Atlanta Hawks: Second-round sleepers
The reality is that the Hawks face long odds of drafting a player who ends up being a solid bench player, much less a difference-maker, if they stay at No. 48.
Of course that doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
“We get guys that go undrafted and become starters,” said Ryan Blake, the NBA’s co-director or scouting. “[J.J.] Barea, Wes Matthews, Landry Fields–it happens a lot. There is a different philosophy in the second round. You know, maybe a guy can come in and be that shooter. You never know what is going to happen.
“Regardless of what you get, you want to give them the opportunity to make that team. Plus, I think there will be some surprises of guys left going into the second round that might fall into their lap. The old international pick can always be a good thing, too, like Ginobili.”
Blake identified some “under the radar guys” that might fit what the Hawks are looking for:
Vernon Macklin
Diante Garrett
Andrew Goudelock
Ben Hansbrough
Nolan Smith
Josh Harrellson
Brad Wanamaker
Demetri McCamey
Isaiah Thomas
Malcolm Thomas
Iman Shumpert
DeAndre Liggins
Casey Mitchell
E’twaun Moore
Blake said these guys are potential “surprises to be gobbled up if they slip to the second round.”
Jon Leuer
JaJuan Johnson
Charles Jenkins
Un-Smoove sailings?
Adrian Wojnarowski weighed in with the latest Smoove trade speculation. Others have since jumped into the fray.
It’s no secret that Josh is more frustrated than ever with what he perceives to be unfair criticism of his game by media, fans, and even L.D..
Josh’s supporters have long argued that he catches more flak for missing shots than any of his teammates. It’s a fair point, but their pleadings don’t usually acknowledge that it’s not about Josh missing shots as much as it is about him taking more shots that he (historically) hasn’t made. J.J. had an awful season shooting the ball (and took a lot of heat for it) but it’s not as if he has a track record of missing the shots he was taking.
Josh’s supporters counter that because he played more small forward in L.D.’s motion offense he got the ball on the perimeter more by design. L.D. maintained that he called plays for Josh in the post only to see him drift back outside. That’s always hard to figure from an outside’s perspective, but I’d say a better defense of Josh is that L.D. seemingly didn’t say much about the jump shots until they stopped falling.
It’s true the Hawks have gauged trade interest in Smoove, just like they did at the deadline. It makes sense because he’s probably their best chance to get a real player in return (though remember Josh has a trade kicker that’s now valued at about $4 million). None of this means that a deal is imminent or even probable.
The Hawks keep downplaying Smoove’s unhappiness, and he hasn’t asked them for a trade. He’s long been a favorite of ownership, too. I just don’t see the Hawks dumping Smoove in a weak trade just because he feels he’s taking too much blame. He’s too valuable for that.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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247 comments Add your comment
Grandmaster JeJe
June 22nd, 2011
8:37 pm
LOL @ Hawks Management thinking we’re old enough that we can now add young players to the core.
Compare Dallas’s core with ours
We have 25 year old stiffs like Marvin who still “hasn’t reached his potential”
Ra'mon
June 22nd, 2011
8:45 pm
The best deal HAS to resoundingly be Joe and Al for Dwight and Arenas. Arenas is allowed to play the 2 guard, because you still have Heinrich and Teague to run the point. That defense would be legendary, especially if you bring in a defensive stopper wing to close out the rotation. Not to mention, how many tickets would be sold after a deal like that is made? And I actually think Marvin would be good in that lineup because he would be more aggressive.
jason
June 22nd, 2011
8:45 pm
Draft day tommorrow…. maybe the last time till the cba gets worked out that the hawks can have a opportunity to make “decent” trades.
RealSquawk
June 22nd, 2011
8:58 pm
#Claiming it! Goodbye Joe
TommyP
June 22nd, 2011
8:59 pm
Josh Smith trade talk all over the internet but can’t find anything in the hometown newspaper but the fans bringing it up.
Section 303
June 22nd, 2011
9:01 pm
TommyP, does this surprise you? AJC will be the last to report a trade. We’ll hear about it elsewhere first. No doubt about that.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2011
9:03 pm
Smoove for the #2 and Beasley is not a bad trade, but Derrick Williams is the obvious pick there. I think he can fit in at SF just fine in the NBA — I don’t buy the tweener talk — and Kanter doesn’t strike me as any more of a center than Al. Williams is the one guy in this draft who I think has superstar potential. I would try to flip Beasley for a center after making that trade.
JOSH SMITH FOR 3!
June 22nd, 2011
9:06 pm
If Josh Smith leaves Atlanta, we’ll regret it forever. With a decent coach, he’ll be an All-Star his first year with a new team. Should have gotten Doc Rivers when we had the chance.
RealSquawk
June 22nd, 2011
9:09 pm
Josh Smith for 3! I hope you meant And 1, or three finals mvps, or DOY
Najeh- I don’t think Beaseley can be flipped for a center. well maybe Kaman
Section 303
June 22nd, 2011
9:10 pm
Najeh, I’ve been calling for that trade since May. I truely believe Minny would be game for that deal. Bill Simmons even talked about that potential deal on his podcast yesterday. Draft Williams and dump Marvin off on the side of the road.
Section 303
June 22nd, 2011
9:12 pm
Josh Smith for 3!, no we won’t. If I were a betting man, I would bet you whatever you wanted to bet on that. Josh Smith is Josh Smith. He will always have the same issues. The only reason these national writers/talking heads rave about his potential is that they don’t watch him very often. They get fooled by the dunks and blocks. They don’t see the walking up the floor, whinning, bad shots, bad passes, and pouting at coaches.
ryan
June 22nd, 2011
9:13 pm
If the Hawks are making these deals if the reports are true its sound to me like there clearing cap space and rebuilding this could be a huge mistake .
JOSH SMITH FOR 3!
June 22nd, 2011
9:15 pm
I don’t see him being DOY as long as Dwight lives upon the Earth, but Finals MVP maybe, if they chain him to the paint and replace his brain.
ryan
June 22nd, 2011
9:17 pm
Trading up for the number 2 pick seems like a good idea to get Williams from what i hear he has all tools become an all star i just hope if we trade Josh Smith we do this right .
drmaryb (*_-)
June 22nd, 2011
9:18 pm
When?
“Should have gotten Doc Rivers when we had the chance.”
_______________
And, when exactly did this chance occur?
JOSH SMITH FOR 3!
June 22nd, 2011
9:22 pm
Um, last time he was available. I forget when exactly, but he actually wanted to come here and the Hawks hired someone else.
drmaryb (*_-)
June 22nd, 2011
9:30 pm
They better not trade Josh, that big piece of manly MAN!! But get BIG Dwight here, and it might get steamy who-know-where, ok, ladies?? Oh my God, I’m such a little slutpuppy!!! Go Hawks, all the way DOWNTOWN, right, ladies?? Ooooh, that’s so naughty!
hawksfancents95
June 22nd, 2011
9:31 pm
@najeh 7:15pm post
the only way id trade josh is, josh and joe for dwight and gilbert, i was thinking about that early in the day..funny
@grandmaster jeje 8:34pm post
haha i had a second thought about MC after i watched that video and he said he’d make al the cornerstone of our franchise.
My opinion of our hawks talent from most to least
1. josh smith-plays good man D/excellent help D only guy that gets blocks every night, his offense is overlooked with his passing and IQ, ya he shoots some bad shots but if he doesnt take that shot he knows its gona be a shot by marvin or pass to joe so he can dribble the clock out. if we trade josh we might MIGHT make the playoffs in 11-12
2. joe johnson-has his times when he shows he is the #3 SG behind kobe n dwayne then he reverts back to the more frequent joe and holds the ball to long and takes 20ft faders. i do like joe a lot, and i used to not care he didnt show emotion because thats just how some people are, but im very annoyed by his non-chalant attitude for winning playoff games and not taking the hawks on himself to get us the o’brien. he is a better man defender than he gets credit for as well.
3. Al Horford- i had to debate this between al and jeff but since al has played well for longer i cant base my rank on such a small sample size as the east semis with teague. i loved how al progressed from just a hustle player his first year into a rebounder and pretty good offensive big man. during the regular season he showed he added a mid range shot which was nice. but al does nothing in the paint on offense unless he gets a offensive rebound. i hope this offseason he can work with hakeem olajuwan and take a note on how to work downlow. still a solid player but i think unless his lowpost vastly improved this summer he has peaked, and im not sure he’d be more effective at PF if we do acquire a true C.
4.Jeff Teague- i really like what i saw this last postseason with his speed quickness and finesse around the rim. it is nice to have a pg that doesnt need to take two jump/bounce steps to get going(watch bibby anytime he catches the ball in the backcourt its hilarious) jeff plays pretty good defense as well and he is definitley our best contract. i hope LD realizes what he has and actually gives the keys to teague.
5. Kirk Hinrich- I like kirks game. he is unselfish,always lookin to get good/open shots for teammates and knocks down 3’s and open jumpers. He is a very good defender and will do the little things to help his team win, he doesnt complain or cause drama. kirk is a pure professional.
6. Zaza Pachulia- He is so fun to watch win playoffs start. he gets into with everybody and that usually benefits the hawks more than our opposition. he bangs down low and brings some toughness to a small hawks team. if he can work some on his athletic abilities and low post O this summer he should definitley start barring a big trade for a C.
7. Damien Wilkins- it is kind of sad for me to think our 2nd best bench player averages 3.4 ppg but i KNOW what i see when damien is on the court instead of marvin. he plays gritty D and he is not afraid to guard the other teams best wing player. Since damien is going to be 32 he will start to degress and i hope we have someone who can play 3 by next season whether thru draft or FA.
8. Jason Collins- I dont know how jason is blackballing dwight but i love that he can defend our division foe. He is a great 3rd bigman to have.
9. Marvin Williams-Only guy ive seen show less emotion than joe. My prediction is that in 2013 in his last contract year he plays pretty decent and hits a few big shots in the playoffs and ASG signs him to an 3 year extension and he goes back to normal ghost marvin and probobley a few bloggers on here contemplate the unique humor of the universe
10.Pape Sy- looked pretty fast the few times i got to see him play. hopefully he can step up and log some real minutes next season.
11. Hopefully pick #48 can slide in the 7-9 range but since the hawks management downplay the possibility of finding talent in the late 2nd round im gona fit #48 in slot 11..show some enthusiasim sund&co.
12. Magnum Rolle-lanky, tall, and decently athletic. again if he works this summer should be able to get some spot pt at PF.
less than 24 hrs from the draft…
KevinM
June 22nd, 2011
9:32 pm
Orlando has very little to offer us for Josh. They get a starter and we replace him with? Yeah, not a match there.
So lets’ go with the Minnesota deal and get their #2 and Anthony Randolph for Smoove and Larry Drew…this makes sense in so many ways for us..they get a head coach underappreciated in Atlanta who can get with Tubby Smith and make basketball the game to see in Minnesota.
drmaryb (*_-)
June 22nd, 2011
9:33 pm
When?
“Um, last time he was available. I forget when exactly, but he actually wanted to come here and the Hawks hired someone else.”
___________________
When you figure that out? Please let me know.
O'Brien
June 22nd, 2011
9:34 pm
It was not a bad pick,
Who has seen more of Marvin’s games? MC, or Tom Thibodeau? What about the other GM’s who wont touch Marvin and his contract? Why havent they seen the potential in Marvin to be a #2 option?
After all, dude has been in the league 6 years, so there is plenty of game tape on him. So why is that NONE of the other GM’s want him?
KevinM
June 22nd, 2011
9:35 pm
Let Smoove shoot those ‘arch of St. Louis’ jumpers for someone else and see how far he gets with that. Minny gets an imposing frontline of Love, Josh and Millicic….imposing. We get Williams or Kanter and finally get some balance in our frontline.
O'Brien
June 22nd, 2011
9:38 pm
From yahoo sports;
Minnesota Timberwolves general manager David Kahn has decided to fire coach Kurt Rambis, league sources told Yahoo! Sports..
This is why Minny is Minny. Why wait until the day before the draft to fire your coach?
Najeh,
I like the Joe and Al for Dwight and Arenas. However, I would only make that deal if Howard signs an extension (under the new CBA).
And I would not do Josh for #2 and Beasley. if we get Beasley, then we are stuck with Beasley and Marvin, two underachieving #2 picks, and who knows what the trade market is for either of them.
JOSH SMITH FOR 3!
June 22nd, 2011
9:40 pm
Doc Rivers worked for ABC for a year between coaching Orlando (ending in 2003) and Boston (starting 2004), and the Hawks hired Woodson in 2004. They had a chance to hire him before Boston got him.
KevinM
June 22nd, 2011
9:46 pm
Beasley is Minnesota’s version of Marvin…..he gets 14M the next 2 years and seems to play well early in games, then the weed takes over.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2011
9:46 pm
“if we get Beasley, then we are stuck with Beasley and Marvin, two underachieving #2 picks, and who knows what the trade market is for either of them.”
Marvin has next to no trade value of course, but Beasley is coming off a season where he averaged 19 points per game and he is still on his rookie contract. He is a disappointment compared to the expectations for him coming out of college, but he is still a much, much better player than Marvin and surely has significantly more trade value. The Wolves got him from the Heat for two second rounders, and his stock has increased a lot since then after he had a good season this year. I think the Hawks can flip him for a player who can positively contribute.
ryan
June 22nd, 2011
9:48 pm
The Hawks missed the boat on Rivers and Byron Scott who wanted to coach in Atlanta but ASG took the cheap way out with Woodson same thing with Larry Drew also i do like the Al and JJ deal for Howard and Arenas if they were to agree on the trade .
KevinM
June 22nd, 2011
9:51 pm
OB, someone on a draft show from year’s past said the head coach has very little input on draft day. So firing Rambis really is not a surprise nor a loss for them. They tend to pull the trigger really fast on coaching hires….Dwayne Casey lasted what, less than 2 years?
Only Flip Saunders has had any tenure there. When they make a mistake, they kabosh it fairly quickly. Only Flip made it more than 2 full years in their history…amazing. That tells you the history of Minnesota basketball.
Make a splash on draft day Sund, that is, if you remember how to swim!
JOSH SMITH FOR 3!
June 22nd, 2011
9:52 pm
Thanks, I thought it went down that way, although I forgot about Byron Scott (and had another shot to get him before we settled for LD). Pretty damn stupid, IMO.
RealSquawk
June 22nd, 2011
9:52 pm
Josh Smith for 3! – You are correct!
KevinM – Beasley is no Marvin. Beasley wants the ball and is willing to defy the system if necessary. Marvin is a team player and wants to stay within the system.
Beasley was destroying Josh Smith in our Heat playoff games.
James on Pharr Rd
June 22nd, 2011
9:53 pm
The only call Sund should take on Josh is when a Big man (4/5), on the block, who can put up at least 10 boards a night and 8+ points consistently. Anything else would have to be dynamic.
In fact, why not get rid of Al Horford instead.
KevinM
June 22nd, 2011
9:55 pm
I see the Lakers offered Lamar Odom to Minnesota….anyone want to see Odom for Josh? 6MOY? Add Shannon Brown?
I know, I know, it would break my rule for being willing to trade with the Lakers and Celtics….it would end up bad on our end I’m sure.
Section 303
June 22nd, 2011
9:58 pm
RealSquawk, Beasley was destorying Josh Smith? No he wasn’t.
JOSH SMITH FOR 3!
June 22nd, 2011
9:58 pm
Yes, feels good being right (although being right about this is somehow making me mad). Where would we be right now if Doc Rivers had been coach all this time?
I think I just blew my own mind.
KevinM
June 22nd, 2011
10:00 pm
RealSquawk, a couple of Beasly attributes from hoopshype:
Bad defensively, mediocre rebounder considering his size and athleticism…Focused enough?
Marvin may not be bad, but he isn’t in there in the 4th quarter either, like Beasley….I remember early buckets by Beasley, then he fades into oblivion.
Not a very good comparison, but 2 #2’s that underachieve, like OB said.
James on Pharr Rd
June 22nd, 2011
10:00 pm
“I think the Hawks can flip him for a player who can positively contribute….”
Beasley will be up for a similar contract to what Marvin is stuck with, or should I say we are stuck with. No way Hosea to that short term or long term exchange. Josh’s contract is actually a steal in my opinion for the next 3-4 years-he makes just about tolerable numbers, and yet still has potential on the court to play above the expectations for a 17th pick . That makes his trade worth way better than Beasley. It also doesn’t address immediate concerns on the court for the team. As for the no. 2 pick, the jury for me is still out-I would trade that pick as well because I do not like any player in the entire draft-not to mean no one will do great, but based on what I see now, I am not impressed.
KevinM
June 22nd, 2011
10:02 pm
Let Beasley continue to play with their other #2 underachiever, Milicic…easy to see why that team won all of 17 games last year.
Like I said earlier, the only things I would truly want from either Minny or Cleveland is their draft slots.
RealSquawk
June 22nd, 2011
10:03 pm
Section 303 yeah he was – Josh could not defend at all. He shook josh left, he shook josh right, he drove right by the guy for layups and he was pulling up. They went at him for about 3 plays in a row and then pulled back after Beasley missed a shot. I am not saying that Beasley was stopping Josh from scoring however.
KevinM
June 22nd, 2011
10:04 pm
from hoopshype: “Mavs sources openly scoff at a Josh Smith rumor, strongly deny a Roddy B rumor”
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2011
10:06 pm
Odom is just an older and less athletic version of Smoove. Even that 3 point percentage will come back down to Earth on a less loaded team than the Lakers.
E43
June 22nd, 2011
10:09 pm
I just hope the hawks find a way to force pape sy into some playing time. I have no hope whatsoever that whoever they draft will play 40 games. So im officially part of the “play pape sy” group
Wabe
June 22nd, 2011
10:12 pm
Should we even care about a 2nd round sleeper? This dumb organization had Jeff Teague rotting away on the bench for 2 seasons, and then when forced to play him, he proves coach and company to be stupid.
So, do I have any faith that
a) the hawks have the ability to draft a quality player in the 2nd round, because really, it’s the hawks
b) 2nd rounders will ever playing meaningful minutes in a Hawks uniform even if the pick seemed decent
N O P E
Wabe
June 22nd, 2011
10:15 pm
And the Odom for the T’Wolves #2 pick trade is stupid beyond stupid.
Picking at that spot, you wanna come away with a guy that can make your franchise. A potential ‘franchise’ player. They might miss, and maybe even miss as bad as we did with M.Williams, but one things for sure, Lamar Odom isn’t a franchise player.
Coleman Hudson
June 22nd, 2011
10:18 pm
Hawks Get: Joel Przybilla, Tyrus Thomas, Matt Carroll 19th overall pick
Bobcats Get: Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, 2nd round pick (48th overall)
Thoughts?
EmirS.
June 22nd, 2011
10:24 pm
@Coleman Hudson
Awful.
E43
June 22nd, 2011
10:24 pm
I think Beasley is a better fit for the hawks than Marvin because Beasley gets it up… Every single day with and without wade. Marvin takes 2-3 shots today, tomorrow the day after that then makes up for it by defense and getting it up in two games back to back then comes back to earth and does the same cycle again. That being said id rather keep Marvin as a hawk. I just don’t see Beasley changing the hawks fortune a whole lot. Not with josh smiths jumpers creating an angry mob…
Coleman Hudson
June 22nd, 2011
10:28 pm
EmirS.
I could be wrong, but I was thinking Przybilla gives the hawks a center who rebounds, and blocks shots, Thomas could give depth behind Horford, Plus thomas is very athletic and if he puts it together he could be a double-double guy. Carroll gives the hawks a 3 point shooter with good range, and with the 19th overall pick they could look best available. Why don’t you like the trade? just curious
drmaryb (*_-)
June 22nd, 2011
10:29 pm
A Chain of Fools!
“They better not trade Josh, that big piece of manly MAN!! But get BIG Dwight here, and it might get steamy who-know-where, ok, ladies?? Oh my God, I’m such a little slutpuppy!!! Go Hawks, all the way DOWNTOWN, right, ladies?? Ooooh, that’s so naughty!”
- Truth Syurup –
____________________
Time to log off for the evening … TS is jacking my I’d again.
Have Fun! I have better things to do!
- drmaryb -
More BS!
June 22nd, 2011
10:39 pm
Post A Link!
“The Hawks missed the boat on Rivers and Byron Scott who wanted to coach in Atlanta but ASG ” – ryan -
___________________
This is some Bool!!!!!!
EmirS.
June 22nd, 2011
10:43 pm
@Coleman
Joel Przybilla, in my opinion, is a huge risk just in terms injury prone. He’s not a starting center or and adequate back-up and I feel like is over-hyped by numerous members of this blog. I’m not a fan of him as far as an NBA player.
Tyrus Thomas is simple, to quote from you: “Thomas [could] give depth behind Horford, Plus thomas is very athletic and [if] he puts it together he could be a double-double guy.”
The could’s and if’s don’t sit well with me at all. The last thing we need is an “if” guy that’s NOT in the draft.
Matt Carroll is indeed a sniper but I have not seen him play defense, in other words a lesser repilca of Jamal Crawford.
I wouldn’t mind the pick…but thats about it. Your giving up a border-line All-Star that is a high caliber starter in ANY NBA team and in return your getting a overrated 2nd string center, an “if” guy, a low volume three point shooter whose add’s no reasonable depth.