Atlanta Hawks: Second-round sleepers
The reality is that the Hawks face long odds of drafting a player who ends up being a solid bench player, much less a difference-maker, if they stay at No. 48.
Of course that doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
“We get guys that go undrafted and become starters,” said Ryan Blake, the NBA’s co-director or scouting. “[J.J.] Barea, Wes Matthews, Landry Fields–it happens a lot. There is a different philosophy in the second round. You know, maybe a guy can come in and be that shooter. You never know what is going to happen.
“Regardless of what you get, you want to give them the opportunity to make that team. Plus, I think there will be some surprises of guys left going into the second round that might fall into their lap. The old international pick can always be a good thing, too, like Ginobili.”
Blake identified some “under the radar guys” that might fit what the Hawks are looking for:
Vernon Macklin
Diante Garrett
Andrew Goudelock
Ben Hansbrough
Nolan Smith
Josh Harrellson
Brad Wanamaker
Demetri McCamey
Isaiah Thomas
Malcolm Thomas
Iman Shumpert
DeAndre Liggins
Casey Mitchell
E’twaun Moore
Blake said these guys are potential “surprises to be gobbled up if they slip to the second round.”
Jon Leuer
JaJuan Johnson
Charles Jenkins
Un-Smoove sailings?
Adrian Wojnarowski weighed in with the latest Smoove trade speculation. Others have since jumped into the fray.
It’s no secret that Josh is more frustrated than ever with what he perceives to be unfair criticism of his game by media, fans, and even L.D..
Josh’s supporters have long argued that he catches more flak for missing shots than any of his teammates. It’s a fair point, but their pleadings don’t usually acknowledge that it’s not about Josh missing shots as much as it is about him taking more shots that he (historically) hasn’t made. J.J. had an awful season shooting the ball (and took a lot of heat for it) but it’s not as if he has a track record of missing the shots he was taking.
Josh’s supporters counter that because he played more small forward in L.D.’s motion offense he got the ball on the perimeter more by design. L.D. maintained that he called plays for Josh in the post only to see him drift back outside. That’s always hard to figure from an outside’s perspective, but I’d say a better defense of Josh is that L.D. seemingly didn’t say much about the jump shots until they stopped falling.
It’s true the Hawks have gauged trade interest in Smoove, just like they did at the deadline. It makes sense because he’s probably their best chance to get a real player in return (though remember Josh has a trade kicker that’s now valued at about $4 million). None of this means that a deal is imminent or even probable.
The Hawks keep downplaying Smoove’s unhappiness, and he hasn’t asked them for a trade. He’s long been a favorite of ownership, too. I just don’t see the Hawks dumping Smoove in a weak trade just because he feels he’s taking too much blame. He’s too valuable for that.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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247 comments Add your comment
PMC
June 23rd, 2011
10:11 am
Atlanta is a town that won’t pay to watch you unless you’re exciting or you’re shiny and new.
They aren’t filling that arena during the regular seaosn without some kind of exciting new or athletic player with some star power.
drmaryb (*_*)
June 23rd, 2011
10:17 am
In other words …
If trading Josh makes you better? Just do it! Don’t blink.
welikebaseball2
June 23rd, 2011
10:19 am
In terms of the talks about what we’ll do with the 2nd round pick…uh…seriously? We haven’t gotten productive players with the majority of our FIRST round picks &, all of a sudden, we think management has the competency to get a productive player with a SECOND round pick?
drmaryb (*_*)
June 23rd, 2011
10:43 am
Digestibles!
Norty – Nort – Cyde! How’s my baby boy?
Are you digesting all this “good stuff?” Man, your comments, stats & facts … Are so great – Who needs a gall bladder?
Are you recovering and adjusting to life without all the wings, fries and mac & cheeses? I know it’s hard, but life is too short to live on bread alone. So, pick your spots, cut back on the fun foods – but don’t delete all the fun in life!
My luck is: I can do everything right, step off the curb and get hit by a bus! Life like basketball is funny! The calamity would be to have no fun at all. Besides, an occasional stiff brandy or glass of nice red wine does cut the cholesterol in half.
George Burns like to be 100 years old, when asked – How did he do it? He replied, “a cigar every day and a nice scotch & milk every night.”
Word – Up!
__________________
Norty! The Hawks are who we thought they were, right now – we need to upgrade the talent on this roster at some key positions. We need useful and “plug -n- play” bench players in addition to Center and SF issues.
In essence, we need 5 to 7 ballers at various levels. 2 starters and 5 role/bench players, at the very least.
This team should look remarkably different going forward. You feel me?
drmaryb (*_*)
June 23rd, 2011
10:48 am
* George Burns lived to be like 100 years old … (B-berry auto-speller is like the bloginator) … Only, it puts words in your mouth! LOL!
Worldwide Clyde
June 23rd, 2011
10:55 am
Everybody talking about trading Smith but won’t talk about trading Horford. The only thing Horford brings to the table is a mid-range jumper and a little rebounding. He plays no kind of defense what so ever and starts crying if he has to play center.
FIRE SUND
drmaryb (*_*)
June 23rd, 2011
10:57 am
BTW!
I would not be against bringing Jamal back! He was a weapon off the bench for the Hawks. The problem is: he was NOT used right, under Drew. Drew put him in bad positions relentlessly.
Jamal is instant offense and should never be played at PG or when we needed defensive stops. However, he did have one 5 steals game and close to one 10 assist game. An abberation at best, but not his staple.
Pay Jamal his fair market value and use him properly. Oh yeah! And pay some luxury tax – that’s why they call it a LUXURY!
How much fun can you expect to have on a – 5 day 4 night cruise with hotel and all meals included for $99?
UPGRADE – if you want more “Good Stuff!”
drmaryb (*_*)
June 23rd, 2011
11:03 am
The 1’s and 2’s!
Worldwide Clyde is in the house! Where is your side-kick?
Grandmaster JeJe?
How are we gonna’ spin these Draft Day Tunes without our DJ/MC?
Come on fellas … Let’s Get this Draft Party started! Riiight?
________________
I know it’s hard to get pumped when you’re not in the lottery and looking at #48 – hugh? -smh-
Ray
June 23rd, 2011
11:07 am
We need another type of SG Jamal and Joe are one in the same using ISO to create their shots.
We lack at SF and C right now from what can be seen and honestly we lack in those positions as well. As it stands only four people probably know their positions.
Until we get a Center in here that’s a real upgrade over JC honestly I’m beginning to believe that Zaza may be the answer at the C I say we need to have a lineup of Teague, Joe, Smith, Horford, Zaza for a few times.
Worldwide Clyde
June 23rd, 2011
11:16 am
Jeje on vacation. I think he said he was going down to Rio.
Kris Humphries > Horford
MsDee
June 23rd, 2011
11:16 am
Hey, has anyone considered that SG Casey Mitchell from WVU? He is 6′5″, 215lbs..he reminds me of a better version of Eddie House..could be the replacement of Jamal Crawford..chk out his youtude highlights and tell me what ya think!!
drmaryb (*_*)
June 23rd, 2011
11:17 am
Ray of Light!
“Until we get a Center in here that’s a real upgrade over JC honestly I’m beginning to believe that Zaza may be the answer at the C I say we need to have a lineup of Teague, Joe, Smith, Horford, Zaza for a few times.”
- ray -
__________________
I’ll sign off on this notion. More “good stuff”.
MsDee
June 23rd, 2011
11:18 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MT6oXh-k0Y Casey Mitchell
QB/PG
June 23rd, 2011
11:21 am
No way the HAWKS improve by moving JOSH in the EAST. The second round and free agent guys to get are Georgians Justin Brownlee (TIFTON) St. John’s who will be another JJ. Casey Mitchell (Savannah) West Viginia lights out shooter and CJ Leslie. All will be steals trust me.
Worldwide Clyde
June 23rd, 2011
11:21 am
Serge Ibaka – 198 blocks
Al Horford – 80
FIRE LD
MsDee
June 23rd, 2011
11:23 am
AND he’s from Savannah Ga..Another hometown baller..believe he is definitely a sleeper in the draft!
Newbie
June 23rd, 2011
11:29 am
@MsDee
I am form WV and follow the Mountianeers. You are right about Mitchell’s talent but he has problems with authority. He has been kick of the team multiple time the last two years. He also does not play defense that well either.
MsDee
June 23rd, 2011
11:48 am
@Newbie,
Thx for the update but looks like I was right on point..he would be a replacement of Jamal (no defense) Crawford. You definitely want a player who could play defense but I still think we could use a shooter like him coming off the bench. The defense lineup should be Teague, Kirk, Joe, Josh, & AL..reserves are Casey Mitchell to replace Jamal (6th-man), Damien Wilkins(hopefully we will retain him..cant find defense like him anymore, (someone/ANYONE to replace Marvin), Zaza, Jason Collins(dont want to let him go just yet)
Hoops
June 23rd, 2011
12:20 pm
I can’t believe that the Hawks and Magic are considering a trade with in their division, but stranger bed fellows have happened! I guess I would trade Josh Smith and Marvin Williams for J. Nelson, Hedo, and Anderson. It works on the trade machine:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=63n9zbr
That would give the Hawks this line up with no surprises:
1-Nelson, Teague
2-JJ, Hindrick Pape
3-Hedo, Wilkins, Rolle
4-Horford, Anderson
5-Zaza, Collins
2nd round draft pick (Keith Benson if available)
KevinM
June 23rd, 2011
12:31 pm
My last attempt to get to Rick Sund for tonight. Since we are in the glamorous position of pick 48 (how sad is that?), the AJC has run their sleepers package, according to Ryan Blake……that is a good source IMO……here are the 2 guys I shoot for at 48, once again…
DeAndre Liggins – comparison: Bruce Bowen…..dead on example! What do you think this team needs more than a hustle guy? Will Drew ruin this kid’s confidence? After all, he did slap Roy Williams for not conversing with him first before demoting son #1 to the bench….by the way, Carolina shot up the polls the moment lil Drew walked.
Josh Harrellson – comparison: Bill Laimbeer. What else needs to be said?
I don’t think there was another sleeper that the AJC promoted that was any better than these 2! Wake up scouting staff and start watching college basketball.
Ha, Iman Shumpert compared to Javaris Crittendon…no way I touch that kid with a guaranteed paycheck…that comparison is not a good one!
My guess is Sund makes no moves because “he doesn’t know what the rules with be” blah blah diatribe he gives to MC.
I will have more ammunition after tonight as I don’t expect Sund to do the right thing for this organization while his bank account continues to grow.
KevinM
June 23rd, 2011
12:37 pm
You know the only way a Magic/Hawks trade works is if these 2 teams merge and combine their efforts.
2 guys, maybe break into the Hawks’ starting lineup: Dwight and maybe Jameer. The rest is Joe/Al/Josh, unless you relegate Al to the bench. Then Andersen or Bass might break in as the SF.
I take on Van Gundy as my head coach, dump Drew, Sund and the ASG. It’s all good then. We have ourselves a title contender!
No way do I rescue Otis Smith by giving them a starter unless it is albatross Joe and that Brinks truck the ASG owes him.
Move Joe, bring back Jamal, and we are still probably a 42-45 win team.
The whining crying ASG should tell Sund to move Joe tonight! Man, these guys look so inept one year later.
Reddjonn68
June 23rd, 2011
12:37 pm
Why are we sitting here thinking we will have Christmas in June!!! Rick Sund & staff have proven they don’t draft very well, even when we have a 1st round pick!!! This entire organizations acts as if it has dementia or is delusional, when it comes to evaluating talent. Hinrich is a good defender but was not worth JC2 & a 1st rounder….not even close….our drafts have become so boring, I just check the paper or TV the next day to see what happened. Until there is real ownership & leadership at the top, the Hawks will continue to take 2 steps back, for every 1 step forward. Just wake me, when it is over.
drmaryb (*_*)
June 23rd, 2011
12:37 pm
Downgrade?
“I guess I would trade Josh Smith and Marvin Williams for J. Nelson, Hedo, and Anderson. It works on the trade machine.” – Hoops -
__________________
But, does it work between the ears? Hoops? Did someone jack your I’d up there? It can happen, hell, it just happened to me last night.
Those three Magic guys were outplayed, undressed and sent home in round 1! What can they do for The Hawks?
Answer: Nothing.
Just because a trade works on the Trade Machine – means very little. It does mean you need to either raise your level of GM-ness or keep your day job. LOL!
ant banks
June 23rd, 2011
12:37 pm
the hawks ain’t gonna do ish with their 2nd round pick any effin’ way. what are the odds that of atlanta’s 1st and 2nd picks, 90% can’t play nba? that’s poor scouting:
1.acie law, salim stoudemire, sheldon williams, royal ivey, solomon jones, jordon crawford. THE SCOUTING DEPT IS MAKIN’ HORRIBLE SUGGESTIONS OR THE COACHES CAN’T EFFIN’ COACH.
Newbie
June 23rd, 2011
12:38 pm
@MsDee
No problem, I don’t think that Casey will be drafted and we can sign him via free agency for the minimum. I am like most individuals on this blog who follow the hawks, Unfortunately I don’t get to see them play as much as I would like to. So with that being said, I rely lot on what I read on the AJC and these blogs. I like our team but hate ownership and think that it is time for a change. I like Josh Smith but think it is time to part ways. If the Houston Rockets are interested in him then I would try to trade Josh,Marvin, and our #48 draft pick for their #14 and #38 draft pick, Jordan Hill, and would consider Thadeet. I would use the picks to draft Nikola Vucevic (7′ 260# Center) and either Chandler Parsons (6-10 221# SF), Kyle Singler (6-9 228# SF), or Malcom Thomas (6-9 223# SF). I would then let JC walk and try to sign AK form the Jazz. The new line up would be as follows:
Starters – JT,JJ,AK,AL,and Vucevic
Bench – Kirk, Sye, one of the drafted SF, Hill, Thabeet with Zaza being intercahnged with both Hill and Thabeet.
This team would play both good defense and offense and we would have a strongher bench. They would also have the peice to create lineups to matchup against anyone in the conference.
What do you think?
TheAntiMe
June 23rd, 2011
12:54 pm
No doubt about it, Josh Smith for Kobe, Andrew Bynum, and Pau Gasol. Come on, Rick Sund, what’s taking you so long?
TheAntiMe
June 23rd, 2011
12:59 pm
Heck, let’s even give Kobe a statue in front of Philips if it will make the deal go down. We all know how big the statue thing is to Kareem.
Spain
June 23rd, 2011
1:16 pm
Mmmm…
Why not…
Josh Smith for Paul Millsap and #12?
Then We trade Al and Zaza for Dwight
Trade Hinrich for Haslem-Miller
Draft a center (Biyombo-Vucevic)
Sign JJ Barea
So we will have:
Teague(1.5M)-JJ(18M)-Marvin(7.5M)-Millsap(7M)-Howard(17M)
Barea(4.5M?)-Miller(6M)-Sy(0.5M)-Haslem(4M)-Biyombo/Vucevic(2M?)
With those 10 players we will pay 68 million in salaries so we also cheap the roster
WITH THIS ROSTER, 2011-2012 NBA CHAMPION
PS: Then trade JJ-Howard for Thabeet and Houston picks XDDDDD
O'Brien
June 23rd, 2011
1:21 pm
Big Ray,
Its ironic how the owners are screaming about losing all this money, but yet they go out and sign guys to these huge deals (JJ, Arenas, Rashard Lewis, Turk etc), and then one or 2 years later, be complaining about how they need to shed payroll.
KevinM
June 23rd, 2011
1:22 pm
Watching the ‘09 draft and hearing the hype about Thabeet….you think Marvin is bad? This guy can’t get minutes in Houston when they don’t have a center. Come on guys, we aren’t growing talent in this organization. They are expected to be able to play and be good despite the coaching staff.
Let’s move on from Thabeet and Oden…they cost too much to waste away on the bench in street clothes.
drmaryb (*_*)
June 23rd, 2011
1:25 pm
Rio De Janero!
Worldwide … So, The Grandmaster is following in your foot steps? Or, is that Costa Rica where you hang out? Anyway, I hope JeJe has fun and returns home safely!
We need to FIRE some people around here – big time!
FIRE ASKG
FIRE SUND
FIRE MARVIN
FIRE EVERYBODY!
We need a winner in this town, we don’t need no losers!
vava74
June 23rd, 2011
1:29 pm
I’ll be very short and blunt:
Trade Diaper Al instead of J-Smoove.
Diaper Al’s stock is higher than J-Smoove’s but his impact in the Hawks’ success (or lack of) is getting less and less by the day.
J-Smoove brought all his best and worst qualities to the playoffs.
Diaper Al only brought his worst since his best are not suited for a game with real men.
KevinM
June 23rd, 2011
1:47 pm
Trade Al to the Kings while he is on a high, and go get DeMarcus Cousins. Those salaries ougt to match up.
KevinM
June 23rd, 2011
1:49 pm
ougt meaning ought, haha….
Sacramento looking for a PG last time I heard…apparently, Westphal and Tyreke don’t have the same mindset?
KevinM
June 23rd, 2011
1:51 pm
vava, I’m with you…you take Josh away, you take away the vibe in Philips…..just slot Josh back inside and all is good.
decriz
June 23rd, 2011
1:51 pm
GREG SMITH
I MUS WRITE
June 23rd, 2011
1:58 pm
Yeah Ms dee i think casey mithch should be on our summer league roster if he doesnt get drafted. he is from my hometown Savannah Ga. He has a really nice game.
I know the number dont work but I would like to trade Josh for Kevin Love.A guy who can actually shoot,has more size and rebounds. We would still need a C though.
KevinM
June 23rd, 2011
2:05 pm
I MUS WRITE….there is no summer league, and there is a shot that there isn’t a season.
And you are correct, we dont’ gain by trading for Kevin Love. Plenty of PFs out there…they’re not in demand, even though Orlando is a team that could use one.
northcyde
June 23rd, 2011
2:11 pm
The main issue with Josh Smith is that we’re going to be going through this 2 years from now anyway . . and unless he falls off a cliff as a player, he’ll command 10+ mill a season.
This has less to do with JJ’s mega deal ( although it definitely doesn’t help one bit ) and more to do with the ASG choosing to extend Horford long term as their big man. Plus Teague will have to be dealt with the same summer that Smith is up. If Teague turns into a player, we won’t be able to sign both guys anyway.
If everybody knows that Horford and Smith playing C and PF isn’t going to get us to that next level, why not make preparations to see if Horford + a legit C . . or Horford + a better PF can be a better mix in the short term.
It would be like if a combo of JJ + Kevin Martin looked great on paper with 2 legit scorers, but wasn’t a good fit for the team. Something would have to be done about that.
Golden St is going through the same thing with Curry + Ellis. 2 great players, but not necessarily the best mix for the team. So something has to be done to fix the mix.
drmaryb (*_*)
June 23rd, 2011
2:15 pm
Remember The Alamo!
vava74! What’s up baby boy? How’s everything in Brazil?
______________
While you’re on the topic of Big-Al? Don’t forget about Coach Drew.
IDK how you feel about his body of work? But, running Jamal out there at PG and for buckets, when what we really needed was defensive stops, was a monumental and ongoing issue. Especially, while Teague was not getting any burn whatsoever!
And, remember the first 13 or so games, when the motion offense was a thing of beauty? WOW! What happened was, for me, as pretty as
Rick “Bones” Barry and all the NBA TV guys were raving about the new look Hawks offense?
I was disgusted to see Big – Al and Josh standing outside of the paint raining jumpers? I said, “The farther my bigs play away from the basket, the smaller they appear!”
I ranted until I got a migraine about The Boss – Al becoming the equivalent of “The Boss Hog” a (Fat White Guy, wearing a white suit, a white cowboy hat and driving a white cadillac with steer horns as the hood ornament)! For those too young to know:
The Dukes of Hazzard was a country-bumpkins TV show that gave
“Red Necks” new life. In other words, The Boss Hog was a damned JOKE! That’s what The Boss Al became to me then and now, when Coach Drew parked his big azz outside of the paint.
Oh yeah! And Josh was in tow. In closing, I blame the Coach for not putting ALL of his assets in their proper schemes, sets and for not running the right plays at the right time!
FIRE DREW!
drmaryb (*_*)
June 23rd, 2011
2:25 pm
* as pretty as
Rick “Bones” Barry and all the NBA TV guys were raving about HOW the new look Hawks offense – WAS? ….
O'Brien
June 23rd, 2011
3:12 pm
northcyde,
IMO, the Hawks will have to choose between Horford and Josh, because Josh plays PF very well (when he plays to his strengths), and Al would prefer to play PF (while he continues to drift further and further out on the perimeter).
And on a team with not enough depth, their $12 mil+ salary can be used in other ways, and the trade would also break up the core.
I would prefer to trade Al, because Josh has a bigger effect on the game (when he plays to his strengths). Now if only LD could convince Josh to stay 15 feet in…
MsDee
June 23rd, 2011
4:18 pm
@Newbie,
Good ideas but I dont like the idea of Josh going to the Rockets..my ONLY trade idea for Josh is for the #2 draft pick..the only 1 that makes sense to me. Cant see why the Timberwolves wouldnt go for that and we get a SF who would allow AL to play PF while the Wolves are getting an already established baller to re-defi their ball club.
Jay Dubu
June 23rd, 2011
6:53 pm
Josh needs to be working with Dirk’s shooting coach, whether he’s a Hawk or not.
He has the skills to play down low. If he were able to develop a mid range game, he’d be that much more valuable.
Jay Dubu
June 23rd, 2011
7:01 pm
Hawks should have gotten Washington’s 2nd round pick as part of Bibby trade.
They were hosed!!!!
Gave away a young player, and the 18th pick in the draft for a player that was a reserve. Kirk is now going to be a reserve for the Hawks, at 9+ mil.
Bad deal!!!
Throwdown40
June 24th, 2011
4:03 pm
If you guys are wishing for a trade of Josh Smith, you are just as nutty as Sund. Josh Smith has more love for the Hawks than any other player in the organization.He has the Hawks logo tatted on his arm. Why trade a guy? Thats only trying to do the things that your overpaid, non-leader Joe Johnson put no interest in doing. Everyone always want to find fault in Josh, when the problem is clearly the Coach and Joe Johnson. When will everyone see that the only thing Josh tried to do was win. And in Drew’s (no) motion offense, you need pure shooters. How he even sold that bull to the Hawks organization, is beyond me. Sund butt needs to be fired for Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams contracts and running this Hawks team farther into the ground.Trading Smith would be a very big MISTAKE. They need to deal with bottom players for now,adding pieces around Horford and Teague. Find a Trade for M.Williams wait two years on J.Johnson’s contract and trade him, Nothing else big needs to happen. Josh Smith is a keeper.
Throwdown40
June 24th, 2011
4:09 pm
Josh Smith for a #2!!!! R U CRAZY?