Atlanta Hawks: And so it begins . . .
Well, what seemed inevitable is now official. The NBA season is going to be less than 82 games for its teams this season because owners continue to lock out players without a new CBA.
The league announced tonight that all games through Nov. 14 are canceled–that means wiped away, not postponed as earlier reports speculated might happen before today’s seven-hour negotiation session. For the Hawks, the decision tosses aside games at Minnesota, vs. Boston, at Chicago, vs. New York, vs. Utah and at Orlando.
The new tentative season-opener is now Nov. 16 vs. Indiana at Philips. Season-ticket owners will get refunds with interest for the canceled games, including exhibitions. Alex Meruelo still is awaiting league approval of his purchase of the team from ASG, though he’s already made several trips to Atlanta and is up to speed on team matters.
Why did the league cancel two weeks instead of one? Think it has anything to do with players getting paid every other week during the season and owners wanting to make sure they missed a check? Now we’ll see if the players can maintain solidarity even as they lose money.
As for the issues in contention, including BRI and salary-cap structure, David Aldridge provided a thorough breakdown. David Stern told reporters in New York tonight that “system issues” like contract lengths and annual raises are bigger problems than the BRI split (and Aldridge reports the latter issues is now back to square one).
Looking at it from the outside, it seems to me the NBA is trying to do what every other business in America is doing nowadays: minimize its risks, subsidize its losses and privatize its profits. The players seem to accept that this CBA will not be as good as the last one but they are trying to preserve as much of that system as possible.
Sadly and frustratingly, it sounds like we could be in for a long wait for NBA basketball.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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151 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
October 10th, 2011
11:18 pm
FIRE WOODY
Michael Cunningham
October 10th, 2011
11:31 pm
@Najeh: Awesome.
Grandmaster JeJe
October 10th, 2011
11:43 pm
Whatup MC?!
Grandmaster JeJe
October 10th, 2011
11:44 pm
Gonna be tough weeks for NBA diehards. Falcons season is pretty much over.
Grandmaster JeJe
October 10th, 2011
11:47 pm
If the season were to start now the only players on the team that would be in shape are Joe Teague and Josh. Al would still weigh 185. #yawn
jofixi
October 11th, 2011
12:18 am
@Najeh – arguably the best, and most tension-relieving, post I’ve ever seen on a comments board. Props to you my hawks loving friend
Hand Down, Man Down!
October 11th, 2011
12:28 am
Thanks for the update, MC.
Worldwide Clyde
October 11th, 2011
12:37 am
FIRE SUND
Grandmaster JeJe
October 11th, 2011
12:40 am
FIRE SUND
REHORE WOODY
mike
October 11th, 2011
12:40 am
JeJe- I am betting that Josh is not in shape at all right now.. maybe Teague
Grandmaster JeJe
October 11th, 2011
12:40 am
Rehire
Grandmaster JeJe
October 11th, 2011
12:42 am
Josh prob hasn’t stayed in shape but I’m sure he’s still quick. I bet Marvin still has those puny arms
Michael Cunningham
October 11th, 2011
12:47 am
@JeJe: I’ve been stuck with lots of CFB and the Dream. But I’ve still got a job, so that’s good.
anphill2
October 11th, 2011
12:52 am
Josh has been wearing the husky jeans, since he became a Hawk.
Gotta believe Sund knew the Johnson deal was a 5/100 and not the 6/123.
college>pro
October 11th, 2011
1:26 am
The college game is so much more enjoyable to watch anyway. There are probably a few die hard NBA fans who won’t know what to do with themselves but most basketball fans won’t really care because they can focus more on the college game. I hope more of the season gets cancelled. Professional athletes in general don’t realize how good they have it and I think the NBA players are the worst.
Reggie
October 11th, 2011
3:21 am
@college>pro
Shut up…nobody cares what you think. Get back to your moms basement and continue writing your name on the orange juice and milk you bought from Dollar General.
Ken
October 11th, 2011
5:53 am
I am a sports fan and love the Falcons and Braves. But the Hawks are my favorite. Why can’t we get more basketball news on the Hawks, it’s players, past history, etc.? AJC treats the Hawks like a step-brother to the Falcons and Braves instead of a little brother…
Earl
October 11th, 2011
7:28 am
Please cancel the entire season so sports center won’t be filled with the self glorified thugs patting themselves on the back like someone really cares.
Rasheed Wallace
October 11th, 2011
8:56 am
The peak of my career was when I was an Atlanta hawk
Rasheed Wallace
October 11th, 2011
8:59 am
@Reggie
If you are up at 3:21am on a Tuesday morning, chances are that you live in your moms basement and are out of work, just like me.
Bear
October 11th, 2011
9:03 am
Juch BS! I’ll go play for $50,000 right now.
J
October 11th, 2011
9:13 am
@Earl – last time i checked, NFL players caused more murders than NBA players. Go screw yourself you jack@$$ and get off this blog.
oldmike
October 11th, 2011
9:30 am
Both sides need to get together in a room and come down with an acute case of reality. This ain’t the 80’s or 90’s anymore. People – lots of them – are out of work. Some may never find real work again. The people that need the money the most – all the arena workers and league and team staffers – are not getting paid. How will they ever make up for their loss? For that matter if an entire season is cancelled how will a current player make up that loss. I am guessing the average career for a player is 5-6 years. So they are giving away 16-20 percent of their career earnings to squablle over 3-5 % of revenue? And length of contract? How many of you posting on this blog work with a contract? I am guessing that 99% are at will employees. Maybe even independant contractors. So NBA owners and players get back to the f***ing table and hammer out a deal. And while you are at it try to find a way to give maximum effort in each game you play. Don’t want to hear naymore post game comment like we weren’t ready to play of we mailed it in. None of us working stiffs have that luxury either. BTW what in the world are you doing for 7 hours “negotiating” that results in no progress? Give me a break. One more thing. Are you guys paying attention to what is hitting the NFL? Major injury upon major injury. Think one of those guys who struck is happy he didn’t have OTA’s and a better training camp? Not bloody likely.
Section 303
October 11th, 2011
9:40 am
There will be no season. Even though I knew this was coming (I’ve been saying no 2011-2012 season for the past two years), it still p#sses me off. I think both sides are morons. I do not really side with either one.
Any of you see all the player tweets yesterday? I love how they think a twitter hashtag is going to help fans rally behind their cause. If there was any remaining doubt that NBA players are stupid, yesterday removed any of it. I feel zero sympathy for them.
Players are going to get crushed in this battle. They have no shot. Just a matter of how soon they cave. I think, by the time they do, the season will already have been called.
Section 303
October 11th, 2011
9:45 am
One more thing…I would rather they call the season off rather than play a 50 game season, like in ‘98-’99. That was the worst season of NBA ball I have ever seen. I really do not need to see teams playing back-to-back-to-back nights, going through the motions, playing sloppy games. It was garbage. League would be better off calling things off than subjecting us to that mess again.
dap01
October 11th, 2011
9:51 am
The NBA should be careful. With football, college and pro, no one might notice that they aren’t playing. 50% of something is better than 57% of ZERO.
Even if they start back, the shorten preseason means no real hope for improvement with the Hawks.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 11th, 2011
9:59 am
“The college game is so much more enjoyable to watch anyway.”
Oh yeah. Gotta love that 18.8% shooting in the national championship game.
moboman
October 11th, 2011
10:08 am
Let em sit out. NCAA hoops very entertaining and actually AFFORDABLE. Those of us in the real world, who wear our sneakers more than once, could care less. I might even watch some hockey on TV! Yawn!!! Wake up prima donna players, you aint that important. The ones I feel sorry for are the non-player employees affected by this. They are the ones that unfortunately will have to suffer until the players wake up and realize how good they have it. 50% not enough????? To hell with you.
Sautee
October 11th, 2011
10:15 am
Anybody wanna give an over / under for how many posts until they pull the commenting?
I’ll say110.
MC, I’m glad you still have a job. As long as you’re on the payroll, throw us an off-season bone every now and then.
Sautee
October 11th, 2011
10:17 am
I almost forgot…LOL@ Najeh!
Twice.
ILL-Logical
October 11th, 2011
10:29 am
Yes, this the begining of the end for the NBA as we have known it. The real issue is the 4 major market owners refused to subsidize their less financially able brethern- at least 3 of whom should have by all objective standards been consolidated out existence9 I’m looking at you NO,SAC and MN). With revenue sharing , there would be little need to require such a large give back to the players and the game would have survived and maybe even prospered based on recent trends.
But once again, greed and selfishness carried the day and the public is feed the usual pablum about the American way.
Whatever emerges from this media fueled scrum will be a mockery of professional basketball. The game will watered down product marketed to a narrow elite who wish to see well muscled, nearly naked negroes run up and down the court in video game fashion.The focus for the betting industry will be the over/ under and the feeder system, college basketball will expand conferences like the current football revenue driven conference re alignment.
The Hawks? A complete non factor, thanks to the ASG and their complete and utter incompetence.
Oh, welcome back MC.
doc
October 11th, 2011
10:30 am
been following yo on the tech isights mc. yup glad you are still around. only wish we could talk basketball but it isnt up to us.
right now, i sit back and wait for my full cash rebate plus the big 1%apr
. i wish all fans had signed up for that option instead of leaving their money in the coffers of the owners. with a season ticket pot to sit on they can wait.
whole season gone like in hockey a few years ago? maybe.
ant banks
October 11th, 2011
10:33 am
HEY Y’ALL!! I MISSED READIN’ THE POSTS.
does anyone know what effect a CANCELED season would have on a contract? if a player has a 5/80 mil deal, would a canceled season remove a year? or would we still owe that player a year? tryin’ to see if we can get a year off the jj deal
ant banks
October 11th, 2011
10:34 am
i really think that most teams would save more money buy not havin’ a season. the loss can still be written off on taxes, without havin’ to pay on a 100mil dollar pay roll
doc
October 11th, 2011
10:35 am
303 i agree, i dont want to pay for a watered down season so with a full return and no strings attached i am willing to wait this one out, watch some ncaa football i havent recently and reconnect to the college game. shoot i would have even taken in thrashers games but the basg stupidly sold the only game in town for the winter.
feel for the vendors, phillips personnel and restauranteurs their service folks around that section of town. not good.
doc
October 11th, 2011
10:39 am
najeh, heh heh, in classic mid season form without even pleading first. he must be thrashing it out on the falcons blog to stay so ready.
Brandon
October 11th, 2011
11:20 am
To all you idiots hoping they cancel the whole season think about this. The players and owners are not the only ones affected by this, there are people who work for the team, arenas, etc there are gonna be out of a job too.
J
October 11th, 2011
11:35 am
Najeh, you, my friend, have to be one of my favorite bloggers … tell it like it is with solid facts. And yes people, saying you’re alright with a season being missed is not fair to the employees who work for the teams.
J
October 11th, 2011
11:39 am
ILL-logical – that was a bunch of ranting. You ended by mentiong the Hawks & ASG … last i checked, there is a potential new owner in the mix. I don’t know about you, but that at least excites me some. Why focus on the past?
dap01
October 11th, 2011
11:56 am
The owners and the players should realize that no one cares about them. The owners would have not problem if they had some self control. The larger markets could care less about the less fortunate markets. The players union is just that a union.
Be careful NBA, you will be forgotten soooooo quick.
STRETCH
October 11th, 2011
12:38 pm
I do feel for the people working at the arenas cause its not like they are striking.
But, i could care less about these barely graduated high schoolers, college-dropout millionaires who go buy 23 room-12 bathroom houses, 250,000 dollar cars and who still cant shoot free throws and jump shots.
Its really funny how they get out of their Austin Martins, with the designer suits and 1000 dollar sun glasses when arriving at the CBA meetings while half of them have NO knowledge or understanding of the business side of sports.
Half of them will be broke or bankrupt in the years to come anyway cause they never learned how to manage anything. Like i said i do feel for staff members and personel working for these organizations.
But hey, they brought all this on themselves, management did. Its like feeding a child until he’s over weight and then you want to put a chain on the fridge.
wow
October 11th, 2011
12:42 pm
How long has it been since your last article?
Think the league can finally get a clause in the cba banning pot? IT’S ILLEGAL
It’s a league full of players with misconsrued ethics and law-breakers….
Therefore may they CANCEL the entire NBA FOREVER!
wow
October 11th, 2011
12:45 pm
@STRETCH…you forgot to add their love for the rap crap life. Which typically gets them NOWHERE but in jail.
STRETCH
October 11th, 2011
12:47 pm
Oh Yeah! Thanks…LOL!
Astro Joe
October 11th, 2011
1:01 pm
I predict that the Christmas Day televised games wil serve as the launch of the new season.
As a Hawks fan, I appreciate the league wanting to close the gap between owners like Dr. Buss, Mark Cuban and Dolan and folk like our soon-to-be-departed ASG. The old luxury tax was punitive enough to support a more balanced league from top to bottom. Joe was overpaid because the Hawks were ore interested in staying above averge than in dropping behind the likes of the Bobcats. But neither scenario really offered them a chance to actually improve because they weren’t going to come close to the payroll of teams like the Heat. If you don’t land that superstar in the draft, then you’re doomed to being a second tier team at best. As much as I will miss watching the game, I’m willing to wait in hopes that when it does resume, that there will be roster-building rules that will allow all teams to compete with each other (regardless of the wealth of the respective owners). Until then, I’ll watch the Falcons disappoint.
O'Brien
October 11th, 2011
1:11 pm
Doc,
whole season gone like in hockey a few years ago? maybe..
Exactly what I was thinking. Imagine that.
Hockey missed basically an entire season, and as a result, owners ended up closer to the system they wanted. I think NBA owners are prepared to miss an entire season, because most of them have other revenue streams.
What will players (and their families) do when they start missing game checks? Time will tell.
But I feel for those vendors, phillips personnel, restauranteurs, service folks etc who earn their living from basketball operations.
doc
October 11th, 2011
1:24 pm
yeah o’b, imagine that? heh heh
Vol4ever
October 11th, 2011
1:27 pm
That is fine for the season to be cancelled. After all the BS with the Hawks over the last 30 years I will not renew my season tickets this year or probably beyond. I will find something else to do with my time in the winter.
?
October 11th, 2011
1:28 pm
huh?
STRETCH
October 11th, 2011
1:34 pm
Mr O’Brien,
“What will players (and their families) do when they start missing game checks?”
Im just wondering, if the player for example makes 2 million a season, then if he missed a couple of checks its time to panic????
If thats the case, then maybe said player should cut back on his and maybe is wife’s spending dont you think?
Im just wondering
?
October 11th, 2011
1:36 pm
Those poor players will make it by from a small percentage of savings from previous insane pay……
Unless the idiots P’ed it away on bling.
?
October 11th, 2011
1:39 pm
Of course all their illegitiamte kids will have to go without for a while. But, reading the news, players aren’t too quick on their child support.
Astro Joe
October 11th, 2011
2:55 pm
Anyone know when the Euro Leagues start? I want to know when I can start reading boxscores about Pape Sy & Magnum Rolle. GO EURO-HAWKS!!!
Leo
October 11th, 2011
3:22 pm
I mostly feel sorry for the regular employees also. This is sad. I think both sides are very greedy.
I feel the stars make too much and the role players not enough. But I am just a fan so what do I know.
kirkinga
October 11th, 2011
3:22 pm
Hate the first games have been cancelled, but it’s looks like, with the exception of Minnesota, a favor for the Hawks.
Section 303
October 11th, 2011
3:30 pm
Did you guys see this video? I don’t know how to link on here, but I will past the web address. Two camera men started fighting outside the hotel where NBA/NBPA were meeting last night. Might be the worst fight I have ever seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9vzoOn2dig&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Mike is Back
October 11th, 2011
3:49 pm
What’s up MC, no surprise here…Hey, I’m really enjoying the hardwood classic on the NBA channel…it’s been a treat to see some of the NBA players I idolized talk about how it was going up against some of the legends in the game. Man you forget about the no names guys that gave so much to this game…it was all about team back then.
I’m not siding with the owners, because I think David Stern and owners created this mess…But too many NBA players take game for granted…maybe missing some games, or an entire season…isn’t such a bad thing.
O'Brien
October 11th, 2011
4:22 pm
STRETCH,
If thats the case, then maybe said player should cut back on his and maybe is wife’s spending dont you think?.
That’s what you and I would do. But time and time again, we have seen athletes end up going broke, because they are irresponsible with their money.
As more game checks are missed, will the players continue to stick together?
beone
October 11th, 2011
4:52 pm
Players have had it too good for too long. They just can’t believe that. The whole Lebron debacle pissed so many people off, there is no sympathy for the players in most quarters. I hope the whole season is lost personally.
FreshFromAtl
October 11th, 2011
4:53 pm
Eliminating those first few games may actually work in the Hawks favor.
Paddy
October 11th, 2011
4:57 pm
dap01…..you are right. NBA lost its real fan base years ago. This strike/lockout is not helping at all. Scattered pockets of fans but not enough to stop the league wide bleeding. It is a shame. It used to be a real sport!
ILL-Logical
October 11th, 2011
5:38 pm
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/10/11/exclusive-details-of-owners-tax-proposal/?sct=hp_t2_a5&eref=sihp
Najeh Davenpoop
October 11th, 2011
6:19 pm
“Eliminating those first few games may actually work in the Hawks favor.”
True. There’s a good chance they would have gone 2-4 in the cancelled games.
Crazy Pizza Lady
October 11th, 2011
7:03 pm
Wise up playas. don’t kill the golden goose. you know yo momma doesn’t approve!
stop the greed!
Earl
October 11th, 2011
8:06 pm
@j……There are 5 times as many football players on a team compared to a basketball team. Wouldn’t it stand to reason that there would be more. Hmmmmm
KevinM
October 11th, 2011
10:23 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
October 11th, 2011
6:19 pm
“Eliminating those first few games may actually work in the Hawks favor.”
True. There’s a good chance they would have gone 2-4 in the cancelled games.
As much as I agree, they definitely would not have been better then 3-3, which is what we will get from LD when these guys return playing.
I am indifferent to whether I want to see this thing resolved any time soon. I gotta think that a market like Atl probably will not miss the NBA this much. The owners have really mucked up the process this time.
The difference is 53 players vs. 50 percent in what the owners are suggesting? They why in the HAIL can’t we just split the difference and get this thing resolved?
Some things I guess we aren’t supposed to understand…….and Marvin gets that much longer to work on his game this summer. We all know he needs it!
J
October 12th, 2011
8:40 am
@ Earl – and when was the last time an NBA player committed a murder hmmmm
J
October 12th, 2011
8:43 am
@ Earl – and doesn’t SportsCenter only really care about glorifying the Red Sox and Yankees? Kind of biased. I care about the NBA and i love basketball. I sit hear and listen to people like yourself and other idiots bash the NBA but take a blindeye to what goes on with other pro-teams. Yeah, i get it, you don’t like the NBA so get off this blog. It doesn’t apply to people who don’t even attend the games. Thanks!
ctrim
October 12th, 2011
9:21 am
If the NFL can do non guaranteed contracts then so can the NBA. I have no problem with what the players make as long as they can be held accountable.
J
October 12th, 2011
10:24 am
agreed ctrim
STRETCH
October 12th, 2011
12:11 pm
Mr O’Brien,
Thats what i was thinking. Its sad that these young athletes get all this money and blow it on stupid things and then they are featured in ESPN magazine broke.
Just the other day there was a defensive back that played with the Ravens(forget his name) who signed a 55 mil contract 6 years ago and now he is broke living with his parents.
He has petitioned the court to reduce his 11K/monthly child support payments. 11K??? How does that happen? It just goes to show that everybody is money hungry no matter what they are doing.
These guys get out there and spend, spend, spend and then, boom! When you are spending that kinda money a month on a child, you cant be spending like that. And besides…WHAT CHILD NEEDS 11K A MONTH??
POOLCUE
October 12th, 2011
1:18 pm
YO ANY OF YOU UNEMPLOYED B.B. PLAYERS KNOW HOW TO PLAY BASEBALL? CONTACT BRAVES OR PHILLIES.
J
October 12th, 2011
1:41 pm
stretch, i agree … i think the child support system is messed up in general but it’s also the players fault for not going back to court and getting that child support restructered since he’s making less. BUT, what child needs 11K a month to survive? A child needs clothing & food, plus health insurance and then any extra curricular costs. Last i checked, $400-$600/month covered that. These athletes are not smart with money, most of them didn’t have a sound upbringing on money matters, and then come into a lot of cash and all their friends/family have their hands out and then they spend it on cars/houses/etc. I can’t blame them though. Put yourself in their shoes, they are teenagers, or fresh out of high school making millions. They only know what they see, and they see other NBA players spending mad cash. I bet if we were making that type of money and only knew what they knew, we would probably blow some of it on thigns we don’t really need. Then again, we don’t have that luxury. I at least had a great upbringing and was taught the value of a dollar at an early age. Guess maybe my parents should have taught me the value of a Canadian dollar, with the way the US dollar is going these days.
Geemack
October 12th, 2011
2:41 pm
No matter when the season starts, as a Hawks we know it will end in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs.
Nothing on this team to be excited about.
Those basketball emotion are reserved for Lakers & Celtics fans.
KevinM
October 12th, 2011
2:47 pm
I agree with Geemack; why worry about this upcoming season when you know what the Hawks will work with….there aren’t going to be any big moves. They are cap-strapped AND talent-strapped!
Our 3 captains will only take you so far.
I think college basketball will fill any void quite nicely.
Section 303
October 12th, 2011
2:53 pm
KevinM, I don’t think you guys are right. The Hawks probably will/would make a move. I still think Josh Smith will be traded. It will have to wait for next September/October (no season this year), but I’m still willing to bet the Hawks make that move.
C'mon Man
October 12th, 2011
3:52 pm
NBA basketball, is just entertainment. They are other venues you can stuff your money into for pure enjoyment. Both sides are losers, but fans who give their last dimes to support these financial geniuses are the real losers.
Let’s get together and play Spades, throw down some Bones, or just have a NBA Lockout Block Party.
C’mon Man!
Astro Joe
October 12th, 2011
4:29 pm
Hard to believe that the new owner will spend more than a season before making a slew of changes (starting with the GM and Head Coach). The sooner this season starts, the quicker Meruelo can place his mark on the team. (Of course, that assumes the new owner is an improvement over the old owners… which should NOT be assumed).
Geemack
October 12th, 2011
5:03 pm
C’mon Man
I down with the spades….Lol.
It’s a lot more to life than basketball. This is a perfect opportunity to put the crack pipe down (NBA). You may realize it’s not as necessary as they make it seems
Grandad
October 12th, 2011
6:16 pm
Mr cunningham,
Since you most probably have quit reading by now …
I’ll not expect an answer.
-But-
Will the blog be regular now or just a sometimes occurrence ?
I am truly pleased that you remain employed.
Basketball news continues to happen, whether the AJC chooses to
keep the good people of Atl informed or not..
MC – you said college fb was a part of what was keeping you busy?
Yet I follow college fb daily & have somehow missed your byline ?
JSS
October 12th, 2011
7:31 pm
It won’t be a real Hawks blog till Big Ray, Niremetal, the crazy hater from Iberian peninsula, and Rod from College Park (AKA Marvin is a bum) checks in!!!
@ Michael Cunningham…
I’m interested in a non-NBA observation. So after getting to cover the Dream in their run to the Finals, what do you think of them, and what went wrong in the Finals?
jhan
October 12th, 2011
8:37 pm
What about Jayson Williams & Javaris Crittendon? Think they both committed murder.
JSS
October 12th, 2011
9:15 pm
@ 8:37PM
Reason why some people need the legal mind of Niremetal around…
jhan… Go look up involuntary manslaughter, then look-up conspiracy to conceal evidence…
Regarding Crittenden, touchy subject but “he’s accused of committing a murder.” If you want to get off on such things in bashing the NBA (Williams was retired by the way), look-up Ty Cobb, Rae Carruth, O.J. Simpson, and Jared Britton… Just saying…
MOVE TO SEATTLE PLEASE !!!!!!
October 13th, 2011
12:01 am
Who cares about THUG basketball, Would NEVER attend a game, But the Question IS…
When will this “new” owner MOVE this WORTHLESS franchise to Seattle ????
Atlanta does not need this CRAP sport in this town.
Go Away nba FOREVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JL
October 13th, 2011
2:17 am
Back in the 97′ draft many of us where dissapointed that we picked Al Horford instead of Mike Conley. 4 years later, 2 Rookie-softmore trips, 2-ASG elections, a 3rd All NBA team mention, and being elected the 25th best NBA player (according to ESPN) gladly made us eat our words. Shout out to a guy that came to the league with a limited ceiling, but has overcome his limitations to improve every year.
JL
October 13th, 2011
2:17 am
Sorry, 07′ draft
O'Brien
October 13th, 2011
7:23 am
KevinM,
Our 3 captains will only take you so far..
It will be interesting to see if LD goes with 3 captains again, because that did not work last year. I say let the players vote for one captain, or LD can nominate somebody. Of the 3, I think Al is the best choice.
O'Brien
October 13th, 2011
7:25 am
303,
I don’t think there will be any changes to the Hawks. I think the new owner will let Rick and LD finish out their year, and then he will decide next year whether or not he wants to bring them back.
And with Josh expiring in 2 years, I think they will keep him this year as well. However, a lot will depend on the new CBA.
Grandad
October 13th, 2011
7:44 am
If and when we / they get back to businesss …
we will have a very short off-season to do actual basketball work;
such as “Free Agency” & “team building”.
Sund, who is deliberate at best, may have his plan formulated by season’s end.
The Hawks can only hope for the same old, same old … because Sund …
will not be ready to move nor act quickly. “Alas, no Battier” ! … No Big !
Perhaps the lockout will last long enough for Sund to just go on and retire.
No trades – no FA’s – we can only hope they vote Alex in before the lockout ends.
Geemack
October 13th, 2011
8:55 am
Ronnie Lester assistant GM with the Lakers is available.
He was with them for over 20 years. He learned from Jerry West and Mitch Kupchak.
Brian Shaw won 5 rings with the Lakers (3 as a player 2 as a assistant coach).
Rick Sund’s has done a good in keeping the team competitive, but his best days as a GM are behind him. He has an excellent basketball mind, so keep him around as a a consultant.
Larry Drew did the same thing as Mike Woodson, and the team achieved the same results.
Geemack
October 13th, 2011
9:06 am
JL
The disappointment was in the mismanagement of the draft picks. Nothing against Horford, but if we drafted the need for a PG the year before (CP3), the Hawks are competing for a ring without Horford. Josh, CP3, & JJ can run with the elite teams in the east and west.
Even with all Horford’s accomplished, were still no better than a 4th seed and a 2nd round playoff exit.
Astro Joe
October 13th, 2011
9:53 am
MC, thanks for the article on the Hawks and their pick-up games. I’m sure those are fun to watch. Pictures could be deceiving, but Joe’s arms looked a little more defined than I remeber. I’m glad that Josh was stretching because at first I thought he was reacting to an injury.
The two idiot sides are bringing in a mediator to help with negotiations, that seems like a very good sign (even if talsk won’t start until next week).
KevinM
October 13th, 2011
10:17 am
It’s time for the owners and the players to get this deal done after so much negative press. Come to a split between 53 and 50 and get it done!
Quit wasting the opportunity to build up some momentum for the upcoming season and let’s restart the LBJ/DWade watch to the trophy.
OB and 303, I can say yes, trade Josh if you are going to play him at the 3. If you put him back where he belongs, then I say you are making a huge mistake.
And I don’t see anyone losing their captain status. LD screwed up doing this in the first place. He should have captain’d Marvin because he’s the one who needs to be held to the highest standard. No one else on this team came into the league with the hype Marvin did.
And where is our #2 full-of-potential pick these days? I don’t hear his name being mentioned in these ‘church’ games? Is he back playing against no-NBAers to keep up his confidence?
And no matter what happens, we are still only 3rd best in our own division. The expectations will be the same as they have been the past years.
KevinM
October 13th, 2011
10:29 am
I should have said if you don’t put Josh back in the post, you are making a huge mistake. He has proved his talent isn’t on the perimeter.
drmaryb.(*_*).
October 13th, 2011
12:39 pm
Sure Shot!
Josh will NEVER stop draining those pretty 3’s as long as Coach Drew is here. NEVER! LOL!
drmaryb.(*_*).
October 13th, 2011
12:47 pm
Sure Shot!
… And as long as The Boss is passing it to him outa’ the post with 5 seconds left on the shot clock! Hmmm …
Par for the course?
doc
October 13th, 2011
1:02 pm
mc second the astro take above, thanks and i think there is nothing more than what you would rather do than to cover the nba rather than college football but thanks for those pieces on the bees man.
the powers that be give you direction and you must follow it even if you cant say it here to stay employed. some people act like you have personally made the decision and took free candy from their mouths. hope their sanity and all players and owners finally surfaces again.
O'Brien
October 13th, 2011
2:34 pm
KevinM,
Come to a split between 53 and 50 and get it done!.
The players are going to say they already reduced their percentage from 57 to 53, so why should they go down to 51 ½.
He should have captain’d Marvin because he’s the one who needs to be held to the highest standard..
1) What happens when Marvin doesn’t start?
2) Being held to a high standard with a lot of expectations does not make one a good leader.
Say what you want about Marvin, but he is that much closer to completing his college degree
J
October 13th, 2011
2:36 pm
@Move to seattle please … that’s also great advice for yourself
J
October 13th, 2011
2:45 pm
@jhan – jayson williams was how long ago? you got me on jcritt, even though he hasn’t been proved guilty (technically, do we even consider him an nba player due to his suspension from the league?). Then again, JCritt was from GaTech and we know how many muggings there are at GaTech these days. I’m sure he needed the gun
.
Grandad
October 13th, 2011
3:32 pm
If they put in the amnesty clause;
or should I say when they do,
Marvin is the logical choice to -GO-.
However, it willl be a one time get out of jail free card,
to rid ourselves of Joe’s albatross of a contract.
This is a time for creativity and if yawl remember …
[Sund traded Childress for a TPE that was never used].
He cannot let the amnesty just roll by w/o using it wisely.
You may ask;
How are those two aforementioned scnarios the same ?
They are – only in the sense that Sund tends to sit on his assets,
therefore letting opportunities vanish.
drmaryb.(*_*).
October 13th, 2011
3:44 pm
Done Deal!
The only thing I want to hear re: The Hawks is that the ink is dried on the dotted line and Alex Meruelo’s moving van is pulling into the garage of the executive offices.
Will someone please wipe the ASKG butt prints off the windows of the high rise? It’s foggy up there and there’s no sun light coming in.
When that happens, then I wanna see a swift boat jetting down stream with Sund, Drew and the 6 un-signable bench role players heading as far away from Atlanta as they can go.
Siberia? That sounds about right. LOL!
This town, this city and these fans? We don’t need no losers, we need a winner – man!
Astro Joe
October 13th, 2011
5:15 pm
Grandad, if they offer amnesty, don’t expect the Hawks to use it as that one-time clause only favors the most wealthy owners. Even if we’re talking about Marvin, that would require paying him about $22M to leave, only to turn around and pay another SF money to comeon board. So if the new SF costs $15M over 3 years, then effectively the Hawks are paying around $12.5M for their SF over 3 years. While that doesn’t count toward the cap, it does count as real money leaving the funding pot. The cost are evn more significant if you’re talking about Joe. Again, only those owners with deep pockets and strong operating margins will likely opt for an amnesty deal (if one is available).
Astro Joe
October 13th, 2011
5:15 pm
Have you all seen this article on the imminent owner?
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/jackson-111012/atlanta-hawks-alex-meruelo-first-hispanic-owner-nba-faces-great-opportunity-responsibility
drmaryb.(*_*).
October 13th, 2011
8:22 pm
Hand over Fist!
Hello AJ Baby!
Thanks for dropping that Meruelo linK. The best article re: Alex I have read so far and to date. How about that “Hand over Fist” handshake from Nique to Alex.
You can tell a lot about a man from his hand shake. Nique is saying, “Pay a Brother some Cheezits and I will deliver the goods!” Poor Nique’ he got bills to pay. Yawl know his family drained his pockets way back when he had a few nickels to rub together.
Gerald Wilkins was brilliant! He changed his phone NIMBERS every time it leaked out, especially on the 1st & 15th of each month. Word on the street was Gerald was not Bank of America to the family, unlike Nique. LOL!
Anyway, come on Mr. Meruelo! Clean house and start fresh! Get a Real GM/Coach! LOL!
___________________
Thanks AJ! Keep the links coming, bruh. (she winks)
O'Brien
October 13th, 2011
9:24 pm
DMB,
I think ‘Nique is glad that the BASG are not majority owners anymore.
AJ,
Again, only those owners with deep pockets and strong operating margins will likely opt for an amnesty deal (if one is available)..
Agreed. however, the link to the Meruelo article also says he has An estimated net worth of around $14.5 billion, according to some reports..
Even those reports are exaggerated, and he is only worth 1/4 of that, that still puts him at 3.6 billion. He should have deep pockets.
Hoops
October 13th, 2011
9:25 pm
Ho Hum….. All of the millionaires are arguing about their greed. It’s too bad that they know nothing about how the real world lives. I hope they don’t forget who pays to watch their games.
Why not take the 6% (difference between 47% and 53%) split that seems to be holding up an agreement between the players union and the league and donate it to the school systems in each state that are represented by an NBA team? At least the kids of their state would be benefiting from their greed!
Blind faith
October 13th, 2011
9:28 pm
Meruelo please buy100% of team and put ASG out forever. No more crocodile tears from Gearon or levenson on sidelines. Free our town.
drmaryb.(*_*).
October 13th, 2011
10:22 pm
Co Sign That!
OBrien – LOL! Fo Sho Nuff …. et.al.
drmaryb.(*_*).
October 13th, 2011
10:49 pm
Wassup Fellas?
So nice to use my own user I’d for as long as it lasts anyways.
Let’s Go Hawks!
Let’s Go Falcons!
Braves Gone! (smh)
Let’s Go Alex!
Big Ump
October 13th, 2011
11:14 pm
It’s good to see some of the regulars back.in the house.
Shout out to Doc, Grandad, Astro Joe, Ant Banks Section 303, Najeh Davenpoo, Kirkinga, Mike is Back, Grandmaster Je Je, Sautee, and my main girl drmaryb.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 14th, 2011
1:03 am
Hey, you know what the Hawks should do with the amnesty? Use it on Horford, and then go out and trade for Hasheem Thabeet and Donatas Motiejunas! That will make them championship contenders for sure! If you are interested, I can offer you five pages of meaningless and irrelevant stats and pretend they back up my opinion.
Buddy Grizzard
October 14th, 2011
4:12 am
And so it ends… comments closing in 3… 2… 1…
drmaryb.(*_*).
October 14th, 2011
5:43 am
A Murder in The Garden!
Didn’t Cain murder his blood brother Able in The Garden of Eden! Now Washington is on crack! Herman Cain trying to murder “Job – Able” people all over the USA.
Don’t we need a “Job” to be “Able” to make ends meet in America? Put these NBA employees back to work in America! Are they really un-able to split a dollar amongst themselves for the love of basketball?
53% vs 47%? I mean really? In lower Manhattan today they will begin to arrest peaceful protesters who OWS. And hold themselves out to be 99% of the poorest unemployed Americans who are tired of Billionaires on Wall Street taking more and more until there is nothing left to fight over?
I mean why take our pastimes of entertainment that allow us to take a break from the reality of the new hopelessness of living an American Dream. The American Dream has become our very own nightmare! Labor and Civil unions are under attack all over the world. When the NBA players strat missing those bally-hooed paychecks, their luxury homes and cars and bling? Then they will know what we all on this blog know!
Having a real job to go to Monday through Friday is a gift and not some inherent birth right of the privileged few in society. Where will it end? Making 120M to dribble the air out of a basketball is a rare privilege people!
It is not the norm in most of our world of reality. By the time the NBA lockout is over – Will we still care?
Hmmmm …. What the hell is really going on here? Is the free world coming to an end over 53 vs 47 percent?
drmaryb.(*_*).
October 14th, 2011
5:43 am
A Murder in The Garden!
Didn’t Cain murder his blood brother Able in The Garden of Eden! Now, Washington is on crack! Herman Cain is trying to murder a “Job” & an “Able” – all over the USA todAy – people!
Don’t we need a “Job” to be “Able” to make ends meet in America? Put these NBA employees back to work in America! Are they really un-able to split a dollar amongst themselves for the love of basketball?
53% vs 47%? I mean really? In lower Manhattan today they will begin to arrest peaceful protesters who OWS. And hold themselves out to be 99% of the poorest unemployed Americans who are tired of Billionaires on Wall Street taking more and more until there is nothing left to fight over?
I mean why take our pastimes of entertainment that allow us to take a break from the reality of the new hopelessness of living an American Dream. The American Dream has become our very own nightmare! Labor and Civil unions are under attack all over the world. When the NBA players start missing those bally-hooed paychecks, their luxury homes and cars and bling? Then they will know what we all on this blog know!
Having a real job to go to Monday through Friday is a gift and not some inherent birth right of the privileged few in society. Where will it end? Making 120M to dribble the air out of a basketball is a rare privilege people!
It is not the norm in most of our world of reality. By the time the NBA lockout is over – Will we still care?
Hmmmm …. What the hell is really going on here? Is the free world coming to an end over 53 vs 47 percent?
If you see a broke billionaire crying – do you really feel compelled to bail him out? Not!
drmaryb.(*_*).
October 14th, 2011
5:49 am
Sorry for the double post there. Having BBerry issues this morning. LOL!
drmaryb.(*_*).
October 14th, 2011
7:21 am
* 1st post has typos … LOL!
Have a nice day fellas. Falcons – Rise Up! Hawks – go to work! Let’s Go!
stendek
October 14th, 2011
8:45 am
Greetings Michael. Do not miss loser Hawks one bit. That said. Want all to share in my sheer joy.
http://stendek.tumblr.com/post/11433345890/thrasherjets-blow-two-goal-lead-to-remain-winless
Life is good!
Have a great one pal.
Mike is Back
October 14th, 2011
8:55 am
Dmb, at this point Stern is playing cat and mouse with the players and the fans…he is hoping the apathy of the fans will force the player’s hand.
Mr. Stern please spar us the dog and pony show…WITH THIS…my gut feeling crap. JUST say I’m waiting on the players to fold…jeeeeeeeeeeze.lol
Grandad
October 14th, 2011
10:19 am
For Astro Joe and others:
Point # 1 – [borrowing a concept from Bill simmons]
A forward tthinking GM can use the amnesty clause in more ways than one.
Bill simmons suggests we trade Joe to ORL for Turk & Redick;
amnesty Turk and keep Redick thus shedding Joe’s contract.
Yes we pay off Turk’s contract (1 yr) but save a beaucoup of money in the long run.
Point # 2 – Develop a Winning Culture;
Git rid of Marvin, once and for all, then sign Battier.
Mindset = Win Now Baby ! … -or- … Just win Baby ! -with respect to Al Davis-
There are other scenarios that would enhance the team + aid the $ bottom line $.
However, I thought it was about winning games ! ! ! … & …. Championships … ???
Astro Joe
October 14th, 2011
10:41 am
Grandad, you thought wrong. It is about making money first and foremost. Sorry, but if I ran a dry cleaners, I’d be far more interested in turning a profit than winning some Clean Garment Award. Of course, the award (in theory) should drive more business. But my goal when I go to work everyday would be to turn a profit.
As a fan, I’d love to see my owner spend every penny on trying to win a title… leave no inheritance to his kids, stop donating funds to charity, eat ketchup sandwiches if he has to… just spend on winning a title. That just isn’t very realistic and generally not how these guys earned their wealth in the first place.
Astro Joe
October 14th, 2011
10:52 am
Actually, Grandad, it is likely less about making money and more about not bleeding money. Still, amnesty is a short-term fix that may or may not lead to long-term success. At this point, Battier is not going to be the difference between the Hawks winning a title in the next 2 years or not. IMO, the new owner needs to gut the team and not try to employ short-term solutions. The ones suggested above feel like incremental moves that may result in a better 2nd round loss. Sorry, that doesn’t really interest me. I’m all for a winning culture, I don’t see how slight changes can drive a cultural change with this stale core of players.
Mike is Back
October 14th, 2011
10:52 am
What up Big Ump!!!
I’ll take any type amnesty to move that dreaded contract. heh heh
chuck
October 14th, 2011
3:40 pm
I have zero interest in watching any sport that doesn’t have a hard salary cap so the playing field is even. That is the reason that so many fans enjoy the NFL. A Detroit can go from terrible to undefeated in two seasons. MLB needs to fix this also.
I hope the owners hold out for a hard cap as well as whatever percentage cut is necessary in the percentage of salary to make the owners a modest (say 5-10%) profit on average. That will keep markets like Atlanta from having such ownership issues. We don’t need the Hawks going to another city like the hockey team. Why anyone would want to own a business that was certainly going to lose money is a mystery to me.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
October 14th, 2011
5:02 pm
“Back in the 97′ draft many of us where dissapointed that we picked Al Horford instead of Mike Conley. 4 years later, 2 Rookie-softmore trips, 2-ASG elections, a 3rd All NBA team mention, and being elected the 25th best NBA player (according to ESPN) gladly made us eat our words. “
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
October 14th, 2011
5:08 pm
“Back in the 97′ draft many of us where dissapointed that we picked Al Horford instead of Mike Conley. 4 years later, 2 Rookie-softmore trips, 2-ASG elections, a 3rd All NBA team mention, and being elected the 25th best NBA player (according to ESPN) gladly made us eat our words. “
Well, I agree that Al is playing soft more but he didn’t in his second season.
doc
October 14th, 2011
7:00 pm
big ump it looks like we are all here except the nba. still not sure i will get excited about a watered down schedule and pretend it is real.
A concerned fan..
October 14th, 2011
7:49 pm
It’s been some time.
gail
October 14th, 2011
8:39 pm
Maybe it is time these NBA players learn to live like the people who are making it possible for them to get them these huge multi million dollar contracts. I’m talking about just hard working people like myself, who really enjoy just going to NBA games and watching the players play. I don’t live in a mansion, and I only have one car in my gargage, and I try to live on a budget.
Big Ump
October 14th, 2011
8:51 pm
Doc
I feel the same as you do.
doc
October 14th, 2011
9:06 pm
big ump, of course you do as you are a pretty smart guy …. heh heh.
doc
October 14th, 2011
9:27 pm
gail, if we could only know that the owners would feel the same way as you seem to want of the players and if they get what they want then they stop increasing costs to the common guy that supports their product. please, i dont think it is about them losing money. sterling is a billionaire and he has never put a competitive product on the floor and if he wasnt required to spend a certain amount of money that is required in the cba then he would spend less.he is a poster chile for the egregious mnature of owners that also were here that you seem to poverlook in putting players in your crosshairs. without players their is no product.
there are 14 billionaires as owners in the nba and maybe 15 when and if the new owner is accepted by the league. these guys are as greedy as wall street and are protected by the guys in washington that make laws. just like the idea of too big too fail but without consequences legally to those that bypassed good common business practice and pushed laws to the limit and get away with it, these nba owners are asking to be protected from poor business practices while charging us for “entertainment” dollars, not competitive quality. again this is not a business and they are protected and essentially have a monopoly rather than a competitive business; this is not business but it is about making money.
gail, it is not about the players making too much money nor assuring competitive balance, i assure you. it is about how to share the profits of the business among themselves, minimize it to the players and not give one concern to lowering how much fans have to pay to watch the game at the grass roots. i also assure that owners will act in collusion instead of against each other to increase their bottom line. they are their own each others enemy because of their poor decision making and that is what they are asking to be protected against.
Grandad
October 15th, 2011
6:29 am
Astro Joe:
You make good points;
however, fans do not -pay- to see the owner count his money.
Plus, when folks go to [ahem] -your- “dry cleaners” they -pay-
tto get their clothes clean……Real Clean…..not just a little bit clean,
not half clean, but all the way clean.
If I’m runnin’ your dry cleaning bus., then I’m gonna run the best …
dang dry cleaning store in town.
People will call me:
“Pierre the Dry Cleaner”
and it will be a champion dry cleaning business. *(Pride)
The two scenarios above were only two out of many possibilities.
My point is … if you sit on Marv’s contract … then … you become:
rick sund, l a clips, atl hawks, the kc royals, vanderbilt fb, or
Matthew 25:18.
But an organization with a Winning Culture becomes:
The LA lakers, Boston Celtics, SA Spurs, NY Yankees, GB Packers,
NE Patriots, Alabama fb, NC basketball, KY basketball, Coca Cola.
Of the above Organizations; which would you choose to buy stock ?
Grandad
October 15th, 2011
6:44 am
Grandad’s wisdom of the day:
John Pemberton inexplicably sold his recipe for Coca Cola
after years of research and perfection, dying soon after.
Later, his wife died a pauper.
jhan
October 15th, 2011
11:23 am
I heard Sekou say every % = $40M on the radio the other day. Looks like they are about $240M away from each other. This will take awhile!
I MUS WRITE
October 15th, 2011
12:50 pm
Whats up everybody! Good to see sum familliar names. Am I the only one who doesnt really care if there is an NBA season- Thought I would miss it but nope -Im all about my football, I hope they get a deal done i need something to do in February.
NaNaNaNa, NaNaNaNa,Hey, Heeey Goodbye
October 15th, 2011
12:53 pm
Stoners can have more pot with NBA gone…tattoo shops might go out of business. I got an old branding iron
they can use….basically same thing ain’t it.
I MUS WRITE
October 15th, 2011
12:55 pm
Sec303….I saw this the other day lol. Worst attempted fight Ive ever seen. My girl could take both of them – she got hands for real. Dam shame
zzzzzzzz
October 15th, 2011
1:22 pm
I’m glad b-ball is here….I can catch up on my sleep….what? they’re not playing! happy, happy, joy, joy….the women and children don’t have to hide!
New rules
October 15th, 2011
1:30 pm
All players are required to become eunichs before high school to have any opportunity of entering league…how bad do you want to play ball? Still want the fortune and fame?….league will still let you smoke away to your hearts content…they don’t care about ILLEGAL activity.
doc
October 15th, 2011
1:34 pm
jhan split the difference for the compromise and it is more 120 to 160 mil difference one way or the other. i know it isnt my money but ultimately if you split it between the owners then it is “only” 3.5 mil a year. that is a pittance for these guys to play hard ball for. again these guys are filthy wealthy to where as when they snore three mil probably shows up on the balance sheet without trying. they will show us how greedy they are.
A league of their own....stoners
October 15th, 2011
1:35 pm
Just say no to tats….one of the most asinine things an idiot does to his (or more disgustingly..her) body. But that’s one reason they’re idiots.
A league of their own....stoners
October 15th, 2011
1:41 pm
Darn, if DEA wants to crush the drugs…..follow the players and their sources. shouldn’t be too hard.
put away the players, rappers, and all the pseudo-celebrities…knock out hollyweird at same time.
A concerned fan..
October 15th, 2011
1:47 pm
The NBAPA can’t even agree on deal. Here we come 12-13 season.
doc
October 15th, 2011
9:56 pm
d wade:
“To me, it’s not about who has the most chips,” Wade added. “I think it’s about who manages their chips the right way. That’s why I think we have a management problem. Small markets have won championships. San Antonio is a very small market and they have four championships in the last 10 years or whatever the case may be. So I don’t know how you ever fix it unless you have realistic goals. It has to get a little more realistic and right now, it’s not.”
we know mismanaged chips, now dont we, in the big a?
doc
October 15th, 2011
10:05 pm
d wade also says:
“Not at one point have we asked for more money,” Wade said. “I’ve heard people say ‘The players are being greedy.’ How are we being greedy? … People need to get in a room and understand what really needs to be done so everyone— not just the owners, not just the players—can continue to grow with the game. That’s where we’ve got to come to an agreement.”
you know they arent asking for more from their previous cut, only to try and hold some of their previous gains. owners havent opened their books to scrutiny as fans would howl at the excess and accounting games that are played.
just the same i would rather see contracts limited as a way to increase competitiveness or become not guaranteed past a certain point. i am not anymore interested in harnessing what they should get as this is america and one that fosters that spirit. dont pay rooks crazy and dont pay for long term contracts if their skills and desire wanes, then let the cards fall where they may based on how the chips are managed. let the owners be as accountable as the working guy that has to stay in top 25% in his company to keep his job in the real world. owners should have to try as well which some like sterling and our own divorce queen basg are notorious for not doing.
Worldwide Clyde
October 15th, 2011
10:42 pm
*yawn*
Big Ray
October 16th, 2011
4:30 am
I really liked the article about the Hawks (and other NBA players) playing in old church gyms.
Classic scene – Joe Johnson backing Josh Smith down in the lane, Jeff Teague calling for the ball (and getting ignored), Joe shooting the fadeaway jumper.
1) Josh still can’t guard a jumpshot.
2) Joe will still ignore others in favor of the fadeaway jumper.
3) Teague probably still can’t shoot reliably from the outside.
and last but not least….
4) all of the above being totally irrelevant due to the NBA trying to do what the NFL successfully did……
This NBA season is screwed.
Big Ray
October 16th, 2011
4:34 am
Heh…I can’t believe I even got that comment in…
Changes r a cumin
October 16th, 2011
10:36 am
Think St Louis wants their NBA team back at all?
Changes r a cumin
October 16th, 2011
10:44 am
BTW….players will fold when babies mommas aint gettin their monthly chack anymore…….unemployed and in jail for failure to pay is no way to go through life.