Atlanta Hawks: The 2011-12 schedule, just in case
There is no league business because of the lockout but there is a schedule. There have been no bargaining session between owners and players since last month but let’s be optimistic and assume the schedule will go off as planned and the Hawks will open Nov. 2 at Minnesota.
Usually there would be some major free-agent signings by now and there would be a better sense of how teams might stack up. As it stands now, the Hawks have just seven players with guaranteed contracts for next season. By comparison, Miami has nine players with guaranteed deals (assuming no one is going to make a run at restricted-free agent Mario Chalmers), Chicago has nine players, Boston has seven (assuming Jeff Green stays put) and Orlando has 10.
But all five of the East’s top teams can pretty much return with their cores intact (with perhaps Orlando as an exception since J-Rich will be a free agent). So here’s a quick look at some schedule highlights for the Hawks:
- Last season Atlanta’s early schedule was grueling, if not by quality (of opponents) then quantity (of games). This time they only play 13 games in October/November with just two sets of back-to-backs.But nine of those 13 games are against playoff teams, including road games vs. Chicago, Orlando and Miami and home games vs. Dallas and Boston.
- The busy stretch is in March, when the Hawks play 17 games with 11 on the road and six sets of back-to-backs. They close out the month with eight games in 12 days.
- The Hawks are scheduled to play a total of 20 sets of back-to-back games. They are to play four games in five nights on two occasions and have 11 stretches of three games in four nights.
- For the third consecutive season the Hawks will play on Thanksgiving Day on TNT. They have seven other games scheduled for national TV, all on ESPN.
- The MLK Day opponent is Toronto on Jan. 16.
- Weekday games at Philips Arena are set to start at 7:30 p.m.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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200 comments Add your comment
Ken Strickland
July 22nd, 2011
6:39 pm
CPaul is a very talented and exciting player. However, since being drafted by the Hornets 6yrs ago, he’s led his team to only 3 winning seasons. AHorford has been a Hawk for 4yrs, and we’ve made the playoffs each of those 4yrs, as well as 3 consecutive trips to the Eastern Conference semifinals.
CPaul has reached his peak and is as good as he’s going to get. And with his knee issues, he just might end up regressing a lot sooner than anyone would like. AHorford has improved each yr he’s been in the NBA, and is a current Allstar and All NBA CENTER that has yet to reach his max potential.
Only a damned fool would consider an NBA team that’s made the playoffs 4 consecutive yrs, ranked as high as 3rd in the conference, and advanced to the Eastern Conference semifinals 3 consecutive yrs, losers. Only a damned fool would suggest a team with rebounding issues trade it’s center and leading rebounder for a fragile PG who has yet to demonstrate he can carry a team and win consistently.
Mike is back
July 22nd, 2011
6:44 pm
AJ, I’m a say Rolle and Benson gon give us more…if they get the opportunity. I don’t know much about Rolle…but he has been getting some endorsements from some BIG DAWGS I respect on the blog…so I gotta think he can play. Benson, talent wise…is farther a lone…then both the aforementioned guys. However, it want matter if they don’t get a chance to play.
We need to do a better job of creating opportunities in the DLeague…so these young guys can continue to develop…while they are waiting for an opportunity…to contribute on the NBA level. It not acceptable to continue to let these guys rot on the bench for an entire season…when you know you are not going to play them…HAVE a backup plan to develop your young talent.
There has to be more commitment to developing the talent you have.
Man, some you guys that continue to hurl insults at Al…will eat some crow. The point is not that AL is not deserving…JUST we don’t need to get pimped for Josh…CUZ that’s what going to happen.
Absent a trade for D12…YOU GOING to need Josh shot blocking…who ever else you get…so that Dallas deal…ain’t a slam dunk.
When you consider the type of injuries AL was dealing with…YEAH…I’d say AL is going is shove some crow down a few people throat…when ever the lockout is over.
The article said the Hawks sell is on the fast track…it will be interesting to hear what the incoming investor’s perspective on the team is…in fact they may have already voice their opinion to ASG…who knows…THAT WHATZUP!!!
Slimjr
July 22nd, 2011
7:04 pm
75.5hrs and still up running? Impressive Mr. MC!
The Real Mandingo
July 22nd, 2011
7:28 pm
Message to Marvin Williams:
Since Sancho Lyttle is injured and Angel McCoughtry desperately needs a backup, please have your agent schedule a tryout with the Atlanta Dream. If you perform well in your tryout, the Dream could sign you to a couple of 10-day contracts before signing you for the remainder of the WNBA season. The Dream needs a role player who can come off the bench and provide energy, defense, hustle, rebounding, and light scoring.
Pros for Marvin Williams playing for the Dream:
1. Marivin is better suited and fit for a reserve role; less pressure as a starter.
2. Marvin will be paid more commensurate with his ability, talent, skill set and potential.
3. Marvin could possibly flourish with a fresh start, new role and new identity.
4. The proximity is perfect; Marvin would not have to move or relocate.
5. Marvin can say “I’m taking my talents to the WNBA.”
Cons for Marvin Williams playing with the Dream:
Let’s not kid ourselves; this is a total win-win for Marvin Williams, however, he could potentially have problems with the “gender issue.”
The Real Mandingo
July 22nd, 2011
8:46 pm
Just kidding Marvin Williams.
Trade Sy+Horford TPE PF, Donatas backup PF Jordan HIll, C Hasheem Thabeet backup SF,Malcolm Thomas
July 22nd, 2011
9:59 pm
lmfao I love this blog!
Ken Strickland dont kid yourself. I would never say put Josh Smith at the 4.
Josh Smith grabs 15% of all rebounds. Jordan Hill grabbed 17.6 in Houston his rookie season.
Any motivated 6′10 reasonable athlete > Josh Smith on the boards.
Oh yeah All Media Al grabbed 16% of all boards, Zaza? 16.1%.
, working on a counter move lmao. Semantics
keep trying to make excuses man.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
July 22nd, 2011
10:04 pm
“Let him be average Al in Orlando. We need defensive players. Lets get Jsmoove back to the front court where he belongs.”
small forward is the frontcourt, ever heard of James Worthy? Julius Erving? Bernard King?
smdh. Trade AL
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
July 22nd, 2011
10:34 pm
“AHorford has been a Hawk for 4yrs and we’ve made the playoffs each of those 4yrs, as well as 3 consecutive trips to the Eastern Conference semifinals.”
umm Josh Smith + Joe Johnson+ {rebounder = playoffs?}
“AHorford has improved each yr he’s been in the NBA, and is a current Allstar and All NBA CENTER that has yet to reach his max potential.”
Al Horford Playoffs
Season PTS TRB AST
2007-08 12.6 10.4 3.6
2008-09 6.9 5.8 2.0
2009-10 14.6 9.0 1.8
2010-11 11.3 9.6 3.5
smh
Nobody’s saying those numbers are bad, but they’re clear on one point. Against the great teams in the NBA, Horford’s only good. It’s not like choosing Noah over Al means shortchanging a young Tim Duncan. Meanwhile, here’s Noah’s playoff numbers in the playoffs:
12 games, 51.9% fg, 12.1 ppg, 13.1 reb
Who would YOU want?
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to get back to Twitter…
sad
July 22nd, 2011
10:49 pm
Al was injured?
Al Horford Playoffs
Season PTS TRB AST
2007-08 12.6 10.4 3.6
2008-09 6.9 5.8 2.0
2009-10 14.6 9.0 1.8
2010-11 11.3 9.6 3.5
Every season he gets injured.He’s a passer, he aint Carmelo, he aint Amare, he aint Josh Smith
hes a wanna be Amare Stoudemire. What a punk always screaming at smaller players but never bigger ones he cant score on
Felix
July 22nd, 2011
11:42 pm
Observations:
Smoove: could have a huge impact on the league — but he has severe attitude problems and seemingly cannot be convinced to focus on areas where he can maximize his potential. Unlike many superstars — he works to improve parts of his game, but it canabalizes the others.
Horford: Just simply not talented enough to be a real game-changer. A great role player, but nothing more.
Teague: Anyone who watched this team play all year should understand that Teague should start and play the majority of minutes at point. The team was night/day better with Teague running the point. He proved himself beyond the shadow of any doubt in the playoffs. Any talk of splitting minutes or allowing Hinnrich to start is absurd.
Marvin: Rebound, Marvin! Ten-plus per game. You CAN do this. And you won’t make a fool of yourself in the process like you do attempting to penetrate and landing on your ass every other time. Just focus on rebounding.
Joe: Overpaid — but so is every NBA player.
Damien: A worthwhile player to have coming off the bench. Very few weaknesses.
LD: Utterly a horrible coach. Just plain unbelievably horrible. How could he not be fired after the home blowout after home blowou debacle (hint: see below)? He consistently said one thing and did another. Over and over. His offense never materialized and that was the sole reason he was hired in the first place.
Ownership: A freaking joke. Co-leaders has never worked in any arena that I have knowlege of. Much less 6 (or however many members the ASG has). A total fiasco from the moment of it’s conception.
Ra'mon
July 23rd, 2011
12:18 am
KenS, if you’re saying you would rather have Horford instead of Chris Paul, I assure you, only you and Tito Horford would share that opinion. Horford is an ‘all nba center’. But the problem is Horford doesn’t want to play center. Horford isn’t an all-star forward, and wouldn’t be. Chris Paul is the 2nd best PG in the league, and if you include defense, he’s the first.
You say the Hawks have been in the playoffs each year Horford has been there. But you fail to point out the season before Horford came, the Hawks were only 2 games out of 8th place when Joe went down with a season ending injury.
Also, when the playoffs start, Horford disappears for the last 4 seasons. Chris Paul not only shows up more in the playoffs, he LEADS. You’re not trading your best rebounder for a gimpy pg. You’re trading a player who only gives you 15/9 for a player that gives you 19/10 assists/ 4 reb (.1 more than Joe Johnson)/2 steals and LEADS your team. And saying he’s injured, that injured player averaged 36 min a game last season while playing in 80 regular season games.
Also, away from the court, have you seen the outreach programs that Chris Paul has done in New Orleans? Imagine what he could do here in Atlanta?
Who do you think fans would rather see, Al ‘14 foot jumper’ Horford or Chris ‘NBA Ambassador’ Paul?
marvin?
July 23rd, 2011
12:47 am
Enter your comments here
Ken Strickland
July 23rd, 2011
1:22 am
RA’MON-Why keep making an issue of AHorford’s preference for playing PF when, despite those claims, he’s done well enough at C to be voted the NBA’s 3RD BEST CENTER BY HIS PEERS? Wouldn’t that make him better than all other NBA centers who like playing center, according to his peers? Now there is a fool who, under numerous names, tries very hard to make that out to be a negative, but we are talking about a complete fool.
Despite your fondness for CPaul, his abilities won’t do a doggone thing towards improving our rebounding and interior DEF, much like it hasn’t done much for the Hornets so far. And you act like Horford has done absolutely nothing within the community. You’re rather biased when it comes to Horford vs Paul.
Winning teams often have star players, but it’s interior players like Horford that makes it all work. Keep in mind that CPaul has had Centers TChandler and Okafor, and he still hasn’t been able to win consistently. You seem to be star struck, which means you seem more interesed in the individual player than the team.
What did you say...
July 23rd, 2011
1:31 am
OK the consensus is rather obvious. All/average/Al is a press favorite but a hawk weakness. Fans laugh to call Al all anything but All feminine.
Al Horford Playoffs
“Season PTS TRB AST
2007-08 12.6 10.4 3.6
2008-09 6.9 5.8 2.0
2009-10 14.6 9.0 1.8
2010-11 11.3 9.6 3.5″
Wait to this season. Al is always telling other people to play defense be he wont, yet he wants the ball….whats his career average? 12pts a game? how in the hell is that an all star? The only thing Al does for the hawks is break down the chemistry and force the best power forward on the team and one of the best in the NBA to the perimeter to shoot bombs. GET JOSH back in the paint where he is a dominate player.
Trade Al and a pick for Howard and or Chris Paul. Either move would be a step up and The Howard move would put us back in contention for title. To hell with selfishass horford.
What did you say...
July 23rd, 2011
1:36 am
Larry Drew has been with the hawks every year that theyve made the playoffs…. Dominic has been an announcer every year that the hawks made the play offs. There was a politician some where in america every year the hawks made the play offs. I had season tickets every year the hawks made the play offs.
Just because disappearing in the playoffs Al was on the team doesnt mean anything. Hes done nothing but whine and complain and force the other players to compensate for his charmin soft bitchin.
trade Al while he has some market value.
Grandad
July 23rd, 2011
1:48 am
Ra’mon
Hold on there young fella.
” KenS, if you’re saying you would rather have Horford
instead of Chris Paul, I assure you,
only you and Tito Horford would share that opinion ”
Ra’mon;
I woulkd have to think long and hard myself,
for the exact same reasons Ken S pointed out.
* Think about Brandon Roy – 2 yrs ago:
Would you have traded Joe for Roy ?…..perhaps ?
If you start talking about Paul –
you must take into consideration [those / that] knees or knee.
Besides – Nola would not give up Paul for Al straight up.
You would have to give Al, Teaguer, & a # 1.
* I surely would -NOT- do that !
Buddy Grizzard
July 23rd, 2011
6:16 am
Via Twitter, Zaza did not reach a contract agreement and will not play with Besiktas, the Turkish team that signed dwill.
Slimjr
July 23rd, 2011
7:34 am
“Horford: Just simply not talented enough to be a real game-changer. A great role player, but nothing more.” BINGO!
Even a “Fools Fool” can can under that? Comprende?
Must be tough to look in that mirror everyday and claim that your smarter than everybody else……
Slimjr
July 23rd, 2011
7:58 am
Ra’mon, for GM 2012…
SF,Malcolm Thomas PF, Donatas PF Jordan HIll, C Hasheem Thabeet
July 23rd, 2011
9:31 am
“Marvin: Rebound, Marvin! Ten-plus per game. You CAN do this. And you won’t make a fool of yourself in the process like you do attempting to penetrate and landing on your ass every other time. Just focus on rebounding.”
Marvin Williams 10% Total Rebound Percentage
Larry Bird 14% Total Rebound Percentage
Josh Smith 14% Total Rebound Percentage
are you suggesting we play Marvin more than the other 2 so he can average 10 boards?
Marvin can backup JJ at the 2 and show you guys just what he’s got.
Which is rebounding, scoring on smaller guys and shoot over them at will.
Sign Malcolm Thomas for the big wing and give him and Marvin Williams 12 minutes per game.
Move Horford. Look at his #s, he’s more Boris Diaw than Amare Stoudemire.
What I’ve been trying to say is… Zaza Pachulia grabs 11% of all available offensive rebounds and is solid in all other areas.
Tim Duncan grabbed 10% and David Robinson as well.
This is why we look like contenders when Smith and Zaza and Al are in the game together.
They average about 25% offensive rebounds.
Boston with Perkins Garnett and Pierce? only 19%.
Move Horford and his 17%-19% Usage Rate for a pure scorer who can shoot over 20% usage rate. Move Horford for the 13% offensive rebounder in Hill. Slide him to PF with Zaza. (24% offensive rebound combined).
Sign Malcolm Thomas similar to Hakim Warrick (not a bad thing, he’s an underrated SF out of position rebounding wise similar to Josh) (7% offensive boards).
True Shooting % is a measure of how valuable your shots are (free throws, 3 pt plays). Dirk is at 61.2%. Perkins 63% in 08. Kosta Koufos always 53%.
Darko Milicic
4th and final piece: Move Horford for Hasheem Thabeet’s 60.5% shooting and 11% offensive tip ins/boards.
Shaquille O’Neal only has two seasons of over 60.5% True Shooting %.
Shawn Bradley the 7′6 Mormon? 0seasons
Manute Bol and his 8′0 wingspan? 0seasons
Motiejunas (average for guys his size is 7%)+Smith (8%) +Thabeet (11%)= 26% offensive rebounds
Move Williams 5% offensive boards to backup 2 guard.
What you lose in Horford is Assist %. Horford has a 17% assist percentage. The more aggressive shooting Dirk Nowitzki? 14%.
Big men are not supposed to past that much. Smith is Shawn Marion, he should not pass that much
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbw6euxIGvU#t=0m27s
Tell me who you’d rather have passing your PG and SG or “power” forward? Al has no position, maybe in Houston his UNCOORDINATED and T-REX ARM post game and 2 free throws per game over 4 years will be all star caliber for the West
but not here.
P.S. did you know Al said he wasn’t an All Star and Jim O’ Brien called him a success story?
He’s a great passer but media generated player as far as playoffs and idiosyncrasies of his post play against guys his size go… its all lies.
Ra'mon
July 23rd, 2011
9:33 am
KenS you say why do I keep speaking about Al Horford wanting to play PF and not be a C, is the same reason Al Horford and his father keeps saying he doesn’t want to play C, and he would like to move to the PF position.
Also you’re wrong about helping out our interior defense. There was not much wrong with the interior defense. The problem was penetrating from the perimeter and PGs of other teams’.
This was enhanced by Al not having that ‘enforcer’ mentality. We understand Al isn’t a shot blocker. So why doesn’t Al take more charges then? His former teammate, Noah, takes charges all of the time, and he can block shots. So why can’t Al do half of that?
The fact is Ken, you say Horford gets better every season. But the only thing that has noticeably improved over the last three seasons for Horford is his jump shot. He isn’t a better rebounder than he was previously, Horford doesn’t play with the hustle energy that he did in his first two seasons. As I said a while back, Horford was shut down by a one legged Carlos Boozer and Taj Gibson for a series. But Al’s improving every year?
Grandad, I disagree with you. I think the Hornets would take Kirk and Al for CPaul. I think its because they won’t be able to get another ‘young All Star’ for Paul in any other deal (LAL, NYK). And remember, trading for Paul isn’t saying this is the last move. Its opening up a trade (or sign and trade) for Dwight Howard (via Joe Johnson). Its already rumored that D12 would love to play with Paul. And we know he wants to play with Josh. So why not bring the three of them together. Think about how scary that half court defense would be in the playoffs.
Grandad, please remember Paul has not missed major time for injuries except for in one season where he played in 45 games. So when you say would I have traded Joe for Roy, I wouldn’t have cause Joe is a better shooter. But that argument is also muted by the fact that Roy was younger than Joe. So the conventional argument was to go for the younger player. Paul wasn’t favoring his knee last season. Roy has been favoring his knee for the last 3 seasons. And don’t forget Paul is only 26 years old.
Please don’t think someone is bashing Al Horford, I’m not. I just think if you know you want to make a run at D12, Horford can’t remain on the roster. And if you can move Horford for an All NBA player who is a LEADER, why wouldn’t you do that deal?
Ra'mon
July 23rd, 2011
9:37 am
KenS, by the way, Chris Paul is averaging 22 ppg/ 11 apg/ 5 rpg/ 2 steals, while shooting 49% from the field and 34% from beyond the arc in career PLAYOFFS performances. As I said, his playoffs numbers are better than his regular season numbers.
We all know the preferred deal would be Joe Johnson for Paul. But that deal won’t happen this year. It will take another season before you can deal Joe Johnson.
Slimjr
July 23rd, 2011
9:49 am
CP3= 1st Ballot Hall of Fame
________= Yawn, fill in the blanks…
hawksfancents95
July 23rd, 2011
9:53 am
id take cp3 in a heart beat. he is easily 2nd best pg in the nba behind rose. team usa 2012 olympic roster
pg d.rose/ cp3
sg kb24/ dwade
sf kevin durant/melo
pf lebron/blake griffin/klove
c dwight/ ?(tyson chandler/javale/bynum)
i like ra’mons idea here bout acquiring cp3 for al and kirk. then dwight might be enticed enough to come back to atl and with dwight cp3 josh as our big 3 we could easily make an ecf every year for the next 4-7 years.
although i enjoy this hawks future possibility i doubt the hawks even if this was plausable theyd not have the kahunas to pull it off
hawksfancents95
July 23rd, 2011
9:54 am
throw deron williams in there on that 2012 olympic team as the 12th man
Slimjr
July 23rd, 2011
9:57 am
The reason Al has to pass more than the average big is real simple. His lack of handles does not allow him to reset and garner another piece of real-state to get his set shot off..
He cant shoot on the move.A major weakness in the NBA..
Basketball 101: All NBA AL has a set shot, not a jump shot…….Yawn…..
Grabbing 6 rebounds a game in garbage time is no big deal…
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
July 23rd, 2011
10:21 am
I see that my ID has been stolen overnight. No surprise there. When trolls come to the blog, nonsense happens.
Those who know, however, never would have thought those posts were anyone else than our multi-named troll with only one thing to say.
SF,Malcolm Thomas PF, Donatas PF Jordan HIll, C Hasheem Thabeet
July 23rd, 2011
11:15 am
Chris Paul is better than Derrick Rose.
Chris Paul generated the most wins from guard since Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. nash and Billups included.
He is/was that efficient. He reminded me of Jordan in fact. Able to finish through contact, 6′1 yet operating in the face up pivot at times.
That being said even Jordan needed Pippen+ Rodman/Horace Grant + bench.
All Duncan needed was a fading Robinson, followed up by playing with Oberto, Nazr Mohammed, Rasho Nasterovic.
People forget Duncan was a power forward who grabbed 10% of all missed shots, Now he’s an aging center with no speed to be dynamic for extended minutes but the fact still stands.
In the last ten years…contract aside, Josh Smith could have been an UPGRADE as opposed to Bruce Bowen, Tayshaun Prince, Trevor Ariza, Shawn Marion
on those championship rosters.
Who can Al replace Garnett? no. Gasol? no. Duncan? no.
I’m not bashing Al, but his strengths are his strengths and his weaknesses are just to glaring.
There are no trading away the bench (Marvin, Zaza, Hinrich) that can justify Horford at power forward in the East.
He’s just not a scorer.
And Orlando would rather take on Horford and be a 30-40 win team, trade a HoF big man with a division rival AND not rebuild and lose out on draft picks AND ticket sale$?
no ones coming to see Horford in Orlando after Dwight left, too big of shoes to fill.
P.S. has anyone heard that Brook Lopez wanted Dwight to play power forward? tough luck AL. there will always be 7 foot power forwards as well.
Either you have it or you dont. Zach Randolph and Kevin Love arent going to come over to the East, Charlie Villanueva is not going to be guarding u in the Eastern Conference playoffs.
Time is up. Move Smith to SF, Marvin to backup SG. Let Teague be the passing point guard, not Al.
Nets Lopez Open To Playing Alongside Howard – RealGM Wiretap
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/213609/Nets_Lopez__Open_To_Playing_Alongside_Howard
Ken Strickland
July 23rd, 2011
11:22 am
RA’MON-CPaul’s INDIVIDUAL NUMBERS are impressive indeed, but how has his team benefitted from those numbers over the 6yrs he’s been in the league? In my previous post I made mention of being STAR STRUCK, and this is a perfect example. I’m focused on how Paul’s production hasn’t impacted his team, as far as winning consistently and being a playoff factor. While you’re focused solely on his INDIVIDUAL PLAYER PRODUCTION and ignoring the lack of impact it’s had on his team.
Where do you get this idea that Horford is or has gone soft? You have one camp that whines about him not being a prolific shotblocker, and another camp whinning about him not taking charges, or not being more physical. Well, the Mavericks are NBA champs, and they did it with a center that’s definitely not physical, so I guess that means he’s soft. And despite all of the opinions to the contrary, he’s not a profilic shotblocker either.
Just compare his seasonal and career BPG average to Horfords and you’ll see what I mean. So, you’re saying Horford hasn’t improved in any area over his 4yrs in the NBA other than his jumpshot, WOW? I seriously doubt NBA coaches and players voted him to the Allstar gm, and 3rd team All NBA, based exclusively on him improving in only one area in his 4yr career, and that was with his jumpshot. I guess you see what you want to see, but NBA coaches and players disagree with you, along with one or two others, on Horford.
steven A.
July 23rd, 2011
11:51 am
“Must trade 2 starters as soon as they reach a labor agreement”
Before the trade deadline, the Atlanta Hawks must figure out a way to acquire J.R. Smith. Also take a long look at Arron Aflalo. Attempt to trade Horford or Josh Smith. Allow Crawford to walk. Also, make
kurt Heinrich available.
steven A.
July 23rd, 2011
11:58 am
“Gone fishing”
Josh Smith should never play the “4″ position again. Best suited for the sf. Do not re-sign Jason Collins, Josh Powell, Etan Thomas, Hilton Armstrong, or Damien Wilkins. Let them all “go fishing”
SF,Malcolm Thomas PF, Donatas PF Jordan HIll, C Hasheem Thabeet
July 23rd, 2011
12:22 pm
KenS I can see where you’re coming from.
I’m not saying I’d trade big for small at ALL but Chris Paul> Horford. His team has won consistently.
2004-2005 New Orleans was 18 win team. Next season 38 win team.
Al Horford did not join an 18 win team. He joined a 30 win team as a college center who just won the NCAA tournament and the team that had no big men.
We went from 30 to 37 wins. At age 22 CP led his team to 56 wins with no small ball involved.
Chandler, West, Stojacovic, and Morris Peterson.
Using PER, WS/48, True Shooting and Percentage of Possessions used, assist %… there is no way Horford is even close to a healthy Hall of Fame guard in his prime.
Shaquille O’Neal 18.65
Chris Paul’s career high Wins is 18.29
Al Horford 10.9,
Troy Murphy? 8.5
Kwame Brown 4.9?
on a per minute basis Horford is very replaceable with 3 role playing big men. Chris Paul not easily replaced, you need a guard and/or talent bigs.
Horford has improved his assists every year. However with his increased points his free throw attempts go down because he’s unable to dribble past anybody and draw fouls.
He led the team in minutes and shot how many free throws last year?
Minutes FTA Assists Player
2880 388 782 Chris Paul
2870 597 202 Amare Stoudemire
2504 443 190 Nowitzki
2724 396 163 Zach Randolph
2451 327 164 David West
2809 273 120 Elton Brand
2639 246 249 Lamar Odom backup!
1882 244 145 Boozer
3112 695 312 Blake Austin Griffin rookie
2156 257 203 Duncan, 34 yo 7′0 PF
2222 233 105 Greg Monroe, 20 yo 6′11 PF
1576 188 107 Joakim Noah
2704 188 266 Al horford
1748 minutes- J. Hill – 153 FTA. 49 assists
He’s not a power forward. He’s not a defensive center.
His skillset is that of a smart center. Problem is once you get to the playoffs everyone’s just as smart and it comes down to skill.
What NBA players actually are intimidated by Horford?
Horford passing skills do not translate to playoffs bcuz its all based on him being smarter than opponent,
Noah missed half the season and still tied Al for FTA. critique and trade for traditional scoring big men is warranted.
SF,Malcolm Thomas PF, Donatas PF Jordan HIll, C Hasheem Thabeet
July 23rd, 2011
12:27 pm
Tyson Chandler 2059 minutes 295 free throws 32assist center
Al horford 2704 188 free throws 266assist tweener, speed center
Elton Brand 2809 273 free throws 120assist forward
al is not a scoring forward and never will be. cant guard centers and never will.
In 4 year career out of college Al has 875 free throws.
Blake Griffin 1 year out of college, missed a season with a fractured kneecap comes back and gets 695 in one year.
Ken, You cant read the signs?
SF,Malcolm Thomas PF, Donatas PF Jordan HIll, C Hasheem Thabeet
July 23rd, 2011
12:40 pm
Re: steven A.
July 23rd, 2011
11:58 am
“Gone fishing”
Josh Smith should never play the “4″ position again. Best suited for the sf.”
……………
Shawn Marion Tayshaun Prince Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre and James Worthy are saying thank you.
Didnt Dennis Rodman play the SF and win 2 rings before they lost their PF-C of Mahorn, Laimbeer?
and what happened as soon as he moved to PF? he got traded, lost with David RObinson at Center and never won until he had Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc.
If Rodman/Smith isnt at the 3 you better have Scottie Pippen or Lebron on the wing moving him out of position.
Not Marvin Williams who is best as a big Drexler type bully 2 guard. a mediocre SF.
and Rodman was a better PF than Smith, “smaller” than Smith but Smith is bigger and thus slower to the ball.
Rodman was a speed demon, tireless worker as well. Smith will be lucky to reach peak Marion level. Smith Already passed Gerald Wallace however with 15% total rebounds last year.
ArtMan
July 23rd, 2011
12:51 pm
Dept. Of Unintended Irony -
I noticed that also. The posts used by the multi-named Troll all do sound the same. A lot of hot air that smells.
steven A.
July 23rd, 2011
12:52 pm
I do not understand why this coach can not decide on a permanent starting five. Agree with most on this blog. MARVIN DOES NOT LIKE TO PLAY DEFENSE OR REBOUND. Marvin Williams should
be coming off the bench “EVERY” night. Problem is, he has a scorers’ mentality, and is not very good
at it. Marvin deserves about “15 MINUTES” per game under any set of circumstances.
SF,Malcolm Thomas PF, Donatas PF Jordan HIll, C Hasheem Thabeet
July 23rd, 2011
1:32 pm
@Dept. Of Unintended Irony
I was under the impression it was a equal opportunity. You only post when you see something ironic? Pretty cynical… but I digress.
………..
“AHorford has improved each yr he’s been in the NBA, and is a current Allstar and All NBA CENTER that has yet to reach his max potential.”
Al Horford Playoffs
Season PTS TRB AST
2007-08 12.6 10.4 3.6
2008-09 6.9 5.8 2.0
2009-10 14.6 9.0 1.8
2010-11 11.3 9.6 3.5
:::::::::::
“Nobody’s saying those numbers are bad, but they’re clear on one point. Against the great teams in the NBA, Horford’s only good. It’s not like choosing Noah over Al means shortchanging a young Tim Duncan. Meanwhile, here’s Noah’s playoff numbers in the playoffs:
12 games, 51.9% fg, 12.1 ppg, 13.1 reb
Who would YOU want?”
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/11/2/1787722/al-horford-vs-joakim-noah-who-ya-got
Horford tries to get free throws but he’s not lanky enough (Amare/Griffin/West) or small enough (Blake) of forward or a big guy who shoots over you and gets putbacks like Duncan or Nowitzki or Monroe or Rasheed.
Pachulia gets more offensive boards and fouls than Al.
Joakim Noah missed 34 games and actually TIED with Al for 182 offensive rebounds.
Taj Gibson 1700 minutes and 162 offensive boards. Boozer 130 in 1882 minutes.
Asik 112 in 989 minutes.
Give me Asik, Gibson, Noah > Horford. Horford is one man. Coaches/media vote him in not players.
Slimjr
July 23rd, 2011
2:19 pm
“Chris Paul is averaging 22 ppg/ 11 apg/ 5 rpg/ 2 steals, while shooting 49% from the field and 34% from beyond the arc in career PLAYOFFS performances. As I said, his playoffs numbers are better than his regular season numbers. ”
@Ra’mon
Whats even more impressive about CP3’s numbers is he is operating in the Western Conference which is the more talented conference.Imagine what he could do in the East? Dethrone DRose as the next MVP?
On the flip side if AllStar/All NBA JR played out West? What would become of him out there? Would the NeNe’s and Chuck Hayes dismantle him every night? Hmmmmmmm?
Ken Strickland
July 23rd, 2011
2:28 pm
DEPT OF UNINTENDED
IRONY-We can all see the limited intellectual capacity of this extremely immature troll. It would be far better if this MORON could somehow change what he says, rather than changing his name and repeating the same lame BS. Oh well, STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.
STEVENA-Marvin is the type of player that if you lock him out he’ll stay out and won’t try to get back in. If you let him in, he’ll come in and function. LDrew has to make an effort to let him in, rather than expecting him to take charge when JJ, Josh, Al or Jamal doesn’t have it going.
The problem is, and it’s not just with Marvin, LDrew will continue to call plays for certain players that aren’t being productive. Just like JJ and Jamal, Drew thinks the team can’t win without their scoring. If certain players are doing well, he calls plays for them, and if they aren’t doing well, he’ll continue calling plays for them, rather than calling plays to try and get Marvin involved to take up the slack.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 23rd, 2011
2:32 pm
Chris Paul > everyone on the Hawks’ roster. Easily. That Hornets team wins about 10 games without him.
SF,Malcolm Thomas PF, Donatas PF Jordan HIll, C Hasheem Thabeet
July 23rd, 2011
3:01 pm
u r the one name calling Ken S. U r just as immature.
Horford> Chris Paul
SF,Malcolm Thomas PF, Donatas PF Jordan HIll, C Hasheem Thabeet
July 23rd, 2011
3:07 pm
Ken Strickland you are being a [fill in the blank]. I apologized to Dept. Of Unintended Irony. None of your business to go out of ure way to hurl insults.
comparing Chris Paul’s efficiency with Mo Peterson, David West and a brokeback Stojacovic to Horford with Joe Johnson Josh Smith Josh Childress/Jamal Crawford Marvin Williams… moronic
Chris Paul was on Magic Johnson’s level of efficiency only 2 years ago.
Yeah conventional fans would say I’m a moron. So they said of Socrates. Al’s career trajectory is on the wall. 2 FTA, 36mpg, for his career. Any playoff bench scorer worth his salt can get 2 Free throw attempts.
Horford has yet to be VOTED into an All Star game.
Doc Rivers
“I love him, I love watching him. I was just telling someone, of all the All-Stars, coaching the All-Star team, he was hands down—it was’t even close—my favorite guy. Just the way he carries himself. He made a comment to me, ‘Coach, don’t worry about playing me, I just want to play one stint. This is about the STARS.”
Great attitude. Great personality. Inferior Playoff talent who’s best attribute is being smarter and faster than other centers. When he meets others who are as smart as him…he has no talent. Men lie, women lie…
Not a star never will be,
SF,Malcolm Thomas PF, Donatas PF Jordan HIll, C Hasheem Thabeet
July 23rd, 2011
3:18 pm
Great blog Mr. Cunningham.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
July 23rd, 2011
3:36 pm
“Ken Strickland you are being a [fill in the blank]. I apologized to Dept. Of Unintended Irony”
Oh yeah, what an apology. Here it is:
” @Dept. Of Unintended Irony
I was under the impression it was a equal opportunity. You only post when you see something ironic? Pretty cynical… but I digress.”
Anybody else think that’s an apology? Perhaps I’m being TOO ironic.
Ken Strickland
July 23rd, 2011
3:41 pm
I never said Horford was better than CPaul. I said it would be foolish to trade Horford for CPaul. There’s a big difference in the 2 statements. I noticed you avoided commenting about Horford being VOTED 3rd string All NBA by his peers and coaches.
If you’ll notice, I didn’t identify anyone by name when I made my post about someone being immature, limited intellectually, and using mulitple names. You obviously recognized your own shorcomings and childish habits, took offense and responded. Hell, Thabeet isn’t a star either, and he never will be. Actually, he’s yet to prove he even belongs in the NBA, yet you keep going on and on about him being better for the Hawks than the NBA’s 3rd best CENTER, as voted by his peers and coaches.
NAJEH-In 09-10 CPaul played in only 45gms. In the 37gms he missed the team won 14. In the 45gms he played in, the team won 23. I think they would do mush better than 10 wins without him. That’s not to diminish his talents a oveall contribution to his team, but he couldn’t replace what Horford brings to the table, which are the things we need most.
It’s very doubtful if JTeague will ever come close to measuring up to CP3 as a PG or as a player, but he can certainly provide us with a lot of what CP3 brings to the table.
Worldwide Clyde
July 23rd, 2011
4:10 pm
For the past 3 years Horford has never been held accountable for his defense.
SF,Malcolm Thomas PF, Donatas PF Jordan HIll, C Hasheem Thabeet
July 23rd, 2011
4:12 pm
@Dept. Of Unintended Irony I apologize Irony. wont happen again.
“I said it would be foolish to trade Horford for CPaul.”
More specifically you basically said Paul has hollow numbers.
Dept of UIrony:
“I see that my ID has been stolen overnight. No surprise there. When trolls come to the blog, nonsense happens.”
KenS:
“We can all see the limited intellectual capacity of this extremely immature troll. It would be far better if this MORON could somehow change what he says, rather than changing his name and repeating the same lame BS.”
……
“If you’ll notice, I didn’t identify anyone by name when I made my post about someone being immature, limited intellectually, and using multiple names.”
1) Just how many names do you think I am posting under? Dont be shy.
2) The NBA’s 3rd best “center?
Thabeet isn’t a “star”? Did I say he was? I said he gets 11% of rebounds. I said Hill gets 13%.
Chandler 12%.
True Shooting
Thabeet shot 60.5% as a rookie, Hill 57.5%, Dirk 61% this year, Hakim Warrick 56%.
Smith is an upgrade as SF over any center we could get for him. Horford is not a center in the playoffs.
He’s not a scoring forward in the playoffs and anyone with length make him seem average over the past 4 years.
You’re only defense is Coaches voted him in as a center. Yet we see he cant dominate/defend centers or seperate himself against the likes of Kurt Thomas Ilyasova.
7 Games? Your only defense is he made the All Star game and avoiding that the structure of players would all slot into their correct positions.
Pau Gasol was voted into exactly 1 All Star Game prior to LA. Dennis Rodman only 2 for his career.
Give me the 2 NBA Titles. Dumars, Salley Thomas Rodman Lambieer Mahorn earned.
Give me underachievers/media targets shot-blocking Rasheed, Ben Wallace, Billups, Hamilton, Prince.
Get a title and THEN go to the All Star Game, how about that.
Zero rings, 7 All Star Games on the Hawks. Give me a team of stellar role players and a tall coordinated Motiejunas over big names with clear weaknesses.
SF,Malcolm Thomas PF, Donatas PF Jordan HIll, C Hasheem Thabeet
July 23rd, 2011
4:49 pm
Hakim Warrick’s true shooting is worth 56% and he Uses 20% of possessions.
a SF at PF? = 20% usage
Dirk is 61.2% and uses 28% of possessions for himself.
a 7′0 with a SG face up game and SF post game= near 30% usage
Shaq, Duncan demanded 28% with Ginobili and Parker… allows him to play with strict defenders Bowen and Oberto/Nasterovic/Mohammed.
Can you imagine Horford demanding near 28% of shots. Josh could get a shot off anytime he wants, we’d lose though…
Josh Smith is a 25% usage, especially WHEN he loses more weight like Marion.
We run him off cross screens on baseline and get layups
Crawford was a 25% possession user. Motiejunas is the 25% usage guy who can play defense, lead the break, trail for a jump shot, pump fake and Dunk with his 37″ vertical.
I find it amazing that at 7′0.5 he was more fluid than the 6′9.75 Horford,
Can you imagine the lefty Josh Smith who could hit jump shots AND was taller to shoot over smaller guys with more range?
Can you imagine putting the Josh Smith who cant shoot at SF next to the PF to grab rebounds against guys like Deng and Anthony? Taking pressure off Joe. Giving Teague a post option or room to operate on pick and wide pops?
Can you see Horford getting 1 out of every 3 possessions like Duncan? he’d just pass it back.
Its been 4 years, either he has no work ethic or I’m telling the truth. Not enough length or speed to be a dominant mismatch like Amare at the 4. Thats why he passes and has increased his assists every year.
Grandad
July 23rd, 2011
4:54 pm
1st of all, Nola ain’t gonna trade nobody as long as *Stern*
owns the team. *[technically the League]*
So the Paul argument is moot.
Ra’mon…No they would not accept Al & Kirk…sorry.
[assuming, they had an owner + a legit GM]
“Grandad,
please remember Paul has not missed major time for injuries
*except for in one season where he played in 45 games.”
*[that's a big exception]
Ra`mon please note:
the Brandon Roy example was a corollary.
Final thought on the matter.
I’m sick and tired of people vilifying
our consistently most complete and well rounded player.
Grandad
July 23rd, 2011
4:57 pm
……………….and yawl are perfectly welcome
to be sick and tired of me bein’ sick and tired !