Atlanta Hawks: Camp wrap
- The Hawks broke camp today and now head for the lockout summer.
- No matter what happens with the new CBA the Hawks are probably going to have to fill some needs by finding some values in free agency. They sure could use the summer league. “It throws a little bit of a wrench into things,” L.D. said. “We will just have to go with what we have as far as evaluating these guys.”
- We already know the Hawks are looking to add toughness. What else? “Shooters,” L.D. said. “We need knock-down shooters. Not the guys that are capable of making shots. We need guys that they are open, they get that ball, the opposition is saying, ‘Uh-oh.’ Those type guys. Whether we will find them with these [camp] guys. . . . We had some guys that are pretty good shooters here.”
- L.D. said the he suspects the camp was “very, very competitive” because the Hawks have so many open spots. He was set to meet with management today to compare notes on the players. “I will let Rick and them know who I like, they will let me know who they like,” he said. “We will talk about it as a staff and we will start making decisions. Some of these guys have other workouts. We will talk about the ones we do like, talk to agents and see if we can get them back to veterans’ camp.”
- Joe Alexander followed up a strong D-League season with a good showing for the Hawks, who have an opening in the power rotation behind Al, Josh and Zaza. “I would love to be here, obviously,” Alexander said.
- The lockout complicates matters for free agents like Alexander. “I guess if I get some kind of word from a team, I might stick around [this summer],” he said. “But otherwise I will have to look at options overseas.”
- “When I think about [Alexander] when he came into the league, he was predominantly a jump-shooter and he took a lot of threes,” L.D. said. “He hasn’t taken one three since he’s been here in camp. Down low when he has the ball he really looks to finesse and then muscle his way to the basket. I think with him picking up a little weight and getting stronger I think he has pretty much solidified who he is, and that’s a four.”
- Omar Samhan is a legitimately big dude–maybe too big. He’s not mobile or athletic.
- Ivan Johnson looked stout, athletic and skilled. Johnson was productive in the D-League last season.
- Johnson played with a real edge during the couple brief scrimmage sequences media types got to watch. That pretty much jibes with this take on Johnson by Jonathan Givony at DraftExpress.com
- Seeing Keith Benson next to Johnson and Samhan (and even Alexander) was quite the contrast. “It’s something he’s going to have to get acclimated to as far as banging guys bigger and stronger than him,” Drew said. “During his collegiate career I’m sure he hasn’t banged with these type guys on a consistent basis. With a guy with his frame that can put some wear and tear on your body. Certainly I’m sure he sees where he needs to get stronger and pick up some weight. But I see some things that I really like about him. I think he can help this ballclub.”
- The refs hired by the Hawks didn’t seem to be calling many fouls. I’m thinking that was by design. “We’ve got some tough guys out here, some guys that really look to bang and mix it up,” Drew said.
- Zaza dropped by camp and, like Al, said he’s not sure if he would play for his national team this summer because of insurance concerns. Usually the NBA pays for the policies.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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357 comments Add your comment
Buddy Grizzard
June 30th, 2011
2:15 am
G-dad… say it ain’t so…less athletic than Big Country?? Zaza’s game may be a little awkward but the dude can score and rebound on a playoff team. I was watching a game 3 replay on NBA TV and Zaza didn’t get much run in that game (I saw him get two rebounds while I was watching even though he was only credited with one for the game). But you want to know who was invisible in that game? Marv. He was *HORRIBLE*
Grandad
June 30th, 2011
2:16 am
JoJo
You were correct on J.Alex’s standing vert @ 32.5
-however-
Joe Alexander has a 38.5 max vertical
-only-
one inch less than Josh.
Grandad
June 30th, 2011
2:31 am
Buddy-G.
I was mainly just horsin’ around.
I really, really, like Zaza & am proud he’s a Hawk.
* Closest thing we have to an enforcer.
Mainly Zaza can’t get off the floor.
He’s skilled around the hoop, either hand.
Gets his shot blkd because he gets no lift.
But he brings much, much, more to the team than athleticism.
Don’t think I was raggin ‘ on Zaza too harshly,
he’s my guy.
Chuck Nevitt + Greg Kite…man they are hard to even think about
Big Country was a pretty good collegiate player.
Billy Paultz nactually had a long and lucrative proffesional career.
[NBA & ABA combined he avg 11 & 8] – career
[ABA he avg a 16 & 11] – career
Buddy Grizzard
June 30th, 2011
3:06 am
The Hawks will probably sign a couple undrafted free agents because it saves them salary. As with LD’s contract only being partially guaranteed through the lockout, the Hawks organization would probably rather sign undrafted free agents to $500,000 contracts rather than veterans minimum deals for $1m+.
And if LD isn’t going to play Damien, why not let Lighty take his spot for half the cost? Many of us concluded during last season that Damien should have been ahead of Marvin on the depth chart. But I think he’s one of those guys who, if LD gave him consistent minutes, he might become such a fan favorite due to his hustle that he would be harder to get rid of.
I’m definitely in favor of letting Powell’s and Etan’s places on the roster be taken by undrafted free agents. But if the Hawks are going to try to change the team’s culture away from the defensive indifference or incapacity of JC1 and Bibby, then Damien is not a guy you get rid of.
What the Hawks need to do right now, today, before the lockout starts, is call up Kwame Brown’s agent and tell him that the Hawks will guarantee him a starting position at center on a playoff team if he will sign for the vet’s minimum once the lockout is over. He’s really our only realistic chance to obtain a starting center who *might* be better than Zaza.
ntrigue
June 30th, 2011
3:10 am
MC did you get to see or hear anything about Jeremy Hazell he is a knockem down jump shooter?
KevinM
June 30th, 2011
3:56 am
2 rooks will be the max. Lighty and Benson, so Sund doesn’t have egg on his face boasting about filling a need. He gets the nod over Alexander. Is there enough room for all 3? Well, Marvin is still here, so I would say no. 5 pts in 18 playoff mpg….marvelous.
Larry’s doghouse in just a signature and a CBA agreement away.
JoJo the Godfather
June 30th, 2011
6:27 am
Grandad…Thomas had the same max vertical as Alexander and posted the better rebounding & shotblocking #’s in college. I’m just trying to guess here without seeing the two side by side, head to head, etc… I think Thomas has Taj Gibson upside. Just like Benson & Rolle though, he’s going to have to work hard & add some muscle.
O'Brien
June 30th, 2011
8:41 am
“When I think about [Alexander] when he came into the league, he was predominantly a jump-shooter and he took a lot of threes,” L.D. said. “He hasn’t taken one three since he’s been here in camp..
Memo to Josh Smith?
“L.D. said the he suspects the camp was “very, very competitive” because the Hawks have so many open spots..
Which also means the Hawks will not be active in free agency unless they are are vet min guys (imo).
O'Brien
June 30th, 2011
8:47 am
Steve W,
I disagree with those who might see Marvin as a possible SG.
A SG needs to be able to knock down 3’s (imo). In 6 seasons, Marvin has made 157 threes total, and is only shooting 31% from behind the arc.
A SG needs to be able to handle the ball without falling. In 6 seasons, Marvin has fumbled and stumbled too many times to count (although it would have been interesting if somebody had kept count).
Marvin is 6’9”, 240 lbs, and a wingspan over 7 feet. I think his best positions are SF and PF.
vava74
June 30th, 2011
9:02 am
OB,
IMO, Marvin’s sole use should be as scorer coming off the bench just like he did in college taking advantage from the fact that he would be playing against inferior opposition.
His sole assets (on offense) are size/wingspan, a decent/fluid shooting stroke and the ability to sell contact and get to the line.
This could make him a decent/good shooter off picks at the SG slot since he can’t handle/drive and is vastly inconsistent with his feet set and this way he could shoot over shorter opponents (since he can’t back them into the paint).
However, all the above – if it worked – should be worth only about 3/4 million per.
SteveW
June 30th, 2011
9:21 am
OB – I kinda disagree with the SG hypothesis for Marvin as well, even though he did play against Boston and maybe the Cavs? when asked to play that position this season. I don’t think he would do well there consistently.
He fall down to much to guard 2’s. Or really anybody for that matter. But he is a decent defender if his mind is engaged.
And yes, I know he normally falls on the offensive end, just saying.
But there seems to be a rather large contingent of folks on this blog who think Marvin is a 2, not a 3 or a 4. and if Coach TT thought so highly of Marvin, hey give me a couple of viable backup wings for Marvin, and you can have him.
SteveW
June 30th, 2011
9:23 am
“well’ should be in the first paragraph after play in my last post
“Fall” should be “falls”
Still tired
doc
June 30th, 2011
9:26 am
grandad chills had the same issue with feet and changed shoes with no further probs. i thought he might havea recurring theme at the time but no.
lol at dr mb. baby, i googled the same thing yesterday and got billionaires only the guy was the lawyer for one against warren buffet in their sec regulatory insider trading problems representing skokal. other than that nothing close to a bilionaire ready to drop it for the askg.
doc
June 30th, 2011
9:31 am
marvin shoild have always been a pf like harriton who he was to replace. he has the same body as our other two pf’s but with less agiity and atleticism so he gets stuck at sf with a horrible contract. who is running this team? no wonder he is a faiure, put people where they can succeed.
KevinM
June 30th, 2011
9:35 am
Marvin stating that he has had a surgery to correct an issue since he has been in the league is not a good sign. Is it something he just found out about? Was he just waiting to get through the season?
While I know guys get seriously banged up, is this guy limiting himself because of his ailment and staying out of the post area to avoid contact?
I don’t think he is a good shooter; he is average from what I’ve seen. He has developed a fallaway 18 footer that he hasnt mastered yet.
But then again, what is Marvin’s signature move? He does very little driving to the basket. For those who say he is not involved in the offense, and its someone else’s fault he hasn’t gotten the shots he is due…well, if you camp out on the 3 pt line and you never cut to the basket, you want me to throw you the ball? It looks like Keith Bogans and the Chicago offense holding your hand up the entire time expecting the ball. Son, get in the game and get involved in the action.
You’re 6′9″ and you’re cruising to your pension plan.
Compare Deng to Marvin…both play the wing position, both should defend fairly well. Do you see Deng standing around or do you see Deng cutting and making something happen? Am I missing something here? I think I am just tired of hearing how Marvin could somehow now become more effective if JC1 doesn’t return.
All I know is if you count on Marvin 2011 for your offense off the bench, well, Larry as quoted better keep looking for ’shooters’.
KevinM
June 30th, 2011
9:42 am
Tale of the tape:
Marvin, 6′9″, 240 (allegedly)
Deng, 6′9″ 220
How much of a difference would Deng be on our team versus what Marvelous would be on their team?
One more stat: NBAdraft.net comparisons at the time of their draft…
Deng – Grant Hill
Marvin – N/A
Is there anything else that needs to be stated here? Billy Knight doesn’t believe in other’s opinions obviously.
JoJo the Godfather
June 30th, 2011
9:43 am
Lighty & Sy are physically ready to defend perimeter players in the NBA right now. They just need some experience.
Rolle, Benson & Malcolm Thomas (my choice until someone convinces me otherwise) need to add some size, but I like the fact that they play above the rim, and have exceptional footwork, long arms, and good hands. Each player gets knocked for their lack of weight and consistent motor only. I’d much rather have those weaknesses than a guy that’s short, fat & slow, or clumsy with small hands made of brick.
KevinM
June 30th, 2011
10:02 am
“On a team of aging guards who love jump shots, ‘?’ is really the only guy capable of attacking the rim and getting into the paint consistently. Even in limited backup minutes, ‘?’ finished one-third of the ‘?’ pick-and-roll plays in the postseason and one-quarter of them in the regular season – huge numbers we’d normally associate with a starter.’
Can anyone guess what team is being talked about? Hint: it’s not us, but I feel is going to be the model.
O'Brien
June 30th, 2011
10:09 am
Speaking of Deng and Marvin…if BK had drafted Deng instead of Childress, maybe the decision would have been to keep Deng and let Marvin go (instead of keeping Marvin and let Childress go).
Marvin does have a good stroke, but he still misses a fair amount of open shots.
“We need knock-down shooters. Not the guys that are capable of making shots. We need guys that they are open, they get that ball, the opposition is saying, ‘Uh-oh.’ Those type guys..
Marvin is not that guy. Anybody interested in Jason Kapono as a backup SF and shooter? 44% from 3 for his career, and has had 3 seasons of 80 or more 3-ptrs made. And he should be cheap, because he is coming off a season in which he only played 24 games. Low risk, high reward (imo), if the price is right.
terrell
June 30th, 2011
10:22 am
Shooters? Do they ever talk about a posting-up? Guess JJ was right. This is a jumpshooting team. We’ll NEVER win playing like that. Wont happen. Gotta get some players in here with post moves. Dummies.
drmaryb (*_*)
June 30th, 2011
10:26 am
KevinM
Dallas and Jet Terry.
Rod from College Park
June 30th, 2011
10:34 am
Depending on Marvin is like waiting on a lunar eclipse. It happens one or twice a year. Marvin can not replace Jamal’s scoring. Jamal is on the same level as Jason Terry off the bench. He is one of the best scorers in the league when he gets hot. Jason Terry is not a good defender either, but Carlilse figured out how to not have him be such a defensive liability when he is on the floor by going to a zone. We have all stated on this blog that Jamal should not be running the point, unless it is an emergency, but our great coach continued to put him out there instead of putting the best point guard on the team out there at the point. We already have a huge problem scoring in the playoffs because of a lack of guys who can break people down off the dribble, and if we lose Jamal and don’t add another scorer, we might not get out of the 70’s in the playoffs next year. MArvin replacing Jamal’s scoring is almost laughable. Hell, Jamal might be the best true scorer on the team. Offense in the playoffs is a much bigger problem for us in the playoffs than defense is. When the defense tightens, we can’t score.
drmaryb (*_*)
June 30th, 2011
10:35 am
Who is It?
doc, honey pie, well you found more than I on google. I’m so desperate to hear something solid. I want a steak dinner, not an appetizer.
Hey SlimJr baby, no more teasers … You gotta give us credible names and links or radio reporters. No more blog rumors, we Hawks fans can’t take the let downs. LOL! But, keep searching.
KevinM
June 30th, 2011
10:36 am
terrell, you know this team, you know this coach, you know this GM. Why is anyone trying to see that there will be a different approach to the system that is here? It is the core of the same players. They are playing to how they have been instructed. We are not going to see an all-of-a-sudden reinvigorated team adding a new skill to their role.
Al wants more iso, Joe is Joe, and Josh doesn’t want anyone questioning his skillset. They have free reign IMO, and they aren’t being limited to certain roles.
The team is good against teams under .500, and for that I am thankful. The teams above .500? There is so much that needs to be done and its not just a tweak here or a tweak there.
Since Sund came here, the need has been to get us a C and a PG. Right now as it stands, Larry hasn’t given the reins to Teague and I don’t expect him to. We have C by committee because our all-star doesn’t want to play C. So we still have the same needs while what seems like a 3 year stint on being stagnant with bringing in a new voice as coach, and bringing in better talent. We gave more talent away with Bibby than we took back, but Larry just can’t sit a vet. That is obvious.
So when Larry says they need shooters, guess what we are striving to be?
OB, I havent heard a meaningful Kopono moment in a couple of years. I know he had a stint in Philly, but not sure where he is today.
You want a shooter? Go get Jodie Meeks. The Sixer backcourt is full. Jodie would be instant offense and is a deadly FT shooter. He is not a slasher, so don’t put that thought there. Meeks in on the 2nd year of a 2nd round draft choice contract, but when the guy heats up….
Another option, how much does Nate Robinson cost? He simply kills us and is on the last year of a 4.5M deal. Would Sund get punk’d again like he did with Grunfeld?
And Nene is going to be a full-fledged FA this summer.
KevinM
June 30th, 2011
10:39 am
Looking into the OKC roster, I cannot believe Royal Ivey is getting 1.2M / year. That guy is a corporate guy who is saying and doing the right things. Reminds me of Anthony Johnson. He knew how to stick around and sell his ’schtick’.
KevinM
June 30th, 2011
10:43 am
Could Sund go out there and get us Amundson? He is the energy guy we need at the C. He is deciding on a 2.4M option. Cheaper than Zaza, more energy than Zaza and would take Collins’ minutes if he had the chance.
Good stuff in hoopshype.com today…that Nene headline is a shocker! The fella is giving up 12M to get a big payday. Apparently, Denver is officially in rebuilding mode.
Fire Sund Please
June 30th, 2011
10:54 am
@ Terrel, Omar Samhan would be the perfect guy for post ups. He is loaded with post moves. The only knock is he might be out of shape a bit and not very athletic, but I think he could still make strides in the NBA offensively. I mean his weight isn’t no slouche, so guys like Dwight and Bogut aren’t just going to move him easily and get to the rim.
Joe Alexander is refining himself as a power finese guy in the post..
SteveW
June 30th, 2011
11:17 am
Rod – Major Co-sign to your post. Woodson had somehow figured Jamal out. LD never did.
And scoring will be a big problem for us come playoff time, unless there are some major improvements, or Teague is better than I think he is. I think he’s going to be our best PG since Mookie, but not elite. Just good and solid on both ends of the court
SteveW
June 30th, 2011
11:19 am
Read a story awhile back that said Nate Robinson was def. not in the Thunder’s plans moving forward. They may take Marvin for him, who knows.
SteveW
June 30th, 2011
11:20 am
The Thunder may take a 2nd pick for him (Nate Robinson) if we could swing that somehow….with the cap and all.
SteveW
June 30th, 2011
11:32 am
Marvin’s biggest problem is Marvin. I wish I knew what was talked about in his “exit” interview every year.
It should be, “Marvin, you are embarrassing yourself and us as a former #2 pick with off the chart measurable’s. ”
This summer, take $200,000.00 of your contract, and hire (Whoever, ‘Nique or somebody) and have them spend 4-6 hours per day showing you everything you need to know about basketball for 3 months. In the gym time.
Then take $150,000.00 of your contract and hire the top sports nutritionist and personal trainer in the country. You are to work out and eat what they tell you for 3-4 hours per day.
Treat your prep for the season like an 8 hour per day job. 6 days per week.
Marvin, if you do this for the next 2 seasons, when your contract is up, your still going to be an asset in the League. Somebody is going to sign you to another 40 million dollar contract to end out your career.
Think about it. Spend less than 1 mill. total over the next 2-3 seasons, to make 40m. Or, do what your doing, and be out of the League probably when you contract is up, or being for the vet. min.
Doing what we ask is a good investment for you, and for us.”
“And if don’t do it, your life, your endorsements (if he has any), can be pretty miserable until your finally out of the League.”
That’s what should be told Marvin in the exit interviews. I have no idea what is actually being said.
SteveW
June 30th, 2011
11:40 am
Draftexpress was uncannily accurate on Marvin.
His worst case scenario was Tim Thomas.
Not going to take the time to post stats, you can look them up for yourselves, but Marvin’s career averages are almost identical to Tim Thomas.
Trading Al for Motiejunas Hill and Thabeet {Sign Malcolm THomas and move him and Marvin to the bench}
June 30th, 2011
11:47 am
“When I think about [Alexander] when he came into the league, he was predominantly a jump-shooter and he took a lot of threes,” L.D. said. “He hasn’t taken one three since he’s been here in camp.”
Joe Alexander stats:
0.3 0.8 .348
5 fouls per 36 minutes?? That’s center level
USG% 21% Turnover 16%
WEAKNESSES:
- Lacks significant offensive polish
- Ability to create own shot
- Ball-handling skills
- Ability to defend position at next level?
- Lateral quickness
- Mechanical player
- Not ready to contribute immediately
- Jack of all trades, master of none?
- Unorthodox style
- Undersized Wingspan
- 3-point range
- Ability to create separation from defender
If this were the draft you’d draft a 6′8 offensive player that has 2 moves?
This guy is worse than Michael Beasley. You think fans will pay to see the Hawks lose and be happy because you had a white guy who’s claim to fame is he was a D-League All Star?
Hawks are #Losing
Trading Al for Motiejunas Hill and Thabeet {Sign Malcolm THomas and move him and Marvin to the bench}
June 30th, 2011
12:06 pm
DRtg
Defensive Rating (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); for players and teams it is points allowed per 100 posessions.
Championship DRtg past 5 years: 102
Josh Smith
Jason Collins
ORtg DRtg
96 108
Kirk Hinrich 31 yo
ORtg DRtg
101 109
:He missed 30 games 2 years ago and is 31 yo! Play him at shooting guard!
I love seeing white guys get abused
Joe Alexander 745 minutes played
ORtg DRtg
96 108
:Big fat white guy who has no defensive skill and allows 108 ppg! he can dunk though!
Chuck Hayes lol
ORtg DRtg
120 106
Brad Miller – 60 games, out till January w/ microfracture
ORtg DRtg
117 108
Hasheem Thabeet (doghouse, “doesn’t have a clue”) (+2)
ORtg DRtg
107 105 w/ OJ Mayo, Chuck Hayes, Kevin Martin providing “help” (being turnstyles that is)
7′2.5
Conclusion: Kevin Martin is the greatest defensive player “Dumb African.”
Roy Hibbert
…………..
“Offensive Rating” is a statistic used in basketball to measure either a team’s offensive performance or an individual player’s efficiency at producing points for the offense. It was created by author and statistician Dean Oliver.
For teams, the formula is: 100 x Pts / (Tm FGA + .04 x Tm FTA – 1.07 x (Tm ORB / (Tm ORB + Tm DRB)) x (Tm FGA – Tm FG) + Tm TO)[1]
For players, the formula is: Offensive Rating = (Points Produced / Individual Possessions) x 100
Points can be produced through field goals, free throws, assists, and offensive rebounds. Individual possessions are the sum of a player’s scoring possessions (field goals, free throws, plus partial credit for assists), missed field goals and free throws that the defense rebounds, and turnovers.
Trading Al for Motiejunas Hill and Thabeet {Sign Malcolm THomas and move him and Marvin to the bench}
June 30th, 2011
12:13 pm
@MC
who was guarding Joe Alexander? was it Malcolm Thomas (Josh Smith/Hakim Warrick size)?
Qyntel Woods (t-rex arms)
or Omar Samhan.
Either way Joe Alexander will never adapt to the NBA game well with his height/length combo.
If someone gets injured Joe Alexander to the rescue.
Are we pursuing a championship? We have one of the best sf defenders in the league and have yet to find him help.
Worldwide Clyde
June 30th, 2011
12:23 pm
Just like the Hawks to fill out their roster with D League players.
FIRE SUND
Bully
June 30th, 2011
12:27 pm
It doesn’t matter what stiffs they pick-up, they will not do ANYTHING in the playoffs!
If they wanna get serious, they need to trade J.Johnson or J.Smith and get a real center, if that doesn’t happen, the Hawks WILL get eliminated again in the 1st or 2nd round!
hawksfancents95
June 30th, 2011
12:34 pm
@buddy grizzard 3:06am post
you cant sleep? thinkin about the hawks future to heavy on ur mind? you did have a plausable solution tho. that would be great if we could pry kwame away from MJ. i hope he would want an slight better chance at the o’brien than he’d have n charlotte, at least a guarentee he’d make the playoffs. i would give kwame more than vet min and guarentee his starting C spot. we need a FA big man that is not a rookie and can contribute 10-20 mins on any given night. if we can land kwame we get an actual starter and he’ll be able to give 20+ mins a night.
as for the blogger Al for nothing trade (hill, thabeet, foreigner) no one is campaigning for joe alexander to come in and be a starter or even a consistent role player. some of us want joe alexander because he is athletic and could be an asset if he improves his game. he is gona be a 10-15 end of the bench guy that can come in for a few mins here and there during certain situations. and saying he is worse than michael beasley? B-easy is good man, i would gladly take michael beasley he would start for us at 3 no problem. i dont see your logic but im not tryin to start a ajc blog war so i respect your thoughts but i dont agree
Ken Strickland
June 30th, 2011
12:37 pm
We’ll likely have 10 players returning from last yrs season ending roster(JJ, Teague, Hinrich, Marvin, AL, Josh, Zaza, Pape Sy, Rolle & most likely Collins). The 3-4 additions we’ll add to the roster will likely be younger, more versatile and more athletic than the players they’ll be replacing(EThomas, JCrawford, DWilkins & HArmstrong).
Here’s how I see the Hawks improving.
1-Replacing DWilkins with a younger, quicker, faster, more athletic and simularily sized player like Lighty, who also players DEF, will be an upgrade.
2-Replacing HArmstrong with a more physical and versatile player like Alexander, who also has an outside gm, is also an upgrade.
3-Replacing Jamal with a player that plays DEF and can also score, even if not as prolifically as Jamal, is an upgrade.
4-Replacing EThomas with a younger, quicker, faster, more athletic and more versatile player, who also blocks shots, is an upgrade.
5-Having both Hinrich and Teague playing prominant roles, instead of Bibby and Jamal, is an upgrade, expecially defensively.
Bottomline, the Atlanta Hawks will be a younger, quicker, faster, deeper, taller and more athletic team that will play far better overall DEF.
Trading Al for Motiejunas Hill and Thabeet {Sign Malcolm THomas and move him and Marvin to the bench}
June 30th, 2011
12:49 pm
@ MC
Do these guys even have a clue about advanced measurements? why are we taking bottomfeeders like Alexander.
Tyson Chandler
ORtg DRtg
113 102
Chuck Hayes Al Horford Hasheem Thabeet Brad Miller Patrick Patterson
ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg
120 106 118 105* 113 105* 118 109 117 108
08-09 Troy Murphy Brook Lopez Darko Milicic Jason Collins Omer Asik
ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg
120 106 110 109 95 105 98 103 104 97
Jordan Hill Blake Griffin Tim Duncan-33yo Marreese Speights
ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg ORtg DRtg
115 107 111 107 111 100 110 107
Only one of these guys played with Josh Smith his entire career.
and only one of these guys shot 61% True Shooting% his rookie season, Duncan included even though his USG% is superstar level.
I could randomly choose three of these guys and split 48 minutes per game 3 ways rather than be loaded with Al Horford’s mediocre defense and this
Playoffs Opponents MIA, MIL, ORL, CHI,
39 games played 1385 minutes ORtg DRtg
11 pts, 8 rebounds, 2 assists 36mpg 108 108
Duncan, Garnett, Shaq…Amare, Blake Griffin,
The league isnt getting any shorter or less athletic to accomodate Alison.
Greg Monroe
ORtg DRtg
120 109
Trojan
June 30th, 2011
12:50 pm
I agree Ken, the next issue is will the younger, quicker, faster, deeper, taller and more athletic team be properly utilized.
FariwayOaks
June 30th, 2011
12:58 pm
@MC
Can you comment on Demetri McCamey and how he looked/likelihood of him earning a spot on the roster?
Trading Al for Motiejunas Hill and Thabeet {Sign Malcolm THomas and move him and Marvin to the bench}
June 30th, 2011
1:02 pm
@hawksfancents95
Michael Beasley was statistically the worst “winner” on Minnesota last year.
ORtg DRtg
100 112 – 2010-2011
102 108 – 2008- 2009
Wins Shared:
Michael Beasley: 9.7 – 3 years, 6698 minutes
Shawn Bradley: 40.7 – 12 years, 19,531 minutes
Greg Oden: 6.8 – 82 games, 1816 minutes
19. Michael Beasley-MIN 561 field goals made!>>>>>>
Field Goal Attempts
1. Kobe Bryant-LAL 1639
2. Monta Ellis-GSW 1611
3. Derrick Rose-CHI 1597
4. Kevin Durant-OKC 1538
5. Carmelo Anthony-TOT 1503
6. LeBron James-MIA 1485
7. Amare Stoudemire-NYK 1482
8. LaMarcus Aldridge-POR 1415
9. Russell Westbrook-OKC 1390
10. Dwyane Wade-MIA 1384
11. Blake Griffin-LAC 1376
12. Al Jefferson-UTA 1319
13. Brook Lopez-NJN 1309
14. Kevin Martin-HOU 1267
15. Danny Granger-IND 1260
16. [[[Michael Beasley]]]-MIN 1246 19 points on 17 shots!!
17. Zach Randolph-MEM 1188
18. [[[Dirk Nowitzki]]]-DAL 1179
19. Andrea Bargnani-TOR 1173
20. [[[Joe Johnson]]]-ATL 1161
Worst gunner in the league and has the height to length combination of Josh Smith but cannot help a team like the Mavs or Hawks because he plays ZERO defense.
Start at the 3? What’s he going to do there? outscore Lebron?
KevinM
June 30th, 2011
1:14 pm
DMB, my apologies..never saw ur response..yeah, the answer was the Mavs, but it was JJ Barea, who is pending free agency, and who sliced up the Lakers with no answer from Kobe’s boys.
What we have in our backcourt is similar…..aging vets who prefer the jumpshot, and Teague is our only hope, our savior, to avoid making us look so one dimensional. If you don’t think Sund is following this model, you don’t know our GM. He never had an original idea in his dome.
He is looking for shooters as we speak, and he and Larry will justify keeping Teague in a bench role for his change of tempo.
Another observation or 2…are they telling Josh to be like Marion and Al to be our Dirk? I see slot of wanna be someone else instead of us just playing to our strengths. Perhaps our strengths are about as average as our limitations?
Trading Al for Motiejunas Hill and Thabeet {Sign Malcolm THomas and move him and Marvin to the bench}
June 30th, 2011
1:17 pm
Hawks are allowing 105 ppg (every 100 possessions).
Teague allows 106 ppg.
Tony Allen (6′4) allows 101 ppg. Chris Paul 104. Chauncey Billups 107.
Hinrich 106 ppg vs Jameer. 112 in WAS with McGee 109 in ATL.
Hinrich has 2 seasons where he was 102 Rating or lower.
Hasn’t had 3 Win Shares for Defense since he was 26. He’ll be 31 next season.
Josh Smith is not Kevin Garnett.
You can’t just defensive crap next to him and expect it to stick. [Perkins/ Thabeet] pinning Dwight and then coming weakside to block it?
that works. Expecting a 31 year old guard to play 30 minutes a game and take over on defense like it’s 1999 again will not work.
Bibby was actually better on funneling defense with Atlanta. Both are backup players to Teague’s development and although Kirk is younger and can still pull some good nights off they’re better not holding us back (as good backups instead of bad starters).
KevinM
June 30th, 2011
1:25 pm
Is it me or would it really be a bad idea to watch a lockout go on? After all, we truly know how our team is going to end up…we are going to mix in very little of the new personalities and still depend on Marvin, Joe, Josh and Al to lead us to the second round?
I would like to see both Sund’s and Larry’s contracts expire as much as I want to see the team they molded this upcoming season.
And tell me how this impacts the NBDL? Are they a union as well and has the league say we are shutting down these blue collar players also? I’m not sure I can make it thru a winter season not seeing Antoine Walker’S comeback attempt in Idaho?
ATLFAN1
June 30th, 2011
2:22 pm
i wonder if we’ll be able to resign collins and crawford. so our roster could be..
Teague
johnson
smith
horford
Do we put zaza here?
our bench would be..
Hinrich
Williams
Sy
Rolle
Benson
maybe alexander and lighty..
Although I think i would much rather have the starting 5 be..
Teague
Lighty
Johnson
Smith
Horford
Fire Sund Please
June 30th, 2011
2:27 pm
Ken Strick, that’s what I see the Hawks doing. Wilkins will be replace by Lighty, if we are able to sign him(Which looks likely). Armstrong will be replaced with Alexander as you say(Strong possibility). I think Etan should be replaced by Malcolm Thomas.
Don’t even bother bringing back Collins since Samhan can do the same plus provide low post offense & hit the mid range. I think Reggie Williams should get a shot at replacing Crawford. He at least tries on D even if he isn’t the most competent defender and can knock down shots. Benson and Rolle are similar players, so I say cut Rolle and add McCamey
@ Thabeet for Al, Not saying those guys just complete our roster and make us into a Finals team, but we lack depth and quality depth is hard to find when you are competing against the Heat, Boston, Dallas, Chicago and etc. If we can groom some of these undrafted rookies and low risk-high reward veterans with potential, then our bench will be set..The Spurs seem to do it year after year.
Grandad
June 30th, 2011
2:51 pm
Mr.
Trading Al for
Motiejunas Hill and
Thabeet {Sign Malcolm
THomas and move him
and Marvin to the
bench}:
Joe Alexander is a white guy?
Well I’ll be darn.
O'Brien
June 30th, 2011
2:55 pm
Ken S,
3-Replacing Jamal with a player that plays DEF and can also score, even if not as prolifically as Jamal, is an upgrade..
Given the Hawks budget, they will not be able to afford that player.