnson.

Sounds like pretty good superstar insurance in case someone-especially Joe Johnson although I dont wish any type of injury has a serious injury – brigadierjerry

This is a great point and something I haven’t thought about. Definitely not going to Amnesty Marvin, who is owed so little, when we might need this down the road to dump an aging Joe.

These are players who, on average, make more money in one year than 99% of the country will make in a lifetime. – Not so casual observer

The NBA has produced approximately 1000 players in the last 20 years who have made at least $1 million for their CAREER. The lottery produces more millionaires per year than the NBA.


October 30th, 2011
11:49 am

And he will be the one guy on the team showing up at camp out of shape (like Boris Diaw after he got that new deal 3 or 4 years ago). – Grandmaster JeJe

This is my greatest fear. Marvin should be dropping weight right now. I really think being overweight is the biggest contributor to his back problems. If he starts the season overweight it’s going to ruin the best chance he will ever have to become a 15 ppg player on a playoff team. This is his window of opportunity. We know he’s not assertive enough to take shots away from JC1. With Jamal gone, it’s his for the taking.

If I owned a business, paid for it out of my pocket, pay the costs that go with it and employ hundreds… – Cancel them All

This is a completely ignorant statement. Since 2000, eight NBA teams have begun playing in new or renovated stadiums. The cost of this construction is over $2 billion. 84 percent of that has been paid through public funds, not out of the pockets of the owners:

But you probably blame this country’s financial woes on welfare mothers. Fat, rich white men are the biggest welfare collectors on the planet.


October 30th, 2011
12:08 pm

Interesting article,

I dont know how true it is just an interesting article:

This is opinion: The latest NBA lockout stalemate is all about the basketball-related-income (BRI) split. The owners want 50-50. The players want 52-48.

This is fact: The belief that NBA Players Association president Derek Fisher has been co-opted by commissioner David Stern — and promised the commish he could deliver the union at 50-50 — caused NBPA executive director Billy Hunter and at least one member of the union’s executive committee to confront Fisher on Friday morning and make him reassess his 50-50 push, a source familiar with the negotiations told Friday afternoon.

A veteran NBA player familiar with the negotiations characterized the concerns about Fisher’s allegiance as similar to the concerns about Michael Curry in 2005, the year of the league’s last collective-bargaining agreement.

Curry, an 11-year NBA player who earned about $15 million for his career, was the union’s player president from July 2001 through late June 2005. At age 36, he played 18 games for the Indiana Pacers during the 2004-05 season, his last season. The NBA and the union agreed in principle on the now-expired labor deal on June 21, 2005. A week later, Michael Curry stepped down as the union’s president. On Sept. 8, 2005, David Stern announced that his alleged former labor-agreement adversary would be vice president, player development for the NBA Development League.

“Michael has always expressed an interest in helping to develop young players whose potential has yet to be realized,” Stern stated in a 2005 release. “His personal experience in development leagues and ultimately as a valued NBA veteran, makes him a perfect fit to contribute to the mission of the D-League.”

In August 2006, Stern announced Curry would be promoted to NBA vice president, basketball operations. Curry left that job a year later to serve as an assistant coach on Flip Saunders’ Detroit Pistons staff. A year later, Joe Dumars and Pistons ownership made the bizarre decision to turn their team over to the highly inexperienced Curry, giving him a three-year, $7.5 million contract. Curry was fired after one season — $7.5 million richer.

Do I need to connect all of the dots?

The player rollbacks began in earnest with the 2005 deal. With Fisher — a 15-year veteran who has earned $57 million — allegedly in Stern’s hip pocket, the owners are determined to remake the system and reduce the players’ BRI to 50 percent.

In my earlier column exposing Fisher’s and his assistant Jamie Wior’s inappropriate role in these labor negotiations, I pegged Fisher as a real-life Stringer Bell, the smooth-talking character whose reckless ambition got him in trouble in Season 3 of “The Wire.” The truth is, Curry was Stringer Bell. Fisher is the real-life Cheese Wagstaff, the loose-lipped, double-dealing idiot who got Prop Joe killed.

As I said in my original column, David Stern is a real-life Marlo Stanfield.

Guess that makes me Slim Charles, and “this is for Joe.”

According to my source, at least one five-time champion, NBA superstar with the initials K.B. was on board with Fisher’s push for a 50-50 split. Hunter is firm that the players should not accept less than 52-48. According to my source, Hunter and a member of the executive committee convinced Fisher to stand firm at 52-48 after they questioned the Lakers point guard about his relationship with Stern and deputy commissioner Adam Silver.

According to reports, Hunter ended Friday’s negotiating session, telling Stern the union would not budge on 52-48.

It has been my belief throughout this process that Fisher is the wrong person to be the president of the union. He has earned a substantial amount of money from playing in the NBA. But not enough that he can’t be influenced and baited by the NBA establishment.

Earlier this week, I contacted Steve Nash and Grant Hill to talk about the lockout. They are the kind of mature, super-wealthy, thoughtful players who should be at the head of the union.

union president is a difficult job. Looking out for the best interests of superstars, stars, role players and bench players is extremely complex. The difference between 52 and 50 percent won’t come out of the salaries of LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant and Dirk Nowitzki. It’s the bottom 325 players who are going to be squeezed financially.

This is opinion: Billy Hunter has to answer to the bottom 325 players. Derek Fisher has to answer to the superstars and David Stern.

This is fact: Fisher and Hunter haven’t been on the same page throughout this lockout


October 30th, 2011
12:50 pm


Good to hear from you. I kid because I love.


October 30th, 2011
12:57 pm

Big Ray

Orlando – 6 blogs in October.

OKC – 8 blogs in October.

New Orleans – 15 blogs in October.

Admittedly not all were compelling topics. Most were well north of ZaZa’s latest failed business venture.

I am just a frustrated fan who wants the local monopoly daily to devote more time and attention to a team I have followed for over four decades.

Your blog is missed. The effort required is very much appreciated. When can we expect a return?

Boo Boo

October 30th, 2011
1:10 pm

I am very worried some settlement will take place and cancel the Ringling Brother’s Circus. Pleeeeease, not the circus!!!

Grandmaster JeJe

October 30th, 2011
1:31 pm

This is my greatest fear. Marvin should be dropping weight right now. I really think being overweight is the biggest contributor to his back problems. If he starts the season overweight it’s going to ruin the best chance he will ever have to become a 15 ppg player on a playoff team. This is his window of opportunity. We know he’s not assertive enough to take shots away from JC1. With Jamal gone, it’s his for the taking.

Marvin just has a very bad disproportionate body.

He has skinny arms, skinny legs, and I guess a stomach no homo


October 30th, 2011
3:31 pm

In all seriousness – I’ve been wondering;
what does “no homo” mean ?

Is it latin ?


October 30th, 2011
4:24 pm

On the lockout:

It basically started with LeBJ’s “Decision”.
There was gonna be a protracted heated negotiation anyways,
but then LeBJ came out and “Decisisioned” Plus haughtily
proclaimed that all superstars should play together -and-
the “association should contract several teams such as “Minny”
essentially saying they [small markets did not deserve teams].

Here, on this blog, we had a big discussion one Sun. eve about -LeBJ-
and that very topic. I took the stance that all the workers in those towns
[small mkts] such as tckt takers, bar tenders, cab drivers, et al, would be
impacted economically by contraction and that LeBJ was
immature and shortsighted not to mention an “ass clown”. I was countered
by several on the blog which was just fine and dandy.

Skipping ahead – Now it is being talked about as high as the
President of these here United States that the “B-ball lockout”
is having an economic impact on:
ticket takers, bar tenders, cab drivers, the hotel industry,
the restaurant industry, secondary workers such as medical staff ,
and so on down the line………. hmmmmmmmmm

Now back to the “Decision”:
LeBJ’s little comment about SuperStars should be able to;
“decide for themselves” or in essence “stack the league”
which would provide for a competitive “-IMBALANCE-”
scared the shoo shoo out of the small mkt owners;
-thus- now listen, hence, the phrase “the system is broken”.
The Big city owners – NY, Boston Chi, LAL – were out voted by -
the guys who were not only losing money, but who never won.
‘The small mkt teams. *(exception SA)

One not so small item that is rarely mentioned;
Sautee has posted about this more than once !
-The price of Jet Fuel-
have the players considered
how much more travel costs have risen since the last CBA.

Perhaps instead of arguing over 50/50 split of BRI ?
Let the players have their 52/48 split;
but, let them buy their own airline tickets to and from games.
The owners can just say … the games @ 7:00 PM – be there.

Charles Barkley said it best:
NBA guys travel 1st class, stay in 1st class hotels,
their daily per diem is dickridulous, (team chefs)
highest avg sal of all pro sports.
In this economy – it really is obscene.
Mary Ellen said it best;
where else are they gonna get paid that kind of money;
-with no college degree-
and I would add, in most cases no WC to start a business.

All this my BIGGEST point !
I’m all about -competition- and -competitive balance-.
Have a system that makes cheap ass owners compete.
Yet, one that does not allow a stacked league.

Teams still have to be smart and competent.
*San Antonio Spurs


October 30th, 2011
5:10 pm

Too Much Good Stuff!

Wow! You fellas are ALL on Fiyah! Great comments and points of views. There is a lot for me to chew on, hopefully I can add something of value to this convo, once I digest some of these nuggets and figure out what it all means.

Oh yeah, and before the timer shuts the blog down? LOL

NBAllers R Thugs

October 30th, 2011
6:28 pm

Who cares if the NBA plays another game ? I don’t. Cancel the season !

Section 303

October 30th, 2011
7:11 pm


I’m always concerned about the Spartans. They could be playing the School of the Blind and Deaf and I would still worry they could lose.

Just got back from Lincoln, NE. Home of the most friendly college football fans in America. People are beyond nice.

Section 303

October 30th, 2011
7:12 pm

So….I fell for it. I would have been willing to bet the Lockout would be over by now. This is the last time I get my hopes up, until the deal is final. I had a momentary lapse and forgot the owners and players are all a bunch of morons.

I side with neither side at the moment.


October 30th, 2011
7:48 pm


Good evening. Good to hear from you sir. It has been a long time or seems that way. I am not pro players or owners per se but the players can’t have it both ways…. no hard cap, larger part of the split, guaranteed deals. Why even play the games at all, just tell the owners to write checks, take losses and call it a day…. I figured this was going to be a long hard fight.. the players seem to think this is a renegotiation and that they are giving back.. but that old CBA is done, different set of circumstances now, and the owners want a deal that puts them in a better place.. again, that is not unreasonable, the players have always been in a good place, and anytime people have to make changes where they are taking a bit less, it is always going to be hard to swallow, but in most cases is necessary to save franchises and their own jobs.

The players are fighting this battle as a renegotiation like you say, but only a handful of people in this thread see it differently. The overwhelming majority believe the players are giving up too much based on the last CBA, not recognizing the monumental shift in the economic landscape. It’s obvious that in the court of public opinion the players are winning. But unlike in the past when the winner in the public’s eye would win the war, this time the economics of the matter are taking precedence to public opinion. The owners imo are willing to take the black eye from the media to change a business model that does not work in this economic environment. It’s a matter of survival not for the owners personally, but for their NBA business interest.

We argue back and forth in this thread comparing apples to oranges. Too many people just gloss over the economics as if things will be the way they were back in 2007 real soon. The economic landscape has changed forever imo and all asset prices not in control of government inflating will decrease in value over time. The NBA owners are just trying to get their house in order based on the macro economic picture. I can’t blame them one bit if they continue taking a hard stance.
if the league gets to have a hard cap i think they will give the player the 52.5 they want.
the players will break, but it won’t be the superstars sipping their mai tais who decide they’ve had enough, it will be revolt of the rank and file who will finally get tired of things and just want to get back to playing basketball and earning beaucoup cash. Same way it ended in ‘98. There are already rumblings. They will only get louder as things progress. Then if the players are LUCKY the owners will move the offer back to where it was left off at 50% to catch the defectors. Actually if we are all lucky. Because these owners have been out for blood and I don’t trust their instincts. If they keep pushing lower as more guys defect we really could lose the season.

Grandad, you do make a good point and I have thought of that as well. Contraction would be the probably the best thing for a few teams but I dont see that happening in this econmic climate. Look at the Hornets who are owned by the NBA. Too many jobs are at stake and I dont mean the players. If anything it would just move to another city that doesnt have any NBA team.

Nate ArchiBALL

October 30th, 2011
9:28 pm

@Michael – What are the components of Basketball Related Income (BRI) and what income sources are excluded from BRI?

Big Ray

October 30th, 2011
10:25 pm

Grandmaster JeJe ,

There is no way in all the seven hells that such a deal was going to be a one-for-one. Devin Harris has been twice the player Marvin has been. Not only that, but this just goes to show you how foolish Hawks management/ownership has been. Not offering Marvin in a trade like that after paying him what they did is insanity. I’m saying that one was on the ASG…they liked Joe and feared a fan desertion if their top scorer was gone, and didn’t know if they could convince anybody else to come here – so they paid him like he was a mixture of Kobe and LeBron. Same guys hung onto Marvin until Uncle Larry began benching him, and then they said “hey, wait a minute…we’re paying $7.5 mil a year for a bench player?” THEN they wanted to trade him…