Atlanta Hawks: Minicamp Day 1

First!

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doc,

Younger/faster fingers at work hehe.

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I’ve heard David Lighty’s name mentioned quite a few times on these blogs. I’m curious about him seeing as tho he might be brought in for defense.

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From last blog:

Marvin’s Grandma:

“Al is 20x better than josh, and when the Hawks decide to use Marvin, you all will find out that Marvin is better than Josh also!”

Career Season Stats:

Josh Smith: 14.6ppg, 33.8mpg, 46%FG%, 67% FT, 7.7rpg, 3.0apg, 1.2spg, 2.2bpg
Al Horford : 12.8ppg, 33.8mpg, 53%FG%, 76% FT, 9.6rpg, 2.4apg, 0.8spg, 1.1bpg

Career Playoff Stats

Josh Smith: 15.8ppg, 36.0mpg, 42%FG%, 69%FT, 8.0rpg, 2.6apg, 1.2spg, 2.0bpg
Al Horford : 11.5ppg, 35.5mpg, 46%FG%, 76%FT, 8.7 rpg, 2.7apg,0.6spg, 1.1bpg

No need to even put Marvin in the same discussion. That is disrespectful to Al and Josh. That sure does not look like one guy is 20x better than the other guy to me.

I will also note that over the same amount of years (4 years) in the playoffs, Josh Smith has 547 FT attempts, while Al Horford has 102 FT attempts. I wonder who is attacking the rim (LOL)? We all should know who the better defensive player is over their respective careers, unless you are just a Josh hater. I actually like both guys, but I do think that one should be moved, and my choice would be Al, especially if Teague is to be the point guard of the future. To whomever made the stupid comment concerning the highest paid players on the team, Horford was a higher ranked player than Josh coming out of college, he made more money on his rookie contract than Josh over the life of the contract, and he will make more money over the life of the second contract than Josh did on his.

Last point. Josh has been in the league 7 years, and Al has been in for 4 years. During the regular season over 7 years playing mostly power forward, and some small forward, Josh has amassed 1,189 blocks, while Al in 4 years has amassed 342 blocks. In the playoffs, when every point counts, and your PF and C should always protect the rim, over the same amount of years (4 years), Josh has amassed 81 blocks, and Horford has 44 blocks. Any idiot who states that blocked shots is not an important stat defensively, is just that, an idiot. Those are 81 shots in the playoffs, that had an oppurtunity to put points on the board, that were erased. But lets remember that Josh is the one who never hustles, or gets back on defense, and is a cancer to the team (LOL). Joe Johnson is actually that guy, but I’ll defer on that argument.

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I take Lighty in a heartbeat…he has length and he played for the #1 overall seed in the tournament last year. I was surprised he didn’t get drafted. All defensive team Big 10 first team.

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I didn’t see a ton of college basketball this year, but I did see a few OSU games, and although Lighty played on a team with several other quality players and never really had to be the first option on his team, I think he could contribute.

I don’t know if I’d sign him at the expense of not having Damien on the roster though.

Assuming Jamal leaves, there are five players under contract that I am confident will give the Hawks quality minutes every time out: Teague, Joe, Kirk, Smoove, and Al. Beyond them, you have Marvin and Zaza under contract who, on any given day, may give you good minutes or be useless, and you have free agents Collins and Damien who can provide quality minutes in the right situation. If you let Hilton, Etan, and Powell walk, and keep Collins, Damien, Rolle (whose contract is non-guaranteed), and Sy and add Benson, that’s 12 players on the roster which leaves 3 spots empty.

At that point, you would have:

PG: Teague/Kirk
SG: Joe/Kirk/Sy
SF: Smoove/Marvin/Damien/Sy
PF: Al/Smoove/Benson/Rolle
C: Al/Zaza/Collins/Benson/Rolle

I think that team still needs a center who is better than Zaza and good enough to start first and foremost, a fourth player in the guard rotation, and someone better than Marvin to be the best true small forward on the roster.

I could see Lighty or someone else in this free agent camp being that 4th guard… maybe. They still need to find a starting caliber center (Dalembert in free agency? A Marvin for Haywood trade?) and a small forward who can at least push Marvin for a starting job (Josh Howard? T-Mac? Caron Butler?) I don’t think either of those roles is going to be filled by someone in this free agent camp.

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kill em Rod..

is laughable really.. you dont even need stats to support it, just watch.. and we not just talking playoffs.. it was evident all season, past 2.

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Rod – To whomever made the stupid comment concerning the highest paid players on the team, Horford was a higher ranked player than Josh coming out of college, he made more money on his rookie contract than Josh over the life of the contract, and he will make more money over the life of the second contract than Josh did on his.

That would be me.

Josh didn’t go to college as you know, so of course he wasn’t rated as high. He wasn’t a phenom like Dwight or anything.

The fact remains that Josh made twice as much as Al this season, and will make more than Al the next 2 seasons before he becomes a FA. And inflation adjusted, Josh’s 2nd contract is worth more than the one Al just signed.

It’s just stupid to try and spin it to say Josh somehow hasn’t made more than Al. He has, and he will.

So I expect more out of the guy I pay the most.

So Rod, since Miami didn’t have a guy in the top 15 in blocked shots, and Dallas didn’t have a guy in the top 15 in blocked shots, and both those teams were in the Finals, it looks like your the idiot on this one.

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Trade Marvin for Greg Oden

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the W in Steve W is the W in his pants = sits down to pee!!!

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Sol. Heart Hawks – Like I said earlier, when I criticize Al, not much happens. If I criticize Josh, or a Josh defender, all Hades breaks loose.

I thought Rod played college ball in SC. I didn’t know he needed losers like you to take up for him.

Loser

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L.D.: “Lighty is a gutsy defender. He can defend maybe three positions. That is what we are looking for as we move into next summer”

Sounds like LD is looking for another cheaper version of Mario West (lol)

“They seem less certain about Damien. “We are still taking about it,” L.D. said. “We haven’t made any decisions there. We will see what happens.”

That’s Interesting; so, Damien is not a lock to re-sign. If you hear a statement like this from management in Corporate America these days, it’s a wrap, you’re about to be fired. (Sorry Damien)

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OBRIEN-I seriously doubt that LDrew is as stubborn and mule headed as Woodson. I think he got the message when Sund and the ASG decided to change the teams approach from OFF first to DEF by paying a ransom to get rid of MBibby. I’m certain he also knows Jamal won’t be resigned. You’re probably right about Papa Sy, but whoever gets the mins, Drew will have to deal with a backcourt that’s definitely DEF oriented.

Signing Lighty will probably mean DWilkins won’t be resigned, since we’d have a 4 guard rotation of JJ, Teague, Hinrich, Pape Sy and Lighty without him. When you take into consideration the number of SF’s we have in camp, it appears we’re looking for a backup for Marvin, assuming JJ remains at SG.

It will be very interesting to see the battle that will be taking place in LDrew’s mind concerning whether JTeague or KHinrich gets the starting nod. While Hinrich definitely has the edge in experience and outside shooting, Teague has the edge in speed, quickness, athleticism, penetrating ability and potential impact.

Since Teague is the long term solution at PG rather than Hinrich, Drew definitely needs to start Teague and let Hinrich provide the veteran leadership and stability off the bench. Teague is much better equipped than Hinrich to consistently get this team off to a fast start, which was a constant problem last yr.

Man, I’m really excited about the speed, quickness, athleticism, size, and DEF ability of the players that will comprise our backcourt. I can’t wait to see how much of an impact they’ll have on our overall DEF. Even though I haven’t seen it posted since Bibby’s arrival, we all know he and Jamal gave up a lot of PTs with their poor DEF, which obviously had a negative impact on our DEF pts allowed.

After coming to the Hawks at the trade deadline, Bibby’s poor DEF caused our DEF pts allowed to increase by 9PPG. His OFF also caused a 9PPG increase as well. We all saw his OFF and DEF dramatically decline, which had an even higher negative impact on our DEF pts allowed and PPG scored. Those will not be issues this yr, with both DEF liabilities gone.

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Most of the time, everyone on this blog is critisizing the Hawks players, Larry Drew, Rick Sund, or ASG. Well, recently you have to give them alot of credit for how they are running the Hawks. The Hawks made a surprisingly good run this season in the playoffs with Larry Drew as the coach. Rick Sund made a good trade to get Hinrich. Rick Sund and staff made a great pick @ #48 to get Keith Benson. Rick Sund and staff have assembled a great group of FA for this mini camp, that they are hosting, before the CBA runs out this Friday. Most teams were not “on the ball” enough to put that together the next week after the draft.

I believe giving credit where credit is due!

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You have to love Lighty’s attitude. Just the type of guy we need. Good to read Benson will reach out to C-Webb. I think at least two guys from camp make the team. I dont think Wilkens, Powell, Armstrong, or Etan comes back. Might be a lot of young guys sitting at the end of the bench rather than washed up vets.

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Najeh – I know. It was just a teaser argument based on the Al was an All Star, so he should out perform Josh line of reasoning. I tried to deal with that fallacy another way, but to know avail.

At this point, I say give them all a shot. Don’t trade anybody. We still don’t know what JJ, Teague, Josh or Al would like with a real Coach.

If we were to get an Adelman, or a Brown or Casey before they were snapped up, we may be surprised by the results.

LD just never seemed to like Wilkens for some reason. Even when Wilkens would outplay Mo’, it was always Mo’, just like Bibby.

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Cut into Sy’s minutes? I don’t think Sy has any minutes. I think ZaZa, Teague, Hinrich, JJ, Marvin, Josh, and Al have minutes, and sometimes Collins.

I think the rest are yet to shake out. But I wouldn’t count on Sy having any minutes yet. This is the same Coach who wouldn’t give Jordan Crawford minutes under almost any circumstance, regardless of injuries to other players, blowouts or what have you.

Teague will only have minutes because Hinrich and JJ can’t play 48 mpg. And he won’t have minutes if we re-sign Jamal.

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Caveat!

“Their free agents technically don’t become free agents until Friday, but we know why that’s not going to happen.” -MC-
_________________________

I predict that maybe, just maybe the NBA Owners and Player’s Union will vote to extend the lockout deadline by two weeks in an attempt to stave off a work stoppage and reach an unlikely agreement.

What a two week extension will allow is teams to release players and sign free agents, in addition to an unlikely agreement. Before anyone retorts, ” That ain’t gonna happen?”

Well, it happened in The NFL at the beginning of this current lock out. However, before Stern and the owners agree, it must be perceived as good-faith and not a muse/manipulation.

In short, if all parties agree to a two week extension, there could be a flurry of players released and signed.

Just a thought.

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Dept. – Got me! Great – thanks

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knight all.

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FIRE WOODY

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Dept. – Knight, knight, if I knead more correction’s, let me no.

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Rod:
“I really am not interested in most of these guys except Benson. Most won’t make the team, and if they do they will fill the Josh Powell, Etan Thomas roles on this team, which means all we will see of them is their fashion sense. No interest of mine.”

Honestly, Rod since I didn’t follow college basketball that closely during the regular season, I can somewhat relate to your comment. But since it is the off-season following a draft in which the Hawks only had the 48th 2nd-round pick and now holding a mini-camp to salvage a questionable Hinrich trade, this event is what it is. Any pickups from this camp essentially becomes our 2011 draft picks; having said that though; there is another drama here to keep me interested. For me, the focus is more about LD and his plans to re-tool and his maturation as a decent HC. This clearly puts the spotlight on both him and Sund. These invitees just happen to be a peripheral part of that process. It is your typical NBA draft experience followed by future expectation more so than past events.

Will any of the selected invitees get meaningful PT? Probably not (for awhile), but again, it is what it is

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Completed last post:

Noah, Brewer, and Deng turn 27 next season, Watson is 27, and Taj is 26.

We’re younger than Chicago, Miami, and def. younger than the Celtics.

We still have alot of room and potential to grow, if we will.

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terrell (don’t call me te-relle)!

Also, in college these athletes are hungry as a hostage. They just don’t have the necessary resources (or maturity level), to buy organic foods, supplements and protein shakes.

These guys eat: pizza, wings, fries and candy (etc.) At the end of the day, they’re just kids.

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I feel bad for Josh and Al, because the only NBA coaches they have played for is Woody and LD.

If they had better coaches, they might all be further along in their careers, and be better players.

I dont feel bad for Marvin, because only Marvin (and “it was not a bad pick”) can make marvin better.

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Rod from CP!

Excellent post from the previous blog! Brilliant work. (*_*)
I really enjoyed reading all the stats and facts. I read it twice.

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Also, Sign Al Thorton (UFA). He is better than damien.

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THIS POST IS IN HONOR OF MY MENTOR WORLDWIDE CLYDE THE GLIDE

FIRE RICK SUND

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I feel bad for Josh and Al, because the only NBA coaches they have played for is Woody and LD.

I dont feel bad for Marvin, because only Marvin (and “it was not a bad pick”) can make marvin better.

Not sure why it is that Sund and Co. have to think about whether or not to keep Damien Wilkens around. Do they have another SG/SF who can defend that well, that can also hit a shot or two and doesn’t hurt you when he’s in the game (while also not complaining about minutes)?

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All NBA Al will get abused at the 4….Awesome……

Al or Josh will be traded next year….

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The new owners of the Hawks are Slim and Baby from Cash Money Records.

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Ditto drmaryb …. The very charm & constant allure of this blog …. is it’s variety !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I sincerelly don’t understand why this continued criticism of JJ after these year’s playoffs.

The guy showed up, on both ends of the court. Was just a notch under his averages and was fundamental on all wins we got.

If someone was a major disappointment during the playoffs, that guy was Diaper Al who was exposed as a one dimensional offensive player which has no balls and shies away from the contact that playoff basketball implies.

If you were thinking that JJ by signing a 100+ million contract would suddenly morph into Kobe or Wade, think again. He was never that type of player, but he still is a heck of a player ON BOTH ENDS of the floor.

Good grief… We went into the playoffs with a perimeter oriented offense, guided by LD who was thoroughly out coached, Diaper Al doesn’t show up (with the exception of garbage rebounding), Jamal disappears after game 1 of the CHI series and JJ gets the flak??

JJ, Teague, Josh and Zaza kept us afloat and competitive against CHI.

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Najeh,

I love that trade, but why would Dallas do it? I’m sure they’re gonna resign Caron, plus Haywood is a rugged 7 footer in this league

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“not known for …”

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Philips’ 43-night problem: lots of dates to fill, too much competition

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The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Downtown Atlanta is no longer the region’s only place for major event space and that logistical fact will make it more challenging to fill the 43 days suddenly available at Philips Arena because of the departure of the Atlanta Thrashers.

“Williams said the facility will target concerts, family shows, rodeos, figure skating shows, gymnastics meets, bull riding, multi-day events and big name sports contests like the NCAA basketball tournament. He’ll also be able to place the Atlanta Hawks in some of the Thrashers’ weekend dates, which attract bigger crowds.”

“Still Conlon said Philips will have challenges because there is no one easy answer. They may pick up a few concerts that would have passed them by, had the Thrashers still be tenants. But in the prevailing market conditions, this doesn’t mean a flood of business either”
____________________________

Just a few key excerpts from an interesting article posted this morning. I posted very similar comments immediately after the Thrashers sale. I believe it was KevinM or SteveW? That chimed in as well.

This is of interest to me because, if the Arena is blacked out for the remaining 324 days of the year, (The Dream making money is a …. well, A Dream) Then such a loss in revenue will bleed money and impact the business of the Hawks.

There is no way around that. When you look at the socioeconomics of the world today, disposable income and near 10% unemployment along with similar NBA team markets?

Atlanta Spirit Group has benefited from the Thrashers revenues, not just inside the Arena, but restaurants, hotels, public transportation and arena jobs opportunities. I know that ASKG had reported 20M in losses from funding the Thrashers, but do we really believe these LIARS? They lost 20M solely because they were in over their collective heads and never had a CLUE how to run ONE sports franchise on a competitive level – let alone TWO!

Good Bye ASKG! Your work here is DONE!

Your claim to fame will forever be: The single reason why The Dollar Tree 2′ X 2′ cardboard 2 for $1 bargain bin filled with “Just Too Much Good – Stuff!”

Who Knew @ The Dollar Tree Corporate Offices, that the cardboard box would prove to be such a great marketing tool for them?

Who Knew, that would draw some mega millionaires of the NBA?

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Dont like the Haywood for All NBA AL senario.

How bout Tito jr for LaMarcus Aldridge? You give up a guy who cant help you in crunch time for a guy who should be an Allstar, can impact a game with his skills and will be an Allstar if he played on the East Coast?

Atlanta Hawks 2010-11 Team Stats:
Offensive: 103.2 (21st)
Defensive: 104.6 (15th)
Thats improvement?? lol

Hawks: All-Time NBA Record (NBA and BAA): 2420-2492 (.493) (includes 2010-11 season)..Wow..

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dmb witha cba pending and no basketball for a while the situation becomes darker. the thrashers might have been the only game in town next year if they had not been sold for a song. heard 120 folks lost jobs recently because of the sale af the thrashers. that info gets lost.

meanwhile in l a the dodgers say the divorce and bankruptcy has no effect on how the team is run. well it seems they have the sam pr department as the hawks and a brand even bigger than the hawks and askg is to be smeared beyond recognition. so sad, oh yeah i am sure there is someone out there that will say it is the fans fault for not coming and watching an inferior product while spending big league dollars to do so.

just say no to haywood. he is like a drug for some of you guys, big promises early but only problems once you find out the high doesnt last and it takes more money and effort to maintain it.

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And, honestly, if Hinrich gets 30 minutes per game backing both Teague and JJ, I am sure he will be happy.

There are 96 back court minutes. Divide that for 3 and you see 3 guys happy.

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* typos galore

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Here’s yet another example of a poorly thought out suggestion which was motivated by a very low basketball IQ combined with a dislike for all things Horford. If we traded AHorford for LAldridge, who is a very good player,
1-Who plays center, since LAldridge is a PF?
2-What do we do with current PF JSmith?
3-How can Aldridge improve our team over Horford when he doesn’t rebound as well, which is an issue with us, or do anything better than Horford other than score?
4-If you think Horford is soft, have you seen Aldridge play?
5-If you think Horford relies too much on shooting jumpshots and doesn’t have a good postup gm, have you seen Aldridge play?

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Hey Ken take your IQ and shove it player. How many times will I have to repeat myself??????

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@Rod from College Park

..You failed to mention a couple of key stats..1,325 is the number of TURNOVERS that Josh has made in his career, that is almost 3 a game, Al has had only 481 in his career…497-1,041 is what Josh shot last year, which is too much, Al was 513-921 which equals out to 53%…7 boards a game is awful for a STARTING PF in the NBA…Al, playing center at 6ft 8 is a double double most nights!.You made a solid point about the Free Throws, but you failed to mention that Josh is not a good FT shooter, Al is better at that also…factor in the the horrible shot selection by Josh, and Al is a better basketball player, Josh is more exciting, but it is a reason why josh has found no takers on the trading block.

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Just Say No!

doc! How you durin’ baby boy?

Yeah, I don’t like Haywood either. I’m tired of always getting hand me downs and washed up players in the A.

Don’t we deserve a WINNER? Some fresh beef? LOL!
doc, what we always get to hold down the end of our bench is the equivalent of a man who has been married and divorced 7 times.

They always say, “That bytch was crazy!” He He …

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By the way, I’m not on the bandwagon of trade Josh or Al…I’m just pointing out one trade scenario that could benefit us.

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Ex: LOW BB IQ! And A Paid Professional at that?

Your Buddy BiIly the “Self Proclaimed Basketball Expert” Knight,

Drafted Marvin Williams over A 1st Ballot Hall of Fame player, CP3

Drafted Josh Childress over Lou Aldang and Andre Iguodala

Drafted Sheldon Williams over Rondo, Rudy Gay and Brandon Roy

If he had the second pick in 07, he probably would have took ALLStar Al over Kevin Durant

Yea whatever Genius…lol scroll on….
42,43,44,45,46……….

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O’Brien
June 28th, 2011
9:45 am “I think Josh would benefit the most from a new coach because he didn’t have a college coach, but he and Al have improved mostly on their own, whereas I think Marvin regressed mostly on his own.”

Marvin has regressed due to COACHING…He has proved that he can be a 15ppg scorer on a playoff team, Jamal, josh and joe Max all hog the ball, imagine if the Hawks actually went to Al on a regular basis!..imagine if Marvin got 15 shots a game, he would easily be a 20ppg scorer for the Hawks!.Marvin and Al have been held back due to coaching!

07-08 was the year Marvin showed everyone what he is capable of doing, and that year joe and josh shot too many shots, Marvin should have been around 18ppg

07-08 ATL 80 80 34.6 0.462 0.100 0.822 1.5 4.2 5.7 1.7 1.0 0.4 1.59 2.81 14.8

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*Good Knight Billy …

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I’m impressed at the group the Hawks landed for minicamp. Lighty, Malcolm Thomas, McCamey and Wanamaker were all guys who justifiably could have been taken with the 48th pick. Seems like the Hawks and Heat got all the good UFAs.
Wish they could keep two of those players. They really need a guard like Lighty or Wanamaker who’s a good defender and can play more than one position. Right now Pape Sy is the 4th guard and there’s no 5th, so that’s scary. Sy has big upside, tho.

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We don’need to trade anyone…..

We need to redefine our Teams philosophy(Defense 1st), redefine players roles(defensive specialist, shooter and STAR). and develop a bench

Great coaches defeine their players role and how role that helps the team win. Simplify the game, BE GREAT AT ONE THING AND DO THAT THING WHENEVER YOU ARE ON THE COURT.

Woodson did not define the roles of his players, he let them set their own perameters and we had too many players trying to be what they are not.(Marvin trying to take people off the dribble…Josh trying too shoot)

I like what I am seeing from LD and Sund….I am a little optimistic.

PS. If we would have been trade back into the 2nd round and draft Keith Benson, David Lighty and Malcom Thomas, this Blog would have been VERY VERY HAPPY!!!! WE stand on the VERGE…give some credit.

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LD and Sund look like they are creating roles and providing direction.

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Mountain Jim!

We need to send you a satellite dish to keep you in the loop.
Sale very close. Sund still stirring the drink. Hold on Jimmy, that sale will go down as soon as the papers are signed, sealed and delivered.

I think the league offices have to be opened though. IDK how the strike will affect the sales process, I don’t see why it would?

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“I sincerelly don’t understand why this continued criticism of JJ after these year’s playoffs.

The guy showed up, on both ends of the court. Was just a notch under his averages and was fundamental on all wins we got.

If someone was a major disappointment during the playoffs, that guy was Diaper Al who was exposed as a one dimensional offensive player which has no balls and shies away from the contact that playoff basketball implies.

If you were thinking that JJ by signing a 100+ million contract would suddenly morph into Kobe or Wade, think again. He was never that type of player, but he still is a heck of a player ON BOTH ENDS of the floor.

Good grief… We went into the playoffs with a perimeter oriented offense, guided by LD who was thoroughly out coached, Diaper Al doesn’t show up (with the exception of garbage rebounding), Jamal disappears after game 1 of the CHI series and JJ gets the flak??

JJ, Teague, Josh and Zaza kept us afloat and competitive against CHI.”

@vava74, Yes Al proved hes not an ALLSTAR by his performance in the big games.
Garbage time does not impress us……

ALL NBA AL was not a disappointment because he’s done this before in the playoffs and regular season..You cant count on him to impact a game week in and week out. His limited skills wont allow him too.. I only remember two games, Clippers and Chicago were he played a major role in a win. He’s delusional if he thinks he can play the 4 on a nightly basis and contribute in a meaningful way..
Does he not remember 6′6 Chuck Hayes dismantling in Houston this past season? That will become more common in his 6th season at the 4 spot….

All NBA Al= Pretty Boy…I think WWClyde came up with that one….LOL!

w/o ISO, JOSH and ALLstar Tito jr dont even make the playoffs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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“Rufus1

June 28th, 2011
11:26 am

Slim

We can’t have both thinking their are the #1 scoring option, if we want to progress. The player that develops their “Off Hand” should be the winner.”

I hear ya @ Rufus 1

Josh is definitely more advanced with the off hand..And his D is superior too….Too bad he’s not a 7 footer!!!!!

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“And 2012 marks the 10th anniversary of the hiring of one Billy Knight.

I still see a large portion of the dream that Billy Knight came in with:

Joe / Josh / Al / Marvin / that 5th starter that makes this team interchangeable. I recall his thought of “why does someone have to be a 1 or a 3?” It still sounds ignorant to this day. Without the potential of Jeff Teague, where in the hail would this fan base be?
It took Knight 4 years to admit we might need a PG, so he signs Speedy, the understudy to Chris Paul. You had to have a feeling that wasn’t going to go well.

Ah yes, memory lane with Billy Knight….5 years at the GM was enough for him to move on…can we get less than 5 with Sund?”

Yea this Guy’s BB IQ was off the Charts?? His decision making will impact this team for at least 10 years..We’re only @ the halfway mark… Ouch……

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“Does he not remember 6′6 Chuck Hayes dismantling in Houston this past season? That will become more common in his 6th season at the 4 spot….”

Kind of like when Houston came to Atlanta and Al posted 24 pts, 10 rebs, 8 assists, 1 steal , and 0 turnovers on 69% shooting.

We can play this game all day. He has good games & bad games, but there’s no need to give up on Al or Josh. Give them some help up front and some leadership on the bench.

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As for Billy Knight, what does it say about the ASG that they hired him, and even offered him a 1 year extension (that he turned down)?

Then again, this is the same ASG that hired Don Waddell to run the Thrashers, and he was worse than BK. After years of failed draft picks, coaching hires etc, they finally reassigned Don to another position.

If the ASG made better decisions, the Thrashers might still have been in ATL today.

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Well, we need to trade marvin for something dammit. Anything just ship his big butt outta here! I’m sick and tired of him, I just can’t stand it anymore! He is a waste of talent, a waste of space, and he has no heart NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA. He’s also soft.

I would trade him to Toronto for Leandro Barbosa. They’re not happy with Linas Klezia so They will bite. We could probably get Jerryd Bayless back as well if we wanted. That way we could Ship old man Kirk and his 9 million dollar expiring deal out for a Big.

Then Sign Tayshaun Prince and Al Thorton to revamp our SF spot. Barbosa Replaces Jamals production. Besides, Barbosa likes to attack the rack and draw fouls.

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J.J Barea > Kirk

He’s also a UFA. He won’t cost 9mill thats for sure.

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Man I remember “The Great Samhan” from the tournament. I really hope he makes the team and the Hawks just let Collins go. That way we can sign Aaron Gray.

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it is^^^

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Booo! I think Barea is too short to start in the League on a consistent basis. He will get posted up too much. But he is a great spark off the bench. 20-25 + mpg a game.

But Kirk can play the 1 or 2, so with Teague, who I really see only being a 1, we need Kirk more than Barea.

But in my ideal scenario, we have Barea backing up Teague, and Kirk backing up JJ, with JJ playing some 3 also to make the minutes work.

Barea would fit great on the Hawks.

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Fire Sund Please…yes, I hope Samhan is reading along here and puts forth the effort to get signed. Then we can eliminate the dead weight on the bench that didnt see valuable playing time anyway. Truthfully, We need a new coach. If anyone was watching, the Hawks were playing on talent, this past season. Really, Woodie coached. But this is the main reason why Spirit needs to wash their hands of the Hawks, and your buddy Sund…lol. Atlanta needs aggressive mgmt. or they are doomed.

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Gotta go thru this again, who do we have coming back next season?

ZaZa, Sy (probably), Rolle (probably), JJ, Al, Josh, Teague, Hinrich, Marvin, Benson (probably).

That’s 10, and I think you put Collins in that group, that would be 11 if he re-signed

So if we don’t re-sign Wilkens, or another FA or 2, I guess we could feasibly keep 4 of these guys.

If we do re-sign Collins,we would have 8 guys with experience, and the rest would be hungry DLeaguer types, unless we signed some vets.

Interesting. I wonder if LD would play them?

And Grant Hill, T Prince, or Battier would be great additions to this team also.

And I like the Aaron Gray suggestion somebody had.

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@SteveW, I think at least two guys from this camp make the roster. I think the Hawks will go with young cheap talent at the end of the bench instead of washed up vets. I think they will sign Lighty and another forward. I think it comes down between Thomas and Alexander. Samham wouldn’t be a bad choice either.

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I thought Greg Oden was injury pron why take a guy with bad knees when you have Benson i hope we can get David Lighty if we go after a vet center it should be Haywood not Oden .

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@ Hawksfancents95, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I here ya.. Great job posting ALL NBA Al’s non ALLSTAR Nimbers in the post season!! Your right an average #5(Benson) could put those up? Plus protect the rim much better..

The #2 pick DW for All NBA Al would have work out because he was a star in college unlike Marvin and put incredible shooting numbers and had a great NCAA tournament under pressure..

The NBA world is fixing to find out this guy is a bonified scoring machine…….

This roster of:

TEAGUE, Barea
ISO, Hinrich
JOSH,
DERRICK, Damien, Marvin
ZaZa,Collins,Benson

plus adding a couple of bench pieces to back up Josh and Teague what a ride!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

Might have been ECF contender if not this year, maybe next year..

Oh well, guess we’ll have to settle for .500 ball again… Yawn

Will the Hawks get swept again by the Thunder?..3 freaking years and counting…….

scroll….

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Da Brat!

Raise you hand if you BASH the hell out of The ASKG!
(raising both my hands)

Can you add “Royal Queen” to my Brat title?

(I didn’t do the other things though, that wasn’t me.)

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I hope SI story turns out to about Hawks potential sale ASG is the worst owners of all time with Thrashers gone its time to get better owners i hope its not that guy from San Diego .

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I sure wish we can get an owner like Mark Cuban someone that really cares about basketball and someone who truly say he is going put a winning team on the court .

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Man there are some miserable people out there……..

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When Oscar comes around I gits my scroll on….

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We should just cut Rolle since we have Benson now and not sign Collins until Aaron Gray is off the market on another team. With that said, Sund & Drew need to come to a conclusion on keeping a lot of these guys.

Lighty & McCamey should be obvious choices. McCamey makes Hinrich expendable enough to package with a.)Marvin for a perimeter shooting wing or b.) Zaza for an upgrade at center maybe.

Malcolm Thomas can give us a nice energy big like Taj Gibson, who can rebound, block shots, and other intangibles.

Samhan can easily become our best interior presence and may start and allow Horford to play the 4. The guy was a beast in college despite having no quickness nor hops..

Joe Alexander could provide a spark off the bench and start at 3 in small lineup. Very explosive and athletic guy. May can revive his career.

Zachs Graham would get the last spot to give us perimeter shooting if didn’t keep Sy.

1- Hinrich/Teague/McCamey
2- Joe/Lighty/Sy
3- Josh/Alexander/Marvin
4- Horford/Benson/Thomas
5- Samhan/Gray/Zaza

Teague needs one more year of mentoring and would probably perform better as the change of pace guard in a small lineup with Lighty, Alexander, Josh, & Horford. Samhan & Gray can alternate starts. Zaza & Marvin could possibly land us some perimeter shooting in a trade. I like Casspi for Zaza in a trade. Marvin may can be dumped for 2nds..

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doc, criticizing performances in a game is a little different than a post-season evaluation that suggests the whole franchise is beneath contempt. See the difference? Easy to get frustrated during the long marathon but at the end, it seems like you have to appreciate a top 25-30% finish.

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Al is a capital H hawk or Hawk

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SlimJr!

IDK Da Brat was Lisa Raye’s brother … Ugh, I mean sister. Dang! LOL!

Astro Joe!

It’s all good baby! If we had nothing to complain about, our lives would be miserable!

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Mr Cunningham

If you would interview Brad Wannamaker;
I surmise that it would be, at the very least,
tacitly acknowledged, that defense is in his
DNA as well, just by the mere fact that
he is a Pitt guy.

_________________________________________

Mrs G-dad- washed out my mouth with soap. (lye)

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Najeh I don’t understand your depth chart? The past 17 years the title contenders have allowed 102 points or less.

The only player with that on the roster for the past 2 seasons is Josh Smith and he only plays 36 minutes a game.

and you put Smith starting @ 2 positions, I know he gets a lot of the blame around here but looking at that “depth chart” its easy to understand why.

Smith is our only all around defender and getting fatter Johnson slows the pace to 107 points per 100 possessions and Hinrich is old and gets injured on a routine play.

Hawks would be nothing without Josh. Horford is the next best defender and he allows 105 points per 100 possessions.

In the playoffs Smith stepped his game up defensively and was @ 100. And you guys wonder why everyone laughs at us.

You guys expect Al to play 96 minutes each? No u fully expect to lean on Josh and start Marvin not @ the 2 but the 3 once again

Load of bullsh**. Hawks should have had 2 championships in the past 4 playoffs by now. Sign and Trade Childress no.

Iguodala/Chris Paul, Josh Smith should have been the core. Joe Johnson has been holding this franchise’s SG defense hostage for year

Al is not an All Star reserve next year. Al is a great player but not a foundation piece. Lazadasical Lamar Odom created more wins than Al last year.

Al has peaked. 180 free throw attempts? At best he is Brad Miller w/o the ability to space the floor as well.
The Coaches flavor of the month obsession has ended.

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Except for one, everyone on this blog knows that w/o ISO this team is not playoff bound regardless of whether pretty boy tied as an assist leader cause he cant dribble so he has to pass out if his feet arent set…

And when your 5 is leading in assist with 46 wins that says Houston we have a problem Genius…

.493 winning % all time..

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G-Daddy!

He He! We both said “soap’ … Great minds – ba bay! (-winks-)

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“But Josh cannot be the best/only defender on this team anymore. We’re stuck with the guards and we need to overhaul the bigs.”

You know where to start with over haul?

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astro, this is only a continuation of the dialogue heard during the season. dont kid yourself into thinking what was said during the season was any more rational than what is said now for the most part. luck got the hawks where they are now, not skill marked by the draft that got us al to fall in our laps. certain decisions might have made the ride less bumpy and a bit quicker as well but i am sure you havent forgotten the days of anakin joe either as the hawks somehow found their way.

just because you have come to your senses doesnt mean it is time for everyone else to stop having their fun either. i said all season enjoy the rewards as the team seemed to be wanting to do something special in spite of its dithering idiot owners, gm’s and coaches and they almost did.

i was very satisfied with their performance this year and very defeated during the season of 53 wins which could have been a great year if coached differently. not many coaches get caught with their pants down to actually lose a game because they were on the court as woody did. it was just the most glaring fault of his that year. last year with all they were under and overcoming, including a new rookie coach and new “system”, they went much further than i thought they would, so, i commend them as players. the askg still gets an f for no other reason as to their continued lies about the thrashers and their intent all along. it wasnt much better for the hawks either we will find out when the dust settles is my guess.

until the cba is done and maybe a new owner then i remain quiet as to what can be done. personally as we both wanted action last year, this year i hope we get status quo and a quick hook if things falter and a look at getting rick adelman for the next 5 years.

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Word Play!

“Joe was below average … ” – Re: SlimJr -
_________________

The answer is in the details: “below?” Can you see the “elbow?” In that?

You say Marvin missed 17 games, but where is the balance re: Joe playing with pain and underwent surgery and returned in 10 days versus 4-5 weeks?

What irony?

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“Al is not an All Star reserve next year. Al is a great player but not a foundation piece. Lazadasical Lamar Odom created more wins than Al last year.

Al has peaked. 180 free throw attempts? At best he is Brad Miller w/o the ability to space the floor as well.
The Coaches flavor of the month obsession has ended.”

@@Najeh ‘depth’ chart; sign MALCOLM

Very Interesting observation of one of the captains..
You just made Oscar mad…..lol

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CP3 to the Knicks or Miami???

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I realize that I’ve sunk to a whole new low level for morbid and tasteless amusement.

Said another way, I’ve actually read the last 20 asinine posts by Slim Jr ….

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GET A DAMN CENTER THAT CAN REBOUND 12 TIMES A GAME AND GET OVER 2 BLOCKS A GAME!!

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“Joe was below average ”

The sad thing is looking at the roster is that Joe had his career high in 8.4 wins last year, a byproduct of Smith playing out of his mind defensive Wins wise.

For his career Joe is .093
But he’s a five time All Star.
Why? Because he stays on the court.

His appearance on the leaderboards is not based on efficiency at all but playing time. He is generating 9% of Wins while on the court for his career.

There’s 10 players on the court at any given time. If each player is the same then they each get 10%. So what does Joe’s 9% tell you?

Terry for his career has generated 86 wins!!
Joe Johnson 55. Are you telling me Joe is going to reach a Kobe-esque 10 wins every season to make up the gap?

Joe Johnson Leaderboard
Minutes Per Game
2003-04 NBA 40.6 (3)
2004-05 NBA 39.5 (7)
2005-06 NBA 40.7 (6)
2006-07 NBA 41.4 (2)
2007-08 NBA 40.8 (2)
2008-09 NBA 39.5 (3)
2009-10 NBA 38.0 (10)
Active 36.8 (10)
Career NBA 36.8 (38)
Career 36.8 (39)

USG% 26%

I’ll give him a pass for not playing with Dirk but the season after Terry generated 5.1 wins ATL traded him.
6′8 big guards that make Otis Smith look dumb for a Nelson-Redick backcourt are rare but …Just saying.

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Moses Malone 33yo – 10,7
Nique 10.4
Rivers 8.5
Theus 5.9
Livingston 5.5
Koncak 3.7 103 – they paid him for his defense but lowballed Smith?? LOL CURSED/RIGGED

horford 10.4 105
Smith 6.4 101 DRtg* Hawks are at championship threshold (102) until he gets old/fat
Williams 4.2
Johnson 4.3 below avg play above avg minutes and USG%
Crawford 3.4 below avg play above avg minutes and USG% – Hawks sign Malcolm Thomas

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David West opting out? I need a source, because that’s hard to believe.

He is coming off an injury, there is a threat of a lockout, and his salary for next year will be lower under the new CBA. So why opt out?

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West is opting out. Locked into a $7.5M starting salary or so if he resigns with NO, which I imagine he can get even under the new CBA. I have to imagine Oden is gonna get a QO at least, would probably take full midlevel to pry him away, and even that’s a maybe.

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And the Hawks should be grizzled vets by now. 4 straight playoff appearances. 3 consecutive trips to the semis.

If we’re not vets yet, I don’t know if we ever will be.

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BIG RAY-you categorizing this fools last 20 posts as asinine is actually a compliment compared to what they really are. He’s nothing but a child minded individual who’s starving for attention, and he’ll continue making these stupid negative minded comments and attacks as long as he gets him the attention he craves.

I continued to go after him so he can experience what is like to be singled out and negatively attacked on a constant basis. I knew he wouldn’t change, because he’s to arrogant, egotistical, deprived and ignorant, as far as basketball knowledge is concerned.

I’ve been trying to post comments saying I wasn’t going to waste anymore time and effort on this idiot, but the blog monster keeps eating them. I’ve lost 5 so far.

Assuming we don’t make any trades, what starting lineup do you think would be the best way to go. My suggestion would be:
OC-AHorford
PF-JSmith
SF-JJohnson
SG-KHinrich
PG-JTeague

Of course, this lineup would necessitate we sign another PG, but it strengthens our bench otherwise.

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In fairness, I think it’s ASG that doesn’t want to go 15 deep, not Sund. I think, were it up to him, there’d be a full roster with some developmental players.

And am I the only one that actually likes Teague a bit more providing a spark off the bench than starting? Doesn’t mean he can’t get the 4Q minutes, as we’ve seen with JC.

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I prefer a starting lineup of Teague, Johnson, Smith, Horford, and , with a bench of Hinrich, Williams (do I have an option?), Pachulia & Collins.

I also think 4 unproven players make this roster as the Hawks go with the minimum 13 players (Sy, Lighty, Rolle & Benson). Personally, I’d like to see Wannamaker & Thomas make the team as well.

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Ken Strickland ,

Ehhh, you’re probably right, but you know me…sometimes I just can’t resist.

I’ve learned over time that the blog monster is a biased and picky eater. I can’t even control it when moderating my own blog…

As for the Horford Hate, I don’t lose sight that some of the criticism (by some people) is on target.

But, I maintain that you have to watch and see how a player like this reacts. One rough playoff series and suddenly we forget his accolades to this point? All I can say is that a guy who makes the all star team more than once and even makes all NBA is usually a guy who can work on his game and get better. He’ll let his work ethic do the talking.

I can remember when people said he had no offensive game. Yet, he just had his best season yet (excepting the playoffs).

That’s how it works – you become good, then people gameplan against you. Then, you have to learn to overcome that. I’d say he’s doing well on the path for somebody who doesn’t have elite talent.

That’s why I stay so angry with Josh. He actually has elite potential , but he just can’t get it together and keep it. Which is why he also has never received the accolades of his teammate. Well, that and his attitude.

Fact is, Josh should be as good as or better than Shawn Marion was in his prime. But I don’t think he’ll ever reach that level. One day his athleticism will be gone, and then what will happen to those dunks and blocks?

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Our strength is post play and while Al is a good player you can’t build around someone who cant post up at the 4.

He created 266 assists last year. How is he not getting enough touches? He has peaked. Its all right.

Height
Blake Griffin 6′10 plays like he 6′11* and handles like a small forward
Motiejunas 7′1 plays like he’s 6′11* and shoots 3s

Toni Kukoc 6′10 played like he was 6′11* better point forward than Josh and shot 3s

Zach Randolph 6′10 plays like he’s 6′11 with great rhythm shooting release
Kevin Love 6′10 plays like he’s 6′11 with great rhythm shooting release

In case you guys missed it big guys with 6′11 wingspans work on their shooting release.

Nikloa Tskvlistki smh

more like Shareef for Pau Gasol and you guys are still high and mighty like you dont realize what you’ve done.

The only person close to Motiejunas’ measurements is Chris Kaman and he’s a 7′1 center. Greg Monroe. Griffin. Kanter.

My God Hawks are dumb. Every other year there will be a 7′0 kid who wants to play next to a center to avoid banging.

Ryan Andersen lol this is just the beginning of the end for the Hawks. I’ll Go with the local teams (Lakers, Clippers) instead.

Having Horford penciled in as a long term player is just as bad as having Smith at the 4 and expecting him to score with his ball handling and no jump shots.

Hawks will suck (as in no title) because they missed the only chance to upgrade their defense. No NBA champion in the past 10 years has ever won with only one top defender.

You had a chance to build around Smith and win with bad contracts and you blew it, Ironically you lowballed Smith and gave Johnson 3 times as much money to get outplayed by Marvin Williams while moving Williams out of his natural position at the 2. What incompetency my God.

Only God can write a script like this

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Josh’s idiocy on offense and horrid inconsistency on the glass.

He’s a 6′8 guy who bulked up to play the 4 and is the 11th best defender in the league. Hawks allow 105 ppg. Horford allows 105 everyone else (especially Hinrich at the 2) on up.

For the crowd who thinks Hinrich can rebound and defend well enough to start for us you’re kidding yourselves

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He created 266 assists last year. How is he not getting enough touches? He has peaked. Its all right.

That’s called passing ability. There’s a difference between getting that many assists because you know how to pass to the right guy at the right time, and getting plays run for you in spots where you are most likely to be successful.

It’s the same reason Smith continues to be as inefficient and inconsistent on offense as he is. He gets the ball so much on the perimeter, where he is LEAST effective. Unfortunately, that doesn’t always translate into assists. It translates into badly missed shots and the ball going the other way…

As to the way the Hawks have been managed over the last decade, I can only agree…

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THIS:

He’s a 6′8 guy who bulked up to play the 4 and is the 11th best defender in the league. Hawks allow 105 ppg. Horford allows 105 everyone else (especially Hinrich at the 2) on up.

Has NOTHING to do with THIS:

Josh’s idiocy on offense and horrid inconsistency on the glass.

He’s a 6′8″ guy with a 7′0″ wingspan who can outjump just about anybody in the League. Imagine if he blocked out when a shot goes up. Dude should be leading the team in rebounding.

Strange that the new favorite whipping boy “Diaper Al” is the team leader in the category since he was drafted….

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Ken Strickland ,

Well, you’ve hit the nail on the head with the coaching habits. I hate that it’s true, but it’s just plain true.

To be honest (and to answer your question), I do have a hunch that Sund (or should I say Gearon) will pass on trying to acquire a quality FA defensive minded center.

It’s crazy, really, because they said they’d be drafting somebody to help that situation out (the defense, rebounding). I mean, have they not been paying attention to what goes on with rookies around here? I’m not saying that rookies should automatically get playing time, and there are a lot of factors to consider along those lines. However, don’t tell the general public that you draft a kid to help out THIS YEAR when we know better…

My guess is that we’ll just see which version of Powell or Joe Smith we get this year. Although, this time instead of Collins/Powell/Thomas it will be Collins/Armstrong/Rolle.

Benson will be investing in tweezers so he can pick the splinters out of his arse…

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@BigRay you’re kidding right…

Bench Mob: Hinrich to Hill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO404qjQDhA

all we had to do was defend, rebound and fill the bench with average 10% players. All we get is guards who need to shoot. Str8 and narrow.

But you’re all obsessed with All Star nods.

How many All Stars nods does Jason Terry have? 2-Al? Five-Joe?

And as far as STATISTICAL EVIDENCE is concerned building around Horford is worse than building around Brad Miller who peaked at 125 Offensive Rating.
Horford is at 121 which is the peak for someone his height.

Larry Nance and Bill Lambier are the only 6′10 players in the 116 points pace for their careers. Try building your offense around them lol.

Jason Kidd, Derek Fisher, Rondo <<Garnett, Nowitzki, Gasol, Chandler, Bynum, Perkins

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“he’s to arrogant, egotistical, deprived and ignorant, as far as basketball knowledge is concerned.”

Man that made my day!! I have a long way to go! Thanks and peace out…

.493

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JASON-With my lineup suggestion, Marvin comes off the bench. With your lineup suggestion, Hinrich comes off the bench, and over the last few yrs, Marvin has proven to be a better scorer. Also, if you’ll reread my post, you’ll notice where I indicated we’d have to sign another PG.

You know we’ll sign someone with shooting/scoring ability to replace Jamal. If he plays good DEF, he won’t have to score nearly as much as Jamal to be effective.

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Josh’s idiocy on offense and horrid inconsistency on the glass.
“can outjump just about anybody in the League.”
“Imagine if he blocked out when a shot goes up.”

“Dude should be leading the team in rebounding.”

Josh Smith 15% 19.0 PER
Carmelo Anthony 11.8 %
Lebron James, MIA 11.4%
Kevin Durant, OKC 10.3%
Shawn Marion 14.3% If only Shawn Marion would learn how to Box out!
Gerald Wallace, 12.8%

Horford grabs 16%. That’s Josh and Lamar Odom (backup) level.

“He’s a 6′8″ guy with a 7′0″ wingspan”

Okay lets say 7′0 wingspan is Josh’s height. He plays like he’s 7′0.

Kevin Garnett is 7′6 Perkins is 7′6
Thabeet is 7′6

“Strange that the new favorite whipping boy “Diaper Al” is the team leader in the category since he was drafted….”

LOL and when you average 10 points over FORTY PLAYOFF games.

He has no shooting pocker. Go ahead watch some playoff video and some regular season video.

He has the proportionate abilities of a taller David Lee. You’d think it would make Amare Stoudemire but it doesn’t.

Horford outranks Amare in a lot of categories but Offensive Rating. Amare played in Phoenix yet he has a lower pace.

Why? because he takes the shots himself and slows the team down to get to the line. Zach Randolph Dirk are all lower than Al.

Al creates assists, passes ahead etc. He’s a center. Horford has peaked and theres no shame in saying it.

Horford has nothing to be ashamed of except that he cant play in the post or separate from his defender.

People think being bigger than David Lee= success but no. The bigger you are the more likely you are uncoordinated.

Horford plays like he’s 7′0.75 nothing bad but he’s a tweener. Motiejunas (I hate that guy’s name) is a better player.

Troy Murphy career high Team Wins Shared: 8.0, Horford last year 10.9, 2011: 10.1

Josh Smith regression= got fat??= team regression

Josh Smith = chance at a playoff title

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Slim – I’m not getting who Andre is. I’m sure when you say it, I’ll be like “oh yeah”

Andre Miller?

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Amare 7′1.75
Jordan Hill 7′1.5

Have you ever seen Horford do a spin move? Guys think about it. have you? There is an article out there that says Horford can run the offense from the high post?

So he just stands around and passes the ball because he can’t dribble. Stupid is as stupid does.

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Jordan Hill can barely get this dunk. Horford no such luck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giBoLFew-oQ

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I have seen Al do spin moves. As a matter of fact on one of the fansites, the top 10 Hawks hilites of 2010-11 is a Al spin move and dunk.

Did on Chicago as well.

He does it occasionally.

And Al’s no Amare. Al – Stiff looking compared to the fluid Amare.

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@Sy and Horford for Thabeet, Hill, Motiejunas

We have to run this year to make up for the offensive deficiencies with the bigs..
Start Teague and run with the wind at our backs!!
And when Hinrich goes down have role player to fill his shoes..Run Run Run..
44 wins this year and your looking at maybe 6th seed?
Get Benson in there to crash the boards so we can run like the wind..I hope this guy has some offense too.Maybe a drop step or something along those lines? Maybe he can finish with either hand? It will make it so much easier for our guards if Benson can get it going on the block?

I hope Larry does not let him ride the pines just like Woody did with Solo for his 1st 2.5 years…

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The Hawks showed some resolve in the postseason, but they never were the consistently rugged defensive team that Drew envisioned. Eventually Drew realized he may not get this group of players to play that way no matter how much he talked about it.

I don’t know what’s more sad…the fact that Drew can’t get these guys to play tough or the fact that the above statement is true in most cases…

And if you think that blocking shots is a sign of toughness, you’re wrong.

Sadder still that we’re looking for toughness in free ageny minicamp. Seriously? We have to get toughness out of the guys who are out there just trying to find their way to a job? From guys that won’t get to play?

Just how much is “end of the bench” toughness going to do for us? Our problem is in the core. You know, the guys who actually play…

Etan Thomas is tough…didn’t get to play.

Stop playing games, ASG and Sund…add your toughness where it counts – among the rotation players.

Quit cheaping out on us and hiring “tough guys” who won’t sniff the court.

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Shawn Marion 14.3% If only Shawn Marion would learn how to Box out!

I was talking about Shawn Marion in his prime, as I clearly stated .

BTW, Thabeet is the worst lottery pick since Darko Milicic. Wait, he’s worse than Darko….

And Jordan Hill sucks monkey nuts.

Have you ever seen Horford do a spin move? Guys think about it. have you? There is an article out there that says Horford can run the offense from the high post?

OMG…

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Good Read:

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_110627.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

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Well, if Sund thinks tall, skinny bigs is the wave of the future, like he said (or was it Pendegraft?), Branden Wright wasn’t re-upped in NJ and is now a FA.

And if Gasol and Odom can win two championships on the same team, basically playing the same position, I think Al and Josh ought to be just fine on the same squad.

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11-12 Hawks
PG-teague/hinrich/mccamey
SG-johnson/sy/lighty
SF-smith/williams/alexander
PF-horford/benson/rolle (or mcroberts/jeffries/wilcox/j.foster, move kito back to C)
C-pachulia/gray/collins

we need to let go damien wilkins, etan thomas, and hilton armstrong. i think mccamey would be a nice option as our third option in case teague or hinrich get hurt. lighty could take wilkins spot as a specialty defender guarding multiple positions. i think joe alexander could be a decent pick up for our 13-15th spot, giving us athleticism, could u imagine a fast break where teague gets a steal up top and has joe alexander and josh smith running with him on the wings?(highlight factory) i hear everyone talking about omar samhan and aaron gray as some possible pickups. i dont think we need samhan if we have zaza kito and collins, but i did really like his game at st.marys. i think we could sign aaron gray and him and zaza would get most of our C minutes with collins only playing against orlando and kito playing more backup PF this first year or some C when we play GS NY fast teams etc. i think our best options are to sign mcCamey,lighty,alexander as backups. and to either sign a veteran PF and spend more than vet min, or get aaron gray and let rolle/benson play our backup PF spot. either way i think the hawks are progressing and even though some bloggers want immediate trades or whatever we know for sure this current team is at least 2nd round bound, heck maybe we reach the ecf..aim high

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“Najeh I don’t understand your depth chart?”

That wasn’t meant to be a depth chart, just a list of players who are capable of playing each position.

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“I bet we have more centers than that on this roster. Al/Zaza/Collins/Thomas(current player rep)/Benson and he might even have Hilton back. ”

I don’t know if you mentioned Etan’s status as the current player rep to indicate that the Hawks might keep him, but if you did, Mo Evans was the Hawks’ player rep until he was traded. I don’t think that figures into personnel decisions.

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I was hoping Flavor Flav would give it up after the Hawks wisely decided not to make his little Thabeet trade on draft day, but I guess I was wrong.

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“He’s a 6′8″ guy with a 7′0″ wingspan who can outjump just about anybody in the League. Imagine if he blocked out when a shot goes up. Dude should be leading the team in rebounding. ”

Smoove and Al had identical defensive rebounding rates last year. Al’s offensive rebounding rate was higher than Smoove, in part because he plays closer to the basket, which in turn is in part because he doesn’t have to play small forward.

Something that often tends to get lost in the shuffle is that as athletic as Smoove is, he matches up with bigger players on a pretty regular basis, nearly as much as Al does. Athleticism isn’t necessarily going to help you on the glass if you are going up against someone who has a significant size advantage.

Of course, offensive rebounding rates are affected in a big way by whether the team’s philosophy places more value on transition defense or attacking the offensive boards. Both Al and Smoove saw significant dips in their offensive rebounding rates this year as a result of a change in coaching philosophy.

All of that is a long way of saying I don’t think either Smoove or Al’s rebounding is something to complain about. I do think, however, that Joe and Marvin can do more on the boards than they did this year.

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Clarity from Etan Thomas amidst the current drama between the NBAPA and owners. Things sure look different from the players prospective. When you have a millionaire-owners vs.millionaire-players standoff, resolution will definitely take awhile. I’m getting the impression from this article that a solution might take all year and likely a lost season. In that scenario, there will be no winners.

http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/thomas/2011/06/27/united-we-stand/

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“Thabeet is the worst lottery pick since Darko Milicic.”

That is an insult to Darko. Darko is at least a marginally productive bench big man. Thabeet will be lucky to be in the league when his contract expires.

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“I love that trade, but why would Dallas do it? I’m sure they’re gonna resign Caron, plus Haywood is a rugged 7 footer in this league”

With the new CBA likely to bring more salary restrictions, the Mavs are going to be one of the harder hit teams since they have $63 million in salary committed to next year already before re-signing any of their free agents. I think Chandler is going to be their top priority to re-sign. I am not so convinced that after keeping him they will have room to give Butler, Stevenson, and Barea what they can make on the open market. With Shawn Marion and Corey Brewer still under contract for multiple seasons, I think Butler is out the door, and I think they would be happy to dump Haywood’s salary since Mahinmi filled in pretty capably for him during the Finals and is signed for a minimum salary. It would mainly be a cost-saving move for them, and also a way to replace some of the defense that Stevenson provided.

“Haywood will be 32 in November and you should all be aware that he is an old 32 since he is known for his work ethic and for taking care of his body.

He is the impersonation of the word “overrated”.

He hardly played in the finals (due to injury) and the Mavs hardly felt his absence. Cardinal was 10 times more valuable for them than Haywood would have been if he was available.

To dump Marvin’s bad contract and get an even worse? Good grief, no thanks.”

I am not a huge fan of Haywood or his contract, but he is about as useful of a player as the Hawks are going to get in exchange for Marvin. If the new CBA as rumored has an amnesty provision, the Hawks can always take a chance on Haywood and simply cut him if he doesn’t pan out.

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“If Teague starts this year I think the Hawks will run more and Smoove will handle the ball on the break considerably less often than he does now.” – Najeh

OP forgot:

5) Forward who thinks he’s Magic Johnson only thinks so because he knows if he hands it off to one of the ball-stopping guards, they’re going to pound out the shot clock and then launch a contested 26-footer that’s just as easy for a guard to rebound as him.

Therefore, forward in question, noted for outlet passes when someone actually runs, will have a new wide receiver in Teague, get the ball ahead and then trail.

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never mind unitent irony^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ its late…..

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I mean seriously, we’ve got two of the best passing big men in the NBA and Horford and J-BALLS. Don’t you think they get tired of passing it to JJ and JC1 and watching them incompetently waste possessions?

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“Najeh why don’t you want Zaza to start at C?”

Zaza’s game is dependent on how much energy he brings, and I think as an energy guy he is better suited to playing in spurts off the bench than as a starter. Plus I’m not a huge fan of having two non-help defenders start together at PF and C.

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@doc
June 28th, 2011
10:09 pm

Actually yes i did, which kind of side tracked me a bit. As I thought Josh is predominantly a 4. I’m assuming Sam Smith did the lists as far as what position he’s seen each player play on a consistent basis.

What really caught my eye was the fact that “according” to his layout…the Hawks are [suppose] to be an elite team.

Go figure…

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“What really caught my eye was the fact that “according” to his layout…the Hawks are [suppose] to be an elite team.”

The Hawks fit his criterion of “two top 5 players at their positions”, which is the reason why they are mentioned there. He has Joe and Al rated 4 and 3 respectively at their positions. Of course, shooting guard and center are pretty shallow positions in terms of talent at the top. Put it this way: the 3rd and 4th ranked PGs, SFs and PFs on that list are significantly better than either one of them.

Those other teams he mentions that had two top five players at their respective positions had two players who were arguably top ten in the entire league. Joe and Al are nowhere close to that.

All that aside, there is plenty to take issue with in regards to his rankings. Smoove should be listed among the power forwards first of all, and secondly he should be no lower than 9th in that list of power forwards.

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Trade Kirk Hinrich & ZaZa Pachulia to Dallas for Brendan Haywood, Corey Brewer & Dominique Jones. Hawks take on a ton of long term salary ($40M compared to $9M), but save about $2M for the upcoming year. I think Hawks might do it though if they see Jones & Brewer as the keys to the deal. Both are solid defenders and versatile enough to play a couple different positions.

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“Smoove should be listed among the power forwards first of all, and secondly he should be no lower than 9th in that list of power forwards.” – Najeh

Even if you want to put him as a small forward, J-BALLS is ranked kinda low on that list. What’s funny is, if Smith is our SF and Horford is our C, who tha F is our PF? I like Sam Smith but that one had me scratching my head.

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dukester…I think we’ve all scrambled our brains trying to come up with a Marvin trade. It’s just when I turn any potential deal for Marvin around and look at it from the other team’s perspective, I have trouble making it work. Why trade for Marvin when you can sign any # of free agent SF’s for less? For instance, in a Marvin for Haywood swap, what’s Dallas’s motivation? Dumping the contract? Then ask for an expiring contract in return. Houston can probably help you out. Adding SF depth? You can probably sign Butler or Stevenson or Battier or Prince or Howard or McGrady for less than what Marvin makes, and you already have Brewer, Marion & Fernandez that can play the position.

There are 3 teams that I think can use Marvin as a starter or backup (Cleveland, Golden State & the LA Clippers). Two of those, Cleveland & Golden State, I think would have trouble getting a free agent SF of much value to sign with them.

I think Cleveland might give us the expiring contracts of Gibson & Hollins for Marvin.

Golden State is a little harder to match up. I think a Hinrich, Williams & Pachulia for Ellis & Biedrins trade could make sense for them. Hinrich plays behind & mentors guards Curry & Thompson. Marvin backs up the SF position, and Pachulia is better and cheaper than Biedrins. I think this is a Jerry West type trade where he sees value in veteran role players. Hawks would be thinner (trading 3 rotational players for 2 at equal money), and would have even less cap flexibility for the future. We would definitely be getting the best player in the deal though.

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“Smoove and Al had identical defensive rebounding rates last year. Al’s offensive rebounding rate was higher than Smoove, in part because he plays closer to the basket, which in turn is in part because he doesn’t have to play small forward.”

Glad someone pointed this out. Josh only averaged about 1 less rebounds than Al during the regular season, and less than one playing a lot from the 3 spot in the playoffs. Josh would be considered one of the top rated small forwards in rebounding in the league.

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I feel we need to spend more time talking about the real issue on our beloved atlanta hawks…JOE FREAKING JOHNSON.. ATL please offer up a pick joe johnson and if you absoultly have to josh smith for ray allen and kevin garnett. i rather you offer kirk but they have rondo so that wont happen unless danny ainge moves him (which he might). Rick sund prove to me your not braindead.

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Dang, did I post that last blog… that’s about two months of blogging for me… Grandad must did some kind of metaphysical thing to me.lol

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@jojograndpa 8:52am post
i liked both of ur trade ideas involving marvin. cleveland fudged up their future bad with their #1 and 4 pics. cleveland doesnt have a small forward and i think marvin could be productive for them. clev shoulda took derrick williams and kemba walker (two starters that could bring excitement/wins) i like marv for boobie and hollins and i guess we could throw in a armstrong or powell. im intrigued by ur GS trade as well. A) we get monta who can score, penetrate, get to the free theow line. B) get rid of marvin and get better product in return! imagine this starting lineup
teague
ellis
johnson
smith
horford
bench biendrins, benson & sy
sign some good role player FAs, sebastian telfair, jamario moon, jeff foster, david lighty, jason collins, joe alexander, demetri mccamey
that would be a pretty big shuffle of new players but we would be vastly improved.

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ARE WE REALLY AGAINST A JOE, KIRK, & maybe even Marvin for ALLEN AND GARNETT trade? Think about it you guys know it makes sense.

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No team would be dumb enough to trade for Marvin. First of all he is not a good player, second of all he makes too much money, and lastly he just had back surgery, and he can’t stop falling. Insurance case waiting to happen a la Speedy Claxton.

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Let me repeat:

and lastly he just had back surgery, and he can’t stop falling.

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just picture
teague
ray
smith
al
howard
OH the rings that would bring atlanta

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Another prospective on Keith Benson

If you ask Benson the strengths of his game, the description comes off sounding like a scaled-down version of Hawks All-Star center Al Horford.

“I think my athleticism, being able to run the floor, shot block,” he said. “I can score in the post, and I can also be a pick-and-pop-type player, so I think that will translate.”

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Only an idiot reporter would make that remark!

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Real GM!

Any real GM should be blowing up every GM’s phone in the league right now. As a matter of fact, this bombardment should have started before the draft and even moreso afterwards.

They should be finding out which FA’s are scheduled to be cut on this Thursday to see if anyone they want will be shook loose. First dibbs will be gone by secret hand shakes before Friday. Is that legal? Probably not, but who’s telling. Like Bilichek says in New England (Patriots), “If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying!”

You best bet Pat Riley recruited and had LeBron two years before his “Decision” we all know that DWade was working on him at the Olympic Games. Tampering? Sure, but who’s gonna’ prove that? Lips are sealed.

Sund, hopefully has already decided who he is not bringing back and should be trying to set up deals before the lock out in 72 hours.
I hope he is not pinning all his hopes on undrafted talent from this camp.
We do need another veteran and perhaps, Lighty and Smahan-sp, from what the blog experts are saying are being keyed in on. Especially if
Jamal is a goner, or Damien.

Here’s my point: Be proactive – please? Don’t wait for the cardboard bargain bin this year. A new owner will most certainly be aggressive financiall, if for no other reason, ENTHUSIASM!

I don’t think Cuban will let Tyson get away, especially if the new CBA offers the luxury tax option. I sure hope Amnesty is available.

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vava74

Who could argue one way or the other about Benson (at this point) since MC has not updated us regarding his workout. However, any over-reaching position on Benson (at this point) is in the category as this “idiot reporter” apparent abstract evaluation of him.

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“Its the results that count” unknown Author

Let me try a different approach:
Hey Coach I got number 5 that’s considered a great passer in fact hes tied for the lead in assists?
But my team only won 44 games out of 82…I know there are other issues but lets take a look at this one for now. Okay?

Well there’s two ways to look at this situation:
1- He leads the team in assist but the team is 21st in scoring @103.xx pts. (20 teams ahead)
2- He is not leading in fta’s not even close!

I would not change a thing if your team won 55-60 games and part took in an ECF for 2011.But that did not happen..So change must occur and its up to the you the coach to make that change.

You make it known to your #5 that he must set up in the post and attack the rim to draw fouls..You would want him to be a leader in fta’s or close to one…

Or you move him to the 4 if he cant comply and put another big @ the 5..but now your putting more pressure on the guards to score more and more consistently due to the fact that Josh has to move to the 3 and he is inconsistent at best in the scoring department..

Change has to come from you Larry…The ball is in your court, so what cha gonna do?

Run and run more?

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Who is this “Terrell” character? lol. Im the real “terrell”. You need to find another name man. Or woman.

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I like Fratello and all, but I think he’s just a tad overrated around here. The same people that praise him now, are the same people that wanted to buy him a plane ticket out of town. lol

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vava74,

True on your points but do you feel that this Hawks team is not that far away with lesser talent as far as competition just as well as those 80’s teams were not that far away from contending?

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Marvin in the startin 5 = another year down the toilet.

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brigadierjerry,

Bringing Adelman would allow us to know what this group is really worth.

Having LD as the guy at the elm – as Woody, with different but equally glaring shortcomings – is like having a child at the elm of a 747 with no autopilot.

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Three team trade:

Hawks get: Demarr Derozan and Chris Kaman

Toronto gets: Josh Smith

Clippers get: Jose Calderon and Marvin Williams

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Mystikal.

Rapid typing or cut and paste?

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I read the article the Hawks have ELITE TALENT…..
We just need a coach who knows how to use that talent.

I think the Hawks are ELITE and I think we will see proof of that next year. LD and Sund had an EPIPHANY about this team and our trying to correct it….WE ARE SOFT AND WE HAVE NO BENCH!!!

They realized we are the 2ND most talented team in the EAST but we don’t have enough toughness in our core or our bench. They are making a TRUE effort to change that with the players they are trying to bring in. They have addressed our perimeter defense with Bibby and Jamal leaving and Kirk and Teagues arrival. They drafted a shot blocker and will probably sign another in free agency.

Look for the Hawks to go after players like: Josh McRoberts, Deshawn Stevenson, Pryzbilla and Jeff foster.

I recognize the fact that the Hawks went to game 6 of the semis and LD made some rookie coaching mistakes(Like not playing Zaza and Wilkins more and Jamal less), but he looks like he is correcting those mistakes…. GO HAWKS

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I started reading the article about the Hawks looking for BLUE COLLAR PLAYERS and I had to stop because I got upset at what was being attributed to LDrew concerning his efforts to get the team to be more consistent and rugged defensively. How can he continue blaming the players for his dogmatic insistence on playing his 2 DEF liabilities during the times with DEF was needed?

I guess in his mind it was their fault for being unable to consistently cover their man as well as Bibby’s and Jamal’s. Against the Magic and Bulls, we saw how much of a difference having a DEF minded starting PG made on this team. It’s extremely difficult for any HC to get his players to buy into his idea of going all out on DEF, when he insists on burdening them by starting and/or playing 2 of the NBA’s worst perimeter defenders major mins.

Whether both Teague and Hinrich start or not, we will no longer have any total DEF liabilities manning our perimeter DEF.

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A yr ago we managed to win 53gms with a different HC, but with the same starting lineup that started this season off. We also had the NBA’s 40th ranked PG as far as overall OFF production. That means we won 53 gms with a PG that lacked speed, quickness, athleticism, penetrating ability, OFF versatility, not to mention he played absolutely no DEF.

It also means Bibby was not only the NBA’s worst starting PG, there were 8 backup PG’s who were more productive than he was. As a 3pt shooter, JTeague isn’t as good as Bibby. But as a PG and basketball player, he’s head and shoulders better. Actually, the same can be said for Hinrich, except he’s in the same ball park with Bibby as a 3pt shooter.

I hope LDrew doesn’t do the same thing with Benson that he did with Teague, and that’s use his lack of weight as an excuse to bury him on the bench. I remember how Isiah Thomas got literally run out of town for drafting a smallish PG named Damien Staudemire, and then drafting a rail thin 6′11″ 220lb center name Marcus Camby.

From all indications, Benson’s overall OFF appears to be better than Camby’s as a rookie, and he appears to be quicker, faster and more athletic.

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brigadierjerry & others:

80’s -v- 00’s;
in my discertation, this AM,
I hoped to make a clear distinction.
I reckon not.

That team (80’s) had:
*Balance…..oughts do not
*Size……….nope
*Defense…..nada
*Toughness.No Way In Heck
*owner………T>ASG [(- X 8] + 1 = addition by subtraction
*Fratello…….hind-sight, he’s even better, should’a kept ‘im.
Chemistry….this team does not have what that team had.
*** Bottom Line ***
“A Winning Culture”

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* I have no idea how the smiley face got on there !
** I told yawl I couldn’t do arithmatic.
*** It beats the heck out’a what my alg. teacher,
used to put on my papers…..”F”…..
then why in the world she would write “U” after…,
I cannot tell you. I could not determine if she mean’t
“Unable to Understand”
or if she had been matriculated at Furman.

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Grandad,

Obviously a long way to go as of right now how do you rank the top 8 teams in the Eastern Conference?

I would love for Benson to get 8 minutes a night

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BRIGADIERJERRY-Your guess is as good as mine. With LDrew, it’s not a matter of if he’ll use him or not, because we all know he won’t if he refuses to learn from the mistake he made by continue Woodson’s stupid approach towards Teague. However, if he’s smarter than Woodson, and heeds the message being sent to him by Sund and the ASG, he will.

And by the way, that message is, you will no longer hold the team back by continuing your OFF 1st at all cost approach over DEF. We’ll no longer sign the veteran players you want us to surround you with, like EThomas, JSmith and DWilkins, only to have them be all but ignored. Either attempt to develop and utilize the young talent we’re investing in our look else where for a job.

With EThomas, DWilkins, JCrawford, MBibby, and HArmstrong not coming back, Sund and the ASG have decided to go with youth, potential and development. In other words, they’ve decided to go in the direction originally intended under former GM BKnight. As a result of catering to the desires of our 2 HC’s MWoodson, we ended up loading up on unproductive veterans rather than developing our young talent.

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Ken S,

One of the things I didnt like about LD last year is he seemed to blame the players almost everytime. “They didnt execute, they didnt defend, they took too many jumpers” etc.

Very rarely did he own up to not having a good game plan, or not putting the players in a position to succeed etc.

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Not yet BJ. I got this line from another blog…I have been trying to locate it myself Sir..If I find it, will definitely pass it on…

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O’Brien,

“One of the things I didnt like about LD last year is he seemed to blame the players almost everytime. “They didnt execute, they didnt defend, they took too many jumpers” etc.

Very rarely did he own up to not having a good game plan, or not putting the players in a position to succeed etc.”

I agree O’Brien. I also was disappointed in how he sold Josh out in the playoffs. All year he said that Josh should shoot that open jumpshot as long as it’s in the flow of the offense, then in the playoffs when the heat came down on Josh, he turned on him and said that he has been trying to get Josh in the paint all year, but he somehow ends up on the perimeter. That is why Josh was confused as to what a good shot was. LD needs to mean what he says, and say what he means. Same thing with Teague. He said how much confidence he had in him, and promised him more playing time this year, and then refused to play the kid significant minutes until he was forced to in the playoffs.

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Josh Smith is the only one with any sort of defense. Kirk is the next Bibby if we dont get him some help.

Horford has a career high of 3.9 Defensive Wins. 38yo Jason Kidd just did that.
Brad Miller 2x All Star? remember him? yeah 0 titles.

Trade Al Horford we are not the Phoenix Suns we actually need free throws or 3s and defense from the 4 spot.

Get Motiejunas + Hill I beg of you. We could win 52 games and become top 8 defensively with Thabeet, Hill and Motiejunas. Please

Horford plays at the same pace of a suns type player. He doesn’t get to the line/

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“Shawn Marion 14.3% If only Shawn Marion would learn how to Box out!
I was talking about Shawn Marion in his prime, as I clearly stated .”

Shawn Marion was 230.

“BTW, Thabeet is the worst lottery pick since Darko Milicic. Wait, he’s worse than Darko”

rookie years
Thabeet 11% WS/48 11% usg
Kobe Bryant 8% 25% usage
Dikembe 8%

And [Al Horford] sucks monkey nuts.

0.103 Rookie Season
0.109 Rookie Season
:::::::::

If you don’t have a superstar on defense you might as well go for defense and scoring at the 1,4,5.

Horford is statistically BRAD MILLER. What has he ever won?

1. Dwight Howard-ORL 7.7
2. Kevin Garnett-BOS 5.6
3. LeBron James-MIA 5.3
4. Luol Deng-CHI 5.2
5. Andrew Bogut-MIL 5.1
6. Paul Pierce-BOS 5.1
7. Rajon Rondo-BOS 4.8
8. Derrick Rose-CHI 4.8
9. Pau Gasol-LAL 4.7
10. Dwyane Wade-MIA 4.7
11. Josh Smith-ATL 4.5
12. Chris Paul-NOH 4.4

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Thabeet stat dude….I need help. Why shoud I trade for Hasheem Thabeet, who makes roughly $5M per year, when I could likely sign a similar-sized, similar-aged guy like Alexis Ajinca as a minimum free agent?

I’m serious. Do some comparisons on the two players for me. I’m curious about Ajinca.

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Barry Lavine?

I googled everywhere and this story about a billionaire named Barry Lavine buying the Hawks reported in the Cherokee Tribune?

Is total BS!
_______________

There was no match for any Barry Lavine as a billionaire.
There is a Barry Lavine who owns a software co. In Portland, OR and, reports annual income of $86K with 1 employee (himself).
____________________

The Cherokee Tribune is a one-horse town newspaper rag located in Canton, Ga. In the middle of a cow pasture.

Anyways ….

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Grandad and I have been asking for Alexis Ajinca for 2 years. No he’s not an All Star, but he seems to be a nice project. He and Ian Mahinmi seemed to have skills. Ian got a shot to impress in the finals. Alexis hopefully will get his shot in the next few years.

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Mary B, I dare you talk about Canton Ga. I ws born and raised there. lol. It might be a “one-horse town”, but they came and found my boy Chris Singleton in one of those pastures. Haha. Do your thing kinfolk. Btw, you’d be suprised if you really knew anything about Canton. No cow pastures there. Not anymore at least. lol.

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“Horford is statistically BRAD MILLER. What has he ever won?”

Yeah, and by THAT logic, let’s not go get Dwight Howard since he too has never won a championship.

BTW, Two collegiate championships is as much or more than anyone else in the NBA. And please remind us again just what Thabeet has won, since that is now our measurement.

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@Dept. Of Unintended Irony lets be like Miami and trade Zaza for Dwight!

Dwight is only half of a player on offense. Going after Dwight , you think he’s that naive he’d resign with Atlanta just because Josh is here?

Offense: Jeff Teague+Thabeet = Rajon Rondo + Perkins
Thabeet’s a cohesive end point on a play. A screener a roller and a dunker. If he’s not dunking right under the basket dont give it to him.

Ajinca for 1 million will lose you 4 more games than Kwame Brown if you start him for 26 minutes per game.

You guys REALLY think Dwight is impressed with Horford and Collins? I visit other sites and other teams are more obsessed with Josh than Al Horford.

How do you build a team around small ball when one big man is a center in a power forwards body and the other cant stretch the floor?

You cant trade Joe and get a good center. You trade Smith and you fall to top 20 defensively.

Hawks are at 105 points allowed per 100 and 3 points away from contending. Horford gives you nothing in the playoffs and if you had to win a slow deliberate Halfcourt game or go to hell there’s no coach in the world anyone would take Josh Smith Horford, Collins and Pachulia to score 20 points.

Hasheem, Hill, Josh Smith, Motiejunas (better Boris Diaw) can play defense and score with Teague at a playoff rate (under 110) dribble and draw fouls

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