Atlanta Hawks: Camp candidates (Update: Full roster)
The Hawks are among the teams squeezing in a minicamp for draft picks and “street” free agents before the pending lockout. They haven’t released the full roster of names because they want to make sure the players invited show up but the following guys are expected to attend in addition to second-round draft pick Keith Benson:
- Joe Alexander (6-8, F), the 2008 lottery pick by the Bucks who didn’t have his rookie contract extended and later was traded to Chicago. The Hornets waived him last November and he ended up with Texas in the D-League.
- Qyntel Woods (6-8, G/F) is the 2002 first-round pick by Portland who last played in the league for the Knicks in 2005-06. He most recently played for the Polish club Asseco Prokom.
- Marcus Landry (6-7, F), the Wisconsin product who had three brief NBA stints in 2009-10. He played for Reno last season.
- Donald Sloan (6-3, G) is a Texas A&M product who played last season with Reno of the D-League.
- Vernon Goodridge (6-9,F) was the fifth pick in the 2010 D-League draft. He played for Maine and Springfield.
Update:The Hawks released the full roster today. In addition to the players above, it includes the following free agents:
- Zach Graham (6-6, G), the Peachtree Ridge High product.
- Demonte Harper (6-4, G), whose name sounds painfully familiar.
- Jeremy Hazell (6-5, G) of Seton Hall.
- Dontell Jefferson (6-4, G), a five-year vet of the D-League.
- Ivan Johnson (6-8, F), who has played 94 games in the D-League.
- David Lighty (6-5, G), who was ranked No. 35 among 2011 prospects by DraftExpress.com.
- Demetri McCamey, who was the No.50-ranked 2011 prospect by DraftExpress.com.
- Eniel Polynice (6-5, G), who played at Seton Hall last season after transferring from Ole Miss.
- Matt Rogers (6-11, F), who played last season for Texas in the D-League.
- Omar Samhan (6-11, C), the St. Mary’s product who played for Zagaris in the Euroleague last season.
- Damian Saunders (6-7, F), who was ranked No. 69 among 2011 prospects by DraftExpress.com.
- Malcolm Thomas (6-9, F), who was ranked No. 60 among 2011 prospects by DraftExpress.com.
- Brad Wanamaker, who was ranked No. 41 among 2011 prospects by DraftExpress.com.
CBA rules don’t allow players under contract to participate in workouts before July 1 so Pape Sy and Magnum Rolle won’t be at the camp.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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218 comments Add your comment
decriz
June 27th, 2011
11:46 am
Hiring Rick Adelman will pay for itself.
That’s the kind of investment he is.
He is not a cost. He is an investment with real and palpable returns.
Rick Adelman will give you a whole new team, and upgraded team with the SAME PERSONNEL.
Guys will play better with him. The team will play better with him at the helm. It’s that simple.
When a Rick Adelman becomes available, you don’t sit on the fence and say, “We’ll see…” or “Let’s give our guy a chance, let him finish his contract..” That’s BS.
When Rick Adelman becomes available, you become DECISIVE and hire the guy. Get him into the organization. Give him the reigns.
Have the balls. Make the move.
The hiring will pay for itself and more.
That’s the bottomline right? To make more.
And the best way for that to happen right now, is not to get “new” players or stars or roleplayers…
The best way to make more money for this organization is to get a top-notch coach who is unbelievably available right now.
To the owners: Grow the brains and the balls to make this hiring move. It’s so obvious. It will pay for itself.
On another note:
I’m excited about Kito Benson coming over. I can already imagine a “no-fly zone” block party for Smoove and Kito. Man, I dare you to drive in our lane! Yeah! I just hope he gets groomed properly this time and not wait for circumstances (e.g. injuries) to push Benson into relevance.
SteveW
June 27th, 2011
11:47 am
Dave Pendegraft has shown me he knows talent.
Teague at #19 – I like
Jordan Crawford at #27 – I like
Sy in the 50’s – I like
Benson at #48 – It remains to be seen, but he’s doing the right things. 7th ranked Senior according to Draftexpress. Not bad picking #48.
Rolle – I like. His reviews are impressing me more and more.
This list of FA invitees I like. I would like to see Gary Flowers and Greg Smith on there, but I can’t complain about the rest.
No wonder Pendegraft is being interviewed to be a GM by other teams. He looks like he knows talent.
KevinM
June 27th, 2011
11:52 am
Josh or Al this year….we don’t move forward with both on this roster.
MC, has Sund said anything about Wilkens and his status? If so, can we just pencil him in ahead of Marvin? We have seen the best of Marvin, so anything over 20 mpg shows this team has a huge weakness. I don’t see Marvin taking on the JC1 role.
Also, let us know how Joe Alexander looks…that’s an interesting option should he be able to play the 3. David Lighty might have some offensive game.
Fact is, none of these guys are going to be in the regular rotation, but can they produce in small spurts? I would think these spurts would have to be on the defensive end. Can we secure these guys to come to camp and then have ownership of them to develop if needed in the D-League Utah team?
I sure wish we could generate a Joe Johnson rumor..in fact, if Joe was under consideration by management that he would need to be moved, what package makes us better with Joe leaving his SG spot? We would have to get a guard in return, even if it was a young shooting guard. Stephen Jackson does make some sense as a cheaper option.
Is it me or will it take a couple of moves this offseason to make us a contender? Moving Josh puts Al in his natural position and we will have dependencies from the C position. We move Joe and we have issues giving someone else that many minutes.
hawksfancents95
June 27th, 2011
11:52 am
PG-teague/hinrich
SG-johnson/sy
SF-smith/williams/wilkins
PF-horford/rolle
C-pachulia/benson/collins
id like to see mcCamey sign with us as our 3rd PG option. i think we could use a FA PF to backup Horford, idk if rolle is quite backup material yet. also how would y’all feel about trading marvin williams for travis outlaw? they both didnt live to their contracts and they both have a few more years left(i think travis has 1 year more than marv) the change of scenery might benefit both and mayb NJ could give us a future 2nd for the trade. i hope we go 15 to start the season because we would have a great roster and pickins in mid/late season are slim.
PG-teague/hinrich/mccamey
SG-johnson/sy/FA signee-moon/lighty
SF-smith/outlaw/wilkens
PF-horford/FA signee-mcroberts/wilcox/rolle
C-pachulia/benson/collins
we will claim our spot back as fourth in the east behind Mia, Bos, Chi in 2011-2012
2nd round exit game 7 loss my prediction*/ does al know if he plays PF he wont make the allstar team? josh smith will make the all star team with a over 50% fg percentage
ILL-Logical
June 27th, 2011
11:53 am
MC, help me to understand something. A player who is a 2 time ALL Star and 3rd Team ALL Pro at Center is asking for and receiving consideration for a position change that A) doesn’t involve a position of weakness for the team like PG or SFand B) has not been demonstrated over time to make the team more effective on the floor.
What is the rationale for saying that it it is the player’s “natural position”? Is the player’s comfort level more important than the Team’s success or are there other issues involved that have not been brought to light?
SteveW
June 27th, 2011
11:53 am
Whoever said sign Aaron Gray, I co-sign that. He’s about the best you can afford for the vet. min. at C in this years class.
I’ like to see us take a shot at Alex Ajinca also.
But I think we are the step below vet. min. guys this season.
We are in undrafted free agent, 2nd round pick, and D League territory. The cost is about half of the vet. min. guys.
SteveW
June 27th, 2011
11:56 am
“I’” should be “I’d” in my last post
JoJo the Godfather
June 27th, 2011
11:58 am
How did Samhan look last year? Forgot about him. I also like Lighty and Malcolm Thomas.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2011
12:00 pm
KenS, sorry but Clyde has a point. How much do you remember seeing Al in the LANE during the Chicago series? Rather on offense or defense, he always seemed to be on the elbow until after a shot goes up. So he really mainly only got long rebounds. So he wasn’t BATTLING for positioning often during that series.
Also you say he’s second in blocks, but if you take away the blocks Al gets on a handful of point guards, he really doesn’t have many blocks. On offense, Al doesn’t battle. And on defense Al doesn’t battle. Multiple times we saw Josh block or altar 2-3 shots in one sequence under the goal ALONE during the Chicago series. When the last time we saw Al have a stance like that under the goal? When the last time Al drew a charge? If you can’t block shots, and can’t draw a charge, you may as well be a SF.
I’m so tired of people acting as if its cool to criticize Josh for EVERYTHING he does. If Josh shot 75% from the field, we’d have someone talk about the 25% that he missed. But when we have the audacity to say precious (overrated) Al needs to step up, or played like a girl during the playoffs, then its blasphemous.
Truth be told, in the last 3 seasons, Josh has been the best player in the playoffs for the Hawks (and this year he was on a bad knee).
Big Ray, please do not use the excuse that Al is an all star or All NBA. Because Al is listed as a center, and theres no other player there who is even respectable now. Lopez and Bogut both have regressed in the last two years, and Yao Ming is for ever hurt, so he has no choice. At the forward slot, he’s possibly the 9th best FORWARD in the east (remember the allstar isn’t for sf/pf, its for forwards collective). And if Stoudamire was listed as a C more, than he wouldn’t even be considered.
Horford is soft, and has been that way since he injured TJ Ford on the freak play. Every since that game he doesn’t seem to go and make a wild, all out play much (except for the second half of the Chicago game during the regular season).
SteveW
June 27th, 2011
12:00 pm
I believe 1 or 2 of the McCamey, Lighty, Wanamaker (or another G) will make the roster this season.
And an Alexander or a Malcolm Thomas may as well, if we carry 15 players.
Lighty could possibly turn into Kyle Korver.
Again, I like our young direction. You could make an argument vets are the way to go to get to the next level. But maybe these young guys hunger and desire will push our vets a little, I don’t know.
But we have a very bad Coach for younger players, unless he changes an awful lot.
Slimjr
June 27th, 2011
12:01 pm
“MC, help me to understand something. A player who is a 2 time ALL Star and 3rd Team ALL Pro at Center is asking for and receiving consideration for a position change that A) doesn’t involve a position of weakness for the team like PG or SFand B) has not been demonstrated over time to make the team more effective on the floor.
What is the rationale for saying that it it is the player’s “natural position”? Is the player’s comfort level more important than the Team’s success or are there other issues involved that have not been brought to light?”
Wheres the Logic???? All NBA AL??? Jettison the core Scottie!! Make it so…..
SteveW
June 27th, 2011
12:09 pm
When your just a Hawks fan, and try to be brutally objective and try to point out each players strength’s and weakness’s, it becomes very obvious that Josh has alot of guys who will overlook most of his faults, and attack other players and bloggers to keep the focus off of Josh.
Josh is many of our blogger’s favorite player, so when people just state the obvious, they are attacked as being anti-Josh.
Being truthful about the situation is really the best option. Acknowledge Josh’s weakness’s, and don’t try to magnify other players faults to protect Josh.
He’s a cool dude – no need for protection. We all know he’s enormously talented. And we all know he can be a head case at times. And we all know that if he harness’s his talent, he’ll be an All Star.
Slimjr
June 27th, 2011
12:12 pm
“KenS, sorry but Clyde has a point. How much do you remember seeing Al in the LANE during the Chicago series? Rather on offense or defense, he always seemed to be on the elbow until after a shot goes up. So he really mainly only got long rebounds. So he wasn’t BATTLING for positioning often during that series.
Also you say he’s second in blocks, but if you take away the blocks Al gets on a handful of point guards, he really doesn’t have many blocks. On offense, Al doesn’t battle. And on defense Al doesn’t battle. Multiple times we saw Josh block or altar 2-3 shots in one sequence under the goal ALONE during the Chicago series. When the last time we saw Al have a stance like that under the goal? When the last time Al drew a charge? If you can’t block shots, and can’t draw a charge, you may as well be a SF.
I’m so tired of people acting as if its cool to criticize Josh for EVERYTHING he does. If Josh shot 75% from the field, we’d have someone talk about the 25% that he missed. But when we have the audacity to say precious (overrated) Al needs to step up, or played like a girl during the playoffs, then its blasphemous.
Truth be told, in the last 3 seasons, Josh has been the best player in the playoffs for the Hawks (and this year he was on a bad knee).
Big Ray, please do not use the excuse that Al is an all star or All NBA. Because Al is listed as a center, and theres no other player there who is even respectable now. Lopez and Bogut both have regressed in the last two years, and Yao Ming is for ever hurt, so he has no choice. At the forward slot, he’s possibly the 9th best FORWARD in the east (remember the allstar isn’t for sf/pf, its for forwards collective). And if Stoudamire was listed as a C more, than he wouldn’t even be considered.
Horford is soft, and has been that way since he injured TJ Ford on the freak play. Every since that game he doesn’t seem to go and make a wild, all out play much (except for the second half of the Chicago game during the regular season).”
SAY IT @RA’MON!! SAY IT RA’MON & DONT BE SORRY CAUSE THIS GUY IS OVERRATED!!!!!
ALL NBA AL IS ONE OF THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYERS IN THE GAME TODAY!!!
ONE OF EM SHOULD HAVE BEEN TRADED,PREFERABLY ALL NBA FOR THE #2 PICK WHO IS LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF ALLSTAR-TITO JR OFFENSIVELY WITH A POST UP GAME, MID RANGE JUMPER ON THE MOVE AND SHOT 56.8% FROM 333333333333333333333333~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KevinM
June 27th, 2011
12:15 pm
“But we have a very bad Coach for younger players, unless he changes an awful lot.” SteveW
Steve, you can’t expect this to happen. Drew is as arrogant and confident in his ways and his predecessor. He is more like Woody than not like him. Why do you think both existed for 7 years? Drew basically is an extension of Woody. He isn’t changing now.
And for anyone who has slotted Teague over Hindrich, don’t get your hopes up. Hindrich isn’t starting only if he is injured. Drew has shown all his cards already. There is no mystery left in his decision making. There’s a reason he might be the lowest paid coach in the league.
I gotta think 90% of the coaches in this league get more out of this team than Drew would.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2011
12:16 pm
I’m definitely a fan of Lighty out of that group. I was a fan of drafting him. Now the Hawks may have a win/win situation. before the injury Lighty was a low lottery pick. He’s just gaining his athleticism back with the explosiveness. He can at least give the minimum things that Chills gave.
Slimjr
June 27th, 2011
12:17 pm
LARRY= 40-45 WINS…..6 SEED???
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2011
12:18 pm
SteveW, if you substitute the name Al for Josh in your last post, you’re 100% correct.
Rod from College Park
June 27th, 2011
12:22 pm
Anybody defending Al Horford defensively in the playoffs, really can’t be watching the games. I truly have never seen a center who allows so many layups by point guards as Al has in the playoffs. Derrick Rose, Jameer Nelson and Brandon Jennings have literally attacked Al at the glass over the last two years in the playoffs, and I seriously can not remember one time where Al was succesful in stopping them. It’s like he takes the wrong angle everytime. I don’t remember him putting any of the guys on their backs one time either. For those who keep harping on Al’s rebounding in the playoffs, Josh averaged 1 less rebound while mostly playing the small forward position in the playoffs, which nost of the time had him on the perimeter guarding Deng, and Turk. Al being an All Star is one of the reasons why more should be expected. He should be producing more than the never an All Star Josh. Sorry, but that is just not the case.
Slimjr
June 27th, 2011
12:28 pm
“When your just a Hawks fan, and try to be brutally objective and try to point out each players strength’s and weakness’s, it becomes very obvious that ALL NBA AL has alot of guys who will overlook most of his faults, and attack other players and bloggers to keep the focus off of ALLSTAR-TITO JR.
ALL NBA AL is many of our blogger’s favorite player, so when people just state the obvious, they are attacked as being anti-ALLSTAR-TITO JR.
Being truthful about the situation is really the best option. Acknowledge ALL NBA AL’s weakness’s, and don’t try to magnify other players faults to protect ALLSTAR-TITO JR.
He’s a cool dude – no need for protection. We all know he’s enormously talented. And we all know he can be a head case at times. And we all know that if he harness’s his talent(FIND SOME HANDLES AND A POST GAME), he’ll be AN REAL All Star.”
sort of like this Ra’mon?? lol (editing is tough) lol
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2011
12:29 pm
Slim, that’s a lot better.
Grandad
June 27th, 2011
12:34 pm
I am very pleased to hear about the additions of:
Wannamaker & Samham.
Wannamaker is a tough nut, while Samham has good size,
and is a true low post.
[I remember alot of you fellows last year wanting to draft O.S.]
As for Lighty, I think I would just as soon bring back Mario West.
(nothing against DL / MW is still fairly young but has much more exp)
On Joe Alexander = upgrade over Josh Powell.
If he would re-invent himself as a defensive stopper;
he would earn alot of money in the league.
(I should be his agent) – [some of these kids just don't get it]
On Aaron Gray:
Big Guy…I’ve always liked him…Pitt guys are tough & hard nosed.
Stats are very good…per 40 min adjusted.
[15.5 rebs per 40 adj.] also [57 % shooting percentage]
I still think ( and hope for) we should make a run for Ajinca.
Bring in as many 7 foot plussers as we can find;
hopefully we find one who can defend the rim,
or at the very least Rebound.
How sweet thinking about a diamond who could do both.
Rod from College Park
June 27th, 2011
12:40 pm
“SteveW, if you substitute the name Al for Josh in your last post, you’re 100% correct.”
PREACH!!!!!!!!!
Josh is bashed more that any other player on the Hawks team. Horford has always gotten a pass until this year, when some of the more astute bloggers on this blog noticed how his game has fallen off. The facts can not be argued. Horford has been MIA in the playoffs the last two years. This year he rebounded well, but his offensive game was non-existent, and he was well below his season averages. Teams took away his offense without double teaming him, and just crowded him and allowed him to drive, which he can’t do. Point guards have attacked him relentlessly at the rim over the last two years in the playoffs with great success. Josh’s post season numbers are pretty much the same in the playoffs over the past two seasons as they have been during the regular season. Al’s are not. No way around that. One guy, has done his job in the playoffs, the other has not. One guy is an All Star, the other is not. The all star has not shown up in the playoffs, and the guy who is not an all star has. Period.
Slimjr
June 27th, 2011
12:49 pm
““SteveW, if you substitute the name Al for Josh in your last post, you’re 100% correct.”
PREACH!!!!!!!!!
Josh is bashed more that any other player on the Hawks team. Horford has always gotten a pass until this year, when some of the more astute bloggers on this blog noticed how his game has fallen off. The facts can not be argued. Horford has been MIA in the playoffs the last two years. This year he rebounded well, but his offensive game was non-existent, and he was well below his season averages. Teams took away his offense without double teaming him, and just crowded him and allowed him to drive, which he can’t do. Point guards have attacked him relentlessly at the rim over the last two years in the playoffs with great success. Josh’s post season numbers are pretty much the same in the playoffs over the past two seasons as they have been during the regular season. Al’s are not. No way around that. One guy, has done his job in the playoffs, the other has not. One guy is an All Star, the other is not. The all star has not shown up in the playoffs, and the guy who is not an all star has. Period.”
Jettison the core Scottie. We must accelerate to the ECF! It will take more fire power…
Aye Captain!!
Some of these guys(Allstar-Tito jr fanatics) have a 2 by 4 stuck in their eyes… They’ll never see the light with all their IQ’s…..Sad…..
Rod from College Park
June 27th, 2011
12:56 pm
“League Coach’s gave Al 3 votes for 1st team All Defense. And 1 vote for 2nd team.
As much as I like you guys, I’m going to take the opinion of the Head Coach’s who watch game film for hours, and actually play their teams against these guys, and see them from courtside, over any blogger here’s opinion.”
Yeah, but last year Josh was second in voting to the defensive player of the year behind Dwight Horward, when he was the starting POWER FORWARD, and many on this blog still say the he is only a good weakside defender.
drmaryb (*_*)
June 27th, 2011
12:57 pm
The O’Brien Trophy!
“It’s not about defending Al. Its about stating facts. The fact is, Al received votes for All NBA defense, and he received the same amount of votes as Josh.
So why would he receive votes if he was a “liability on defense down low like Bibby was on the perimeter.”?
It is your opinion that Al is not very good on defense. But it is also your opinion that Sean Williams should be playing in the NBA.
For what its worth, I do think Al needs to work on his overall game, but he is not the only one with room for improvement, and he is not the only reason why the Hawks lost.
The entire team has issues (Ownership, Management, Coaches and players).” -O’Brien-
_____________________
“Mamma! There goes that man!” -Mark Jackson-
Here is another fine example of O’Brien displaying his superior intellect in repitoire-sp re: BB IQ – to demonstrate his points of contention by using high level communication skills: I find, logical, reasonable, unemotional and stealth techniques to be very stimulating, intellectually.
It is these array of skills on this blog from countless others as well that has made be more knowledgeable about basketball. I have reached expert status when I converse with lay people outside of the blog now.
__________________
So, a big Shout-Out to O’Brien as I’ve had my own paradigm shifts within my “World View” as it relates to the NBA and, it’s talent/performance levels!
________________
O’Brien! This is just way too much Good – Stuff!”
Abandoned Hawk
June 27th, 2011
12:57 pm
Enter your comments here
Abandoned Hawk
June 27th, 2011
12:58 pm
MC,
What is going on with the Hawks being sold?
cp
June 27th, 2011
1:04 pm
@KevinM I think they got rid of the Utah Flash team. I read about it somewhere so the Hawks have to find another D-league affiliate.
I wouldn’t be shocked if at least two of the guys invited to camp make the team. I like Malcolm Thomas and Lighty.. Alexander was a reach that year he came out. Dude was just too raw of a basketball player. The D league might have helped him. I wonder if they will have footage of the camp like they did a few years ago. Might be a lot like a few years ago when Gardner, West, and Hunter all made the roster. We will probably see a few of these guys this up coming season.
Dukester
June 27th, 2011
1:05 pm
The NBA should force ASG to sell this franchise. First off they hire Sund because they know any other GM wouldnt want a holding pattern job until they can sell this team in 3 years or so. They hire Sund. Second they tell Sund dont worry about your job just hire a coach that can manage the team. We dont need a high powered coach that has experience winning. We need a baby sitter like you. Also Sund if you bring in a real coach you will probably have power struggle issues.
Ok lets keep the core no crazy moves just resign everybody we have keep it at 45-50 wins and hope the best for the playoffs. Sign unknown foreign players, journeymen, and lets see if we can keep this organization together until we find a sucker to pay us off. I mean we got sued for breaching David Mcdavid purchase so what we had to pay 25 million. When we sell the team we will make a 20% return on our money. We booted out one of the original owners who may have really wanted to run this franchise they it was intended. But for us this just a business investment.
JoJo the Godfather
June 27th, 2011
1:06 pm
I don’t see why everyone feels it has to be Josh or Al. Both are on reasonable salaries, and a new CBA could result in Josh playing for less on his next contract. Keep them both. They both have flaws & strengths, but their strengths far outweigh their flaws.
Al plays solid defense against most post players (until you get to the size of Howard, Shaq, Bynum or Yao). Al is outstanding at blocking out and securing defensive rebounds (which can keep him from leaving his man to provide help defense (maybe trusting his teammate’s rotations to cover the man he’s leaving is a culprit, as well as depth/foul trouble)). Al has one of the best mid-range games in the league (but is limited & mechanical in the post). Al is a capable offensive rebounder (but doesn’t play in a system that calls for it because of poor transition defense and no big-man depth if he gets in foul trouble). Al is a solid passer & can handle the ball in the open court.
Josh plays solid post defense against most 3’s & 4’s (but struggles to close out on shooters). Josh is an extremely athletic rebounder that can get off the floor quickly (but does not like to block out on the defensive end). Josh has a developing post-up game (but can fall in love with his jumper, which is below avg). Same comments as Al regarding offensive rebounding, passing, and ball handling.
Most teams would love to have this kind of talent, and we’re trying to get rid of it.
I think both of these players can be improved with coaching & trust, along with their natural development in the offseason(s). Does Smith feel like he has to sag off his man on defense because he doesn’t trust his teammates to stay in front of their man and/or for another player to make the proper rotation? Does Al’s lack of aggression on defense come from him not trusting his bench to pick him up if he has to leave with foul trouble? Does Josh feel like he has to hit those jumpers in order to make the all-star team and validate his position as a team captain? Does Al not look for his jumper at times because his teammates are missing theirs?
drmaryb (*_*)
June 27th, 2011
1:10 pm
Fact!
“The fact is, Al received votes for All NBA defense, and he received the same amount of votes as Josh. ” -O’Brien-
_______________________
So OB, with this being a fact, why would The Hawks want to trade either one of those two talents? I mean, shouldn’t they be integrated by floor positioning to maximize them both and just add to that?
Here’s my point: Chuck Daly (RIP) is gone and Thibbedeau is forever unavailable to us. So – Do we have the right defensive coach/tactician in here? If not, who should we be looking for to organize and optimize the talent that we do have? IDK, is Adelman that type of coach? Is there a rookie coach out there that we can find?
In lieu of recycling proven coaches, can we find some new blood within our price range? Or an assistant coach who deserves a chance?
Or will our veteran even players respect someone not proven?
Rufus1
June 27th, 2011
1:14 pm
I like the players the Hawks have brought in….I Love Malcom Thomas, Omar Samhan and David Lighty. I the fact they are bringing in effort guys.
I Think Malcom Thomas = Taj Gidson… I hope he makes the team.
Grandad
June 27th, 2011
1:15 pm
Slimjr
I have never attacked Josh to protect Al.
Also I’ve never called Josh names the way some do with Al:
*some worse than others = Diaper Al
*as opposed to All-Star Al = derogatively used
Now I have been critical of JJ Maxx
while using the previous unflattering sobriquet,
but not to justify the failings of another,
nor point out stong suits of my favorites.
I tire of the Josh v. Al debate.
If it must persist, why then discredit a teammate,
of the player you wish to embellish.
*(assuming we are all Hawk fans)
Healthy debate / criticism / I understand and relish.
Petty bickering and name-calling…..c’mon.
*^* slim *^*
I’m not pickin’ on you – I’m talking about the whole body of work.
*** I’m not above fustigation -&- shilly shallying myself ***
@ G-dad /// I herefore consider mineself censured !
ryan
June 27th, 2011
1:16 pm
This is news to me Rick Adelman going to replace Larry Drew after he went into the 2nd round of playoffs last year .
SteveW
June 27th, 2011
1:19 pm
Actually, Al received 3 1st team All NBA Defense votes, and 1 second place vote
Josh received 1 1st team vote and 4 second team votes.
But that equals the same number of points, 7 for each.
drmaryb (*_*)
June 27th, 2011
1:21 pm
* Or, will our veteran players even respect ….?
SteveW
June 27th, 2011
1:22 pm
Ra’mon and SlimJr – Very funny! But I stick by my original statements, that post belongs to Josh, not Al.
tony
June 27th, 2011
1:25 pm
I like Jeremy Hazell (6-5, G), Demetri McCamey(PG) and •Omar Samhan (6-11, C).
Demetri McCamey is a very good facilitator but an average defender. Omar Samhan is a terrific scorer and he did a nice job against DeMarcus Cousins in the 2010 summer league game.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2011
1:25 pm
The main guy out is Joe Johnson. But who would make a deal for Joe Johnson? If GSW would take Monta Ellis and Curry for Joe, than that is something to consider (a lot to consider actually). I may would be willing to trade Joe for Landry Fields and Billups expiring contract.
SteveW
June 27th, 2011
1:33 pm
As we have been over 14 quintillion times on this blog, the All Star team is not the 12 best players from each conference, it is the 2 or 3 best at each position.
So almost every year, there are players that are left off the All Star team that are much better than players than players that make the All Star team.
It’s just that there is a glut of talent at some positions in the League right now, like PG and PF, and not much at other positions, like Center.
So All Star’s are not expected to be better than non All Star’s necessarily.
And pay reflects as much.
Josh made 11.600,000 million this season. All Star Al made 5.444,000 million.
So Josh made over twice as much money, shouldn’t he be twice as good?
Next season Josh will make 12.4 m. Al 12 m.
The season after that, Josh will make 13.2 m. Al 12 m.
We should expect more from those we are paying more, or else those who criticize JJ for his Max pay have no beef whatsoever.
Forget All Star games. That’s a position by position thing. You should get what you pay for. So Josh should be producing more than Al.
Slimjr
June 27th, 2011
1:34 pm
Grandad your awesome!
My message is directed @ a couple of bloggers who know who they are……….Full of Pride and their IQ’s rammed up their azz……lol
SteveW
June 27th, 2011
1:35 pm
“than players than players” from the last post should read “players than players” Oops, sorry
Slimjr
June 27th, 2011
1:35 pm
Josh is twice the defender???? Wow….
Grandad
June 27th, 2011
1:38 pm
Mary Ellen
Getting a coach in our price range ?
LD is about as good as it gets.
Sorry.
We were shoppin’ at “Big Lots”
[similar to one of your amusing analogies]
We would have to go to Nordstum to get Adelman.
{{ I had to ask what a Nordstum was / thought he was a Viking }}
Mike Budenholzer is the next hard ass – asst Coach / SA Spurs.
He could be the next ” Thibs “.
Ray
June 27th, 2011
1:40 pm
Give Joe to Orlando after this season we’ll glady take Howard and if they want give us Arenas gladly take on his contract just to get Howard.
Grandad
June 27th, 2011
1:48 pm
Best bet on moving Joe:
To the Bulls…in concert with the departure of Boozer;
either to us or in a 3 way of some sort.
SteveW
June 27th, 2011
2:07 pm
Slim – It would be cool if he was! Your looking at Rodman on ‘roids if so…
KevinM
June 27th, 2011
2:18 pm
Here’s how I look at a top center? A guy who has a complete game, offensively and defensively. So, what do we know about Al as a defender? He gets us rebounds, he used position to get those rebounds, yet what do we hear from Daddy Horford? Al doesn’t want to play center, wah wah! Al wants to play power forward. He doesn’t want to bang with other centers. This is all a crock! Gain some weight Al, and tough it out! You were brought here to be the center, yet you have your own agenda.
Al at PF and Josh at SF doesn’t make us better. It weakens us severely on the inside. The reason being, Al doesn’t buy into the Josh/Al combo.
Why can’t they work together like Elvin Hayes & Wes Unseld…2 guys who had talent, but simply played harder and made themselves better. You have 2 HOFs who simply willed themselves to great success.
There is no reason why Josh and Al can’t work together except for the fact that to me if looks like Al doesn’t want to play rough and tough.
I gotta wonder what the issue is here? Al and Josh could be so good, yet you don’t see Al wanting to be a center.
Al as 3rd team All-NBA….I don’t see it. He doesn’t defend the best post player and defers to journeymen. So far, he has gotten away with it.
I have always thought Josh and Joe don’t go well together. I said that about Marvin and Josh years ago before Marvin simply quit working on his game. Now there’s no problem worrying whether Josh and Marvin complement each other.
Is Josh the issue? I dunno, but move one of them and see if we improve. We don’t jell like we should have, yet Drew/Sund want to juggle the lineup and give us journeymen centers (4 of them, soon to be 5 if Benson can get a shot) and let Josh face the basket….what a disaster against good teams. Looks like fool’s gold to me.
I gotta feeling we are looking at a team that will have few changes and we will have to deal with Josh/Al/enteryourjourneymanhere backline.
Sund isn’t going to do anything risky so he can keep his job going forward.
I understand why so many want this team to be moved as well even though we know they aren’t going anywhere. Because even if they aren’t relocating, they still aren’t going anywhere with this backline.
And I like the new perimeter look unless Sund/Drew throw a dumb decision or 2 in there.
Maybe all NBA owners won’t give us anything to worry about for at least a year! They are their own worse enemy.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 27th, 2011
2:26 pm
“With the fans, it’s a popularity contest. With the coaches, it’s not.”
Why not? You don’t think Smoove’s history of clashing with his coach doesn’t weigh into how he’s perceived by other coaches? Coaches are people too… flawed people who are not always going to make decisions based solely on objective criteria.
“I don’t see why everyone feels it has to be Josh or Al. Both are on reasonable salaries, and a new CBA could result in Josh playing for less on his next contract. Keep them both. They both have flaws & strengths, but their strengths far outweigh their flaws.”
Co-sign. I hate this Al vs. Smoove debate, and I seriously hope the lockout gets over quickly so that we have something better to talk about around here.
Al, like Joe, is a good on-ball defender and not so good at help defense and off the ball defense. Smoove is an elite help defender but doesn’t close out on shooters as well as Al and has problems guarding certain types of players one on one that Al handles better. Yet another reason why Smoove and Al complement each other a lot better than people assume.
The problem on this team is neither one of them. The problem is a front office that won’t acquire complementary pieces to them, a coach that won’t hold them accountable, and a prevailing mindset that Joe has to be the offensive focus.
sam'l
June 27th, 2011
2:26 pm
Good God! Trade em both just so I don’t have to read any more…….
Where’d the sale go anyway?