Atlanta Hawks: Camp wrap

I’ve been away for a while. I show up, and I earn a first. Too bad I don’t have anything meaningful to add. Oh well!

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Based on what I have read the last three days about the mini-camp, sounds like LD likes Lighty and Alexander to go with Benson.

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2011-12 Hawks roster could be-

PG-Teague/Hinrich/?
SG-JJ/Lighty
SF-Marvin/Sy
PF-Josh/Alexander/Rolle
C-Horford/Zaza/Benson

Scoring on the perimeter from the second unit may be a problem if this ends up being the roster.

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Alexander looks like he could be a good fit here and be a rotational player for sure. A combo forward that can back up both Marvin or Josh.

My take is that the top 7 are Joe, Teague, Marvin, Josh and Al (starters) and Zaza and Hinrich off the bench.

Assuming Twin is resigned that will give us 8 guys.

Assuming 14 roster spots, and spots 11-14 will go to most likely Sy, Lighty(if signed), Rolle and Benson, then that leaves spots 9 and 10. So hopefully Alexander can get one of those spots and I would like to at least see a shooter added for the other rotational spot.

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Not sure, the Turk guy? Cenk? or is he a point guard?

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We will never see Cenk Akyol.

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geez, i was really for keith benson but with every new report it sounds like larry drew and MC repeatedley talk about how skinny he is. They havent mentioned he is good in the paint or playing solid D which is not a good start. im trying to be positive so hopefully with this lockout looming benson will get the hawks strength coaches full attention and be able to put on some weight. its good to hear joe alexander is doing well, it doesnt seem right he is now a 4 but i guess he doesnt have a shot and his athleticism can make up for only being 6′8. someone on the previous blog said lighty left the hawks camp to go to phx’s camp. i hope we can get him because that would put the hawks moreso in the right direction however miniscual the effect might be than staying with damien and knowing exactly what damien brings as opposed to the potential lighty can bring. LD is right in that we do need a knock down shooter. i thought we’d be able to get john diebler as a FA but that went down the drain. no knock down shooters FAs come to mind besides Jon Scheyer from Duke?
i hope sometime fri-sun the hawks go ahead and make some FA deals (alexander,lighty, and hopefully mccamey) that would leave me to believe the hawks are serious about getting to the finals. i know those FAs wont be anything huge for us this year or those 3 will get us to the finals but itd show they are not settling with mediocre vets and are hoping these young guys can turn into good role players and will be just as effective as any 10-15 vet bench players would be

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One thing I would like to see MC, whenever you discuss JJ, you always say “coming off his worst season or deliberate style bogged down the offense” why dont you also use the caveat “most injured prone season” the guy was hurt almost all year. In fairness you say the same things about other plays, but Al seems to get a pass, the guy plays no defense and has moved away from the basket, add those caveats. The guy is not a power forward, if you want to play it, you have to guard it, he cant.

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Joe Alexander:
vertical leap / freaky good
[can touch his head on the rim]
* even I can’t do that !
very strong 28 reps on the bench press @ the combine
(two yrs ago) he’s added strength & wgt since.
He has re-invented himself as a [4]
avg double/double in D-League + was an All-Star
Huggins wanted him to stay one more yr @ W.Va.
(probably should have) mis-cast as a [3]
* remind yawl of someone, Marv perhaps ?
“being mis-cast…not the falling down & other crap.

____________________________________________

Omar Samhan:
Lost 50 lbs in college – was listed at 265 coming out.
tremendous low post game
can use either hand
not a great athlete but knows how to play

editors note:
Hilton Armstrong is a physical specimen
and a fair to middlin’ athlete.
-but-
he can’t catch it, or shoot it,
or make a move in order to shoot it,
and he’s a little light in the ass.
-point-
Samhan can catch = great hands,
great ft, terrific post moves, B-ball IQ,
he’s a load, [D.Howard roadblock],
basically the anti Hilton Armstrong.
The kid can play !
You know…..Kevin McHale…
was not………blah, blah, blah, blah, either.

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FTPB

“You have no statistical evidence to say that Milicic is better than anyone in this league. He’s the worst most unathletic European I’ve ever seen.”

Well for one, Peja Drobnjak was far less athletic than Darko.

Secondly, I am no fan of Darko. I only said he’s better than Thabeet. I could have also mentioned Big Ray or Michael Cunningham, since they are also better basketball players than Thabeet. A giraffe would be better than Thabeet. A larger than life cardboard cutout of Harry the Hawk would be better than Thabeet. Osama bin Laden’s corpse would be better than Thabeet.

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Ivan Johnson wasn’t really on my radar at all until I read this writeup, but if he is an active, physical 6′8″ 255 pound low post scoring power forward, he sounds like a poor man’s version of Big Baby Davis. If he can get to the free throw line at a relatively frequent rate he could help the Hawks.

Same with Joe Alexander for that matter. If he can score in the low post and get to the line, he can help the Hawks. That is the dimension the Hawks are missing at the PF position off the bench right now.

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If the Hawks want a knock down shooter, Michael Redd is a free agent and will probably be pretty cheap considering he is coming off two consecutive years of serious injury.

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MC

Thanks !

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Najeh –

“Secondly, I am no fan of Darko. I only said he’s better than Thabeet. I could have also mentioned Big Ray or Michael Cunningham, since they are also better basketball players than Thabeet. A giraffe would be better than Thabeet. A larger than life cardboard cutout of Harry the Hawk would be better than Thabeet. Osama bin Laden’s corpse would be better than Thabeet.”

I think you are giving Thabeet too much credit. In all seriousness, he is tall and relatively athletic. However he has absolutely no clue how to play basketball. I would prefer Shawn Williams over Thabeet any day.

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“L.D. said the he suspects the camp was “very, very competitive” because the Hawks have so many open spots. He was set to meet with management today to compare notes on the players. “I will let Rick and them know who I like, they will let me know who they like,” he said. “We will talk about it as a staff and we will start making decisions. Some of these guys have other workouts. We will talk about the ones we do like, talk to agents and see if we can get them back to veterans’ camp.”

LD is really being coy here and I can respect that. Makes sense not to reveal too much information about any interested prospects since the opponents are listening and they can’t lock them into a commitment at this point. I would suspect the players he really liked were not even mentioned in MC write-up. Unfortunately, the Hawks have a bad record of filling out the roster with undrafted players. The stigma these players carry as being undrafted or D-Leaguers and being NBA rookies really hurt their chances for advancing into the NBA under a coach like LD. You know if 1st rounders like Jeff Teague and Jordon Crawford had PT issues with LD, any of these selected players won’t have any chance unless it’s garbage time and even then it’s not certain. If it’s tough for a NBA vet to sit cold through 70% of games and never play, then (at out of nowhere) ask to play in a highly competitive game and be a difference maker; what chances of success would any of these players have under the same circumstances with LD? Grooming young players is something LD has lacked to do in the past.

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Najeh

I love Zaza -&- I’m glad he’s a Hawk.
-but-
He may be *[not only the most un-athletic Euro] …
-but-
the most un-athletic white man I’ve ever seen.

* Worse than:
Chuck Nevitt, Billy Paultz, Bryant Reeves or Greg Kite.

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On 2nd take…

I may have exaggerated a bit.

Nevitt -&- Kite in those “Daisy Duke” short shorts,
that alone exacerbated their persona.

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Zaza isn’t that unathletic. He’s just clumsy.

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Najeh

c’mon now,
you can’t slide a sheet of paper under his feet when he jumps.

But, you know, Zaza is one of my favorite Hawks = top three.

I never include him in my;
mythical, mystical, hypothetical, just for fun, yet sometimes serious,
Trades O’ the Day.

But he can Box !

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i really like lawrence frank as a coach. i wish that the hawks coulda picked him up. lawrence frank>mike woodson

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I like Redd too, but while he will take a big pay cut next year, I am sure he is looking at the 3 to 5 million dollar range at the least. Is that more than the ASG is willing to spend?

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Guys,

Think about how funny this is. We are trying to guess the mind and plans of Rick Sund, LD, and the ASG. How do you do that based on their history?

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I would have traded Marvin for #37 and #47 from the Clips, and drafted the exact same players. Thompkins can shoot if we need shooters, and Leslie at least has the physical tools to be a lock down defender.

And the local angle would have generated interest in the Hawks. But that’s a two edged sword. If you have to cut one or both of them, there’s trouble.

But I still remember trading for ‘Nique – that turned out better than we could have hoped.

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Lot’s of typos in the last post – tired

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JoJo

You were correct on J.Alex’s standing vert @ 32.5
-however-
Joe Alexander has a 38.5 max vertical
-only-
one inch less than Josh.

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The Hawks will probably sign a couple undrafted free agents because it saves them salary. As with LD’s contract only being partially guaranteed through the lockout, the Hawks organization would probably rather sign undrafted free agents to $500,000 contracts rather than veterans minimum deals for $1m+.

And if LD isn’t going to play Damien, why not let Lighty take his spot for half the cost? Many of us concluded during last season that Damien should have been ahead of Marvin on the depth chart. But I think he’s one of those guys who, if LD gave him consistent minutes, he might become such a fan favorite due to his hustle that he would be harder to get rid of.

I’m definitely in favor of letting Powell’s and Etan’s places on the roster be taken by undrafted free agents. But if the Hawks are going to try to change the team’s culture away from the defensive indifference or incapacity of JC1 and Bibby, then Damien is not a guy you get rid of.

What the Hawks need to do right now, today, before the lockout starts, is call up Kwame Brown’s agent and tell him that the Hawks will guarantee him a starting position at center on a playoff team if he will sign for the vet’s minimum once the lockout is over. He’s really our only realistic chance to obtain a starting center who *might* be better than Zaza.

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2 rooks will be the max. Lighty and Benson, so Sund doesn’t have egg on his face boasting about filling a need. He gets the nod over Alexander. Is there enough room for all 3? Well, Marvin is still here, so I would say no. 5 pts in 18 playoff mpg….marvelous.

Larry’s doghouse in just a signature and a CBA agreement away.

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“When I think about [Alexander] when he came into the league, he was predominantly a jump-shooter and he took a lot of threes,” L.D. said. “He hasn’t taken one three since he’s been here in camp..

Memo to Josh Smith?

“L.D. said the he suspects the camp was “very, very competitive” because the Hawks have so many open spots..

Which also means the Hawks will not be active in free agency unless they are are vet min guys (imo).

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OB,

IMO, Marvin’s sole use should be as scorer coming off the bench just like he did in college taking advantage from the fact that he would be playing against inferior opposition.

His sole assets (on offense) are size/wingspan, a decent/fluid shooting stroke and the ability to sell contact and get to the line.

This could make him a decent/good shooter off picks at the SG slot since he can’t handle/drive and is vastly inconsistent with his feet set and this way he could shoot over shorter opponents (since he can’t back them into the paint).

However, all the above – if it worked – should be worth only about 3/4 million per.

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“well’ should be in the first paragraph after play in my last post

“Fall” should be “falls”

Still tired

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marvin shoild have always been a pf like harriton who he was to replace. he has the same body as our other two pf’s but with less agiity and atleticism so he gets stuck at sf with a horrible contract. who is running this team? no wonder he is a faiure, put people where they can succeed.

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Tale of the tape:

Marvin, 6′9″, 240 (allegedly)
Deng, 6′9″ 220

How much of a difference would Deng be on our team versus what Marvelous would be on their team?

One more stat: NBAdraft.net comparisons at the time of their draft…

Deng – Grant Hill
Marvin – N/A

Is there anything else that needs to be stated here? Billy Knight doesn’t believe in other’s opinions obviously.

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“On a team of aging guards who love jump shots, ‘?’ is really the only guy capable of attacking the rim and getting into the paint consistently. Even in limited backup minutes, ‘?’ finished one-third of the ‘?’ pick-and-roll plays in the postseason and one-quarter of them in the regular season – huge numbers we’d normally associate with a starter.’

Can anyone guess what team is being talked about? Hint: it’s not us, but I feel is going to be the model.

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Shooters? Do they ever talk about a posting-up? Guess JJ was right. This is a jumpshooting team. We’ll NEVER win playing like that. Wont happen. Gotta get some players in here with post moves. Dummies.

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Depending on Marvin is like waiting on a lunar eclipse. It happens one or twice a year. Marvin can not replace Jamal’s scoring. Jamal is on the same level as Jason Terry off the bench. He is one of the best scorers in the league when he gets hot. Jason Terry is not a good defender either, but Carlilse figured out how to not have him be such a defensive liability when he is on the floor by going to a zone. We have all stated on this blog that Jamal should not be running the point, unless it is an emergency, but our great coach continued to put him out there instead of putting the best point guard on the team out there at the point. We already have a huge problem scoring in the playoffs because of a lack of guys who can break people down off the dribble, and if we lose Jamal and don’t add another scorer, we might not get out of the 70’s in the playoffs next year. MArvin replacing Jamal’s scoring is almost laughable. Hell, Jamal might be the best true scorer on the team. Offense in the playoffs is a much bigger problem for us in the playoffs than defense is. When the defense tightens, we can’t score.

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terrell, you know this team, you know this coach, you know this GM. Why is anyone trying to see that there will be a different approach to the system that is here? It is the core of the same players. They are playing to how they have been instructed. We are not going to see an all-of-a-sudden reinvigorated team adding a new skill to their role.
Al wants more iso, Joe is Joe, and Josh doesn’t want anyone questioning his skillset. They have free reign IMO, and they aren’t being limited to certain roles.
The team is good against teams under .500, and for that I am thankful. The teams above .500? There is so much that needs to be done and its not just a tweak here or a tweak there.
Since Sund came here, the need has been to get us a C and a PG. Right now as it stands, Larry hasn’t given the reins to Teague and I don’t expect him to. We have C by committee because our all-star doesn’t want to play C. So we still have the same needs while what seems like a 3 year stint on being stagnant with bringing in a new voice as coach, and bringing in better talent. We gave more talent away with Bibby than we took back, but Larry just can’t sit a vet. That is obvious.

So when Larry says they need shooters, guess what we are striving to be?
OB, I havent heard a meaningful Kopono moment in a couple of years. I know he had a stint in Philly, but not sure where he is today.

You want a shooter? Go get Jodie Meeks. The Sixer backcourt is full. Jodie would be instant offense and is a deadly FT shooter. He is not a slasher, so don’t put that thought there. Meeks in on the 2nd year of a 2nd round draft choice contract, but when the guy heats up….

Another option, how much does Nate Robinson cost? He simply kills us and is on the last year of a 4.5M deal. Would Sund get punk’d again like he did with Grunfeld?

And Nene is going to be a full-fledged FA this summer.

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Could Sund go out there and get us Amundson? He is the energy guy we need at the C. He is deciding on a 2.4M option. Cheaper than Zaza, more energy than Zaza and would take Collins’ minutes if he had the chance.

Good stuff in hoopshype.com today…that Nene headline is a shocker! The fella is giving up 12M to get a big payday. Apparently, Denver is officially in rebuilding mode.

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Rod – Major Co-sign to your post. Woodson had somehow figured Jamal out. LD never did.

And scoring will be a big problem for us come playoff time, unless there are some major improvements, or Teague is better than I think he is. I think he’s going to be our best PG since Mookie, but not elite. Just good and solid on both ends of the court

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The Thunder may take a 2nd pick for him (Nate Robinson) if we could swing that somehow….with the cap and all.

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Draftexpress was uncannily accurate on Marvin.

His worst case scenario was Tim Thomas.

Not going to take the time to post stats, you can look them up for yourselves, but Marvin’s career averages are almost identical to Tim Thomas.

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DRtg
Defensive Rating (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); for players and teams it is points allowed per 100 posessions.

Championship DRtg past 5 years: 102

Josh Smith

Jason Collins
ORtg DRtg
96 108

Kirk Hinrich 31 yo
ORtg DRtg
101 109
:He missed 30 games 2 years ago and is 31 yo! Play him at shooting guard!
I love seeing white guys get abused
Joe Alexander 745 minutes played
ORtg DRtg
96 108
:Big fat white guy who has no defensive skill and allows 108 ppg! he can dunk though!

Chuck Hayes lol
ORtg DRtg
120 106

Brad Miller – 60 games, out till January w/ microfracture
ORtg DRtg
117 108

Hasheem Thabeet (doghouse, “doesn’t have a clue”) (+2)
ORtg DRtg
107 105 w/ OJ Mayo, Chuck Hayes, Kevin Martin providing “help” (being turnstyles that is)

7′2.5
Conclusion: Kevin Martin is the greatest defensive player “Dumb African.”

Roy Hibbert

…………..

“Offensive Rating” is a statistic used in basketball to measure either a team’s offensive performance or an individual player’s efficiency at producing points for the offense. It was created by author and statistician Dean Oliver.

For teams, the formula is: 100 x Pts / (Tm FGA + .04 x Tm FTA – 1.07 x (Tm ORB / (Tm ORB + Tm DRB)) x (Tm FGA – Tm FG) + Tm TO)[1]

For players, the formula is: Offensive Rating = (Points Produced / Individual Possessions) x 100

Points can be produced through field goals, free throws, assists, and offensive rebounds. Individual possessions are the sum of a player’s scoring possessions (field goals, free throws, plus partial credit for assists), missed field goals and free throws that the defense rebounds, and turnovers.

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Just like the Hawks to fill out their roster with D League players.

FIRE SUND

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@buddy grizzard 3:06am post
you cant sleep? thinkin about the hawks future to heavy on ur mind? you did have a plausable solution tho. that would be great if we could pry kwame away from MJ. i hope he would want an slight better chance at the o’brien than he’d have n charlotte, at least a guarentee he’d make the playoffs. i would give kwame more than vet min and guarentee his starting C spot. we need a FA big man that is not a rookie and can contribute 10-20 mins on any given night. if we can land kwame we get an actual starter and he’ll be able to give 20+ mins a night.

as for the blogger Al for nothing trade (hill, thabeet, foreigner) no one is campaigning for joe alexander to come in and be a starter or even a consistent role player. some of us want joe alexander because he is athletic and could be an asset if he improves his game. he is gona be a 10-15 end of the bench guy that can come in for a few mins here and there during certain situations. and saying he is worse than michael beasley? B-easy is good man, i would gladly take michael beasley he would start for us at 3 no problem. i dont see your logic but im not tryin to start a ajc blog war so i respect your thoughts but i dont agree

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@ MC

Do these guys even have a clue about advanced measurements? why are we taking bottomfeeders like Alexander.

Tyson Chandler
ORtg DRtg
113 102

Chuck Hayes Al Horford Hasheem Thabeet Brad Miller Patrick Patterson
ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg
120 106 118 105* 113 105* 118 109 117 108

08-09 Troy Murphy Brook Lopez Darko Milicic Jason Collins Omer Asik
ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg
120 106 110 109 95 105 98 103 104 97

Jordan Hill Blake Griffin Tim Duncan-33yo Marreese Speights
ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg
115 107 111 107 111 100 110 107

Only one of these guys played with Josh Smith his entire career.
and only one of these guys shot 61% True Shooting% his rookie season, Duncan included even though his USG% is superstar level.

I could randomly choose three of these guys and split 48 minutes per game 3 ways rather than be loaded with Al Horford’s mediocre defense and this

Playoffs Opponents MIA, MIL, ORL, CHI,

39 games played 1385 minutes ORtg DRtg
11 pts, 8 rebounds, 2 assists 36mpg 108 108

Duncan, Garnett, Shaq…Amare, Blake Griffin,
The league isnt getting any shorter or less athletic to accomodate Alison.

Greg Monroe
ORtg DRtg
120 109

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@MC

Can you comment on Demetri McCamey and how he looked/likelihood of him earning a spot on the roster?

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DMB, my apologies..never saw ur response..yeah, the answer was the Mavs, but it was JJ Barea, who is pending free agency, and who sliced up the Lakers with no answer from Kobe’s boys.

What we have in our backcourt is similar…..aging vets who prefer the jumpshot, and Teague is our only hope, our savior, to avoid making us look so one dimensional. If you don’t think Sund is following this model, you don’t know our GM. He never had an original idea in his dome.
He is looking for shooters as we speak, and he and Larry will justify keeping Teague in a bench role for his change of tempo.
Another observation or 2…are they telling Josh to be like Marion and Al to be our Dirk? I see slot of wanna be someone else instead of us just playing to our strengths. Perhaps our strengths are about as average as our limitations?

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Is it me or would it really be a bad idea to watch a lockout go on? After all, we truly know how our team is going to end up…we are going to mix in very little of the new personalities and still depend on Marvin, Joe, Josh and Al to lead us to the second round?
I would like to see both Sund’s and Larry’s contracts expire as much as I want to see the team they molded this upcoming season.

And tell me how this impacts the NBDL? Are they a union as well and has the league say we are shutting down these blue collar players also? I’m not sure I can make it thru a winter season not seeing Antoine Walker’S comeback attempt in Idaho?

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Ken Strick, that’s what I see the Hawks doing. Wilkins will be replace by Lighty, if we are able to sign him(Which looks likely). Armstrong will be replaced with Alexander as you say(Strong possibility). I think Etan should be replaced by Malcolm Thomas.

Don’t even bother bringing back Collins since Samhan can do the same plus provide low post offense & hit the mid range. I think Reggie Williams should get a shot at replacing Crawford. He at least tries on D even if he isn’t the most competent defender and can knock down shots. Benson and Rolle are similar players, so I say cut Rolle and add McCamey

@ Thabeet for Al, Not saying those guys just complete our roster and make us into a Finals team, but we lack depth and quality depth is hard to find when you are competing against the Heat, Boston, Dallas, Chicago and etc. If we can groom some of these undrafted rookies and low risk-high reward veterans with potential, then our bench will be set..The Spurs seem to do it year after year.

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Ken S,

3-Replacing Jamal with a player that plays DEF and can also score, even if not as prolifically as Jamal, is an upgrade..

Given the Hawks budget, they will not be able to afford that player.

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It’s amusing to see how the same individual continues to post the same stupid comments and suggestions about the same crappy players over and over and over. He uses meaningless stats to try and support his unsupportable position against players he doesn’t like. But when it comes to players he likes and supports, he either ignores the facts/stats about them, or invents his own to make it appear they will do for the Hawks what they haven’t come close to doing for anyone else.

There isn’t one single thing that he or anyone else can point to that will justify thinking Thabeet is anything other than a total bust. How can anyone with an actually basketball IQ be so high on a player that’s well above 7′, but struggles to out score and out rebound JTeague?

If the Hawks traded Horford for Thabeet and Motiejunas, we’d have two big slow 7′+ players who’s combined rebounding potential wouldn’t equal Horford’s or JSmith’s. Thabeet has proven he’s allergic to rebounding, and every scout, analysis and scouting report says Motiejunas is definitely allergic to rebounding, and DEF.

Only an extremely delusional fool would even consider that move.

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Anyone remember Morris Almond? 6′6″ 225 Sharpshooter who last played in Italy. Any chance we see him come back to the states and give the NBA another go?

He is former high school teammate of Josh at McEachern. He had a league record 51 points in the NBDL in ‘09 and was waived by the Magic in the 09-10 training camp. Rice grade drafted by the Jazz, round 1, selection #25 in ‘07. He has had a taste of success.

Possible addition to training camp here? I would like to hear more about him going forward as he has good size for the 2.

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Mr.
Trading Al for
Motiejunas Hill and
Thabeet {Sign Malcolm
THomas and move him
and Marvin to the
bench}:

“You think fans will pay to see the Hawks lose
and be happy because you had a *[white guy]*
who’s claim to fame is he was a D-League All Star”
On Kirk Hinrich:
“I love seeing white guys get abused”

On Omar Samhan:
“Big fat white guy who has no defensive skill”
………………………………………………………………………….

Motiejunas is a Euro, therefore he is sorta white, am I right.

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*1st quote was about Joe Alex*
* -&- *
*I screwed up my spacing* !

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i’m really tired so please forgive me if this doesn’t look good but.. What if we signed Lighty, Redd, James Jones and Aaron Gray. Then our roster could be..

Teague-Hinrich
Lighty-Redd
Johnson-James Jones-Williams-Sy
Smith-Benson-Rolle
Horford-Zaza-Gray

Thats 14 players so two would have to be inactive, I guess it could be Rolle and Sy or hopefully Marvin lol.

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Hey, would you take Denver’s roster over ours straight up? That would be an interesting scenario. That roster needs help, but not as much as ours in its current state.

Nene-FA versus JC1-FA….Karl vs. Larry. What I like about the Denver roster is what I think we are missing….energy big man, quick PG, vet PG, sharpshooter SG at times, depth at SF and SG, big salaries coming off the books….I think this team would be appreciated in the ATL.

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KenS, Josh (2nd in DPOY in ‘09)/Nene give you better backline than Al/Nene. I do think Al/Josh can flip flop in most of the numbers, but when it comes to defense…..its all about Josh IMO.

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Mr.
Trading Al for
Motiejunas Hill and
Thabeet {Sign Malcolm
THomas and move him
and Marvin to the
bench}:

I was bringing attn to the fact that you were
making the observation that certain players were white
so I decided that perhaps you had a certan bias toward
or maybe a prejudice against said players
simply due to pigmentation, while certainly that plays into
whether or not a basketball man is athletic or not
given the fact that Joe Alexander can only leap a mere…..
38 and 1/2 inches off the floor while Amar`e Stoudemire,
- (for example) -
only bounds up to a height of 35 inches above the floor
plus he is 6-8.5″ minus shoes, which sort of suggests that
maybe the people in NY are not getting their money’s worth,
(and does he not play power forward as well)
yet another point that has always puzzled me;
the following players:
Bibby, Steph Curry, Battier, Boozer [Alaskan],
Noah, [French/Swedish]
and especially Jason Kidd = white or back…I just don’t know,
therefore, my alternate point or conjecture:
which is;
“is a proposition that is unproven
but is thought to be true
and has not been disproven”
does pigmentation only apply to natural born American
B-ball players or Euros or both or does it not matter
to only one or the other, in other words, do you favor Euros,
then supposition would lead me back to;
whom do you favor pigment challenged, r e, Jason Kidd,
or Euros or I suppose the alternative, which you seem to suggest,
which indicates the darker pigmented basketball men,
such as Mr Thabeet, who hails from Africa, by the way,
though when it is all said and done;
Halle Berry and Scarlett Johansson are both beautiful women,
I don’t care how high they can jump !

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Mary Ellen -&- doc

Mary Ellen;
when I tried lookin’ up Lavine,
ol’ Googlemeister says:
Don’t you really mean Levine?
or someting like that.

Lavine turned up Spit !

I did, however, attempt to follow both trails.

______________________________________

doc;

“gd trades”

* expletive deleted…trades
-or-
* G-dad…trades ?

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g-d with women it is more about bounce than jump dude.

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I see someone mentioned Denver? That is EXACTLY what I was aiming for when I started researching these players.
Everyone plays their own role.

Kirk Hinrich the vet point guard who has but is preserving his prime by taking limited minutes . Teague the young Tony Parker-clone taking his lumps but turning heads.

Jordan Hill the energy big off the bench. Thabeet the matchup big that makes Jason Collins obsolete and can end Noah’s bullying tactics single-covers Dwight and makes Asik irrelevant.

Jordan Hill playing in his hometown versus Taj Gibson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d76A6IGt-mg#t=1m22s

Unless you guys have ever experienced being on the bench going in for 6 minutes and then DNP the next game or when its out of reach then you’ll know why these
guys don’t post good #s.

Would you consider Aaron Brooks a bust? he was traded bcuz he was a disgruntled 5′11 guard.
Jordan Hill was supposed to be Amare and Thabeet, despite his offense being limited to dunks and flashing to the rim was supposed to be Shaquille O’Neal.

Motiejunas slow and soft? He’s faster than Gasol just as tall and has 3 point range.

Which means even if he was as robotic as Horford in the post (sadly nobody is) a 7′1 Kukoc would beast from the perimeter as the trailer.

Horford cannot trail the break. Josh cannot trail the break. Slim up Josh trade Horford Rehab Joe Rehab Marvin.

I’m going to run the #s

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“We Play To Win the Game!” Herman Edwards: ESPN Football Consultant

@vava74,

I am with ya, coach has got to grow some huge BALLS and tell All NBA to suck it and play the 5 where he earned all his accolades! He’s got to git in there and bang. He’s strong and fast enough to get the job done, darnit!! The NBA media and coaches seem to agree….

Sund has got to find a scorer at the 3 who can make up for the difficulty the 4 and 5 have in scoring nightly consistently..

“Crab Dribble” interesting description……wow…

MC: I would like to make a suggestion to you that you start banning bloggers who resort to personal name calling..Its really childish and unbecoming…. This is not grade school..

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“Players aren’t problem in NBA lockout
Jason Whitlock, FOX Sports
3 hours ago
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Unfortunately, the NBA labor dispute won’t be settled based upon wrong or right. Greed, or the owners’ willingness to ignore its inherent danger, will determine whether we see professional basketball in 2011-12.

To my great surprise, the players and David Stern have done their jobs.

They fixed the game. The stench of the 2004 Palace brawl is gone. Without the traditional assistance of college basketball star-making, the league has developed and cultivated embraceable, ratings-driving superstars worthy of inheriting Michael, Magic and Larry’s thrones.

Only the uninformed, willfully ignorant and biased could knock the product the NBA served this past season. LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, Dirk Nowitzki, Derrick Rose, Amar’e Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Russell Westbrook and all the rest put on a highly competitive, highly entertaining, eight-month reality series that ended with a Dallas-like, cliff-hanger shocker.

Who shot LBJ?

Seriously, prime-time television hadn’t delivered this kind of edge-of-your-seat drama since Kristin Shepard busted a cap in J.R. Ewing’s ass. The mystery of what happened to LeBron James in the NBA Finals rivals the 1979-80 fictional oilman whodunit.

Ironically, a writers strike delayed the follow-up season of Dallas by two months. There’s a chance — the NBA collective-bargaining agreement expires at midnight — we could go a whole year without witnessing LeBron’s bid for revenge.

If it happens, blame the owners.

I’m not in the tank for the players. If you’ve followed my perspective over the past five to 10 years, you know I’ve been hypercritical of professional athletes and their inability to conduct business.

As a lifelong Pacers fan, I watched Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, Jermaine O’Neal and Jamaal Tinsley destroy my favorite franchise with immature, reckless behavior on and off the court.

I thought what Allen Iverson represented and the way he carried himself were bad for NBA business. Rasheed Wallace’s insistence on bickering with the refs while play ensued was a terrible look for the league.

I believed the NBA’s growth as a TV product was irreversibly tied to the health of college basketball as a TV product.

I was wrong. Stern instituted a dress code, clamped down on player behavior, tweaked the rules a bit. Teams tired of Iverson’s shtick, Wallace and Iverson retired and Ron Artest (soon to be Metta World Peace) became a somewhat lovable, well-intentioned mental-health advocate with a huge heart.

Oh, and let’s don’t forget LeBron James accidently transformed himself into J.R. Ewing, the villain America loves to hate, with The Decision, a preseason championship celebration and not one, not two, not three but numerous public-relations gaffes.

Things are so good in the NBA right now that the owners might be willing to throw away next season as part of a ploy to better position themselves for their first true TiVo contract.

To me, that’s what is at the crux of this labor dispute. The owners want to crush the NBA players union and get the players to agree to a 10-year deal that will in no way reflect the value of the league once the owners negotiate new television packages in five years.

Live sports are TiVo kryptonite. The only time most of us make it a point to turn on our TVs at a set time is during sporting events. We record and watch at our convenience everything else, which means we fast-forward a lot of commercials.

The best vehicle to overtly sell product is live sports.

The NFL, NBA, MLB and even NHL are all on the verge of getting significantly stronger as more and more homes are equipped with TiVo.

And you think LeBron James should settle for less money than CBS gave Charlie Sheen for “Two and a Half Men?”

The owners are hoping the players are shortsighted, immature and stupid. They’re hoping the superstars are distracted and disinterested and satisfied with their shoe contracts. And they’re hoping the rank-and-file decision-makers just want to get a deal done that puts $10 million to $20 million in their pockets over the next four or five years.

James, Durant, Rose and Griffin should be at every negotiating session. If the owners have their way, in five years those guys could be earning half of their true value and their non-superstar peers might earn 25 percent of theirs.

The game of professional basketball is strong. The product is good. Other than the tatts, the players have done an excellent job of repairing their image.

The owners have not handled their business. They want to take money back from the players and lock them into a bad long-term deal to pay for the league’s failing business ventures such as the WNBA, NBDL, NBATV, Eddy Curry, Gilbert Arenas, etc.

Yeah, if you listen to the Stern-approved meme shouted by the NBA owners’ primary television partner (The Worldwide Leader), 22 franchises lost money and, if true, it’s not really a reflection on the competency and maturity of the owners.

It’s LeBron James and the players’ fault.

I’m not buying it.” Arrogant and Proud= Big Fall …(Owners)

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“drmaryb (*_*)

June 30th, 2011
10:35 am

Who is It?

doc, honey pie, well you found more than I on google. I’m so desperate to hear something solid. I want a steak dinner, not an appetizer.

Hey SlimJr baby, no more teasers … You gotta give us credible names and links or radio reporters. No more blog rumors, we Hawks fans can’t take the let downs. LOL! But, keep searching.

Yes Dear….(smiling)

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KEVINM-Don’t be so hard on Sund. After all, he can’t make a move without the ASG, or without certain members of the ASG trying to play GM. If not for their interference, BK would have fired Woodson much sooner, and Sund would haved hired DCasey instead of Drew to be our HC.

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“I love seeing white guys get abused”

Finally an explanation for why you want the Hawks to trade for Motiejunas.

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“would you take Denver’s roster over ours straight up?”

Depends on what you think of Gallinari’s upside. Some people think he can be a Dirk-like scorer. I think it is possible. If he can become a legitimate go-to guy then yes, Denver’s roster is better even without Nene. If not, and if Nene leaves, I’d probably take the Hawks’ roster.

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Hilton Armstrong just signed a contract with a French team.

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Jamal’s productivity dropoff was likely a result of Josh Smith being in shape and playing with energy. Just like Tyson Chandler a defensive player who gets stopped helps players get in transition.
Everyone except Al’s stats dropped this year.
Smith’s weight is a major issue as is the insistence on him being a 4/5 bcuz of $$.

Jamal needs to go as he and Joe were negative defensively and offensively.

…………………….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tMLm-wxc7E#t=1m37s

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If you are following the details of the NBA labor struggle at all, this is a really interesting read about the kind of tricks owners pull to make it look like they are losing money when they are really making money.

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FIRE WOODY

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Hasheem has seen increased time in Gasol’s absence. He seems to be getting more comfortable on offense. He’s also fouling less on defense.
This is from a Mavs broadcast, so it’s not just Grizzlies homer commentators who see Hasheem’s improvements.”

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Cut all ties with Jamal Crawford…use that money to get younger with guys
like J. R. Smith and Aaron Aflalo..Kwame Brown should be Hawks starting center backed up by Aaron Gray/Zsa Zsa..Great posts by Buddy Grizzard
and Grandad.I would offer Josh for chris Kaman, salarys match.

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David McDavid just liquidated a lot of stock at the end of Q2. He is going to buy the Hawks on Tuesday.

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*[ " Coach 'im up ! " ]

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“needs more ass” lol, maybe he Al will give him some

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Larry Coon had a very good read on the labor sit.
Owners opened their books.
The players felt the books were disingenuous.

“In other words, $41.5 million of the Nets’ $49 million operating loss in 2005, and $40.2 million of its $57.4 million in 2006, is there simply to make the books balance. It is part of the purchase price of the team, being expensed each year. This doesn’t mean they cooked their books, or that they tried to pull a fast one on the players. It is part of the generally accepted accounting practice to transfer expenses from the acquisition to the profit and loss over a certain time period”

“the players would argue that it isn’t their responsibility when teams mismanage their franchises, nor for the portion of debt that is unrelated to the actual basketball operations of the teams.
In either case their argument is the same: some issues simply aren’t the players’ problem. Unless the players can share in the profit when a team is sold, they don’t want to be burdened with the costs associated with buying the team in the first place. And if they don’t have a say in the team’s management decisions, they don’t want to pay the cost when those decisions go awry.”

“As these financial documents show, the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle. And so, sooner or later, will the solution.”

___________________________________________________________

When he started using words like
-extrapolate & amortorize-
I knew I was in over my head.

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Grandad,

Since you like player comparisons who do you think is a better player Reggie Miller or Ray Allen?I went to school at UCONN with Ray Allen. Actually very cool guy. Reggie Miller always suprsed me because when he shot after his shot was released he crossed his arms never expected shots like those to go in.

Also, does this Hawks team remind you of any Hawks team of the past?

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Mr.
Trading Al for
Motiejunas Hill and
Thabeet {Sign Malcolm
THomas and move him
and Marvin to the
bench}:

Marvin’s got enough to go around;
Ajinca, Benson, Malcolm Thomas, et al,
with plenty left over !

If somebody told Marv;
– to haul ass –
he’d have to make two trips !

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That Twitter rant from Gilbert Arenas is pretty accurate actually. The single biggest problem in the NBA labor dispute is the lack of a workable revenue sharing agreement between the teams, which is a problem the owners have to figure out with each other. If the NBA had the NFL’s revenue sharing model, and the owners of big market teams were forced to share revenues with teams like Charlotte and Indiana, the labor situation wouldn’t be nearly as dire.

And owners know that the public is not going to sympathize with the players — particularly in a league whose most recognizable players are minorities with tattoos — so they know that from a PR standpoint scapegoating the players and trying to get them to pay up instead of solving the revenue sharing problem amongst themselves is a workable strategy.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH17qPORdu0#t=0m54s
^^^
can Hasheem use 6 fouls for Dwight? yes.
can he flash to the rim when Carlos Boozer is guarding him?

What were we 10 and 0 when Jason Collins scored lol. Horford cant cut it in the playoff’s 7 points and {4 rebounds} wont cut it.

I wish he doesnt make the All Star Game just to see how the popular media shifts. By then nobody will want to trade multiple above average players for Horford and Hawks will be back to 1990s.

Unless this trade is made the Hinrich for a pick will set the Hawks back 10 years.

Playing big raises everybody’s percentages pushes Marvin to be a possibly faster slasher than Joe on the bench and with [Malcolm Thomas] he’ll have a better shooting sleeker Josh Smith-Taj Gibson type who can play inside out.
Imagine if Deng had to guard Malcolm Thomas AND Josh Smith the whole game.
CAVEAT: Smith when 236 lbs was heavy and looked slow but his #s were as good as Iguodala’s. He reached 15.5% Win Contributions.
That means every 6 games he was helping us win 1 game.

He ended up with 9.3 games. Carmelo Anthony’s career season 21yo – 9.3 wins.

Jeff Teague (13%*)/Kirk Hinrich (13%)
Joe Johnson (13%*)/Marvin Williams (13%)
236 – Josh Smith(13%)/ Malcolm Thomas (13%) – Richard Jefferson is 16% for his career
x* / x*
x* / x*
48 minutes per game* 77 games/ 48 * (13%)= 7.5 wins.

That means if we filled out the team with Taj Gibson, Marreese Speights (rookie year), Iguodala/Gerald Wallace type, josh Smith type role players we’d be a
50 win team over 77 games.

that works out to a 53 win team.

Thabeet was 11% his rookie season playing with frikkin Zach Randolph OJ MAyo and Demmaree Carrol defending.

Heck I think Marc Gasol played power forward.

Brook Lopez is 11% Center and will be payed millions for his offense

* x (PF)= D.J. White, Taj Gibson, Jordan Hill, Marreese Speights, Chris Andersen, Kevin Love, Greg Monroe,
* x (C)= Al Horford (18%),

guys who arent above 12% or 13% WS – Monta Ellis (3%), Chris Kaman – 6%

JOSH SMITH UNLOCKS OUR TEAM’s POTENTIAL
(minus slow Al)
When 230 lbs we have the defensive equivalent of Carmelo Anthony at his peak and we want to trade him for a 28 yo Chris Kaman.

“Just wait for Keith Benson to grow into his 23 yo body” lol wut. Hawks Franchise should be ashamed of themselves.

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“What were we 10 and 0 when Jason Collins scored lol. Horford cant cut it in the playoff’s 7 points and {4 rebounds} wont cut it.

I wish he doesnt make the All Star Game just to see how the popular media shifts. By then nobody will want to trade multiple above average players for Horford and Hawks will be back to 1990s.”

Wow, interesting take on All NBA?

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brig

Ray Allen;
and I’m glad you brought up the both of them,
as I would much prefer either,
over D.Wade who’s a non-shot maker. [perimeter]
(I like my two guards to make shots from outside)
I chose Ray Al because he has a ring and at least
since he became a Celt he is the better defender.

__________________________________________

I remember -no- Hawks team like this one.
Most Hawks teams have at the very least had balance.
This one (this bunch) is maybe the 4th most talented group.
[of Atl Hawks]
The mis-matched parts are unusual.
I consider Balance as an integral component to success.

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Grandad,

I actually agree with you I like two guard that can make shots as well. Kevin Martin is a good one as well as Allan Houston from years back before his knees gave out. One thing I want to bring out I much prefer skill players over athletic ones. An example or two examples of that are Paul Pierce and Joe Johnson and even Dirk. Sometimes they arent graceful and they arent fast but they can get their shot off and can create. Bird was like that even Magic. Even Duncan that is why he is called Fundamentals. Remember Sabonis who played for the Blazers?What a tremendous player he was and he can to Portland after his Prime. Also you know who is a player I think is very underrated is Luis Scola Good player and can score on the blocks and doesnt rush things and is a good passer. He is a more skilled version of Zaza. I would be very interested if he ever came on the Hawks the type of team they would become.

I also agree with balance is integral for a team.

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NBA lockout! 22 teams losing money. Whose fault is that?

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how awesome would it be if we could do an ownership style like the green bay packers have. we could sell shares off and we’d set a cap so no one single person could have majority control of the franchise. we’d vote a club president to represent us in owner meetings. I dont know if the NBAs ownership rules are like the NFLs where they only allow 32 owners and at least one has to have a minimum 30% stake. it would be amazing if they had sold shares off and it was a public owned team. i dont have much money but id definitley buy as many shares as i could. im sure all of us bloggers would account for a lot of the public owned shares and i know our first moves, fire Sund, fire LD, and trade marvin for anyone.

I got a disturbing joe alexander youtube video. its long but i only watched the first 2 mins and i know why he was a lotto pick. he has good low post skills. i know this is vs college guys but my GOD. give it a peek. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdAYyqSOuPc
he should make our team in the 10-15 area of our rotation

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This may seem like too much, but I wonder if Phoenix would consider a sign and trade of Vince for Marvin. I know Vince can’t lead a team anymore. But I refuse to believe he couldn’t be a great fourth option on this team. Having Vince for 2 seasons at $3 mil per, isn’t a bad investment when considering what the Hawks pays Marvin. I would actually be for signing Vince and Redd to go along with Lighty. You should be able to get both of these players for less than the annual salary of Marvin’s. With Vince, you have a veteran who knows how to get to the free throw line, and would thrive scoring with the second unit (Vince in his prime was WAY better than Joe- so he should be able to teach all of the guys something).

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I also wouldn’t mind seeing Shannon Brown considered.

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FIRE SUND
FIRE ASG

YOU ARE BOTH THE REASONS FOR THIS LOCKOUT

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haha JeJe 11:41

that malcolm thomas video is him playing against 6′6 guys. he looks as skinny as magnum rolle and keith benson. i liked malcolm at SDST, i actually had SDST vs L’ville in the 2011 NCAA tourney for my bracket beacuse i liked kawhi malcolm and their big wide dude. but if we are going to take a backup id rather take joe alexander because he is stronger and already has NBA experience and id feel more comfortable with him getting spot minutes than an undrafted rookie. i know joe got put in the d-league and chicago didnt renew his contract for reasons but i still think he can be more effective than malcolm.

Can someone plz answer my ? i posed about trading marvin williams for travis outlaw? NJ spent 7 mill over the next couple years and travis didnt really give them what they wanted but i think if travis comes back to closer to home(starkville MS)(among other reasons contender,defined role as 2nd unit scorer) he can get back to being a good 3point shooter and let us feel better about 7 mill off the bench. i know if no1 responds it usually means no one cares, but this is a legit trade to rid of marvin i think.

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Ramon

Duly Noted…..about LbJ.

I respect his on court -play- itself.

I will leave him alone for the time bein’ on other stuff,
too many people taking pot shots at the young man right now.

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FIRE LD

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vava

Respectfully,
Joe does not have to carry the burden on offense.
he chooses to cling to his fixation on Iso basketball.

LbJ, (whom I don’t particularly care for) Larry Bird,
Manu Ginobli, Kobe, Jordan, Havlicek, Shaq, (early years)
Rondo, Paul Pierce, KG, Rip, Barkley, Dave Cowens,
The 86 Celtics, [the whole team] Iverson, Malone-Karl,
all of Chuck Daly’s Pistons and Alonzo Mourning.

These guys didn’t take plays off, were leaders,
rebounded, played defense, played hard, hustled,
lead by example, and generally did not make excuses.

Some of these were not 6-8, 240 – but some were bigger.
Iverson was a mite yet he was considered the toughest
player pound for pound in the league. (voted by his peers)

I reckon my point is…I have problems that arise from Joe’s
lack of commitment to leadership, defense, and overall
playing hard & hard nosed B-ball.

You continually critique Al,
disrespectfully, I might add,
so I suppose the burr under my saddle is Joe.

About Al…try and remember the game in which Griffin
took him out. [bush league / cheap shot / flagrant / malicious]
Al got up and like a pro went to the line and made his free throws.
*[winning the game in the process]
That night he was a hero (not any derogatory name) you coined.

Funny how one bad play-off series, turns people against someone.
Oh Well.

At least we are in agreement on Joe Alex !

It is your privelege to call our Hawks by any name you choose.
It strikes me as odd to name-call one of own.
Criticism = yes…fine.
Name callin’…I have resolved to no longer call Joe harsh names…
even for the sake of humor.
I’ve never called Marv names, though I have made light of his arse.
[in jest]
Sometimes, our folks just seem malicious;
and the funny thing about that,
malicious was a word I used to describe Griffin’s cheap ass foul.

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We need to stop trying to fit square pegs into a hole.

“that malcolm thomas video is him playing against 6′6 guys. he looks as skinny as magnum rolle and keith benson. i liked malcolm at SDST,”

that malcolm thomas video is him playing small forward lol. The small forward is Carmelo, Marion, Lebron.
Big forward is Dirk, Gasol, Garnett we’re trying to compete with those guys.

The center position and everyone who can stick their hands up without fouling Dwight Howard and make it thru a season without getting injured.
A a championship-caliber seven-foot-plus player whose defensive rating is so strong that even with a negligible contribution on offense he still remains in the 75th percentile among starting centers this year.
A tremendous upgrade who’ll keep offense alive for teams.

I’m not going to lie Motiejunas as a 4 and Thabeet would only fit on a few teams. Hasheem can’t be the best defender on his team ala Houston/Memphis with Kevin Martin Rudy Gay Marcus Williams.

“Give Al more FGA and his % will plummet.”

We have no set play to run except the pick and pop. Thabeet and Dalembert can score on Dirk but Horford gets blocked by Stoudemire and outphysicaled by a myriad of 6′10 guys.

“Jordan Hill comes back home(Atlanta, Georgia)(among other reasons contender,defined role as 2nd unit scorer) he can get back to being a shotblocking Leon Powe he was upon trade before Adelman did his thing. I know if no1 responds it usually means no one cares, but this is a legit trade to reboot the Defense and Wins everyone says he wants.”
::::::::::::::::::
Just to let you know allowing 105 ppg prt 100 possessions is not contending.

That’s top 15 and points to tremendous flaws. Small ball, Personnel etc.

As a 5 Al’s #s are almost prime Brad Miller, but not Dirk like (super fast) and not Amare type (beat man off dribble or fineese).

Mr. Robotic

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Trading Al for Motiejunas Hill and Thabeet {Sign Malcolm THomas and move him and Marvin to the bench}

Recommend that blog monster be allowed to eat all of this person’s posts.

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Al is our 3rd best player. Nothing wrong with that. He’s paid as such. And as far as the playoffs, lets give him some credit on the defensive end. Bass, Anderson, and Noah all held below their season averages. And Kurt Thomas last year avgd a whopping 5 & 8 against us in that series. I think most here want Al to carry us on the offensive end, and that’s just not his game.

Compare him to:

Bosh, 18 & 8, with 1:1 assist to turnover ratio, been in the league twice as long, and makes more $.

Bynum, 12 & 9, with 1:1 assist to turnover ratio, been in the league 2 more years, and makes more $.

Boozer, 17 & 9, with 1:1 assist to turnover ratio, been in the league more than twice as long, and makes more $.

These are some of the other “2nd or 3rd option” big men on contending teams. For his age & salary, Al gives us equal or more value.

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JoJo,

Horford almost only takes quality shots (open looks, feet set) and in the playoffs, those shots are simply not there.

He has reached the maximum # of FGA which he can get out of the # of possessions he is involved with.

Also, last year, most teams were caught by surprise and their scouting was not up to date with his jumper accuracy (and still, better teams kept his FG% much lower which means that he amassed great FG% numbers against lesser opposition*).

This year, the opposition will be better prepared and will plant a guy on his face every time he is at the elbow or at the baseline and… expect .460/.480 FG%

* obviously this happens to all players, but I predict a marked difference for Al.

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Ken S, Ramon,

I would rather keep Horford and Al and sign Dalembert. But given the Hawks financial situation, we can’t afford to sign Dalembert outright, so our best chance is a trade. However, Josh and Al are our 2 best trade assets.

Vava,

If Teague starts (and plays well), I don’t think Al’s FG% would plummet. Teague is a penetrating guard (Bibby was not), so the defense would collapse at times, and he would have opportunities to kick to an open Al.

Also, in the playoffs, some of those shots were there for Al, but he was scared, and passed them up. I think he will work on his game and his mindset, and be more aggressive in taking those shots when they are there. And if he is aggressive and confident, he will make his fair share.

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O’B I do believe Al at the PF position will cause his % to plummet a good deal (5-7%).

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OB,

“Also, in the playoffs, some of those shots were there for Al, but he was scared, and passed them up. I think he will work on his game and his mindset, and be more aggressive in taking those shots when they are there. And if he is aggressive and confident, he will make his fair share.”

That’s exactly the issue, even with Teague carving CHI’s D, Al was passive and scared.

He has to change his mind set, including changing his mind PRONTO on playing C instead of playing PF.

Scared/soft guys rarely change their ways and his initial years with us may have been the remnants of the discipline and hustle play Donovan demanded from his Gators and the hustle that Noah brings every single night.

In spite of my coining of Al as “Diaper Al” I am first in line hoping that he reverts back to Boss Al (first two seasons), the guy that roamed the paint and hustled for every possession and LIKED getting his points out of put backs.

However, I simply don’t have too much faith on that materializing after he said that he was intendind to expand his range rather than improving his post moves.

People draw absurd comparisons with Dirk saying that a face up PF can be productive, but Dirk has always had an array of trick shots (pump faking, fading, turning around, using both hands) that is well beyond Al’s most fertile imagination of what he can become.

Al should realized that his game should be all about hustle down low, using his quickness, leaving his outside shot as a weapon to draw opposing Cs (most of the much slower) to open his drives.

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OBRIEN-There’s no way we can or will sign Dalembert outright. We’d have to do a sign and trade for him. If their priority is to wipe his entire salary off the books, there can be no sign and trade. If they are willing to settle for a player and wipe part of his salary off the books, we could be in business.

I’d settle for BHeywood, but he’d have to be a backup. I’d see if they would take Marvin, although his annual salary is higher than Heywoods. However, it works on the trade machine. We need a DEF minded backup center, and there are just too few of them available.

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Joe Alexander encajaria con nuestro juego y su rendimiento seria mejor que el de ese pato llamado Marvin Williams.David Lighty tambien tiene buena pinta,estamos necesitados de escoltas y podria ayudarnos para dar descanso a ese lastre estrella de medio pelo en que se ha convertido Joe Johnson.Pedir su traspaso a cambio de Monta Ellis seria la mejor operacion del verano,pero creo que los inconscientes directivos ni siquiera contemplan esa posibilidad.Por ultimo pido un ultimo esfuerzo para retener a Jamal Crawford,minutos para Benson y revisar los impresionantes partido que Omar Samham jugo en la universidad.

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On a lighter note, Mike Woodson is one step closer to the Detroit Pistons? How many Hawks fans will be eager to watch him handle rookie Brandon Knight at the point?
I can’t imagine what Woody is telling Dumars about his strategy as a coach? Bend, but don’t do anything different.

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“Can we improve?”

@vava74,

because of All NBA Al’s weak performances with hardly any significant impact on games positively for 2 consecutive playoffs run..

My questions:

1-Can the Hawks improve on a 13-26 record against >.500 teams w/o Al?

2-Can they advance to the ECF w/o AL?

3-Can they finally stop getting swept by the Thunder w/o AL?

4-Could AL be replaced easier than say Josh?

5-Would the record setting Blowouts continue in regular season play w/o AL?

6- Should Sund have considered subtracting AL and adding the #2 pick(Derrick Williams) to the roster mightily bolstering the scoring output for the team..Easily improving on being 21st in scoring this past season?
Hmmmmm…….

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KenS…I suggest signing a starting center, who just may not be who “most” would consider a starting-calibre center. We’re talking the same pool of players here, I think. This may be Jeff Foster, Joel Pryzbilla, Kwame Brown, Alexis Ajinca, Sam Dalembert, Jason Collins, Kurt Thomas, Aaron Gray, Kyrilo Fasenko (spelling???, Utah), etc…

Our differences come from the fact that you would start Al at center & Josh at PF, where I would start Josh at SF & Al at PF (against every team). Al would still get some minutes at the 5 (especially against the slower, smaller backups in the league), but I would START every game with the bigger lineup.

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KevinM, maybe so but Woody is still a good coach though. And he does make results happen. I’d rather have Woody than Flip Saunders. And for a team like Detroit, I think he will do good with defense.

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KevinM

July 1st, 2011
11:11 am

“Slim, only one hiccup in your questions. Who knows who Rick Sund would have selected with that 2nd pick? And as you know, #2 pick decisions are not very popular in this city and I’m not convinced this ownership group can make a huge decision like that. Not many of their decisions have worked out well….they are bleeding money as they say, aren’t they?”

@KevinM

That’s why is it safe to say the “STREAK WILL CONTINUE?”

43years w/o an ECF visit..Wont even mention an NBA Finals visit! 43 years???? Wow…….

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“Rick/Gearon have taken 2 of 3 options out of the equation to improve this roster. And those who think this roster doesn’t need improvement is apparently satisfied with the past. No one will take the Hawks seriously unless a significant move is made. Inserting Teague in the starting 5 will not be near enough.”

I concur KevinM,
new starting pg will make a dent but it wont make a bang…..

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Dalembert looks like a good candidate for no cap issue Denver. They have 28M committed and the following roster:

Miller/Lawson
Harrington/Galinari
Andersen/Chandler
Mosgov/Koustos
Afflalo/Forbes

10 guys at 28M…not a horrid roster, amazing in today’s league. Harrington is their only bad contract.
Looks like they can pay JC1 easily and insert him immediately with Karl. Us signing JC1 does not help us with anyone. He is gone outright because of our 65M commitment.

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KevinM… I don’t think those #’s include salaries for Wilson Chandler or Aaron Afflalo, or any draft picks from this year. But yes, they should still be in pretty good shape.

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Josh Smith started at SF every game in the Orlando series, and he averaged over 8 boards a game.

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@KevinM, do you believe we need to find more scoring especially @ the #3 spot say in free agency for next season? Or could it be provided elsewhere?

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@Trading Al + Sy for Motiejunas SF Malcolm Thomas Jordan Hill and Thabeet {Sign Malcolm THomas and move him and Marvin to the bench}

Sir, you appear to be a nimbers guy? Would you happen to know the Hawks record against Western Conference teams in 2010-2011?

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KevinM…Miller $8, Harrington $6, Anderson $4, Gallinari $4, Mozgov $3, Koufos $2, Lawson $2…These are estimates, but they do not include salaries for the other players that I mentioned.

But yes, I like their core and their cap flexibility. I think their bird rights on free agents can complicate their cap space situation though.

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slimjr,

as of today give me your top 8 teams of the eastern conference?

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a- been

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If Denver uses their assets and cap space wisely (especially with a new CBA), they will be a fun team to watch.

the Knicks will send Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov and a 2014 first-round draft pick to the Nuggets, who would get additional picks and cash .

Ginve the fact that Knicks were interested in JJ last offseason, couldn’t the Hawks have done a SNT of JJ to the Knicks for some of the pieces that eventually went to Denver?

IMO, Hawks could have gotten the Knicks 2014 first round pick, an expiring Eddy Curry’s $11.3 mil contract, and 2 of the players (Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov).

That being said, I was ok with resigning JJ, because I dont thin Rick would have gotten a good deal for him.

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Yea because JJ dribbles for 18 seconds, lol.

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this from stern:

The question of how that happened was put to commissioner David Stern, and his answer was telling. “I don’t know that it went from there to here,” he said. “We had a great year in terms of the appreciation of our fans for our game. But it just wasn’t a profitable one for the owners. And it wasn’t one that may of the small market teams particularly enjoyed or felt included. So the goal here has been to make the league profitable and to have a league where all 30 teams can compete. Since neither of those goals has been achieved, the owners really don’t have any choice but to do what we’re going to be recommending to the labor relations committee later today.”

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/feed/2010-10/nba-labor/story/summer-of-2010-led-to-thrilling-season-but-also-spurred-crippling-lockout?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl10%7Csec1_lnk3%7C74747#ixzz1QsCiVLl2

the hawks letter received today by e-mail:

Dear doc,

I wanted to personally thank you for being such a vital part of the Hawks organization and to reach out to you regarding the recent expiration of the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NBA and the NBA Players Association (NBAPA). As you have heard by now, the parties were unable to negotiate a new contract by the June 30 deadline and are now in a work stoppage situation. I want to assure you that Commissioner Stern, his committee and the owners are committed to reaching a resolution with the NBAPA and coming to terms on a deal that is in the best interests of the teams, the players, the fans and the game.

The ultimate goal is to find a sustainable business model that enables all 30 teams to compete for a championship, fairly compensates players, and ensures a world-class experience for our fans and the NBA will continue to work to reach that goal so that the 2011-2012 season can resume without missing games.

We are all fans of this sport and of this Atlanta Hawks team, who is among only two other NBA teams that have advanced to the Conference Semifinals every year for the past three years, and we want nothing more than to bring the Playoffs back to the Highlight Factory in April during our pursuit of a championship. We are committed to continuing our efforts to build a lasting championship caliber team of exciting players who also make vital contributions to our Atlanta community.

You will receive more information next week regarding your season ticket holder account. We greatly appreciate your continued support of the Atlanta Hawks.

Sincerely,

Bob Williams

my response:

i doubt the goal is that of which is written in the second paragraph. it is how owners can make more money and protect theor interests first. i dont buy it, as it is not a true business model. your goal is to make money and try to make it entertainment not competition as gueron stated earlier this year. if this goes on very long i will ask for reimbursement for a product not delivered in a timely manner as promised.

thank you,

first of all it shows plagiarism and a line of falsely stated goals in both the remark by stern and the letter from the hawks. the second thing is that any person of intellect who follows the game it has never been about making small markets competitive as there have been now nine teams in 30 yrs to win a championship and two or three of those were single winners though clubs with deep pockets.

owners want to keep what they can get on their own, keep from the players what they can, legislate how to limit the damage they do to themselves while getting fans and communities to pay for their play at the highest dollar they can in the form of arenas along with tax breaks and overall expenses paid at games all while bringing in tons of cash on shared revenues. sounds pretty good for a mens club that is a monopoly at making money not a business. from an article online it was also an interesting insight and look into how clubs “lose” money while “deducting” players salaries as a line item of depreciation like any business owner might use on its own equipment to the tune of half the years salaries. again, all that on increased shared revenues from soon to be expanding television contracts and other shared revenue interests. sorry, i dont buy it in short though i could continue on. what folly. let them sabotage themselves. i can remove interest from them how i did baseball and football before them.

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O’Brien…If LD is calling plays for Josh to be in the post, but somehow Josh ends up on the perimeter, then he should be benched.

Slimjr…If Josh is setting up on the perimeter (on the same side as Horford posting up), then Hinrich or Teague needs to come over and move him. And yes, I’ve seen Josh waive Hinrich off when trying to do just this, but again, this can’t be tolerated by LD. Also, I would limit Al’s touches in the post until he proves to be more consistent. Al’s strengths are his jumper and his ability to take guys off the dribble.

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I agree that we could have won the Chicago series with better rotations and game-planning by LD.

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Can the Hawks get this kind of production from an 8-man rotation:

Pts per Game – Teague 13, Johnson 18, Smith 15, Horford 12, Free Agent Center 5, Hinrich 10, Williams 12, Pachulia 5. That’s 90 points.

Rebs per Game – Teague 2, Johnson 4, Smith 8, Horford 10, Free Agent Center 5, Hinrich 2, Williams 5, Pachulia 5. That’s 41 rebounds.

In this situation we would need a free agent center to give us 5 pts, 5 rebs, and play some D. The same #’s we would be looking for from Pachulia off the bench in similar playing time.

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Slimjr…I think every current player on our roster has room for some “coaching up”.

Collins from last year is the only player that “is what he is”, and performed well in comparison with his expectations and abilities.

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you need a bonifide superstar too win the whole enchilada.. only 9 teams have won the last 30 championship..And the Hawks haven’t been even close? A darn shame it is………….

Some young d-leaugers and 2nd rd picks to replace some aging veterans aint gonna cut it…..

U have to aim high Sund.. 31+ years, that’s not going to happen..That’s why he was hired in the 1st place just to appease and tote the company line..Which is; we’ve been to 3 consecutive semi’s, we are just like the SA and Dallas with 3 in a row..Why are yall complaining? Huh????????????? Be grateful and come on down, spend your money and watch us get blown out at home by 42 to New Orleans
The streak will continue……Blah,blah,blah…….

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Sports Illustrated: Players face significant lifestyle changes during lockout

Insightful read

When the last NBA lockout was finally lifted in 1999, Larry Brown was among the lucky ones.
The then-Philadelphia coach had veterans like Matt Geiger and Eric Snow to help in the most unusual of offseasons, imploring young players to stay in shape while they were unable to communicate with the coaches and trainers who would typically keep them on task. Not every coach was so lucky.

Then-Cleveland coach Mike Fratello said goodbye to one version of Shawn Kemp in the summertime and said hello to a much-bigger version six months later, when the then-29-year-old who had signed a seven-year, $98 million deal in 1997 reportedly arrived at training camp weighing more than 300 pounds and was never the same in the years to come. With Thursday’s news that a lockout is about to begin, Kemp is officially the cautionary tale that is now a concern for executives and coaches around the league in this restrictive and unforgiving labor landscape.

“If you don’t have veteran guys, the rookies are going to struggle [in a lockout],” said Brown, whose team improved in the lockout-shortened season and survived until the second round of the playoffs. “You have to have leadership that has everyone ready to go when the time comes because you can’t afford to have guys playing into shape in training camp.”

It’s one of the many challenges of life in a lockout, with the players forced to forgo the luxuries they’ve grown so accustomed to while team officials wait and wonder what kind of shape their investments will be in when they return. The rules of this game are strict on the part of the NBA. Significant fines are assessed to any team employees who dare disobey.

Team employees are not permitted to have even remote contact with players, their agents or even their friends or family members, meaning the lines of communication between the two sides are completely cut off. Players, meanwhile, can’t use team facilities or enjoy the many perks that come with the NBA lifestyle.
“It’s kind of like sending your kids off to summer camp,” one general manager said this week. “You want to make sure they have all the stuff they need, all the clothes they need, and all the tools they need, all the money they need and everything they need. But then it’s out of your control. Some kids come home crying and some kids have the best experience of their lives. That’s really what this is.

“You can’t talk to their agent, to their uncle, their brother, some buddy of theirs. Nothing. I think the commissioner [David Stern] is going to threaten people with such an incredible amount of money or draft picks that people will obey.”
The awkward exchanges will ensue in the coming weeks, as players are sure to bend the rules if only because of habit. As a result, executives and coaches will find themselves hitting “ignore” on any and all cellphone calls that aren’t identifiable while others will have to hang up quickly for fear that their phone records might become evidence.

The list of off-court deeds that are done for players is often long, with team officials collaborating with agents to provide a support system that will no longer be in place. No more free carwashes or help with that speeding ticket you forgot to handle. No more free lunch — both literally and figuratively. And as noted by veteran center Brad Miller recently when he revealed that he recently had microfracture surgery on his left knee, even rehabilitation must be handled elsewhere.
“At the end of the day, the league wants it to be difficult [for the players],” one executive said. “It’s like getting kicked out of a club.”

Exceptions on contact will be made only with the approval of the league office. Players with upcoming weddings, for example, must submit a list of names of attendees who work for the NBA in order to help their guests avoid reprimand. But there will be no forgiveness for seemingly innocent mistakes. The onus is on team employees to avoid putting themselves in the same locale as players or communicate with them in any way. One GM estimated a $1 million fine for contact with players.
“What it amounts to,” another GM said, “is that before you go do anything [involving a player], you’d better check with the league office.”

Friendships can and will be tested during these times, too. One executive expressed concern that a player who isn’t educated on these rules might take it personally when a team employee essentially pretends he doesn’t exist.
“Eighty percent of the league doesn’t know what they’re facing right now,” one of the GMs said regarding the players.

Teams have been preparing for this day for months, many of them issuing a script of sorts that details the preferred offseason training program and desired goals to achieve for that particular player and some making last-minute trips to check in with players around the country. In truth, the training and how it is handled is less of a concern for teams now than it will be later.
“[Players] aren’t going to adjust what they would normally do in July and August,” one of the GMs said. “Where it really gets tricky is when October has come and gone, and then it’s a matter of ‘How hard do I push it? Am I going to do two-a-days in October when we might not start until January? Do I take my foot off the gas, then I get a phone call and camp starts in a week and I’m not where I needed to be?’”

The players’ inability to use team facilities is likely to be a boon for business at places like Impact Academy in Las Vegas, where trainer Joe Abunassar has already seen an increase in NBA clientele in recent months as the looming lockout neared. It’s on the shortlist of hoops hubs that will now be called home for so many players, joining Tim Grover’s facility in Chicago and the IMG Academy in Bradenton, Fla.
Some agents with a longer list of clients have partnerships that will come in handy now, such as Mark Bartelstein with trainer Don Maclean at the 360 Health Club outside Los Angeles and Arn Tellem with trainer Rob McClanahan in Santa Monica. But numerous front-office sources who spoke to SI.com for this story were skeptical that players would be disciplined enough to stay in shape throughout a prolonged lockout.

“We’re making sure our guys are set up in their workout programs, that they’re prepared to be working on their games and improving their bodies,” Bartelstein said. “And then we’ll look at other opportunities that we think could come up for players, whether it’s playing in exhibition games, traveling abroad. There are all kinds of things that could be coming down the road.”
There will be plenty of time to pursue such ideas — especially considering the monumental gap that must be bridged between the two sides. Most players don’t start missing checks until November because of the pay schedule, leading to an assumption that the pressure to get a deal done won’t truly increase until then.

“If the league is going to take the position that they’re currently taking, it’s going to be a long [lockout],” Bartelstein said. “It’s very Draconian. That’s the only way to describe it. When you’re doing a deal, you know when someone wants to make a deal or doesn’t want to make a deal. And it’s hard to feel any comfort that the league is really interested in making a deal at this point.

“The players’ association made a heck of a move to go from 57 to 54 percent [on basketball-related income being paid to players in a recent proposal]. That was an unbelievable gesture that actually surprised me. And for the league to say that they made a modest proposal tells you everything you need to know right there.”

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w … z1QojdAIJG

Thankfully i dont think we’ll have to worry about our players staying in shape

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yep..^^^^^^

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slimjr,

also i know you wanted Derrick Williams but we know that isnt going to happen. Tell me if you are Sund what would you do and give me what you think would be realistic moves

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slimjr,

you know the nba three point line is further than the college one?your baing that because he is higher percentage points but you think he is going to be a better three point shooter than Ray Allen?

“Dirk has been trying for what 12-13 years? And w/o Tyson, Jason,and Marion he comes up empty again..In fact his game 6 #’s were not that great at all”

But my point is that they do have tysen Jason and Marion, that is why they won you cant discount that.

I agree that Miami will win some chips but why would u do to make the team better right now minus there is a lockout because we know there is one

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DW shot 56.8%, RA shot 46% from college 3pt. line..

Also Dirk has a Hall of famer in KID!

Cuban with the 2nd highest payroll in the NBA! Got to spend to win… lol…

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Ken Strickland,

“Part of the reason Josh ends up on the perimeter is he clears out when JJ and Jamal decides to go ISO. Neither player is particularly good at using their speed and quickness to beat anyone off the dribble. In fact, they use their dribbling ability to beat people off the dribble, which usually requires clearouts and time consuming ball pounding.”

Totally agree. Josh is on the perimeter most of the time because of the bad offense we run, and the iso offense that we run when Joe and Jamal go iso.

“Marvin can solve his problem, but not if he has to beat his man off the dribble. However, if posted up near the basket, he can get into the lane, plant both feet and elevate. He’s shown a very good postup jump hook, as well as a very good running hook, which he seldom uses. Both he and JJ should be routinely posted up near the lane, rather than being required to take their man off the dribble.”

Marvin is possibly the worst post up player I have ever seen for his size, and wingspan. I do agree that if he would plant both feet and elevate, he should be able to take advantage of most matchups in the paint, but he won’t get that far. He will either stumble, get the ball stripped, or be pushed out of the post. His post game is the least respected portion of his game, and it’s not like any other portion of his game is respected. Teams routinely put small guards like Hinrich, Jameer Nelson….. on him in the post, because they know that he can’t take advantage of it. Not sure if we are watching the same guy, but there is nothing that Marvin does very good except shoot free throws. I know you will say that I’m hating, but I am not, I’m being very honest.

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I am glad that Sund did not trade Josh Smith. Sund’s role is to be a caretaker GM and I do not have confidence that he has the smarts to better the club other than in small incremental ways.

If I have little confidence that the Hawks will be truely competitive as long as ASG continues to own the Hawks. However if they are sold and the new owner hires a good GM and coach, then that would be a new ball game in my mind. The absolutely best thing that could happen is to have a new owner who hires good people and let them do their thing with minimum interference.

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Open letter to vava74.

My last response to you began respectfully,
and your retort did not come across as same.
Therefore,
my only choice is to speak honestly & forthright.

Your rhetoric is appalling though benign.
`Tis baseless, counterproductive and hypocritical.
[if coaching is to blame for all Joe's shortcomings]
-then-
[why should Al not get a reprieve as well]

I heretofore grant thee thou award thine wishest most.
The “blog-nick-name-coinage-of-the-year-award” !
for “Diaper Al”…..yeeeeaaaa !!!!!
* originality, humor, on target, nonpareil.
Question:
Did you get the marketing rights ?
Did you get the trademark ?
Did you get copyright for the book title ?

Yes, I am quite a smart ass.
As are you my friend.

You, as well as others on this blog,
continually cite Al as remarking:
He wishes to move to the power forward position.
(thusly, he must be a sissy)
To my knowledge;
Al said two statements, one time each:
(1) “I think the [4] is my natural position” [paraphrase]
(2) “Josh and myself need some help” (inside) [paraphrase]
To which I would say; I fully agree on both counts.

Here is my statement;
-Bold-
and I will not shrink away from it,
nor will I argue with you about it,
Neither will I debate it…with you,
-here it is-
“Al is our # 1 resource, our best all ’round player,
the best teammate, the best glue player,
the most respected league wide, our best rebounder,
our best scorer…by volume, the face of the franchise,
the most marketable, a great kid, and………………….
a better basketballer than either you or I are bloggers.

Put that in your diaper and poop it !

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have y’all seen LeBron dunk on the kid at the basketball camp?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3bUb72KzFA

some of these comments are better than any of our rips we can think of about the hawks, but i guess it shows how much people dislike Lebron and wait for anything to diss him.
Best comments I thought
*That kids name was cleveland-patters195
*Got to get some ego back after being walked on by the Mavs-jameson63926
*That had to be at the end of the 3rd quarter-popo96
*i know that game is called knockout but dang!-sweetblackgirl
*I think the moron laughing in the vid shows what type of people are still lebron fans-pgbruiser1

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MC, are you going to be out of a job?

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Grandmaster Jeje,

Hiphop been dead since about 97

Slimjr,

Thanks for the response appreciate it. What part of the Bx you from?

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BJ, i am from the Northeast Bronx, a place called Co- op City…Where the ladies are pretty……lol

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“In this situation we would need a free agent center to give us 5 pts, 5 rebs, and play some D. The same #’s we would be looking for from Pachulia off the bench in similar playing time.”

You do know unless you shoot 3s your #s go down. Are you comfortable with Al’s
lol @ Al being able to take people off the dribble in isolations in halfcourt.

How? pump fake left, pump fake right crab dribble?

“Can the Hawks get this kind of production from an 8-man rotation:”

no not without a superstar. The Bulls have a 10-11 man rotation. The Mavs as well.
Knicks Celts, and Miami have an 8 man rotation. They have superstars. We don’t.

Detroit Pistons 2004
PPG – 87.1, RPG – 44.8, APG – 19.4

Atlanta Hawks 2011
PPG – 86.3, RPG – 37.2, APG – 18.1

Chicago Bulls 2011
PPG – 92.5, RPG – 43.6, APG – 20.1

Pts per Quarter– (x4 = game)
Teague 4, Johnson 4, Smith 4, Motiejunas 4, Hasheem 2,
Bench: 20.65
Pts per Game-
Teague 16, Johnson 16, Smith 16, Motiejunas 16, Thabeet 6, = 70 points
Hinrich 3, Williams 3.25*, Mal.Thomas* (3), J.Hill* 6.6, Pachulia 4.7 = 20.65

Teague (9), Hinrich (3)
Johnson (9), Williams (3)
Smith (9), Thomas (3)
Motiejunas (9), J.Hill (3)
Thabeet (6.5), Zaza (

*= post/ Shawn Marion type threat

Rebs per Game –
Per 36 mpg:
Teague 3.1
Johnson 4.0
Smith 8.9
Motiejunas (x)
Per 26 mpg:
Thabeet 7.1
17 mpg:
Pachulia 4.5
Hill 4.7
Per 12 mpg:
Hinrich 1.0
Thomas (x)
Williams 2.0

That’s 35.3 rebounds with 48 player minutes left.

Motiejunas could be Boris Diaw or Kukoc on the boards and the Hawks still have 40 rebounds and 12 minutes to spare.

Hawks let the media dictate who they draft who they sign/extend etc
They have no credibility come postseason and maybe if Horford misses an All Star Game they’ll realize that they are not constructed for the playoffs. By then they’ll be a rebuilding team with no idea how to construct depth.

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Trading Sy and Horford mMalcolm Thomas Motiejunas, Jordan HIllm,

Are you Ruhiel from http://www.realgm.com?

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“His shot is more accurate than Ray Allens! Stay tuned…”

WHOAH… hold up there killer… Ray Allen is the leading three point shooter in NBA history. I think Derrick Williams is a star but if his shot’s that good he’s the next Jordan.

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Trading Sy and Horford mMalcolm Thomas Motiejunas, Jordan HIllm

Are you a poster on another site with another name?

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I like that Motijunas – Odom comparison. Odom is a bit shorter stockier and Motijunas would be lucky to average 8 rebounds like Odom.

But even if Odom grabbed a couple less boards and added a 3 point shot, at 6′11?? The Lakers would be unbeatable.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuj-daW2bc#t=1m45s

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I like the Motiejunas-Tskitishvili comparison and the Thabeet-Sene comparison.

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“Offer Josh Smith to Clippers for Chris Kaman…” – Steven A.

Tryin to make me a Clippers fan? Seriously though, Kaman is a career-ending injury waiting to happen.

“If somebody told Marv; – to haul ass – he’d have to make two trips !”

U just wrong Grandad… just wrong…

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Collateral Damage!

The fans are being locked out too. That is the equivalent of Wal-Mart fighting with it’s employees and putting pad locks on it’s doors.
I guess they don’t want our money, so, we will have to find somewhere else to shop.

K-Mart, Target, Best Buy, Dollar Tree – here we come! (smh). These owners are greedy imbeciles.

Their problems do not lie with product and payroll, it is more about operations management, profit sharing from TV revenue and mercandise sales distributive properties. Perhaps the official NBA Logo that is sewn onto the apparel should come with a licensing fee/tax and applied to the owners revenue shares, put into a pool and split evenly amongst all teams as well.

“We the People”, are taxed to death, maybe the owners should be levied with additional taxes too.

How about placing/selling advertisement logos on the uniforms and just go NASCAR, if the greedy little monkeys can’t get enough “mula” to line their coffers? Then the players can become running billboards for:

Resee’s Pieces
Kellog’s
Post Cereal
Gatorade
Coca Cola
SunKist
Tide
Michelin Tires
Puma
Adidas
Nike

“The Love of Money, is the root of all EVIL”

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why am i blocked. my latest research shows that Hasheem was a better defender than Josh Smith while on the floor for Memphis his rookie year!

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Buddy,
Kwame Brown could be that kind of big man who doesn’t get it until he’s into his late 20’s. I like what he brings to defence. Would love to see him trailing Josh Smith on the fast break.

If Teague continues to produce like he did against Chicago, then we’re one big man away from contending. Kwame doesn’t have to be a scorer….just active on defence. He can, if he wants to. I still remember Antoine Carr when with Atlanta, couldn’t catch a bus. He led Utah to a title when he matured. Kwame is bigger than Antoine. A risk, but a lot of potential.

Marvin just might have had his surgery at the right time. He’ll have plenty of time to “rest and recupe’. SMH

Lockout: A plague on both houses. Settle and get on with work.

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Maybe Al’s not very good, but he did lead the Hawks in PER at 20.7 and Win Shares at 10.1.

He also lead us in total rebounds in the playoffs, and Offensive rebounds, securing 25, while JJ and Josh tied for second with 18. ZaZa had 17 offensive boards.

For “Diaper Soft Al”, he’s still the best we got at what he does.

Not really a defense of Al, just food for thought.

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SteveW – Win Shares is a total.

Joe took 2700 minutes to accumulate 4 wins for us. He was worse than Marvin. Jamal? Let him walk he’s Monta Ellis- his wins = how many shots he takes.

Win Shares per Minute is what you look at.
Win Shares = how many games we;ll win in a season. & mINUTES played not efficiency

Tyson Chandler – 21%
Kevin Love – 0.210 21%
Lamar Odom- 0.184 18.4%

Al Horford- 0.179 17.9% 18.3% in 2010

Thabeet- You obviously took those stats from his HOUSTON “stint”. How many minutes did he play in Houston

an offensive minded team that is as deep as we should be but with the wrong players to execute defense? (Kevin Martin, Kyle Lowry, Chase Budinger)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL2EeNhnUoc

How many minutes did Adelman switch to defense? Did Thabeet play 26 mpg as a starter? If so who was their helpside shotblocker?

Did a disgruntled Jordan Hill play PF-C with him to cause mismatches?

How many mismatch minutes Steve?

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Trixx are for Kids!

SteveW!

Don’t bite! Life is too short to carry on and go in circles with an idiot.
Who cares about all that Thabeet nonsense anyways? As a matter of fact, all of you ICONIC bloggers should know better …

When you see a Troll?
Leave a Troll.
___________________

Meanwhile, throw some meat on the grill, have a sip of Crown Roral and Coke and enjoy the 4th of July – Weekend! Be safe!

Enjoy the Lock Out and the Cook Out!

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SteveW isnt that a negative of Al more than positive. Al played pf most of the playoffs. And on offense his responsibility is to crash the board while it wa Josh’s job to get back on defense. I think if you have a system where Josh is instructed to crash the boards, he will average double digit rebounds.

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/nba-lockout-battle-with-owners-should-remind-players-that-perception-matters/2011/07/01/AG0tJIuH_story.html

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Etan Thomas was #2 on the Hawks in win shares per minute. He had more win shares per minute than Al Jefferson. So just remember folks, if the Jazz come offering Jefferson for Etan Thomas we should say no.

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this thabeet stuff looks like a good punking to me. that can be the only coherent reason one would go to this length to continue something so banal and unreasonable. the guy has sucked so far and hasnt shown any redeeming features. looks like sean williams without the haze.

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The Hawks should stop the Josh Smith Trade talk,unless we are getting Dwight Howard. Josh is a solid player who is young and hasn’t reached his full potential. We need to try to get better bench wise and turn Jeff Teague loose.Trading Josh will not make us better.

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Gasol says sitting out a season would be too “weird” especially as the NBA is coming off a “great year” with the Dallas Mavericks beating the favored Miami Heat in the finals.

Gasol is playing in the European Championship in September, when Spain can clinch its place for the 2012 Olympics.

As for brother Marc’s future, Gasol would like to “see him with a franchise that has better options” than the Memphis Grizzlies.

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“never argue with a fool, because from a distance you can’t tell who is who.”-JAY Z.

i am amazed at how many people are entertainin’ TRADE HORFORD FOR THABEET guy. its like someone talkin’ about tradin’ matt ryan for charlie batch. lol. he keeps postin’ ish cause y’all keep bitin’. lol.

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“a concerned fan…”

spend time with your family? spend time with God? spend time getting a trade? go back to school? get a life?

there are TONS of things that you can do with no sports. shhheesshh!!

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thabeet = scroll everytime anytime

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Lame people.

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ANT BANKS

Mamma knows best, she had Too Much Good Stuff! LOL
Hey ANT, it don’t take 20 mins to make a hard boiled egg – just 90 seconds.
____________________

doc dear, I’m with you Sir … Scrollin’. Thanks for sharing that article about the CBA, your email from the 8 orangutans, and even better was tour response to it all. That was “live” and “good”.

I’m still laughing at you, F U N N Y.

The 7′1″ guy from Denver sounds like the Hawks are looking to go big, that’s great for the fans! Al and Josh said, they need some help banging in the paint to be any type of contender. Size with talent/skills as we all know, is hard to come by.

Hilton “goose neck” Armstrong, saw the handwriting on the wall. First with Rolle and now with Benson. If we sign Lighty and who ever else you guys like from that camp roster, we might make some noise. We just need some rebounders and defenders to sure things up. This offense needs to be revamped too. Double screens and pick & rolls with a lot of off ball movement should do the trick. But mainly, defense.

I hope everybody stays in shape, don’t get locked up and we should remain in the top 4 in the east.

I’m just sayin’. Shake the tree hard and hopefully Marvin will fall to the ground – hard! Change that core.

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“i am amazed at how many people are entertainin’ TRADE HORFORD FOR THABEET guy.”

It’s the summer and we are in a lockout. It’s not like there’s much else to talk about. Might as well make jokes about the insane trade. To me it’s no different than reading a post from Marvin’s grandma, except Flavor Flav’s Thabeet posts are much more rambling and incoherent (which is why I refer to him as Flavor Flav).

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The Peachtree Roadrace is now the biggest 10K in the world.

FIRE LD

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najeh, my point, it is either an exercise of futility or one of amusemnt. my hope is no one thonk it is the former as no one can be serious about it dry times as they are.

yes braves are starting to win the games they are supposed to. i really like their pitching, the defense has surprised which it better with their offense as it is. i was hoping the say hey kid would break out and uggla would continue to put up numbers. somehow they are now on a roll even though neither has been productive. when they do with prado healthy, look out.

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If I’m not mistaken, LD’s contract says his salary will be reduced this season because of the lockout. And we know that players will not get paid either.

So does the ASG (who claims to be losing money every year on the Hawks)care how long the lockout lasts? Would they be better off financially if we miss a whole season?

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Etan Thomas was #2 on the Hawks in win shares per minute. He had more win shares per minute than Al Jefferson. So just remember folks, if the Jazz come offering Jefferson for Etan Thomas we should say no.

Thabeet’s 0.045 win shares per minute would rank him below every Hawks regular except Josh Powell.

In other words Flavor Flav’s own metric of choice doesn’t even come close to justifying his insane trade idea.

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Najeh……………….

*(or anyone else who absolutely knows the answer)

Serious Question ?

Due to all NBA business being shut down:

Can the potential sale of the Hawks
be completed during the lockout ?

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Grandad,

In your I have this brought up from time to time. who do you think was a better player Bernard King or Dominique?
Also who did you like better as a player Karl Malone or Charles Barkley

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Najeh & Others

In addition to G-Daddy’s query, can teams still explore unilateral trades amongst themselves?

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“Can the potential sale of the Hawks
be completed during the lockout ?”

Team ownership from my understanding is not covered by the CBA, so I think the answer is yes. I would tweet that question to @LarryCoon to be sure though.

To answer drmaryb’s question, they cannot make trades during the lockout though.

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“Sample you used was after he was the best defensive ranked player on the team he got benched from day one, for a 6′9 Darrell Arthur”

7′ 3″ and he’s benched for a 6′ 9″ journeyman? Enough said, already. Other than Lionel Hollins is a lot smarter than you.

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Kwame Brown/ Zaza Pachulia

Kwame’s actually 25% worse than Pachulia over his career and he had Kobe and Odom taking attention off of him yet he still could not find a niche.
Niche is shot blocking clogging the lane blah blah blah

so Kwame Brown for 26 minutes (high risk – low reward).
Oh boy.
You do know that a big PF like Boozer can switch to Kwame just like Collins.
Hash actually shoots 10% better but whatever…

- Williams and Joe have never generated more than 14 wins together.
- Why? Joe is a ballhog and even before Jamal Marvin was an unagressive ball watcher being defended by 3s.

Josh was less productive than Zaza on a per minute basis.

If we had 12 above average players we’d be above average.
But we don’t we have a bunch of jump shooters who can’t defend and then a defender who can’t shoot,

Zaza is our best two wat player for his position. Not imo but in the regular AND postseason. Tyson

- Chandler played 26 mpg and had his best per minute because of Kidd Marion and Dirk’s defense and he Didn’t STEAL shots from each other like our entire roster does.

Then on the other end he got easy layups. 69.7% True Shooting,

Hash would be the same way with Motiejunas Joe and Josh and Teague.
Would Horford / kwame be the same way with Joe and Josh and Teague? No, none of them are athletic 7′1 guys who stay in the paint.
……….

Minutes & name
J. Teague (36) + J. Johnson (36) + Josh Smith (36) + {Kwame Brown (36)} + Al Horford (36)
Kirk Hinrich (#) + Marvin Williams (#) + ? (#) + ? (#) + Pachulia (#)

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“Worldwide Clyde

July 3rd, 2011
3:02 pm

Same team minus Jamal Crawford = Another second round loss”

Naw Dude come on World Be Clyde!! All NBA is gonna work on his post game and 3 pt set shot!! He’s an Allstar mind you? Yawn…………………………….lol

@Ray, just say no………x4…….

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I forgot about All NBA Slim. He’s going to average 20 and 10 playing power forward and the Hawks will reach the Eastern Conference Finals.

*yawn* *yawn*

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Grandad, reading your rebuttal just makes me think how sad it is to be a Hawks fan. We have an all-star ‘center’ because he is not an all-star ‘forward’. We are trying to figure a ’situation’ because the guy doesn’t want to play center. But does the guy want to be recognized as a ‘center’ because he gets all-star accolades and All-NBA votes? It is utter nonsense for Larry to give this guy his wish and keep him from defending anything with size and stature that makes him vulnerable.

We have 2 PFs that are best at PF and neither one of them is listed as such. It’s nonsense.

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Yes, for those who will say our 6 centers beat Dwight and the no backups….I think we were lucky over good in that series. We were not much better than them and they will not struggle as much going forward as they did last year despite winning 55.

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Al Horford’s counter move:

@Big Ray you said “Oh my God” when I asked if you’ve ever seen Al do a spin move.

He’s too big and his arms to small to cause misdirection. Ever heard of crab dribbling? Ironically he looks like Kendrick Perkins a long armed guy in the post.

Perkins gets shots off easy and can’t hit them (too lanky). Horford is stocky but has little to no dribbling ability or quickness in the post. The ball slows him down.

@Big Ray you said “Oh my God” when I asked if you’ve ever seen Al do a spin move.

Tall players can make someone overcommit and spin off them. Yao.

Horford is not a natural isolation post player. He’s not Amare okay, He’s not blake griffin or Zach Randolph

he’s a speed center who speeds the game up and averages 3.5 assists. When have you ever heard of a “Power Forward” who couldn’t post up?

He’s a stretch center. We add a center and slow it down.

Dirk- shoot 3s
Gasol- 7′1 Twin Towers slow but alters shots tips rebounds etc
Amare- quicker, longer, yet to win
Randolph- quicker shorter arms more compact jumper like Motiejunas, like Blake my goodness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfBMw3SAdG4#t=3m40s

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Horford is not a natural isolation post player. He’s not Amare okay, He’s not blake griffin or Zach Randolph

Never said he was. Hell, I know better.

he’s a speed center who speeds the game up and averages 3.5 assists. When have you ever heard of a “Power Forward” who couldn’t post up?

Three thoughts on that:

1) He’s still our top pivot man, like it or not. Josh all but refuses to play inside, and can’t body up to most bigs on the other end. Oddly enough, the lighter Josh is, the better he is (225 pounds as opposed to 235-240). Like it or not, Al needs to develop and refine two reliable post moves. Period. He can’t just be an outside shooter, even though he’s good at it. I think he learned that when the Bulls took that shot away from him.

2) Despite the fact that this team was built to run, run, run – we keep trying to slow the game down and play halfcourt offense. The difference between Drew and Woodson is Drew has a more detailed idea of what to do on offense. Both stupidly kept slowing the offense down to a halfcourt thing.

3) Al wasn’t asked to do anything in particular on offense in his first three years. He was asked to defend, rebound, and get dunks off of other people’s misses or the occasional pass when Joe needed a bailout. If somebody had been working with this guy from the early going, we might be seeing something different. There was no plan to use Al on offense until Drew took the seat. But Drew doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing with these guys.

Josh and Al can both play inside/outside. However, we have a brain problem. Al can shoot outside and doesn’t seem to want to play inside. Josh can play inside and seems to want to play outside.

Somebody help us….

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